Chat Log: November 3rd 2007

Nov 03 14:17:55 <SeanS> i think i will follow mark's possible example and cruise up to the wine store

Nov 03 14:18:01 <Dan> k

Nov 03 14:18:14 <Dan> I'll be here upon your return.

Nov 03 14:18:29 <SeanS> okey

Nov 03 14:35:14 <SeanS> backey

Nov 03 14:35:22 <Dan> wb

Nov 03 14:35:39 <Dan> Typing up a post for the list.

Nov 03 14:36:02 <SeanS> sipping on a glass of water

Nov 03 14:59:07 <SeanS> hmm, chat start time imminant

Nov 03 15:00:03 <Dan> Yeah, I've copied the boilerplate into my post. That won't help the folks in digest mode, though.

Nov 03 15:00:33 <SeanS> it totally slipped my mind

Nov 03 15:03:59 <Dan> Message sent.

Nov 03 15:05:21 * NickE (~NickE@ has joined #knownspace

Nov 03 15:05:38 <SeanS> Greetings Mr. Edwards

Nov 03 15:06:33 <NickE> Hey matey, hi Dan

Nov 03 15:06:53 * senax (~frank@ has joined #knownspace

Nov 03 15:07:24 <Dan> Hiya folks!

Nov 03 15:07:32 <NickE> Hi Dan Hi Frank

Nov 03 15:07:34 <senax> Hello.

Nov 03 15:08:12 <senax> First time I've made it this early in a while. I expected more of a turnout.

Nov 03 15:08:20 <SeanS> Hi Frank

Nov 03 15:08:24 <NickE> How you doin Dan? I finally caught up and read about your near miss

Nov 03 15:08:31 <Dan> The day is still young.

Nov 03 15:08:37 <SeanS> well, I forgot to put out the chat notice

Nov 03 15:09:04 <Dan> I'm healing slower than I want, but doing great otherwise.

Nov 03 15:09:15 <NickE> Thats good. Lyn?

Nov 03 15:09:45 <senax> Good to hear you're doing well, Dan.

Nov 03 15:09:57 <NickE> (I did get that right?)

Nov 03 15:10:10 <SeanS> you did ;)

Nov 03 15:10:17 <NickE> <phew!>

Nov 03 15:10:17 <Dan> 50th birthday today, in fact. Two of my stepchildren are here/in flight to get here. Lyn's two daughters.

Nov 03 15:10:27 <senax> Happy birthday!

Nov 03 15:10:28 <NickE> Happy BD Dude!

Nov 03 15:11:47 <Dan> Lyn is all excited about the girls being here. Spoken with their brother on the phone, he can't get time away from college right now, but will visit between semesters ASAP.

Nov 03 15:12:51 <Dan> I'm still unable to use mt left hand to type, or do much of anything, but my typing is getting fastr again.

Nov 03 15:12:53 <Dan> :)

Nov 03 15:13:14 <NickE> thats good

Nov 03 15:13:25 <NickE> Glad you were both basically OK

Nov 03 15:14:18 <Dan> Yeah. Lyn is out of the neck brace and no longer needs physical therapy or pain pills.

Nov 03 15:14:27 <NickE> Thats good

Nov 03 15:14:28 <SeanS> good to hear that

Nov 03 15:14:47 <NickE> brb

Nov 03 15:15:26 <Dan> So I'm just enjoying a long vacation away from work. LOL!

Nov 03 15:15:43 <SeanS> thats one way to look at it

Nov 03 15:17:11 <Dan> We've got enough cash in the bank to cover all the bills until New Years, and we have enough for food, too. So we're really far ahead of the game.

Nov 03 15:17:58 <Dan> The one major downside is that I'll have to get a loan to buy a new car.

Nov 03 15:18:49 <Dan> But enough about me. Who has spoilers for "Fleet..."?

Nov 03 15:19:09 <SeanS> i dont have a copy yet

Nov 03 15:19:25 <Dan> I won't be able to read it until the paperback comes out, as usual.

Nov 03 15:19:40 <SeanS> tho my girlfriend is driving by a Barnes and Noble later today so ya never know ;)

Nov 03 15:19:42 <senax> LOL. I wonder if some people are avoiding the chat because they haven't read it yet and figure we'll be talking about it.

Nov 03 15:20:06 <Dan> Could be. Never thought of that!

Nov 03 15:20:12 <SeanS> there was talk about doing a FoW specific chat next Saturday

Nov 03 15:20:44 <senax> I finished it a few days ago...was trying to finish it in time for last week's chat but couldn't

Nov 03 15:20:55 <NickE> I only just ordered mine

Nov 03 15:21:10 <Dan> That's when Ed has his first chance to get in on it, isn't it?

Nov 03 15:21:58 <NickE> Ed has turned up quite a few times recently

Nov 03 15:23:02 <NickE> Well, I've had a long enough vacation from work for now (was made redundant at end of August)

Nov 03 15:23:17 <senax> Sorry to hear that, Nick.

Nov 03 15:23:26 * Lensman (~lensman@ has joined #knownspace

Nov 03 15:23:29 <NickE> So it's just as well I got a job offer yesterday!

Nov 03 15:23:34 <NickE> WooHoo!

Nov 03 15:23:35 <SeanS> excellent

Nov 03 15:23:40 <Dan> Hiya, Lens.

Nov 03 15:23:41 <senax> Cool.

Nov 03 15:23:44 <NickE> Hey Lens

Nov 03 15:23:47 <senax> Hi Lensman.

Nov 03 15:23:55 <Lensman> Congrats, Nick!

Nov 03 15:23:57 * Hippy (~captlychee@ has joined #knownspace

Nov 03 15:24:05 <Lensman> Hi all. Can't stay, just peeking in.

Nov 03 15:24:07 <NickE> Yep. Pleased. Back working at Oxford Uni doing vaccine stuff

Nov 03 15:24:10 <Hippy> Good afternoon, everyone

Nov 03 15:24:16 * Lensman is now known as Lensman_free

Nov 03 15:24:17 <NickE> Hey dude

Nov 03 15:24:19 <Dan> Hey, hey, the gang is showing up!

Nov 03 15:24:20 <senax> Hi Hippy

Nov 03 15:24:30 <NickE> cool

Nov 03 15:24:34 <SeanS> hi Lens, Hippy

Nov 03 15:24:44 <Hippy> Howdy, senax, Sean

Nov 03 15:25:18 <Lensman_free> Hey Sean, is it okay if I change the subject line to "Fleet of Worlds chat here next Saturday" ?

Nov 03 15:25:19 * Hippy is now amazed that he has found a positive use for daylight saving time. He gets here earlier

Nov 03 15:25:49 <Dan> Yay for getting here earlier!

Nov 03 15:25:50 <NickE> Not sure mine will have turned up by then :-(

Nov 03 15:25:56 <SeanS> sure

Nov 03 15:26:01 <NickE> Early is often good

Nov 03 15:26:05 <SeanS> anybody can change the topic any time

Nov 03 15:26:15 <Lensman_free> What's the command for changing the topic in IRC?

Nov 03 15:26:24 <SeanS> what client are you using?

Nov 03 15:26:29 <Lensman_free> mIRC

Nov 03 15:26:40 <SeanS> right click in the channel and select channel modes

Nov 03 15:26:51 <SeanS> makes it easy

Nov 03 15:27:12 * Lensman_free has changed the topic to: FLEET OF WORLDS here next Saturday!

Nov 03 15:27:17 <Hippy> NickE: well, it means I can get up an hour later for the next five months. Normally I hate daylight saving time but it does have this one use

Nov 03 15:27:24 * Lensman_free has changed the topic to: FLEET OF WORLDS chat here next Saturday!

Nov 03 15:27:27 <NickE> Oh ate

Nov 03 15:27:30 <NickE> aye

Nov 03 15:27:45 <NickE> But I hate having to ride home in teh dark

Nov 03 15:27:51 * Dan loves nIRC.

Nov 03 15:27:57 <Hippy> You got that right!!!

Nov 03 15:27:58 <NickE> At least it will be 20 miles less commuting a day

Nov 03 15:28:10 * Hippy also loves mIRC

Nov 03 15:28:13 * Dan hates his own typos, LOL!

Nov 03 15:28:29 <NickE> I gotta go eat folks, but will return

Nov 03 15:28:31 <Lensman_free> I love mIRC! The Java chat is so rescource consuming-- can't run that and my Civ II game at the same time!

Nov 03 15:28:46 <Hippy> Munch on, Nick. Munch on!

Nov 03 15:29:05 <Lensman_free> Anyway, gotta go guys, have fun, TTYL.

Nov 03 15:29:13 <Hippy> Lens: I found the Civ II stuff. Did you still want it?

Nov 03 15:30:02 <Hippy> Oh, sorry. You've actually got it.

Nov 03 15:30:05 <Dan> I'm going to give my stepson a copy so that he can play with the source code and take his mind off how much he's missing really advanced stuff in his college courses so far.

Nov 03 15:30:10 <Hippy> It's too early to read here. . .

Nov 03 15:30:31 * SeanS wanders off for a sec in search of a glass of wine while humming 'its 5 oclock somewhere'

Nov 03 15:30:36 <Hippy> A laudable goal, Dan

Nov 03 15:30:37 <Lensman_free> Hippy: Check your e-mail inbox!

Nov 03 15:31:52 <SeanS> back

Nov 03 15:31:56 <Hippy> Lens: oh, no. If you replied, I think it might've got trapped by the spam killer. I'm so sorry. When did you reply?

Nov 03 15:32:06 <Dan> Cheers, Sean!

Nov 03 15:32:55 <SeanS> nice post, Dan

Nov 03 15:33:16 * FlyingDragon (~Carol@ has joined #knownspace

Nov 03 15:33:26 * SeanS gives channel operator status to FlyingDragon

Nov 03 15:33:35 <Dan> Thanks. Although I sometimes feel that I get too wordy.

Nov 03 15:33:50 <Hippy> Afternoon, Carol

Nov 03 15:33:56 <FlyingDragon> Hello. Can't stay long. The boy wants me to read, and I've been putting him off a LONG time now.

Nov 03 15:34:02 <Dan> Hiya Carol! Saw the photos, they look great!

Nov 03 15:34:06 <senax> Hi Carol

Nov 03 15:34:15 <FlyingDragon> Y'all see my pictures? Thanks Dan.

Nov 03 15:34:15 <Hippy> Ah, got your email, Lens. Disks will be on their way if I can get your postal address

Nov 03 15:34:38 <FlyingDragon> Hippy, is that Mark?

Nov 03 15:35:29 <Hippy> No. D J Rout from cloudy Melbourne

Nov 03 15:35:39 <FlyingDragon> I felt like I was pretty lucky on that reflection.

Nov 03 15:35:49 <FlyingDragon> Hello, Hippy/D J!

Nov 03 15:35:49 <Hippy> We had water falling out of the sky last night. It's the coming apocalypse!!

Nov 03 15:35:55 <FlyingDragon> LOL

Nov 03 15:36:16 <Dan> That was artistic, Carol. Even more impressive if it was accidental.

Nov 03 15:36:39 <FlyingDragon> We worked very hard on that.

Nov 03 15:36:53 <SeanS> it was very nice, carol

Nov 03 15:36:58 <FlyingDragon> Hippy, have you seen the pictures of my Halloween decorations? My Blog URL

Nov 03 15:37:02 <FlyingDragon> TY, Sean.

Nov 03 15:37:36 <FlyingDragon> We worked very hard on making it look inpressive, not on it being accidental!!!

Nov 03 15:37:42 <SeanS> heh

Nov 03 15:38:24 <Hippy> I shall open a window forthwith, Carol (Ah, Halloween. . .the viral social event. . .)

Nov 03 15:38:37 <FlyingDragon> viral?

Nov 03 15:39:16 <Dan> Spreads everywhere, even if some folksdon't want it.

Nov 03 15:40:03 <Hippy> Exactly, Dan. One other thing that's happened in the last 50 years. . . :)

Nov 03 15:40:05 <FlyingDragon> Not the way I see it. I see it as the funnest/bestest holiday that the fundies are ruining to death.

Nov 03 15:40:22 <SeanS> i agree carol

Nov 03 15:40:36 <FlyingDragon> Hippy, you feel that Halloween is gettting more prevalent? I see the opposite.

Nov 03 15:40:54 <FlyingDragon> Sean, fun loving people agree with me!

Nov 03 15:41:38 <Hippy> Well, if they destroy it over there we will probably have a lot more of it. A woman down at the fish and chip shop last Wednesday said she had had twenty children coming up for trick or treat. Now, bear in mind that when I was a child we didn't have Halloween. It's a long tradition we've inherited from K Mart

Nov 03 15:41:57 <Dan> LOL!

Nov 03 15:42:51 <Hippy> But I do like the Dark Mark sign, Carol. I might let a few friends know they can get one of those (unless you had it custom made or something)

Nov 03 15:43:08 <FlyingDragon> Happy Birthday Dan!!! It is my master's birthday too. He gets to spend it working, and testing for his ninth degree. I think he is probably far past the attitude that it is an honor and a priviledge to get to do Kuk Sool on his birthday, and he would probably be out on him motorbike. He just said "Yeah, but it is a NICE day!"

Nov 03 15:44:13 <Dan> It *is* a nice day here, thankfully. Warm, sunny, gentle breeze...

Nov 03 15:44:21 <FlyingDragon> My family made it as a family craft project. We probably have $100 in materials and 100 man, woman, and child hours in it.

Nov 03 15:44:33 <FlyingDragon> AFAIK, it is the only one in existance.

Nov 03 15:44:50 <FlyingDragon> I should send a copy of the picture to JK Rowlings!

Nov 03 15:44:55 <Hippy> Well, if you could do it again there's always Ebay

Nov 03 15:45:01 <Dan> You should.

Nov 03 15:45:25 <FlyingDragon> I coudl be WORLD FAMOUS!

Nov 03 15:45:32 <Hippy> Hell, yes. She likes stuff like that. It's only the gay porn fanfic she doesn't like (and who can blame her?)

Nov 03 15:46:09 <FlyingDragon> I'll find her website.....

Nov 03 15:46:19 <Hippy> Water is coming out of the sky again!!!

Nov 03 15:46:39 <Hippy> Well, I have the most thoroughly-rinsed jeans on the planet, at least

Nov 03 15:46:42 <Dan> Build a boat,quickly!

Nov 03 15:46:45 <SeanS> that dang global warming... screwing everything up.

Nov 03 15:47:50 <Hippy> Indeed. They were blaming the drought on it the other day. Now look. The only thing louder than the rain is the scratching of farmers' pens as they apply for flood relief

Nov 03 15:48:17 <Dan> Global Warming just means lower heating bills in the winter, for me. And more time in the pool in the summer! Yay!

Nov 03 15:48:25 <SeanS> i agree

Nov 03 15:48:33 * Hippy loves using a Larry Niven chat room to bitch about the agrarian sector of his once-proud country

Nov 03 15:49:19 <Hippy> 'We could be growing oranges in Alaska' to quote Dale from 'King of the Hill'

Nov 03 15:49:28 <Dan> :)

Nov 03 15:50:40 <Dan> It also means tha my Dad can take his dog out on the family farm and pretend to hunt quail and pheasant without risking freezing his toes off. :)

Nov 03 15:51:20 <senax> Pretend? Are the birds not there, or is the gun not loaded?

Nov 03 15:51:30 <SeanS> everyone keeps pointing to the IPCC report on global warming to justify their cause. In that report it says that global temperature will go up .25 of a degree every decade. That means that in forty years, if it was going to be 60 degrees it will be 61 degrees instead.

Nov 03 15:51:33 <Hippy> And if all the snow in Antarctica melts, the Thing from Another World will be among us

Nov 03 15:51:34 <Dan> And what did I get Mom & Dad for christmas? Overcoats. LOL!

Nov 03 15:52:19 <Dan> He'll have the gun loaded, but he loves the birds, so he seldom shoots any.

Nov 03 15:52:55 <SeanS> i love dove and quail.. so i try to put as many in the freezer as possible

Nov 03 15:53:36 <Hippy> '60 Minutes' over here did a report on the warming of Greenland. It will soon be as green as it used to be, meaning global catastrophe. How did the human race survive the middle ages? Papal intervention one presumes because we certainly can't take temperature changes of two or three degrees

Nov 03 15:53:50 <Dan> Dad spent what amounts to several week's pay buying young quail & pheasant to release on the farm.

Nov 03 15:54:17 <SeanS> a good investment in my opinion

Nov 03 15:54:27 * Hippy has stupidly (or global warmedly) forgotten where Dan lives - Georgia?

Nov 03 15:55:02 <Dan> Mine too. You should see the hawks and eagles that flock to the farm, too.

Nov 03 15:55:39 <Dan> Yep, northeast Georgia. About 2 hours drive NE of Atlanta.

Nov 03 15:56:07 <Dan> Some of those hawks are still on the endangered list.

Nov 03 15:56:15 <Hippy> Ah, good. My memory still functions and clearly hasn't been tampered with

Nov 03 15:56:31 <SeanS> yah, only about 4 hours from me. I really need to visit before you are involved in another car accident

Nov 03 15:58:04 <Dan> We used to have one red-tailed hawk that would sit on a fencepost of the field we were plowing... It'd leap off and catch rabbits that ran out of the undergrowth as we plowed.

Nov 03 15:59:01 <Dan> We could get within 10 yards of her sittin on that fencepost, and she'd just look at us.

Nov 03 15:59:23 <SeanS> when i was down in florida, there was a great white heron named charlie that would show up whenever you started to clean fish ;)

Nov 03 16:00:08 <Hippy> The famous red-tailed hawk, beloved of sound editors everywhere. I was reading that it's the cry of the red-tailed hawk that you hear whenever they show a vista of canyons on the screen

Nov 03 16:00:25 <Dan> Funny how they know that you don't intend them any harm sometimes.

Nov 03 16:02:34 <SeanS> yeppers

Nov 03 16:02:41 <Dan> The local zoo has a nice set-up for their hawks. People are in a tiny cage overlooking the exhibit, and the birds have open sky above them.

Nov 03 16:02:56 <SeanS> interesting twist

Nov 03 16:03:05 <FlyingDragon> :-) THe hawk knew you were going to scare out a rabbit for it. Neat.

Nov 03 16:03:09 <Dan> Works, too.

Nov 03 16:04:19 <NickE> back

Nov 03 16:04:22 <NickE> Hi Carol

Nov 03 16:04:25 <SeanS> hmm, wonder where mark is. wanted to ask him a mac oriented question

Nov 03 16:04:56 <senax> Was it a general question or something specific, Sean?

Nov 03 16:05:00 <NickE> Hmm, he's online, I'll Skype him

Nov 03 16:05:30 <Dan> Oh, last night I finished all the work I can do one-handed on my bowie knife sheath. All that's left is the sewing.

Nov 03 16:05:48 <SeanS> well, i was thinking about putting the hacked OS X on one of my test pc's to see what it was like. just wanted to know what he thought about it

Nov 03 16:06:14 <Hippy> That sounds interesting, Sean

Nov 03 16:06:20 <NickE> <shocked!> :-)

Nov 03 16:06:29 <SeanS> i am sure you are, Nick

Nov 03 16:07:27 <senax> Unless you're pretty lucky, I bet there'd be problems with some hardware.

Nov 03 16:07:28 <SeanS> 10.4.6 is what is downloading

Nov 03 16:07:30 <FlyingDragon> The boy has waited long enough, and REALLY wants me to read now. FInding new markets to admire our Dark Mark will have to wait. can't find a contact email at, and was looking at a fan site seh recommends. L8R.

Nov 03 16:07:33 <NickE> My now job uses PCs mostly thankfully

Nov 03 16:07:39 * senax is no Mac expert, though.

Nov 03 16:07:44 <NickE> Nice pics Carol btw

Nov 03 16:08:01 <senax> LOL. My job uses Solaris mostly thankfully.

Nov 03 16:08:09 <FlyingDragon> TY, Nick!

Nov 03 16:08:11 <SeanS> catch ya later, carol

Nov 03 16:08:17 <NickE> me either. I can use them, but prefer PCs even though they can be just as much of a pain

Nov 03 16:08:19 <senax> Bye Carol.

Nov 03 16:08:34 <NickE> I don't know my way round Macs very well

Nov 03 16:09:29 <SeanS> i mainly run linux here. just wanted to see what inspired vista so much without dragging a pc down to the microsoft black hole of bloated code

Nov 03 16:09:30 <NickE> Labs mostly use them for certain bits of equipment, but a few labs are dyed in the wool Mac fanatics

Nov 03 16:09:53 <Hippy> 'Bye Carol

Nov 03 16:10:03 <NickE> L8R CArol

Nov 03 16:12:11 <SeanS> what's mark's skype name?

Nov 03 16:12:30 <NickE> space_chippy

Nov 03 16:12:49 <NickE> H'es not answering a chat window

Nov 03 16:12:59 <SeanS> oh, i have that... was wondering who that was. must of added him after a bunch of alcohol

Nov 03 16:13:00 <Hippy> I used a Mac once - once- back in 1990 and never again. 'What does that blob mean? That's a what? Well, does that mean 'save'. 'open', 'delete', 'completely fuck up' or what? God damn it, where are the menus? I can read English, even if I have to squint at it on this digital watch sized screen!!'

Nov 03 16:13:38 <SeanS> heh

Nov 03 16:13:55 <SeanS> the closest thing to a mac i used was an apple IIgs that i very fondly remember

Nov 03 16:13:58 <Hippy> Not too vision-friendly the old Macs

Nov 03 16:14:09 <senax> Wow. Macs have changed a lot since then, hippy.

Nov 03 16:14:30 <Hippy> I would hope so, senax. So have PCs

Nov 03 16:14:59 * Hippy will agree though that Vista is worse than most forms of surgery

Nov 03 16:15:14 <senax> My first real experience with a mac was about 4 years ago when I bought an iBook G4. It was a homecoming of sorts as I've been a unix-head for a long time.

Nov 03 16:15:16 <NickE> not had the "pleasure" yet

Nov 03 16:15:38 <NickE> My brother is a huge unix head

Nov 03 16:16:05 <SeanS> i have been mainly linux for the last year or so.

Nov 03 16:16:10 <senax> I still use the iBook (I'm on it now) but there are a few things I don't like about the interface.

Nov 03 16:16:57 <NickE> I can just never forgive Macs for being so stubborn until recently on the whole single button mouse thing

Nov 03 16:17:18 <SeanS> since i have gotten dvd decrypter and dvd shrink to run under wine, i could remove windows from every pc with zero ill effects

Nov 03 16:17:26 <Dan> I've got a friend that regularly gives me recomendations to buy a Mac. What does he use at work? PCs and internet servers loaded with Unix. LOL!

Nov 03 16:17:28 <NickE> so irritating when there is such things as right clicks and scroll wheels

Nov 03 16:17:40 <senax> Stubborn is a good word for it, Nick...there's a lot of that attitude about certain things that could be fixed, but won't.

Nov 03 16:18:15 <Hippy> People say the same about Windows, too

Nov 03 16:18:28 <SeanS> hmm, isnt the mac os based on BSD unix?

Nov 03 16:18:52 <Hippy> I particularly hate the way VIsta kowtowed to the people who wanted to get rid of DOS so now I can't run my old DOS games in the command prompt window

Nov 03 16:18:55 <Dan> Dunno, it just sounded hourmous to me.

Nov 03 16:19:15 <NickE> Well yeah, but it was a simple ergonomic fix that they resisted for no sane reason as I can see

Nov 03 16:19:20 <senax> Somewhat, Sean. It's really the newer generation of NeXTStep, or however you capitalize that.

Nov 03 16:19:28 <SeanS> gotcha

Nov 03 16:20:02 <SeanS> *nix based one way or the other

Nov 03 16:20:02 <senax> My main interface gripe with MacOS is that there's no quick way to maximize a window.

Nov 03 16:20:21 <SeanS> Hippy, google up dosbox and see if that will help

Nov 03 16:20:28 <Dan> Ah, a DVD is finished converting the file and is finally burning.

Nov 03 16:21:00 <NickE> That too. disliked the menu preferences and defaults

Nov 03 16:21:17 <Hippy> Sean: good plan. I've heard about DosBox and may bother with it one day. But I have a selection of PCs and OS's to choose from if I'm desperate

Nov 03 16:21:22 <senax> Apple's attitude on the maximize thing is "you don't really need to do that." Stubborn. I'll decide what I need to do, thank you.

Nov 03 16:21:38 <SeanS> thats why i like linux, frank

Nov 03 16:22:14 <SeanS> looking forward to playing with KDE 4 in a couple of weeks

Nov 03 16:22:17 <NickE> agrre Frank

Nov 03 16:22:19 <NickE> agree

Nov 03 16:22:23 <senax> I like Linux. I use Linux, XP, and OS X at home, though not much with the XP box.

Nov 03 16:23:20 <Hippy> Speaking of XP, isn't there supposed to be a Service Pack out? I really must look into that

Nov 03 16:23:21 <SeanS> i kept xp on one box so the gf could play freecell. didnt realise till a few days ago that patience card game had about every card game i can think of as a part of it

Nov 03 16:23:33 * Hippy places that on huge, tottering 'To Do' pile

Nov 03 16:23:48 <SeanS> beyond service pack 2?

Nov 03 16:24:00 * senax keeps XP around for MS Flight simulator (and for the wife to play card games on)

Nov 03 16:24:06 <Hippy> Apparently SP 3

Nov 03 16:24:51 <Hippy> Vista not proving very popular they've decided to make some fixes for XP

Nov 03 16:25:12 <SeanS> i guess i should install vista on a box just for supporting people who have it. dont have a 12 ghz box with a terabyte of memory to make it perform

Nov 03 16:25:19 <Hippy> Another reason Vista sucks the big one is that it no longer has Solitaire, Freecell or anything on it

Nov 03 16:25:20 <SeanS> tho

Nov 03 16:25:20 <NickE> A lot of Vista stuff is available for XP according to teh mag I read

Nov 03 16:25:37 <NickE> No Freecell! Denied!

Nov 03 16:26:01 <senax> Really, Hippy? Doesn't that eliminate about half the MS user base then?

Nov 03 16:26:14 <SeanS> LOL... i would think so

Nov 03 16:26:23 <Hippy> Well, not on Vista Professional anyway. I have been the guinea pig of my circle as far as Vista goes and I'm advising them all to stick with XP

Nov 03 16:26:55 <Hippy> Senax, I suspect so. Certainly the sales of Vista support that theory

Nov 03 16:26:56 <Dan> I'll stick with XP Home & Win 2000 as long as I can, though Sean has gotten me interested in playing around with unix on one old laptop I have that's otherwise a doorstop.

Nov 03 16:27:03 <SeanS> i have advised everyone i know to stick with xp based on online friend's recommendations

Nov 03 16:27:13 <NickE> Which i s what I did with our Laptop, managed to get them to put XP Media Center on it rather than Vist

Nov 03 16:27:32 <NickE> Vista whe we got it

Nov 03 16:28:19 <Hippy> Definitely the right move. So what's all this vaccine stuff you're doing?

Nov 03 16:29:00 <SeanS> if i bought a new laptop right now, i would just say send it with whatever OS makes it cheapest for me.

Nov 03 16:29:01 <NickE> New job and area of research for me

Nov 03 16:29:26 <SeanS> when it showed up, i would scrub it and put suse linux on it

Nov 03 16:29:39 <NickE> Malaria, TB and Flu vaccine development and QC for stuff going into existing clinical trials

Nov 03 16:30:29 <NickE> So big steep learning curve for an ex cancer scientist

Nov 03 16:30:33 <Hippy> Malaria, eh? That sounds interesting. I didn't know they still used TB vaccine. I thought TB had gone the way of smallpox

Nov 03 16:31:42 <NickE> Not at all. Very much on the increse I'm afraid, including several antibiotic resistant strains

Nov 03 16:31:46 <senax> I think TB is still pretty widespread in some parts.

Nov 03 16:31:50 * Hippy sometimes wishes for a learning curve - but then thinks 'Nope. Retired. Time to relax. If I need a learning curve I'll do something gradual, like cooking.'

Nov 03 16:31:52 <NickE> yes

Nov 03 16:32:13 <NickE> I quite like the learning curve

Nov 03 16:32:20 <NickE> till I fall off :-)

Nov 03 16:32:24 * senax remembers getting warned about TB in Korea several years ago.

Nov 03 16:32:56 <Hippy> This is interesting. Maybe it's on the increase here, too.

Nov 03 16:33:09 <SeanS> cooking is fun. I let julie cook me one meal and then we came to an agreement. I cook, she cleans up.

Nov 03 16:33:30 * EML (~EML@ has joined #knownspace

Nov 03 16:33:33 <Hippy> Cooking is good if you have a disheasher

Nov 03 16:33:35 <NickE> Hi Ed!

Nov 03 16:33:40 <EML> Hi, all.

Nov 03 16:33:41 <Hippy> Howdy, Ed

Nov 03 16:33:51 <senax> Hi Ed.

Nov 03 16:34:03 <NickE> I havent read FOW yet, it's on order!

Nov 03 16:34:08 <EML> What's happening?

Nov 03 16:34:11 <NickE> promise

Nov 03 16:34:14 <NickE> :-)

Nov 03 16:34:27 <SeanS> Hi Ed

Nov 03 16:34:48 <NickE> general chit chat. Next week for full on FOW chat apparently

Nov 03 16:34:58 <Hippy> I'm taking the punt that it will FOW will get here tomorrow. Then, once they have replaced my cornea with one I can read through, I shall devour it

Nov 03 16:35:12 <EML> So: no FOW spoilers today, huh?

Nov 03 16:35:17 <SeanS> please no

Nov 03 16:35:27 <senax> Liked the book a lot, Ed. Is there a publication date for the sequel yet?

Nov 03 16:35:32 <Hippy> You can tell us if the butler did it

Nov 03 16:35:38 <SeanS> I suspect that there is a copy in my gf's car at this moment

Nov 03 16:35:40 <NickE> I'll just stick my fingers in my ears and go LALALALALA :-)

Nov 03 16:36:03 <EML> Thanks, Senax. JUGGLER is supposedly out in August 2008.

Nov 03 16:36:14 <senax> There is a butler of sorts, Hippy. :-)

Nov 03 16:36:15 <SeanS> tho since my birthday is the 27th of this month, wheather i will get it or not is a big question

Nov 03 16:36:22 <SeanS> whether

Nov 03 16:36:47 <SeanS> other than that, I am with NickE

Nov 03 16:36:53 <EML> Anyone know if Larry will join the FOW chat next week?

Nov 03 16:37:01 <SeanS> dont know

Nov 03 16:37:10 <SeanS> carol might but she is reading with the kids

Nov 03 16:37:32 <Hippy> He might if we petition him. . .

Nov 03 16:37:34 <NickE> brb

Nov 03 16:37:57 <SeanS> Ed, you collaborated with him, give him a call and ask ;0

Nov 03 16:37:57 <EML> Since it's so quiet, I'll share a pet peeve.

Nov 03 16:38:00 * Hippy afk for ablutions

Nov 03 16:38:52 <NickE> back

Nov 03 16:38:56 <Dan> Share away...

Nov 03 16:39:01 <EML> Why do some reviews say readers need to have read RINGWORLD? FLEET takes places much earlier -- it says so right on the cover.

Nov 03 16:39:38 <SeanS> i have made an effort to read no reviews

Nov 03 16:40:13 <Dan> Because those reviewers don't read much except what they review, I expect.

Nov 03 16:40:18 <NickE> Me too. Seems odd for anyone to say that. Neutron Star might be a better KS intro

Nov 03 16:40:24 <senax> One review in particular outlined almost the entire plot--glad I didn't read that until after I finished the book!

Nov 03 16:40:37 <EML> Skipping reviews (and back covers) works well if you know your'e going to get a book.

Nov 03 16:40:54 <NickE> Which is why I've avoided them, Still been somewhat spoiled tho

Nov 03 16:41:16 <NickE> Well exactly. I was never not going to buy it

Nov 03 16:41:34 <SeanS> hey, for most of this crowd, if it says niven on the cover, it will be read. no reason to read a review

Nov 03 16:42:07 * Hippy returned

Nov 03 16:42:11 <SeanS> crowd meaning the list, not just here in the chat room

Nov 03 16:42:22 <EML> Of course it's nice when reviews bring in new readers.

Nov 03 16:42:53 <SeanS> true. but you are already among the choir

Nov 03 16:43:48 <senax> I was pleasantly surprised how good the book was--I generally prefer Niven's solo work, so I wasn't thrilled with the idea of a Known Space novel written with (to me) an unknown co-author.

Nov 03 16:44:06 <SeanS> I will read the reviews after i have read the book itself

Nov 03 16:44:13 * senax is looking forward to Juggler.

Nov 03 16:44:17 <NickE> Everyone on the list who has seen it says the same, that it's very good

Nov 03 16:44:27 <NickE> SO really looking forward to it

Nov 03 16:44:32 <EML> <grin>

Nov 03 16:44:33 <NickE> That too

Nov 03 16:45:19 <SeanS> I am REALLY looking forward to it as well

Nov 03 16:45:30 <Dan> Same here.

Nov 03 16:45:35 <Hippy> I think I'll move it above Mr Chafe's work in the pile once I'm able to read print again. (It will probably be on audiobook by then :) )

Nov 03 16:46:28 <EML> There will be an audiobook of FLEET. I don't yet know the release date.

Nov 03 16:46:43 <Hippy> Oh, good!

Nov 03 16:47:10 <EML> Me too -- be nice to hear it in a voice other than my own!

Nov 03 16:47:44 <Hippy> 'As read by Billy Connolly. . .'

Nov 03 16:47:46 <SeanS> books on tape, or cd now, are great depending on the reader

Nov 03 16:48:07 <SeanS> the guy that did the harry potter books was fantastic

Nov 03 16:48:09 <NickE> I quite liked DF

Nov 03 16:48:18 <Dan> That's another drawback caused by the auto accident: I can't concentrate on reading a book or writing on my own projects yet. :(

Nov 03 16:48:23 <NickE> Well, Fry's a National Treasure :-)

Nov 03 16:48:29 <Hippy> Indeed, Sean. I'm listening to the complete James Bond at the moment and the ones by David Rintoul are streets ahead of the ones by Robert Whitfield

Nov 03 16:49:25 <EML> Maybe Fran Drescher as the vocie of Nessus?

Nov 03 16:49:42 <Hippy> ROTFLOL!!!!

Nov 03 16:49:56 <Dan> Cathlene turner, please... :)

Nov 03 16:50:05 <Hippy> That's a thrilling contralto if ever I heard one

Nov 03 16:50:23 <NickE> Oh yes

Nov 03 16:50:37 <SeanS> just called gf. there is not a copy of FoW in the car :(

Nov 03 16:50:43 <NickE> awww

Nov 03 16:50:46 <Dan> Awwwwwwww.

Nov 03 16:51:01 <Hippy> Does anyone know who Larry was thinking of when he described the standard Puppeteer voice? I've always assumed it was his wife but I"ve never heard her speak

Nov 03 16:51:05 <Dan> Better luck next shopping trip, Sean.

Nov 03 16:51:20 <SeanS> well, a little short at the moment. will have a copy next friday.

Nov 03 16:51:22 <EML> your hinting skills need work, Sean -- OR gf is practicing disinformation on you

Nov 03 16:51:34 <SeanS> could be disinfo

Nov 03 16:51:45 <SeanS> she is sneaky like that sometimes

Nov 03 16:52:31 <EML> where gifts are concerned, I think it's permissiblbe to lie like a rug.

Nov 03 16:52:37 <SeanS> wasnt on the phone long. she is on the interstate and said she had a phone in one hand and a cigarette in the other. she didnt know how she was driving the car. so i got off the phone

Nov 03 16:53:12 <NickE> !

Nov 03 16:53:15 <EML> wise choice

Nov 03 16:53:40 <SeanS> i thought so

Nov 03 16:53:46 <SeanS> she is about 12 miles out

Nov 03 16:54:35 <SeanS> so how are the sales figures for Fleet? are you told those numbers, ed?

Nov 03 16:54:51 * Lensman_free is now known as lensman_inert

Nov 03 16:54:53 * SeanS knows nothing about the publishing business

Nov 03 16:55:22 <EML> publishers hold those numbers closely -- I won't see a royalty report for a while

Nov 03 16:55:32 <SeanS> k

Nov 03 16:55:54 <EML> I do like the Amazon ranking, though.

Nov 03 16:56:09 <SeanS> which is?

Nov 03 16:56:28 <lensman_inert> "Had Louis visualized a woman to go with that voice, she would have been Cleopatra, Helen of Troy, Marilyn Monroe, and Lorelei Huntz rolled into one."

Nov 03 16:56:28 * SeanS is being lazy asking. pretty high speed connection here

Nov 03 16:56:53 <senax> Hope it's not as bad as the movie biz, where they'll trumpet the blockbuster business a film is doing, then fudge the numbers so they can tell the stakeholders it didn't make a dime.

Nov 03 16:57:16 <NickE> Mark is popping by

Nov 03 16:57:18 <EML> It varies, of course. Generally 1000, plus or minus. About #20, plus or minus, among SF titles.

Nov 03 16:57:32 * chief_strike_anywhere (~nickdanger@ has joined #knownspace

Nov 03 16:57:35 <SeanS> excellent

Nov 03 16:57:38 <SeanS> yo mark

Nov 03 16:57:38 <chief_strike_anywhere> hi guys#

Nov 03 16:57:44 <Dan> WB, Mark.

Nov 03 16:57:54 <NickE> see

Nov 03 16:57:56 <chief_strike_anywhere> thanks. i was haivng client problems bfore

Nov 03 16:58:25 <SeanS> heh... doesnt seem to be a server problem ;)

Nov 03 16:58:30 <senax> Who's Lorelei Huntz?

Nov 03 16:58:34 <lensman_inert> Ed, could you e-mail Larry and ask if he'd like to join the FOW chat next week? He hasn't responded to my e-mails on the subject.

Nov 03 16:58:48 <NickE> A future "feelie" star I think

Nov 03 16:58:50 <EML> Sure, I'll mention it.

Nov 03 16:58:51 <Hippy> The movie business explores new territories in the field of accounting

Nov 03 16:58:54 <Dan> Vid-Star contemporary to

Nov 03 16:59:06 <lensman_inert> I'm guessing "Lorelei Huntz" is someone in Louis' culture, not born yet.

Nov 03 16:59:09 <Dan> Louis, I always assumed.

Nov 03 16:59:31 <NickE> Thats what I assumed also

Nov 03 16:59:33 <senax> OK.

Nov 03 17:00:08 <lensman_inert> Dan: Louis is "Lorelei"?? Is there something you know which we don

Nov 03 17:00:12 <lensman_inert> don't???

Nov 03 17:00:23 <lensman_inert> :)

Nov 03 17:00:31 * chief_strike_anywhere (~nickdanger@81.102.177.XX) has left #knownspace

Nov 03 17:00:38 <Dan> I inadertently split that into two lines.

Nov 03 17:00:51 <senax> Maybe Chrissie Hynde would be the right kind of voice.

Nov 03 17:01:02 <NickE> MMmm, that could work

Nov 03 17:01:10 * Dan is still without the use of his left hand...

Nov 03 17:01:17 * lensman_inert is now known as lensman_free

Nov 03 17:01:22 * chief_strike_anywhere (~nickdanger@ has joined #knownspace

Nov 03 17:01:32 <NickE> still strapped up?

Nov 03 17:01:33 <chief_strike_anywhere> i can see i need a better irc client

Nov 03 17:01:39 <NickE> wb

Nov 03 17:01:41 <chief_strike_anywhere> i blame Vista

Nov 03 17:01:43 <EML> any FRIENDS fans? How about Janice (Maggie Wheeler)?

Nov 03 17:01:45 <SeanS> wb, you still having client problems or did you click the wrong button

Nov 03 17:01:50 <Hippy> Since the only one of those with a voice Larry would've known is Marilyn (Monroe) can we assume Nessus sounds like Marilyn Monroe? I hope not. I think Kathleen Turner might be a good choice

Nov 03 17:01:51 <NickE> OMG no!!!!!

Nov 03 17:01:59 <Dan> Yeah, at least three more weeks with my arm in a sling.

Nov 03 17:02:02 <chief_strike_anywhere> I have a bunch of things running at once. i think it's causing problems

Nov 03 17:02:06 <NickE> I mean not Janice

Nov 03 17:02:12 <NickE> KH oh yes

Nov 03 17:02:17 <chief_strike_anywhere> heh heh heh. pretty glowing window edges are worth 1/2 of my systems performance

Nov 03 17:02:18 <Hippy> Another Vista victim!!

Nov 03 17:02:22 <senax> And Paulie Shore as the voice of Louis Wu.

Nov 03 17:02:24 <NickE> KT I mean

Nov 03 17:02:57 <Dan> Turner has always been the voice in my head for Nessus.

Nov 03 17:03:02 <EML> any voices for Sigmund Ausfaller?

Nov 03 17:03:03 * SeanS refuses to start chanting linux linux linux

Nov 03 17:03:24 <NickE> How about a South Park version of RW. Cartman=Speaker? :-)

Nov 03 17:03:30 <chief_strike_anywhere> I passed my first 2003 MCSE exam. Joy

Nov 03 17:04:24 <Hippy> Sigmund? Well, how about Michael Madsen? He has a good voice on the Driver 3 game

Nov 03 17:04:43 <NickE> Not bad, I could go with that

Nov 03 17:04:48 * SeanS gives channel operator status to chief_strike_anywhere

Nov 03 17:05:09 <Hippy> Cartman/Speaker: "Screw you guys, I have a variable sword."

Nov 03 17:05:11 <senax> Dan Aykroyd for Ausfaller.

Nov 03 17:05:16 <NickE> LOL

Nov 03 17:05:20 <Dan> LOL

Nov 03 17:05:24 <senax> His Friday was pretty good.

Nov 03 17:05:25 <EML> Johnny Depp

Nov 03 17:05:42 <SeanS> lol, hippy

Nov 03 17:05:54 <Dan> Sean Connery for Speaker.

Nov 03 17:06:10 <Hippy> Instead of saying 'How much intelligence does it take to sneak up on a leaf?' he would say 'It's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippie crap.'

Nov 03 17:06:28 <NickE> Rush did a South Park intro (i.e.had the cartoon done) for Tom Swyer on the latest tour

Nov 03 17:06:39 <Hippy> Kenny as Teela. Teela doesn't say much anyway

Nov 03 17:06:43 <NickE> heh

Nov 03 17:07:10 <SeanS> oh my god, teela got sucked into an eye storm! you bastards!

Nov 03 17:07:26 <NickE> ONG, they killed Kenny!...Oh, no, wait, he's fine, that was lucky!

Nov 03 17:07:29 <Hippy> Stan as Louis Wu and Kyle as Nessus. That works out pretty well, as Kyle is the more fearful one

Nov 03 17:07:30 <chief_strike_anywhere> sigh... children.... (don't kill the children... must not kill the children)

Nov 03 17:07:59 * FlyingDragon is taking a peek into the room, having temporarily escaped her captive/

Nov 03 17:08:19 <NickE> Hi Carol

Nov 03 17:08:21 <EML> wrong metaphor. The Simpsons on Ringworld, anyone?

Nov 03 17:08:25 * Hippy waves to FlyingDragon

Nov 03 17:08:30 <EML> Olla, Carol

Nov 03 17:08:35 <chief_strike_anywhere> hi carol

Nov 03 17:08:42 <FlyingDragon> Olla!

Nov 03 17:08:48 <NickE> Oh e could run with this all night

Nov 03 17:08:55 <Dan> "Mmmmmmm... Food Bricks!"

Nov 03 17:09:00 <SeanS> carol, has larry mentioned coming to the fleet of worlds chat next weekend or have you talked to him

Nov 03 17:09:09 <Hippy> Hmm. The advantage of South Park is there are four of them. Who does Maggie play? Halrloprillalar?

Nov 03 17:09:16 <senax> Hmm...Julie Kavner as the voice of Nessus?

Nov 03 17:09:20 <FlyingDragon> EML, chief_strike_anywhere, did you get a chance to look at my Dark Mark pictures?

Nov 03 17:09:32 <chief_strike_anywhere> not yet. are they on the blog?

Nov 03 17:10:15 <FlyingDragon> Hippy, that is Lensman's thing. I won't be there. However, he said that Ed woudl be there, but LArry hasn't repleid to him. I have world tournament that day. ALL day, from before dawn to close to the witching hour.

Nov 03 17:10:31 <NickE> wow

Nov 03 17:10:32 <Hippy> Tress MacNeille could do a good Nessus, sounding like Lindsay Neagle who crops up from time to time

Nov 03 17:10:32 <EML> dark mark pictures?

Nov 03 17:10:34 <senax> Patty and Selma as Nessus' left and right heads...with a cigarette in each mouth.

Nov 03 17:10:36 <NickE> tiring day

Nov 03 17:10:49 <EML> senax LOL

Nov 03 17:11:02 <FlyingDragon> Yes, I've posted pictures on my blog:

Nov 03 17:11:22 <Hippy> Senax, I think you have it!

Nov 03 17:11:32 <FlyingDragon> I, we, decorated my house with a dark mark for Halloween.

Nov 03 17:11:44 <NickE> How did you manage that btw?

Nov 03 17:11:51 <NickE> looked well cool

Nov 03 17:12:22 <FlyingDragon> the dark mark? 4'x8' piece of plywood, drill, three bits, 700 lights, rope, and a LOT of paint.

Nov 03 17:12:26 <EML> neat, Carol.

Nov 03 17:12:53 <FlyingDragon> How did I manage the reflection? That was a reflection in my husband's car. I thought it was too neat to not take advantage of.

Nov 03 17:12:56 <NickE> must have taken a while

Nov 03 17:13:05 <FlyingDragon> I figure about 100 hours.

Nov 03 17:13:19 <senax> Impressive. The design is not familiar to me...I take it it would be to Harry Potter fans?

Nov 03 17:13:22 <SeanS> among 4 people?

Nov 03 17:13:40 <FlyingDragon> I dont' normally take to doing that much work to decorate for a holiday, In fact just the time we spent in HANGING it was more time than I like to spend decorating.

Nov 03 17:13:50 <FlyingDragon> Yes, Harry Potter.

Nov 03 17:14:05 <FlyingDragon> Keegan and Clara didn't spend a LOT of time on it, but they did help.

Nov 03 17:14:12 <NickE> Joy did an ace Vlodemort pumpkin

Nov 03 17:14:17 <NickE> Voldemort

Nov 03 17:14:20 <FlyingDragon> :-)

Nov 03 17:15:01 <senax> We replace a toilet recently, so we put the old one in the yard with a plastic skeleton sitting on it dressed in a t-shirt with a pair of jeans around its ankles.

Nov 03 17:15:03 <NickE> Only had one lot of trick or treakers though

Nov 03 17:15:10 <NickE> heh

Nov 03 17:15:25 <senax> He=ave to see if there's a photo of it anywhere.

Nov 03 17:15:30 <SeanS> not bad, senax

Nov 03 17:15:52 <senax> Now the (rest of) the neighbors think we're really weird...

Nov 03 17:15:53 <SeanS> no kids in my area except for a newborn so i dont decorate

Nov 03 17:16:34 * FlyingDragon LOLs at Senex's decorations

Nov 03 17:17:19 * SeanS wonders why nesssus isnt here. she has made a big comeback lately

Nov 03 17:18:10 <SeanS> other than me totally forgeting to post the chat instructions that is

Nov 03 17:18:34 <SeanS> or chat reminder if you prefer

Nov 03 17:18:45 <FlyingDragon> She now has a life off her computer. See is probably at it again.

Nov 03 17:19:44 <Hippy> Wouldn't it be getting a bit late for her? I seem to recall she's in England

Nov 03 17:19:56 <SeanS> same as nicke and chief

Nov 03 17:19:57 <Dan> 10 PM there.

Nov 03 17:20:07 <Hippy> Oops. Yes, I just calculated that

Nov 03 17:20:36 * Hippy hates daylight saving time again. We don't need this, we BEAT the Kaiser!!!

Nov 03 17:20:45 <NickE> 9.20pm in fac

Nov 03 17:20:47 <NickE> t

Nov 03 17:20:47 * Dan has a father-in-law there, so the calculation is getting automatic.

Nov 03 17:21:25 * Hippy afk briefly to make a cup of tea

Nov 03 17:22:09 <EML> on a minor note -- I see the new ISS solar wing has been repaired

Nov 03 17:22:20 <SeanS> yeah, i type overseas enough that i tend to know times in england and new zealand

Nov 03 17:22:24 <SeanS> saw that ed

Nov 03 17:22:33 <Dan> Why can't we just split the difference, move the clock half an hour, and just *leave* it there?

Nov 03 17:22:51 <senax> SOunds good to me.

Nov 03 17:22:53 <Dan> :)

Nov 03 17:22:56 <SeanS> golf courses apparently ;)

Nov 03 17:23:11 <EML> no Congressional meddling? Dan, that's just crazy talk.

Nov 03 17:23:21 <FlyingDragon> It has, Ed? A friend of a friend was the guy that was going out to fix it.

Nov 03 17:23:51 <FlyingDragon> Sean, I usedt o be able to tell the time in AU. I got lazy. NOw, I merely remember that it is tomorrow there.

Nov 03 17:23:56 <EML> here's the link, Carol:;_ylt=AiIfp75fORvHmLI0emsbh04E1vAI

Nov 03 17:24:04 <Dan> I'm a crazy guy, Ed. :)

Nov 03 17:24:28 <SeanS> NZ is 18 hours ahead depending on what congress here does

Nov 03 17:24:36 <senax> I can just see that guy coming home from the mission...wife says "fixed a solar panel, great, how about that garage door"

Nov 03 17:25:29 <EML> now if only the ISS were used for something more than ... building more of the ISS.

Nov 03 17:25:44 <Dan> Does he have to suit up to go out to the front yard to oil the hinges on the gate?

Nov 03 17:25:52 <FlyingDragon> Yeah, Parazynski, the friend of a friend. My friend got up at 4 AM to go over to his house to sit with his wife. She missed MAster's Club being sucha good friend.

Nov 03 17:26:07 <senax> lol Dan.

Nov 03 17:26:21 <SeanS> i agree. i hate to think that the completion and retirement date for the ISS are the same

Nov 03 17:26:32 <FlyingDragon> EML, we learn more, even if they do spend too much time just maintaining the place.

Nov 03 17:26:36 <chief_strike_anywhere> yeah. lets'deorbit it now

Nov 03 17:26:46 <Dan> "Got my feet anchored, now to get the oil can out of the tool kit..."

Nov 03 17:26:47 <senax> My excuse is usually. "I'm a programmer; this looks like a hardware problem." Doesn't usually work, though.

Nov 03 17:26:48 <chief_strike_anywhere> nice 100 billion dollar lightshow

Nov 03 17:27:26 <senax> They never have put a full crew on the thing, have they?

Nov 03 17:27:33 <EML> Bigelow or Branson will buy it for pennies on the dollar. You heard it here first.

Nov 03 17:27:45 <SeanS> now that china is thinking of going to the moon, we will go back quick to keep all the alien secrets for ourselves

Nov 03 17:27:47 <chief_strike_anywhere> I don't think they ever will. they cut the ability to return more than 3 poeple

Nov 03 17:27:50 <Dan> My money's on Branson.

Nov 03 17:28:18 <EML> Senax, they *can't* put on a full crew. Budget cuts mean it can't take more than three. The overflow lives on the shuttle.

Nov 03 17:28:26 * SeanS might be listening to too much coast to coast am

Nov 03 17:28:30 <senax> And mothballing the shuttles _before_ the replacement is ready. Sad...

Nov 03 17:30:00 <Hippy> Well, if Darwin is anything to shout about, the Chinese will survive us all without any doubt

Nov 03 17:30:10 <EML> less than ten years to get to the moon -- and half a century to figure out how to do it again. very sad.

Nov 03 17:30:40 <senax> Darwin was big on the Chinese, was he?

Nov 03 17:30:58 <FlyingDragon> The problem, I'm sure is congress. Congress, I'm sure you remember, is the opposite of Progress.

Nov 03 17:31:12 <senax> Yup.

Nov 03 17:31:17 <SeanS> someone on the list uses a quote that is so true and so sad... 'I always knew I would see the first man on the moon. I never dreamed I would see the last' --Jerry Pournelle

Nov 03 17:32:03 <senax> Love the way they'll shoot down the first five attempts at something, then complain that the sixth is behind schedule.

Nov 03 17:32:05 <Hippy> According to Eric Idle, Darwin was. It's a line from Idle's 'I Like Chinese'

Nov 03 17:32:09 <EML> so *that* explains pandas. the reason they can't mate on Earth without help is 'cause they're natives of the moon.

Nov 03 17:32:19 <Dan> I'm betting that once the Chinese get in gear we'll see another space race.

Nov 03 17:32:52 <EML> hope you're right, Dan.

Nov 03 17:33:00 <senax> We might not be in it though...unless you're Indian.

Nov 03 17:33:04 <SeanS> I hope so as well

Nov 03 17:33:10 <Hippy> Between China and India. The Indians are the greatest migrants in the history of civilisation and you can bet that if China puts up a moonbase there will be a tandoori base near it

Nov 03 17:33:17 * jim_stiles (~jim_stiles@ has joined #knownspace

Nov 03 17:33:34 <EML> Hi, Jim

Nov 03 17:33:41 <SeanS> greetings, Jim

Nov 03 17:33:45 <Hippy> Afternoon, Jim

Nov 03 17:33:52 <Dan> Hope so. We in the US need a kick in the pants to get started in most things that depend on congress.

Nov 03 17:34:01 <Dan> Hiya Jim.

Nov 03 17:34:24 <jim_stiles> hi

Nov 03 17:34:46 <jim_stiles> what's been happening?

Nov 03 17:35:10 <SeanS> currently talking about the lack of space effort

Nov 03 17:35:24 <EML> people in LEO -- and nowhere farther

Nov 03 17:35:27 <Dan> Amerind, Senax. Make a land-bridge and my people will *walk* there. :)

Nov 03 17:35:28 <NickE> Hi Jim

Nov 03 17:35:30 <Hippy> What America needs is a clear goal. If you point and say 'Take that hill' Americans will take it. If you say 'We will be at the forefront of hill occupation for the foreseeable future' it gives you an excuse to stumble around.

Nov 03 17:35:44 * lensman_free is now known as lensman_inert

Nov 03 17:35:54 <NickE> wb

Nov 03 17:35:55 * Hippy loves generalisations anywhere, any time

Nov 03 17:36:33 <lensman_inert> Yah I confess Marilyn Monroe doesn't really do it for me, too silly. Give me Kathleen Turner/Jessica Rabbit, or Lauren Bacall!

Nov 03 17:36:47 <senax> Not that there's anything wrong with LEO--you can do a lot there.

Nov 03 17:37:02 <lensman_inert> Vin Diesel for Speaker.

Nov 03 17:37:14 <EML> Tricia Helfer aka Number Six (BSG)

Nov 03 17:37:18 <Hippy> I still like the South Park one

Nov 03 17:37:34 * rimworlder (~rimworlder@ has joined #knownspace

Nov 03 17:37:38 <SeanS> well, once you are in orbit, you are halfway to anywhere... its just that in 30 plus years, we havent gon anywhere

Nov 03 17:37:38 <senax> Bobcat Goldthwaite (remember him?) for Speaker.

Nov 03 17:37:39 <Hippy> You've lost me, Ed

Nov 03 17:37:50 <Dan> Hiya, rimworlder.

Nov 03 17:37:56 <jim_stiles> would Vin Diesel be willing to wear a suit and full makeup

Nov 03 17:37:57 <SeanS> battlestar galactica

Nov 03 17:38:06 <rimworlder> hi folks

Nov 03 17:38:17 <EML> Hippy -- I lost me, too. Never mind.

Nov 03 17:38:22 <rimworlder> I'm gonna be off and on - I lost track of the time and now I have to go make dinner

Nov 03 17:38:28 <Hippy> Oh, the new one with the Invisible Cylons

Nov 03 17:38:33 <FlyingDragon> Hello, rimworlder.

Nov 03 17:38:44 <EML> Hi, rimworlder

Nov 03 17:38:51 <Hippy> Howdy, rimworlder

Nov 03 17:39:10 <rimworlder> if you'd all like, I'll send you some virtual spaghetti with vodka sauce...

Nov 03 17:39:18 <Dan> LOL!

Nov 03 17:39:26 <jim_stiles> vodka sauce?

Nov 03 17:39:30 <senax> Nah, that stuff gums up my router.

Nov 03 17:39:37 <NickE>

Nov 03 17:39:43 <rimworlder> brb - gotta start the water a-boilin & the sauce a-bubblin

Nov 03 17:39:48 <NickE> Our pumpkins

Nov 03 17:39:58 <Dan> That's ok, my printer is too low on ink to handle spaghetti.

Nov 03 17:40:33 <EML> Sideshow Bob/Nessus ... Homer/Louis Wu ... Marge/Tella ... Speaker/(bidding is open)

Nov 03 17:40:49 <FlyingDragon> Does vodka sauce REALLY have vodka in it?

Nov 03 17:41:02 <Hippy> They are astounding!

Nov 03 17:41:05 <NickE> Krusty for Speaker

Nov 03 17:41:05 <jim_stiles> Speaker/comic book guy

Nov 03 17:41:11 <NickE> Or that

Nov 03 17:41:14 <chief_strike_anywhere> i'm watching some 50's dubbed japanese space invader movie Mystery Science Theater.

Nov 03 17:41:17 <chief_strike_anywhere> it's awesom

Nov 03 17:41:20 <chief_strike_anywhere> awesome

Nov 03 17:41:24 <Dan> Simpsons Speaker = Moe the bartender.

Nov 03 17:41:37 <jim_stiles> what channel has MST?

Nov 03 17:41:40 <NickE> That could work too

Nov 03 17:41:44 <lensman_inert> Nessus = Mr. Burns??

Nov 03 17:41:50 <EML> Moe -- sold.

Nov 03 17:41:52 <chief_strike_anywhere> jim -> usenet

Nov 03 17:41:54 <FlyingDragon> The pumpkin is pretty neat!

Nov 03 17:42:01 <Dan> Burns for Hindmost.

Nov 03 17:42:02 <chief_strike_anywhere> i have about 70 gigabytes of them

Nov 03 17:42:10 * FlyingDragon still waiting for the picture of the crapping skeleton.

Nov 03 17:42:11 <EML> Nurns for Hindmost, agreed

Nov 03 17:42:27 <NickE> Joy did teh cat and Voldemort, the 2 girls did the other 2

Nov 03 17:42:44 <senax> Time for me to go run a couple of miles--If I let myself put off exercise too long, I end up talking myself out of it...

Nov 03 17:42:47 <lensman_inert> Yah Burns=Hindmost. Hmmm, Nessus is actually female... maybe Lisa is Nessus?

Nov 03 17:42:52 <rimworlder> flyingD - yes it does have vodka in it

Nov 03 17:42:57 <NickE> Saw a link yestreday for an Awesome Firefly one, but cant find it now. I'll ask

Nov 03 17:43:11 <Hippy> Okay, senax. Pound that pavement!

Nov 03 17:43:12 <senax> I'm not sure if we took a picture, Carol, but if I find one, I will let you know.

Nov 03 17:43:35 <Hippy> Lisa as Nessus works.

Nov 03 17:43:43 <senax> I should have on the back of my shirt "I'd rather be pounding a beer!"

Nov 03 17:43:47 <FlyingDragon> This year's pumpkin was my least favorite ever. I was creatively taped out after the Dark Mark, I guess.

Nov 03 17:43:52 <senax> Later.

Nov 03 17:43:58 <EML> Nessus *sounds* (human) female. He isn't.

Nov 03 17:44:00 <jim_stiles> ? = Bart

Nov 03 17:44:16 * senax (~frank@24.252.63.XXX) has left #knownspace

Nov 03 17:44:17 <lensman_inert> Altho Lisa is not nearly manipulative enough.

Nov 03 17:44:33 <Dan> Bart = Seeker.

Nov 03 17:44:34 <rimworlder> I thought puppeteer sex was "ambiguous" as there are two puppeteers and a third required to procreate...

Nov 03 17:44:37 <Hippy> Good point, Ed

Nov 03 17:44:56 <NickE>

Nov 03 17:44:58 <NickE> found it

Nov 03 17:45:08 <NickE> Ask teh Buffy crowd, they know :-)

Nov 03 17:45:11 <lensman_inert> Hindmost makes it clear in RE that Nessus is female. There are hints in Rw that Nessus is female, if you pay attention.

Nov 03 17:45:11 <Hippy> But he is the cleverest of the Motley Crew and Lisa is the cleverest Simpson, so. . . Now as to Bart. . .

Nov 03 17:45:25 <Hippy> Lurlene Lumpkin for Halrolprillalar

Nov 03 17:45:26 <EML> Bart = Seeker --- that's good. We just don't have him romantically involved with Teela/Marge.

Nov 03 17:45:41 <FlyingDragon> When it takes three genders to procreate, male and female are not real descriptive terms.

Nov 03 17:45:51 <rimworlder> that's basically what I'm saying

Nov 03 17:45:58 <lensman_inert> However, that's female only in the genetic sense, since Puppeteer females don't carry the pregnancy.

Nov 03 17:46:07 <rimworlder> onion chopping time...

Nov 03 17:46:22 <EML> No need to infer things about Puppeteer gender ... it's in FLEET.

Nov 03 17:46:24 <jim_stiles> beer break

Nov 03 17:46:42 <Hippy> Lens: Hindmost says 'But he would not have discussed such things, would he? Nessus is shy on these subjects'

Nov 03 17:46:47 <Hippy> Note that pronoun

Nov 03 17:47:14 <FlyingDragon> THe real question is, Ed, does it contradict anything Ted and I wrote in "Many Kinds of Loving" about Puppeteer reproduction?

Nov 03 17:47:36 <Dan> Hippy, that might be an artifact of speaking Interworld.

Nov 03 17:48:08 <EML> Carol, I odn't know.

Nov 03 17:48:39 <Dan> Although I won't insist that's necessarily true.

Nov 03 17:48:43 <lensman_inert> Hippy: Puppeteers refer to both sexes as "he". It's a cultural thing. I cover this in the "Puppeteer" entry in my Concordance.

Nov 03 17:49:08 <Hippy> Dan: Hindmost could've used 'she' if it were appropriate. The assumption then would be that the Hindmost is a 'she'. Where 'male' is defined as 'produces lots of small eggs' and 'female'' as 'produces small amounts of large eggs'

Nov 03 17:49:28 <lensman_inert>

Nov 03 17:49:45 <jim_stiles> Is "Many Kinds of Loving" canonical?

Nov 03 17:50:03 <Hippy> Food for thought, Lens, although as Ed says we don't need to infer anymore

Nov 03 17:50:27 <FlyingDragon> No, but at the time it was writen, it did not conflict with anything that was.

Nov 03 17:50:40 <Dan> True enough. Although I would have stated it as sperm and eggs rather than large & small eggs... I'm just a fan. What do I know? :)

Nov 03 17:51:05 <lensman_inert> But we don't need to infer anymore from RE. Hindmost specifically says his kind deposits sperm and Nessus' kind deposits the egg in the associated species which acts as a surrogate mother. As Ed says, more details in FOW.

Nov 03 17:51:13 <jim_stiles> Did Larry say that MKOL was not canon?

Nov 03 17:51:50 <lensman_inert> I've only read MKOL once... AFAIK it's still compatible with canon. Pls note that

Nov 03 17:52:01 <lensman_inert> that's not the same as "canon"... just compatible with.

Nov 03 17:52:09 <jim_stiles> OK

Nov 03 17:52:36 <lensman_inert> As I see it, anyway. Carol may have a different definition of "canon".

Nov 03 17:53:32 <Hippy> Lens, I stand corrected. Admirably referenced

Nov 03 17:54:44 <Hippy> Dan: I'm paraphrasing Richard Dawkins. He used 'large and small' to get around the perception of what sperm does and how it acts in humans

Nov 03 17:54:54 <FlyingDragon> MKOL is just a fan story. No fan story is canon.

Nov 03 17:55:13 <Dan> Hippy, I can accept that.

Nov 03 17:55:21 <jim_stiles> OK

Nov 03 17:55:40 <NickE> Not cracking canon though makes it nice to wonder :-)

Nov 03 17:55:45 <lensman_inert> Well, my company is here. Wish I could continue the conversation!

Nov 03 17:55:53 * lensman_inert is now known as lensman_free

Nov 03 17:55:54 <NickE> NP

Nov 03 17:55:56 <EML> a larger section of the quote in RE is: We have two kinds of male, Louis. My kind implants its sperm in the female's flesh, and Nessus's kind implants its egg in the female with a most similar organ."

Nov 03 17:55:59 <rimworlder> where is the concordance mentioned found? I'm working on my own for another author...

Nov 03 17:56:08 <FlyingDragon> Yes, Lensman, compatable at the time. I was tired of people ASSUMING that baby puppetters ATE their way out of the host, and I wanted to come up with a was that fit where that wasn't so.

Nov 03 17:56:41 <FlyingDragon> Yes, and the "Female" is a nother species, which mate among themselves.

Nov 03 17:57:05 <Hippy> Ed - how could I have forgotten that. Okay, Nessus is female because she doesn't have sperm

Nov 03 17:58:16 <Hippy> Carol: thank you for doing that. I never assumed they ate their way out, either, and I don't know why Louis did

Nov 03 17:58:32 <FlyingDragon> zLEnsman siad that MKOL is STILL compatable with canon? Than nothing in FOW contradicts me/us? Way cool.

Nov 03 17:58:49 <Hippy> Rimworlder: there's a link there to Lens's concordance: www.freewebs.something or other

Nov 03 17:58:49 <FlyingDragon> Louis was mistaken!!!!!

Nov 03 17:58:55 <EML> Hippy, Hindmost says Nessus is *also* male -- just a different kind of male.

Nov 03 17:59:18 <FlyingDragon> Because the both insert genetic material into another creature.

Nov 03 18:00:09 <Hippy> Okay. Culturally male, genetically female? That covers all bases

Nov 03 18:00:19 <EML> Larry & I developed more background about gender roles and symbiont history than we used ... didn't want to bog down the story. Maybe in another book sometime.

Nov 03 18:01:45 <FlyingDragon> EML. I've been pointing out to LOTS of people lately, in responce to the revelation tha DUmbledore is gay, that writers often create a LOT of detail the the readers never see, in order to write the stories they did write easier and more convincingly.

Nov 03 18:02:16 <EML> very true.

Nov 03 18:02:44 <Hippy> But we are fans and must know this stuff!

Nov 03 18:03:19 <jim_stiles> didn't Heinlen once say that a sentence his fiction once took months of calculation

Nov 03 18:03:22 <Hippy> Well, I couldn't care less about Dumbledore's habits, but the history of the Puppeteer's symbionts is much more interesting

Nov 03 18:03:32 <rimworlder> thankd flyingd - got it

Nov 03 18:03:36 <Dan> Whew! One pain pill after two weeks of not taking any is roughly equivalent to chugging a pitcher of beer... Word to the wise.

Nov 03 18:03:58 <rimworlder> dan - try muscle relaxants on an empty stomach...

Nov 03 18:04:03 <FlyingDragon> Regarding Dumbledore, I follow the revelation that Grindewald and DUmbledore were lovers. WHich is why they were so close, Grindewald made SUCH a huge impact on Dumbledore, and it hurt him so much when their frinedship ended.

Nov 03 18:04:08 <Hippy> It'll save me a lot of beer money. Thanks, Dan

Nov 03 18:04:16 <FlyingDragon> Dan, take a half at a time.

Nov 03 18:04:40 <EML> a tough part of writing is to leave some of the keen world-building stuff OUT of the story.

Nov 03 18:04:41 <jim_stiles> oxycontin + 3 beers

Nov 03 18:05:09 <rimworlder> eml - and probably the funnest part of writing...

Nov 03 18:05:23 <rimworlder> sausage & ground beef time - this will take a bit - sorry

Nov 03 18:05:41 <EML> I'm going off to dinner soon, too.

Nov 03 18:05:59 <Hippy> Ed, no offence, but that is one of the sadder aspects of modern SF. World building can go hang so long as the characters act like mainstream fiction characters

Nov 03 18:06:00 <NickE> I had a great wine/brandy/endorphin high last night..was still buzzed about landing the job :-)

Nov 03 18:06:03 <Dan> Too late, that was my last one. I hate meds and only take them when I need them. I thought I was past getting these twinges, but sometimes I move the wrong way and the pain comes back.

Nov 03 18:06:04 * FlyingDragon misses beer

Nov 03 18:06:13 <FlyingDragon> We're doing chines tonight.

Nov 03 18:06:32 <SeanS> sipping on a bit of wine here

Nov 03 18:06:49 <FlyingDragon> I don't mind taking them when I'm in pain, but I don't want to become addicted to them.

Nov 03 18:06:51 <EML> Hippy -- no offense taken. Seeking the balance is part of the job.

Nov 03 18:07:09 <SeanS> cheap wine out of a box but what the hell. i cant taste the difference after a glass or two

Nov 03 18:07:10 * FlyingDragon . whinning, misses wine too

Nov 03 18:07:28 <EML> FLEET got started precisely because I wanted to know more about the Puppeteers and their worlds.

Nov 03 18:07:37 <Hippy> Why are you missing these things, Carol?

Nov 03 18:08:15 <FlyingDragon> I"m sober.

Nov 03 18:08:17 <Hippy> I am so looking forward to Fleet. Curse this stupid eye of mine!

Nov 03 18:08:25 <SeanS> because she has a stronger will than I ;)

Nov 03 18:08:28 <Dan> Ed, I've been known to do 50k words of world building for a 6k word count short story. But then I find world building fun.

Nov 03 18:08:33 <FlyingDragon> Heve been for almost two decades.

Nov 03 18:08:59 <FlyingDragon> Eml, do you ever participate in NaNoWriMo?

Nov 03 18:09:13 <Hippy> Well, I suppose you have your martial arts to make up for it. . .

Nov 03 18:09:40 <rimworlder> lensman - nice job on that site. I'll be spending some time there this weekend

Nov 03 18:09:53 <Hippy> Oh, I joined that this year. It's fun writing something you're deliberately not planning and don't give a warm ferret's motion about

Nov 03 18:10:06 <EML> Carol -- nope, no NaNoWriMo for me. I have a backlog of committed stuff demanding my attention.

Nov 03 18:10:59 <EML> Dan -- yes, world-building is fun. The problem is, it has no natural endpoint.

Nov 03 18:11:09 <Hippy> Does anyone here remember 'Logan's Run' the movie?

Nov 03 18:11:24 <rimworlder> eml - no natural end point, but something you can mine repeatedly for additional stories

Nov 03 18:11:38 <rimworlder> hippy sure - I went to the premiere for review work

Nov 03 18:11:59 <rimworlder> I panned it

Nov 03 18:12:09 <Hippy> Oh, good! Okay, remember the computer voice in that? That's how I think of Nessus's voice

Nov 03 18:12:12 <EML> Shuffling toward the door ... I'll see everyone(?) at the FLEET char next week.

Nov 03 18:12:23 <NickE> Good to see you Ed

Nov 03 18:12:24 <EML> oops. Fleet chaT.

Nov 03 18:12:25 <Hippy> Oh, it was pannable, pannable indeed

Nov 03 18:12:36 <rimworlder> do you mean 'Box' or the ethereal announcements voice?

Nov 03 18:12:42 <Dan> See you then, Ed!

Nov 03 18:12:43 <Hippy> 'Bye, Ed

Nov 03 18:12:47 <rimworlder> by ed

Nov 03 18:12:52 <EML> ttfn

Nov 03 18:12:53 <jim_stiles> by ed

Nov 03 18:13:03 * EML has quit (Quit: *g0ne*)

Nov 03 18:13:09 <Hippy> The announcements voice. Roscoe Lee Browne as Nessus? Egad. . .

Nov 03 18:13:25 <jim_stiles> ?

Nov 03 18:13:48 <Dan> Logan's Run, the only movie that I've ever seen that I liked more than the book.

Nov 03 18:14:06 <NickE> Funny, I quite liked the books

Nov 03 18:14:06 * Hippy is obsessed with determining the source voice for the 'thrilling contralto' of the Puppeteers

Nov 03 18:14:37 <Hippy> What the? Dan, how many painkillers were you on then???? :)

Nov 03 18:15:06 <NickE> well, yeah

Nov 03 18:15:28 <NickE> :-)

Nov 03 18:15:38 <NickE> Not to everyone's taste

Nov 03 18:16:04 <Dan> LOL, none. I thought that the shortcuts in the plot that the movie too actually improved the story. As I said, that's the only time I reached that conclusion.

Nov 03 18:16:31 <NickE> Look, I could never get on with Dick's novels. Short stories, yes, novels, not so much

Nov 03 18:16:57 <jim_stiles> who wrote Logan's Run (novel)

Nov 03 18:16:59 <NickE> Much prefferd Blade Runner as a film

Nov 03 18:17:00 <Dan> OK, being called to dinner. Back in a few minutes...

Nov 03 18:17:08 <NickE> l8r Dan

Nov 03 18:17:20 <NickE> William F Nolan

Nov 03 18:17:26 <Hippy> I agree, Nick. I don't understand the Dick fascination either. But 'Bladerunner' did well so we'll be getting 'The Preserving Machine' with Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes any tick of the clock

Nov 03 18:17:40 <Hippy> See you later, Dan

Nov 03 18:17:48 <FlyingDragon> l8r, Dan

Nov 03 18:18:07 <NickE> The Preserving Machine is a good collection of his shorts IMO

Nov 03 18:18:28 <Hippy> I suspect so. Surprisingly hard to find, though

Nov 03 18:21:26 <jim_stiles> does anyone remember Logan's Run the TV series?

Nov 03 18:21:33 <SeanS> yep

Nov 03 18:21:45 <Hippy> Yep

Nov 03 18:22:00 <jim_stiles> there is just something about mid-1970's SF TV series

Nov 03 18:22:26 <Hippy> Definitely! For one thing, the women were beautiful!

Nov 03 18:22:30 <rimworlder> hippy - if I had to pick a 'real-world' voice for nessus, it would be what's her name from 10,000 maniacs...

Nov 03 18:22:41 <SeanS> i had the movie recently

Nov 03 18:22:52 <Hippy> I've got 'The Fantastic Journey' on disk here somewhere and that is so nostalgic. . .

Nov 03 18:23:25 <FlyingDragon> Opera singer Marilyn Horne

Nov 03 18:23:25 <Hippy> Rim, Sean, I shall just go to the IMDB to check out who you mean. .

Nov 03 18:23:27 <rimworlder> I'm mired and hung-up on anything SF pre 90s...

Nov 03 18:23:50 <FlyingDragon>

Nov 03 18:24:10 <rimworlder> there's very little "new" I've been enjoying for the past couiple of decades - scalzi is the chief exception

Nov 03 18:24:14 <SeanS> i have salvage if someone wants it. talking about 70's tv

Nov 03 18:24:14 <FlyingDragon> I guess she isn't a contralto.

Nov 03 18:24:56 <rimworlder> flying - no - but I don't let little things like that interfere with my enjoyment :)

Nov 03 18:25:12 <FlyingDragon> Marian Anderson

Nov 03 18:26:21 <Hippy> Is 10 000 Maniacs actually a movie?

Nov 03 18:26:49 <rimworlder> hippy - a band

Nov 03 18:26:53 <Hippy> 'Salvage 1'? That's taking me back

Nov 03 18:27:00 <rimworlder> "these are the good old days"

Nov 03 18:27:16 <rimworlder> salvage 1 with, ummm andy griffiths?

Nov 03 18:27:17 <Hippy> Oh. Well, music, yes. ..I mean, I know its out there, but. . .

Nov 03 18:27:24 <SeanS> salvage is the movie, salvage 1 the short lived tv show i think

Nov 03 18:27:33 <Hippy> Andy Griffith indeed

Nov 03 18:27:46 <rimworlder> that movie/show revived interest in backyard spaceships for a bit

Nov 03 18:28:54 <rimworlder> anyone been impressed with more recent movie offerings? To start - I was disappointed with Mimzy...

Nov 03 18:28:58 <SeanS> heh, both were incredibly bad which is why mark and i like it. we seem to share an interest in BAD movies

Nov 03 18:29:34 <rimworlder> seans - then you're set for life cause they keep on churning them out

Nov 03 18:29:45 <SeanS> true

Nov 03 18:30:15 <rimworlder> last movie I felt I actually got my 12.50s worth was spiderman

Nov 03 18:30:39 <SeanS> i dont go to the movie theater anymore

Nov 03 18:32:22 <rimworlder> well, I keep on hoping it will be worth it

Nov 03 18:32:36 <rimworlder> maybe 3 - 4 times a year

Nov 03 18:33:27 <Hippy> Hmm. What did I last see that I thought was worth it. Probably 'Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix' No, wait. 'The Simpsons Movie'

Nov 03 18:33:48 <rimworlder> haven't seen simpsons and won't do the 'potter thing'

Nov 03 18:35:01 <jim_stiles> the potter movies are not that bad

Nov 03 18:35:24 <SeanS> i have enjoyed the potter movies

Nov 03 18:35:34 <Hippy> I agree with jim. They're not as good as the books, but then the books got to be unfilmably long

Nov 03 18:35:34 <NickE> generally pretty good. At least the lates cuts out all the crap from teh boo

Nov 03 18:35:37 <NickE> k

Nov 03 18:35:41 <NickE> book

Nov 03 18:35:42 <SeanS> i just enjoy them here instead of at the theater

Nov 03 18:35:55 <SeanS> i agree, nick

Nov 03 18:36:02 <NickE> Doesnt need to be in a cinema I agree

Nov 03 18:36:10 <SeanS> was glad to see nothing of the house elf crusade in the movies

Nov 03 18:36:45 <NickE> oh that was too much. That and the constant "Harry is angry" thing We get it OK!!!!!

Nov 03 18:36:49 <Hippy> Theatres are shocking these days. A bunch of troglodytes chatting away on their phones while they slob around as if the seats were beanbags and they were in the privacy of their own toilets

Nov 03 18:36:52 <SeanS> well, i have a good sized tv and a dolby digital sound system so i dont miss too much

Nov 03 18:37:18 <Dan> Back... Spinich quiche and baked potatos, YUM!

Nov 03 18:37:32 <NickE> Mmm

Nov 03 18:37:47 <Hippy> And here I am with cold tea. . .off to fix that now

Nov 03 18:37:48 <SeanS> i would much rather watch a movie here and drink beer or wine than go to the movie and pay out the ass for popcorn and a coke

Nov 03 18:37:52 <NickE> Thought the steak I had for tea was lovely too

Nov 03 18:38:17 * jim_stiles has quit ()

Nov 03 18:38:28 * jim_stiles (~jim_stiles@ has joined #knownspace

Nov 03 18:38:37 <SeanS> bye jim, hi jim

Nov 03 18:38:40 <rimworlder> true - the theater experience used to be much different. I the moment it changed for me: was watching elephant man and people were laughing at the movie...

Nov 03 18:38:43 <jim_stiles> what happened?

Nov 03 18:39:13 <SeanS> i can tell you it wasnt a net split

Nov 03 18:39:19 <Dan> lol

Nov 03 18:39:19 <rimworlder> jim - nessus just read the parts about what sex he was...

Nov 03 18:40:51 <jim_stiles> movies are good in the cinema when it is R or NC-17 and the cinema enforces the rules

Nov 03 18:40:53 <SeanS> julie tells me that the last movie i saw in a theater was we are marshall. phones everywhere and some woman came in and played with my hair. i had no idea who she was

Nov 03 18:40:56 <SeanS> never again

Nov 03 18:40:56 * FRED (~FRED@ has joined #knownspace

Nov 03 18:41:05 <Hippy> Howdy, Fred

Nov 03 18:41:12 <FRED> Hey Hip

Nov 03 18:41:14 <SeanS> howdy fred

Nov 03 18:41:20 <FRED> Sean

Nov 03 18:41:30 <FRED> You know, that's a scary entrance disclaimer

Nov 03 18:41:38 <SeanS> ?

Nov 03 18:41:45 <Dan> The last time I enjoyed being in a movie theater, we were watching Rocky Horror again.

Nov 03 18:41:47 <FRED> "Click here to allow this applet unrestriced access to your computer"

Nov 03 18:41:47 * senax (~senax@ has joined #knownspace

Nov 03 18:42:07 <SeanS> oh, thats not on my end

Nov 03 18:42:10 <NickE> Hi Fred

Nov 03 18:42:16 <FRED> Hey Nick

Nov 03 18:42:26 <Hippy> Welcome back, senax

Nov 03 18:42:29 <SeanS> i love rocky horror

Nov 03 18:42:42 <senax> Hi guys

Nov 03 18:42:46 <FRED> Haven't seen RHPS in years and years

Nov 03 18:42:47 <Dan> That's the applet at the website, isn't it?

Nov 03 18:42:49 <SeanS> thats actually windows bitching i think

Nov 03 18:42:52 <FRED> yes

Nov 03 18:42:53 <NickE> I used to do the whole Rocky thing :-)

Nov 03 18:42:59 <FRED> no windows here!

Nov 03 18:43:05 <FRED> it's via the website

Nov 03 18:43:20 <SeanS> talk to mark and euan then

Nov 03 18:43:23 <Dan> I sprung for the RH

Nov 03 18:43:30 <senax> I went once...too campy for my taste

Nov 03 18:43:33 <FRED> we did the Rocky thing in the 70s at the revival theater every Friday night and watched it spiral out of hand :)

Nov 03 18:43:40 <Dan> damn, wrong button again.

Nov 03 18:43:57 <FRED> Pretty soon people were throwing food and fire marshalls were standing by

Nov 03 18:44:31 <Hippy> I have to say that I've never been into the RHPS thing. I just. . .I lack the RHPS gene

Nov 03 18:44:45 <FRED> they did NOT like wildly overcrowed theaters with people holding up lit cigarette lighters

Nov 03 18:44:48 <Dan> I sprung for the RHPs/Shock Treatment double DVD set last year. The "making of" segments were as fun as the films were.

Nov 03 18:44:56 <SeanS> it was fun when i was 17. now i dont know

Nov 03 18:45:11 <FRED> Yeah, I was in college

Nov 03 18:45:15 * SeanS is about to turn 39

Nov 03 18:45:16 <FRED> lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng time ago

Nov 03 18:45:30 <jim_stiles> RHPS was banned by WVU by the time I went to college

Nov 03 18:45:43 <FRED> lol

Nov 03 18:46:04 <FRED> good to know they were working on the important priorities

Nov 03 18:46:34 <jim_stiles> they got tired of having the theatre trashed

Nov 03 18:46:39 <SeanS> yeah.. banned by someone that didnt like it over the masses that did

Nov 03 18:46:44 <FlyingDragon> Dan, you didn't WATCH the Shock Treatment did you????? The HORRORS!!!

Nov 03 18:46:51 <FRED> yeah

Nov 03 18:46:57 <FRED> I watched ST once

Nov 03 18:47:05 <FRED> much as I love Jessica Harper . . .

Nov 03 18:47:25 <FRED> I had to go watch PHANTOM OF THE PARADISE to wash Shock Treatment out of my brain

Nov 03 18:47:28 <FlyingDragon> Dred, YOU wasted tow hours of your time on SHOCK TREATMENT TOO???? Did no one WARN YOU???????

Nov 03 18:47:37 <Dan> A buddy of mine once gifted me with a VHS copy of Rocky Horror that had subtitles in Japanese. That was a hoot!

Nov 03 18:47:39 <FRED> Nope

Nov 03 18:47:43 <FRED> No warning

Nov 03 18:47:48 <FRED> We didn't know

Nov 03 18:47:54 <FlyingDragon> Dan, bet that was interesting.

Nov 03 18:48:02 <FlyingDragon> I'm so sorry. No one warned me.

Nov 03 18:48:02 <Dan> It was.

Nov 03 18:48:09 <Hippy> Good ol' Phantom of the Paradise. One of the first dozen DVDs I ever bought

Nov 03 18:48:26 <FRED> I got the Phantompalooza DVD recently

Nov 03 18:48:31 <FRED> video of the convention

Nov 03 18:48:44 <NickE> I do know about Shock Treatment..enough not to have ever seen it

Nov 03 18:48:45 <rimworlder> cathcving up here - yes - RHPS at the theater was great : off to eat my meal - bbs

Nov 03 18:48:54 <Dan> That was another movie that I loved. Phantom...

Nov 03 18:48:58 <FlyingDragon> I love RHPS too. Used to get dressed up. In Houston, no fun. They ritually rape a virgin before the show.

Nov 03 18:49:11 <FlyingDragon> Bye, Rim

Nov 03 18:49:15 <Hippy> 'Conventions appeal to the two worst aspects of American nature. They love labelling things and they are the masters of small talk.'

Nov 03 18:49:30 <rimworlder> lol - when I come back I'll tell you about the picture my dad used to keep on hiw desk at work...

Nov 03 18:49:30 <NickE> I did teh RHPS *and* teh RHS live performances. 2 differnt sets of RH ettiquette required

Nov 03 18:49:48 <Hippy> That's not an exzct quote, but it was Bev Bevan, the drummer for the Electric Light Orchestra, who said it

Nov 03 18:49:57 <jim_stiles> hippy, what are wrong with conventions?

Nov 03 18:50:11 <FlyingDragon> NickE, tell us about it! (The Live performances, that is.)

Nov 03 18:50:36 <Dan> I remember wearing out the cassettes of the RHPS and POTP movies.

Nov 03 18:51:06 <Dan> Soundtracts of the music for the movies, that is.

Nov 03 18:51:18 <jim_stiles> Dan, it is also not difficult to wear out DVDs

Nov 03 18:51:29 <Hippy> Jim, I didn't think anything was wrong with them, but a 'Phantom of the Paradise' convention is pushing the limit. . .

Nov 03 18:51:42 <NickE> Ah.. that was something else. It's still running, though not with the original company

Nov 03 18:52:02 <FRED> the phantom convention is a hoot

Nov 03 18:52:09 <NickE> Same deal, but of course you had feedback off the performers

Nov 03 18:52:12 <FRED> the actors go, and perform live on stage

Nov 03 18:52:24 <NickE> So every one was different

Nov 03 18:52:47 <FRED>

Nov 03 18:52:52 <NickE> Got to hang out with some of the real hardcore fans and crew in Oxford one time

Nov 03 18:53:08 <NickE> Well, I knoew the fans anyway, we travelled around

Nov 03 18:53:48 <NickE> Oxford, posh university town was by far the roughest and outta control crowd I'd ever seen at RHS

Nov 03 18:54:07 <NickE> closest it ever came to stopping the performance

Nov 03 18:54:10 <Hippy> Well, POTP is a good movie, but. . .

Nov 03 18:54:26 <NickE> The crew agreed

Nov 03 18:54:34 <FRED> be careful where you stick that but!

Nov 03 18:56:08 <Dan> Anyone ever have the POTP novelization of the film?

Nov 03 18:56:48 <Hippy> No. But I now know what's been missing in my life :)

Nov 03 18:56:49 <FRED> yep

Nov 03 18:56:59 <FRED>

Nov 03 18:57:09 <FRED> that gives a pretty good idea of what goes on

Nov 03 18:57:41 <Dan> Very odd book, but it had a lot of detail that never saw the movie screen.

Nov 03 18:58:05 <FRED> I've yet to read it. Got it a few months ago. Been told about it though (which is why I got it).

Nov 03 18:58:44 <FRED> man, I gotta fire up iTunes and have the Phantom soundtrack in the BG here :)

Nov 03 18:58:49 <Dan> I got my copy before I had a chance to see the film.

Nov 03 18:59:18 <Hippy> Fred, that's impressive

Nov 03 18:59:51 <FRED> Hey, they tore down my college bar this weekend

Nov 03 18:59:53 <FRED> named

Nov 03 18:59:57 <FRED> (wait for it)

Nov 03 19:00:02 <FRED> The Bandersnatch

Nov 03 19:00:06 <NickE> Nooo!

Nov 03 19:00:10 <senax> Bummer.

Nov 03 19:00:12 <FRED> sniffle

Nov 03 19:00:18 <Hippy> God damn them!!

Nov 03 19:00:25 <Hippy> Who did the novelisation?

Nov 03 19:00:47 <FRED> The official story was that it was named after Alice in Wonderland, but we all were sure it was obNiven

Nov 03 19:01:16 <Dan> Bjarne Rostaing.

Nov 03 19:01:38 <FRED> oh, yeah, him

Nov 03 19:01:45 <FRED> (rolls eyes)

Nov 03 19:02:04 <Hippy> Ah. . . Well, I shall have to look him...her...must be a Puppeteer...up

Nov 03 19:02:35 <FRED> ack, just googled this:

Nov 03 19:02:36 <Dan> LOL, and no, that wasn't from memory. My shelves of movie and TV books is here in the same room.

Nov 03 19:02:39 <FRED> "The cult classic Phantom of the Paradise has a notoriously bad novelization; not only did it cut out every single supernatural element (including the Deal With The Devil that the film's plot centers on), it threw the characterization in a shredder. A prime example is the character of Phoenix, the Phantom's love interest: in the movie, she's a sweet, innocent Idol Singer; in the novelization, her first appearance sees her come out on stage topless and sing abou

Nov 03 19:06:48 <FRED> oh, man, did I kill the chat? again? :(

Nov 03 19:07:07 <jim_stiles> no, i am still here

Nov 03 19:07:17 <NickE> me too for now

Nov 03 19:07:18 <Dan> No, we were waiting for the rest of the quote.

Nov 03 19:07:34 <Hippy> Sorry, distracted by email

Nov 03 19:07:34 <FlyingDragon> Bringing up an old theme: Marian Anderson is a famous contralto. Nesssus would sound like her.

Nov 03 19:08:43 <SeanS> and i removed the flood protection, so you are good, fred

Nov 03 19:08:44 <jim_stiles> I was under the impression that Marian Anderson was desceased. Do you know of a living opera contralto?

Nov 03 19:08:56 <Hippy> Yes, I had a look at the wikipedia entry. I only wish they'd had links to speaking-type actresses we could compare to.

Nov 03 19:08:58 <FlyingDragon> Oh, you want a LIVING person!!!!

Nov 03 19:09:05 <Hippy> If Larry is on next week we can ask him

Nov 03 19:09:15 <FRED> Reading Fleet of Worlds, I find myself wondering if all the Puppeteers sound alike in their native tongues as well

Nov 03 19:09:37 <SeanS> no spoilers... i dont have a copy yet

Nov 03 19:09:45 <FRED> nope

Nov 03 19:09:45 <Hippy> Nor me.

Nov 03 19:10:10 <jim_stiles> That kills my question.

Nov 03 19:10:16 <FRED> heh

Nov 03 19:10:28 <SeanS> spoilers are for next saturday... if i dont have it read, i wont be in here

Nov 03 19:10:41 <FRED> I'm only 1/4 of the way in, so I may well not have had an answer for you anyway

Nov 03 19:10:47 <Hippy> Um, the Puppeteer in 'At The Core' says something like 'Doubtless we had the same English teacher' so that explains why they sound the same. In their native tongue they probably sound as different as any tow humans

Nov 03 19:11:06 <FRED> Likely

Nov 03 19:11:21 <FRED> Hard for me to shake the "Puppeteers all sound like Nessus" mindset though

Nov 03 19:12:11 <FRED> "Viscous, thick, and the deepest reds and purples, the Contralto voice suggests Port wine."

Nov 03 19:12:32 <rimworlder> back from dinner - but I have to go. I'll try and be on next week. nice talking with you folks

Nov 03 19:12:46 * rimworlder has quit (Quit: *g0ne*)

Nov 03 19:12:51 <FRED> "Ewa Podles claims to be the only true contralto in the world."

Nov 03 19:12:51 <jim_stiles> Non-Spoiler Question: Would there be gay Puppeteers? Why or why not?

Nov 03 19:12:56 <Hippy> N - that was quick

Nov 03 19:12:57 <SeanS> server is always running

Nov 03 19:13:02 <FRED> boy, THAT limits our casting choices

Nov 03 19:13:19 <FRED> All Puppeteers are gay

Nov 03 19:13:48 <Hippy> They have sex outside their species! They're bestial, at best

Nov 03 19:13:52 <FRED> They have 2 kinds of male, and use a helpless third species to implant their seed into

Nov 03 19:13:59 <Hippy> Or zoophilous, I should say

Nov 03 19:14:18 <Hippy> Much like gays on Eartth :)

Nov 03 19:14:34 <FlyingDragon> All men are members of their own species?

Nov 03 19:14:40 <FlyingDragon> That would explain a lot.

Nov 03 19:14:40 * Hippy waits to be beaten to death for such a politically incorrect statement

Nov 03 19:14:59 * FlyingDragon breaths fire at Hippy, just on principle.

Nov 03 19:15:01 <FRED> lol

Nov 03 19:15:20 <jim_stiles> In RW, Nessus seems to say that all Puppeteer sex is procreational.

Nov 03 19:15:58 <FRED> Okay, Lady and Gentlemen

Nov 03 19:16:03 <FRED> I present to you

Nov 03 19:16:18 <FRED> The actual voice of the one who claims to be the only living contralto

Nov 03 19:16:24 <FRED>

Nov 03 19:16:30 <Hippy> He does say that they only have one method of contaception -abstinence, which causes psychological problems as it does with most species

Nov 03 19:16:51 <FlyingDragon> That doesn't make any sence to me. Unless they BOTH have sex with the "female" no baby will result. So, the different male and female puppeteers each have sex with certain "female" puppetteers, who will never get PG, because they never got the other half of the genitic material.

Nov 03 19:16:53 * Hippy straps on the headphones

Nov 03 19:17:02 <FRED> agreed Carol

Nov 03 19:17:11 <FRED> seems like they don't engage in 2 way sex

Nov 03 19:17:48 <FlyingDragon> I should point that out to Larry. I'm the one who pointed out to him that is puppeters ATE their way out, they couldn't be herbivores, but merely vegearian

Nov 03 19:18:28 <Hippy> Egad. If Nessus talks like this woman, gag him!

Nov 03 19:18:30 <FRED> Well, the whole 'eat the host' idea is one Louis comes up with

Nov 03 19:18:34 <SeanS> vegan zombie: Graaaaiiiiiinnnnnssss

Nov 03 19:18:43 <FRED> It's not the narrator saying it

Nov 03 19:19:07 <FlyingDragon> Yes, I think Loius is WRONG which is why we wrote Many Kinds of Loving.

Nov 03 19:19:37 <FRED> Heck, Louis doesn't even know how to pronounce his own name :)

Nov 03 19:20:35 <Hippy> Is MKOL still on the website? It used to be there in the old incarnation but I haven't seen it in a while

Nov 03 19:20:50 <FlyingDragon> Ewa Podles

Nov 03 19:20:50 <FlyingDragon> Ewa Podles

Nov 03 19:20:50 <FlyingDragon> I don't post MKOL, I mail it.

Nov 03 19:21:09 <SeanS> i would say it is available to you if you ask politely

Nov 03 19:21:22 <FlyingDragon> My paranoid Rocket scientist husband doesn't want it actually POSTED, but doesn't mind me mailing it to people who swear they are 21,

Nov 03 19:21:34 * Hippy unstraps headphones. This is. . .I'd sooner eat my way out of a symbiont

Nov 03 19:21:36 <FlyingDragon> Ewa Podles, does she speak English?

Nov 03 19:22:02 <FRED> she's polish

Nov 03 19:22:12 <FRED> if she does I suspect it's accented

Nov 03 19:22:19 <FRED>

Nov 03 19:22:20 <Hippy> May I please have a copy of MKOL, sir?

Nov 03 19:22:33 <jim_stiles> some actors can phonetically fake English

Nov 03 19:22:35 <SeanS> dont ask me.. ask the author

Nov 03 19:22:37 <FRED> you have to make a specific request stating your age

Nov 03 19:22:49 <FRED> WARNING!!! This story is very sexually orientated, so is not suitable for general distribution. Please use the link to email the authors requesting a copy of the story and also stating clearly in the message that you are 21 years old or older, (yes, its that explicit :-))

Nov 03 19:22:51 <SeanS> she is in the room with you

Nov 03 19:22:57 <FlyingDragon> Yes, Fred, that is right. Writen requests with age statement.

Nov 03 19:23:06 <FRED>

Nov 03 19:23:10 <FRED> link at that url

Nov 03 19:23:26 <FlyingDragon> Hippy, write to me and I'll send you the story. Then I have your email address.

Nov 03 19:23:38 <Hippy> Okay. Thank you muchly

Nov 03 19:23:46 <SeanS> its worth it

Nov 03 19:23:50 <FlyingDragon> I'm a ma'am, but I won't make you do push ups for calling me sir.

Nov 03 19:23:57 <FlyingDragon> Sean, you enjoyed it????

Nov 03 19:24:03 <SeanS> i loved it

Nov 03 19:24:07 <FlyingDragon> :-)

Nov 03 19:24:18 * FlyingDragon basks in the glow of praise

Nov 03 19:24:20 <FRED> I have no idea if SINGING in a contralto means in any way that you SPEAK in one

Nov 03 19:24:39 <FlyingDragon> A puppeteers voice sounds like they are singing when speaking in puppeteer.

Nov 03 19:24:45 <FRED> I mean, she might be like Jim Nabors

Nov 03 19:24:58 <FlyingDragon> Look, you don't hav eto like that song to enjoy a contralto's voice.

Nov 03 19:25:15 * FlyingDragon is still basking in AFTERGLOW!!!!

Nov 03 19:25:19 <SeanS> i think i have a copy of it somewhere. not sure with so many winblows to linux stuff

Nov 03 19:25:28 <SeanS> i am sure i can get another copy

Nov 03 19:25:42 <jim_stiles> What was wrong with the song?

Nov 03 19:25:55 <FRED> I didn't say anything was

Nov 03 19:26:07 <Hippy> I'm not a big opera fan, I'm afraid

Nov 03 19:26:17 <FRED> I said "I have no idea if SINGING in a contralto means in any way that you SPEAK in one"

Nov 03 19:26:22 <FlyingDragon> I thougth one of you guys was hating the song, ripping off the headphones?

Nov 03 19:26:39 <FRED> oh

Nov 03 19:26:42 <FRED> hippy

Nov 03 19:26:46 <Hippy> That was me, the Philistine from the Antipodes

Nov 03 19:26:57 <FlyingDragon> I was stunned to notice in the words that she was singing English. Opera singers LOVE to contort the ponunciation of words for a richer purer tone.

Nov 03 19:27:20 <FRED> "Hippy unstraps headphones. This is. . .I'd sooner eat my way out of a symbiont"

Nov 03 19:27:31 <senax> She was singing English? I thought that was a translation I was seeing!

Nov 03 19:27:31 <FlyingDragon> Yup.

Nov 03 19:27:42 <FRED> that was english????

Nov 03 19:27:42 <FlyingDragon> That was English.

Nov 03 19:28:01 <jim_stiles> The composer Purcell was English.

Nov 03 19:28:04 <FlyingDragon> If you followed the singing when what was shown on the screen, you could JUST recognise the words.

Nov 03 19:28:07 <Hippy> Yes, yes. I'm a peasnt, okay? If that was English, I'm - no, I shall listen to it again

Nov 03 19:28:11 <FRED> Tanj you carol, you're going to make me listen to that again

Nov 03 19:28:16 <FlyingDragon> LOL

Nov 03 19:28:18 <senax> I didn't recognize a single word, and I listened to about 90% of it.

Nov 03 19:28:33 <SeanS> carol, julie is now very inquisitive about MKOL. can you shoot me a copy?

Nov 03 19:28:39 <senax> Well, "listened" would be an exaggeration.

Nov 03 19:28:43 <FlyingDragon> Yup. She is over 21 right?

Nov 03 19:28:57 <SeanS> she wants me to tell you that she is 17

Nov 03 19:29:16 <Hippy> Well, I'll be buttered on both sides, it IS English

Nov 03 19:29:17 <FRED> "Thy hand belinda dark"

Nov 03 19:29:24 <FRED> that's english?

Nov 03 19:30:03 <Hippy> Well, it's Operenglish

Nov 03 19:30:12 <FlyingDragon> Right, Sean. I know better. Unless she graduated college at 12, she is older than that.

Nov 03 19:30:35 <FlyingDragon> Hippy, shoot me your email.

Nov 03 19:30:36 * Hippy is impressed with the 22 year age difference

Nov 03 19:30:45 <SeanS> she revises her statement to say she is 29 and holding

Nov 03 19:30:56 <Hippy> Certianly: it's

Nov 03 19:30:57 <FlyingDragon> Okay, but I am PROUD of my age!!!!

Nov 03 19:31:10 <NickE> Well, it's nearly half 11 and Nick is getting sleepy

Nov 03 19:31:29 <Hippy> I'm over 21, too. Twice and one seventh over it

Nov 03 19:31:32 <jim_stiles> where is Nick at?

Nov 03 19:31:36 <NickE> UK

Nov 03 19:32:17 <Hippy> Still in Bilbo-on-Stilton or wherever it was? Some lengthy name, anyway?

Nov 03 19:32:30 <NickE> Not sure wher my copy of MKOL is at. I liked it, though it is indeed way more explicit that anything Larry has written

Nov 03 19:32:50 <FlyingDragon> Yes, but still CLEAN, no rape, no potty humor, no violence.

Nov 03 19:32:52 <NickE> Bloxham...not exactlya jaw breaker

Nov 03 19:32:55 <FRED> more so than Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex?

Nov 03 19:33:02 <NickE> Oh yes

Nov 03 19:33:25 <FlyingDragon> We talka botu what goes where, but you do still ahve to use your imagination.

Nov 03 19:33:36 <Hippy> Well, I had the 'B' right and I might be thinking of Mark

Nov 03 19:33:49 <NickE> Yup all consensual (thats what I hate about so much Slash stuff, it *aint* and thats turn on???!)

Nov 03 19:33:50 <SeanS> it is a very good story fan ficktion wise

Nov 03 19:34:08 <FRED> no ripping her open from crotch to sternum, gutting her like a trout?

Nov 03 19:34:15 <Dan> lol

Nov 03 19:34:20 * FlyingDragon basks in more of that praise glow!!!

Nov 03 19:34:22 <NickE> OK, Lary was more explicit :-)

Nov 03 19:34:22 <SeanS> no... just a bit of hmming

Nov 03 19:34:25 <jim_stiles> Most of the Slash that I have read was consensual

Nov 03 19:34:42 <FlyingDragon> Fred, none of that Impalling her with his rod stuff.

Nov 03 19:34:48 <SeanS> if i remember right

Nov 03 19:34:59 <FRED> My girlfriend always liked the trout gutting scene

Nov 03 19:35:08 <FRED> which made me worry I was doing something wrong

Nov 03 19:35:22 <FlyingDragon> Ah, in slash it is often rape?

Nov 03 19:35:25 <NickE> Genearally, but I've unfirtunately come across a fair bit that wasnt. Not that I trawl Slash sites!

Nov 03 19:35:39 <Hippy> "Lastly, he'd blow off the top of her head.' They don't write 'em like that anymore

Nov 03 19:35:52 <FRED> Oh, I got a link to an illustrated (by Curt Swan!!) version of Man of Steel WoK

Nov 03 19:36:01 <SeanS> heh, checked my spam earlier and apparentlly my gf hates me because i dont use some drug.

Nov 03 19:36:06 * growler (~growler@ has joined #knownspace

Nov 03 19:36:10 <FlyingDragon> For Good clean fun, read XXXenophile, by Phil Folio. Really good. I call it marital aids.

Nov 03 19:36:10 <NickE> Violent, yeah

Nov 03 19:36:13 <SeanS> welcome Euan

Nov 03 19:36:17 <Dan> Hiya Growler.

Nov 03 19:36:22 <jim_stiles> None of the Stargate SG-1 G/G that I have seen involved rape?

Nov 03 19:36:26 <growler> hi

Nov 03 19:36:27 <FRED> And I'm shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, to learn that Lana Lang is NOT a natural redhead!

Nov 03 19:36:30 <NickE> I checked some of that out on your recomendation

Nov 03 19:36:32 <Hippy> G'day, growler

Nov 03 19:36:37 <growler> There was an implication of it

Nov 03 19:36:51 <NickE> WAs good and like you say, happy porn as it were

Nov 03 19:37:02 <growler> but you'd have to seiously read between thel ines - involving Sam and the Replicators

Nov 03 19:37:27 <Dan> Sounds like a good name for a band.

Nov 03 19:37:43 <NickE> heh

Nov 03 19:37:49 <NickE> Hey Euan

Nov 03 19:37:51 <FRED> Is it just me, or would "Sam and the Replicators" be an excellent name for a rock band?

Nov 03 19:38:00 <FRED> grr, dan

Nov 03 19:38:02 <SeanS> growler, you are a big mac person, right?

Nov 03 19:38:17 <growler> no, not really. I don't llike OS X - I run windows on my mac

Nov 03 19:38:20 <Dan> Great minds, 'eh Fred?

Nov 03 19:38:22 <FRED> I thought Growler preferred burger king

Nov 03 19:38:36 <SeanS> yeah, that looked stupid when i saw it

Nov 03 19:38:47 <FRED> :)

Nov 03 19:38:57 <Hippy> He pronoounces it Brgr Kng, though

Nov 03 19:38:58 <SeanS> i have OS X for pc coming down and was going to play with it.

Nov 03 19:38:59 <growler> hell no - burger king foodl ooks like fat laden vileness to me

Nov 03 19:39:12 <FRED> OSX is getting worse and worse

Nov 03 19:39:21 <FRED> 10.4.10 broke LOTS of stuff

Nov 03 19:39:27 <FRED> Leopard broke lots more

Nov 03 19:39:30 <Dan> Fred, what's worse, I beat you to that pun with one hand tied to my ribs.

Nov 03 19:39:31 <SeanS> 10.4.6

Nov 03 19:40:08 <FRED> I probably won't be going to Leopard at all, unless it's on an external or something

Nov 03 19:40:13 <FRED> or a new machine

Nov 03 19:40:13 <SeanS> was going to put it on one of my test pc's but from that response... why should i bother

Nov 03 19:40:30 <FlyingDragon> Something went so far over my head I didn't even see it.

Nov 03 19:40:51 <FRED> you were busy basquing

Nov 03 19:40:52 <Hippy> I was squinting upwards myself

Nov 03 19:41:04 <SeanS> sorry

Nov 03 19:41:12 <growler> I just don't like how hard it makes doing things - seems fine if you're a person who likes being lead by the nose. But I want more control and although Darwin and OS X give you control it's not made easy. It's like there's two sides to it - the easy bit and the hard bit, but not what I want - the useful middle ground.

Nov 03 19:41:13 <FlyingDragon> Reading my story already????

Nov 03 19:41:30 <FRED> It might be okay for a fresh start, Sean, but too much legacy stuff stopped working

Nov 03 19:41:40 <FRED> I need my programs more than I need a new OS

Nov 03 19:41:50 <SeanS> ok... i will stick with suse llinux then

Nov 03 19:41:54 <growler> Always install OS's frsh. Gives you practice with your data backup, makes it work properly

Nov 03 19:42:12 <Hippy> I'm afraid it hasn't got here yet. Stand by while I slap Outlook around a bit

Nov 03 19:42:25 <growler> Hey Dan, if you use Mozilla you can install Chatzilla as ap lugin and your browser will then handle irc:// links

Nov 03 19:42:51 <Hippy> Ah, there it is. Thanks, Carol, I shall peruse it later

Nov 03 19:42:53 <SeanS> i will still install it on a test pc just to play

Nov 03 19:42:55 <NickE> Right you lovely people, I'm off to bed. Been fun as always. Nice to see the chat buzzing along again

Nov 03 19:42:55 <growler> Which I was going to do but the knownspace page doesn't have the address as aclcickable link.

Nov 03 19:43:10 <FRED> if you define 'work properly' as 'programs don't run and printers don't print, but at least they fixed safari'

Nov 03 19:43:14 <senax> I never even upgraded to Tiger...the only part that looked worthwhile to me was the updated Java SDK.

Nov 03 19:43:26 <FRED> I wish I'd stopped one version back

Nov 03 19:43:30 <NickE> Night

Nov 03 19:43:31 <growler> I will be going to leopard on my macbook just so I hjave the Bluetiooth A2DP sound option.

Nov 03 19:43:36 <SeanS> night nick

Nov 03 19:43:38 <FRED> nick night

Nov 03 19:43:43 <senax> Bye nick

Nov 03 19:43:49 <NickE> TTFNfolks

Nov 03 19:43:58 <Hippy> Nighty-night, Nick

Nov 03 19:44:12 * NickE has quit ()

Nov 03 19:44:13 <FlyingDragon> night, nick

Nov 03 19:44:19 <FRED> 2 L8

Nov 03 19:44:27 <FlyingDragon> yup.

Nov 03 19:44:29 <SeanS> firestone just keeps talking up the mac OS so i thought i would see what it looked like

Nov 03 19:44:35 <growler> It's taken me a week, but I've got my new web server all tickety boo.

Nov 03 19:44:56 <FRED> is that good?

Nov 03 19:44:58 <senax> I'm usually happy to stay with the status quo, as long as it works well...and as long as I don't get left _too_ far behind.

Nov 03 19:45:31 <FRED> I wait 20,000 years for the core explosion to start glowing through the dust clouds, and make a run for it

Nov 03 19:45:38 <SeanS> just on a test pc. i run suse linux on about everything else

Nov 03 19:46:01 * senax is still moving some software off DEC Alphas. Get off my lawn you Leopard/Vista kids!

Nov 03 19:46:14 <Dan> lol

Nov 03 19:46:50 <SeanS> amazingly, the irc server runs on a windows pc

Nov 03 19:46:57 * Hippy gets of senax's lawn for his morning's ablutions

Nov 03 19:47:48 * senax peeks through the window blinds and racks the slide of his shotgun.

Nov 03 19:47:59 <SeanS> heh

Nov 03 19:48:11 <FRED> I could have used you on Halloween

Nov 03 19:48:27 <FRED> idiot kids decided to have a bonfire in the alley behind my house

Nov 03 19:48:34 <FRED> fire department showed up

Nov 03 19:48:36 <senax> I was dead on Halloween. So was my wife.

Nov 03 19:48:43 * Hippy returned

Nov 03 19:48:48 <FlyingDragon> Too much excitement.

Nov 03 19:48:53 <FRED> but about 10 they drove up again to see if they could restart it

Nov 03 19:48:59 <FlyingDragon> What do you mean, dead, senax?

Nov 03 19:49:05 <senax> We were dressed as zombies...last time I do that. Greasepaint--ugh!

Nov 03 19:49:11 <FRED> I was actively hopig for a neighbor to open fire on them

Nov 03 19:49:52 <SeanS> i was invited to a rabbit hunt tomorrow but i really need to cut some firewood instead

Nov 03 19:50:19 <FlyingDragon> Sean, you heat your house wiht firewood? My brother does too.

Nov 03 19:50:21 <Hippy> Good God, it's 10:47 here. Time I got dressed, I think. Yes. . .Sunday notwithstanding.

Nov 03 19:50:21 <FRED> we feed our rabbits and treat them like pets, even though i'

Nov 03 19:50:27 <FRED> it's a crime here now

Nov 03 19:50:37 * Hippy afk for about twenty minutes. I shall catch up upon my return

Nov 03 19:50:39 <growler> Yeah, ticekty boo is colloqial for 'all good' here

Nov 03 19:50:44 <senax> My next door neighbor has fenced off 1/3 of his yard to keep rabbits in...I don't know if they're pets or livestock though.

Nov 03 19:50:47 <FRED> ah, good

Nov 03 19:51:03 <FRED> we have wild rabbits that like to feed outside Mom's bedroom window

Nov 03 19:51:07 <senax> Neighbor is Vietnamese...hmm...

Nov 03 19:51:10 <FRED> so we toss 'em apples and stuff

Nov 03 19:51:15 <SeanS> i have a woodstove that i will not use again till it has its own chimney

Nov 03 19:51:44 <SeanS> doesnt draw enough

Nov 03 19:52:03 <SeanS> so i will use the fireplace this year

Nov 03 19:52:33 <Dan> We feed all sorts of wild animals here. We even feed the deer, but mostly to keep them from trying to climb into the squrill feeder.

Nov 03 19:53:03 <FRED> our ijiot governor shoved through a bill, it's now a crime to feed anything but birds and tree squirrels

Nov 03 19:53:10 <senax> Time for me to go again...shooting pool with my son and a friend.

Nov 03 19:53:17 <senax> See you all later!

Nov 03 19:53:22 <FlyingDragon> Fred, how weird

Nov 03 19:53:28 <FlyingDragon> bye, senax

Nov 03 19:53:29 <Dan> See you later, senax.

Nov 03 19:53:35 <FRED> yes, carol

Nov 03 19:53:36 * senax (~senax@24.252.63.XXX) has left #knownspace

Nov 03 19:53:45 <FRED> it seems that in Tucson, 100 miles away

Nov 03 19:53:56 <FRED> some idiot on a golf course got bitten by a coyote

Nov 03 19:53:56 <SeanS> fred, so putting out the same food for multiple animals is now illegal?

Nov 03 19:54:00 <FRED> yes

Nov 03 19:54:16 <FRED> or squirrels that aren't tree squirrels, like I'd know the differnce

Nov 03 19:54:17 <FlyingDragon> I used to feed the opossums

Nov 03 19:54:27 <FlyingDragon> I would give them my leftovers from dinner

Nov 03 19:54:36 <FRED> the governors reaction was to make it a crime for my mom to toss an apple to the bunnies

Nov 03 19:54:47 <jim_stiles> it is always bad to feed animals

Nov 03 19:55:05 <FlyingDragon> "A fed bunny is a dead bunny."

Nov 03 19:55:13 <FRED> they live in our yard

Nov 03 19:55:21 <Dan> Jim, not if you want to use them for food later.

Nov 03 19:55:21 <SeanS> well, i hunt. i put out piles of corn to bring the deer in so i can shoot them off the porch

Nov 03 19:55:24 <FRED> it's not like we're luring them in from the woods

Nov 03 19:55:29 <FRED> they're urban bunnies

Nov 03 19:55:48 <jim_stiles> OK, Dan if they are domesticated that is different

Nov 03 19:56:19 <FlyingDragon> Sean, my brother spent YEARS never having to buy meat because he hunted for his meat.

Nov 03 19:56:25 <FRED> they claim that feeding bunnies will attract large predatory animals to feed on them

Nov 03 19:56:29 <Dan> The woods hehe start roughly 20 yards from my back door.

Nov 03 19:56:35 <Dan> here

Nov 03 19:56:36 <SeanS> anything i kill, i eat

Nov 03 19:56:42 <FRED> like I'm gonna attract mountain lions

Nov 03 19:57:03 <SeanS> i am a member of PETA: people eating tasty animals

Nov 03 19:57:28 <Dan> :)

Nov 03 19:57:59 <FlyingDragon> :-) I've heard wild pig is MUCH better than the stuff you buy in stores.

Nov 03 19:58:08 <SeanS> it is

Nov 03 19:58:16 <FRED> tell you what -- I'll feed the bunnies, and you can have the mountain lions when they come

Nov 03 19:58:22 <Dan> It can be, depends on their diet.

Nov 03 19:58:36 <FRED> note that there is NO case on record of this EVER happening

Nov 03 19:58:50 <Dan> Too many acorns can make the meat bitter.

Nov 03 19:59:10 <FRED> oh, and we put in an anti beastiality law at the same time

Nov 03 19:59:37 <FRED> Mesa fire chief tried to have sex with his neighbor's sheep, and they realized they didn't have anything to charge him with

Nov 03 19:59:49 <Dan> LOL!!!!!!

Nov 03 19:59:58 <FRED> I'm totally serious

Nov 03 20:00:01 <FRED> :\

Nov 03 20:00:17 <jim_stiles> WV did not have rules against bestality until the 1980's

Nov 03 20:00:38 <growler> Unless you specifically removed them there was probably a ye olde law about bothering live sotck he could have been charged with

Nov 03 20:00:48 <growler> Every olde time farming community has them

Nov 03 20:01:18 <FRED> they got rid of those laws a couple decades ago

Nov 03 20:01:23 <FRED> had to put it back in

Nov 03 20:01:43 <FlyingDragon> Dan, oh. Fred, didn't he know that stuff like that is against the bible, evenif it is not actually illegal?????

Nov 03 20:02:15 <FRED> "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's ass?"

Nov 03 20:02:18 <Dan> Fred, sounds like you need to have a law passed requiring politicians to be able to pass an IQ test.

Nov 03 20:02:22 <FRED> this was a sheep though

Nov 03 20:02:35 <FRED> Dan, absolutely

Nov 03 20:03:12 <FlyingDragon> I would like politicians to be at least smarter than average.

Nov 03 20:03:28 <FRED> then they probably wouldn't be politicians

Nov 03 20:03:31 <FlyingDragon> Family is home from biking. We're going to to dinner soon.

Nov 03 20:03:43 <FRED> yeah, I promised mom I'd go to the store

Nov 03 20:03:52 <FRED> cupboard is sort of bear

Nov 03 20:03:55 <Dan> Time to refill my water glass.

Nov 03 20:03:56 <FRED> mmmm, bear . . .

Nov 03 20:04:29 * FRED is now known as Fred_afk_bbl

Nov 03 20:05:47 <jim_stiles> I can change color

Nov 03 20:07:29 <SeanS> cool

Nov 03 20:07:32 <jim_stiles> the bible does have rules against zoophilia

Nov 03 20:07:51 <jim_stiles> underscore

Nov 03 20:08:22 <jim_stiles> can I ask a FOW question?

Nov 03 20:08:30 <FlyingDragon> Jim, the chameleon.

Nov 03 20:08:47 <SeanS> not to me... havent read it

Nov 03 20:08:53 <jim_stiles> OK

Nov 03 20:09:00 <SeanS> and i would prefer no spoilers

Nov 03 20:09:15 <FlyingDragon> Have it, havn'et finished it.

Nov 03 20:09:40 <SeanS> lensman has asked for a fleet of worlds chat next saturday

Nov 03 20:09:50 <jim_stiles> OK

Nov 03 20:11:20 <SeanS> if i havent read it by then, i will not be here but have fun

Nov 03 20:12:04 <SeanS> i know that the co author ed lerner will be there to answer questions

Nov 03 20:12:36 <jim_stiles> has Larry been around today?

Nov 03 20:12:49 <SeanS> no

Nov 03 20:13:11 <SeanS> havent seen larry in here for the past few months

Nov 03 20:14:04 <SeanS> but ed has been in frequently

Nov 03 20:17:07 <FlyingDragon> Gonna dress for dinner. I'm still in my workout clothes.

Nov 03 20:17:10 <FlyingDragon> Bye

Nov 03 20:17:20 * FlyingDragon is now known as InvisibleDragon

Nov 03 20:17:31 * InvisibleDragon will be listening.....

Nov 03 20:17:35 <jim_stiles> bye flyingdragon

Nov 03 20:17:55 <SeanS> she is carol phillips on the list if you didnt know

Nov 03 20:18:48 * Hippy returned, sartorially splendid, ready to face the days

Nov 03 20:19:00 <SeanS> wb

Nov 03 20:19:05 <jim_stiles> Yes, I figured out that FlyingDragon was Carol because of her answers with respect to Many Kinds of Loving

Nov 03 20:19:16 <jim_stiles> oops

Nov 03 20:19:40 <SeanS> yeah, she and edwin scribner wrote it

Nov 03 20:19:43 <SeanS> tis ok

Nov 03 20:19:50 * Dan might be slow to answer for a little while. One of my e-zine's editorial staff is in the zine's chatroom...

Nov 03 20:20:12 * SeanS is an easy god ;)

Nov 03 20:20:23 <jim_stiles> I liked the story, although oral sex between non-humans was kinda icky

Nov 03 20:20:42 <Hippy> Oh, god. . .

Nov 03 20:20:49 <jim_stiles> rather between humans and puppeteers

Nov 03 20:21:05 <SeanS> been a long time since i have read it

Nov 03 20:22:52 <jim_stiles> I liked "Neutron Star" and "MKOL" because they dealt with what happens when businesses go bankrupt

Nov 03 20:23:37 <SeanS> interesting

Nov 03 20:24:26 <jim_stiles> bankruptcy is rarely handled in SF

Nov 03 20:25:10 <Hippy> That's an interesting point, Jim

Nov 03 20:25:18 <SeanS> i would love to see this kind of turn out every day instead of just on the 1st sat. ;)

Nov 03 20:25:56 <Hippy> Hell, I'd be here every week if I thought other people would turn up

Nov 03 20:26:06 <jim_stiles> what is the ave turnout for 1st sat chars

Nov 03 20:26:17 <Hippy> But getting up at 6:00AM every day might do me a mischief

Nov 03 20:26:20 <SeanS> tis about normal

Nov 03 20:26:41 <SeanS> 10 to 20.... depends on what people are doing

Nov 03 20:27:00 <Hippy> And of course we come in and out as the Earth rotates

Nov 03 20:27:06 <SeanS> yep

Nov 03 20:27:23 <jim_stiles> are there any good conventions coming up

Nov 03 20:27:47 <SeanS> dont know... i just run the server

Nov 03 20:28:23 <jim_stiles> server?

Nov 03 20:28:51 <SeanS> the irc server that you are talking on is in my closet ;)

Nov 03 20:29:24 <Hippy> It still hasn't come out of the closet? Good. There is entirely too much of that going on nowadays

Nov 03 20:29:55 <Dan> lol

Nov 03 20:30:25 <jim_stiles> Philip II of Spain had to declare four state bankruptcies in 1557, 1560, 1575 and 1596. Spain became the first sovereign nation in history to declare bankruptcy.

Nov 03 20:30:37 <jim_stiles>

Nov 03 20:30:43 <Dan> Google Sci-Fi conventions in your area.

Nov 03 20:30:52 <jim_stiles> I will

Nov 03 20:31:45 <Dan> There are usually several good sites that list them for each area.

Nov 03 20:33:41 <Hippy> What is the capital of West Virginia? I'm surprised I don't know that

Nov 03 20:33:55 <jim_stiles> Charleston, WV

Nov 03 20:34:03 <SeanS> brb, julie eaating and wants me to sit with her

Nov 03 20:34:23 <jim_stiles> I like near Morgantown, WV which is near Pittsburgh, PA

Nov 03 20:34:44 <jim_stiles> tell her to sit at your computer, LOL

Nov 03 20:37:53 <Hippy> Aha! I once lost a trivia contest because the questioner thought the dance the Charleston was invented there.

Nov 03 20:38:25 <Hippy> I thought it was in the Carolina (can't remember which one) Charleston

Nov 03 20:38:44 <jim_stiles> Charleston, South Carolina

Nov 03 20:38:54 <Dan> South Carolina, I think.

Nov 03 20:39:36 <jim_stiles> he Charleston is a dance named for the city of Charleston, South Carolina. The rhythm is a traditional one from West Africa, popularized in mainstream dance music in the United States of America by a 1923 tune called The Charleston by composer/pianist James P. Johnson which originated in the Broadway show Runnin' Wild and became one of the most popular hits of the decade.

Nov 03 20:39:48 <jim_stiles>

Nov 03 20:41:29 <Hippy> I was right! Or at least halfway to being right.

Nov 03 20:41:41 <Hippy> Now to go back in time and fix his little red wagon. . .

Nov 03 20:44:56 <Dan> Probably just wind up on an alternate timline.

Nov 03 20:46:03 <Hippy> Well, there are a lot of things about this timeline I'd change, so that mightn't be too bad. Not sure about sentient life descended from wolves, but there are other possibilities

Nov 03 20:50:57 <jim_stiles> there is a Draco Tavern story about sentient wolf-like creatures

Nov 03 20:51:33 <Hippy> Ah, yes. The Folk. I was referring to the Svetz story 'There's A Wolf in my Time Machine'

Nov 03 20:52:28 <jim_stiles> Svetz?

Nov 03 20:53:05 * growler has quit ()

Nov 03 20:53:18 <jim_stiles> bye growler

Nov 03 20:53:27 <Hippy> A time traveller from a 'Silent Spring' (Rachel Carson)-like future who goes back in time to recover animals. Collected in 'The Flight of the Horse'

Nov 03 20:53:50 <Hippy> I think Dan was referring to that, too

Nov 03 20:54:02 <Hippy> They're Larry Niven stories

Nov 03 20:54:17 <Hippy> Hey, we could have an IRC channel for each series!

Nov 03 20:54:56 <Dan> And in "Rainbow Mars."

Nov 03 20:55:36 <Dan> Nah, I was just refering to alternate timeline travel in general.

Nov 03 20:55:49 <Hippy> Oh, yes! It's amazing, but I've largely forgotten 'Rainbow Mars'. I don't really iknow why, either

Nov 03 20:56:09 <Dan> Lots of discussion about that on the H. Beam Piper list lately.

Nov 03 20:56:39 <jim_stiles>

Nov 03 20:57:05 <Hippy> I thought Niven had invented the idea that time machines 'wobble' across alternate timelines. But it appears he didn't

Nov 03 20:57:26 <jim_stiles> Loscon upcoming convention should be of interest to Indiana Jones and Daniel Jackson fans.

Nov 03 20:57:57 <jim_stiles> Please explain the idea behind wobbling across alternative timelines.

Nov 03 20:58:39 <Dan> I started writing a paper about alternate timeline travel, but gave up on it because there were few writers that used the primise for a whole series of stories rather than single stories.

Nov 03 20:59:20 <Hippy> But there are heaps of alternate history stories

Nov 03 20:59:56 <Dan> Yeah, but most are stand-alones. My focus was on series.

Nov 03 21:00:13 <jim_stiles> how do alternative timeline stories differ from alternative history stories

Nov 03 21:00:35 <Hippy> Jim: the idea is that a time machine goes back in time from its starting point but cannot always return to the same starting point. Picture it moving down a cable, but then at the bottom moving sideways and going up a different cable

Nov 03 21:00:52 <jim_stiles> OK

Nov 03 21:01:37 <Hippy> Now, if the time machine is somehow tethered to its starting point, it can go up a different cable but will at least always return to its proper cable eventually

Nov 03 21:02:08 <jim_stiles> I liked the time travel component in the Asimov story "Pebble in the Sky" but the time travel is strictly one-way

Nov 03 21:02:33 <Hippy> If it isn't tethered to its starting point it might go up its original cable but chanves are it won't. So it wobbles from cable to cable until it breaks down or the travellers get sick of it

Nov 03 21:03:09 <jim_stiles> so one could go back to 1776 and return to see Al Gore president

Nov 03 21:03:35 <Dan> I was concentrating on writers who did a whole series of alternate timeline traveling stories, for the purpose of the paper I had to ignore strictly time-travel (past or future) and focus on the sideways ones.

Nov 03 21:04:05 <Hippy> Asimov's best time travel piece is 'The End of Tternity' where he sets up the lovely idea of the 'minimum necessary change'. This has made a lot ofubsequent AH stories strive for elegance in just how minimal a change you need to get the alternate history you want

Nov 03 21:04:38 <Hippy> I see, Dan. Yes, there are very few of those on the ground

Nov 03 21:05:05 <Dan> Roughly 4, actually.

Nov 03 21:05:06 <jim_stiles> I will try to get a copy of TEOE.

Nov 03 21:05:57 <Hippy> It's worth it just for the idea of the MNC. In fact, I'm sad to say, that's all I do remember about it

Nov 03 21:06:24 <Hippy> So if you read it and the MNC doesn't turn up in it, it proves that my memory is just not as good as I remember it being

Nov 03 21:06:39 <Hippy> What are these 4, Dan?

Nov 03 21:07:00 <Dan> Piper's Paratime, L. Neil Smith's North American Confederacy, Andre Norton's Crosstime, and one other that I've forgotten.

Nov 03 21:07:44 <Dan> The first three are the best developed and most readable.

Nov 03 21:07:47 <Hippy> I'll have to look up the Smith one. Never heard of it before

Nov 03 21:09:28 <Hippy>

Nov 03 21:09:49 <Dan> Smith is a pretty nice guy. He's run for president in the US at least twice, Libertarian - and the stories have a very libertarian content.

Nov 03 21:11:40 <Dan> You might like this detail, his NAC timeline was created by the inclusion of one word in the Declaration of Independence that isn't in our version on this timeline.

Nov 03 21:12:29 <jim_stiles> is defunct

Nov 03 21:12:44 <Dan> Hang on...

Nov 03 21:15:48 <Hippy> Ah. . .that's why he looks like quite a pretty Presidnetial candidate

Nov 03 21:16:29 <Dan> Ah, all my old links for him are dead except for Big Head Press.

Nov 03 21:16:30 <Hippy> Yes, I read that about the Constitution on the wikipedia. Now that's what I call 'elegant'. But I would love to know the actual word. . .

Nov 03 21:16:58 <Dan> The word is "Unamimous."

Nov 03 21:17:17 <Hippy> Oh, that is excellent!

Nov 03 21:17:44 <Dan> It comes just before the phrase "consent of the governed..."

Nov 03 21:19:15 <Dan> So we have to put up with majority votes, while *all* of them have to agree in order make or change laws.

Nov 03 21:20:27 <Dan> Keeps federal government helpless in atempting to dictate what anyone can or cannot do with their own lives.

Nov 03 21:20:30 <Hippy> It would be interesting to see how your Constitution would look now.

Nov 03 21:21:32 <Dan> It's an interesting series.

Nov 03 21:23:15 <Dan>

Nov 03 21:23:25 <Hippy> Well, on the pile it shall go. . .eventually

Nov 03 21:23:28 <Dan> That link is still live!

Nov 03 21:26:39 <Hippy> I'm just reading and agreeing with him on gun control

Nov 03 21:27:10 <Dan> Yeah, it means using both hands...

Nov 03 21:27:17 <Dan> :)

Nov 03 21:28:06 <jim_stiles> Don't Shoot the Bastards (Yet): 101 More Ways to Salvage Freedom

Nov 03 21:28:18 <jim_stiles> oops

Nov 03 21:28:35 <Dan> LOL!

Nov 03 21:29:46 <jim_stiles> that was a title of book published by Loompanics Unlimited - they publish some really wild books

Nov 03 21:31:06 <Dan> I helped get Neil's book of political essays published - by writing him a fan mail e-mail. Evidently

Nov 03 21:31:32 <Hippy> This is 'Lever Action'?

Nov 03 21:31:40 <Dan> I wasn't th only one who said they'd buy it if it were published.

Nov 03 21:31:47 <Dan> Yep.

Nov 03 21:33:04 <Dan> He showed the e-mails to his agent, who showed them to a publisher, who eventually put the book out. Fans at work, in effect.

Nov 03 21:33:37 <jim_stiles> Loompanics Unlimited went out of business in 2006

Nov 03 21:33:58 <Hippy> That is one of the good things about the Internet. Imagine doing so something like that even 20 years ago

Nov 03 21:34:41 <jim_stiles> you could do it 20 years ago, but it would be expensive because it would involve mailing postcards to the publisher

Nov 03 21:35:03 <Hippy> Exactly. Email is super cheap

Nov 03 21:35:04 <Dan> Would have been a lot harder to get enough folks that just happened to write fan letters at/near the same time.

Nov 03 21:35:48 <Hippy> Anyway, gnetlemen, it's now lunchtime here, so I shall head off for that and see you all next Saturday

Nov 03 21:36:13 <jim_stiles> bye hippy

Nov 03 21:36:19 <Hippy> . . .by which time I'll at least have read 'Many Kinds of Loving' but almost certainly not 'Fleet of Worlds'

Nov 03 21:36:26 <Hippy> 'Bye, Jum

Nov 03 21:36:31 <Dan> There wasn't any planning, it just so happened that enough fans wrote e-mails expressing the desire to buy such a book if one happened to get published.

Nov 03 21:36:39 <Hippy> Or 'Jim', as I believe you prefer to be called

Nov 03 21:36:45 <Dan> See you then!

Nov 03 21:37:01 * Hippy has quit ()

Nov 03 21:39:03 * Fred_afk_bbl has quit (Connection reset by peer)

Nov 03 21:39:09 * elwood (~elwood@ has joined #knownspace

Nov 03 21:39:36 <elwood> dum dee dum....

Nov 03 21:39:49 <Dan> Hiya, elwood.

Nov 03 21:40:03 <elwood> Hi Dan.... today's hot topic is NEXT WEEK's chat?

Nov 03 21:40:44 <Dan> Well, sort of. Not enough people are finished reading yet to chat about

Nov 03 21:40:59 <Dan> "Fleet..." this week.

Nov 03 21:41:07 <elwood> Huh, only took me a couple of days. Then again I have no life.

Nov 03 21:41:31 <Dan> We covered lots of different topics already.

Nov 03 21:42:03 <elwood> anything juicy?

Nov 03 21:42:08 <elwood> controversial?

Nov 03 21:42:19 <elwood> scandalous?

Nov 03 21:42:39 <Dan> Puppeteer sex, for one topic.

Nov 03 21:42:56 <elwood> that's HAWT.... what about it?

Nov 03 21:44:07 <elwood> By the way Dan, I enjoyed your post, happy birthday!

Nov 03 21:44:26 <Dan> Our own Carol Philips seems to have covered it fairly well in a fan-fic. Larry's "Fleet..." co-author, Ed, was here and said that her story didn't contradict anything in the canon.

Nov 03 21:44:39 <Dan> Thank you.

Nov 03 21:44:41 <elwood> hooray for Carol!

Nov 03 21:44:47 * Dan blushes,

Nov 03 21:45:18 <elwood> I have a topic: Niven and the Beatles.

Nov 03 21:45:33 <Dan> I'm unused to anyone admiting that they've read something I've written.

Nov 03 21:45:37 <Dan> :)

Nov 03 21:45:58 <elwood> Oh, it was a slow news day, I guess *grin*

Nov 03 21:46:17 <jim_stiles> Elwood, please elucidate

Nov 03 21:46:35 <Dan> Well, I'm interested. How do Larry and the Beatles connect?

Nov 03 21:46:43 <elwood> Anyway, in compiling the Bibliography I discoevered that Niven exploded onto the Sci Fi scene about the same time as the Fab 4

Nov 03 21:47:24 <jim_stiles> Niven is just a few years older

Nov 03 21:48:01 <jim_stiles> Niven is just a few years older but much older than their fans

Nov 03 21:48:19 <elwood> between 1964 and 1969 he cranked out over 40 of his "signature" works, including a huge swath of Known Space

Nov 03 21:48:24 <Dan> So it might have been Larry and the Beatles rather than the Beatles and LSD that brought about "the Summer of Love" in '69?

Nov 03 21:48:40 * Dan grins.

Nov 03 21:49:07 <elwood> Hey, there's a LOT of sex in Larry's work, implied if not explicit

Nov 03 21:49:39 <jim_stiles> I think that Niven probably had a greater impact on the New Right types not the New Left during the misnamed Summer of Love

Nov 03 21:49:51 <Dan> I like the way he lets it happen offscreen.

Nov 03 21:50:24 <elwood> YOu're right, Jim. Niven and the Beatles were a one-two punch that stunned the entire world.

Nov 03 21:51:23 <elwood> (I guess "Flatlander" was his first story to have semi-explicit sex in it: Bey and Sharrol)

Nov 03 21:52:03 <Dan> Quite possibly.

Nov 03 21:52:11 <elwood> Anyway, I was just impressed at the sheer depth and bredth of Niven's output in that span

Nov 03 21:54:41 <Dan> Hard to believe he wrote all that in just five years.

Nov 03 21:55:13 <elwood> Bey Shaffer, Gil "The Arm" Hamilton, Pak protectors, Louis Wu, Nessus, Svetz, the Warlock, and "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex" all appeared in that span

Nov 03 21:56:12 <Dan> I never stopped to think about how much he got done in so little time.

Nov 03 21:56:41 <elwood> I didn't either until I was compiling the Bibliography. Ya gotta be impressed.

Nov 03 21:56:58 <Dan> I didn't discover Larry's stories until I was in college in the late '70s.

Nov 03 21:57:21 <elwood> It was the early 80s for me.... already so far behind!!!!!

Nov 03 21:58:17 <jim_stiles> I discovered Niven's stories in the 1970's also. Louis Wu didn't appear until 1980.

Nov 03 21:58:20 <elwood> I got lucky, between Boston, NYC and Philly there were plenty of book stores where I could find his story collections.

Nov 03 21:59:09 <Dan> I had a paperback of Ringworld in '76.

Nov 03 21:59:24 <elwood> Jim, I am not sure what you mean. Do you mean Louis Wu didn't appear in your life until 1980? I first read Ringworld in maybe 1984 or '85, as a youth.

Nov 03 21:59:52 <jim_stiles> Ringworld was published in 1970. My mistake.

Nov 03 22:00:09 <elwood> But Louis appears in "There is a Tide," July 1968

Nov 03 22:00:49 <jim_stiles> Has TIAT been reprinted?

Nov 03 22:01:18 <elwood> (ObFLEETofWORLDS: the Neutronium "trap" set in "There is a Tide" is mentioned in "Fleet of Worlds"

Nov 03 22:02:37 <elwood> "There is a Tide" appears in A Hole in Space," "Tales of Known Space" and "Three Books of Known Space"

Nov 03 22:03:19 <elwood> I love "The Books of Known Space" because one of the books is "Tales of Known Space"; it'

Nov 03 22:03:47 <elwood> it's a big fat tour of Known Space

Nov 03 22:04:18 <elwood> I meant I love "THREE Books of Known Space"

Nov 03 22:05:30 <Dan> Gents, I'm going to call it a night. I've been in the chatroom for 10 hours now. I need to go smooch on my wife before she nods off for the night. Hope to see you next week.

Nov 03 22:05:50 <jim_stiles> see ya Dan

Nov 03 22:05:52 <elwood> smooch away, my good man. I think I may do the same (on my wife, not yours)

Nov 03 22:05:56 <Dan> Goodnight!

Nov 03 22:06:00 * Dan has quit ()

Nov 03 22:06:04 * elwood has quit (Quit: *g0ne*)

Nov 03 22:15:04 <jim_stiles> bye

Nov 03 22:15:08 * jim_stiles has quit ()