Chat Log: January 6th 2007

[04:05] * chorn has joined #knownspace

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[11:37] <Nick_Danger> oh god, an abortion debate. maybe I will unsubscribe for a while

[11:37] <Nick_Danger> lord save us all

[11:54] <SeanS> i hear ya. 115 list mails when i got home

[12:15] <SeanS> deleted most of them based on subject line

[12:18] <Nick_Danger> i wanted to talk about brackett

[12:18] <Nick_Danger> it's like sci fi and stuff

[12:27] <Nick_Danger> oh well, when does this here chat start?

[12:29] <Flying_away> Hello?

[12:29] <Flying_away> Two and a half hours from now, I think.

[12:29] <Flying_away> I've invited a Kuk Sool bud to throw knives at three, so I can be here for an hour.

[12:30] <Flying_away> Too Gum Sool, knife throwing. (Maybe "sharp pointy thing" throwing techniques)

[13:06] * FrGeek has joined #knownspace

[13:08] <Flying_away> Hello, Father.

[13:08] <Flying_away> I'm getting ready to run away for awhile. be back later.

[13:09] <Flying_away> Hope you stick around! It would be nice to talk about something besides abortion, though.

[13:09] * Flying_away REALLY away

[13:14] <FrGeek> Tell me about it LOL

[13:17] * kh has joined #knownspace

[13:18] * kh has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)

[13:21] * NickE has joined #knownspace

[13:22] <NickE> HNY All!

[13:25] <FrGeek> Hi

[13:25] <SeanS> I send greetings

[13:27] <SeanS> oh, this is first saturday chat day, isnt it?

[13:27] <FrGeek> Should be

[13:28] <SeanS> wasnt thinking

[13:28] * Retrieving #knownspace modes...

[13:28] * SeanS changes topic to 'Welcome to part I of the Niven mailing list 1st Saturday Chat!!'

[13:29] <NickE> Aye, just popped in before tea to see who was about

[13:31] <SeanS> I am about to put some burgers on the grill. Will try to be back in a timely manner

[13:33] <NickE> I'll be in and out for a bit too, feeding time for the kids is always a bit hectic (2 friends over as well so feeding 6!)

[13:46] * SteveS has joined #knownspace

[13:46] <SteveS> Hi, folks!

[13:47] <SeanS> yo steve

[13:48] <SteveS> How are things?

[13:49] <FrGeek> hi all

[13:57] <NickE> Back (full of cottage pie goodness :-)

[13:57] <SteveS> :-)

[13:59] <NickE> blimey the list has been busy since Friday (after the holiday lull) will endeavour to catch up as we go

[14:01] <SteveS> I was so far behind from the last several months, that I just moved everything pre-Christmas into another folder, and I'll try to keep up with posts from that point.

[14:01] <Nick_Danger> it seems to have had a post new years take off

[14:01] <Nick_Danger> zoom!

[14:03] <NickE> I count 14 digests since I left work on Friday!

[14:04] <SteveS> Wow.

[14:06] <SeanS> i counted 115 list posts since yester day after noon till i got home. about 15 hours

[14:06] <Nick_Danger> it was looking like turning into an abortion debate

[14:06] <SteveS> I can believe it, because I sat and read all of them this morning. :-)

[14:07] <SeanS> i deleted anything with a suspected abortion oriented title

[14:07] <Nick_Danger> good plan

[14:08] <Nick_Danger> so who's driving to new mexico for me?

[14:08] <SeanS> made it faster slogging through them all anyway

[14:08] <Nick_Danger> it's a bit far for me these days

[14:09] <NickE> Ah, ta for the warning

[14:09] <FrGeek> Yah taht thread got thick quick

[14:10] <SeanS> hey english and semi english types... my dad mentioned a story he heard on the radio about somebody or shop in england getting fined for having a scale sitting on a shelf with pound and ounce measurments. any insight?

[14:12] <NickE> Yeah, it's illegal FFS!

[14:12] <NickE> Well was if he was using it to sell produce

[14:13] <NickE> Thank you Brussels

[14:13] <SeanS> apparently it was sitting on the shelf collecting dust but i didnt hear the story myself

[14:15] <NickE> Some of the papers are running a "What have the Romans ever done for us?" theme at the moment with the EU playing Biggus Dickus, so that sort of story may be appearing, though I've not seen it in recent coverage

[14:15] <SeanS> could be... he most likely heard it on an all night talk show

[14:16] <NickE> There was a lot of this when they made the switch a fair while back

[14:16] <SeanS> england is still on the pound right? not the euro

[14:16] <NickE> Thank bog

[14:17] <NickE> Well, that maybe unfair, a monetary switch wouldn't bother me that much personally, but there's a shed load of baggage that comes with it

[14:18] <NickE> Now, if they take away our PINTS on the other hand, well, it's a good excuse to go to war with the French again :-)

[14:19] <SteveS> :-)

[14:19] <SeanS> dad thanks you for the input and he got a heck of a laugh at the PINTS comment

[14:20] <NickE> Glad to oblige :-)

[14:20] <SteveS> Hi, Sean's dad!

[14:20] <NickE> <waves>

[14:20] <SeanS> i called him. he isnt here

[14:21] <SeanS> will pass along the sentiment tho

[14:22] <SeanS> he has been to england so I am sure he knows all about how you feel about PINTS

[14:26] <NickE> Damn right!

[14:27] <NickE> <says he opening his 25cl bottle of French beer> ahem

[14:27] <NickE> Its all we have left!!!

[14:30] <NickE> Just browsing the digests, not so many unread as I thought (different account at work), but still quite a bit

[14:39] * Harry_Redd has joined #knownspace

[14:39] <SteveS> Hi, Frank!

[14:39] <NickE> Hey Frank!

[14:40] <Harry_Redd> Hi Steve, NickE.

[14:40] * SeanS sets mode: +o Harry_Redd

[14:41] <SeanS> dang i'm tired. didnt sleep well or much last night

[14:41] <NickE> Partying?? :-)

[14:42] <SeanS> nope... that was probably the problem

[14:42] <NickE> Know what thats like

[14:42] <NickE> :-)

[14:42] <Harry_Redd> Thank tiy Sean

[14:43] <Harry_Redd> i'M GETTING ORGANIZED HERE. Coffee and the like.

[14:45] <NickE> Point of interest: The KS site gets a nod, a link and a praise on the Does My Geek Look Big In This? podcast site links page at Cool

[14:46] <Harry_Redd> OK.

[14:50] <NickE> Ooookayyyy....catching up on some podcasts here(as well as the list digests, doing the chat and keeping an eye on a couple of forums....multitasking pah!) and the Sci Fi Review bit of The Signal is doing Pinky and the Brain! (narf!)

[14:50] <NickE> Sorry, just struck me as a WTF moment :-)

[14:51] <FrGeek> Are you pondering whta I am pondering?

[14:51] <NickE> Actually, it makes a lot of sense :-)

[14:52] <NickE> Plays with a lot of Sf ideas within the wonderfully simply insane format

[14:53] <SteveS> I think so, Padre, but how can we make a kzin do the tango?

[14:53] <NickE> LOL!

[14:56] <FrGeek> lol

[14:57] * SteveS bows.

[14:57] <SteveS> Thank you, thank you. Try the veal!

[14:58] <NickE> <grin>

[14:58] <Harry_Redd> What do you tguhink this is Steve? A DON'S DINNER?3.

[14:59] <SteveS> More like a cheesy comedy club.

[14:59] <SteveS> :-)

[14:59] <Harry_Redd> *DANG! COFFEE HASN'T KICKED IN YET!*

[14:59] <NickE> Give the magic beans a chance....

[15:02] <NickE> brb

[15:07] <Harry_Redd> Just sent a ChaT Alert

[15:10] <SeanS> anybody got a copy of the 2nd or 3rd season of starblazers?

[15:10] <SteveS> Nope.

[15:10] <SeanS> wanted to ask before the soob showed up

[15:14] <SeanS> interesting... a dvd drive that i thought was dead because it wouldnt run the windows vista disk works just fine with the openSUSE 10.2 disk. figures

[15:14] <SteveS> Weird.

[15:15] <SeanS> older drive... windows disk probably doesnt support it or some BS like that

[15:15] <FrGeek> Well although Vista doe snot give any extra functionality we all should rush out and buy it anyways because Bill needs the money

[15:16] * SeanS didnt buy it

[15:17] <SeanS> just 'evaluating' and not enthusiastic at all about doing that

[15:19] <SeanS> might of spoken too soon tho... cli just sitting on 'starting yast'

[15:23] <SeanS> errored out. guess i need to break down and get another dvd drive

[15:30] * bandersnatch has joined #knownspace

[15:30] <bandersnatch> whats happening?

[15:30] <SteveS> Hi, oh large, white, and sluggy!

[15:31] <Harry_Redd> Hi Bandersnatch.

[15:31] <bandersnatch> not today, its a light red shee form wine of the same colour.

[15:31] <bandersnatch> Mr. Reddington!

[15:32] <Harry_Redd> Present!

[15:32] <NickE> kinda back. Hi Bandersnatch

[15:33] <bandersnatch> any topic of the day

[15:35] <NickE> Um...Pinky and The Brain? No, not really ;-)

[15:35] <FrGeek> Well since you all here I want to discredit all of those rumors about me and Angelina Jolie

[15:36] <NickE> <fnafrf!>

[15:36] <FrGeek> ;)

[15:36] <NickE> good job i wasnt sipping then!

[15:37] * Flying_away is now known as FlyingDragon

[15:37] <FlyingDragon> Hello!

[15:37] <NickE> Hi Carol

[15:37] <FrGeek> Hey Fly

[15:37] <FlyingDragon> FatherGeek: The rumors aren't TRUE?????

[15:38] <Harry_Redd> Not yet. I however am finding the Discussion in List Mail quite interesting.+

[15:38] <FlyingDragon> Read about my coup in archery? I got congratulations from the master!

[15:39] <Harry_Redd> HI Carol, Hi FrGeek.

[15:39] <NickE> Do tell

[15:39] <FrGeek> Congrats btw!

[15:39] <NickE> (still catching up on list)

[15:39] <FlyingDragon> I got 16 or 25 arrows in, then I moved to a different position and lowered my ration with five more misses.

[15:39] <FlyingDragon> Ty, Fr

[15:40] <FlyingDragon> My note was at the bottom of an opinion post. People may have missed it.

[15:40] <FlyingDragon> ratio, no n in ratio.

[15:40] <FlyingDragon> I've only got 20 more minutes or so, a Kuk Sool bud is coming over to throw knives.

[15:41] <NickE> Well thats a pretty cool excuse :-)

[15:41] <FlyingDragon> LOL

[15:41] <SteveS> :-)

[15:41] <FlyingDragon> All thanks to the man, who built my target for me!!!

[15:42] <Harry_Redd> Ok FD, Whe is you you get to Mortors and granade launchers? ;-)

[15:43] <FlyingDragon> I havn'et built my way up to THAT kind of martial arts or weapons. ;-)

[15:44] <FrGeek> Funny yous should that, been looking at getting a potato gun with the excuse... er for the purpose of illustrating examples in my physics class;)

[15:44] <SeanS> potato guns are fun

[15:44] <NickE> See Sean's example!!!

[15:45] <SeanS> would have to find it nick.. havent had a web page up in a while

[15:45] <FlyingDragon> Well, since you are all quiet, I'll rattle on. Kwan JAng Nim is having a going away party for his daughter who is going to Korea for a month. I found a card with "new people you'll be hanging with" on the front, and "old people who'll miss you on" the inside. I'm going to marker in Martial arts uniforms on the people on the inside! LOL

[15:45] <FlyingDragon> FrGeek, you sound like a fun teacher.

[15:46] <bandersnatch> FrG, you willing to move, we are short on physics teachers here. but thei want only those that fit into their paedagogic concept

[15:46] <bandersnatch> whatever that might be??.

[15:47] <FlyingDragon> FrGeek might have to go whereever the Catholics want to send him.

[15:47] <SeanS> if that works, father

[15:48] <bandersnatch> i'le have atalk with your local supervisor. he is a "landmann"

[15:49] <FrGeek> I'm attached to a diocese, not a relgious order, which means my bishop can send me anywhere in the diocese, in this the florida panhandle. No snow for this southern boy

[15:51] <FlyingDragon> You don't care for it, or you just know you won't be getting it?

[15:52] <FlyingDragon> Do you work to fill your time, because you love it, or you want more moeny?

[15:53] <bandersnatch> i always assumed the catholic church to be centraly organized. ( my manual said so ( "In the shoes of the fisherman" ;-)

[15:53] <FrGeek> I am in a rural area do part of it is to fill my time and that I enjoy it. Well it ain't for the money because I don't get paid for it;)

[15:53] <FlyingDragon> you don't get paid?

[15:54] <FlyingDragon> You are like a community volunetter that goes in to the schools to help out?

[15:54] <FlyingDragon> How many hours aweek do you work in the school?

[15:54] <FrGeek> Not for teaching. But I get paid for my work at my church.

[15:54] <FlyingDragon> RIght.

[15:55] <FlyingDragon> Anything you don't spend, can you leave to anyone/thing you want?

[15:56] <FrGeek> I don't have a vow of poverty. If I was in religious order I would, but instead I am with a diocese IE a geographic area. if I win the lottery, its all mine!

[15:56] <FlyingDragon> LOL

[15:57] <FlyingDragon> So, a person can join a religious order, become a monk and study for the priesthood, or one can go to seminary and study for the priesthood? Two different paths?

[16:01] <FrGeek> Not exactlty. Being in a religious order does not mean you are studing to be a priest. Some religious orders for men do not have monks, and soem do not have preist, and most do not have monestaries. and to confuse matters, one can go in relegious order and become a brother which is kind of monk withoot a monestary or those cool robe

[16:01] <FlyingDragon> FIrst sentence, I knew that.

[16:01] <FlyingDragon> Hmm. So a monk can have a monestary or not, but a brother never has a monestary?

[16:02] <FrGeek> Yah, kind of... nit to confuse matters monks are usually called brothers. we do thsi to confuse those pesky protestants ;)

[16:03] <bandersnatch> your succesfull

[16:03] <FlyingDragon> So, what is the differance between a monk and a brother? And how do YOU tell the defferance if they are both CALLED brother?

[16:07] <FrGeek> Monks usually wear robes. And if he was in a monestery. "bothers" usually have a specical roles some orders are deciated IE caring for medical care, special needs children and adults, food kitchens... ect

[16:08] <FlyingDragon> My Kuk SOol bud will be here any moment. Gotta get ready and check my cell to see if he is lost of something. Bye all, nice chatting with you.

[16:08] <FrGeek> Have fun, hit your targets

[16:08] <FlyingDragon> TR, Fr.

[16:08] <FlyingDragon> Ty!

[16:08] <SteveS> Bye, Carol!

[16:08] <FlyingDragon> I've only got one knife in today 1/5

[16:08] <FlyingDragon> Bye!

[16:09] * FlyingDragon is now known as Flying_knives

[16:11] <NickE> later Carol

[16:11] <NickE> <bit preoccupied atm>

[16:13] <Harry_Redd> Still working on E-Mail.

[16:15] * NickE has quit IRC

[16:16] * NickE has joined #knownspace

[16:16] <Harry_Redd> WB NickE.

[16:16] <NickE> wups

[16:17] <NickE> just tried to give Fr Geek a pic of Sean's potato gun (which he was also having probs sending. Odd)

[16:19] <FrGeek> can me a web addy or e-mail it to

[16:19] <SeanS> i can email.. just didnt have the addy

[16:19] * Retrieving #knownspace modes...

[16:20] <FrGeek> Got the e-mail but no attachment

[16:21] <FrGeek> odd

[16:21] * Lensman has joined #knownspace

[16:21] <SeanS> see if that worked

[16:22] <FrGeek> Hey Lensman!

[16:22] <NickE> Hi Dave

[16:22] <Lensman> Ho Father Geek!

[16:22] <Harry_Redd> Nick, Save it to your machine and E-Mail it AFTER running it through something like IrfanView.

[16:23] <Harry_Redd> Hi Lensman.

[16:23] <Lensman> Hey, interesting thread on the Tesla stuff. And very odd how we went from like 3-4 posts a day to dozens.

[16:23] <FrGeek> Ah that worked

[16:23] <SeanS> my goof the first time

[16:23] <NickE> saves me the bother :-)

[16:24] <SteveS> Sean, can you try the file transfer again? I just found the setting that kept me from getting it.

[16:25] <Lensman> So, how much of the stereotypical mad scientist image of the pulps was inspired by Nikola Tesla?

[16:25] <SeanS> steve, i think the main reason is that I am on the same IP as the server. dcc transfers seem to work fine between everyone else

[16:26] <SeanS> couple of you want to test that and see if i am right?

[16:26] <Harry_Redd> Actually, much of the "Mad Scientist" image was baised on "The Ugly Dwarf" of science... a man named Stienmetz.

[16:27] <Lensman> Never heard of him, Harry. Details please!

[16:27] <SeanS> oh, great... scifi channel is going to show enterprise from the very beginning... yeah... help me curb my enthusiasm

[16:29] <SteveS> :-)

[16:29] <SteveS> At least the last season was pretty good.

[16:29] <FrGeek> I think the "mad scientist" is just and update of the "Insane Wizard"

[16:29] <SteveS> After the idiots quit running the show.

[16:29] <Lensman> Gee I could watch all those episodes I missed! Oh, wait... there was a *reason* I missed most of them...

[16:30] <FrGeek> I have the "mirror universe" if ENterpise, which ar ethe only ones are still worth watching

[16:30] <Harry_Redd> Stienmetz was instramental in the development of both D.C. and A.C. motors. He formulated the laws of Magnetic Hysteresis and showed how to allmost eliminate it so LARGE Generators (Alturnators) and motors could be built without melting down hat hi Amps draw. He was short, Hunchbacked and by all descriptiions ugly! He mostly hated Humans in general and built a garden populated with the ugliest cactus and plants he could find.

[16:30] <Harry_Redd> He also corresponded with both Tesla and Einstiune.

[16:30] * Dan has joined #knownspace

[16:30] <NickE> Hi Dan

[16:30] <Harry_Redd> Hi Dan.

[16:30] <SteveS> Hi, Dan

[16:30] <Dan> Hiya Nick, Frank, Steve!

[16:31] <Dan> How is it going?

[16:31] <SeanS> Hiya Dan

[16:31] <NickE> OK

[16:31] <Dan> Hiya Sean.

[16:31] <Lensman> Tesla was certainly one of the greatest inventors ever, but at least in later years was crazy as a loon. Claimed to have received intelligent radio signals from Venus. Claimed he could split the world... claimed lots of stuff, including putting an electric "shield" over cities to protect them from bombing in time of war.

[16:32] <Dan> I thought that Tesla's radio signals were from Mars.

[16:32] <Lensman> Thanks for the info Harry.

[16:32] <Lensman> Dan: That was from memory, you may be right.

[16:32] <Dan> Gotta re-read those biographies agagin.

[16:32] <FrGeek> Which is crazy talk, unless you are trying to get goverment funding ;)

[16:33] <Dan> LOL

[16:34] <Dan> If you want a laugh, you should look at photos of Tesla at age 25 compaired to photos of my little brother at the same age. They could pass for twins. LOL!

[16:34] <Lensman> Of course, Tesla really did do stuff that no one else has done and we don't know how he did it... like create ball lightning in his hands. There's a lot of "fringe science" stuff on the Internet if you google on Tesla, but that's understandable in his case 'cuz a lot of what he claimed *is* fringe science!

[16:34] <Harry_Redd> Tesla was convinced he caused the TUNGESKA event. It happenedd when he was testing his Power Transmitter. He started taking it apart and destroying the parts when he got the news.

[16:34] <Lensman> "Separated at birth..."

[16:35] <Dan> Seperated by 5 decades? LOL

[16:35] <Lensman> Harry: Oh really! I didn't know that. I've seen discussion of the Tungeska even on some of those fringe Tesla sites, I wondered what inspired them to make the connection.

[16:36] <Lensman> Dan: Well now you have proof Tesla built a time machine!

[16:36] <Harry_Redd> Tesla claimed at one point, that he was taking advantage of the Einsteian postulate of the Electro-Gravetic field properties, but destroied his notes on the subject.

[16:37] <Dan> I choose to think of it as evidence that my family might be very distantly related to Tesla's. Either that or proof that the genetic code is a large, but finite number and that physical forms sometimes get recycled by random combinations.

[16:37] <Lensman> Yah dammnit Tesla became secretive and paranoid in his later years, refused to show his notes to anyone and destroyed some of them. So it's hard to say what was real and what a figment of his imagination.

[16:37] <Lensman> Maybe he invented the particle beam, it's hard to say.

[16:38] <Harry_Redd> What it it was ALL Real Lens?

[16:38] <FrGeek> Well, I've been told I'm a dead ringer for Czar Nicolas. I wonder If I could reclaim the throne ;)

[16:39] <Lensman> Harry: Well then it's a good thing he destroyed his notes. I mean, if you could really set up a magnetic/ electrical resonance in the Earth which could split it...

[16:39] <Harry_Redd> Well FrGeek, Russia is tending back towards a "Strong Man" Government. Can you beboth Ruthless and Paranoid enough?

[16:39] <Dan> The Russian government might have already sold that throne in their last yard sale. LOL

[16:39] <FrGeek> There was the mythbusters episode where they tried to recreat the harmonic devie hat he claime dalmsot destroyed his building but no dice.

[16:40] <FrGeek> WHAT!!!!!!!!!! You doubt ME?????

[16:40] <NickE> <grin>

[16:40] <Lensman> Ever since I saw "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow" I've wanted to run a fantasy role-playing game which would pit the adventurers against a mad scientist using Tesla's claimed inventions. Starting with the small machine that can collapse a building... moving up to the adventurers on an airplane when he uses the particle beam to bring it down...

[16:41] <Harry_Redd> In many cases MythBusters is a load of Dingo's Kidneys. Things they tried to do and failed at, I've done with considerable less fuss.

[16:41] <FrGeek> THat was a movie with great promise looking for a good plot. They could have done so much more with it.

[16:41] <Dan> Sounds like it would make a decent story to read, Lens.

[16:42] <FrGeek> What game system do you use?

[16:42] <Lensman> Hmmm, I thought I'd read that someone tested the harmonic thingie that supposedly destroyed a multi-story building and found it *did* work. MythBusters is often interesting, but that doesn't mean they get everything right. Just 'cuz they couldn't figure out how to do it doesn't necessarily mean it can't be done.

[16:43] <FrGeek> true

[16:43] <Harry_Redd> Lens, I know that TESLA once , when experimenting with broadcast power, Melted the on-line Dynamoes at the Denver Powerhouse but somehow, the power transmission lines between the plant and his lab were intact. THAT sir is a pretty good trick!

[16:45] <Lensman> The last FRPG I ran was GURPS but I was dissatisfied with it. Too many fiddly rules. I read a review of Spaceship Zero which made me want to try *their* system. I absolutely would want to use some sort of "plot points" to allow player to change the outcome of die rolls at crucial moments. That seems appropriate for the wierd pulp adventure setting.

[16:47] <Lensman> Tesla did a lot of his work with ultra-high voltages, in the 10s of millions of volts. We just don't do anything in that range these days, so some of what he did may *never* be duplicated unless someone deliberately tries to re-create his research.

[16:47] <Harry_Redd> OT but interesting. I just got this link from Mad Mike:

[16:47] <FrGeek> Well I could see him building you the volage along the way and burning out the carbon brushings wich woudl be the weak piont

[16:47] <Dan> I saw that one yesterday, Frank. A friend of my wife's sent her the link. It's pretty funny.

[16:48] <Harry_Redd> Not a burnout Phil, A MELTDOWN!

[16:48] <Harry_Redd> Actually melted the Stator in spots.

[16:48] <Harry_Redd> Melted most of the winding too.

[16:49] <SteveS> LOL

[16:49] <Lensman> MORE POWER!!!!

[16:50] <FrGeek> LOL I thought that was a serious for a moment!

[16:50] <NickE> <simian grunt>

[16:50] <FrGeek> IE teh spider video

[16:51] <Dan> I remember seeing the serious version of thespider film in one of those anti-drug films back in the '70s in school.

[16:51] <NickE> need broadband :-(

[16:52] <chorn> Hi all!

[16:52] * chorn hit and runs

[16:52] <FrGeek> Hi Chorn

[16:52] <SteveS> Hi, Chorn

[16:52] <NickE> hi Chris

[16:52] <Dan> Hi, chorn.

[16:53] <chorn> So, getting to orbit is a function of mass which is pretty directly related to cost, right?

[16:53] <Harry_Redd> Hi Chorn!

[16:53] <Lensman> LOL! Okay, I thought it was serious too, from the title.

[16:53] <chorn> If we really don't want to get hit by an asteroid, can we ignore cost?

[16:53] <chorn> or at least discount?

[16:54] <Harry_Redd> make a contract with Isreal... They'll get the system Wholsale!

[16:55] * Dan tries to think of a funny line that centers on the phrase "discount asteroid"...

[16:55] <Lensman> Not so sure mass is directly related to cost. There's a lot of talk about minimizing the amount of fuel used, but at least currently the cost of fuel is a very small fraction of launch costs. Developing the spacecraft and overhead costs for the launch facility and paying all those engineers and technicians seems to be the bulk of the cost, I think.

[16:56] <FrGeek> Hmm mosbe soemthing involing a vampire who also a chepa prostitute?

[16:56] <FrGeek> cheap

[16:56] <Lensman> At least the way NASA does it. Not so sure about Scaled Composites, who designed and built SpaceShipOne, but that's not an orbital craft anyway.

[16:57] <Lensman> Did you read about the Sea Dragon project? There's a good article at Wikipedia. There are alternative ways to get to orbit if you're willing to accept a fairly high failure rate, maybe 25%.

[16:57] <FrGeek> Right now Russia has all the heavy lifters that we woudl need for it

[16:58] <Harry_Redd> If I had charge of the project it would be 5billion and 10 years no corporate taxes for the outfit that sucessfully diverted the asteroid. Split the cash if 2 companies acts result in the diversion.

[16:59] <Lensman> And there was an excellent article in ANALOG about building a fleet of remote controlled orbiters with 25% of the Shuttle's lifting capacity which the authors claimed would be something like 10 times cheaper or more.

[17:00] <FrGeek> Yes one of eth shuttle cost problem was due to its size. The Soviet Buran was much smaller

[17:02] <SeanS> someone posted an excellent article about why the shuttle is so big the other day. dont think i bookmarked it tho

[17:04] <SeanS>

[17:04] * FrGeek has quit IRC

[17:04] <Lensman> Here it is: Analog Mar 1987: "Cheap But Not Dirty Proposal for a Spaceplane" by Tom Pace & Dan DeLong

[17:04] * FrGeek has joined #knownspace

[17:04] * Dan hugs FrGeek.

[17:04] * Dan duct tapes FrGeek to the channel.

[17:05] <Harry_Redd> I might note that almost 50% of launch costs by NASA is beurocratic overhead.. Afer that come the Tech/scientific/wngineering etc costs.

[17:08] <Lensman> I thought that was an interesting proposal to paint 1/2 an asteroid with reflective material and just let the solar wind do your pushing. If it was a spray-on coating, it sounds rather do-able.

[17:09] <FrGeek> You woulkd proably want to paint the whole thing however since it would probably rotate

[17:09] <Dan> Use that paint that they have for the reflective stripes on roads. Thet works really well in low light conditions.

[17:10] <FrGeek> I liek teh gravity tug idea but they are not exclusive ideas. one proble could do both

[17:10] <Lensman> Of course that's with plenty of lead time. What worries me is all these plans assume we've got over a year to mount a mission, yet the horror stories I read about "near misses" are from asteroids we didn't see coming until just before they arrived. "Came out of the sun..." like in an aerial dogfight!

[17:11] * Flying_knives is now known as StoodUpDragon

[17:12] <StoodUpDragon> Back. He never came. :-( Good thing I outrank him. I can make him do puchups.

[17:12] <FrGeek> hit anything carol?

[17:12] <StoodUpDragon> I've been altering the "going away" card for the masters' daughter. Putting Martial arts uniforms on all the people left behind. It is real cute.

[17:12] <Lensman> The proposal someone was talking about somehow used the difference between the reflective and unreflective sides for propulsion. I don't understand how... maybe the greater outgassing from the unpainted side is spoze to provide propulsion? Well that might work for a comet, but not for a rocky/metallic asteroid. Yah, I'd think just painting the whole thing and letting it act as a lightsail would be better.

[17:12] <StoodUpDragon> Didn't hit a thing, not even the dog.

[17:13] <FrGeek> Puchups? that a misspelling of either "pushups" or "punchups" I don't know what a punchup is butit sound painful.

[17:13] <StoodUpDragon> Pushups.

[17:13] <Lensman> Hi Carol!

[17:13] <StoodUpDragon> However, sometimes we do pushups with a punch up of frint on the high side of the pushup.

[17:14] <Harry_Redd> WB Carol.

[17:14] <StoodUpDragon> Hello, Lensman.

[17:14] <StoodUpDragon> Ty, HR

[17:14] <StoodUpDragon> Lensman, isn't it ODD for us to agree on something? ;-)

[17:15] <Lensman> Interesting to see some of y'all at the Dawn Patrol chat. Makes me think it really *is* a small world! Well a small fannish world, anyway.

[17:15] <Harry_Redd> 6 degrees in the real world... 3 degrees of contact in the Fannish one Lensman.

[17:15] <Lensman> Carol: Oh, happens occasionally! :)

[17:16] <Dan> Well, I have to leave for work in about 45 minutes. Overtime on night shift this weekend.

[17:16] <NickE> bummer

[17:16] <Lensman> Will Larry be here today?

[17:16] * Nick_Danger has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)

[17:16] <StoodUpDragon> Yes, Lensman. Maybe he lost that little bit of paper with my address and number. Maybe his wife made him busy.

[17:17] <StoodUpDragon> Havent' talked to Larry.

[17:17] <NickE> He'd normally have been and gone by now IIRC

[17:17] <SteveS> In my experience, he shows up before his lunchtime, if he's going to show up.

[17:17] <Lensman> That's what I was afraid of when I woke up from my nap and saw it was an hour or more after offical chat start time.

[17:17] <StoodUpDragon> Redd, did you send him a separate notice? He doesn't always read the posts, and there has been a lot of fluff, even though we did tie it back in to literature every once in a while. At least some of us did.

[17:18] <SteveS> When he's here, it's usually an hour or two before the official start time.

[17:18] <StoodUpDragon> Lensman, are you in that part of the world? Maybe I met you at a con there?

[17:18] <Lensman> Well if Larry only reads the list digests when the posting is lite, I doubt he's been reading for the past few days!

[17:18] <Harry_Redd> I sent him a bcc of the boiler plate.

[17:20] <Lensman> Dragon: Dawn Patrol is based in Wichita KS. I'm in Kansas City. We met when Larry was here as GoH a few years back. I ran the video room when he requested a "command performance" of "Flesh Gordon". I also introduced a large lobster on a leash to Larry, if you were there at the Authors & Artists' Reception.

[17:21] * Nick_Danger has joined #knownspace

[17:21] <StoodUpDragon> Ah, yes! I was at that command performance. IN fact, I asked Larry to ask for it!!!! LOL

[17:21] <Dan> Hi, Nick_Danger.

[17:22] * Agincourt has joined #knownspace

[17:22] <Lensman> So I know we've met altho only very briefly. So it's no surprise you don't remember me... and I'm sorry to say vice versa. You were just "that lady who was with Larry".

[17:22] <StoodUpDragon> <gasp>

[17:22] <Agincourt> Hi all

[17:22] <SeanS> hi agincourt

[17:22] <Agincourt> How is everyone?

[17:23] <SeanS> everybody seems to be fine

[17:23] <Lensman> Hi Agin!

[17:23] <Agincourt> excellent

[17:23] <Agincourt> hi lensman

[17:23] <NickE> Hi t'other Dave

[17:23] <StoodUpDragon> Lensman, was I in a costume that year? Wasn't that the "Isis and Osiris" costume year?

[17:23] <Agincourt> hehe that's me, 'other dave'

[17:24] <Lensman> No, no, *I* am the other Dave! :)

[17:24] <NickE> only if you turn up late :-)

[17:24] <Lensman> Carol: Not that I recall.

[17:25] <Lensman> Carol: ConQuesT has had a really p*ss poor Masquerade for quite a few years now. I don't remember any Isis & Osiris theme... sorry but I think you're thinking of another con.

[17:25] <SteveS> I'm doing pretty well. My first ever nephew was born a little before Thanksgiving.

[17:25] <Agincourt> congrats

[17:26] <SteveS> Thanks.

[17:26] <Lensman> Anyway there are too many Daves, which is why I prefer to be called Lens or Lensman here. If you say "Dave" I assume you're talking to someone else.

[17:26] <StoodUpDragon> Well, it was a lot of years ago. THey did say that they didn't get many good costumes, which is why mine won. That and Larry's chest. The years we wore that costume, Bob Tucker did "Comet Kahoutek" or however that is spelled.

[17:26] <StoodUpDragon> Congrats, SteveS!

[17:26] <Agincourt> yeah

[17:26] <Agincourt> i subbed for a band once called "Too Many Daves"

[17:27] <StoodUpDragon> I recall a band called "The Daves"

[17:27] <Lensman> I don't think I've ever seen Tucker in costume. Was it a performance thing, or was he actually in costume?

[17:27] <StoodUpDragon> IIRC they did a song called "Be a vegetable"

[17:28] <Agincourt> Did I ever tell you that Mrs. McCave

[17:28] <Agincourt> Had twenty-three sons, and she named them all Dave?

[17:28] <Agincourt> Did I ever tell you that Mrs. McCave

[17:28] <Agincourt> Had twenty-three sons, and she named them all Dave?

[17:28] <StoodUpDragon> Tucker's was more of a performance thing.

[17:28] <Agincourt> oops did it twice

[17:28] <Lensman> Carol: Ah, as I suspected.

[17:29] <Agincourt> how was everyone's NYE?

[17:29] <StoodUpDragon> Someone held some ball of something that was the comet, someone IDed who everyone was, and I think there were some aliens following the comet. This was after tha suicide cult thing.

[17:29] <Agincourt> Hale-Bopp

[17:29] <NickE> Too many Champagne cocktails :-)

[17:29] <StoodUpDragon> Quiet. I went to the church.

[17:29] <StoodUpDragon> Agin COurt, that you for the clarification.

[17:30] <StoodUpDragon> What he said.

[17:30] <NickE> The night was fine but was hugover mildly all New Year's day

[17:30] <Agincourt> i forget the cult name

[17:30] <StoodUpDragon> Staying up late by itself causes a hangover.

[17:30] <SteveS> I went to the local SF club's New Year's get-together.

[17:30] <Agincourt> Heaven's Gate

[17:30] <NickE> Col

[17:30] <FrGeek> Heaven's Gate?

[17:30] <NickE> cool

[17:30] <Agincourt>'s_Gate_(cult)

[17:30] <StoodUpDragon> yes

[17:30] <SeanS> heaven's ga

[17:31] <Agincourt> isn't google and wiki wonderful?

[17:31] <StoodUpDragon> yes,

[17:31] <NickE> Kids all stayed up to watch the fireworks on telly (much of UK celebrations cancelled due to storms!)

[17:31] <FrGeek> I was worried I was thinking about the movie by the same name.

[17:31] <Lensman> Bruce, Bruce, Bruce, Bruce, and Michael Baldwin, called Bruce to avoid confusion. (Monty Python)

[17:31] <NickE> Beat me to it!

[17:33] <FrGeek> Althoghet now... Immanuael Cant was a real.... LOL thats why I love this chat most people would look at me as if I was insane if I sadi that out loud LOL

[17:33] <Lensman> Yah Google and Wiki are indeed wonderful! It's gotten to where I go to Wiki for just about any facts first, *then* Google if that doesn't pan out.

[17:33] <StoodUpDragon> Hale Bop comet cult: Applewhite, while a presbyterian, used to be a music director at a UU church I used to be a member of!!! Mom used to try to tease me about him being an emplyee of my church, untill I pointed out he was a Presbyterian. THen she didn't want to talk about it anymore.

[17:33] <StoodUpDragon> Immanuael Cant?

[17:34] <StoodUpDragon> Immanuael can't do what? :-)

[17:34] <Agincourt>

[17:34] <Agincourt> their actual website

[17:34] <SteveS> Wow, they got Uhura's brother? Scary.

[17:34] <FrGeek> But Herman Khan ;)

[17:34] <StoodUpDragon> They STILL have a website?????

[17:34] <Agincourt> i know, go figure

[17:35] <Lensman> NYE: We just stayed in and watched movies. I don't care for liquor myself, plus I hate to drive that evening, with all the drunks out. Our SF club's annual NYE party is WAY on the other side of town, over an hour drive... so I just don't go.

[17:35] <StoodUpDragon> Lens, I still have my "Bull Flies high pin," I hope.

[17:35] <StoodUpDragon> You could go early and leave early.

[17:35] <Agincourt> By the time you read this, we suspect that the human bodies we were wearing have been found and that a flurry of fragmented reports have begun to hit the wire services. For those who want to know the facts, the following statement has been issued.

[17:36] <Agincourt> creeeeepy

[17:36] <NickE> I can actually play and sing The Philosopherss Song! And have done so on stage in front of school kids (hey, I'd already resigned :-)

[17:37] <Lensman> Carol: Is that pin from ConQuesT? "ConQuesT-- where the bull really flies!" I think we should make that the official motto of the con...

[17:37] <FrGeek> Yes. Disturbing. I think the sit eis still on line as a reminder

[17:38] <StoodUpDragon> I'm mixing up my cons?

[17:38] <StoodUpDragon> Yes, that pendant is from COnquest. That is the ocn we're talking about, yes?

[17:38] <Lensman> Carol: Yes.

[17:39] <Lensman> Disturbing indeed.

[17:39] <Lensman> What's next? "The Rev. Jim Jones reaches out to you..."

[17:40] <StoodUpDragon> How many people did he kill?

[17:40] <Agincourt> 914

[17:40] <Lensman> "Recipe for Flavor-Aid..."

[17:40] <Agincourt>

[17:41] <StoodUpDragon> I suppose that makes him the greatest murderer in history?

[17:41] <Lensman> The Hale-Bopp cult took 914 with them? Wow... I suppose it would be irreverant to say "Think of it as evolution in action"

[17:41] <Harry_Redd> Greatest "Hands On" murder perhaps Carol.

[17:41] <Agincourt> no jim jones did

[17:41] <Dan> Nah, there are lots of other killers with larger totals.

[17:42] <StoodUpDragon> Hale bopp suicides were more like 20, yes?

[17:42] <Agincourt> most are politicians though

[17:42] <Agincourt> yeah dragon

[17:42] <StoodUpDragon> Thirty-eight cult members, plus Applewhite

[17:42] <Harry_Redd> Politicians are "Murder by order" types.

[17:42] <Lensman> The Jim Jones cult took 914?? OMG I had no idea it was so large!

[17:42] <Agincourt> and then theres the band Brian Jonestown Massacre

[17:42] <Agincourt>

[17:43] <StoodUpDragon> THey are technically called suicides rather than murders.

[17:43] <Agincourt> eh

[17:44] <Agincourt> brainwashing or gaslighting someone into suicide is murder

[17:44] <StoodUpDragon> Says authities ignored reports from escapped members of mass suicide plans. I bet authorities would take reports more seriously today!!!

[17:44] <StoodUpDragon> gaslighting?

[17:44] <Harry_Redd> Interesting article here on Asteroid Belts around another star.

[17:45] <Lensman> Not sure Jim Jones cult actually qualifies as suicide. The way I heard it, he had on previous occasions told people to drink something he told them was poisoned, but it wasn't, so they may have though he was just testing their "faith".

[17:45] <Harry_Redd> I believe that is what's called a SETUP!

[17:45] <Lensman> (Echoing Carol) Yah what is "gaslighting"?

[17:45] <Agincourt> and some where shot

[17:46] <Agincourt> gaslighting: driving someone insane

[17:46] <Agincourt> intentionally

[17:46] <StoodUpDragon> He shot himself, it looks like. Wonder why? Didn't have enough poison for himself?

[17:46] <Agincourt> he probably knew cyanide hurts

[17:46] <Lensman> Oh, from the movie "Gaslight". Got it!

[17:47] <FrGeek> Did not see that movie

[17:47] <StoodUpDragon> Does it? So, he dint' mind causing everyone else pain, but he dind't wantt o die that way?

[17:47] <StoodUpDragon> Didn't see it either.

[17:47] <Agincourt> just conjecture on my part

[17:47] <Agincourt> he was also full of pentobarbitol

[17:47] <Agincourt> when he died

[17:47] <FrGeek> Then ther was Goebels who piosoned his own children.

[17:47] <StoodUpDragon> There used to be a dinner theatre in Tulsa called the Gaslight. Wonder if the name influenced the kidns of plays they produced?

[17:48] <StoodUpDragon> Pentobarbitol?

[17:49] <Lensman> Poisoning your own children: Yah there is a great tendency on the part of many to treat children as literally their property, as has been brought up in a current list thread.

[17:50] <Lensman> Wiki sez: The autopsy on his body showed levels of the barbiturate pentobarbital that could have been lethal to humans who have not developed physiological tolerance. His drug abuse (including various LSD and marijuana experimentations) was confirmed by his son, Stephan, and Jones' doctor

[17:50] <StoodUpDragon> Ah, so he had to shoot himself to die?

[17:52] <Lensman> Grisly subject. Someone brought up "being shot in the head" as a subject on the Piper list.

[17:53] <StoodUpDragon> YOu can live after suffering an injury like that.

[17:53] <Lensman> Men often commit suicide by shooting themselved in the head. Women find other means. Not sure why, but clearly there's some psychological thing there.

[17:53] <Agincourt> women frequently stab themselves repeatedly or slit wrists

[17:53] <Harry_Redd> You have to be very lucky or Unlucky to survive a head shot.

[17:54] <NickE> brb.... need Stilton

[17:54] <StoodUpDragon> I heard a survivor of attempted suicide by shooting himelf in the head lecture once. He needed a lot of dentistry after that, and claimed that dying really felt great.

[17:54] <Dan> OK, time to go get ready for work. See you all later. Hugs to all!

[17:54] <StoodUpDragon> See ya, Dan!

[17:54] <SeanS> later Dan-O

[17:54] <Harry_Redd> Adios Dan. Have a good one.

[17:54] <SteveS> Bye, Dan!

[17:54] <Lensman> Women generally don't disfigure their head. Guess they're more concerned with leaving a pretty corpse?

[17:54] * Dan has quit IRC

[17:54] * oneukum has joined #knownspace

[17:54] <oneukum> Hello

[17:55] <StoodUpDragon> dunno. I heard that in ANcient ROme, suicides were displayed publically, naked. THe suicide rate among women dropped.

[17:55] <SeanS> hi olive3r

[17:55] <Harry_Redd> Hello one.

[17:55] <StoodUpDragon> Hello oneukum

[17:55] <SteveS> Hi, Oliver

[17:55] <Lensman> Or maybe its a testosterone thing, shooting yourself seems so... violent.

[17:55] <NickE> The Story of Arseface (re surviving a headshot) A Preacher special (actually called The Story Of You Know Who to keep it off the cover of the comic)

[17:55] <StoodUpDragon> I've heard women take pills, men use guns.

[17:55] <NickE> Hi Oliver

[17:55] <NickE> brb

[17:56] <Lensman> Dragon: That seems to be the most common thing, yes.

[17:56] <StoodUpDragon> Overdosing and going to sleep, never to wake up, sounds very peaceful.

[17:57] <FrGeek> "jarrett has chosen how to die..." OBMonty

[17:57] <Agincourt> okay so this has taken a wierd turn hehe

[17:57] <Agincourt> so how bout the weather we been having?

[17:57] <Lensman> I vote for a subject change!

[17:57] <StoodUpDragon> very wet at masters club this morning.

[17:57] <Harry_Redd>

[17:58] <Agincourt> interesting

[17:59] <Lensman> So are they gonna name it "Serpent Swarm" ?? <g>

[17:59] <Harry_Redd> Hmmm, No Asteroid Belt = No Rocky/Water worlds perhaps?

[17:59] <Harry_Redd> I gave up on predicting nameing practices.

[18:00] * FrGeek has quit IRC

[18:00] * FrGeek has joined #knownspace

[18:00] <Harry_Redd> WB Geek.

[18:00] <FrGeek> Anyone have soem duct tape I can use?

[18:00] <oneukum> Rabbit swarm, if you go by the sun

[18:00] <Agincourt> I do

[18:00] <Agincourt> here

[18:01] <Lensman> "Serpent Swarm" is the name of an extra-solar asteroid belt in the Known Space series. At Wunderland/Alpha Centauri if memory serves.

[18:01] * Agincourt tries to push roll of duct tape through screen and fails

[18:01] <Agincourt> nerts

[18:01] <Harry_Redd> Court, try the USB port! ;-)

[18:01] <StoodUpDragon> Frgeek, I thought you were already duct taped to the room!!!!

[18:01] <Lensman> FrGeek: Are you using IRC or the Java chat client?

[18:01] <Agincourt> but they're around the back under the desk

[18:01] <Agincourt> that would involve effort

[18:02] <Harry_Redd> I should get a nap. Quite tired here.

[18:02] <StoodUpDragon> Well, just got a call from my bud who didn't show. He took a nap and slept through out date. He is not going to come Monday at 11. We'll see.

[18:02] <Harry_Redd> BBL

[18:02] * Harry_Redd has quit IRC

[18:03] <FrGeek> Whatching "Man vs Wild "on the disocver channel a surval show. They guy is supposed stranded in certain local with just a knife, flint and the clothes he has on. They neglict to say he has a camera crew. They sould be good for a a week or two of fresh meat.

[18:03] <Agincourt> lol

[18:03] <StoodUpDragon> LOL!

[18:03] <SeanS> i thought the same thing

[18:04] <Agincourt> yeah, have these people never heard of Heisenberg?

[18:04] <StoodUpDragon> I saw a show like that, part of one. THey had to like answer questions right to earn a fishhook.

[18:04] <oneukum> I thought serpent swarm refered to an asteroid belt winding its way around both suns of A.C.

[18:04] <StoodUpDragon> They get like a million dollars to go cold and hungry for a week? No problem.

[18:05] <SteveS> Sounds good. I wish the folks on Survivor would eat the show's producers, so they couldn't make any more reality shows.

[18:05] <FrGeek> Heard of him, but never saw him, never seem to be at one place at a time ;)

[18:05] * StoodUpDragon is now known as MolifiedDragon

[18:07] <Lensman> Oliver: You could be right, I don't remember details.

[18:07] <oneukum> How do you mollify a dragon? Sulphur flavored incense sticks?

[18:08] <MolifiedDragon> My friend called and explained why he stood me up, and made another date with me to throw knives at my target. I knew he really wantedt o throw knives, as he just bought two new set today.

[18:08] <Lensman> Re Man vs Wild: Yah I was thinking the same of the Survivor Man TV series on the Science Channel. Are we *really* spoze to believe that guy is out there trying to live off the wild and yet he has time to be his own camera-and-sound man? Maybe, but I doubt it.

[18:08] <SteveS> I have episodes of the original Star Trek on in the background. I never noticed that they play a "lounge music" version of the theme during party scenes, until today.

[18:09] <Lensman> Oliver: Gold. Lots of it.

[18:09] <oneukum> You are reminding me about Jehova's Witnesses with that talk about knives

[18:10] <MolifiedDragon> Oliver, why do throwing knives remind you of Jehovah's witnesses? You want to throw something at them when they come knocking?

[18:12] <oneukum> No, they have this habit of showing up shortly before dinner time. Last time they showed up I was exoecting somebody. I was preparing dinner and opened the door with a gigantic grin on my face and a used knife in my right hand. They flinched only slightly.

[18:12] <MolifiedDragon> LOL

[18:13] <SteveS> :-)

[18:14] <MolifiedDragon> An ex-boyfriend once answered the door when I came knocking with a gun in his hand. He held it the whole time I was there. He later said he didn't hear me knock and only went to the door because the dogs were barking, and then didn't know what to do with the gun.

[18:14] <Lensman> OT: What do they call those little comic-book style religious tracts?

[18:14] <MolifiedDragon> forgot. What about them?

[18:15] <Lensman> Oh, just something the comments about Jehovah's Witnesses reminded me of.

[18:15] <FrGeek> Chick Tracts. They are nasty little things

[18:15] <Lensman> Chick! Thank you!

[18:15] <NickE> agreed

[18:16] <Agincourt> chick tracts?

[18:16] <MolifiedDragon> LOL I remember "This was your life"

[18:16] <NickE> came across one when I was a kid, thought it was a regular comic strip <shudder>

[18:17] <Lensman> Ah, found it! Next time a Witness comes to your door, say "I'll take one of your tracts if you'll take one of mine...

[18:17] <Lensman>

[18:17] <FrGeek> One claimed that Islam was created by the jesuits - which woudl be intersing sine mohamed wa sine the 5th centhurt and eth jesuits founded in the 16th.. meaning teh jesuits are espically dangerous since they have timetravel :)

[18:17] <NickE> :-)

[18:17] <FrGeek> Oh yah "eaten first" LOL

[18:18] <NickE> Saw that last time someone posted the lonk. very good

[18:18] <NickE> link

[18:18] <Lensman> Yah I've posted that to the list.

[18:19] <MolifiedDragon> Somewhere I have a photocopy of a UU "Chick Tract"

[18:19] <Lensman> Pls remind me what "UU" means?

[18:19] <MolifiedDragon> Unitarian Universalist

[18:20] <MolifiedDragon> Each started as xian herecies

[18:21] <Agincourt> it's so entertaining to read evolution denials that try to use logic

[18:21] <NickE> "try is right

[18:21] <FrGeek> I long since gave trying to explain how thermodymacis works to evolution denyers;)

[18:22] <Lensman> What I "like" is how the accept "micro-evolution" and deny "macro-evolution". As though there's some sort of line between the two.

[18:23] <FrGeek> And each time you gibe an example of observed evolutioh they say "Thats not evolution its adapation"

[18:23] <Agincourt> I love getting cds in the mail from amazon

[18:24] <Lensman> Ring species are good evidence; species caught "in the act" of differentiation from one species to two or more. But I'm sure they can rationalize that away, too.

[18:24] * bandersnatch has left #knownspace

[18:25] <Lensman> Agin: Have yourself a good set of coasters, huh?

[18:26] <FrGeek> One good site is

[18:27] <SteveS> The anime club meeting is coming up in about half an hour, so it's time for me to head out. See y'all next time!

[18:27] <oneukum> bye

[18:27] <MolifiedDragon> Bye

[18:28] <MolifiedDragon> I need to feed the kids and get ready for the party at Kwan Jang Nim's.

[18:28] <MolifiedDragon> Bye.

[18:28] * SteveS is now known as SteveS_away

[18:28] <oneukum> good bye

[18:28] * MolifiedDragon is now known as Flying_away

[18:28] <Lensman> Bye Carol!

[18:28] <FrGeek> By Carol

[18:28] <Flying_away> bye, guys!!!

[18:29] <NickE> ttfn Carol

[18:30] <Lensman> "Guys" Hmmm hadn't really thought about it before. Are the two Carols the only femmefans on the list?

[18:31] <NickE> Nesssus (Mel) definitely of the feminine persuasion

[18:31] <Lensman> Or I should say, active participants. Who knows how many lurkers who never post?

[18:31] <NickE> Teressa Tanahill rarely posts rhese days but afaik is still subbed

[18:32] <Agincourt> lens: yes I just got a couple good small frisbees

[18:32] <Lensman> Nesssus hardly ever posts either.

[18:32] <NickE> Brenda Cooper is still onlin

[18:32] <NickE> online

[18:32] <Lensman> What's Brenda's handle?

[18:32] <Agincourt> Todd Rundgrens Utopia and Terry Riley:Descending Moonshine Dervishes/Songs for the ten voices of the two prophets

[18:33] <NickE> bcooper or possibly Brenda.Cooper?

[18:33] <Lensman> Thanks Nick

[18:33] <NickE> Check the subs list

[18:33] <NickE> One of the few listers I've met F2F

[18:35] <Lensman> Whenever I go to the list site it sez I need a current password and that I'm sent a new password once a month. If I've ever been sent a password automatically, I haven't noticed it. Maybe I should check the inbox where my spam gets dumped?

[18:36] <NickE> possibly. Mailman progs generally do do that once a month afaik

[18:36] <NickE> Tho not had a reminder myself for a while. I'll go check

[18:36] <Lensman> Does anyone here get those once-a-month things with LN list passwords?

[18:37] <Lensman> The only time I actually accessed the archives was when Carol sent me a password at my request.

[18:39] <NickE> ah, here we go : if you want to PM her

[18:39] <NickE> she has a blog too

[18:42] <Lensman> Anybody else following the alt-space projects? Armadillo Aerospace says they think they're getting close to actually being able to send a man up.

[18:43] <Lensman> You can see video footage of their current craft at the X-Prize Cup late last year.

[18:44] <NickE> ahhh. Metaxa 7 star, Yummy

[18:45] <NickE> (mixing it tonight)

[18:45] <Lensman> Basically it's four spheres surrounding a rocket nozzle. They say this configuration can be expanded; two tanks (one fuel, one oxidizer) make a pair, and they can add as many pairs as needed. They've installed a motorcycle saddle (!!) on the thing for a passenger. The plan is to send it up under remote control with just one passenger on the saddle, and a plastic shell on top for streamlining.

[18:46] <Lensman> Personally if offered a ride I think I'd pull a William Shatner and say "No thanks!" But I'd love to ride up in a SpaceShipTwo!

[18:47] <Lensman> Okay I'll bite-- what is "Metaxa 7 star" ?

[18:47] <oneukum> This makes me think how you can get the fuel and oxidizer weigh the same. Or else how do they balance the ship?

[18:49] <Agincourt> ok guys I'm outtie

[18:49] <Lensman> Not sure Oliver. If you really want to know they frequently post very detailed reports at the Armadillo Aerospace website. Frankly I only read them occasionally because they're really a *lot* more than I want to know about the nuts-and-bolts of building and testing a "garage kit" spacecraft.

[18:49] <Agincourt> don't send the Imperial NAvy after me though

[18:49] <Agincourt> see you guys

[18:49] <Lensman> G'nite again Agin!

[18:49] * Agincourt has quit IRC

[18:49] <oneukum> good bye

[18:50] <oneukum> I'll check the site

[18:51] <oneukum> it is approaching 1 am here. I am heading for bed. Good night.

[18:51] * oneukum has quit IRC

[18:51] <NickE> sorry, still trying to multitask..Metaxa 7 star is the yummy version of Greek brandy. tastes of oranges and is yummy

[18:53] <FrGeek> Too bad it would a great name for a spaceship ;)

[18:55] <NickE> apologies for sporadic responses, multitasking, steady boozing and the shower breaking while trying to listen to The Signal and Does My Geek Look Big In This, while reading the list digests and pmonitoring and posting on 2 boards while following links posted here....really isn't working too well :-)

[18:55] <FrGeek> Ist OK i'm wating TV and playing City Of Heroes

[18:55] <NickE> Fair 'nuff

[18:56] <NickE> I'm so behind on podcasts...they're insidious!

[18:56] <NickE> bloody good mind

[19:01] <FrGeek> Franbk already additced me on web comics

[19:03] * Birthday has joined #knownspace

[19:04] <Lensman> I used to leave my Civilization II computer game running while in the Dawn Patrol chatroom, then they switched to a Java client chat, and both the Java client and Civ II use so much of my system resources that the chat runs v e r y s l o w l y... so I've gotten out of the habit of playing games while chatting. I think I will turn on the idiot box tho, since this chat is so sporadic today.

[19:04] <NickE> Hi Birthday

[19:04] <Birthday> hey nick

[19:04] * Birthday is now known as Birthday_Fred

[19:05] <Birthday_Fred> ah. that's better

[19:05] <NickE> HB Fred!

[19:05] <Lensman> Anybody watch the new Battlestar Galactica? When is the next new episode? They are moving to Sundays is that right?

[19:05] <Birthday_Fred> I was looking forward to the chat all week, and then totallly spaced on it

[19:05] <NickE> Just getting into S1 so no spoilers please!

[19:05] <Birthday_Fred> yeah, sci-fi is trying to kill their powerhouse sci-fi fridays lineup

[19:06] <Birthday_Fred> so they cancelled SG1

[19:06] <Birthday_Fred> and moved BSG to Sunday

[19:06] <NickE> typical (like I get the SF channnel :-)

[19:06] <Birthday_Fred> Leaving Atlantis all alone, like it's strong enough to survive when it's not sandwiched inbetween the other two shows

[19:06] <NickE> and am in the UK

[19:07] <Birthday_Fred> lol, yes, nick. once again they snatch defeat from the salivating jaws of victory

[19:07] <Lensman> I was up 'til like 9am, not having gone to bed, then suddenly realized today was the Niven chat... well I went to bed for awhile, when I got up it was over an hour past official start time. Dunno what I missed... chat seemed rather light today. We got into discussion of death cults for awhile, then decided that was too morbid but the conversation hasn't picked up since.

[19:08] <Birthday_Fred> did larry show up?

[19:08] <NickE> no

[19:08] <Birthday_Fred> :\

[19:08] <Lensman> Yah I totally agree, they're shooting themselves in the foot by axing the "Sci-Fi Fridays".

[19:09] <Birthday_Fred> I've been torrenting Atlantis

[19:09] <Birthday_Fred> And Doctor Who

[19:09] <Birthday_Fred> And Torchwood

[19:09] <Birthday_Fred> so I'm like 6 months ahead of sci-fi anyway

[19:10] * Harry_Redd has joined #knownspace

[19:10] <FrGeek> I gave up on SG-1 Franchise

[19:11] <Harry_Redd> Hi All. I'm back.

[19:11] <Birthday_Fred> hey harry

[19:12] <SeanS> happy birthday fred

[19:14] <Lensman> I lost interest in SG-1 too. The Aurai (sp?) just didn't seem that interesting. They had developed a very rich, complex universe... why throw it away? Guess they were trying for a fresh start, but it seemed their hearts were not in it. Well it had a good run, they should have quit a season or two earlier. If they put more effort into good scripts for Stargate Atlantis maybe it could be a draw itself, instead of being just the hanger-on for Sci-Fi

[19:14] <NickE> wb Frank

[19:14] <NickE> Torchwood...well mostly (largely in fact) sucked

[19:15] <Lensman> Someone said BG ratings have fallen off... I wonder how much of that has to do with the change in schedule?

[19:15] <FrGeek> When does BS air now? Did I miss it?

[19:15] <NickE> You only kept watching in the vain hope of the writers pulling theirh heads out their butts long enough to notice that it sucked...but no

[19:15] <Lensman> Have not seen any Torchwood, most reviews lambast it. I'm a regular on the War of the Worlds Online forum, most post-ers there are British, they don't like it either.

[19:15] <NickE> The Sarah Jane Adventures was waaaay better

[19:16] <NickE> Nope. it blew it

[19:16] <FrGeek> THe new SG-1 woudl not have been bad as a new series and different universe

[19:16] <Lensman> Fr GeeK: I asked about BG but no one answered. I think they're moving to Sundays but am not sure when the next new episode is or was.

[19:17] <Lensman> Battlestar Galactica moves to Sundays at 10/9C starting January 21

[19:17] <Lensman> Google is my friend!

[19:17] <Harry_Redd> As usual, most TV SF sux.

[19:17] <NickE> Dr "looks like a chimp" and PC Slapper Jones are 2 of the less offensive nicknames for 2 of the characters in some quarters!

[19:18] <Lensman> Sturgeon's Law: "90% of anything is crud"

[19:18] <Lensman> Nick: Are you talking about Torchwood?

[19:18] <NickE> yup

[19:19] <NickE> Owen and Gwen if you didnt catch the ref

[19:19] <Lensman> Don't think I've heard of Sarah Jane Adventures. Was that a U.S. TV series?

[19:19] <NickE> Noi

[19:20] <Lensman> Well?

[19:20] <NickE> No, a Dr Who spin off with Sarah Jane Smith

[19:20] <NickE> They did one over the holiday and are now apparently doing a series

[19:20] <Harry_Redd> Oh. I've heard that was also Crud.

[19:21] <Lensman> Oh. Well I only occasionally find Dr Who worth watching, so don't watch it faithfully.

[19:21] <NickE> But so mucjh better than Torchwood. it worked well for the kids audience anyway

[19:21] <Harry_Redd> What I would like to see is a production company that was smart enough to take a story arc, do it to conclusion then turn to something else.

[19:21] <NickE> It was hokum, but at least it had pace and a story

[19:22] <Lensman> Wish they could have kept the same actor for the Doctor they had last season. This new guy seems too much of a flake.

[19:22] <Harry_Redd> And TELL the VIEWERS that from the start!

[19:22] <NickE> Chris eccleston was good, but Dave Tennant grows on ya

[19:22] <Harry_Redd> Yeah, Like a tumor!

[19:23] <NickE> Chistmas special was fun

[19:23] <NickE> I walked into that one Frank :-)

[19:23] <Harry_Redd> :-)

[19:23] <Lensman> Yah. That's exactly why Twin Peaks went so terribly wrong. There was a lot of stuff going on there... why did the stories have to fixate on who killed Laura Palmer? They should have solved the mystery and moved on to something else. Made one of the sub-plots the main plot, if nothing else.

[19:24] <NickE> Never got into TP

[19:24] <Lensman> So as you say, do a story arc then move on to something else. Babylon 5 did that quite successfully.

[19:24] <Nick_Danger> twin peaks?

[19:24] <NickE> Agreed

[19:24] <Harry_Redd> Too many producers have a fixation on "WHO KILLED J.R." and don't understand when it's time to change story lines.

[19:24] <Lensman> Nick: You never heard of Twin Peaks?

[19:25] <Nick_Danger> i never saw the tv show. I did see the movie

[19:25] <Nick_Danger> I have an aversion to DL.

[19:25] <Nick_Danger> the movie made no sense what-so-ever

[19:26] <Lensman> Yah, if you didn't see the TV show the movie made no sense. The show was surreal anyway, there was lots of stuff going on that was inexplicable.

[19:26] <Harry_Redd> B5 did very well untill the Network killed it because they didn't understand that it had to move on.

[19:26] <Nick_Danger> i like surreal... and I'd be happy to watch the tv show

[19:27] <Lensman> I'm not sure Twin Peaks qualifies as genre (SF/F), just Extremely Weird

[19:28] <NickE> Of course I've heard and seen TP. Never got into it is all

[19:28] <NickE> Well, saw a couple of eps. Was enough

[19:29] <Lensman> The first season is worth watching, the second is not. Apparently DL was clueless as to what direction the show should go, so it went nowhere. I mean, it started with the murder of Laura Palmer. Then after a lot of very weird stuff, the figured out who killed her. No, wait! That's not right, let's try that again... okay now we know who *really* killed her. No, wait! Let's try that again...

[19:30] <Birthday_Fred> I forgot about the Sarah Jane adventures. Half to look for that

[19:30] <Lensman> So it never was actually resolved until the movie. Like I said, they should have MOVED ON to another story arc. Enuff is enuff!

[19:32] <Lensman> Re David Lynch: I hated his version of Dune. Not sure I've seen anything else by him... what else has he done? Was Naked Lunch his?

[19:32] <NickE> Well, gonna hit the sack now, half past midnight and a slightly peculiar night at that, but fun as always. See you on the list folks

[19:32] <Lensman> G'nite Nick!

[19:32] <NickE> Night all

[19:32] <FrGeek> Night

[19:33] * NickE has quit IRC

[19:44] <Birthday_Fred> sarah jane adventures is on the way. 700mb, 4hours.

[19:45] <Harry_Redd> Happy Birthday Fred.

[19:45] <Birthday_Fred> thanks harry :)

[19:45] <Birthday_Fred> how's life in Phoenix going?

[19:45] <Harry_Redd> I'll tell ya when I shake this flu.

[19:45] <Birthday_Fred> bleah

[19:45] <Birthday_Fred> did you get the flu shot?

[19:46] <Harry_Redd> However, I took la Fish to dinner last night at The Black Bear Cafe. Good eats, moderate prices!

[19:46] <Birthday_Fred> always a good combo

[19:47] <Harry_Redd> 16 oz T-Bone, $126 = tax.

[19:48] <Birthday_Fred> that's moderate??

[19:48] <Harry_Redd> Err $16 = tax.

[19:48] <Birthday_Fred> lol

[19:48] <Harry_Redd> about $60 for the 2 of us encluding drinks.

[19:49] <Harry_Redd> That's not bad at all these days.

[19:49] <Birthday_Fred> I bought steaks, gonna bbq 'em tonight

[19:50] <Harry_Redd> I'll probably do Hot Pockets tonight.

[19:51] <Harry_Redd> Been off my feed lately.

[19:52] <Harry_Redd> I should get off line. I didn't sleep well and I've got chores to do.

[19:53] <Birthday_Fred> sorry to hear that harry

[19:53] <Birthday_Fred> hope you feel better soon!

[19:53] <Harry_Redd> Thanks Fred.

[19:54] <Harry_Redd> -GONE+++

[19:54] * Harry_Redd has left #knownspace

[20:00] <FrGeek> Bye now

[20:00] * FrGeek has quit IRC

[20:09] <Nick_Danger> awww. i missed the whole darn chat

[20:11] <Lensman> Hi again Nick

[20:21] * growler has joined #knownspace

[20:26] * growler has quit IRC

[20:58] * Django has joined #knownspace

[20:58] <Django> hola all

[21:00] <Lensman> Hi Django

[21:00] <Django> how we all doing?

[21:00] <Lensman> I'm fine, thanks. And you?

[21:00] <Django> I've been playing Home Improvement, so I kinda forgot about getting in the chat :(

[21:01] <Lensman> Home Improvement, is that an add-on to Sim City or Sim World? :)

[21:01] <Lensman> Anyway, I fear you missed it. Altho if there's any interesting topic you want to discuss, I'm certainly willing.

[21:03] <Django> heh - We bought one of those houses that occasionally makes you think "why the greasy hell did I sign up for this?" every now & then

[21:04] <Django> just put a couple of runs of props & beams in the basement

[21:04] <Django> it now feels odd as the floor is flat(ish)

[21:04] <Django> trying to find any reasonable information on charge/discharge efficiencies for lithium-ion batteries is tricky

[21:05] <Django> "dependent on charge cycle and load"

[21:05] <Lensman> Ah, a "fix-up special". Well I have lots of tools and a woodworking shop, but when it comes to fixing things around the house I fear I am more often "Tim Taylor" than "Bob Villa" :)

[21:06] * steve has joined #knownspace

[21:06] <Django> well, we have 2 acres out in the middle of a windfarm, surrounded by menonite farm and we picked it up for a pittance... it's never going to urbanize

[21:06] <Django> hola steve

[21:06] <steve> hi everbody

[21:07] <Lensman> Battery charge/discharge is dependant on temperature, too. One of the FAQs at the Tesla Motors site specifies the car has an electric heater to keep the battery pack warm in cold weather. But what about when you park it elsewhere? I guess it drains the batteries just keeping them warm. What would that do to the range?

[21:07] <Lensman> Welcome to the "after chat chat" Steve!

[21:07] <Lensman> Or I should say, "after chat" chat.

[21:07] <Django> i love the idea of the tesla car, but I can't help but feel the same about current battery tech as you do about hydrogen ;)

[21:08] <steve> just got off work, havant made a chat on time yet

[21:09] <Django> i'm pretty much in the same boat, steve

[21:09] <Lensman> I don't disagree. I think we're on the verge of having "good" batteries, but we aren't there yet. In fact, one of the FAQs at the Tesla Motors site sez "Why don't you use the XXX battery?" Dunno about batteries but I know there was a lot of buzz over the announcement that someone's invented a battery they say will power a cellphone for 2 weeks between charges. Now THAT sounds like a breathru!

[21:11] <Django> yah - i think we're at a cusp - we're almost able to get away from petrochemicals for power, but there's an uncertain step yet to take

[21:11] <Lensman> The test drive reports sound like the Tesla is a wonderful car, but lets face it, only after someone has owned the thing for 5 years or so can one give a comprehensive report about how good the thing works and what the problems are.

[21:11] <Django> i am somewhat buzzed about the fact that you can run a diesel engine on filtered vegetable oil, however

[21:12] <Django> well, it's based on the lotus elise chassis, so it's gonna be an experience to drive

[21:12] <Django> good sports cars are a thing of beauty

[21:12] * Larry has joined #knownspace

[21:12] <Django> hola larry

[21:12] <Django> !

[21:12] <Larry> Hello. Sorry I'm late.

[21:12] <Lensman> Larry!

[21:13] <Lensman> Welcome!

[21:13] <Lensman> Hey Larry may I ask you a question about "Madness Has Its Place" ?

[21:13] <Larry> I couldn't find the way in until Frank's message arrived. Sure, ask, Lensman.

[21:15] <Larry> Hello? Why did everything go silent?

[21:15] <Django> lol

[21:16] <Django> I'm waiting for lensman's question

[21:16] <Lensman> There's a reference to some exec "bombing" his partner's house, which *seems* to refer to some events in "The Ethics of Madness". However, it says "bombed the house" and not "torched the house", and also it says it happened recently, and since MHIP is set on Earth and the events in TEOM happened something like 12 light years away, I'm wondering if perhaps this was your way of saying "The events as depicted in TEOM didn't happen in Known Space, but som

[21:16] <steve> i thought about making a electric car, decided not to. you can get a kit to turn a vw rabbit into one for about $5000, using 16 golf cart battries(because of size) to get 96v they are suposed to be changed (unusable)every 2-4 of years. making it almost as expensive as a cheep fuel eficent car (a unmodifer vw rabbit

[21:17] <Lensman> The reason I ask is because I recently completed an exhaustively researched chronology of Known Space and "The Ethics of Madness" really can't be fit into my timeline. If TEOM did *not* happen, then it make things much easier.

[21:17] <Lensman> Not that it's your job as author to make chronologists efforts easy!

[21:18] <Lensman> If anyone is interested, my chronology is at...

[21:18] <Django> steve: I have a VW Jetta diesel which gets about 50 miles per imperial gallon or 5.5l per 100km

[21:18] <Lensman>

[21:19] <steve> i have a purple pickup that gets about 14l per 100k

[21:19] <Django> considering that I have a 900 liter diesel tank out the back of my house, for heating oil, it's kinda handy

[21:20] <Django> heating oil is not taxed for road use, but as an emergency backup, it's a great weight off my mind, considering we are so isolated

[21:20] <steve> cheep car, expensive home heat

[21:20] <Larry> "The Ethics of Madness" may not fit easily into known space. Anyway, they're too different takes on one topic, but they don't have to be linked.

[21:22] <Lensman> But what was your intent in putting that reference into "Madness Has Its Place" ? Were you referring to "The Ethics of Madness", or contrariwise were you saying events (in Known Space) did not happen as depicted in "The Ethics of Madness" ?

[21:22] <Lensman> Or the third option I didn't think of... :)

[21:22] <Django> tbh, I think having a precise chronology across Larry's span of work is expecting a little much :) I quite like the growth of writing style from the early stories to the later.

[21:23] <steve> larry- any differance between between the dragons of heorot and beowolfs children?

[21:23] <Lensman> Of course arranging the chronology is difficult; Larry didn't originally conceive of various stories as being part of the same "universe". I understand that.

[21:24] <Django> I found the same thing with my chronology for my RPG history (he says, assigning himself deeply to the realms of geekdom) - simple comments and ideas explored can 'break' earlier stories, but if it's a good read... :)

[21:24] <Django> damnit, I have to re-buy Heorot... it was borrowed and never returned

[21:25] <Django> and my copy of Inferno is dead... apparently it's not just a good read, but an excellent dog chew

[21:25] <Lensman> I see the "job" of the fan chronologer to try to discern what the author *intended*, not re-interpret what the author wrote to fit my own chronology. The theory should fit the facts, not vice versa.

[21:26] <Django> i hear you, Lensman - i had a cyclic history in my game universe - it was bloody difficult to keep a clean causality chain

[21:26] <Lensman> LOL! Well that's one thing my dog Maxy has never done-- chewed up a book. Altho he seems to think any loose piece of paper left on the floor is an invitation for him to make confetti.

[21:30] <Lensman> Anyway... batteries. So what about that news of the battery which can power a cellphone for two weeks? Anybody following that? Is it real? If so, how long will it take before they can mass-produce those? Anything else on the horizon? What do you think about the new super-capacitors using nanotubes which they say could be recharged at a "filling station" for electricity in only 5 minutes?

[21:31] <Lensman> Did we lose Larry?

[21:32] <Larry> I'm back. I heard what I thought was an alarm and ran downstairs. Marilyn was shredding papers.

[21:32] * FrGeek has joined #knownspace

[21:32] <Larry> Lensman, I don

['t remember what I thought when I put that reference in that story.

[21:32] <Lensman> Welcome back Father! Hey, looks like the "after chat" chat has turned into a real chat!

[21:33] <Larry> No difference exists between The Dragons of Heorot and Beowulf's Children.

[21:34] <Lensman> Does _Fleet of Worlds_ have a publication date yet?

[21:34] <Django> i like the heorot/destiny universe

[21:34] <steve> larry- got into an disagrument with a brother in law about the sequal to lea

[21:35] <steve> thanks

[21:35] <FrGeek> Hello all.

[21:36] <Django> hola FrGeek

[21:36] <Lensman> Speaking as someone whose first college major was biology, I find supercharged dragons to be a fascinating idea, on I haven't encountered in any other story.

[21:36] <Larry> "Fleet of Worlds" is due in August/September.

[21:36] <Lensman> Hooray!

[21:36] <Django> sweet

[21:37] <FrGeek> Oohhh a late christmas gift!

[21:37] <Django> hopefully in time for my birthday :-)

[21:37] <steve> me to but i like the openes and posabilitys of the enting, gives room to drean

[21:38] <Lensman> It's been quite a while since I read _Beowulf's Children_ or its sequel. What was the bone of contention?

[21:39] <Django> brb

[21:39] <steve> bc was the sequel

[21:40] <Lensman> Oh, sorry... as I said it's been awhile!

[21:41] <steve> i think,

[21:41] <Larry> LOH and BC lead to a collapse of civilization. All three authors agree. Any later story would have to be centuries later.

[21:41] <Django> back!

[21:42] <Lensman> Clearly I need to re-read BC. I remember the overall plot of LOH fairly well, I think, but can't remember the plot of BC at all.

[21:42] <Django> i have a firm suspicion that civilization collapsed years ago and no one has noticed yet ;)

[21:42] <FrGeek> Do youe meanend of civilation of earth?

[21:42] <Django> BC is good - I prefer Heorot, but BC has a damn good plot

[21:42] <Lensman> I seem to remember BC explores much more of the geography and fauna/ecology of the planet, is that right?

[21:43] <Django> yup - LoH takes place entirely on Avalon - BC goes to the mainland

[21:43] <steve> plot- surfer punk children explour mainland

[21:43] <Lensman> Yah, western civilization ended when Johnny Carson was replaced by Jay Leno. The corpse just hasn't fallen down yet... :)

[21:44] <FrGeek> And I thought it was the Dennis Miller Show ;)

[21:46] <Larry> BC explored the mainland, right, and we got Jack Cohen the biologist involved. We had a lot of fun generating life forms.

[21:46] <Lensman> I enjoyed Dennis Miller! Jay Leno seems all about "see how stupid Americans are" and Dave Letterman always seems to be mocking his guests, and not gently either.

[21:47] <Larry> I like Jay Leno. Dennis Miller is kind of reactionary; would that cause civilization to collapse? Dave Letterman I found irritating, years ago, so stopped watching.

[21:47] <steve> what about "Married with Children" defenatly a low point of civilation

[21:48] <Lensman> Johnny had all those great ongoing routines, from Karnak the Magnificent to his white-trash hunter character. What does Jay give us? Typos in classified ads and his "jaywalking" segments, where he puts on people who give stupid answers to easy questions. That's *so* far beneath Johnny Carson's standards...

[21:49] <Larry> Agreed: I greatly miss Johnny Carson.

[21:49] <Lensman> "Married w/ Children"... well I absolutely agree there. Couldn't even stand the *ads* for that show, let alone the show itself. Gah!

[21:51] <Lensman> But hey, I guess that's a sign I'm getting old, I spend too much time complaining about everything. Anybody have any good news, or any new and interesting discovery? Hey, they finally caught some video footage of a giant squid! Was that reported on the LN list?

[21:51] <FrGeek> I think someone posted it. Impressive.

[21:52] * vilstef has joined #knownspace

[21:52] <Django> I liked Bill Hicks. Sometimes I think I am getting too cynical about the mouth-breathers I work with, them I listen to good old Bill, and it's all better for a while

[21:52] <Django> hola vilstef

[21:52] <vilstef> Hi all

[21:52] <Lensman> Larry: Oops, I missed your "I like Jay Leno" comment. Wasn't trying to argue with you. To each his own!

[21:52] <Larry> Giant squid, yeah, it's real. Wonderful news for us Jules Verne fans.

[21:53] <Lensman> LOL! Yah I'm certainly a Verne fan.

[21:53] <Birthday_Fred> Ah, fellow Verne fans

[21:53] <vilstef> I was just reading a book today that mentioned the contents of Captain Nemo's larder

[21:53] <Django> lol

[21:54] * chorn de-idles

[21:54] <chorn> Hi again

[21:54] <vilstef> The book is Schott's Miscellany of Food and Drink

[21:54] <Lensman> Too bad so many editions of Verne's novels were given a quick-and-dirty translation into English. I have a modern unabridged translation of 20,000 Leagues and it's a wonderful read. Wish there were more well-done translations available.

[21:54] <Birthday_Fred> Did I ever mention I built the Nautilus for the Disney 20,000 Leagues DVD?

[21:55] <chorn> Did anyone resolve the asteroid moving problem yet?

[21:55] <chorn> I find that sort of thing fascinating

[21:56] <Lensman> "Resolve"? Chorn, clearly you don't understand how internet discussions work. Everything gets discussed to death, nothing *ever* gets resolved.

[21:56] <FrGeek> I liked teh double ended rocket idea, Was taht your idea Lensman?

[21:57] <Lensman> <Lensman smiles and buffs his fingernails> I blush to confess it was.

[21:57] <chorn> :)

[21:57] <FrGeek> Well occasion thing to get resolved- IE they admit I am right ;)

[21:57] <Django> sounds like a modified planet mover, a la WooT

[21:57] <Django> ;)

[21:57] <Lensman> LOL! That's the spirit, FrGeek!

[21:57] <chorn> Lensman, I meant more along the lines of beat the thread into submission then move on

[21:57] <vilstef> That's very Granny Clampett, FrGeek

[21:58] <Lensman> Well the thread wound down, yes.

[21:58] <chorn> gotcha

[21:58] <chorn> I tend to get a little agitated is soon as people start posting physics.

[21:59] <chorn> I started reading LH for the first time after the thread started too :)

[22:00] <FrGeek> Sorry, hanging head in shame, I admit I got entire too much fun out of calculating aster size required to expose magma...

[22:01] <Lensman> I'm fine with physics as long as we stick to theory. Once you start throwing in equations, My Eyes Glaze Over. Oh, I can do reasonably simple equations such as for acceleration, but do *not* find that fun.

[22:01] <Django> lol

[22:01] <Django> hrm...

[22:01] <Birthday_Fred>

[22:01] * chorn hands Django a Ruby

[22:02] <Birthday_Fred> top row, 3rd from left

[22:02] * Django deletes the url from his bookmarks for the derivations of newton's equations of motion

[22:02] <Lensman> FrGeek: Well I for one thank you for it! Hey I'm perfectly capable of skimming past all the equations and reading the important stuff-- your final answer.

[22:02] <chorn> Birthday_Fred, that's awesome

[22:03] <Birthday_Fred> thankee :)

[22:03] <chorn> and certainly the sort of thing I have negative talent at

[22:03] <Lensman> But hey I know *real* Hard SF fans can do math. Larry sez the Ringworld can be treated as a suspension bridge with no endpoints... Clearly I'm not a "real" Hard SF fan. <Lensman hangs his head in shame>

[22:03] <chorn> in fact if you review my resume, I have no talents at all. ;)

[22:03] <Lensman> Oh, Happy Birthday Fred!

[22:04] <Django> that's pretty cool, fred

[22:04] <Lensman> I don't need to look at the website... I looked at my 20,000 Leagues DVD the last time Fred talked about that CGI model.

[22:04] <chorn> I haven't done real math since college. Why can't us serious programmer types get any respect anywhere?

[22:04] * chorn smirks

[22:05] <Django> lol@chorn

[22:05] <Birthday_Fred> more of same

[22:05] <Birthday_Fred>

[22:05] <Lensman> It's *very* nice. In the DVD menu when the Nautilus first comes out of the murk, I thought it was a shot from the movie. I wasn't until the model got much "closer" that I could see it was CGI.

[22:05] <FrGeek> Ok come on we need programmers because you make us geeks look les geeky!

[22:05] <chorn> Django, if I said I just started a serious ruby on rails project, would you hold it against me?

[22:06] <chorn> I worked 9pm-6am last night moving crap around in my noc

[22:06] <chorn> it was a pile of suck

[22:07] <Django> chorn: I couldn't say a word... I have a warehousing system live in two warehouses that's running on php/mysql

[22:07] <Birthday_Fred> thanks lensman!

[22:07] <Lensman> is one of the best websites around. I've even posted on their forum a few times. I have a close friend who's rabid about the Disney Nautilus, has several models of it.

[22:08] <FrGeek> They did come up with one the best Nautilus, even if they make Nemo an englishman...

[22:08] <Lensman> He originally turned me on to the site, then Fred prodded me about it again, so I went and read some of the forum threads. Finagle those people are obsessed! They make hard-core trekkers look like fringe fans.

[22:09] <chorn> Is better than ?

[22:09] <Django> our corporate sales guy is a disney freak

[22:10] <chorn> wow, this guy chorn idles all day then you can't shut him up

[22:10] <Lensman> I think that's like asking is a Porche better than a Rolls? No comparison.

[22:10] <chorn> When did Harry_Redd split?

[22:11] <Lensman> Most chatters left like 90 minutes to 2 hours ago.

[22:11] <Django> back in a min - puppy maintenance

[22:12] <chorn> I forgot about the chat most of the day until just now. Cryin baby interrupted our Super Munchkin game.

[22:12] <Lensman> So... asteroids. FrGeek, was your answer a 12 km meteorite?

[22:13] <FrGeek> 16 km

[22:13] <Lensman> Anybody know of a website that talks about the probability over time of meteorite impacts of graduated sizes?

[22:14] <FrGeek> Well I though about doing that too, More metorites sreads ot the damage a lot more.

[22:15] <steve> i thought big ones (city killers) every 1000 years or so

[22:16] <Lensman> Lotta variables there, tho. The continent foundations are mainly granite, the sea floor mainly denser (but thinner) basalt. Meteorites may be rocky or metallic, and have varying speeds of impact. So, a lot of variables.

[22:18] <Lensman> Also, what's the possibility that an impact insufficient to throw out and/or vaporize enuff bedrock to create a hole will nonetheless crack the crust locally enuff to cause a major upwelling of magma?

[22:19] <Lensman> 16 km sounds like a lot bigger than just "city killer", am I right?

[22:19] <Larry> Jerry and I have been persuaded that it's time to throw something at the Earth again.

[22:19] <Lensman> Details please Larry!

[22:19] <Larry> 16 km diameter is bigger than a dinosaur killer!

[22:19] <FrGeek> Back of envolope caculation a 16 km asteropd in obe colusuion woudl make one 80 km radius crater, if broken up into would make 4096 1 km asreiods each woudl make a 5 km radius crater

[22:20] <Lensman> The question posed on the list was: How big an asteroid would it take to punch a hole in the Earth's crust and so make an enormous magma upwelling?

[22:20] <FrGeek> Larry the orignal questio was tryingto figure an asterid tah twoudl open up the mantle

[22:20] <Larry> Details: get all our data from the newspapers. Use NASA hardware--and decide whether they can really build it.

[22:21] <FrGeek> We think big ;)

[22:21] <Lensman> So is this to be a short, a novlet, or a book?

[22:22] <Larry> book.

[22:22] <Lensman> Did I get that term right... "novlet" is what you call them Larry?

[22:22] <Lensman> Oho! And is this a new take or a sequel?

[22:23] <Larry> new take. near-current time.

[22:24] <Lensman> So may we ask if this is a "space mission to save the earth from impact" story, or a disaster story, or both? Or would that be revealing too much?

[22:26] <Larry> I can't tell you whether it will hit.

[22:27] <Lensman> Anything else you can say? Does it have a title yet? Is it in the "lets talk about it" phase, or have you started writing?

[22:27] <FrGeek> You mean we are going to buy the book?

[22:28] <Larry> We've barely started talking. We need to finish "Purgatorio" first.

[22:29] <Lensman> So what stage is "Purgatorio" at? First draft finished yet?

[22:29] <FrGeek> I'm really looking forward to that!

[22:30] <FrGeek> I assume that woudl mena there will be anotherprinting of inferno.

[22:30] <steve> same here

[22:30] <Lensman> I confess _Inferno_ is one novel I *never* expected to see a sequel to!

[22:30] <Lensman> Hopefully with a better cover than the original.

[22:30] <steve> courous about basic plot

[22:33] <Larry> We're 3/4 finished. Yes, Inferno will be reprinted. We'll have to write a new Intro.

[22:33] <Larry> Basic plot for hitting the Earth? Doesn't exist yet.

[22:34] <Lensman> What about _Juggler of Worlds_? Has writing on that started yet?

[22:34] <Larry> Juggler of Worlds is also 3/4 finished, first draft looks very finalish.

[22:34] <FrGeek> if your looking a for a chaater may I suggest a brave priest-physicist - that works for both books ;)

[22:35] <Lensman> Does Juggler follow immediately after Fleet or does some time pass between the two?

[22:36] <Lensman> I mean, in the internal chronology.

[22:37] <Lensman> BTW Larry I'm glad to hear Sigmund is in Juggler. He always was one of my favorite characters! Was sorry to see him killed off in "Ghost".

[22:39] <Larry> I am summoned to a party. Fair you well all.

[22:39] <FrGeek> Whoa sound liek ether a lot of pokers in the f ire

[22:40] * Larry has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)

[22:41] <Lensman> That's odd: "*g0ne*" not "*gone*".

[22:42] <FrGeek> Odd that he was in so late too

[22:42] <Django> back

[22:43] <Lensman> Yah from what others have said I think it's unusual for him to show up so late.

[22:44] <steve> by

[22:44] * steve has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)

[22:45] <FrGeek> Like soem party is more fun than being here talking with us ;)

[22:45] <Lensman> I've been to parties that good... no offence to present company ;)

[22:46] <chorn> hrm

[22:46] <vilstef> I was at a 4 day New Years Party that was like that

[22:46] <chorn> how high to ICBMs go?

[22:47] <chorn> high atmosphere, but not near low orbit correct?

[22:47] <vilstef> How high does the airliner fly? Excuse me, I was thinking of the punchline of a joke

[22:47] <chorn> I don't know the joke :)

[22:48] <vilstef> There was a thing a number of years ago about the toilets in airliners leaking 'blue ice'

[22:49] <vilstef> And some wag made the remark about if the ice broke off, you could get hit by an Icey BM

[22:49] <Django> ooooooooooooh

[22:50] <chorn> I was just thinking about how close it was to the space station

[22:50] <vilstef> I was just listening for the crickets, thanks for the reaction :)

[22:50] <chorn> how much farther would an ICBM have to go to be in the vicinty of the space station and a shuttle

[22:51] <chorn> in terms of assembling an adhoc intercept vehicle for an asteroid

[22:51] <FrGeek> THey can get to low orbit several hundred KM amost 1000KM

[22:51] <chorn> I should post it to the list

[22:51] <Lensman> It's a ballistic trajectory, so it goes *very* far up. Wiki sez 1200 km.

[22:51] <Django> i think we're pretty pathetic right now for anything outside LEO

[22:51] <FrGeek> Space shuttle goe sup 250miel IIFC

[22:52] <Lensman> Hey, write it up as a Ferdinand Feghoot and send it into Analog. Maybe you can get paid for that horrid pun...

[22:52] * Flying_away is now known as FlyingDragon

[22:52] <FlyingDragon> hey, there are more people here than ever!

[22:52] <chorn> uhm

[22:52] <chorn> I don't get Ferdinand Feghoot

[22:52] <Lensman> Hi Carol! Sadly you missed Larry, he was called away to a party.

[22:52] <FlyingDragon> Fred! They say it's your birthday! Happy Birthday to you!

[22:52] <FlyingDragon> Cool. Cool for him. Sad for me.

[22:53] <chorn> Perhaps its too late, or I didn't get enough sleep, or the drink I had was too big

[22:53] <FrGeek> was that steve barnes with him?

[22:53] <Lensman> Tch, tch, what are they teaching young fen these days! Does Analog no longer run Ferdinand Feghoot stories? Well they are shaggy dog stories, if you know what those are.

[22:54] <chorn> oh

[22:54] <chorn> I don't get Analog, and I've got to be some sort of bottom of the barrel fen

[22:54] <chorn> I don't even go to cons

[22:54] <Lensman> A long rambling story setup for a joke with the payoff an awful pun. That Icey BM should work just fine...

[22:55] <chorn> Icey BM I get :)

[22:55] <Django> ahh yes, like the rarey bird

[22:55] <Django> or the gluggle-uggle box

[22:56] <Django> chorn:

[22:56] <Lensman> Chorn: Fandom is changing. Why shouldn't it? The future is now! There's lots more fanac online now than there ever was in the days of fanzines.

[22:57] <FrGeek> Yah geeks no longer have to go to cons to meet

[22:57] <Django> online comms make shared interest groups a lot easier in some ways

[22:57] <Lensman> The Internet is run by geeks.

[22:58] <FlyingDragon> Fans are still more fun in person, esp hob nobbing with the writers is more fun at cons.

[22:58] <FlyingDragon> We will always need cons!!!!

[22:58] <chorn> don't get me wrong, if there were cons in the area I would go as long as it didn't impact quality time with the fam

[22:59] <Lensman> Dj: Oh, absolutely. Fandom is such a wide spectrum; I have much more interesting conversations on the LN list than I do 90% of the time at cons or fan parties.

[22:59] <FlyingDragon> I remember a shaggy dog story that ended with the pun "Shah Guido, Gee." I can't get the punch line out of my head decades later, but I can't recall anything more of hte story!!!!

[22:59] <Lensman> I mean, because the LN list focuses interest on stuff *I* like to talk about.

[23:00] <Lensman> Whizz! <Sound of "Shah" reference zooming over Lensman's head>

[23:00] <chorn> except for abortin debates ;)

[23:00] <Django> the biggest drawback to lists and the like is that it is still quite impersonal - written comms is so prone to mis-interpretation

[23:00] <vilstef> Asimov did Shah Guido G

[23:01] <chorn> yeah, i'm a much bigger jerk in person

[23:01] <vilstef> Asimov did lots of Shaggy Dog stories

[23:01] <FlyingDragon> VIlstef, thank you.

[23:01] <Lensman> Dj: That's quite true. Face to face there's inflection, facial expression, gesture... all that is lost online. Sometimes people are joking and you can't tell.

[23:01] <FrGeek> Ouch found a web site filled with them "Tarzan's Tripes Forever" ther are several thousand!!!

[23:02] <Lensman> LOL! Tarzan's...

[23:03] <vilstef> One thing I love about internet conversations is I can consult Google & Wikipedia-my memory extentions

[23:03] <Django> this has always been my favourite:

[23:03] <Lensman> Vil: Yes. I was just now able to answer the ICBM trajectory question in real time, thanx to Google.

[23:03] <vilstef> As long as I get the search terms right. LOL

[23:04] <FlyingDragon> frgeek, looking for ways to make us waste our time?????

[23:04] <Lensman> Yes, the correct search terms are the rub, all right.

[23:04] <FlyingDragon> Django, you too! For shame!!!!

[23:04] <FrGeek> Thats what the internet is for right? wasting time?

[23:05] <Django> FlyingDragon: I have no shame - I work in IT!

[23:05] <vilstef> I've only met one Niven lister BTW, and that was at a Con.

[23:05] <Lensman> "Shame"?? Sez the black belt who brought up the Asimov shaggy dog story puchline. Pot calling kettle black! :)

[23:05] <Django>

[23:05] <Django> quote #2 :p

[23:06] <FlyingDragon> :-)

[23:06] <vilstef> Django, working in it is better than playing an IT specialist on TV

[23:06] <FlyingDragon> FUn fun: hanging with all the high level black belts tonight.

[23:06] <Django> hey - I play hard - I managed to get my guys a Steak & Strippers night for their xmas meal ;)

[23:06] <FlyingDragon> Hated to come home. But I have to put the kids down. Cna't spend time looking at al lthos eShaggy dog stories tonight. Wil lhave to wait till tomorrow night!!!

[23:07] <Django> watching geeks around strippers was worth it :)

[23:07] <FrGeek> Sorry, shoudl have kept my mouth shut...

[23:07] <FlyingDragon> LOL

[23:08] <Lensman> Oh, what's the Futurama quote? "The Internet was used for the purpose of free exchange of other people's ideas". Or something like that.

[23:09] <FlyingDragon> Other people? LOL

[23:09] * UncleNasty has joined #knownspace

[23:09] * Django has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)

[23:09] <UncleNasty> yargh - i got split

[23:10] <FlyingDragon> gotta chase the kids to bed. Bye guys!!!

[23:10] * FlyingDragon is now known as BeingMommyDragon

[23:10] <UncleNasty> see ya carol

[23:10] <Lensman> Bye Carol, Nasty

[23:11] <UncleNasty> ahh - best description of the internet: "The Internet is a communication tool used the world over where people can come together to bitch about movies and share pornography with one another. "

[23:11] <Lensman> LOL! That's pretty good.

[23:11] <BeingMommyDragon> WEll, I don't share any porno with any one, not at least overthe net!!!!

[23:11] <BeingMommyDragon> bye all

[23:11] <UncleNasty> ROFL

[23:11] <vilstef> Bye

[23:12] * BeingMommyDragon really gone now

[23:12] <Lensman> Yah, I guess I'm missing half the fun too. Not that I've made any attempt to find those X-rated chat rooms.

[23:12] * UncleNasty is stuck in IMDB browsing quotes

[23:13] <UncleNasty> argh - it's sapping my will to close firefox!

[23:13] <UncleNasty> btw, anyone who has not seen Clerks 2... it's worth it just for Pillowpants...

[23:15] <Lensman> Other than "Dogma", Kevin Smith movies don't seem to be my cup of tea. I saw "Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back" on TV the other day, glad I didn't spend any money to see it.

[23:15] <FrGeek> I read on defintion of the interenet tah texplained " th eInernet evolved evolved from DARPANET which was designed so that in the case of nuclear attack, porn could still viewed."

[23:15] <Lensman> What was someone just saying about bitching about movies... ? LOL!

[23:16] <Lensman> I found "Clerks" occasionally amusing, but certainly not up to all the rave reviews it received.

[23:16] <UncleNasty> lol@FrGeek

[23:17] <Lensman> Yah that's a pretty observent commentary on the Internet all right.

[23:17] <FrGeek> Well I must be off, goodnight all

[23:17] <Lensman> G'nite Father.

[23:17] <Birthday_Fred> nite geek

[23:17] * FrGeek has quit IRC

[23:17] <UncleNasty> Lensman: I guess it's an acquired taste. I found that a lot of the dialog in Kevin Smith's movies bears a close resemblance to my teenage years

[23:18] <Lensman> That may be my problem with Kevin Smith, it may be aimed at a younger audience. For me, there was "October Sky".

[23:19] <vilstef> At age 52 I'm a long ways out of Smith's demographic, but I've been amused by his films

[23:19] <UncleNasty> not to mention that the concept of a "Pussy Troll" made my ribs hurt from laughing

[23:19] <vilstef> Dogma being my favorite

[23:19] <UncleNasty> dogma is good

[23:19] <Lensman> Ah well then we're almost exactly the same age.

[23:20] <Lensman> I enjoyed Dogma. A wonderfully complex film.

[23:20] <vilstef> I tell people I'm 72, and they're whippersnappers

[23:20] <UncleNasty> hrm

[23:20] <vilstef> Yes, a whole lot going on it Dogma

[23:21] <Lensman> Not to mention brilliant parody. The shooting the angels' wings off in a bloody fashion didn't "work" for me, tho. Didn't seem to fit the concept.

[23:22] <vilstef> It would make a great double feature with Good Omens if only someone would make Good Omens into a decent film

[23:23] <UncleNasty> ahh now - Good Omens is on another level entirely

[23:23] <vilstef> GOD as a bit part in Dogma was pretty amusing

[23:23] <UncleNasty> i liked smith's explanation of why he chose a canadian to play god ;)

[23:23] <Lensman> Not to change the subject, but I hope y'all have seen "Free Enterprise". It's a wonderful movie made by fans, about fans, for fans. And it's a "real" movie too-- not a "fan film". Do yourself a favor and order the DVD online. That movie should show at *every* con-- it's really about the fan culture!

[23:24] <Lensman> Didn't see Good Omens, sorry.

[23:24] <UncleNasty> it's a book by pratchett & gaimen

[23:25] <UncleNasty> gaiman, sorry

[23:25] <Lensman> Oh! Sorry I thought you were talking about another movie. That title does ring a bell now, but haven't read it. Certainly have heard positive things about it.

[23:26] <UncleNasty> oh damn you, google:

[23:26] <Lensman> Haven't thought much of the Terry Pratchett I've read, but that seems to be worth another go.

[23:27] <UncleNasty> what pratchett have you tried?

[23:27] <Lensman> _Strata_ and one of the discworld novels, don't remember which.

[23:27] <SeanS> hi neil

[23:27] <UncleNasty> if nothing else you should attempt Small Gods

[23:27] <UncleNasty> hey sean

[23:27] <vilstef> Good Omens is highly recommended

[23:28] <Lensman> Why is Google being cursed in return for pointing you to a "Good Omens" website ??

[23:29] <vilstef> Night Watch is another I'm very partial to.

[23:30] <vilstef> Try The Last Hero too

[23:30] <UncleNasty> Lensman: Because I need to go out to my car and get smokes, not search for book quotes online, but it's so easy and you always think "just one more" and think you can give it up any time, but then you see the link to a site you've never seen before and before you know it, you're bookmarking another site, etc

[23:30] <UncleNasty> last hero rocks - the artwork is awesome

[23:30] <Lensman> LOL! Yah been there done that, Uncle.

[23:31] <vilstef> Yeah me too, bookmark King

[23:31] <Lensman> "Google: Bet you can't visit just one!"

[23:32] <Lensman> I really should bookmark *more* than I do. I'm forever wishing I could find that one website again, which I formerly found only after a long search...

[23:32] <UncleNasty> first it's google, then it's demonoid, and before you know it, you're viewing pornography involving acts you never considered to be physically possible, let along erotic

[23:32] <UncleNasty> s/along/alone

[23:32] <Lensman> But today I was able to find the Cthulhu "Chick Tract" again quickly, altho it's been removed from its original site because (I think) a C&D letter was sent to the creator.

[23:33] <UncleNasty> who shall be eaten first?

[23:33] <vilstef> I have a short list for that

[23:33] <UncleNasty> damn you, google!

[23:34] <UncleNasty> brb - need smokes, damnit ;)

[23:34] <Lensman> Most porn I've seen online I find less than stimulating. But then, I never pay so I'm just seeing the free stuff.

[23:34] <Lensman> What's "demonoid" ?

[23:36] <Lensman> Oh, Wiki knows what that is... Illegal Downloads 'R Us!

[23:36] <vilstef> Seems to be a bit torrent site

[23:36] <UncleNasty> demonoid is a torrent site

[23:37] <UncleNasty> i use demonoid to catch up on missed tv shows and to assist in the conversion of my vinyl to digital

[23:37] <Lensman> But Wiki first pointed me to a Swedish "extreme metal" band... ;)

[23:37] <SeanS> thats what i use giganews for

[23:37] <vilstef> BTW Lensman, your mention of Oreos reminded me of this site:

[23:38] <Lensman> Oreos? That doesn't ring a bell. Perhaps someone else was talking about that?

[23:38] <vilstef> They have some fun games there, I like the tabletop golf

[23:38] * UncleNasty lights cigarette & gazes longingly at his refilled rum & coke, and browses to

[23:38] <UncleNasty> who said I had an addictive personality?

[23:38] <SeanS> not me

[23:39] * SeanS just opened a beer and lit a cig

[23:39] <Lensman> The dancing cigarette girls who came in while you were gone. Why?

[23:39] <UncleNasty> heh

[23:39] <vilstef> Someone's flashing back to the 50s

[23:40] <UncleNasty> hrm - 50s flashers is more puretna territory

[23:40] <UncleNasty> ;)

[23:41] <Lensman> I am barely old enuff to remember those commercials. Ray Harryhausen did a demo using Lucky Strikes, was not sold to the company, but it's on the "Ray Harryhausen: The Early Years Collection" DVD set. which is a real treasure for an animation buff like me.

[23:43] <vilstef> I remember seeing some of those commercials, but then I remember my first sentient thought

[23:43] <UncleNasty> i sat my son down in front of a sinbad movie the other day - he asked why they didn't use computer graphics for the effects...

[23:43] <Lensman> Our SF club did an animation festival last year. I wanted to put that in-- for one thing, it's very *different* than most types of animation. The committee as a whole nixed it, but I think we snuck it in as one of the things we showed during intermission.

[23:44] <Lensman> *Sigh* the ignorance of youth... I was talking about a "record" and the teen didn't know what I meant.

[23:44] <vilstef> Kinda like 'winding a watch'

[23:45] <Lensman> But then, our grandparents though exactly the same about us.

[23:45] <vilstef> You mean we didn't always have computers and MP3s? LOL!

[23:45] <UncleNasty> yup - i showed one of my juniors some cobol code yesterday and he said "that's a programming language?!?"

[23:46] <Lensman> LOL! Yah I dressed up as a '50s reporter a few weeks back, the Laser Rangers were having a '50s reporter movies theme. I found a watch belonging to my late step-father. I tried winding the stem but it didn't start. Later I found it was running. Maybe it was one of those watches that winds itself with a pendulum as you move around, I dunno.

[23:48] <vilstef> I have a small collection of pocket watches, but there's one cheater in the bunch-it's battery powered-keeps terrible time too.

[23:49] <Lensman> My computer clock keeps terrible time, always running fast. Is there a way to adjust that on a Windoz platform?

[23:50] <UncleNasty> Lensman: yeah - there's a cool little atomic clock sync app

[23:51] <UncleNasty> Lensman: What OS are you running?

[23:51] <Lensman> What I find annoying is a pendulum clock that is actually battery driven. That's just *wrong*! I enjoy contemplating the complex mechanics of an actual pendulum timepiece.

[23:51] <Lensman> Windoz 95 SE.

[23:52] <UncleNasty> whoooo you're kidding, right?

[23:53] <UncleNasty> not sure about win 95...

[23:53] <Lensman> If I wanted to kid, I'd say MS-DOS. Or better yet, PRO DOS.

[23:53] <UncleNasty> heh

[23:55] <Lensman> I confess I hadn't thought about looking for a way for my 'puter to sync itself using one of the time standard websites. I know I've read there's a way to adjust the clock rate on a 'puter... maybe it's in the Windoz Control Panel. Oh well, I can find the info with Google no doubt.

[23:55] <UncleNasty> well, it's a while since I've looked for windows software, but something like:

[23:55] <UncleNasty> pc onboard clocks are notoriously bad

[23:56] <Lensman> Oops! Sorry I *was* kidding, I'm running Windoz 98 SE not Win 95. Duh.

[23:56] <Lensman> Keep getting those two mixed up.

[23:57] <Lensman> No wonder I got the "you're kidding" reaction.

[23:57] <UncleNasty> Lensman: you may be a prime candidate for ubuntu:

[23:58] <UncleNasty> well, I still have two win 95 machines running alegacy app on my vancouver site, but they're isolated from the network

[23:58] <Lensman> I'm still running WordPerfect 7, if I want to upgrade to Win XP I'll have to upgrade my WordPerfect suite too. It won't run on anything later, can't even be patched.

[23:58] <UncleNasty>

[23:59] * UncleNasty tries not to zealot too hard

[23:59] <Lensman> But I know I do need to upgrade, there are some programs I use which the latest version isn't compatible with Win 98. Like ZoneAlarm.

[23:59] <Birthday_Fred> lol, I have a battery driven pendulum clock

[23:59] <Birthday_Fred> but I understand what you mean

Session Time: Sun Jan 07 00:00:00 2007

[00:00] <vilstef> Battery driven pendulum clock always seemed really unnatural to me

[00:00] <Lensman> <Lensman tries to excercise patience> I have OpenOffice, thank you. When someone sends me a Word file, I open it there. But For the sometimes complex desktop pubbing I do, WordPerfect is much more capable than a clone of a clone of WordPerfect.

[00:02] <Lensman> Excel certainly is the best spreadsheet, tho, and altho I haven't used OpenOffice's clone of that, it certainly would be my first choice to set up one. Haven't needed to use a spreadsheet at home for some years, altho sometimes use it at work.

[00:03] <Lensman> A pendulum clock should give that soothing, peaceful "tick... tock..." sound. The battery driven ones are silent.

[00:03] <vilstef> Yeah, that's what makes them unnatural.

[00:04] <vilstef> Like a fake, non heating electric fireplace, all show, no go.

[00:04] <Lensman> MS Word started out as a less-capable clone of WordPerfect. And so far as I'm concerned that's still what it is.

[00:04] <UncleNasty> heh - i saw a fireplace DVD the other day... i think it had a fishtank on there, too

[00:05] <UncleNasty> ms word still has an unpatched vulnerability which could be nasty

[00:05] <vilstef> Yeah, burn that television!

[00:06] <Lensman> LOL! Fireplace DVD. My "aquarium" DVD is StarGaze, a collection of Hubble images, set to soothing music by a band called "2002". I play it for atmosphere on my home theatre at Laser Rangers sessions before we start. I've received lots of compliments on my choice, too! I don't often buy DVDs blind, but based on a rave online review I ordered that one, and am *very* glad I did!

[00:07] <vilstef> Gotta go to my weekend job in a while, so I'll be signing for now. Might sign back in at work after midnight

[00:07] <Lensman> G'nite Vilstef

[00:07] <vilstef> Cya later guys, it's been fun.

[00:07] <UncleNasty> ttyl vilstef

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[00:09] <Lensman> Altho there *is* something hypnotic about a fireplace, I can certainly see that if you wanted to set a romantic mood that a fireplace DVD might be just the ticket.

[00:10] <UncleNasty> personally I'll stick with my hyperspace screensaver ;)

[00:11] <UncleNasty>

[00:14] <Lensman> Oooh, gorgeous! Is that still it, or is your screen saver animated?

[00:14] <UncleNasty> animated

[00:14] <UncleNasty> the wormhole and the colour planes are independent

[00:14] <UncleNasty> and the planes occasionally fuse across to each other - it's really nice

[00:16] <UncleNasty> though it is somewhat processor intensive...

[00:17] <UncleNasty> as in "holy crap! why is my laptop overheating?"

[00:18] <Lensman> Is the screensaver free or did you have to pay for it? I'd love to see it on *my* system!

[00:18] <UncleNasty> well, this is where I zealot some more

[00:19] <UncleNasty> it's a linux based program - it' don't work in windows

[00:19] <Lensman> I've thought about getting a laptop but I'm absent-minded and I'm afraid I'd go off and leave it behind. If I got one I'd have to quite literally chain it to me so I wouldn't lose it.

[00:19] <Lensman> :(

[00:19] <UncleNasty> it's in ubuntu O:-)

[00:20] <UncleNasty> it is a freebie

[00:20] <UncleNasty> as is ubuntu

[00:21] <Lensman> Well maybe someday the Open Source movement will come up with a good Windoz emulator that will run my games (Civilization II, Master of Orion II) and my WordPerfect suite, then I can convert to Linux and LAUGH at MicroSatan's attempts to keep us all on the upgrade treadmill!

[00:21] <UncleNasty> lol

[00:21] <Lensman> Is ubunto an OS or what?

[00:21] <UncleNasty> cedega works for most of my 'doze gaming

[00:21] <UncleNasty> ubuntu is a linux OS

[00:21] <Lensman> What is cedega?

[00:22] <UncleNasty> it's an emulator for windows games

[00:22] <Lensman> Hmmm, people keep telling me there is no good Windoz emulator. Are they ignorant, or is this new?

[00:22] <UncleNasty> it's new ish

[00:23] <UncleNasty>

[00:23] <UncleNasty> it plays most of the up to dat egames

[00:23] <UncleNasty> i play diablo 2 using wine

[00:23] <UncleNasty> wine is the original emulator cedega was based on

[00:26] <UncleNasty>

[00:28] <UncleNasty> civ 3 works on cedega:

[00:28] <Lensman> Well I hope it works better than the Apple ]

[ emulator I installed on my Windoz platform. I managed to get it to the point where it actually tried to access a disk image before crashing... why can't these guys give us detailed instructions on exactly how to install and configure this stuff? Honestly I'm not computer illiterate, I've programmed in BASIC and used MS-DOS, but I found the FAQ on this guy's website to be too cryptic. "Oh, you have to dow

[00:29] <UncleNasty> MOO2 appears to work, too:

[00:29] <Lensman> Well clearly it's something I should check out, thanx Uncle!

[00:30] <UncleNasty> that's one of the reasons I like linux - there's a lot of community sites out there that can answer pretty much any question you have to getting stuff working

[00:30] <UncleNasty> cedega is slick, though - you load the emu and it lists your installed 'doze games... click the link and the game starts up - no messing

[00:31] <Lensman> Hmmm, looks like Cedega is NOT a free download.

[00:32] <UncleNasty> well, they have a subscription fee, but, tbh, $15 is not a lot to pay for what it gives you

[00:32] <UncleNasty> $15=$/month for 3 month sub

[00:32] <UncleNasty> $5!

[00:33] <Lensman> Yah that is what I was gonna say next, $15 to be able to reliably play Windoz games under Linux certainly isn't bad.

[00:33] <UncleNasty> and I find for the older games (read pre-directX) wine works well

[00:35] <UncleNasty> i guess your only lack would be wordperfect

[00:36] <UncleNasty> which would be addressed by

[00:38] <Lensman> Someone said there was a Linux clone of WordPerfect, but I don't know anything about how well it works, what version it's based on or how reliable it is.

[00:38] <UncleNasty> it's not a clone

[00:38] <UncleNasty> corel sell wordperfect for linux

[00:38] <Lensman> Maybe I should just get a castoff computer and try out this Linux stuff to see if it will work for me.

[00:38] <UncleNasty>

[00:39] <UncleNasty> it'd be worth a try

[00:39] <UncleNasty> you may even be able to get another hard drive & set up a dual boot

[00:40] <Lensman> Yah, well that's prolly out of my price range. I *can* afford to buy an OEM CD off e-bay for $20!

[00:40] <Lensman> Which is what I need to do to upgrade to WordPerfect 11.

[00:40] <UncleNasty> US$99 for wordperfect office

[00:43] <Lensman> Thanks for your help with this, Uncle, I appreciate the info.

[00:43] <UncleNasty> no problem

[00:44] <UncleNasty> anything to free a niven fan fron windows ;)

[00:46] <Lensman> I never did like Windoz. I stuck with MS-DOS for years. But I do admit the WYSIWYG version of WordPerfect is a much better way to do desktop pubbing than the old MS-DOS 3.11 version, which used an 80-column text display.

[00:47] <UncleNasty> you should look at lyx

[00:47] <Lensman> However, I think it's crazy for a chat client (like the one I'm using right now) or an e-mail program to need a GUI. Text is text!

[00:47] <UncleNasty> it's wysiwym

[00:48] <Lensman> IIRC it was Civilization II which forced me to convert to Windoz. Civ I ran under MS-DOS but Civ II was realeased *only* in a Windoz (and maybe Mac) version.

[00:50] <Lensman> What's the final word in WYSIWYM ?

[00:50] <UncleNasty> Mean

[00:50] <UncleNasty>

[00:51] <Lensman> Hmmm... not unless the 'puter can read minds. We're not to the point of _Oath of Fealty_ interfaces yet... :)

[00:53] <UncleNasty> heh

[00:53] <UncleNasty> lyx is a typesetting app - very _very_ slick

[00:56] <Lensman> I'm quite fond of the saying "The darn computer did what I told it to, not what I wanted!" :)

[00:57] <Lensman> And I've done enuff programming to know how true that is.

[00:57] <UncleNasty> lol

[00:59] <UncleNasty> okay - i have to bail

[01:00] <UncleNasty> enjoy the food-for-thought

[01:00] <Lensman> G'nite Uncle, thanx again!

[01:00] <UncleNasty> but, seriously consider ubuntu if you're on win 98 - it's easy & slick to install & and you don't have to worry about a lot of the windows crap

[01:00] <UncleNasty> ttyl

[01:00] <UncleNasty> see you on the list ;)

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[01:00] <Lensman> Right-O

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[01:16] <vilstef> Anyone here?

[01:16] <BeingMommyDragon> yes, but I"m falling asleep

[01:17] <vilstef> How are you Carol, aside from falling asleep?

[01:18] <vilstef> I'm at my weekend job right now. The computer types in fits and starts, because of the firewall I suspect

[01:19] <BeingMommyDragon> Had a great day. Masters club, got lots of arrows in the target, adn compliments from thehead instructor and the master. Got to hang with high level black belts at a party at my master house.

[01:20] <BeingMommyDragon> Tomorrow I'm having a scrapbook party. I think about 8 people are coming, maybe fewer. It will be a nice size, I think.

[01:20] <BeingMommyDragon> How are you?

[01:21] <vilstef> Sounds way kewl. I've got a bit of a virus, and a very low energy level because of it. I got some needed rest today, and here I am staying up all night

[01:23] <BeingMommyDragon> WHat is your weekend job?

[01:25] <vilstef> Man of all work at a parking lot. Drive the bus, cashier, maintainance, customer service. Like they say in the military, 'Let George do it." Here I'm George.

[01:26] <vilstef> On my regular job I'm customer service for Wells Fargo Home Mortgage

[01:26] <BeingMommyDragon> So, you spend a lot of time sitting in the guard shack playing at the computer?

[01:26] <vilstef> Oh, yes.

[01:27] <BeingMommyDragon> COngratulations, I'm sorry, whichever is appropriate.

[01:27] <BeingMommyDragon> Where do you live?

[01:27] <vilstef> I'll need to fuel the bus and do a car count a bit later, then wait for early birds.

[01:28] <vilstef> Des Moines Iowa

[01:28] <vilstef> Where we have no snow on the ground btw

[01:30] <BeingMommyDragon> The masters' daughter is going to Korea for a year, and this was a going away party for her. I found a "sad you're leaving card" that on the front said something like "All these new people are going to get the joy and pleasure of being around you every day" and a cartoon of a bunch of happy cartoon bears. Inside, it says something like "Too bad for us" with a bunch of sad cartoon bears. I fixed the inside bears up in little martial arts uniform

[01:30] <vilstef> I like that :)

[01:31] <BeingMommyDragon> Still, it must be cold. Not good for getting better. Sometimes, I get a cough that won't leave for months, and I have to take dayquil and niquil to manage. It is the only over the counter that works for me.

[01:32] <BeingMommyDragon> Ty, vilstef. I felt totally inspired! I'll hear about how clever I am tomorrow and monday, but I missed seeing her open the card.

[01:32] <vilstef> I must be doing something right, I've only had about one cold in the past 3 years.

[01:32] <BeingMommyDragon> cool.

[01:32] <BeingMommyDragon> Wash your hands a lot?

[01:33] <vilstef> Yes, I do. I've taken to using an anti-bacterial hand clenser too

[01:33] <BeingMommyDragon> I bet that helps.

[01:33] <BeingMommyDragon> irrigating the nose helps too, a lot like washing hands.

[01:33] <vilstef> Doesn't seem to have hurt anyway

[01:34] <BeingMommyDragon> Well, three years cold free is a significant achievement.

[01:35] <vilstef> And even when I'm congested I can breath at night-I'm on cpap sleep therapy and the machine keeps the sinuses and throat open

[01:36] <vilstef> Colds can wear you down, and I used to have them constantly

[01:36] <BeingMommyDragon> YOu have a hard time sleeping? and that is what this machine is for?

[01:38] <vilstef> Snored fit to bust a house for years. And it keeps the throat open thru positive air pressure. I was waking up 30 or more times an hour.

[01:38] <vilstef> The cpap has really worked well for me.

[01:39] <BeingMommyDragon> Wow.

[01:39] <vilstef> I would sometimes stop breathing for a minute or more

[01:39] <BeingMommyDragon> My sister used to snore really loudly. It didn't wake her though.

[01:39] <BeingMommyDragon> That long?????

[01:39] <vilstef> I feel like the elephant man with the mask on.

[01:40] <vilstef> The snoring doesn't wake you, it's the lack of oxygen

[01:41] <BeingMommyDragon> I bet you felt like a new man getting better sleep!!!

[01:42] <vilstef> And it wasn't a matter of coming fully awake, but the constant wakings messed up the REM cycle something fierce

[01:42] <vilstef> Yes, it was a great improvement.

[01:44] <vilstef> My wife no longer complains about me snoring-maybe I should complain about hers, she could probably use one of the machines too.

[01:44] <BeingMommyDragon> Yes, well talking about sleep, I really need some. I"m sorry to leave you awake, borred, wanting a conversation, and alone.

[01:45] <vilstef> I'll do ok.

[01:45] <BeingMommyDragon> Nice chatting with you

[01:45] * BeingMommyDragon is now known as Flying_away

[01:45] <vilstef> Get some sleep. I'm glad you had such a gread day

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[08:12] <Nick_Danger> happy birthday fred

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