Chat Log: October 1st, 2011

[09:42] SeanS has joined #knownspace
[10:27] Akiraa has joined #knownspace
[11:39] sean has joined #knownspace
[14:19] Fred has joined #knownspace
[14:21] Fred has joined #knownspace
[14:25] Fred has joined #knownspace
[14:27] #knownspace> SeanS: Hi Fred, Bye Fred, Hi Fred.........
[14:47] Jim has joined #knownspace
[14:48] #knownspace> Jim: The Evil Woman, ELO
[14:50] #knownspace> SeanS: I listened to the first 3 tracks of ELO: Time earlier
[14:58] dmac44 has joined #knownspace
[14:58] #knownspace> SeanS: Was playing with the dog a few minutes ago. Went to run and hide from him and cracked my head into the wall. The wall won.
[14:58] #knownspace> dmac44: hi guys
[14:58] #knownspace> SeanS: hiya
[15:06] #knownspace> dmac44: SeanS: How's your head feeling?
[15:08] #knownspace> SeanS: painful. slight headache and my neck hurts. I got myself good.
[15:09] #knownspace> SeanS: caught it right on the corner
[15:10] #knownspace> SeanS: and on top of that Kentucky is getting their ass royally kicked by LSU
[15:10] #knownspace> dmac44: That's too bad. Beware concussions. I had a good friend a number of years ago die beciase of one.
[15:11] #knownspace> dmac44: LSU is supposed to have a pretty good team this year., I hear.
[15:11] #knownspace> SeanS: they are number 1 this week
[15:11] #knownspace> dmac44: Any topic today?
[15:11] #knownspace> SeanS: not yet
[15:12] #knownspace> Jim: Yes, Oklahoma has not played the kind of talent that LSU has.
[15:12] #knownspace> SeanS: Larry emailed me and said he will be in Vancouver with no computer today.
[15:13] #knownspace> Jim: I thought that if WVU could have beaten LSU, WVU would have had a chance at a national title.
[15:13] #knownspace> SeanS: UK starting to advance the ball. LSU must of put in the tutors or something
[15:13] #knownspace> dmac44: So Larry will be joining us by seance? :)
[15:13] #knownspace> SeanS: heh
[15:13] #knownspace> Jim: the Tutors?
[15:13] #knownspace> SeanS: or the water boys
[15:14] #knownspace> SeanS: study help
[15:14] #knownspace> dmac44: I'm hoping Stanford will take the national title this year.
[15:16] #knownspace> Jim: Yes, Oliver Luck (WVU's athletic director, and former WVU QB) could not get his son Andrew (Stanford's QB) to play for WVU.
[15:16] #knownspace> Jim: no more football
[15:16] #knownspace> dmac44: Luck is really talented.
[15:17] #knownspace> dmac44: Jim: Do you have a topic in mind?
[15:17] #knownspace> Jim: no
[15:18] #knownspace> dmac44: Has anyone read Outies? Any opinions (mine's on record on Amazon)?
[15:18] #knownspace> Jim: can you show the URL for your review
[15:18] #knownspace> SeanS: had an article on reproduction in space and the effect on development in a zero-g enviroment
[15:18] #knownspace> SeanS: I just finished the moon maze game
[15:19] #knownspace> dmac44:
[15:19] #knownspace> dmac44: I think that should take you there.
[15:20] #knownspace> dmac44: The Moon Maze was okay. I didn't see much of Larry's style in it though.
[15:20] #knownspace> SeanS: oops... on fetal development
[15:20] #knownspace> SeanS: it had a whole lot of Barnes in it.
[15:21] #knownspace> dmac44: SeanS: What did you think of The Moon Maze?
[15:22] #knownspace> SeanS: hmm, it was alright. like I said. it had a lot more Barnes in it than Niven
[15:25] #knownspace> SeanS: but I like Barnes. he was a friend on facebook to facebook changed their format and I deleted my account
[15:29] #knownspace> Jim: Yes, the ultimate protest against Facebook's changes.
[15:30] ronn has joined #knownspace
[15:30] #knownspace> ronn: Hello, all!
[15:32] #knownspace> ronn: Um, testing . . . ?
[15:33] #knownspace> Jim: 123
[15:36] #knownspace> Jim: Did anyone see Haven last night?
[15:37] #knownspace> dmac44: I haven't watched the program. Is it good?
[15:37] #knownspace> Jim: Yes, it is actually a fantasy program that I like.
[15:41] #knownspace> SeanS: Jim, I was already on Google Plus anyway
[15:42] #knownspace> Jim: Yes, I may open a Google+ account soon, but I still have many HS classmates and family on FB.
[15:44] #knownspace> Jim: I like how their many ads for adult services that modify the name Facebook into F***book. It is a pretty neat idea; using social media to find people to have anonymous sex with.
[15:44] #knownspace> ronn: I need a name for an orange-and-white tabby. Any suggestions?
[15:44] #knownspace> Jim: Facebook
[15:45] #knownspace> ronn: Wasn't that essentially the original purpose behind Facebook? (For college students.)
[15:46] #knownspace> Jim: Ronn, that would be somewhat a modification of the meaning of the word, friend.
[15:48] #knownspace> ronn: They said FB was originally for college students to "hook up." To hear some people talk, "hook up" pretty much means ". . . for sex." ;)
[15:49] #knownspace> Jim: How will social media technology change in the future?
[15:50] #knownspace> Jim: According to RedEye's (FNC) Greg Gutfeld, many high class prostitutes use Facebook.
[15:51] #knownspace> ronn: Giving a whole new meaning to "poke <someone> on Facebook . . . "
[15:51] #knownspace> Jim: LOL
[15:54] #knownspace> Jim: Art of the Fugue VI, JSB
[15:55] #knownspace> Jim: I have been told that the following joke dates back to the 9th century.
[15:56] #knownspace> Jim: What hanges from a man's thigh that likes to poke a hole that it has already poked many times before?
[15:56] #knownspace> Jim: A key.
[15:56] #knownspace> dmac44: lol
[16:00] #knownspace> Jim:
[16:01] #knownspace> Jim: Academics have compiled a list of the most ancient gags and the oldest, harking back to 1900BC, is a Sumerian proverb from what is now southern Iraq."Something which has never occurred since time immemorial; a young woman did not fart in her husband's lap," goes the joke.
[16:02] #knownspace> ronn: Either it indeed is all in the timing, or it lost something in the translation . . . :P
[16:03] #knownspace> dmac44: It says something when we can still easily identify with jokes 4,000 years old. It also says something about future cultures in science fiction too.
[16:04] #knownspace> Jim: One Roman jape dating back to the 1st Century BC details the Emperor Augustus touring his realm and coming across a man who bears a striking resemblance to himself.Intrigued, he asks the man: "Was your mother at one time in service at the palace?"The man replies: "No your highness, but my father was."
[16:04] #knownspace> dmac44: lol
[16:06] #knownspace> Jim: The joke about the key dates only back to the 10th century AD.
[16:07] #knownspace> dmac44: A cyborg, a chicken and a Kzin walk into a bar .......
[16:09] #knownspace> Jim: Do Kzin eat chicken? Do Kzin taste like chicken?
[16:10] #knownspace> dmac44: That's all I got. Someone else needs to come up with the punch line.
[16:11] #knownspace> Jim: In Alastair Reynolds Revelation Space series of stories, cyborg modifications were undergone for reasons of personal expression.
[16:12] #knownspace> Jim: What modifications would you do?
[16:12] sean has joined #knownspace
[16:12] #knownspace> ronn: From a comparison of the number of people signed in to those actually posting, and the frequency of posts, I presume everyone else is multitasking at at least two other things, too. Or did I just miss the peak period today? (I signed on after getting back from a run to the store for more cat food to get through the weekend: the new arrival has a very good appetite. And the more I look at...
[16:12] #knownspace> ronn: ...him, the more I am thinking he is still not fully grown.)
[16:12] #knownspace> dmac44: A chicken would be an appetizer for a Kzin (think chicken can of peas :) ). Not sure I'd like to have to find out what a Kzin tastes like.
[16:13] #knownspace> sean: was standing here in the kitchen talking to gf and went 'duh... drag the laptop in here'
[16:13] #knownspace> Jim: Larry, the man of the hour, will not be joining us today. No one, to my knowledge, knows about Ed.
[16:13] #knownspace> sean: I have not heard from Ed
[16:14] #knownspace> dmac44: Where's Lensman today?
[16:16] #knownspace> sean: Dont know. I emailed him the standard chat notice. Fred, Lens, Larry and Ed are all on a notice list. Did not hear back from him.
[16:16] #knownspace> Jim: Can you add me to the chat list?
[16:16] #knownspace> sean: yeppers
[16:17] #knownspace> Jim: thanks
[16:17] #knownspace> ronn: I presume there was a notice on the regular mailing list? (I'm behind so I didn't see it yet.)
[16:17] #knownspace> sean: I email the mailing list and keep the separate notify list cuz I don't like throwing Larry and Ed's addy's out into the ether
[16:18] #knownspace> Jim: Ronn, there is normally one, but I am not a member.
[16:19] #knownspace> sean: I am not currently taking delivery of list mail but can still send to the list
[16:20] #knownspace> Jim: It was a mistake putting the list in the hands of Jonathan Sheen.
[16:22] #knownspace> sean: Actually, I do not know how he got control. I guess like the web site and this server, he stepped up when no one else did but that was before my time
[16:23] #knownspace> Jim: Back to social media technology. In the future, what will people routinely do on sites like FB that they do not do now? Some people have sex in front of a web cam; will more people do that in the future?
[16:23] #knownspace> Jim: Three dimensional web cams that do not need the viewer to wear glasses?
[16:24] #knownspace> sean: Julie wears the hell out of the facebook flash games
[16:24] #knownspace> ronn: In addition to getting the new cat on Thursday, my stepmother got carried off in an ambulance that morning (and I am running over to her house a couple of times a day to check on her cat and pick up the mail), and I was already having a particularly annoying spell of the so-called "chronic bronchitis" which meant it literally hurt to laugh — or cough, or even move if it involved my torso —...
[16:24] #knownspace> ronn: those are my excuses for being behind on mail . . .
[16:25] #knownspace> ronn: How about when it gets to the point where direct interface to the brain is possible?
[16:26] #knownspace> sean: ah, neuromancer tech
[16:26] #knownspace> Jim: Will people quit social media entirely when they get a droud implant?
[16:27] #knownspace> sean: well, if the niven stories portend the droud impact on society... yes
[16:30] #knownspace> sean: or like in brainstorm (movie) experiencing an orgasm over and over from tape.
[16:30] #knownspace> sean: if that comes before the droud
[16:31] #knownspace> dmac44: You need a good firewall in front of the brain.
[16:32] #knownspace> ronn: Hopefully it will fit on a SD card or flash drive rather than requiring 2" video tape . . . ;)
[16:32] #knownspace> sean: dmac44 goes back to neuromancer... how good is the shielding on your 'deck? ;)
[16:32] #knownspace> dmac44: or else God would be a hacker who gives out pleasure or pain.
[16:32] #knownspace> ronn: More discreet, you know . . .
[16:33] #knownspace> sean: yeah ronn... but it was an early 80's movie.
[16:33] #knownspace> ronn: As opposed to the "givers of pain and delight"?
[16:39] #knownspace> Jim: Would people on a 100-year starship have much use for social media?
[16:40] #knownspace> Jim:
[16:40] #knownspace> sean: i saw that that conference was going on
[16:41] #knownspace> sean: good question. In such close confines would it be used or, in an effort to have some physical privacy, over used?
[16:42] #knownspace> Jim: What would the hundreds or thousands of people on a slowship do to occupy their day?
[16:43] #knownspace> Jim: Spotify
[16:45] #knownspace> sean: a lot of astronomy once far enough away from Sol for stars to start showing up.
[16:46] #knownspace> Jim: What stars could be observed on a slowship that could not be observed in solar orbit?
[16:46] #knownspace> sean: I would love to know
[16:47] #knownspace> sean: but until the sun dimmed down a bunch, they would not see shit ;)
[16:48] #knownspace> Jim: Ronn, what is Sean talking about?
[16:48] #knownspace> Jim: McLovin'
[16:52] #knownspace> sean: I would love to know what you could see a couple of light years out from the sun.... Would not expect anything new but the fun thing would be being there.
[16:53] #knownspace> sean: was walking gf downstairs.
[16:56] #knownspace> dmac44: I'm heading out guys. Talk to you all next month.
[17:02] #knownspace> SeanS: Jim added to chat notice list.
[17:09] #knownspace> Fred: am I in???
[17:09] #knownspace> Fred: yay!!!
[17:09] #knownspace> Fred: that only took ... 5 hours
[17:10] #knownspace> Fred: and it says nobody is here but jim and ronn
[17:10] #knownspace> Fred: including me
[17:10] #knownspace> Jim: Fred!
[17:10] #knownspace> SeanS: huh? I saw you in here 2:24
[17:10] #knownspace> Fred: or sean, who I see chat for
[17:10] #knownspace> Fred: jim!
[17:10] #knownspace> Fred: sean, the chat never showed up for me
[17:10] #knownspace> Fred: 'til this moment
[17:10] #knownspace> SeanS: really
[17:10] #knownspace> Fred: the java chat STILL hasn't
[17:10] #knownspace> SeanS: what client?
[17:10] #knownspace> Fred: i'm on lion
[17:10] #knownspace> Fred: new computer
[17:10] #knownspace> Jim: Fred, Larry and Ed are apparently not showing up today.
[17:10] #knownspace> Fred: came in on safari, using the website links
[17:11] #knownspace> Fred: I think the flash side defaulted to showing me STATUS and not KNOWNSPACE
[17:11] #knownspace> SeanS: Fred, the easiest way in, on any flash enabled pc, is just type in a browser
[17:11] #knownspace> Fred: will try that now
[17:12] #knownspace> Fred: the java site still says 'unable to connect'
[17:12] #knownspace> Fred: pc? what's a pc? :D
[17:12] #knownspace> SeanS: I have not tried the java in forever
[17:13] #knownspace> Jim: I am using the java site:
[17:13] #knownspace> Fred: me too
[17:13] #knownspace> Fred: is giving me a 'loading' bar
[17:13] #knownspace> Fred: that's
[17:13] #knownspace> Fred: moving
[17:13] #knownspace> Fred: really
[17:13] #knownspace> Fred: really
[17:13] #knownspace> Fred: s
[17:13] #knownspace> Fred: l
[17:13] #knownspace> Fred: o
[17:13] #knownspace> Fred: w
[17:13] #knownspace> SeanS: Jim, that is actually the eris flash client that loads right off my server.
[17:14] Fred_IRC has joined #knownspace
[17:14] #knownspace> Fred: and it finally loaded :)
[17:14] #knownspace> Jim: I am using Chrome, and I cannot parse
[17:15] #knownspace> Fred: uh oh
[17:15] #knownspace> SeanS: I can only upload so fast. but it should not take more than about 10 seconds to load.
[17:15] #knownspace> Fred: failed
[17:15] #knownspace> Jim: Fred, still using Cox Communications?
[17:15] #knownspace> Fred: no idea jim
[17:15] #knownspace> Fred: I'm at a nursing home
[17:15] #knownspace> Fred: using their wifi
[17:15] #knownspace> SeanS: fred_irc logged in a minute ago
[17:15] #knownspace> Jim: I have had good luck with Frontier DSL.
[17:16] #knownspace> Fred: sean, the chat just gives me 'unknown MODE flag' errors
[17:16] #knownspace> Fred_IRC: oh, there it is
[17:16] #knownspace> Fred_IRC: stupid thing defaulted to status again
[17:16] #knownspace> Fred_IRC: so until you click KNOWNSPACE you get nothing
[17:17] #knownspace> Fred_IRC: yay!
[17:17] #knownspace> Fred_IRC: it is however saying that NOBODY is here
[17:17] #knownspace> Fred: this side now says fred_irc, jim, and ronn are here
[17:17] #knownspace> Fred: but I'm not, and neither is sean
[17:17] #knownspace> SeanS: hmm, I used the eris client from Julie's yesterday and it was fine
[17:18] #knownspace> Fred: Lion is fubar Sean
[17:18] #knownspace> Fred: I specifically bought an older stock macbook to get snow leopard
[17:18] #knownspace> Fred: but the delivered unit was lion preinstalled
[17:18] #knownspace> Fred: and you can't install an older system
[17:18] #knownspace> Fred: firmware issues
[17:19] #knownspace> SeanS: I could bounce the server real quick... see if it is on my end. but everyone would have to log in again
[17:19] #knownspace> Fred: nah
[17:19] #knownspace> Fred: don't kill what little there is
[17:19] #knownspace> Fred: :)
[17:19] #knownspace> Fred: so how's the list these days?
[17:20] #knownspace> Fred: anybody snark reviewing Terra Nova?
[17:20] #knownspace> SeanS: loading the eris client here but it takes forever from inside.
[17:20] #knownspace> SeanS: I have not watched it
[17:20] #knownspace> Fred: it's galacticallly stupid, but goofy fun
[17:22] #knownspace> SeanS: Guess I could pull an ep or 2
[17:22] #knownspace> Fred: well, there's only been one
[17:22] #knownspace> Fred: still time to jump on board!
[17:22] #knownspace> Jim: I watched the entire Haven season that ended last night. The show was pretty good when they avoid major CGI.
[17:22] #knownspace> Fred: I didn't get past the pilot of Haven. Those that did said it got better.
[17:23] #knownspace> Fred: I've been seriously dialing back my TV viewing in favor of my caregiver duties.
[17:23] #knownspace> SeanS: I havent watched that either.
[17:24] #knownspace> Fred: Mom spent the entire month of September in ERs and hospitals and skilled care facilites, bouncing back and forth
[17:24] #knownspace> SeanS: Fred, I am no longer on facebook so you need to start posting on google plus.
[17:24] #knownspace> Fred: a friend was nice enough to loan me her ipad so I had some contact with the outside world
[17:24] #knownspace> Fred: YOU
[17:24] #knownspace> Fred: YOU'RE THE ONE
[17:24] #knownspace> Fred: did you cancel your account?
[17:24] #knownspace> SeanS: yes
[17:24] #knownspace> Fred: I lost several friends from facebook last week
[17:25] #knownspace> Fred: I accounted for all but one
[17:25] #knownspace> SeanS: that would be me... i got pissed and just deleted it... did not post a notice or anything.
[17:25] #knownspace> Fred: I'm on google plus but I never post; nobody I know does either, just tumbleweeds blowing by
[17:25] #knownspace> SeanS: neil and dan post
[17:26] #knownspace> Fred: don't think they're in my circles
[17:26] #knownspace> Jim: I think I will start a Google+ account, but keep the FB account.
[17:26] #knownspace> Fred: my few google plus people that post are just mirroring other site posts
[17:26] #knownspace> SeanS: you are in my circle but i dont know if you have added me to yours
[17:27] #knownspace> Fred: also, google plus doesn't always tell me if somebody posted
[17:27] #knownspace> SeanS: i get emails saying that someone commented on a post i commented on but dont get notified if a friend posts
[17:27] #knownspace> Fred: I don't know my google plus ID. Can't get in from here. :\
[17:28] #knownspace> SeanS: i hear ya
[17:29] #knownspace> SeanS: julie just sent me an email saying 'a tat for you' it was a guys bald spot with a tat of a guy and a push mower.
[17:31] #knownspace> Fred: I only found out a couple days ago that if you know the admin password on a mac you can find out every other password that auto fills
[17:31] #knownspace> Fred: and you have to give repair people your admin password
[17:31] #knownspace> Fred: doh!
[17:31] #knownspace> SeanS: hmm, sounds kind of strange since macOS is basically BSD based.
[17:32] #knownspace> SeanS: ease of use blowing a hole in security i guess
[17:33] #knownspace> SeanS: eris client 2/3 loaded. like i said, it takes forever. server sends it out into the world and then back into the lan.
[17:35] #knownspace> Fred: I read ringworld this month
[17:35] #knownspace> Fred: and ringworld engineers
[17:35] #knownspace> Fred: and ringworld throne
[17:35] #knownspace> SeanS: I just finished the moon maze game this morning
[17:35] #knownspace> Jim: I think you mean reread.
[17:35] #knownspace> Fred: and I'm halfway through ringworld's children
[17:36] #knownspace> Fred: which comes to a shuddering halt the instant wembleth appears
[17:36] #knownspace> Jim: One of these days, I am going to start rereading Dune and the subsequent Frank Herbert novels.
[17:36] #knownspace> SeanS: Dune is great... I read that one every couple of years
[17:37] #knownspace> SeanS: same for me, Fred. RC just doesnt hold me like the others
[17:38] #knownspace> Jim: I never got into Frank Herbert before the Sci-Fi miniserieses
[17:39] #knownspace> SeanS: I was finished Chapter House Dune (book 6) and the next morning read in the paper that Herbert had died.
[17:39] #knownspace> SeanS: delete was
[17:40] #knownspace> Fred: I almost started making notes on the RW sequel contradictions
[17:41] #knownspace> Fred: 'teela was 30 in the first book? wtf??'
[17:41] #knownspace> Fred: but decided without the list as a forum I'd just be shouting into the darkness
[17:41] #knownspace> Jim: I thought that she was 20 in RW.
[17:41] #knownspace> SeanS: to quote Larry... the author has the right to have a better idea
[17:42] #knownspace> SeanS: she was Jim
[17:42] #knownspace> Jim: Clarke's 2001 series was full of contradictions; he said so.
[17:43] #knownspace> SeanS: I did like Clarke's idea that the center of Jupiter is a giant diamond.
[17:43] #knownspace> Jim: Jesus Christ Superstar, by Laibach
[17:43] #knownspace> Fred: Jim, RC says she was 30 in the first book
[17:43] #knownspace> Fred: she was 20 in the first book itself
[17:44] #knownspace> Jim: Why should it matter? Why did Larry increase her age?
[17:44] #knownspace> Fred: to no end I could figure
[17:44] #knownspace> SeanS: ok, how long did it take her to get to the repair center?
[17:44] #knownspace> Fred: except it might matter because she could become a protector 10 years earlier
[17:44] #knownspace> Fred: sean, yeah
[17:45] #knownspace> Fred: turns out that whole story is nonsense though
[17:45] #knownspace> Fred: she became a protector elsewhere and disguised herself as human and snuck into the map of mars and pretended to become a protector again ...
[17:45] #knownspace> Jim: How old does one have to be in order to become a Pak Protector?
[17:45] #knownspace> Fred: and I start to glaze over
[17:45] #knownspace> SeanS: 40ish
[17:45] #knownspace> Fred: 40ish
[17:46] #knownspace> Fred: or what sean said
[17:46] #knownspace> SeanS: or what Fred said
[17:46] #knownspace> Fred: almost word for word
[17:46] #knownspace> Fred: syllable for syllable
[17:46] #knownspace> Fred: letter for letter
[17:46] #knownspace> Fred: alpha numeric for alpha numeric
[17:46] #knownspace> SeanS: bit by bit
[17:47] #knownspace> SeanS: if Fred's mac bits and my linux bits match up that is
[17:47] #knownspace> Fred: Ringworld Throne could be fixed (I still wish Larry would do his director's cut)
[17:47] #knownspace> Fred: Ringworld's Children ... I think has to be thrown away
[17:48] #knownspace> Jim: Maybe, it would be better just to leave the Ringworld series alone.
[17:48] #knownspace> Fred: of course the whole XXX of Worlds blows away anything we thought we knew from any RW book anyway :)
[17:48] #knownspace> SeanS: I can't argue... I have only been able to go more than halfway through Children once
[17:48] #knownspace> Fred: this is only my second time through RC
[17:48] #knownspace> Fred: I *do* love the cover painting though
[17:49] #knownspace> SeanS: The idea that Wu could even become a protector at 20 stops me
[17:50] #knownspace> Fred: the problem with that is
[17:50] #knownspace> Fred: if louis can become a protector at 20
[17:50] #knownspace> Fred: then there's no reason to make teela 30 retroactively
[17:50] #knownspace> Jim: Carlos Wu's autodoc in Nessus's hand was bad enough.
[17:50] #knownspace> Fred: at least that I've found. But I'm paying more attention this time.
[17:51] #knownspace> SeanS: the whole point of tree of life is to allow the breeder stage time to breed and then change.
[17:51] #knownspace> Jim: Listening to Slovenian Eutotrash Pop.
[17:51] #knownspace> SeanS: watching auburn/S. Carolina
[17:52] #knownspace> Fred: the idea that the hindmost could retrofit the autodoc to work on a kzin (much less fit one) and a puppeteer while not being able to duplicate it bothers me too
[17:52] #knownspace> Jim: I had a professor in college say that he interviewed in Auburn Alabama for a job, and it was an oasis of white people surrounded by much poorer blacks.
[17:52] #knownspace> SeanS: oh, Jim, did you see that I added you to the notification list?
[17:53] #knownspace> Jim: Yes, thanks.
[17:53] #knownspace> Fred: thank you again for the notification list sean
[17:53] #knownspace> Fred: for us expatriates
[17:53] #knownspace> SeanS: no worries
[17:53] #knownspace> Fred: I think October snuck up on people
[17:53] #knownspace> Fred: I was sure it was coming up sunday or monday
[17:53] #knownspace> SeanS: thinking about switching over to ubuntu so hopefully I will remember to back up my contact list
[17:54] #knownspace> Jim: SeanS, what are you running now?
[17:54] #knownspace> SeanS: opensuse
[17:55] #knownspace> SeanS: well, heh, ubuntu server on the irc server. ubuntu desktop with gnome 2.whatever on the laptop (loving it) and opensuse on 2 more machines with kde
[17:56] #knownspace> SeanS: then a windows xp print/tv show server and an xp movie server (2TB hard drive on it.)
[17:56] #knownspace> Jim: SeanS, are there Linux versions of Office that can read docx and xlsx files?
[17:57] #knownspace> SeanS: yeah.. libreOffice. (Open Office renamed)
[17:58] #knownspace> Fred: I've got an open office program that's supposed to do docx but it's no better than an emergency option
[17:58] #knownspace> Fred: you 'sort of' get the text
[17:58] #knownspace> SeanS: If you want to run M$ Office, I am sure it will run under wine
[17:59] Lensman has joined #knownspace
[17:59] #knownspace> Fred: people are trying to get me to get K software
[17:59] #knownspace> Fred: office, adobe
[17:59] #knownspace> Fred: LENSMAN!!
[17:59] #knownspace> Fred: so all the outcasts are here
[18:00] #knownspace> Fred: did sean forget to post the notice on the list? :D
[18:00] #knownspace> Lensman: mrfl
[18:00] #knownspace> Lensman: No, I just got up!
[18:00] #knownspace> SeanS: I posted to the list
[18:00] #knownspace> Fred: humor
[18:00] #knownspace> Fred: it is a difficult concept
[18:00] #knownspace> SeanS: ok, Saavik
[18:00] #knownspace> Lensman: Shoulda logged in before I went to bed.
[18:00] #knownspace> Jim: Lensman!
[18:01] #knownspace> Lensman: "All the outcasts" ? How many are there?
[18:01] #knownspace> SeanS: 3.5
[18:01] #knownspace> Fred: heh
[18:01] #knownspace> SeanS: that i know of
[18:01] #knownspace> Lensman: Me, Fred, and... ?
[18:01] #knownspace> Fred: jim
[18:01] #knownspace> Fred: sean is .5
[18:02] #knownspace> Fred: (I assume)
[18:02] #knownspace> SeanS: and me being .5 where I don't take delivery by choice but can still post
[18:02] #knownspace> Lensman: Ah.
[18:02] #knownspace> Fred: a few dozen more and we'll have 'em outnumbered
[18:02] #knownspace> SeanS: pretty much... I have thought about setting up an alternate mailing list for the expatriates.
[18:03] #knownspace> SeanS: Brennan (IRC Server) has plenty of juice left
[18:03] #knownspace> Lensman: So, what did I miss today?
[18:03] #knownspace> Fred: nothing
[18:03] #knownspace> SeanS: everything
[18:03] #knownspace> Fred: general chitter
[18:03] #knownspace> Lensman: Larry didn't show?
[18:03] #knownspace> SeanS: greatest chat of all time
[18:03] #knownspace> Fred: lol
[18:04] #knownspace> Fred: damn it, there's a RW quote
[18:04] #knownspace> SeanS: Larry is in Vancouver without a puter
[18:04] #knownspace> Fred: and I don't have it to pull
[18:04] #knownspace> Jim: Neither Larry nor Ed showed up.
[18:04] #knownspace> Lensman: :(
[18:04] #knownspace> Fred: I bitched about inconsistencies in the RW books which I reread this month
[18:04] #knownspace> Fred: that was about it for on topic
[18:04] #knownspace> Lensman: Ah well, back to bed...
[18:04] #knownspace> Fred: lol
[18:04] #knownspace> Lensman: ;)
[18:04] #knownspace> Fred: where are you?
[18:05] #knownspace> Lensman: Sitting in front of my 'puter, of course...
[18:05] #knownspace> Fred: :P
[18:05] #knownspace> Lensman: :D
[18:05] #knownspace> Lensman: Kansas City, KS
[18:05] #knownspace> Fred: oh, I asked if anybody was snark reviewing Terra Nova yet, but nobody but me watched it
[18:05] #knownspace> Lensman: Depending, of course, on the interpretation of your question...
[18:06] #knownspace> Jim: Fred, there may be a review of Terra Nova on
[18:06] #knownspace> Fred: tanj dammit I forgot all about republiblot
[18:07] #knownspace> Lensman: I watched "Falling Skies", barely good enuff for me to watch, but haven't been watching any other genre shows. Laser Rangers will be doing a marathon showing of first season of "Game of Thrones" next Saturday, but I've not seen but the first episode.
[18:07] #knownspace> Fred: once in awhile carol and I toss a snowball but that's it
[18:07] #knownspace> Fred: yeah, falling skies 'barely good enough' is right
[18:07] #knownspace> Fred: the finale just angered me
[18:08] #knownspace> Jim:
[18:08] #knownspace> SeanS: the last series on tv that interested me apart from who was firefly and I didnt even watch that till a couple years after it was cancelled
[18:08] #knownspace> Fred: we don't see the big battle? they don't use the killer bazooka, but save it for the librarian to use? He freaking hits a flying ship instead of shooting out a leg of the base???
[18:08] #knownspace> Lensman: Are there any genre shows worth watching on today? (I know Fred will say "NO!"... he hates everything!)
[18:08] #knownspace> Fred: don't start
[18:09] #knownspace> Fred: I've spent the last month in hospitals with mom
[18:09] #knownspace> Fred: terra nova is all I've seen
[18:09] #knownspace> Fred: of the new stuff
[18:09] #knownspace> Fred: I'm still enjoying the new Dr. Who
[18:09] #knownspace> Jim: Eureka has not been bad, if you don't like science in your sci-fi.
[18:09] #knownspace> Fred: I quit Torchwood though
[18:09] #knownspace> SeanS: heh
[18:09] #knownspace> SeanS: torchwood sucks
[18:09] #knownspace> Lensman: My favorite shows are "Suits" and "Breaking Bad". Unfortunately I keep missing episodes of the latter.
[18:10] #knownspace> Jim: Lots of people stopped watching Torchwood, since it came to Hollywood.
[18:10] #knownspace> Fred: I loved Eureka but found the incresingly unecesary alternate reality offputting
[18:10] #knownspace> Lensman: I've seen enough of "Eureka" to know it's below my threshold. Just too stupid.
[18:11] #knownspace> Fred: Eureka is in the same universe as Warehouse 13 (and Alphas) but apparenlty it's the original universe Eureka, not the alternat
[18:11] #knownspace> Lensman: My ex-gf turned me on to "Fringe", but I lost interest after awhile. The episodes were too much alike.
[18:11] #knownspace> Fred: getting a headache
[18:11] #knownspace> Jim: One thing that the 100-year starship will require is a pizza oven.
[18:11] #knownspace> SeanS: and a pepperoni plant
[18:11] #knownspace> Fred: Nah. cook 'em all at home and ship 'em in stasis
[18:11] #knownspace> Fred: ob A World Out Of Time
[18:12] #knownspace> Lensman: They'll take one of those new laser pizza ovens to save space, but it will break down in only three years.
[18:12] #knownspace> SeanS: if you can do that with stasis, there would be no reason for a pizza oven
[18:12] #knownspace> Fred: where the Norn had a prime rib in stasis, just took it out to carve a new slice
[18:12] #knownspace> Jim: We need to find a Slaver artifact first.
[18:12] #knownspace> Fred: Terra Nova has lipstick size lasers that will get you out of a jail cell
[18:12] #knownspace> SeanS: just eat hot papa johns before landing
[18:12] #knownspace> Fred: but not guns that will penetrate a dinosaur hide
[18:13] #knownspace> Lensman: This is imperfect stasis. It's like freezing... living things don't survive (except some frogs and bugs).
[18:13] #knownspace> SeanS: like wicked lasers? I want one of those
[18:13] #knownspace> Jim: Asimov's Foundation series had minature pizza ovens powered by portable nuclear energy.
[18:13] #knownspace> Fred: mr fusion?
[18:14] #knownspace> Jim: Fred, no, Asimov's nuclear energy was some form of fission that could be made portable.
[18:14] #knownspace> Fred: on the new sci fi front, people are liking Person of Interest. I haven't sampled it myself yet.
[18:14] #knownspace> SeanS:
[18:15] #knownspace> Fred: hey, cool
[18:15] #knownspace> Fred: links are now clickable
[18:15] #knownspace> Jim: POI is too much like Minority Report.
[18:15] #knownspace> Fred: they weren't on the old system
[18:15] #knownspace> Fred: or selectable
[18:15] #knownspace> Lensman: Hmmm, I see no Google hits for "laser pizza oven". I guess that was just a prototype, not a commercial product. "Nevermind!"
[18:16] #knownspace> SeanS: twas not me. I am a full service IRC server ;)
[18:16] #knownspace> Fred: laser pizza would be a pretty good name for a shop though
[18:16] #knownspace> Fred: all the workers wearing goggles
[18:16] #knownspace> Fred: and lead aprons :D
[18:16] #knownspace> Lensman: I caught just the end of "Person of Interest". Didn't realize it's SF.
[18:16] #knownspace> Jim: Nothing beats wood for a pizza oven; some pizza joints in Italy use old coffins to fire up the ovens.
[18:16] #knownspace> Lensman: Seems to be interesting from what I saw.
[18:16] #knownspace> Fred: fire up the wood with the lasers
[18:17] #knownspace> Lensman: Cooking with wood on a spaceship? Ummmm... that's a pretty big ship, is all I have to say.
[18:17] #knownspace> SeanS: or one hell of an air conditioner
[18:17] #knownspace> Fred: I meant my 'laser pizza' store
[18:18] #knownspace> Jim: Use advanced ag-tech to grow wood in vats from bacteria.
[18:18] #knownspace> SeanS: laser pizza.. pretty narrow cooking spot
[18:18] #knownspace> Fred: a friend of mine just did a spaceship animation that had a long antenna on the ship and people jumped all over him that frequency bandwidths wouldn't call for that
[18:18] #knownspace> Fred: and I'm like 'geez, how the hell do you know what possible technology is in play here?'
[18:19] #knownspace> SeanS: unless it is a spread focus laser which makes no sense
[18:19] #knownspace> Lensman: As I recall, the laser pizza oven had a rack of lasers which "scanned" back and forth quickly.
[18:19] #knownspace> Fred: what if it's the big laser at the tail of the ship that sets off the pellets to make the atomic explosions?
[18:20] #knownspace> SeanS: actually a radio activated detonator makes more sense
[18:20] #knownspace> Jim: Fred, what advantage would there be to using short (or long for that matter) wavelengths to communicate with a ship. The only advantage to short wavelengths would be the additional room for bandwidth, but you don't need to be streaming movies to the ship.
[18:20] #knownspace> SeanS: I was making a joke about armaggeddon when they said spread focus laser which would essentially be a spotlight
[18:20] #knownspace> Lensman: Your friend should elevate his nose and say "You know nothing about how radio signals fuzz out over the distance of lightyears, or you wouldn't say that."
[18:21] #knownspace> Fred: lol, there's a bunch of hits for 'laser pizza slicer'
[18:21] #knownspace> Jim: LOL
[18:21] #knownspace> SeanS: heh.. like light saber cheese slicer?
[18:22] #knownspace> Fred: Jim, it's just an animation of a ship flying by. Who knows how big it is or what it's talking to or if that stick coming out the front is an antenna at all?
[18:22] #knownspace> Lensman: I have a Master Replica "Luke Skywalker" lightsaber, but I doubt it would do well as a pizza cutter!
[18:22] #knownspace> Fred: lot of waste there lensman
[18:22] #knownspace> Fred: cut a full size pizza into bagel bites
[18:24] #knownspace> Lensman: No, I'm serious about the radio signals. I read a year or two ago that the old SF standby of aliens learning English from our radio/TV transmissions won't work because over a distance of lightyears, radio signals turn to static. I'm not sure, but it makes sense to me that the shorter frequencies would be affected at a shorter range than the longer ones.
[18:25] #knownspace> Lensman: Oh, you mean "lot of waste" about the lightsaber pizza cutter. Unfortunately my real-world lightsaber's blade is a plastic tube with an EL light inside.
[18:26] #knownspace> Jim:
[18:27] #knownspace> Jim: Lensman, if they could decipher the communications back and forth from our submarines (VLF), then they could probably communicate via morse code.
[18:27] #knownspace> Lensman: ELF is even lower frequency than VLF, and the Navy uses ELF to communicate with submarines. Talk about a long antenna!
[18:28] #knownspace> Lensman: Dunno if that system is still used, but the schematic I saw showed an antenna longer than the sub.
[18:30] #knownspace> Lensman: It's not like normal radio communication tho. The Navy's ELF sends three letter codes which are pre-designated to mean certain things. If you wanted to send Morse Code it would be quite slow.
[18:31] #knownspace> Jim: VLF is used when the submarine is at the surface. ELF is used when the submarine is submerged.
[18:32] #knownspace> Jim: VLF can use Frequency-shift keying to send ASCII characters.
[18:33] #knownspace> Jim: CW is a problem with VLF because of interference and the limitations in power inherent to turning a transmitter on and off.
[18:33] #knownspace> Fred: taking mom for a walk, bbl
[18:33] #knownspace> Jim: OK
[18:33] #knownspace> Fred: in case I lose chat, would somebody message me the text of the antenna chat on facebook?
[18:34] #knownspace> Fred: I don't have email on this machine yet
[18:34] #knownspace> Lensman: What means "CW" ?
[18:34] #knownspace> Fred: so I can show it to my friend
[18:34] #knownspace> Fred: thanks!
[18:34] #knownspace> Lensman: Other than "Conventional Wisdom"...
[18:34] #knownspace> Jim: Continuous Wave, which is just a fancy way of saying ordinary morse code.
[18:34] #knownspace> Fred: L8r
[18:36] #knownspace> Jim: What frequency would radio communications between the Earth and a spacecraft orbiting an outer planet use?
[18:36] #knownspace> Jim: Pizza break.
[18:39] #knownspace> Lensman: Well, we don't have to wonder about that. Just look up what radio frequency the Pioneer space probes use/used. I haven't heard that's an issue.
[18:40] #knownspace> Jim:
[18:40] #knownspace> Lensman: Bandwidth issues. Issues with transmission quality while transiting the rings of Saturn. But I don't think communication is limited by frequency, except what the onboard antenna will pick up.
[18:41] #knownspace> Jim: 2292 MHz for the downlink to Earth with the Deep Space Network tracking the signal
[18:41] #knownspace> Jim: ""
[18:42] #knownspace> Jim: "Each transceiver is 8 watts and transmits data across the S-band using 2110 MHz for the uplink from Earth and 2292 MHz for the downlink to Earth with the Deep Space Network tracking the signal. "
[18:44] #knownspace> Lensman: 8 watts of power! By contrast, "Doc" Brinkley's "border blaster" radio station in the Depression era transmitted with a power of 150000 watts! Illegal in the USA, of course, that's why the transmitter was just over the border in Mexico.
[18:45] #knownspace> Jim: the low power causes the baud rate to be low
[18:47] #knownspace> Lensman: Wikipedia claims 500 kW for "Doc" Brinkley's station.
[18:49] #knownspace> Lensman: One unanswered question about the KS series is why messages via laser from the early interstellar colonies to Earth were so sparse. You'd think there would be constant communication.
[18:50] #knownspace> Lensman: Was the maintenance cost on the laser cannon too high to run them constantly? Surely it can't be the cost of energy, because you've got to have the fusion power device right there anyway. Shouldn't cost more to run it than to have it just sitting there.
[18:51] #knownspace> Lensman: That's a topic I should bring up when there are more people here to discuss it.
[18:53] #knownspace> Jim: Yes, they should have had a network called Voice Of Earth that was run by the UN and was operated solely to keep extra-solar colonies and spaceships aprised to the situation on Earth.
[18:56] #knownspace> Lensman: Sounds reasonable, yes.
[18:57] #knownspace> Lensman: I was talking to one of my correspondents about boosterspice and how long the delay was between its discovery on Jinx, and when the tech reached earth. I pointed out that the logical thing to do was to file the patent on earth by laser message, and accompany that with detailed instructions to make the stuff. No need to send a sample, as was done with the artificial organ tech in /A Gift from...
[18:57] #knownspace> Lensman: ...Earth/.
[18:58] #knownspace> Lensman: ...the artificial organ tech in /A Gift from Earth/.
[19:00] #knownspace> Lensman: According to the "Interlude" in /Protector/: "News from the colonies was sparse, although Jinx and Home had excellent communications lasers."
[19:01] #knownspace> Lensman: Actually, it doesn't say that news from Earth was sparse.
[19:24] #knownspace> Jim: reading about border blasters
[20:06] #knownspace> Jim: I am alone.
[20:06] #knownspace> Jim: bye
[21:08] Fred has joined #knownspace
[21:08] Fred_IRC has joined #knownspace