Chat Log: May 5th 2012

[02:40] Akiraa has joined #knownspace
[09:49] fredskuentz has joined #knownspace
[09:49] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Is it chat yet?
[09:49] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Is it?
[09:50] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Is it?
[10:15] #knownspace> sean: not for me
[10:32] #knownspace> sean: closing in on coffee time tho
[10:32] #knownspace> sean: !coffee
[10:32] #knownspace> sean: hmm, not a trigger
[10:33] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Is this your first supermoon coffee?
[10:58] #knownspace> Akiraa:
[11:19] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Wow. And I thought I had a headache *before* reading that.
[11:29] SeanLap has joined #knownspace
[11:29] #knownspace> SeanLap: .weather 40601
[11:29] #knownspace> Outsider: Overcast ☁, 73.4℉ (23℃), 29.96in (1011mb), Light breeze 5kt (↑) - KLOU 14:53Z
[11:31] #knownspace> sean: wont see the supermoon. pretty overcast here
[11:56] #knownspace> fredskuentz: .weather 85018
[11:56] #knownspace> Outsider: Cloudy, 73.4℉ (23℃), 29.91in (1010mb), Gentle breeze 8kt (↑) - KPHX 14:51Z
[11:56] #knownspace> fredskuentz: hard to tell
[12:29] #knownspace> sean: hard to tell what?
[12:36] #knownspace> sean: !weather 40601
[12:36] #knownspace> HAL9000: Weather info for Frankfort, Kentucky (updated on 12:28 PM EDT on May 05, 2012) -- Temperature: 70F / 21C -- Humidity: 88% -- Dew Point: 66F / 19C -- Wind: NW at 4 mph / 6 km/h -- Pressure: 29.96 in / 1014 hPa (Steady) -- Conditions: Overcast -- Visibility: 6.0 miles / 9.7 kilometers -- UV: 3 out of 16 -- Clouds: Scattered Clouds (SCT) : 900 ft / 274 m Overcast (OVC) : 2100 ft / 640 m --
[12:36] #knownspace> HAL9000: Yesterday's Maximum: 83F / 28C -- Yesterday's Minimum: 64F / 18C -- Yesterday's Cooling Degree Days: 8 -- Sunrise: 6:38 AM EDT -- Sunset: 8:35 PM EDT -- Moon Rise: 8:26 PM EDT -- Moon Set: 5:59 AM EDT -- Moon Phase: Full Moon
[13:09] Lensman has joined #knownspace
[13:30] NickE has joined #knownspace
[13:31] #knownspace> Lensman: Hi Nick!
[13:31] #knownspace> NickE: in and out/akf this evening so likely to be intermitently responding. Hi Lens!
[13:32] #knownspace> Lensman: That's okay, I'm multi-tasking too.
[13:33] #knownspace> Lensman: Trying to watch a "Saturday Night Live" clip on, but it doesn't want to play with my AdBlock.
[13:34] #knownspace> Lensman: At least that's what the error message says. I disabled AdBlock for that page and for in general, but to no avail.
[13:34] #knownspace> Lensman: :)
[13:34] #knownspace> Lensman: Oops...
[13:34] #knownspace> Lensman: :(
[13:46] #knownspace> sean: Hi Nick, Lens
[13:48] #knownspace> SeanDerby: in route to Julie's will log back in from there.
[13:48] #knownspace> NickE: off t' races then? or just beers? :-)
[13:48] #knownspace> NickE: Beers it os :-)
[13:48] #knownspace> NickE: is
[13:48] #knownspace> SeanDerby: look for me, I will be in the infield. just kidding. Heading to friends for the mandatory Derby Party
[13:49] #knownspace> NickE: i'll need to sign off and log in on another machine too
[13:49] #knownspace> NickE: fair nuff
[13:49] #knownspace> NickE: Avengers was bloody good
[13:49] #knownspace> SeanDerby: kids saw it last night. said it was awesome but they are 13
[13:50] #knownspace> SeanDerby: no idea who the characters are except for the movies
[13:50] #knownspace> fredskuentz: it's gonna make $400m this weekend
[13:50] #knownspace> NickE: well, I wouldn't disagree. Not the very best I've seen, but a very fine action movie with a great script
[13:50] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Hey Lensman
[13:50] #knownspace> SeanDerby: okay.. heading out. will log back in from laptop
[13:50] #knownspace> NickE: doesn't surprise me, deserves to be big
[13:50] #knownspace> NickE: K
[13:51] #knownspace> NickE: hi fred
[13:51] #knownspace> fredskuentz: we're taking a friend's son to AVENGERS but we didn't need to go opening weekend
[13:51] #knownspace> fredskuentz: hey nick
[13:51] #knownspace> fredskuentz: might go to the DBox theater with the moving seats
[13:52] #knownspace> NickE: about to log out for a little, then will be eating and intermittently at keyboard
[13:53] #knownspace> NickE: See it 2D is my advice (it was shot 2D and the $D gimmick added after, It adds nothing, but TBF, it's not too intrusive)
[13:53] #knownspace> fredskuentz: can't get DBox without 3D
[13:53] #knownspace> fredskuentz: which is annoying
[13:53] #knownspace> NickE: (I hate 3D.) It's worth seeing whatever format - and I had no choice but 3D and I still had a blast
[13:54] #knownspace> NickE: audience applauds a couple of times, it's that good
[13:54] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I suspect we'll go plain, although I wouldn't mind the STAR CLASS theater with the comfy recliners and food service
[13:54] #knownspace> fredskuentz: but they won't let kids in
[13:54] #knownspace> fredskuentz: 'cause they serve booze
[13:55] #knownspace> NickE: ah, a civilised cinema :-)
[13:55] #knownspace> NickE: OK, off for a bit, back in a few
[14:02] #knownspace> Lensman: I was stunned to see a critics' rating over 90% for "The Avengers" at Critics generally don't like SF action films!
[14:03] #knownspace> Lensman: Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing it.
[14:53] NickE has joined #knownspace
[14:55] #knownspace> Lensman: Well, almost official start time.
[14:57] #knownspace> Akiraa: what are interesting sci-fi in film or tv, upcoming?
[14:57] #knownspace> Lensman: "The Avengers" opens this weekend! Everybody seems to love it, even critics!
[14:58] dmac44 has joined #knownspace
[14:58] #knownspace> dmac44: Hi guys.
[14:59] #knownspace> Lensman: I haven't seen an really good SF on TV lately. My favorite current shows are "Hell on Wheels", "Suits" and "Sherlock". Well, there's "Downton Abbey" too.
[14:59] #knownspace> Lensman: Hi dmac!
[14:59] #knownspace> Lensman: Hey dmac, you owe me some e-mails!
[14:59] #knownspace> dmac44: I do? Did you send me something?
[14:59] Hippy has joined #knownspace
[15:00] #knownspace> dmac44: Hi Hippy.
[15:00] #knownspace> Lensman: Hi Hippy!
[15:00] #knownspace> Hippy: Hi dmac, Lens
[15:00] #knownspace> Lensman: dmac: I sent you a very long e-mail, and you only responded to the first point, as I recall.
[15:00] #knownspace> Hippy: How's it all going in your respective time zones?
[15:00] #knownspace> dmac44: Lens: Sorry, I'll take another look at it.
[15:01] #knownspace> Lensman: Can't complain, Hippy. (Wouldn't do any good.)
[15:01] #knownspace> Hippy: I hear that
[15:02] SeanLap has joined #knownspace
[15:02] #knownspace> SeanLap: hello again, everyone
[15:02] #knownspace> Lensman: I thought we were having a very interesting discussion, dmac. You inspired the discussion we had a month or two ago here, about how the /Lying Bastard/ could accelerate (decelerate) from 0.8 lightspeed down to practiclaly nothing.
[15:02] #knownspace> Hippy: Hi, Sean
[15:03] #knownspace> NickE: back as well
[15:03] #knownspace> SeanLap: took a lot longer to get to Julie's than I anticipated
[15:03] #knownspace> dmac44: What were the conclusions?
[15:03] #knownspace> Hippy: Hi, NickE Are you in Africa yet?
[15:04] #knownspace> NickE: not yet, flying out Thursday
[15:04] #knownspace> Lensman: dmac: I thought you were here at least for the end of that?
[15:04] #knownspace> dmac44: I missed last month (my grandkids were here).
[15:04] #knownspace> Hippy: Good luck, then :)
[15:04] #knownspace> Lensman: We discussed the low-inertia field and zero-point energy. Larry said he preferred the latter as an explanation.
[15:05] #knownspace> Lensman: dmac: Shall I forward to you the text file of the chat that Hippy sent me?
[15:05] #knownspace> NickE: cheers
[15:05] #knownspace> NickE: lots of DEET repellent :-)
[15:05] #knownspace> dmac44: then the puppeteers are even more advanced than has been explicitly written about.
[15:05] Larry has joined #knownspace
[15:05] #knownspace> dmac44: Lens; Yes, please do.
[15:05] #knownspace> NickE: Hi Larry
[15:05] #knownspace> dmac44: Hi Larry.
[15:05] #knownspace> SeanLap: Hi Larry
[15:06] #knownspace> Lensman: Larry said ZPE presented fewer problems... altho he also said that draining the universe of ZPE would shrink space.
[15:06] #knownspace> Lensman: HI LARRY!
[15:06] #knownspace> Larry: Hi guys and gals.
[15:06] #knownspace> Lensman: And Ed said that thruster tech would be further explored in THE FATE OF WORLDS.
[15:06] #knownspace> Larry: Space is expanding. ZPE is a free ride and may save the universe.
[15:07] #knownspace> dmac44: from the Big Rip.
[15:08] #knownspace> Lensman: dmac: But we know that Baedecker was experimenting with the Outsider planetary thruster, which uses ZPE. And that he improved it. Is it much of a stretch to think that he, or other Puppeteer engineers, managed to create a ship-sized thruster using the same tech?
[15:08] #knownspace> dmac44: Yeah, that's reasonable.
[15:10] #knownspace> Larry: Hippy, can't you just scroll back?
[15:10] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, yes. I have, but it's the not same as being there for the event :)
[15:11] #knownspace> Hippy: It's like watching tapes of the Moon landings
[15:11] #knownspace> Larry: I often step away for tea, coffee, lunch, or just to read my email/
[15:11] #knownspace> Lensman: I'll be interested to see if Ed can explain away the continuity problem he created by saying the Fleet of World only accelerated very slowly, over decades. Doesn't fit with the description of distance traveled in RINGWORLD.
[15:13] #knownspace> dmac44: The only way it seems to work is if the Puppeteers worlds started about 110 ly from Sol.
[15:13] #knownspace> Larry: Okay, here's the secret. I envisioned the Fleet being accelerated all at once by Outsider magic. Ed wanted it another way, so what the hell.
[15:13] #knownspace> NickE: ah
[15:14] #knownspace> Lensman: Larry: That's no secret. You put in "Ghost" that the Fleet was already traveling at 0.8 cee. So it was pretty obvious Ed doesn't like the implications of inertialess acceleration; he's put a lot in the ...OF WORLDS books about that.
[15:14] #knownspace> Lensman: Even had Carlos Wu saying you couldn't accelerate to 0.8 cee in just three months... if I recall.
[15:15] #knownspace> Lensman: Of course, Carlos was wrong about that. Outsiders can do it in a few minutes.
[15:15] #knownspace> Larry: I used the same instant Outsider acceleration in "Flatlander".
[15:15] #knownspace> Lensman: Yes, exactly.
[15:16] #knownspace> NickE: "someone heavy was sitting down on the universe" great line
[15:16] #knownspace> Lensman: Yah, one of my favorite Beowulf Shaeffer scenes.
[15:17] #knownspace> NickE: Like Flatlander a lot. Always wanted a bit more of Elephant
[15:17] #knownspace> Lensman: Well, I shouldn't say "inertialess" acceleration. Low-inertia acceleration.
[15:17] #knownspace> Larry: Yeah, I like Elephant as a character.
[15:18] #knownspace> Lensman: So do your readers. :)
[15:18] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, there's a Man-Kzin wars tory in the offing
[15:19] #knownspace> dmac44: Larry: Now that the ... OF WORLDS books are done do you see yourself writing more stories in the KS universe in the future?
[15:20] #knownspace> Larry: No, I don't have any more Known Space stories in mind. I've thought I was finished before. Ed and the Worlds stories came as a surprise. So did Ringworld.
[15:20] #knownspace> dmac44: Hippy: What's th Man-Kzin story you're referring to?
[15:20] #knownspace> Lensman: The end of A GIFT FROM EARTH actually says the Outsiders have reactionless inertialess drive, but as we discussed a month or two ago here, it can't actually be full inertialessness, 'cuz if it was the Outsider ship could instantly come to a stop, and it does take them a few minutes.
[15:21] #knownspace> Hippy: I was just thinking that Elepahant was in the MK wars, so another story about Elepahnt could be set then. I don't know that there actually is one coming out
[15:22] #knownspace> Larry: For Known Space purposes, inertia is a variable, but it doesn't go to zero.
[15:22] #knownspace> Lensman: Does one of the MKW stories have Elephant in it?
[15:22] #knownspace> dmac44: I don't think so (at least so far).
[15:22] #knownspace> Larry: I don't think any of my writers has used Elephant.
[15:23] #knownspace> Hippy: No, but future volumes might do
[15:23] #knownspace> Lensman: Okay, Hippy, please explain.
[15:23] #knownspace> dmac44: Isn't there a new MKW book out this month?
[15:24] #knownspace> Hippy: I was just mooting the idea that if people liek Elephant, the story to put him in would be one from the MK wars, since we know from 'Flatlander' that he fought in them. So, in a future volume of MKW, somebody might write an Elephant story. Even Larry might
[15:24] #knownspace> NickE: I kind of used Pelton once in a back story for a RW RPG campaign, but never got to use him as an NPC unfortunately :-)
[15:24] #knownspace> Lensman: If you're thinking of the guy with the Hellflare tattoo, Hippy... that's not Elephant. It's the guy who broke Bey's arm aboard the ship /Lensman/ at the beginning of "Flatlander".
[15:24] #knownspace> NickE: yep
[15:24] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh. . .
[15:24] #knownspace> Lensman: After Bey made a pass at his wife.
[15:24] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, forget what I said then
[15:24] #knownspace> NickE: But Pelton is old enough to have been involved - I just think he had other stuff to do
[15:25] #knownspace> Lensman: I've always wondered how old Elephant was.
[15:25] #knownspace> dmac44: I just checked Amazon. MKW XIII was published May 1st.
[15:26] #knownspace> Hippy: I may have to lunge for the credit card, then
[15:26] #knownspace> NickE: (I had Elephant much older and knowing Louis Wu from before RW)
[15:26] SolBelter has joined #knownspace
[15:27] #knownspace> dmac44: Since Elephant is a Flatlander how would he have been involved in a M-K War?
[15:27] #knownspace> NickE: money, lots of money
[15:27] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, Earth would have sent people to fight the Kzinti
[15:28] #knownspace> Lensman: If you do the math... Elephant's great-to-the-eighth grandma had to be like 175 when she invented the jump booth... or adapted the Puppeteer tech. Makes you wonder just how many generations of Peltons that Gregory has to put up with!
[15:28] #knownspace> SolBelter: his fortune could explain him being anywhere his curiosity takes him
[15:28] #knownspace> NickE: and it's made clear that he had been most places
[15:29] #knownspace> Lensman: Lots of Flatlanders fought the Kzinti. Especially in the First War, when Sol almost certainly had a bigger industrial base than any colony. Maybe it still does. Or maybe the Belt has a bigger industrial base, at least as far as the ability to build warships.
[15:30] #knownspace> SolBelter: ...and 'industrial lasers'
[15:30] #knownspace> dmac44: Multiple generations of long lived people show up in many KS stories. And, the changes in family behaviour that accompany improvements in longer lfe tech.
[15:30] #knownspace> dmac44: life
[15:31] #knownspace> Lensman: Yah, we saw the children who had had their development arrested in "Fly-By-Night". Rather icky to me, but I guess I'm just too straightlaced.
[15:32] #knownspace> SolBelter: i'd like to disagree with the line about 'no marriage or hobby or profession could survive centuries' - that's a paraphrase. But i haven't been offered long life. :)
[15:32] #knownspace> dmac44: In The Handicaped and Protector.
[15:33] #knownspace> Larry: those kids (in Fly By Night) were supposed to be icky.
[15:33] #knownspace> Lensman: Seems to be in "Grendel", too. The idea that you get bored with anything, eventually... even bored with living.
[15:33] #knownspace> Lensman: Larry: I'm relieved to see you say that.
[15:34] #knownspace> Lensman: Thought maybe it was just me.
[15:34] #knownspace> dmac44: Juxtaposition: Studleberg Club with Grendel - different approaches to longevity.
[15:34] #knownspace> SolBelter: Arrested children in non-KS World out of time
[15:34] #knownspace> Lensman: And boredom afflicts Louis Wu, too... at the beginning of RINGWORLD.
[15:34] #knownspace> NickE: I can get that - folk of extreme age wouldl be be wealthy and it would take a particular personality type to survive - Louis has that (his sabbaticals are one coping method)
[15:35] #knownspace> NickE: but his natural tourist tendancies means that he seeks out the new, is a xenophile and hes lived enough lives to know that he can cope
[15:36] #knownspace> Lensman: "There Is a Tide" implies that some of Louis' friends had set out in singleships for the edge of Known Space... and simply had decided not to survive the trip. Of course, the story itself suggests some may not have ended their life voluntarily.
[15:36] #knownspace> NickE: mostly anyway, even wierheading got boring for him eventually
[15:37] #knownspace> Lensman: There's a line in RINGWORLD about Louis standing on the edge of Plateau, looking down at the Long Fall river waterfall disappearing into the mist, and vowing to live forever. The implication seems to be that Louis is unusual at wanting to live forever.
[15:37] #knownspace> Hippy: Now consider the situation of some poor working stiff who still can get boosterspice. He's 150 yers in the same job. . .
[15:38] #knownspace> SeanLap: horrible thought... being a shoe salesman for 150 years
[15:38] #knownspace> SolBelter: NickE, i disagree about Loius becoming bored with wireheading.
[15:39] #knownspace> Hippy: How many fat ladies would come into the shop in 150 years??
[15:39] #knownspace> Larry: wirehading IS boring.
[15:39] #knownspace> Lensman: He wasn't a wirehead *that* long. Less than 20 years, I think.
[15:39] #knownspace> SolBelter: I thought it was loyalty to Chmee that overrode his need for tree of life, oh, right, not the wire. never mind
[15:39] #knownspace> NickE: well, maybe not bored - he retains teh craving, but I dunno, once something else beyond his control came along, he was able to stop
[15:40] #knownspace> NickE: something more interesting and life threatening
[15:40] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, that ws because he didn't wnat to be the Hindmost's slave
[15:40] #knownspace> Lensman: Louis definitely didn't give up being a wirehead because he was "bored with it". In fact he had to have a very very strong motive to be able to drive himself to give it up.
[15:41] #knownspace> NickE: I thought that monumantal shift in his priorities (because he had to) was one of teh more satisfying aspects of RWE
[15:41] #knownspace> Lensman: Wasn't so much loyalty to Chmeee as not wanting to let Hindmost control him with the wire.
[15:42] #knownspace> NickE: bit of both IMO
[15:42] #knownspace> Lensman: Because he had to, exactly.
[15:42] #knownspace> SolBelter: i meant Chmee being killed by Teela at the end
[15:42] #knownspace> Lensman: Was forced to.
[15:43] #knownspace> SolBelter: and Louis fighting smell of treoflife
[15:43] #knownspace> dmac44: As Larry has written longevity strongly affects society. And because people are diverse it will affect individuals differently. I think Larry has tried to explore some (but probably not all) of those ways.
[15:43] #knownspace> NickE: agreed, it's an interesting question
[15:44] #knownspace> dmac44: SolBelter: Don't you mean Teela being killed by Louis while fighting Chmeee?
[15:44] #knownspace> Lensman: Absolutely, yes. It's one of the interesting things about the KS background.
[15:45] #knownspace> SolBelter: dmac44: after Louis rallyed, yes
[15:47] #knownspace> SolBelter: i think a big part of longevity surviving boredom is having curiosity
[15:47] #knownspace> Larry: Mick Resnick has talked me and two other guys into writing stories set in a universe of my choosing. I chose the JumpShift universe.
[15:48] #knownspace> Lensman: "The Ethics of Madness" has a lot about someone becoming a mental robot because of repetitive activities. Perhaps Larry sees the same think happening if you stick to the same hobby for 150 years.
[15:48] #knownspace> Larry: Now I'm stuck for a story.
[15:48] #knownspace> Larry: Lensman: good grief, yes.
[15:48] #knownspace> SolBelter: and a overlap is Larry's 'tourist' character seeking new places
[15:50] #knownspace> dmac44: Larry: Why did you choose the JumpShift universe?
[15:50] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, one of the questions in 'Theory and Practice of Teleportation' is if you 'send' someone from a teleporter but don't eveive them, is it murder? Does it cease to be murder if you 'receive' them before the trial
[15:51] #knownspace> Hippy: So, let's say you need to get rid of an heir while you wind up their estate and then being them back to life after you've divvied up the spoils
[15:52] #knownspace> dmac44: Hippy: Wouldn't that still be kidnapping?
[15:52] #knownspace> NickE: does it work like that? ST used teh "pattern buffer" gimmick to bring Scotty back
[15:52] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, definitely kidnapping
[15:53] #knownspace> Hippy: But you could try for attempted murder if you couldl prove the intent not to bring them back
[15:53] #knownspace> Lensman: You can't use the "pattern buffer" thing in the JumpShift universe. You're sent as a massive quantum particle.
[15:53] #knownspace> NickE: but thought teh jump shift used some sort of super neutrino - so could you keep that in some kind of unresolved quantum state?
[15:53] #knownspace> NickE: what he said :-)
[15:53] #knownspace> dmac44: Just don't get a lawyer who has practiced law for 150 years. :)
[15:54] #knownspace> Hippy: LOL
[15:54] #knownspace> Lensman: Nick: I had the same thought... yeah, okay, so you figure out how to store the super-neutrino in a quantum state. In a Bose-Einstein condensate, maybe?
[15:54] #knownspace> NickE: mmm, I could buy that
[15:54] #knownspace> NickE: damn trickt though
[15:55] #knownspace> NickE: tricky
[15:55] #knownspace> Lensman: But yeah, legally it's no different from physically kidnapping them. Still, might be a story there.
[15:55] #knownspace> NickE: aye
[15:55] #knownspace> Larry: I thought it would be easy. I'm thinking of a smuggling story: the booths make smuggling easy.
[15:56] #knownspace> dmac44: What a mess when it collapsed. Like breaking an egg on the floor unless you did everything just right.
[15:56] #knownspace> Hippy: Also organlegging, if you can 'hack' the system so people just teleport to your butcher shop rather htan where they dialled
[15:57] #knownspace> NickE: brb
[15:58] #knownspace> SolBelter: smuggling - a way to make multiple copies, or scam a sucker into thinking that it is...
[16:00] #knownspace> Larry: A package could be a superneutrino ina Bose-Einsteil condensate...would lose or game ergs and kinetic energy as you moved it around...hmm
[16:02] #knownspace> Lensman: Jump Booths make far too many things too damn easy. I'd think smuggling would be like Flatlanders being pickpockets; the authorities just give up trying to enforce it.
[16:03] #knownspace> Larry: Smuggler go to kidnapping when too many amateurs invade their field.
[16:03] #knownspace> SolBelter: "Currently I am working on a novella set in Larry's JumpShift universe, to be released in a volume with a novel by Larry and another novella by rising star Brad Torgerson, same setting. Editor Mike Resnick, publisher Stellar Guild."
[16:03] #knownspace> dmac44: Agreed but they'd still filter for explosives, etc. (WMDs).
[16:03] #knownspace> Hippy: One way to stop it would be to make it very expensive to send stuff across borders. So, from Canada to the US would be thousands of dollars a jump. Then it's not viable to smuggle stuff
[16:04] #knownspace> Larry: And yes, Lensman, that's what I was getting at 40 years ago.
[16:04] #knownspace> Larry: Hippy, tarriffs is what CAUSES smuggling.
[16:05] #knownspace> Hippy: I suppose so
[16:05] #knownspace> Lensman: Now I'm confused. Is Resnick writing a story in the JumpShift universe? Or collaborating with Larry?
[16:05] #knownspace> dmac44: Larry: I think legal issues cause more smuggling than tarriffs.
[16:05] #knownspace> Larry: I haven't given enough thought to terrorism.
[16:06] #knownspace> dmac44: I'm thinking drugs and people.
[16:06] #knownspace> Hippy: Sending a bomb to a flash crowd would work well as terrorism
[16:06] #knownspace> Larry: Nobody's collaborating. Resnick is editing. Three of us are writing independently.
[16:06] #knownspace> Lensman: Thanks Larry.
[16:07] #knownspace> dmac44: How would the world's population rebalance itself with teleportation if there weren't some limitations?
[16:08] #knownspace> Lensman: Actually, as I recall, the JumpShift universe uses an automated series of jumps to take you a long distance... across the ocean... so you don't need to invoke the Bose-Einstein condensate trap. Just set a series of jump booths to keep bouncing you back and forth...
[16:08] #knownspace> dmac44: i.e. to avoid everyone ending up in California?
[16:08] #knownspace> Hippy: Some people mightn't like California
[16:08] #knownspace> SolBelter: dmac44: rebalance to higher ground, drinking water, etc
[16:08] #knownspace> Hippy: And they don't have to be close to work or anything
[16:09] #knownspace> dmac44: oaky, or Oz.
[16:09] #knownspace> Lensman: Yah, that's an extension of the "Flash Mob" concept. If you can live near Estes Park in Colorado, why doesn't everyone? I sure as heck would!
[16:09] #knownspace> Hippy: It's too bloody cold here :)
[16:09] #knownspace> Hippy: But why live nerar there? You're only a flick from it anyway
[16:10] #knownspace> dmac44: But where do you want to hang out?
[16:10] #knownspace> Lensman: But that's addressed in... is it "Flatlander"? Elephant lives halfway up the side of one of the Rocky Mountains. Implication is that you have to have lots of influence to be able to live in a national park.
[16:10] #knownspace> Hippy: I don't know. Cape Town, say. but I cna't afford Cape Town, so I live in Vladivostok but go to Cape Town for tea
[16:11] #knownspace> Lensman: Yah, Known Space ain't the JumpShift universe, but they both have similar jump booths.
[16:11] #knownspace> Hippy: Then I can breakfast in Milan and lunch in Tuskegee
[16:11] #knownspace> dmac44: But if half the population of the northern hemisphere wanted to visit Rio at the same time?
[16:11] #knownspace> Hippy: There would be some congestion
[16:12] #knownspace> Lensman: If you're rich, you'd want to live where the view is spectacular. Where you hang out, could be 1/2 way round the world.
[16:12] #knownspace> dmac44: Some?
[16:12] #knownspace> Hippy: Or perhaps not. How would Rio cope with that?
[16:12] #knownspace> SolBelter: Lensman: also no randoms walking/flicking in *next* to Elephant's mountainside home
[16:12] #knownspace> Hippy: The easier the network gets congested, the harder it is for flash crowds to form
[16:12] #knownspace> Lensman: If you're poor, then you don't have windows... and it doesn't matter where you live. You live where it's cheap.
[16:13] #knownspace> NickE: you might end up with the "distributed house" that I've seen used at least a couple of times (Neil Gaiman and Dan Simmons off the top of my head) - rooms all over that place linked by "doors"
[16:13] Jim has joined #knownspace
[16:13] #knownspace> Jim: Hi all
[16:13] #knownspace> Hippy: And 'A World Out of Time'
[16:13] #knownspace> SolBelter: you have cheap video wallpaper even if poor
[16:13] #knownspace> dmac44: Half a billion people wanting to visit the other side of the planet at the same time might cause a fre problems.
[16:13] #knownspace> Hippy: Hi, Jum
[16:13] #knownspace> Lensman: Right, Elephant's estate is isolated in spectacular wilderness, with no jump booths nearby.
[16:13] #knownspace> dmac44: few
[16:14] #knownspace> Larry: Zelazny wrote of a "distributed house".
[16:14] #knownspace> Hippy: Now, suppose in this congested network people just get lost. HOw would you evne trace them out of thousands coming to one spot?
[16:14] #knownspace> NickE: yep thats the phrase
[16:14] #knownspace> Lensman: Well, there's a limit to how many people the jump booths will transport at once. I think that's in "Flash Crowd"; if it gets too crowded, you can't leave the jump booth, and you have to go elsewhere.
[16:15] #knownspace> dmac44: Because we're talking quantum effects how do you keep the one in a billion chance of two superneutrinos from exchanging some type of information (i.e., The Fly)?
[16:16] #knownspace> Hippy: Eep
[16:16] #knownspace> Hippy: If it's all the same to you, I think I'll walk :)
[16:16] #knownspace> dmac44: take a booth and then fly. :)
[16:17] #knownspace> Hippy: However, if you could convince a sucker that you cna turn 80 kilos of Hippy into 80 kilos of heroin, they might be willing to throw money at you
[16:17] #knownspace> Lensman: I think if it was possible for the superneutrinos to interact, then you'd never be sending people via jump booth. The culture of easy jump booth travel would never happpen.
[16:17] #knownspace> dmac44: Suppose they thought they'd never interact ...
[16:18] #knownspace> Hippy: People would still risk it. Cars are dangerous, but look how many there are
[16:19] #knownspace> Lensman: dmac: Okay, then there is your story. "People always thought jumping was 100% safe. What happens when they discover it's not quite? Can the protagonist(s) figure out how to put in a safety circuit before everyone panics and economic collapse happens?"
[16:19] #knownspace> Jim: Indeed, space craft are dangerous, but look at the number of people who want to be space tourists.
[16:20] #knownspace> Lensman: Yah, but we haven't replaced highways with spaceports. If everyone is relying on that form of travel, and then suddenly everyone is afraid to use it...
[16:20] #knownspace> Lensman: There are a lot of people who would *not* fly in a spacecraft if offered the chance, too.
[16:20] #knownspace> Hippy: It would take a lot of 'Fly'-like incidents to make that happen
[16:22] #knownspace> Lensman: Would it? Look what happened when just five people were killed by anthrax sent thru the mail. Working customer service for the post office, I actually had one caller ask why we didn't stop the mail until the terrorist was caught?
[16:22] #knownspace> Lensman: People are not rational animals.
[16:22] #knownspace> Hippy: On the other hand, 350 people die every year in my State, and nobody wants to give up cars completely
[16:23] #knownspace> Lensman: It's entirely psychological. People don't fear dangers they grew up with... dangers they have gotten used to. They are far more fearful of newly discovered dangers.
[16:23] #knownspace> Jim: Hippy, it is because the steering wheel is on the wrong side.
[16:23] #knownspace> Hippy: Now, the JumpShift booths are the ultimate in convenient travel. It would take thousands of deaths or disfigurements to make people give up ulimate convenience
[16:24] #knownspace> Hippy: LOL, Jim
[16:24] #knownspace> Jim: Lensman, you are correct.
[16:24] #knownspace> dmac44: Superneutrinos contain a vast amount of information so information theory should be helpful here. Is perfect transmission of a vast amount of information possible? If so what does that saw about the laws of thermodynamics?
[16:24] #knownspace> Jim: What is a superneutrino?
[16:24] #knownspace> Lensman: Look at the furor over a few fires in the Volt electric car. Even though no one was in the cars when they caught fire. Never mind that thousands are killed every year in car fires, burning gasoline. That's a danger they are used to. Electric cars are, for most people, a new thing.
[16:25] #knownspace> dmac44: say not saw
[16:25] #knownspace> Hippy: Okay, so in the eraly days of JumpShift people would be terrified. So Jump
[16:25] #knownspace> Jim: Gasoline powered automobiles explode when they are shot with a gun. Hollywood would not lie to me.
[16:26] #knownspace> Hippy: Shift had to conceal these early disasters. But somewhere in a hidden laboratory with a private booth number there's this room full of the results. . .
[16:26] #knownspace> Jim: I suspect that Jump Booth technology would be first tested on inanimate objects for years before people would agree to be transported.
[16:26] #knownspace> Hippy: Once people got used to teleporting it would take a lot to make them give it up
[16:27] #knownspace> Lensman: Jim: The superneutrino is how Larry explains the jump booths working. Entirely unlike the Star Trek transporter. You, the passenger, are converted to a super-massive quantum particle... a superneutrino. Then you're converted back to yourself at the other end. Duplication and read/write errors are impossible.
[16:27] #knownspace> Jim: Do Jump Booths have to be connected with particle accelerators?
[16:28] #knownspace> Lensman: Altho perhaps not completely. I recall Larry agreeing that quantum uncertainty made it possible for the superneutrino to twin... so that theoretically there could be two Teela Browns!
[16:28] #knownspace> Hippy: Lucky for her
[16:29] #knownspace> Lensman: Jim: This is explained in "The Theory and Practice of Teleportation", in two or three collections of Larry's stories. Read it if you've got it.
[16:29] #knownspace> dmac44: Hippy: Lucky for Louis.
[16:29] #knownspace> Lensman: LOL
[16:31] #knownspace> dmac44: If one part of the system is prefectly transmitting information does a different part of it collect some type of uncertainty? And what happens when that uncertainty builds up?
[16:31] #knownspace> Lensman: I want one of those liquor glasses that Elephant has. With the jump motor built into the base. I wouldn't use it for liquor, tho.
[16:31] #knownspace> SeanLap: ok, time to pack up the laptop and head to the Derby Party. Enjoy!!
[16:32] #knownspace> SeanLap: the liquor glass was cool
[16:32] #knownspace> Lensman: If you had to deal with quantum uncertainty in the jump system, how could you ever make it reliable enough for people to use it every day?
[16:32] #knownspace> Jim: Lensman, with Elephant's liquor glass, one would also need Michael Jackson's sleep catherer.
[16:33] #knownspace> Lensman: Not saying that there can't be uncertainty... just saying I don't see how they could deal with it adequately.
[16:33] #knownspace> Lensman: Jim: "Thees song I do not know."
[16:33] #knownspace> dmac44: maybe that's the story. what happens when it builds up.
[16:34] #knownspace> Lensman: Jackson slept in a glass coffin pumped full of oxygen, didn't he?
[16:34] #knownspace> Jim: Sometimes, he did.
[16:34] #knownspace> Lensman: What is a "catherer"?
[16:35] #knownspace> Jim:
[16:36] #knownspace> Lensman: Well, they've been using jump booths for a long time. Why would such a problem not have been noticed before? Again, not saying it can't happen... just saying I don't see how it could.
[16:36] #knownspace> Jim: Catheter
[16:37] #knownspace> Hippy: Tasteful, Jim
[16:37] #knownspace> SolBelter: Lensman: maybe someone has discovered a new disruption of the booths...
[16:38] #knownspace> Hippy: Does uncertainty matter that much? After all, I'm changing every second but I'm still here. So if the received 'me' is slightly different to the transmitted one, so what?
[16:38] #knownspace> Hippy: I suppose once it gets too uncertain you're in trouble
[16:38] #knownspace> Lensman: I guess I've never seen the word spelled; I thought it was "catheter".
[16:39] #knownspace> Hippy: It is
[16:39] #knownspace> Lensman: SolBelter: Or maybe someone has created a device which deliberately introduces uncertainty... or static. And they're using it to blackmail JumpShift Inc.
[16:40] #knownspace> Jim: Lensman, your spelling is correct; mine was not.
[16:42] #knownspace> Lensman: Ah, the power of suggestion... I thought it was spelled "catheder" in the Wiki article when I looked at it. :)
[16:43] #knownspace> Lensman: "A difference that makes no difference is no difference." If the uncertainty is below the level at which anyone would notice any difference, then indeed who cares?
[16:43] #knownspace> Lensman: But if it's subject to chaotic variation... then how many people would be willing to risk... not their lives, but their /identity/ every day?
[16:44] #knownspace> Hippy: You've only got to look at a freeway to find out
[16:44] #knownspace> Lensman: Would you use a jump booth to go to work and back home every day if you were not sure you'd be YOU when you came out the other side?
[16:44] #knownspace> Hippy: Hmm
[16:44] #knownspace> Jim: Lensman, the tiny difference caused by an errant jump could give one cancer. However, that could be taken care of with the autodoc at the other station.
[16:45] #knownspace> Lensman: Good argument, Hippy.
[16:45] #knownspace> Hippy: It's conveninece versus risk - and the convenience is very high with a JumpShift booth
[16:46] #knownspace> Hippy: Now, if it were inevitable that you'd change, then the risk would outweight the convenience
[16:46] #knownspace> Lensman: In fact, there was a story that pointed out exactly that. That those who would be willing to use a matter transmitter would be the ones who would out-compete those who would not. Those who refused would be the losers... and would be bred out of the species. Or would be like the Amish... isolated and backward.
[16:46] #knownspace> dmac44: So, what's worth smugling in the JumpShift universe?
[16:47] #knownspace> Hippy: Anything your customs wont' allow through
[16:47] #knownspace> Hippy: Drugs, gold, children. . .
[16:47] #knownspace> dmac44: But you can go get it.
[16:47] #knownspace> Hippy: Good point
[16:47] #knownspace> dmac44: if they won't let you have it.
[16:47] #knownspace> Hippy: Actually, that is a good point
[16:47] #knownspace> Lensman: Anything the guv'mint thinks is worth taxing, or banning. Cigarettes. Liquor. Drugs, both medicine and "recreational".
[16:47] #knownspace> Hippy: Why smuggle anything? The consumer can get to it just as easily as you can smuggle it
[16:48] #knownspace> Lensman: Children, yah. THERE is a story!
[16:48] #knownspace> dmac44: laws homogenize I suspect.
[16:48] #knownspace> Hippy: Immigrant labour
[16:49] #knownspace> Hippy: Ooh! Copyright material that you can't get in your country. Take that, Amazon!!
[16:49] #knownspace> Lensman: I think the limits on immigration would disappear pretty quickly. What's the point when anyone can go anywhere?
[16:49] #knownspace> Lensman: If you can live in one country and work in another, then immigration laws become irrelevant.
[16:49] #knownspace> Hippy: Because local governments want to protect jobs for their own citizens
[16:50] #knownspace> Larry: Elephant's glass was probably stage magic.
[16:50] #knownspace> Larry: Sorry,m I dozed off. A cold.
[16:50] #knownspace> Hippy: Sorry to hear that, Larry
[16:50] #knownspace> Lensman: Be well, Larry.
[16:51] #knownspace> Lensman: Anybody try that stuff that's supposed to shorten the length of a cold? What's it called, "ColdEze" ?
[16:52] #knownspace> NickE: night Larry
[16:52] #knownspace> Lensman: So, immigration restrictions would be replaced by employment restrictions.
[16:52] #knownspace> NickE: oops
[16:52] #knownspace> Hippy: I've never heard of it, Lens. Probably need to smuggle some in
[16:52] #knownspace> Jim: Granny's cure was more effective than all this BS stuff that is on the market now.
[16:53] #knownspace> Hippy: Exactly, Lens
[16:53] #knownspace> Jim: (Will anyone catch the Beverly Hillbillies reference?)
[16:53] #knownspace> Lensman: Sounds reasonable.
[16:53] #knownspace> Hippy: Of course, this depends on how the booth system works. If I can dial a booth in the U
[16:53] #knownspace> Hippy: US as easlily as I can a phone there, then it's hard to stop me immigrating
[16:54] #knownspace> Hippy: But if I have to slip my passport into the booth somehow, then you can precent me
[16:54] #knownspace> Jim: Just as long as the foreigners are gone by nightfall.
[16:55] #knownspace> Hippy: The way to prevent smuggling would be to allow only Customs booths to be dialled from outside the country
[16:56] #knownspace> Hippy: Nobody's watching the roads, though, so you could just drive your drugs in
[16:56] #knownspace> Lensman: I seem to recall... not sure if this is right... that the long-distance booths were located in central locations, in what had been airports. So I suppose they could impose immigration restrictions there, if that's the only way you can cross a border. But there's not a hint of any requirement for a passport in any of the stories, including "Flash Crowd" where they are talking about a worldwide phenomenon.
[16:56] #knownspace> Hippy: That's right, Lens
[16:57] #knownspace> Lensman: Immigration and customs restrictions. But they are not in the story, so we must assume there simply are not any such restrictions.
[16:57] #knownspace> Hippy: So if all the long-distance booths are in airports,, it's a lot harder to get across borders
[16:58] #knownspace> Lensman: Not really. You just take a long-distance booth to the border, then a local booth to cross.
[16:58] #knownspace> Hippy: How do you get to the local booth, though?
[16:59] #knownspace> Lensman: Walk from one booth to another.
[16:59] #knownspace> Lensman: As in "The Alibi Machine".
[16:59] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, and so there'd be a Customs, Immigration and TSA guy standing between them
[17:00] #knownspace> Lensman: Well, again, this would make jumping from the USA to that place in Mexico or wherever it was that a flash mob was forming, impossible to do quickly.
[17:00] #knownspace> Lensman: It ain't the JumpShift universe.
[17:00] #knownspace> Hippy: True
[17:02] #knownspace> Lensman: Customs restrictions can only work if there are a limited number of entry points. Airports, ports, major highways. If there are jump booths everywhere, and if you can go from any one booth to any other within a certain range, then customs enforcement becomes impossible. You can't put a customs agent outside every jump booth!
[17:02] #knownspace> Hippy: Also true
[17:02] #knownspace> Lensman: Just as there are hundreds or thousands of miles of the U.S.-Canada border where you can cross on a local road. No customs booth.
[17:04] #knownspace> Hippy: Now, some years back I read a book proposing that border cities are the new economic powerhouses of the 21st century. With JumpShift booths, everywhere can become a border city
[17:05] #knownspace> Hippy: I'm loath to expand nn this at this time of the morning
[17:06] #knownspace> Hippy: Imgine legions of telemarketers not merely calling you, but visitng you to sell insurnce or whatever
[17:07] #knownspace> NickE: I'd rather not!
[17:07] #knownspace> Hippy: Scary, isn't it?
[17:08] #knownspace> Lensman: That could very quickly convert me to a gun fetishist...
[17:08] #knownspace> SolBelter: 'Spam-A-Way' AutoMachineGuns
[17:08] #knownspace> Hippy: LOL!
[17:08] #knownspace> NickE: heh
[17:09] #knownspace> SolBelter: 'keep a sales-free front lawn'
[17:09] #knownspace> SolBelter: "also directs lawn sprinklers'
[17:10] #knownspace> SolBelter: (TM)
[17:10] #knownspace> Lensman: I, too, could learn to speed-read past the 1st and 2nd clauses of the Second Amendment... ;)
[17:11] #knownspace> Larry: Rapidly, the booths were set outside locked doors. Telemarketers, burglars, etc. beware.
[17:12] #knownspace> Akiraa: we may require a modern interpretation of 1984
[17:13] #knownspace> Larry: Stepping downstairs for lunch. Back rapidly.
[17:13] #knownspace> Akiraa: a technodictatorship, but where the basic necessities are still supplied
[17:13] #knownspace> Akiraa: and the populace is kept content with drugs and propaganda
[17:14] #knownspace> Lensman: "THX-1138"
[17:14] #knownspace> Lensman: Exactly what you describe. Drugs and propaganda.
[17:15] #knownspace> Akiraa: well, the state still looks too brutal
[17:15] #knownspace> Akiraa: it needs to present a softer, more benevolent image
[17:15] #knownspace> Akiraa: s/image/face
[17:15] #knownspace> Hippy: The velvet glove control of 'Brave New World'
[17:16] #knownspace> Lensman: Altho that was surreal. Too far removed from anything you could really identify with to have the visceral impact of /Nineteen Eighty-Four/.
[17:17] #knownspace> Lensman: I confess I don't really remember much of /Brave New World/.
[17:17] #knownspace> Hippy: Nor me. But I have to re-read too much Niven to get back into Huxley now
[17:18] #knownspace> Akiraa: huxley thinks humans are perverted by their search of happiness
[17:18] #knownspace> Akiraa: or that was my impression of BNW
[17:18] #knownspace> Hippy: I'd never considred that
[17:20] #knownspace> Akiraa: there was a woody allen film in the similar vein
[17:20] #knownspace> Akiraa: Sleeper
[17:20] #knownspace> Akiraa: worth watching
[17:21] #knownspace> Hippy: It had its moments
[17:23] #knownspace> Hippy: Don't everyone talk at once
[17:24] #knownspace> dmac44: The superneutrino is a form of lossless data encoding. Information theory uses the Shannon Coding theorem to calculate the entropy associated with encoding. I'm not a scientist or engineer so I'm blue-skying here but my gut says that there's something there in the way of a story.
[17:25] #knownspace> dmac44: Or maybe just the name of a character.
[17:27] #knownspace> Jim:
[17:28] #knownspace> Lensman: I was getting some dinner, too.
[17:28] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, I should think about getting some breakfast
[17:28] #knownspace> Jim: Yes, I have got to go also.
[17:28] #knownspace> Jim: bye
[17:28] #knownspace> fredskuentz: mexican food run
[17:28] #knownspace> fredskuentz: celebrating our rich local cultural heritage with taco bell
[17:29] #knownspace> Lensman: "Sleeper" didn't do much for me. But then, no Woody Allen movie does.
[17:29] #knownspace> Lensman: Altho I did enjoy "What's Up, Tiger Lily?"
[17:29] #knownspace> Hippy: I was gong to wish everyone a happy Cinco de Mayo or whatever it is, but nobody else mentioned it
[17:29] #knownspace> Larry: I loved "Sleeper".
[17:29] #knownspace> fredskuentz: It's SuperMoon
[17:29] #knownspace> fredskuentz: so Cinco De Luna
[17:29] #knownspace> fredskuentz: or
[17:29] #knownspace> Hippy: "Take the Money and Run' is fantastic
[17:29] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Cinco de Moono
[17:30] #knownspace> Akiraa: how do these whackos come out of the woodwork so predictibly?
[17:30] #knownspace> fredskuentz: we saw SLEEPER in a drive in, and were laughing so hard I got a headache and had to walk it off
[17:30] #knownspace> Larry: Yeah. Happy Cinco de Mayo, all you survivors, and welcome to Los Angeles!
[17:30] #knownspace> fredskuentz: what wackos akiraa?
[17:31] #knownspace> Akiraa: the lunatic astrology doomsayers
[17:31] #knownspace> Lensman: You talkin' to us, Akiraa?
[17:31] #knownspace> Akiraa: no, lol
[17:31] #knownspace> fredskuentz: yeah, I thought he meant 'niven chatters'
[17:31] #knownspace> Lensman: <DiNero voice>You talkin' to ME?!?!
[17:31] #knownspace> Lensman: :)
[17:31] #knownspace> fredskuentz: how do they know to be here the first saturday of the month?
[17:31] #knownspace> fredskuentz: it's almost as though ... they knew
[17:31] #knownspace> Hippy: And Happy Birthday for last Monday, Larry! (How could I have forgot that/)
[17:31] #knownspace> Lensman: We have friends in low places.
[17:31] #knownspace> Lensman: ;)
[17:34] #knownspace> Lensman: Didn't mean to kill the chat...
[17:35] #knownspace> Larry: Farewell, all you Niven chatterers. I should work.
[17:35] #knownspace> fredskuentz: good luck with the story larry
[17:35] #knownspace> fredskuentz: happy bday
[17:35] #knownspace> dmac44: Bye Larry
[17:35] #knownspace> fredskuentz: and thanks for all the other stories
[17:35] #knownspace> Hippy: "Bye, Larry. Hope you get better soon
[17:35] #knownspace> Lensman: Indeed! Happy Birthday Larry, and goodbye
[17:36] #knownspace> Lensman: Too late...
[17:36] #knownspace> fredskuentz: 2L8
[17:36] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, I shall be silent for a bit as I munch on my cereal, but I'll still be reading
[17:36] #knownspace> dmac44: Lens: You mean Schrodinger's chat? :)
[17:38] #knownspace> dmac44: Hasta manana guys.
[17:38] #knownspace> Lensman: Schroedinger's LOLcat. I can haz quantum sooperposishun.
[17:39] #knownspace> Akiraa: schrodinger is the only one who can have his cake and eat it too
[17:39] #knownspace> dmac44: lol
[17:40] #knownspace> dmac44: I'm heading out too. See everyone next month.
[17:46] #knownspace> NickE: oops, missed a few leaving (was always going to be intermittent today)
[17:49] #knownspace> Hippy: So, has anyone read 'The Secret of Blackship Island' yet?
[17:51] #knownspace> NickE: afk
[17:51] #knownspace> Lensman: Not I.
[17:52] #knownspace> Lensman: I don't own an e-book reader, so I'll wait for the dead tree version.
[17:52] #knownspace> Hippy: I had intended to finish it before today's chat, but didn't, so I didn't mention it earlier. It's good, though
[17:52] #knownspace> Hippy: If there'll be one. Lets hope
[17:53] #knownspace> Lensman: Hopefully it will be in the next Niven omnibus.
[17:54] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, yes. The ebook version has a list of Niven works in it, and one is called 'The Time of the Watlock'. What's that got in it?
[17:56] #knownspace> Lensman: It's got a few Warlock's Era stories, and a couple of "author's notes" type pieces.
[17:56] #knownspace> Lensman: You can look the title up in the Bibliography at
[17:59] #knownspace> Hippy: Which I should've done. Just read a review at Amazon
[17:59] #knownspace> Hippy: They want $169.95 for it, so I think I shan't indulge :)
[18:00] #knownspace> Lensman: Exqueeze me-- $170 FOR AN E-BOOK!?!?
[18:00] #knownspace> Lensman: Are you serious?
[18:01] #knownspace> Hippy: No, this is a hardvoer from 1984
[18:01] #knownspace> Hippy: Some ebooks are getting pricey, though
[18:01] #knownspace> Lensman: Wow, I had better put my copy in a wrapper! I had no idea it's so valuable.
[18:01] #knownspace> Hippy: Nor did I
[18:02] #knownspace> Lensman: Sitting here eating spaghetti and thumbing thru my copy. Not a good idea, if it's that valuable!
[18:02] #knownspace> Hippy: Good God, sacrilege!
[18:03] #knownspace> Lensman: It is a very nice book. Interior illustrations, and they are very nice too.
[18:03] #knownspace> Lensman: I hang my head in shame, Hippy.
[18:03] #knownspace> Lensman: I shall do penance by drawing a pentacle on my belly.
[18:04] #knownspace> Hippy: LOL!
[18:04] #knownspace> Lensman: See, I knew you'd get the reference.
[18:04] #knownspace> Hippy: I don't know, I've been making a few mistakes today
[18:05] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I bought too much Mexican food
[18:05] #knownspace> fredskuentz: and they screwed up my order
[18:05] #knownspace> Hippy: But I did get 'Convergent Series'
[18:05] #knownspace> Lensman: I only noticed one.
[18:05] #knownspace> fredskuentz: so they gave me extra to make up for it
[18:05] #knownspace> fredskuentz: so now I have WAY too much Mexican food
[18:05] #knownspace> fredskuentz: :)
[18:05] #knownspace> Hippy: Never a better day for it, though, Fred
[18:06] #knownspace> Lensman: That's what the freezer is for. Unless it's got lettuce in it.
[18:06] #knownspace> Hippy: The second error was not remembering 'The Alibi Machine', Lens
[18:07] #knownspace> Hippy: Unforgivable, I call it
[18:07] #knownspace> Lensman: I didn't notice that.
[18:08] #knownspace> Lensman: Actually I get that one and "A *Kind* of Murder" mixed up.
[18:08] #knownspace> Hippy: Now that I think of it, I didn't actually mention anything. It was just that when you mentioned it, I thought 'What the hell is he taling about?'
[18:08] #knownspace> Lensman: So I might have identified the wrong story.
[18:08] #knownspace> Hippy: I'm going to sit down today afte the footy and re-read them
[18:10] AlexA has joined #knownspace
[18:10] #knownspace> Hippy: Hi, AlexA
[18:10] #knownspace> NickE: Xander, why do you always do this? I'm just about off to bed
[18:10] #knownspace> AlexA: Hi
[18:10] #knownspace> SolBelter: ok folks, have a good Sunday!
[18:11] #knownspace> Lensman: Frankly, tho, I'm not all that enthralled with the JumpShift crime stories. I far prefer "Flash Crowd"-- one of my very favorite Nivens-- and "All the Bridges Rusting".
[18:11] #knownspace> NickE: by Sol
[18:11] #knownspace> AlexA: I forgot (again)!
[18:11] #knownspace> Hippy: Bye, Sol
[18:11] #knownspace> NickE: missed a very interesting discussion with Larry
[18:11] #knownspace> fredskuentz: lol, I though 'by Sol' was an oath
[18:11] #knownspace> NickE: read the log when its up
[18:11] #knownspace> fredskuentz: like 'By Crom!'
[18:11] #knownspace> NickE: heh, missed an e
[18:11] #knownspace> AlexA: Subject?
[18:11] #knownspace> Lensman: Alex: We have to stop meeting like this!
[18:12] #knownspace> Hippy: The JumpShift universe
[18:12] #knownspace> Lensman: Alex, you should ask Sean to put you on the e-mail alert list.
[18:12] #knownspace> AlexA: Have you all seen The Avengers yet?
[18:12] #knownspace> Hippy: Ah, no
[18:12] #knownspace> NickE: wasnt it great!
[18:13] #knownspace> NickE: ok no spoilers
[18:13] #knownspace> NickE: Very good tho
[18:13] #knownspace> Lensman: Not yet, but looking at the reviews-- nearly all the audiences AND the critics love it!
[18:13] #knownspace> Hippy: What did Sol mean by 'have a good Sunday'? I thought I was the only one having a Sunday
[18:13] #knownspace> AlexA: Ok I'll avoid being spoilerific
[18:13] #knownspace> AlexA: It's amazing
[18:13] #knownspace> NickE: yep
[18:14] #knownspace> AlexA: Worth seeing in 3d IMHO
[18:14] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, if you all liked it myabe I'm turned around the subject
[18:14] #knownspace> Lensman: Hippy: Contrary to popular belief, there is more than one SF fan south of the equator. In fact, I have it on good authority that more than one WorldCon has been held in Oz.
[18:14] #knownspace> NickE: great script, eye candy of course, but nice balanced story that actually made sense!
[18:14] #knownspace> fredskuentz: we're taking a friend's son so we're having to work out school schedules and such
[18:14] #knownspace> NickE: Joss totally *nailed* it
[18:14] #knownspace> Hippy: Four, in factg, Lens
[18:14] #knownspace> fredskuentz: but I will see THE AVENGERS
[18:14] #knownspace> fredskuentz: in a theater
[18:14] #knownspace> fredskuentz: my first movie theater excursion of this century
[18:15] #knownspace> AlexA: Usually I don't notice 3d after first few minutes, but in avengers it "worked" throughout
[18:15] #knownspace> Lensman: We look forward to you telling us how awful it is, Fred. ;)
[18:15] #knownspace> Hippy: But I thought Euan and I were the only ones on this chat
[18:15] #knownspace> NickE: I think you'l think it's worth it
[18:15] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Can I tell you know how terrible Dark Shadows is instead?
[18:15] #knownspace> fredskuentz: now
[18:15] #knownspace> Lensman: Seriously, I didn't know SolBelter was a southern hemisphere guy, either.
[18:16] #knownspace> NickE: I *hate* 3D, but tend to agree, this wasn't overdone and I stopped ebing bothered by it cos teh movie was so bloody good
[18:16] #knownspace> AlexA: Humour always plays better as a shared experience - there's quite a few laughs
[18:16] #knownspace> Lensman: I think the preview for "Dark Shadows" makes it the first Tim Burton movie I really don't have any interest in seeing.
[18:16] #knownspace> NickE: I'me sure Drak Shadows sucked rocks
[18:16] #knownspace> NickE: also saw trailer. Agree.
[18:17] #knownspace> AlexA: The DS trailer didn't inspire me
[18:17] #knownspace> AlexA: My 7yo wanted to see it though!
[18:18] #knownspace> Lensman: And WTF is with Burton putting Depp in every single one of his movies... except the Batman films? I mean, I like Johnny Depp just fine, and he is fantastic as Jack Sparrow. But there *are* other actors in the world!
[18:18] #knownspace> fredskuentz: actually Depp brought Burton into this one
[18:18] #knownspace> AlexA: I want to rewatch Avengers, hard to arrange though :/
[18:18] #knownspace> NickE: yes, so feckin expensive over here
[18:19] #knownspace> NickE: like over 10 quid a ticket in Banbury FFS!
[18:19] #knownspace> fredskuentz: the digital 3d DBox is $20 a ticket
[18:19] #knownspace> Lensman: I actually did watch one season of DS on TV. The color season. Wow, talk about dull! Not to mention abysmal production values, and the actor who played Barnabas Collins kept stumbling over his lines! Obviously they couldn't afford re-takes...
[18:19] #knownspace> NickE: plus the 3 quid surcharge for soddin 3d and a quid for glasses, if it wasnt for Orage Wednesdays, I would have waited for teh DVD
[18:20] #knownspace> AlexA: Slightly miffed about the extra scene US got (saw it on YouTube tho)
[18:20] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Lensman, it's not 'afford'
[18:20] #knownspace> NickE: say wat
[18:20] #knownspace> fredskuentz: DS was effectively live, like all soap operas of the era
[18:20] #knownspace> NickE: ? will have to look for that
[18:20] #knownspace> Lensman: Fred: Okay, I'm listening. Pls explain.
[18:21] #knownspace> fredskuentz: okay
[18:21] #knownspace> fredskuentz: soaps of the era
[18:21] #knownspace> fredskuentz: went out live
[18:21] #knownspace> AlexA: My local Vue doesn't charge for glasses, but still >£10
[18:21] #knownspace> fredskuentz: if you threw up during a scene, that's what the audience got
[18:21] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Dark Shadows was the same, with one exception
[18:21] #knownspace> Hippy: I'd've watched that
[18:21] #knownspace> Lensman: Okay, so why did they go out live?
[18:21] #knownspace> fredskuentz: it was delayed (two weeks IIRC) for special FX to be added
[18:22] #knownspace> fredskuentz: but the live action takes were still effectively live
[18:22] #knownspace> NickE: aaaanyhoo. Time for bed, long day, pleasure as always folks, good chat, buzzin ideas, keep it up, Hopefully catch you all next month
[18:22] #knownspace> NickE: night
[18:22] #knownspace> Lensman: And yes, I was wondering how they'd add the (truly awful) FX if it was a live broadcast.
[18:22] #knownspace> AlexA: 'night NickE
[18:22] #knownspace> Hippy: Night, Nick. Good luck in West Africa
[18:22] #knownspace> Lensman: Honestly, the bat puppet on a string in "Love at First Bite" was a better effect!
[18:23] #knownspace> AlexA: I assume shot *as* live but shown later
[18:23] #knownspace> NickE: East Africa, Kenya doncha know :-)
[18:23] #knownspace> AlexA: Early Doctor Who was the same
[18:23] #knownspace> fredskuentz: and video tape was all but impossible to edit at the time
[18:23] #knownspace> Hippy: Sorry, thought you'd said Senegal
[18:23] #knownspace> NickE: cheers peeps
[18:23] #knownspace> fredskuentz: so there wasn't any splicing and dicing
[18:23] #knownspace> fredskuentz: night
[18:24] #knownspace> AlexA: I hope well clear of Somali border :/
[18:24] #knownspace> Lensman: Oh, they couldn't edit the tape. That explains it, thanks.
[18:24] #knownspace> fredskuentz: sure
[18:25] #knownspace> fredskuentz: they actually edited video tape with a razor blade
[18:25] #knownspace> fredskuentz: on a bias
[18:25] #knownspace> AlexA: You *could* edit it, but very expensive
[18:25] #knownspace> fredskuentz: by looking at the tape for minute changes that indicated a scene change
[18:26] #knownspace> Lensman: And then after watching the whole tanj crappy season faithfully... well, mostly... I managed to miss the climactic episode where Collins gets turned into a vampire! I would like all those hours of my life back.
[18:26] #knownspace> fredskuentz: lol, wait
[18:27] #knownspace> fredskuentz: oh, you watched a flashback
[18:27] #knownspace> Lensman: No, can't wait-- it's being filmed as live!
[18:27] #knownspace> Lensman: Yes, the color season, set in the past.
[18:27] #knownspace> AlexA: Who spent a week doing reversals to get it right for cameras
[18:27] #knownspace> Lensman: Whole season was a flashback.
[18:28] #knownspace> AlexA: If you get classic DW DVDs extras & commentaries explain more
[18:28] #knownspace> Lensman: Or rather, taped as live.
[18:29] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Dark Shadows, Frid got his lines that morning, a couple hours before they shot live
[18:30] #knownspace> AlexA: Why so late?
[18:30] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I guess 'cause they were making it up as they went
[18:31] #knownspace> fredskuentz: one problem with being on air every day is you never have down time to get ahead
[18:31] #knownspace> AlexA: Was it broadcast daily?
[18:31] #knownspace> fredskuentz: and on soaps you're constantly adjusting for who is and isn't available that day
[18:31] #knownspace> Lensman: Sounds like an excuse for him stumbling over his lines to me. Why did none of the other actors have the same problem?
[18:31] #knownspace> fredskuentz: yes, M-F
[18:31] #knownspace> fredskuentz: 200 days a year
[18:31] #knownspace> Lensman: Yes, daytime soap, every week day.
[18:31] #knownspace> AlexA: Ah that explains it
[18:31] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Lens, Frid is the first to tell you that he's a slow stufy
[18:32] #knownspace> AlexA: Grueling schedule!
[18:32] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Compare and contrast his performance in the movie, HOUSE OF DARK SHADOWS
[18:32] #knownspace> fredskuentz: where he turns in an excellent performance
[18:32] #knownspace> Hippy: Didn't 'Frid just recently die?
[18:32] #knownspace> fredskuentz: yes
[18:32] #knownspace> fredskuentz: the joke is
[18:32] #knownspace> fredskuentz: the new movie killed him
[18:32] #knownspace> Hippy: Ah. . .
[18:32] #knownspace> fredskuentz: or burton killed him to keep him from speaking out about it
[18:33] #knownspace> Lensman: Well, I guess I should watch "House of Dark Shadows" if I ever have the chance to catch it on TV... for free.
[18:33] #knownspace> fredskuentz: it's a good little horror film
[18:33] #knownspace> fredskuentz: no flashback stuff
[18:33] #knownspace> Lensman: Hmmm. Not a nice joke.
[18:33] #knownspace> fredskuentz: but basically tells the first Barnabas arc
[18:33] #knownspace> fredskuentz: with one major difference
[18:37] #knownspace> Hippy: Which is?
[18:38] #knownspace> AlexA: Crickets...
[18:38] #knownspace> Hippy: Ah. . .
[18:38] #knownspace> AlexA: I guess fred's AFK
[18:38] #knownspace> Lensman: Teenage mutant ninja crickets?
[18:39] #knownspace> Lensman: Yes, Fred planted a verbal hook and then left.
[18:39] #knownspace> Hippy: Ah, yes, now i get you, AlexA
[18:39] #knownspace> Hippy: Silence is golden, Fred, but we're on tenterhooks here
[18:39] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I was waiting to see if you objected to spoilers
[18:40] #knownspace> Hippy: Not me
[18:40] #knownspace> Lensman: Not me.
[18:40] #knownspace> fredskuentz: k
[18:40] #knownspace> Lensman: In this case.
[18:40] #knownspace> fredskuentz: in the original
[18:40] #knownspace> fredskuentz: there were lots of close calls
[18:40] #knownspace> fredskuentz: somebody would *almost* get bitten
[18:40] #knownspace> fredskuentz: in the movie
[18:40] #knownspace> fredskuentz: almost nobody gets out alive :)
[18:40] #knownspace> Hippy: Ah
[18:41] #knownspace> AlexA: Lensman: Has LN confirmed how Louis Wu pronounces his name?
[18:41] #knownspace> fredskuentz: looeewu
[18:41] #knownspace> fredskuentz: sadly
[18:42] #knownspace> fredskuentz: no 's'
[18:42] #knownspace> Lensman: Alex: As Chmee prounounces it in RWE.
[18:42] #knownspace> AlexA: I'm pretty sure it's French style
[18:42] #knownspace> Lensman: As Fred says.
[18:42] #knownspace> Lensman: Oops, that's Chmeee.
[18:42] #knownspace> AlexA: This came up on the LN list recently
[18:42] #knownspace> Lensman: What, again? :)
[18:42] #knownspace> AlexA: That's what I thought
[18:42] #knownspace> AlexA: Yeap!
[18:43] #knownspace> Lensman: Was just being snarky. The same questions crop up again and again on *every* list, as new people join.
[18:43] #knownspace> fredskuentz: and old people are exiled
[18:43] #knownspace> Lensman: What? Surely not! ;)
[18:43] #knownspace> AlexA: At least the definition of atheism hasn't come up for a while!
[18:44] #knownspace> Hippy: But, surely if you see 'Luweewu' in the books there'd be no doubt of how it's pronounced
[18:44] #knownspace> fredskuentz: yes and no
[18:44] #knownspace> fredskuentz: chmee was recovering at the time
[18:44] #knownspace> fredskuentz: and slurrying his speech
[18:44] #knownspace> Lensman: That's right, there are two people who pronounce it phonetically, so it's not like there's much doubt.
[18:44] #knownspace> fredskuentz: and interworld isn't his first language
[18:45] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I don't think we ever hear a human native speaker say it
[18:45] #knownspace> Lensman: But he speaks excellent Interworld, and he kept trying until he pronounced it correctly... as I recall, anyway.
[18:45] #knownspace> Hippy: The Weaver people say it
[18:45] #knownspace> fredskuentz: A Ringworlder asks if his name is pronounced 'loueewu' and Louis says 'close enough'
[18:45] #knownspace> Lensman: The librarian called him "Looeewu" or some such.
[18:46] #knownspace> AlexA: Well the fact that Larry used "Louis" not "Lewis" is circumstantial support
[18:46] #knownspace> fredskuentz: No, Lens, Chmee say something like "looewoo rrrrr uuuu wirehead ..."
[18:46] #knownspace> Hippy: Ungle
[18:46] #knownspace> fredskuentz: hah!
[18:46] #knownspace> fredskuentz: excellent reply
[18:46] #knownspace> fredskuentz: :)
[18:46] #knownspace> Lensman: He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!
[18:47] #knownspace> Hippy: You realise I'll now have to search the texts for reference. Egad
[18:48] #knownspace> AlexA: That reminds me, are we looking forward to Trek2?
[18:48] #knownspace> fredskuentz: god no
[18:48] #knownspace> Lensman: "Now the paralyed kzin cleared his throat experimentally and rumbled, 'Loo-ee Woo."
[18:49] #knownspace> Lensman: Well it's not like it' hard for me to find that reference. I didn't even have to do a text search 'cuz I knew exactly where it was.
[18:49] #knownspace> fredskuentz: cool that you have an etext of the book
[18:50] #knownspace> Lensman: E-texts make reference work much, much easier. Altho they aren't perfect 'cuz they are not checked for spelling errors.
[18:50] #knownspace> Hippy: As do I, and Sawur calls him Luweewu in Ringworld Throne
[18:50] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I suggest this
[18:50] #knownspace> fredskuentz: we listen to the audio books
[18:50] #knownspace> AlexA: A pity one has to go get them "unofficially" :/
[18:51] #knownspace> fredskuentz: and however the guy pronounces it there
[18:51] #knownspace> fredskuentz: is wrong
[18:51] #knownspace> fredskuentz: :)
[18:51] #knownspace> Hippy: LOL!
[18:51] #knownspace> Lensman: Yes, Alex. I would be happy to pay for an authorized text edition.
[18:51] #knownspace> Hippy: Me, too
[18:51] #knownspace> Lensman: As it is, I have to settle for raising the skull-and-crossbones.
[18:52] #knownspace> AlexA: JerryP is gradually getting his own stuff out as ebooks
[18:52] #knownspace> AlexA: Maybe he will encourage Larry to do the same?
[18:52] #knownspace> Lensman: But I do have legal, dead-tree versions of all the books. In many cases, multiple copies in different editions. So I don't feel *too* guilty. Larry has my money!
[18:52] #knownspace> Hippy: We can but hope
[18:52] #knownspace> AlexA: Of course depends on who has rights
[18:53] #knownspace> fredskuentz: listening
[18:53] #knownspace> fredskuentz: LOL
[18:53] #knownspace> AlexA: Might be worth asking LN at next chat
[18:53] #knownspace> fredskuentz: the reader says 'louis'
[18:53] #knownspace> Hippy: I think he said last month that 'contracts lapse' so we can probably expect to see more in future
[18:53] #knownspace> Lensman: Alex: So you're gonna show up on time next time so you can ask, right? <nudge nudge>
[18:53] #knownspace> fredskuentz: everytime except when chmee specifically says 'looeewo' as cited above
[18:54] #knownspace> fredskuentz: the next time chmee says it, it's "louis" again
[18:54] #knownspace> fredskuentz: "louis" every time but that one
[18:54] #knownspace> Hippy: By which you mean 'Loo iss', I assume
[18:54] #knownspace> fredskuentz: ssssssi
[18:54] #knownspace> fredskuentz: yesssssss
[18:54] #knownspace> Hippy: How sibilant of you
[18:54] #knownspace> AlexA: All The Codominium books are available as ebooks from Baen
[18:55] #knownspace> AlexA: So some LN content
[18:56] #knownspace> fredskuentz: ack
[18:56] #knownspace> fredskuentz: reader says chmee wrong
[18:57] #knownspace> fredskuentz: he says it like he's jewish
[18:57] #knownspace> fredskuentz: hymie
[18:58] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, gawd
[18:58] #knownspace> Hippy: Incidentally, what does the 'Todos' in 'Todos Santos' mean?
[18:58] #knownspace> fredskuentz: he's doing a bad falsetto for the Hindmost too
[18:59] #knownspace> Hippy: Stop, Fred, stop!
[18:59] #knownspace> fredskuentz: all
[18:59] #knownspace> fredskuentz: todos santos = all saints
[18:59] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh
[19:00] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I'm full enough of Taco Bell to be confident of my Spanish right now
[19:00] #knownspace> fredskuentz: :D
[19:00] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, that has given me surprisingly little more insight than I already had, but gracias anyway
[19:01] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Okay, the Hindmost say "Louissss" too
[19:01] #knownspace> fredskuentz: in a bad falsetto
[19:01] #knownspace> fredskuentz: hey! He got Harlaloprillalar right
[19:02] #knownspace> Lensman: "Todos Santos" would translate as "All Saints", I think.
[19:02] #knownspace> Lensman: "Halrloprillalar".
[19:02] #knownspace> Lensman: Oh, Fred got there first on translating the Spanish.
[19:02] #knownspace> fredskuentz: heh
[19:02] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I was about to argue with you
[19:02] #knownspace> fredskuentz: too late now
[19:03] #knownspace> Lensman: Shoulda got Lana Turner to do Nessus or Hindmost's voice. "I'm not bad... I'm just drawn that way!"
[19:04] #knownspace> fredskuentz: he stumbled over prill's name the second time
[19:04] #knownspace> fredskuentz: obviously no retakes
[19:04] #knownspace> fredskuentz: what is this, dark shadows?
[19:04] #knownspace> Lensman: LOL
[19:04] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Lens, I'm thinking Kathleen Turner
[19:05] #knownspace> Lensman: Er, that's what I meant, of course. That was a Jessica Rabbit quote.
[19:05] #knownspace> fredskuentz: heh
[19:05] #knownspace> Lensman: You know... Kathleen. Nicknamed "Lana". :D
[19:07] #knownspace> Lensman: Re "Todos Santos": Well, it's at the outskirts of Los Angeles. Other cities in the region are Santa Monica, Santa Cruz, etc. Seems they are just continuing the naming convention.
[19:07] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, you got Larry to agree to that so I can't complain
[19:07] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, yes, definitely. I just thought it meant Tower' or something like that
[19:08] #knownspace> Lensman: What I find bizarre is that Larry said "contralto" and then mentioned Marilyn Monroe. She was definitely a soprano!
[19:08] #knownspace> fredskuentz: I don't think 'soprano' referred to Marilyn
[19:09] #knownspace> Lensman: Who got Larry to agree to what?
[19:09] #knownspace> fredskuentz: she was just an example of a voice that could launch a thousand ships
[19:09] #knownspace> fredskuentz: Lorilei Huntz wasn't exactly a contralto either
[19:09] #knownspace> Hippy: You, Lens, got Larry to agree to Kathleen Turner doing the voice of Nessus
[19:10] #knownspace> Lensman: If I recall correctly, Larry said he always imagined Nessus sounding like Marilyn Monroe.
[19:10] #knownspace> Lensman: Hippy: Obviously your memory is better than mine. (Not that this is much of a challenge.)
[19:10] #knownspace> fredskuentz: he said 'harvey mossbauer' right
[19:10] #knownspace> fredskuentz: seriously
[19:11] #knownspace> Hippy: I remember it because you got him to agree before I could pitch any alternatives )
[19:11] #knownspace> fredskuentz: was this guy PAID to read this?
[19:11] #knownspace> fredskuentz: 'cause he's frankly awful
[19:11] #knownspace> Lensman: Hippy: Oh, I believe you. Just don't remember that.
[19:11] #knownspace> Lensman: What's with all the Jewish jokes? I guess I'm just a mensch...
[19:11] #knownspace> Hippy: It's only tha that helps me remember, not because my memory's good )
[19:12] #knownspace> Hippy: I store all these slighs up, you know, and one day. . .
[19:12] #knownspace> Lensman: LOL!
[19:12] #knownspace> AlexA: How does the Kindle text to speach handle SF names?
[19:12] #knownspace> Lensman: Maybe I should be glad you live a coupla continents away?
[19:12] #knownspace> Hippy: Not too badly
[19:12] #knownspace> Lensman: "Poorly"
[19:12] #knownspace> Hippy: It doesn't handle Sindarin too well
[19:12] #knownspace> Lensman: *rimshot*
[19:13] #knownspace> Hippy: But 'Halrloprillalar' wasn't a problem
[19:13] #knownspace> Lensman: I confess, someone on the list once corrected me when I misspelled "Halrloprillalar". That has helped me remember.
[19:14] #knownspace> Hippy: I live a couple of continents away now, Lens, but I'll be close by Kanasa in July
[19:14] #knownspace> Lensman: Well, if you want to visit, we have a couple of spare bedrooms.
[19:14] #knownspace> Lensman: And you'd be quite welcome to use them.
[19:14] #knownspace> Hippy: It would be like having a distributed house, Lens :)
[19:14] #knownspace> Lensman: Altho it sounds like I'd best secure the knives...
[19:15] #knownspace> Hippy: Hehehe
[19:16] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, on that threatening note, everyone, it's time for me to do some housework
[19:16] #knownspace> Lensman: Buy, Hippy. Glad you're doing better, health-wise.
[19:16] #knownspace> Hippy: See you all next month, right AlexA???
[19:16] #knownspace> Lensman: Er... bye!
[19:16] #knownspace> Lensman: Must be getting tired, I know better.
[19:16] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, everyone buy Hippy! I want my value to skyrocket
[19:17] #knownspace> AlexA: Bye Hippy
[19:17] #knownspace> Hippy: Health is much better, Lens, thanks
[19:18] #knownspace> Hippy: Bye, Fred,
[19:18] #knownspace> Hippy: Bye AlexA
[19:18] #knownspace> Hippy: Bye, Lens
[19:25] #knownspace> fredskuentz: is hippy having health problems?
[19:52] #knownspace> Lensman: Hippy was having severe eye problems. Was even using a text-to-speech book reader for awhile.
[19:53] #knownspace> Lensman: I don't quite remember the details. Detached retina? Anyway, his vision slowly cleared up after some surgery.
[19:54] #knownspace> fredskuentz: good
[19:56] #knownspace> AlexA: I'm going to hit the sack
[19:56] #knownspace> AlexA: See you in a month :)
[20:22] #knownspace> fredskuentz: asymetrical beard
[20:22] #knownspace> fredskuentz:
[20:25] #knownspace> Lensman: That's not a beard... that's a guy who has mistaken a punctuation mark for facial hair!
[20:34] xihr has joined #knownspace