Chat Log: Chat Log: July 4th 2009

[05:28] PhilHibbs has joined #knownspace

[05:29] #knownspace> PhilHibbs: testing

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[08:49] #knownspace> UncleNasty: mornin

[09:03] #knownspace> UncleNasty: .ety flout

[09:03] #knownspace> Outsider: "1551, perhaps a special use of M.E. flowten 'to play the flute' (cf. M.Du. fluyten 'to play the flute,' also 'to jeer')." -

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[11:08] #knownspace> AlexA: Hiya, I guess I'm a bit early

[11:08] #knownspace> AlexA: .t bst

[11:08] #knownspace> Outsider: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 16:08:46 BST

[11:08] #knownspace> UncleNasty: hey alex

[11:09] #knownspace> AlexA: Hi

[11:09] #knownspace> Louis_Wu: Greetings :)

[11:09] #knownspace> UncleNasty: hi Louis_Wu

[11:09] #knownspace> AlexA: Re the topic - it's actually hot here

[11:10] #knownspace> Louis_Wu: Its warm here also

[11:10] #knownspace> UncleNasty: my folks are visiting from the UK and they've brought the cold wet crap with them ;)

[11:10] #knownspace> AlexA: .g icao Boscombe Down

[11:10] #knownspace> Outsider: AlexA:

[11:10] #knownspace> AlexA: .w egdm

[11:10] #knownspace> Outsider: Couldn't get any definitions for egdm.

[11:11] #knownspace> AlexA: .weather egdm

[11:11] #knownspace> Outsider: Clear ☼, 23℃, 1012mb, Some Precipitation, Moderate breeze 11kt (↑) - EGDM, 15:50, 1450Z

[11:11] #knownspace> UncleNasty: .weather CYYZ

[11:11] #knownspace> Outsider: Clear ☼, 66.2℉ (19℃), 29.96in (1011mb), Moderate breeze 15kt (↑) - CYYZ 11:00, 1500Z

[11:11] #knownspace> AlexA: ^here

[11:12] #knownspace> UncleNasty: I'm still really proud of outsider

[11:13] #knownspace> UncleNasty: i realize I'm not responsible for the bulk of his functionality, but the biblio plugin is still cool :)

[11:13] #knownspace> AlexA: Indeed. Beating u by 4 deg C

[11:13] #knownspace> Louis_Wu: Unc: Lots of typing ?

[11:14] #knownspace> UncleNasty: nope - linked it into the database on the site

[11:14] #knownspace> AlexA: Can u query what collections a story is in?

[11:14] #knownspace> Louis_Wu: Excellent! :)

[11:14] #knownspace> UncleNasty: lots of kludged stripping of html to make it display in IRC though

[11:14] #knownspace> AlexA: For example

[11:14] #knownspace> AlexA: .biblio meddler

[11:14] #knownspace> UncleNasty: .biblio characters louis wu

[11:14] #knownspace> Outsider: There is a Tide (1968-06) : First appearance of Louis Wu and his "sabbaticals," as well as Trinocs.

[11:14] #knownspace> Outsider: Ringworld (1970-10) : Niven's best-known novel brings together Nessus & Louis Wu from previous Known Space stories Ringworld has spawned 3 sequels and a role-playing game, among other things. Though it was first printed in 1970, it appears farther down the list in Niven's published bibliographies.

[11:14] #knownspace> Outsider: Ringworld Engineers, The (1979-07) : First evidence of the Pak on the Ringworld 1st Sequel to Ringworld

[11:14] #knownspace> Outsider: Meddler, The (1968-10) : sci-fi noir crime mash-up

[11:14] #knownspace> Outsider: Ringworld Throne, The (1996-06) : Louis encounters more Pak Protectors 2nd sequel to Ringworld

[11:14] #knownspace> Outsider: Ringworld's Children (2004-06) : 3rd Sequel to Ringworld

[11:15] #knownspace> Louis_Wu: uh oh

[11:15] #knownspace> UncleNasty: lol

[11:15] #knownspace> UncleNasty: rerun that AlexA

[11:15] #knownspace> AlexA: .biblio meddler

[11:15] #knownspace> Outsider: Meddler, The (1968-10) : sci-fi noir crime mash-up

[11:15] #knownspace> UncleNasty: by default it searched titles - you can specify notes, characters, etc

[11:15] #knownspace> AlexA: Doesn't say what collections

[11:16] #knownspace> Louis_Wu: Hmmmm

[11:16] #knownspace> AlexA: .biblio notes meddler

[11:16] #knownspace> Outsider: Shape of Space, The (1969-01) : Early Niven Collection, later combined into Convergent Series.

[11:16] #knownspace> UncleNasty: checking the biblio to see if I'm stripping something I shouldn't

[11:16] #knownspace> Louis_Wu: I read meddler in Convergent Series

[11:17] #knownspace> AlexA: ^that sort of worked

[11:17] #knownspace> AlexA: .biblio notes glass dagger

[11:17] #knownspace> Outsider: Flight of the Horse, The (1973-09) : Contents: Get a Horse! Bird in the Hand Leviathan! There's a Wolf in My Time Machine Death in a Cage What Good is a Glass Dagger? Flash Crowd Afterword

[11:18] #knownspace> UncleNasty: if you check this:

[11:18] #knownspace> AlexA: Cool

[11:18] #knownspace> UncleNasty: the third listbox is what outsider sends with its query - you can't specify media or setting

[11:19] #knownspace> UncleNasty: it would get kinda klunky trying to type into irc

[11:19] #knownspace> UncleNasty: Outsider: "Carpe Aurum!"?

[11:20] #knownspace> Outsider: UncleNasty: "Carpe Aurum!" (it to en,

[11:20] #knownspace> UncleNasty: hrm

[11:20] #knownspace> UncleNasty: Outsider: latin "Carpe Aurum!"?

[11:20] #knownspace> UncleNasty: ...

[11:21] #knownspace> UncleNasty: okay, that's a no-go

[11:21] #knownspace> UncleNasty: Outsider: "C'est merde!"?

[11:21] #knownspace> Outsider: UncleNasty: "This is shit!" (fr to en,

[11:21] #knownspace> UncleNasty: bingo

[11:22] #knownspace> UncleNasty: .biblio notes get a horse

[11:22] #knownspace> Outsider: Flight of the Horse, The (1973-09) : Contents: Get a Horse! Bird in the Hand Leviathan! There's a Wolf in My Time Machine Death in a Cage What Good is a Glass Dagger? Flash Crowd Afterword

[11:56] #knownspace> AlexA: I'm back

[11:57] #knownspace> AlexA: That biblio doesn't include in-story date

[11:58] #knownspace> AlexA: Any chance of querying the KS timeline?

[11:58] #knownspace> UncleNasty: hrm

[11:58] #knownspace> UncleNasty: let me see

[11:59] #knownspace> AlexA: I thought the pheny syntax for translation was different

[11:59] #knownspace> AlexA: .g pheny

[11:59] #knownspace> Outsider: AlexA:

[11:59] #knownspace> AlexA: Oops

[11:59] #knownspace> AlexA: .g phenny

[11:59] #knownspace> Outsider: AlexA:

[12:00] #knownspace> UncleNasty: i don't think the KS timeline is in there

[12:00] #knownspace> UncleNasty: I'll have to check with Mark sometime

[12:00] #knownspace> AlexA: Ok

[12:01] #knownspace> AlexA: Tell UncleNasty outsider rocks

[12:01] #knownspace> UncleNasty: lol

[12:02] #knownspace> AlexA: Hmm trying phenny 'tell' command

[12:02] #knownspace> UncleNasty: try .tell

[12:02] #knownspace> UncleNasty: .tell AlexA i think it's this...

[12:02] #knownspace> AlexA: Hmm

[12:02] #knownspace> UncleNasty: nope

[12:04] #knownspace> AlexA: Hmm the phenny description has tell without the .

[12:04] #knownspace> AlexA: Not sure what it's for anyway

[12:05] #knownspace> AlexA: Does it pass message to user when they next join the room?

[12:06] #knownspace> AlexA: When does LN chat usually kick off?

[12:08] #knownspace> AlexA: Outsider: "Sacre bleu"

[12:09] #knownspace> UncleNasty: follow it with a ?

[12:09] #knownspace> UncleNasty: i think about 3pm EST

[12:09] #knownspace> UncleNasty: let me check my spam folder

[12:10] #knownspace> AlexA: .t est

[12:10] #knownspace> Outsider: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 11:10:13 EST

[12:10] #knownspace> UncleNasty: noon pst

[12:10] #knownspace> UncleNasty: .t pst

[12:10] #knownspace> Outsider: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 08:10:27 PST

[12:10] #knownspace> UncleNasty: >_<

[12:10] #knownspace> AlexA: 3 hrs then

[12:11] #knownspace> AlexA: Outsider: "sacre bleu"?

[12:11] #knownspace> Outsider: AlexA: "sacre bleu" (fr to en,

[12:11] #knownspace> AlexA: Ahh:(

[12:12] #knownspace> UncleNasty: lol

[12:12] #knownspace> AlexA: Hsngon

[12:12] #knownspace> UncleNasty: Outsider: "Sacrebleu!"?

[12:12] #knownspace> Outsider: UncleNasty: "Sacrebleu!" (fr to en,

[12:12] #knownspace> UncleNasty: hrm

[12:12] #knownspace> AlexA: Outsider: "sacré bleu"?

[12:12] #knownspace> Outsider: AlexA: "sacré bleu" (fr to en,

[12:12] #knownspace> AlexA: Nuts

[12:13] #knownspace> AlexA: Can't handle colloquial French

[12:13] #knownspace> UncleNasty: i think it's now classed as a borrowed phrase for english

[12:13] #knownspace> UncleNasty: .ety sacre bleu

[12:13] #knownspace> Outsider: Can't find the etymology for "sacre bleu". Try bleu

[12:13] #knownspace> UncleNasty: .dict sacre bleu

[12:13] #knownspace> AlexA: Approx = good heavens

[12:14] #knownspace> Outsider: UncleNasty: Sorry, no definition found.

[12:14] #knownspace> UncleNasty: <shrug>

[12:14] #knownspace> AlexA: .ety tanj

[12:14] #knownspace> Outsider: Can't find the etymology for "tanj". Try

[12:14] #knownspace> UncleNasty: LOL

[12:14] #knownspace> AlexA: Hoho

[12:15] #knownspace> AlexA: .g tanj

[12:15] #knownspace> Outsider: AlexA:

[12:15] #knownspace> SeanS: heh

[12:15] #knownspace> UncleNasty: oh now that's fuckin funny

[12:15] #knownspace> AlexA: Tanjit bloody lawyers!

[12:15] #knownspace> UncleNasty: there ain't no justice ;)

[12:16] #knownspace> UncleNasty: that wrenched a healthy "HA!" from me

[12:16] #knownspace> SeanS: sat chat today, isnt it?

[12:16] #knownspace> UncleNasty: yup

[12:16] #knownspace> AlexA: Don't think I googled that before :)

[12:17] #knownspace> AlexA: Definitly LOL

[12:17] #knownspace> AlexA: Hi SeanS

[12:20] #knownspace> SeanS: hi alex

[12:21] #knownspace> AlexA: .wik tanj

[12:21] #knownspace> Outsider: "Profanity in science fiction shares all of the issues of profanity in fiction in general, but has several unique aspects of its own, including the use of alien profanities (such as the alien expletive 'shazbot!' from Mork & Mindy, a word that briefly enjoyed popular [...]" -

[12:21] #knownspace> AlexA: Better :)

[12:23] #knownspace> AlexA: I like that the URL is tanj :)

[12:26] #knownspace> AlexA: Hmm Card doesn't think tanj works

[12:26] #knownspace> UncleNasty: you should read Appleseed by Clute

[12:27] #knownspace> UncleNasty: that's got some oddness in it wrt profanity

[12:36] #knownspace> AlexA: Another book to add to the list :/

[12:36] #knownspace> AlexA: I don't read as much as I used to

[12:36] #knownspace> UncleNasty: Appleseed is a tricky read

[12:37] #knownspace> AlexA: Still got Niven to catch up on

[12:38] #knownspace> UncleNasty:

[12:40] #knownspace> UncleNasty:

[12:40] #knownspace> UncleNasty: "John Clute's 'Appleseed' sticks out like a sore thumb in the landscape of the average science fiction novel. In fact, it sticks out like a sore thumb in the landscape of just about any novel, even the weirder science fictional works. Clute is one of the most respected critics specializing in the science fiction field. 'Appleseed' answers the question "Once you've written the encyclopedia, what do you do for an encore?""

[12:41] #knownspace> UncleNasty: lol - excellent quote in this one that captures the experience perfectly:

[12:41] #knownspace> UncleNasty: "a book that is so damn brilliant, so funny, so mind-manglingly weird that most people won't know whether they're reading a novel or experiencing the onset of a mental illness"

[13:01] #knownspace> AlexA: Looks like I'll have to check it out

[13:02] #knownspace> AlexA: .g appleseed

[13:02] #knownspace> Outsider: AlexA:

[13:02] #knownspace> UncleNasty: that's the anime

[13:02] #knownspace> AlexA: Related?

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[13:03] #knownspace> UncleNasty: nope

[13:03] #knownspace> UncleNasty:

[13:03] #knownspace> AlexA: .g appleseed clute

[13:03] #knownspace> Outsider: AlexA:

[13:03] #knownspace> UncleNasty: that's the puppy

[13:04] Merlin_McCarley has joined #knownspace

[13:04] #knownspace> UncleNasty: hi Merlin_McCarley

[13:04] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: G'Day

[13:05] #knownspace> AlexA: Out of print?

[13:05] #knownspace> UncleNasty: sec

[13:06] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Even out of print titles can be found relatively easily. E-bay, Amazon & used book stores are your friend.

[13:07] #knownspace> UncleNasty: appleseed is definitely a love-it or hate-it book

[13:07] #knownspace> UncleNasty: it's hard to read if you're not in the right frame of mind

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[13:22] #knownspace> UncleNasty: wb AlexA

[13:22] #knownspace> AlexA: Oops

[13:22] #knownspace> AlexA: Just surprised it's oop

[13:22] #knownspace> UncleNasty: this just got sent to me - made me LOL

[13:22] #knownspace> UncleNasty:

[13:24] #knownspace> AlexA: Odd

[13:24] #knownspace> UncleNasty: indeed

[13:25] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Ah, the POWER of the Stache!

[13:26] #knownspace> UncleNasty: i always appreciate surreal humor when I'm coding

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[15:03] #knownspace> dmac44: Happy 4th!

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[15:16] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Grilled Bandersnatch anyone?

[15:19] #knownspace> dmac44: well, at least you like it cooked

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[15:35] #knownspace> UncleNasty: is everyone out drinking & letting off fireworks?

[15:35] #knownspace> AlexA: $&@! colonials :)

[15:36] #knownspace> UncleNasty: it's almost like they think they won a real war or something

[15:36] #knownspace> UncleNasty: ;)

[15:36] #knownspace> UncleNasty: it's horribly addictive

[15:37] #knownspace> AlexA: I've managedvto resist MMOs

[15:37] #knownspace> UncleNasty: resistance is futile

[15:37] #knownspace> AlexA: Play a few PS2 games online

[15:38] #knownspace> UncleNasty: i enjoy wow - it kinda harks back to the AD&D games

[15:38] #knownspace> AlexA: Tried Quake on pc but got my ass wooped

[15:39] #knownspace> UncleNasty: i'm not keen on the FPS genre

[15:39] #knownspace> UncleNasty: it's got tired

[15:39] #knownspace> UncleNasty: after Unreal Tournament and Q3 arena, there's not a lot to add

[15:40] #knownspace> UncleNasty: i like the planning and sneakiness of rpgs ;)

[15:40] #knownspace> AlexA: Quite like SW:Battlefront games

[15:40] #knownspace> AlexA: Only problem is my son now regularly beats me :(

[15:41] #knownspace> UncleNasty: LOL

[15:41] #knownspace> UncleNasty: well, if you're ever tempted to see what WoWs about, grab the demo and create a toon and I'll give you a tour

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[15:50] #knownspace> Lensman: Looks like a pretty empty chat room today. Not surprising, it being the 4th of July.

[15:54] Dan has joined #knownspace

[15:55] #knownspace> Dan: Hello, folks.

[15:59] #knownspace> Lensman: Ah, there is life in the chat room!

[16:00] #knownspace> Dan: Yeah, I just woke up a few minutes ago. Working night shift this weekend.

[16:01] #knownspace> Lensman: Well I won't be here long, we leave for a picnic in an hour and I have to get dressed before that.

[16:01] #knownspace> Dan: The good news is that I do get holiday pay rates for working tonight.

[16:01] #knownspace> Dan: Have fun, Lens!

[16:02] #knownspace> Dan: The better nesw is that I start a vacation Monday morning.

[16:04] #knownspace> UncleNasty: ook

[16:05] #knownspace> UncleNasty: how's it going, Dan?

[16:05] #knownspace> Dan: Not too badly, as a scroll up will reveal.

[16:05] #knownspace> UncleNasty: well, i'm re-indexing a 12GB database and I ain't paid hourly <sigh> lol

[16:07] #knownspace> Dan: I got a few brownie points from my supervisor last night. One of the machines has a new computer control installed instead of the old analog buttons and switches. I was the only one of my workgroup that could make the machine work.

[16:08] #knownspace> Lensman: Congratulations on the new job, Dan!

[16:08] #knownspace> Dan: I do dislike the touch-panel restricting me to only being able to operate one control at a time.

[16:09] #knownspace> UncleNasty: I've just had to interface our warehouse management system with an automated sorting conveyor... may not sound too cool and sexy, but with the conveyor running 300 feet per minute, you can pass a lot of bloody boxes through it

[16:10] #knownspace> UncleNasty: we have a window of around 200-500ms to respond to the scan request

[16:10] #knownspace> Dan: Not a new job, Lensman. The factory just laid off 6 people this year- and then brought in new equipment.

[16:10] #knownspace> Dan: 300 FPM is ablout the normal speed for our production line.

[16:11] #knownspace> Dan: Laid off 36 people, not just 6.

[16:11] #knownspace> UncleNasty: ouch

[16:11] #knownspace> Lensman: My SF club has an annual film festival in a classroom-auditorium at one of the local universities. A few years ago they installed a touch screen which controls all the lighting. I know what you mean by irritating when you can only access one control at a time. It's rather time-consuming compared to the old switches-and-knobs controls.

[16:11] #knownspace> Dan: The housing market took a dive, what can I say.

[16:12] #knownspace> Dan: We did get several new contracts that are going to allow us to call 12 people back next week, though.

[16:12] #knownspace> Lensman: Dan: Oh, sorry, you have a *vacation* starting Monday, not new job. One think I don't like about this Java Chat is that I can't increase the font size, and my eyes are getting old.

[16:14] #knownspace> Dan: Not a problem, Lens. I understand about the aging eyes. That's hitting me too.

[16:17] #knownspace> UncleNasty: ooh - anyone using McAfee antivirus?

[16:17] #knownspace> UncleNasty:

[16:18] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Use the Chatzilla plugin for Firefox. You can modify many things in it.

[16:18] #knownspace> Dan: Nope, I had to get a refund from McAfee several years ago. TA new version of their antivirus/anti-spam wouldn't allow me to access the Internet.

[16:18] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: McAfee giving a false positive? Wow, that's a first, not.

[16:19] #knownspace> UncleNasty: yeah but it's IDing core files

[16:19] #knownspace> UncleNasty: you're looking at a rebuild to clean up

[16:19] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: That in Vista or Windows 7?

[16:19] #knownspace> Dan: Win XP Home.

[16:19] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Humm.

[16:20] #knownspace> Dan: Sean clued me in to AVG Free aand I never looked back.

[16:20] #knownspace> Lensman: Merlin: I have Chatzilla installed. Can you assist me in using it to access this chat?

[16:20] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Yes, I use that when necessary. But I refuse to use any totaly active scanner.

[16:20] #knownspace> UncleNasty: irc://

[16:21] #knownspace> Dan: McAfee sent me a full refund for the program CDs that I'd bought- No arguments, either.

[16:21] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Just put this in a blank firefox window.

[16:21] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: irc://

[16:22] #knownspace> Dan: Hey! Merlin's right, that ought to allow Lens to resize fonts using the normal browser options.

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[16:22] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Indeed.

[16:22] #knownspace> Lensman2: Kewl! Thanx Merlin!

[16:22] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Oh, misread that. No it pops the Chatzilla client, but you can still modify fonts there.

[16:23] #knownspace> Lensman2: It's okay, the default font here is much bigger.

[16:23] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: NP

[16:25] #knownspace> Dan: I'm looking forward to next weekend. LibertyCon 22 in Chattanooga, TN. My wife and I are finalizing our plans for our steampunk wardrobe for the weekend.

[16:26] #knownspace> Dan: I gave up the idea of taking one outfit for the costume contest. Tennessee is just too hot this time of the year. That's one drawback of steampunk; the clothes are usually better suited to Wintertime wear than to Summer.

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[16:27] #knownspace> Dan: Hiya, Ed.

[16:27] #knownspace> UncleNasty: hi Ed!

[16:27] #knownspace> EML: Hi guys!

[16:28] #knownspace> EML: Nice to be able to change the font.

[16:28] #knownspace> Lensman: Yah, I always wonder when I read those Victorian novels how the characters can stand to wear layers of such stifling clothing. I guess part of it is that in the British Isles the climate is cooler, but the British had a far-flung empire. Wearing stifling clothing buttoned up to a high neck in India... How did they not all get heat stroke?!?!

[16:28] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: What are techies for if not to oblige?

[16:28] #knownspace> Lensman: Welcome Ed!

[16:28] #knownspace> EML: 12So good, I forgot to set my color. D'oh!

[16:28] #knownspace> Dan: So Lyn & I will be in matching kahaki Jungle Explorer outfits one day- Complete with matching pith helmets! LOL!

[16:29] #knownspace> UncleNasty: takin the pith, eh?

[16:29] #knownspace> Dan: Yep!

[16:29] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Now don't get Pithy.

[16:29] #knownspace> UncleNasty: I had to work today.. I'm pith'd off

[16:30] #knownspace> EML: 12Was Larry by today?

[16:30] #knownspace> UncleNasty: not yet

[16:30] #knownspace> EML: 12Well, it's a holiday.

[16:30] #knownspace> Dan: Lyn's going to take a vaguely Egyptian outfit for another day. I'm going to take my "gone native in China" outfit to wear then.

[16:31] #knownspace> UncleNasty: Dan: you should do the space explorer outfit - the helmet is a planter

[16:31] #knownspace> EML: 12Dan: where are you going? I logged on too late to catch that.

[16:31] #knownspace> Dan: I haven't decided what my thrid outfit will be, yet.

[16:31] #knownspace> Dan: LibertyCon 22 in Chattanooga, Tennessee.

[16:31] #knownspace> UncleNasty:

[16:32] #knownspace> Dan: LOL! Saw that. That's wonderful.

[16:32] #knownspace> UncleNasty: i love the mars photo

[16:33] #knownspace> Lensman: Yeah, I love that too. Lots of great steampunk costumes, just use Google's "image" search on "steampunk".

[16:34] #knownspace> Dan: *I'm* in the drawing stages of working up a steampunk Iron Man/Commando Cody outfit for next year. Going to do it as if it were stiffened leather armor, not going to the metal look.

[16:34] #knownspace> UncleNasty: plenty of rivets, sir!

[16:35] #knownspace> Dan: Yep! But I'll need to buy about half a cowhide and some more waxed thread for my awl.

[16:35] #knownspace> EML: 12Say, I have a bit of Known Space news.

[16:35] #knownspace> UncleNasty: ...

[16:35] #knownspace> Dan: Go for it, Ed.

[16:35] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Do tell.

[16:35] #knownspace> Lensman: And the best shop for Steampunk armaments:

[16:35] #knownspace> Lensman:

[16:35] #knownspace> EML: 12The 4th collaboration with Larry is official.

[16:36] #knownspace> Dan: WooHOO!

[16:36] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Working title?

[16:36] #knownspace> UncleNasty: cool

[16:36] #knownspace> EML: 12As discussed here in the chat, the title iw Betrayer of Worlds.

[16:36] #knownspace> EML: 12Oops. IS. it IS Betrayer of Worlds. No hints who is betraying what to whom.

[16:36] #knownspace> Lensman: "Official" means contract signed? Or means you and Larry have made a firm decision to write it?

[16:37] #knownspace> EML: 12Signed. And a big chunk written.

[16:37] #knownspace> Lensman: Wonderful!

[16:38] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: More Pak probs or a new angle?

[16:38] #knownspace> EML: 12Thanks, all. Best guess, it'll be a late 2010 release.

[16:38] #knownspace> Lensman: Hey Ed, you asked about what bits of KS we would like you to explore. Have you considered addressing the improbable nature of Jinx?

[16:39] #knownspace> EML: 12Merlin: it's hard to say much about Betrayer since no one here has read Destroyer.

[16:39] #knownspace> UncleNasty: well you can fix that with a few well mailed ARCs ;)

[16:39] #knownspace> EML: 12Lens: Yup, I know Jinx is a favorite question of yours.

[16:40] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: :)

[16:40] #knownspace> UncleNasty: O:-)

[16:40] #knownspace> EML: 12Umm ... what's O plus a smiley?

[16:40] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Not like we won't buy it anyway.

[16:40] #knownspace> Lensman: Yes, "Doc" Smith had his Galactic Roamers, fans who would read and offer suggestions for his new stories before he submitted them to the pulps. I'm sure you and Larry could find some eager volunteers here... (ME! ME! ME!)

[16:40] #knownspace> UncleNasty: EML: Angelic - Smilie with a halo

[16:41] #knownspace> UncleNasty: *smiley

[16:41] #knownspace> EML: 12Ah. I thught maybe a face falling off.

[16:41] #knownspace> UncleNasty: heh

[16:42] #knownspace> EML: 12OKay, I can say one thing to titilate y'all. The lead charcater of Betrayer is ... a pre-Ringworld Louis Wu.

[16:43] #knownspace> Lensman: *Lead* character. Well that is news indeed!

[16:43] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Pre or post Trinoc encounter?

[16:43] #knownspace> EML: 12Merlin: Pre.

[16:43] #knownspace> UncleNasty: hrm

[16:44] #knownspace> EML: 12his royal majesty? You can address me simply as "Ed"

[16:44] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Well we know he gets antsy from time to time.

[16:44] #knownspace> dmac44: So, we're not going to learn anything new about the Trinoc?

[16:44] #knownspace> EML: 12Doug: nope, no Trinoc in the new book.

[16:44] #knownspace> Lensman: We're finally going to find out all about the Free Wunderland Conspiracy. ;-)

[16:44] #knownspace> dmac44: Well there's always Triumph :)

[16:45] #knownspace> SeanS: hi everyone.. just dropping in for a sec

[16:45] #knownspace> Lensman: Hi Sean!

[16:45] #knownspace> Dan: Hi, Sean.

[16:45] #knownspace> EML: 12I've learned never to assume a new story will tell "all" about anything. Not with THIS group :-)

[16:45] #knownspace> UncleNasty: Here ya go, Dan -

[16:45] #knownspace> EML: 12Hi SEan.

[16:45] #knownspace> UncleNasty: and I'm just about to bail - got parents visiting form the UK

[16:46] #knownspace> EML: 12Doug: Triump of Worlds is only a gleam in the authors' eyes right now. Don't get too far ahead of us.

[16:46] #knownspace> SeanS: ed, whats the room you want again. tis a new irc server and i need to permanently create it again

[16:46] #knownspace> Dan: LOL! That's great- really steampunk.

[16:46] #knownspace> EML: 12ttfn, Nasty

[16:46] #knownspace> UncleNasty: ttfn

[16:48] #knownspace> Dan: #SF_and_Nonsense is what I have listed as Ed's chat room.

[16:48] #knownspace> EML: 12Sean: how about again? If you mean a page title, "The official Edward M. Lerner IRC chat server" still worls.

[16:48] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Dan, what irc server is that on?

[16:48] #knownspace> SeanS: ok.. i just meant the chat room on the irc server

[16:48] #knownspace> dmac44: EML: Just trying to make sure you guys know we're interested in more after Betrayer.

[16:48] #knownspace> Dan: Merlin, it's on this server.

[16:49] #knownspace> EML: 12Dan: SF and Nonsense is a blog (updated 1-2 times per week). The chat is less used.

[16:49] #knownspace> SeanS: this one, merlin

[16:49] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: k

[16:49] #knownspace> Lensman: Ed: I've been e-mailing another fan who wants to create his own KS timeline, and we've been arguing over some of the dates. One unanswered question in KS history is: When did the U.N. become the sovereign gov't? WOT refers to some historical troubles including a "Superman insurrection", and the formation of the ARM which we presume did not happen before the UN gained ascendancy. But no...

[16:49] #knownspace> Lensman: ...dates, tanjit!

[16:49] #knownspace> Dan: Ed, that was the channel name on this server, too.

[16:50] #knownspace> Lensman: I don't know that it's appropriate to have anything about the formation of the U.N. in the time period you're setting the books, but dropping in a casual reference to when the ARM was formed (amalgamated?) would be nice!

[16:50] #knownspace> EML: 12Lens: I can't tell you anything about early KS history. I've had no reason to look into that.

[16:51] #knownspace> Lensman: OOOH! Chatzilla automatically broke my too-long post and continued it in a 2nd post! Me likey!

[16:51] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: And a reference why Louis can't remember his parents exploits might be welcome as well. Brainwashed by Puppeters?

[16:51] #knownspace> SeanS: merlin, are you cubes?

[16:52] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: ?

[16:52] #knownspace> EML: 12Not to worry. Louis will be explained.

[16:52] #knownspace> EML: 12Cubes has asked, believe me.

[16:52] #knownspace> SeanS: do you use a nick cubesforsyth?

[16:52] #knownspace> SeanS: i know

[16:53] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: No, I am Merlin McCarley or a derivation of same almost everywhere.

[16:53] #knownspace> SeanS: he was very impressed to get a mail back from you, ed. and niven as well

[16:53] #knownspace> SeanS: just checking, merlin

[16:53] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: NP

[16:53] Larry has joined #knownspace

[16:53] #knownspace> SeanS: hi larry

[16:53] #knownspace> EML: 12Hi Larry

[16:53] #knownspace> dmac44: Happy 4th Larry!

[16:53] #knownspace> Lensman: Hi Larry! Tanj, I have to leave very shortly.

[16:54] #knownspace> Dan: Hello, Larry!

[16:54] #knownspace> Dan: Ed and Larry are finally in the room at the same time! WOOT!

[16:54] #knownspace> EML: 12Larry, I was just telling the folks that Betrayer of Worlds is official.

[16:55] #knownspace> Lensman: I've seen it before, but very seldom.

[16:55] #knownspace> Larry: Hi all, and ahppy 4th. I started trying to link in at noon. Two hours blown. Now I'm on my wife's machine.

[16:55] #knownspace> EML: 12I feel your pain, Larry. I had to repave the hard drive on mine this week. Not fun.

[16:56] #knownspace> Larry: betrayer of Worlds is our working title, yes. It's half written.

[16:57] #knownspace> SeanS: larry, i run run the server. did you have a problem logging in?

[16:57] #knownspace> Larry: Ed, these books are generally busier than previous known space books, because of all the background.

[16:58] #knownspace> Larry: SeanS, it's been months since I was able to join the Chat. This worked because I used Marilyn's machine.

[16:58] #knownspace> EML: 12Busier? I prefer "enriched with backstory" LOL

[16:59] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Larry, are you using the Java client or another IRC client?

[16:59] #knownspace> Larry: As you desire, Ed.

[16:59] #knownspace> SeanS: hmm, if i may ask, what client are you using?

[16:59] AlexA has joined #knownspace

[16:59] #knownspace> Dan: Hello, Alex.

[16:59] #knownspace> Larry: I used Java and a link sent to me.

[16:59] #knownspace> EML: 12Hi Alex

[16:59] #knownspace> AlexA: Hi all

[17:00] #knownspace> AlexA: My battery's charged now:)

[17:00] #knownspace> Lensman: Larry, if you use FireFox then we should set you up with Chatzilla.

[17:00] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Try firefox with the chatzilla plugiun then plug this link in. irc://

[17:00] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Whta Lens said ;)

[17:01] #knownspace> Lensman: Unfortunately I have to go.

[17:01] #knownspace> EML: 12Bye, Lens.

[17:01] #knownspace> Dan: Later, Lensman.

[17:01] #knownspace> Larry: Yes, I do use Firefox. Set me up.

[17:01] #knownspace> SeanS: works as well

[17:02] #knownspace> EML: 12Larry: the (p)return of Louis was a hit.

[17:02] #knownspace> AlexA: Is Larry Organlegger?

[17:02] #knownspace> Dan: Yes, Alex.

[17:02] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Here you go Larry.

[17:02] #knownspace> AlexA: Cool

[17:03] #knownspace> SeanS: you are in a forum with larry niven and ed lerner

[17:03] #knownspace> Larry: EML:hmmm? Return of Louis Wu where?

[17:03] #knownspace> Dan: To a new story, Larry. LOL!

[17:03] #knownspace> EML: 12Too cute? I meant only a new book with Ouis -- as you know.

[17:04] #knownspace> EML: 12Ugh. 10 left thumbs today. Louis.

[17:04] #knownspace> AlexA: Ok Larry & EML : Any plans to address the apparent artificial nature of Plateau and Jinx in future stories?

[17:04] #knownspace> Dan: I have 6 feet of shelves filled with Larry's paperbacks because of Louis Wu, and reading Ringworld back during college in the late '70s.

[17:06] #knownspace> EML: 12Alex: not in my thinking. I won't speak for Larry.

[17:06] #knownspace> AlexA: Both Plateau and Jinx should collapse under gravity unless they're made of scrith/GP hull/stasis fields :)

[17:07] #knownspace> Larry: AlexA: no such plans.

[17:08] #knownspace> EML: 12Or, perhaps, stale cookie dough.

[17:08] #knownspace> AlexA: Ok thanks Larry & EML

[17:08] #knownspace> AlexA: Or maybe chocolate manhole covers :)

[17:09] #knownspace> SeanS: hey, i begged for a new smoke ring story but larry said he was done.

[17:09] #knownspace> AlexA: Tanj :)

[17:09] #knownspace> EML: 12I'm going to head out. At least you've seen Larry and I *are* two different people.

[17:10] #knownspace> SeanS: not to shabby being able to type to your favorite author from time to time ;)

[17:10] #knownspace> SeanS: later ed

[17:10] #knownspace> dmac44: Well, you are 2 different logons :) See ya Ed.

[17:10] #knownspace> AlexA: Larry: Will there be another "Burning..." story

[17:10] #knownspace> Dan: Have a great day, Ed.

[17:10] #knownspace> AlexA: Bye EML !

[17:11] #knownspace> EML: 12off to make stuff explode ...

[17:11] #knownspace> AlexA: Burning Mountain IIRC?

[17:12] #knownspace> AlexA: I really enjoyed "Burning Tower"

[17:13] #knownspace> Larry: "Burning Mountain" was to be the third in the series. Jerry and I have plans, but we're not writing that book right now.

[17:13] #knownspace> SeanS: i have not read burning tower

[17:14] #knownspace> Larry: At least read "Burning City". I workeed hard to make tht happen.

[17:14] #knownspace> AlexA: Cool thanks Larry

[17:15] #knownspace> AlexA: Larry: How will new asteroid vs Earth book avoid retreading ground covered by Hammer?

[17:15] #knownspace> SeanS: hard back copy of burning city on the shelf... and i have read it a couple of times ;)

[17:15] #knownspace> Larry: Have you folk noticed writeups claiming that Betelgeuse is near supernova?

[17:15] #knownspace> Dan: Saw that last week, larry.

[17:15] #knownspace> SeanS: i have not

[17:16] #knownspace> SeanS: near supernova.. in what time frame?

[17:16] #knownspace> AlexA: Yes Larry - the experts say we're safe, but Im sure there's a story in it :)

[17:17] #knownspace> Larry: Timeframe/error is large: thousands to hundred-thousands of years. Still, what a wonderful sight it would be.

[17:17] #knownspace> SeanS: it would be

[17:17] #knownspace> Dan: Does that mean that there are Monk non-clients in that system? LOL!

[17:17] #knownspace> SeanS: heh

[17:17] #knownspace> dmac44: 640 light years away but still seems close

[17:17] #knownspace> AlexA: .g betelgeuse supernova

[17:17] #knownspace> Outsider: AlexA:

[17:18] #knownspace> SeanS: larry, outsider is the new bot that neil prichard set up... does all kinds of fun things

[17:18] #knownspace> Larry: Claim is, great light show, no danger to Earth. My fear: it would end the conquest of space. Too much radiatiion.

[17:19] #knownspace> SeanS: the conquest of space ended a long time ago.

[17:19] #knownspace> Larry: I've written a Betelgeuse story. Very short.

[17:19] AlexA_ has joined #knownspace

[17:19] #knownspace> AlexA_: Oops

[17:20] #knownspace> AlexA_: Hey I'm cloned :)

[17:20] #knownspace> SeanS: i quote pournelle... i always new i would see the first man on the moon, i never dreamed i would see the last

[17:21] #knownspace> AlexA: That's better

[17:21] #knownspace> dmac44: I sure hope its axis isn't pointed at us.

[17:21] #knownspace> SeanS: knew

[17:21] #knownspace> AlexA: dmac44: Not according to wikipedia

[17:22] #knownspace> dmac44: AlexA: Small favors :)

[17:23] #knownspace> AlexA: SeanS: I have hopes that the Augustine commision will keep us manned spaceflight going

[17:23] #knownspace> SeanS: would you mind sending me the story, larry? i will not distribute.

[17:23] #knownspace> AlexA: It'll be hard for Potus to ignore whatever it recommends

[17:25] #knownspace> AlexA: Larry: Anything you can say about "Freefall" game?

[17:29] #knownspace> AlexA: .t bst

[17:30] #knownspace> Outsider: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 22:29:59 BST

[17:30] #knownspace> Larry: I think I will not send a half-polished story, partly because I don't know how to attach it here.

[17:31] #knownspace> AlexA: .t pst

[17:31] #knownspace> Outsider: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 13:31:10 PST

[17:31] #knownspace> Larry: "Freefall" game is in limbo due partly to the poor economy.

[17:31] #knownspace> Dan: OK, going to switch to

[17:32] #knownspace> Dan: "Away" mode so that I can go get ready for work. Have to leave early so that I'm not late. 5 minutes tardiness could cost me $50 an hour for my holiday pay tonight.

[17:32] #knownspace> AlexA: Larry: Shame. Hopefully books sales aren't affected

[17:32] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Did that Firefox plugin work for ye Larry?

[17:33] #knownspace> Dan_away: Hope everyone has a great weekend!

[17:34] #knownspace> Larry: Merlin: That wasn't a hot button. I wrote it down; will try it next month.

[17:34] #knownspace> AlexA: Though I think Jerry P had said books can do well in bad times

[17:35] #knownspace> AlexA: Escapism and statingbin more?

[17:35] #knownspace> Larry: Merlin: or email me at <>.

[17:35] #knownspace> AlexA: Staying in more

[17:35] #knownspace> SeanS: larry, i will contact you and fix your irc problems if that is ok

[17:36] #knownspace> dmac44: Anyone know if we'd get an EMP from a supernova 640 light years away? Any damage to the ozone layer?

[17:36] #knownspace> Larry: Sean: OK

[17:38] #knownspace> SeanS: i will look forward to it... sometime this week?

[17:38] #knownspace> SeanS: i will email you, larry

[17:39] #knownspace> Larry: I'm dropping out. Thank you all.

[17:39] #knownspace> SeanS: girlfriend want to run up to a friends and i am going so i am out

[17:39] #knownspace> dmac44: Bye Larry

[17:40] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Email sent Larry.

[17:40] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Drat.

[17:40] #knownspace> SeanS: tis ok... i will fix him up

[17:41] #knownspace> SeanS: for all of his superb stories, he is not really computer savvy

[17:41] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Good, he needs stability since he is coming in through Earthlink DSL. Gaak, I have tried to dissuade authors from that service.

[17:42] #knownspace> AlexA: JP is the tech guru :)

[17:43] #knownspace> AlexA: In my intermitant presence did I miss anything from eml / Larty?

[17:43] #knownspace> SeanS: eml is a puter guy as well

[17:44] #knownspace> SeanS: more puter savvy than larry anyway

[17:44] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: IT guy since 89' here. Not exactly a sloutch ;)

[17:44] #knownspace> SeanS: not saying that you arent ;)

[17:44] #knownspace> dmac44: I'm heading off to celebrate the 4th. See you all next month.

[17:44] #knownspace> AlexA: Something amusing I found earlier:

[17:45] #knownspace> AlexA: .g tanj

[17:45] #knownspace> Outsider: AlexA:

[17:45] #knownspace> AlexA: ^click :)

[17:45] #knownspace> SeanS: do a bit of linux, merlin?

[17:47] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Have done a bit of it. Want to do more, started my IT life in Sys5. But most of my time has been in the PC and Novell/MS server world.

[17:47] #knownspace> SeanS: i started with novell and windows... loving linux more every day

[17:48] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Yes open source has many advantages these days. Becoming more and more stable as well.

[17:48] #knownspace> SeanS: gotta run up and take a shower. then running to a friend's with a cooler full up beer. feel free to contact me.

[17:49] #knownspace> AlexA: My XP box has a corrupt .net 2.0 installation :(

[17:49] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: I will, thx.

[17:50] #knownspace> SeanS: 6 pc's running here. 1 dual boots ubuntu and windows. windows for my skype star trek like comm station

[17:50] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: That should be able to be cleaned up through standard Windows uninstall programs from the control pannel.

[17:50] #knownspace> AlexA: Got the MS KB article to fix it but dreading spending several hours wrestling with it :(

[17:50] #knownspace> AlexA: Nope Merlin_McCarley

[17:51] #knownspace> SeanS: install suse or ubuntu and be done with it

[17:51] #knownspace> AlexA: Won't uninstall cleanly and rolling back didn't help either

[17:51] #knownspace> SeanS: i am out

[17:52] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Have you tried Ccleaner to kill off the bad registry entries?

[17:53] #knownspace> AlexA: KB article does appear to cover my situation. Has steps up to and including registry editing :/

[17:53] #knownspace> AlexA: Ccleaner? No.

[17:54] #knownspace> AlexA: Tried MS software removal tool

[17:54] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Been there, fun stuff. But if you have uninstalled then this should clean the bad entries out on its own. Link forthcoming.

[17:54] #knownspace> AlexA: .g ccleaner

[17:54] #knownspace> Outsider: AlexA:

[17:55] #knownspace> AlexA: ^that it?

[17:55] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley:

[17:55] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Yes

[17:56] #knownspace> AlexA: Thanks, I'll give it a whirl

[17:56] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Has helped me through some of the probs with Quicktime no longer being backward compatable.

[17:56] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: NP

[17:57] #knownspace> AlexA: I think the route cause was me restarting the of when a windows update seemed to be frozen

[17:58] #knownspace> AlexA: Iirc initially there wasn't enough space on my C: drive. I cleaned it u & windowsvupdate tried again but appeared to hang up

[17:59] #knownspace> AlexA: My typing is bad today sorry

[18:00] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Yes, no matter how clean MS claims to be they still don't like restarts during updates.

[18:00] #knownspace> AlexA: Anyway hopefully ccleaner will sort it

[18:00] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Fingers crossed.

[18:00] #knownspace> SeanGone: i cant recommend adaware from lavasoft and avg from grisoft enough

[18:01] #knownspace> AlexA: I do use AVG. Dont think it's caused any issues

[18:02] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Sent Sean, just a note so you have the address.

[18:02] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Gtg, the wife needs the PC.

[18:02] #knownspace> AlexA: Oh right double negative - you're saying they're good SeanGone

[18:03] #knownspace> AlexA: Avg autoupdate doesn't always work on my pcs forcsome reason

[18:04] #knownspace> AlexA: .t bst

[18:04] #knownspace> Outsider: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:04:14 BST

[18:04] #knownspace> AlexA: Ok I'd better go too

[18:04] #knownspace> AlexA: Bye all

[20:21] UncleNasty has joined #knownspace

[20:51] Hippy has joined #knownspace

[20:52] #knownspace> UncleNasty: hey Hippy

[20:53] #knownspace> Hippy: How's it going?

[20:53] #knownspace> UncleNasty: not bad - u?

[20:53] #knownspace> UncleNasty: aside from having to skip out & missing Larry in the chat, that is

[20:53] #knownspace> Hippy: Cold and clear here

[20:53] #knownspace> Hippy: A wintry Sunday morning

[20:54] #knownspace> UncleNasty: what do you call 'cold'?

[20:54] #knownspace> Hippy: I thought I'd miss him,too, because I joined so late. Damn, though

[20:55] #knownspace> Hippy: 'Cold' is around 5 degrees C

[20:55] #knownspace> UncleNasty: ahh right - bbq weather ;)

[20:55] #knownspace> Hippy: Sufficient to turn me into a superconductor and I just stand here for ever

[20:56] #knownspace> UncleNasty: i shit you not I have seen canadians in shorts with iced drinks & winter jackets bbqing in -5c and below

[20:58] #knownspace> Hippy: Good God! I suppose that's the penalty of not having mych to watch on TV

[20:58] #knownspace> UncleNasty: lol

[21:03] #knownspace> Hippy: How's the ol' Phenny bot going?

[21:03] #knownspace> UncleNasty: he's workin well

[21:04] #knownspace> Hippy: Under what name? I don't see 'Brennan'

[21:04] #knownspace> UncleNasty: he's Outsider now

[21:09] #knownspace> UncleNasty: omfg that's good

[21:09] #knownspace> UncleNasty:

[21:10] #knownspace> Hippy: Let me have a peruse of tat link

[21:11] #knownspace> UncleNasty: it's mostly safe for work

[21:11] #knownspace> UncleNasty: fuck it, I'm printing it for my cube

[21:14] #knownspace> Hippy: Sadly it's too small for me to make out what it is

[21:14] #knownspace> UncleNasty: can't you zoom it in?

[21:14] #knownspace> UncleNasty: what browser are you using?

[21:15] #knownspace> UncleNasty: in firefox just click it, in IE hover your mouse on the image and hit the zoom button

[21:15] #knownspace> UncleNasty: this may work better for you

[21:19] #knownspace> Hippy: Ah, yes. Now I sget it

[21:19] #knownspace> Hippy: Some of those are pretty good

[21:20] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, I shall now tender my goodbyes and resolve to get here earlier next month

[21:20] #knownspace> Hippy: Even if it's snowing here

[21:21] #knownspace> UncleNasty: adios hippy

[21:21] #knownspace> UncleNasty: have a good one

[21:24] #knownspace> Hippy: You, too

[21:24] #knownspace> Hippy: 'Bye

[22:37] CubesForsythe has joined #knownspace

[22:37] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: Hey everyone. What did I miss today?

[22:38] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: did Larry or EML drop by?

[22:38] #knownspace> UncleNasty: hey CubesForsythe

[22:38] #knownspace> UncleNasty: sry zoned out here

[22:38] #knownspace> UncleNasty: both turned up for a short while

[22:39] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: so

[22:39] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: what new portions of Larry's playground did they unlock today?

[22:39] #knownspace> UncleNasty: i was here when EML dropped in but I missed larry

[22:39] #knownspace> UncleNasty: they've got a deal for the next collaboration

[22:39] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: betrayer? that's good

[22:40] #knownspace> SeanGone: just walked in

[22:40] #knownspace> UncleNasty: and that the main protagonist will be a pre-ringworld louis wu

[22:40] #knownspace> UncleNasty: hey Sean

[22:40] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: I knew it

[22:40] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: Is anyone able to make a chatlog of the day and email it to me?

[22:40] #knownspace> SeanGone: larry told me to contact him directly to fix his irc issues

[22:40] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: It would be heavily appreciated

[22:40] #knownspace> UncleNasty: i can mail you the log from the bot

[22:40] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: o_o

[22:41] #knownspace> UncleNasty: we have a logbot :)

[22:41] #knownspace> UncleNasty: i wroted it all by myself ;)

[22:41] #knownspace> CubesForsythe:

[22:41] #knownspace> UncleNasty: i dloaded it earlier to catch up so I'll just mail it raw

[22:41] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: k

[22:42] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: I sent an email to Larry a couple weeks ago

[22:42] #knownspace> UncleNasty: knownspaceARM logs the conversations for us

[22:42] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: I said this to him:

[22:42] #knownspace> UncleNasty: you have mail

[22:43] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: In Ringworld it says that Louis was raised as a Flatlander, and that he had not seen the stars until he was older. However, Carlos and his children (who were young at the time) went to Home after living on Fafnir for a while - the stars would be nothing new to them. Also, Louis knew of the core explosion, but not about the Long Shot or Bey. However, Carlos' children were supposedly raised by...

[22:43] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: ...Bey - why would Louis have to be told about the Long Shot by Nessus?

[22:43] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: I suspect that Louis has worked with Nessus before, and that his memory of the incident was wiped afterward.

[22:43] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: and both Larry and EML responded to my letter.

[22:43] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: Larry said: We’re dealing with that now. You’ve made some excellent deductions.

[22:44] #knownspace> UncleNasty: cool

[22:44] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: EML said: As Larry suggests, you've touched on aspects of an in-progress collaboration (Betrayer of Worlds). You'll thank us for not saying more :-)

[22:44] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: so, to learn that it's a pre-ringworld Louis Wu seems to fit very well indeed!

[22:48] #knownspace> UncleNasty: it will make for an interesting read - I just hope they don't stretch too far to close continuity

[22:51] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: haha! EML mentioned me

[22:51] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: >.<

[22:51] #knownspace> UncleNasty: found a really odd italian or spanish picture gallery

[22:51] #knownspace> UncleNasty: it's got some weird crap in there

[22:51] #knownspace> UncleNasty: it's really cool

[22:52] #knownspace> UncleNasty: definitely nsfw though

[22:53] #knownspace> UncleNasty: if you're interested

[22:54] #knownspace> UncleNasty: some graphic nudity so be advised

[22:59] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: perhaps another time

[22:59] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: thank you very much for the chat log

[23:00] #knownspace> UncleNasty: no problem at all

[23:00] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: I'm all stoked once more, because EML mentioned my email to them.

[23:00] #knownspace> UncleNasty: lol

[23:00] #knownspace> UncleNasty: i will be intrigued to see how close you hit to the mark

[23:01] #knownspace> UncleNasty: and my question is "what relationship is louis wu to truesdale?"

[23:01] #knownspace> UncleNasty: i gotta run

[23:01] #knownspace> UncleNasty: ttfn

[23:06] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: Hm

[23:06] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: From Alice Jordan to Carlos

[23:06] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: too many missing links

[23:07] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: indeterminate lifespans

[23:08] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: but Alice... flew back to the inner system with 1. Brennan's single ship - priceless; 2. knowledge of the Pak invasion fleet (waves 1 and 2).

[23:08] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: and pregnant

[23:08] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: so, confinement asteroid

[23:08] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: and.... a state secret for the belt?

[23:08] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: How would the ARM know?

[23:09] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: the man kzin wars span the difference

[23:09] #knownspace> SeanGone: hmm

[23:09] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: now, EML said that their new works may render some of the MKW stories non canonical

[23:10] #knownspace> SeanGone: i have not read the log

[23:10] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: if they intend to tie Truesdale to Louis, I think it will have to happen in the man-kzin war era

[23:10] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: they revealed nothing that we didn't know

[23:10] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: i guess

[23:10] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: if you take my email into account

[23:10] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: Uncle said that his question is "what relationship is louis wu to truesdale?"

[23:10] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: I was just thinking it out

[23:11] #knownspace> SeanGone: interesting question

[23:11] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: the biggest loose end is Alice

[23:12] #knownspace> SeanGone: she could also be the biggest winner

[23:12] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: an ARM named Robinson is the only ARM from that era that I know of, and in Protector he didn't ACT really paranoid

[23:12] #knownspace> SeanGone: truesdales' fortune would be hers

[23:12] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: I do not follow

[23:16] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: Geez, I would HATE to have to buy all of the MKW books and read through them for clues and loose ends when some of them may not even apply

[23:16] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: fan-fiction, even professionally done - is not my favorite thing

[23:17] #knownspace> SeanGone: truesdale got a fortune from greatly stelle

[23:17] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: oh!

[23:17] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: well

[23:17] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: yes

[23:17] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: they spent a lot on their trip to persephone

[23:17] #knownspace> SeanGone: that would be alices

[23:17] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: but you're right

[23:17] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: Carlos seems to be well off

[23:17] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: but he's also a genius without peer

[23:17] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: so

[23:18] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: I don't know if that's a connection

[23:18] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: There's another loose end

[23:18] #knownspace> SeanGone: i think known space is as coherent as it can be since it has been written for 40 years

[23:19] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: yeah

[23:19] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: however

[23:19] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: a loose end can turn into a new story

[23:19] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: or may have been left on purpose

[23:19] #knownspace> SeanGone: tis true

[23:19] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: either way

[23:19] #knownspace> SeanGone: hey... niven was in here earlier

[23:19] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: in Relic of Empire

[23:20] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: yeah

[23:20] #knownspace> SeanGone: you should of asked him

[23:20] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: I was out an about

[23:20] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: I'm getting married this week

[23:20] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: the relatives have begun to show up

[23:20] #knownspace> SeanGone: good for you

[23:20] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: ; )

[23:20] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: :) *

[23:20] #knownspace> SeanGone: congrats

[23:20] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: thanks

[23:21] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: anywho, I assume that you've read Relic of Empre?

[23:21] #knownspace> SeanS: i have

[23:21] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: Rich Mann is found by pirates

[23:21] #knownspace> SeanS: yes

[23:21] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: and these pirates have a very interesting claim

[23:22] #knownspace> SeanS: the captain did

[23:22] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: they claim that they know the location of the puppeteer homeworld, and that GPC put the squeeze on human governments to keep it a secret

[23:22] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: that idea seems so out of place in so many ways

[23:22] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: the simple answer is that the captain was a liar

[23:23] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: but what if he wasn't lying? Hmm...

[23:23] #knownspace> SeanS: he als gives the coordintates and says the planet is a long way out which is in keeping with known space

[23:23] #knownspace> SeanS: also

[23:24] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: Lensman says that this story takes place between Neutron Star and At the Core. Juggler and Fleet are going on as well

[23:24] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: this is a VERY active time

[23:25] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: and it's a time of migration

[23:25] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: I seem to recall the captain saying that it's a planet

[23:25] #knownspace> SeanS: yep... all during the same time

[23:25] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: not a flying fleet of worlds

[23:25] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: so, I'm confused by this

[23:25] #knownspace> SeanS: well

[23:26] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: I think that the captain thought he was telling the truth. I also think that he must have been mistaken

[23:27] #knownspace> SeanS: interesting point

[23:27] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: I'll have to think it over some more

[23:28] #knownspace> SeanS: the captain should of seen 4 worlds instead of one....... in am not going to worry niven to death over it tho

[23:29] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: nor shall I

[23:29] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: however

[23:29] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: I will have to read it again

[23:29] #knownspace> SeanS: hard to keep everything perfect over 40 years of writing

[23:29] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: does he describe the star that he sees?

[23:29] #knownspace> SeanS: no

[23:29] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: (if there were no loose ends, it wouldn't be as fun)

[23:29] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: hmm

[23:30] #knownspace> SeanS: as i remember, he just reads the coordinates off to mann and says its a single planet a long way out

[23:30] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: according to Lensman, it's 11 years too early for it to be New Terra on it's own though

[23:31] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: also

[23:31] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: this is crucial

[23:32] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: in juggler, at this period in time, we have a clear view in the puppeteer government

[23:32] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: clandestine directorate and all

[23:32] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: surely there would have been mention of this man's extortion

[23:33] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: (or not, I suppose. they Citizens don't view blackmail as wrong)

[23:33] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: the*

[23:35] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: Well, I'm going to head out

[23:36] #knownspace> CubesForsythe: have a good night Sean! :) thanks for the friendly speculation