Chat Log: Feburary 5th, 2011

[03:53] Akiraa has joined #knownspace
[10:01] #knownspace> sean:
[10:38] #knownspace> sean: .weather 40601
[10:38] #knownspace> Outsider: KeyError: 'geonames' (file "/home/logbot/phenny/modules/", line 38, in location)
[11:10] Merlin_McCarley has joined #knownspace
[11:16] #knownspace> Xenovalent: Outsider seems to have a lot of breakages lately...
[11:17] #knownspace> Xenovalent: .weather KEYW
[11:17] #knownspace> Outsider: Clear ☼, 75.2℉ (24℃), 30.04in (1014mb), Gentle breeze 9kt (↑) - KEYW 15:53Z
[11:17] #knownspace> Xenovalent: .weather 33609
[11:17] #knownspace> Outsider: Overcast ☁, 71.6℉ (22℃), 30.01in (1013mb), Mist, Gentle breeze 10kt (↑) - KTPA, 16:08Z
[11:19] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: .weather 75071
[11:19] #knownspace> Outsider: No ICAO code found, sorry
[11:21] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: .weather KDAL
[11:21] #knownspace> Outsider: Clear ☼, 30.2℉ (-1℃), 29.89in (1009mb), Light breeze 4kt (↑) - KDAL 15:53Z
[11:22] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Hehe, God hates American Football ;)
[11:24] #knownspace> Xenovalent: Yup, only supposed to get up to upper 30s there tomorrow, too
[11:25] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Going to be melt refreeze for the next week as well. Kids only had school on monday.
[12:04] bandersnatch has joined #knownspace
[12:04] #knownspace> bandersnatch: who placed that itching power under my belly foot?
[12:07] #knownspace> Xenovalent: he likes to play pranks!
[12:09] #knownspace> bandersnatch: I'l put hot black holes in his He4 pool!
[13:34] #knownspace> Akiraa: there's this idea that black holes have no 'inside'
[13:36] Fred has joined #knownspace
[13:37] #knownspace> Akiraa: i.e. nothing ever crosses the event horizon, it just approaches it indefinitely
[13:38] #knownspace> Akiraa: from our perspective at least, no object has ever crossed over
[14:58] dmac44 has joined #knownspace
[14:59] #knownspace> dmac44: Hi guys.
[15:05] Hippy has joined #knownspace
[15:05] #knownspace> Hippy: Hello?
[15:06] #knownspace> Hippy: A fine thing when I have to use this apoplet
[15:06] #knownspace> Hippy: Sean, what has happened to the IRC server?
[15:06] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: I am having no probs.
[15:06] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: irc://
[15:07] #knownspace> Hippy: Is the server still
[15:07] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Nope, .net
[15:07] #knownspace> Hippy: .net! Thanks!!!
[15:07] #knownspace> Hippy: Be right back
[15:07] Fred has joined #knownspace
[15:08] CaptLychee has joined #knownspace
[15:08] #knownspace> CaptLychee: Ah. ..
[15:08] #knownspace> CaptLychee: Good to be back
[15:08] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: It's good to be the king.
[15:09] #knownspace> Hippy: Has anyone read 'Stars and Gods'?
[15:09] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Partly, another compilation that I have most of elsewhere.
[15:09] #knownspace> Hippy: Me, too, but there's a lways the introductions
[15:10] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Aye, tis the only reason that I will buy it eventually.
[15:10] #knownspace> Hippy: And that IRS story - about the Gathereres - was very good
[15:10] Fred9 has joined #knownspace
[15:10] #knownspace> Hippy: G'day Fred
[15:11] #knownspace> Fred9: HIppy
[15:11] Larry has joined #knownspace
[15:11] #knownspace> Fred9: sh
[15:11] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: G'day Larry.
[15:11] #knownspace> dmac44: Hi Larry
[15:11] #knownspace> Fred9: sigh
[15:11] #knownspace> Hippy: Good afternoon, Larry
[15:11] #knownspace> Fred9: Hi Larry!
[15:11] #knownspace> Larry: Hello all.
[15:12] #knownspace> Larry: That was an easy connect.
[15:12] #knownspace> Hippy: Once you found the new server name :)
[15:12] #knownspace> Larry: Maybe I did. What is it?
[15:13] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: irc://
[15:13] #knownspace> Hippy: I have to say that I'm loving 'Stars and Gods'
[15:13] #knownspace> Larry: How is everybody's health and lifestyle?
[15:14] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Tired of being snowed in.
[15:14] #knownspace> Hippy: My eyes are now back to where I can use IRC, so that's good
[15:14] #knownspace> Larry: Stars and Gods is my near-current status report. Glad you like it, Hippy.
[15:14] #knownspace> Hippy: There's a huge glowing orb in the sky whch we haven't seen for days in the Antipodes
[15:15] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Same here in North Texas.
[15:15] #knownspace> Hippy: I LOVED the tax collector story!
[15:15] #knownspace> Larry: Watch out for that glowing orb. Unsupervised fusion reactor.
[15:16] #knownspace> Larry: The tax collector thing is the best conspiracy I've ever come up with. Fearfully plausible.
[15:16] #knownspace> Hippy: Woirse, there's a giant light sail coming in from beyond Neptune (usede to bey 'beyond Pluto' but we don't say that anymore)
[15:17] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, it is. I worked in the Australian Taxation Office for 19 years and. . .well, Big Brother's got nothing on us
[15:18] #knownspace> Hippy: ONe word about Tax and everyone goes silent?
[15:19] #knownspace> Hippy: That's what I call Power
[15:19] #knownspace> Hippy: Mwahahaha!!
[15:19] #knownspace> Larry: An old friend, Mike Glyer, is a tax man. I should get him talking.
[15:19] #knownspace> Hippy: No, they'd have to kill him
[15:20] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Friend of mine used to work IT at an IRS office. Said they were quite insane.
[15:21] #knownspace> Hippy: It'll be that garnetine or whatever it was called
[15:22] #knownspace> Hippy: What makes the conspiracy work is that they're not conspiring for the sake of conspiring
[15:22] #knownspace> Hippy: You could foresee a bureaucratic war where they each try to take the other over
[15:23] #knownspace> Hippy: Starting with, say, the Treasury haing an overseeing role that becomes a kind of Thought Police
[15:24] #knownspace> Larry: I deduce Hippy's the only one who read the story.
[15:24] Jim has joined #knownspace
[15:25] #knownspace> dmac44: I haven't read it yet.
[15:25] #knownspace> Hippy: No, Jim will have
[15:25] #knownspace> Jim: hi
[15:25] #knownspace> Hippy: G'day, Jim
[15:25] #knownspace> Larry: Hi, Jim. Topic so far is IRS rules the USA.
[15:26] #knownspace> Jim: I have read all of the released "of Worlds" books.
[15:26] #knownspace> Larry: OK. Total will be 5.
[15:26] #knownspace> Jim: I am going to owe them about $2,000 this April 15
[15:27] #knownspace> dmac44: Larry, do you have a preference when it comes to writing? That is, do you prefer writing short stories or novels or does it depend on the story?
[15:27] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, the infectgion crossses the Pacifc. 70% of Austrlaians use accontants to do their tax and the Treasuere says that is too high. He really does want to turn us all into accountants
[15:28] #knownspace> Larry: These days I seem to be writing short stories and collaboration novels. Solo novels, I may have had my say.
[15:29] #knownspace> Hippy: One last Gil Hamilton to wrap it up?
[15:30] #knownspace> Larry: Gil the ARM stories are hard to write. I love them once I'm into them.
[15:30] #knownspace> Hippy: So do We
[15:31] nedry has joined #knownspace
[15:31] #knownspace> dmac44: Any more Man-Kzin books coming along?
[15:31] #knownspace> Larry: Hippy, I noticed years ago that Big Brother wanted us all to become accountants. They'd just come down hard on some fishermen who'd been avoiding that box.
[15:32] #knownspace> Larry: Man-Kzin War books will continue to appear.
[15:32] #knownspace> Jim: OK
[15:32] #knownspace> Jim: Mark is here
[15:33] #knownspace> Jim: Hi Mark
[15:33] #knownspace> Hippy: G'day, Mark
[15:34] #knownspace> Hippy: 'No governent ever reduces its need for revenue except by collapse' if I may borrow from Freeman Dyson
[15:35] #knownspace> Larry: I borrow from Freeman Dyson a lot.
[15:35] #knownspace> Jim: Is he still alive?
[15:35] #knownspace> nedry: hi guys
[15:35] #knownspace> nedry: hi hippy
[15:36] #knownspace> Hippy: G'day, Nedry
[15:37] #knownspace> Larry: Hello, Nedry
[15:37] #knownspace> Hippy: The taxation equivalent of a Dyson sphere. . .hmmm. . .
[15:38] #knownspace> Larry: When you grow without limit you get a Dyson sphere. When taxes grow without limit...everybody becomes property of the State. It's happened.
[15:38] #knownspace> Hippy: Now that's interesting
[15:39] #knownspace> Jim: I have been told that the IRS has not been able to capture more than about 17% of the GDP.
[15:39] #knownspace> Larry: Our childred are born into debt. The Founders could not have planned that.
[15:40] #knownspace> Larry: they did plan for "indentured servants", I think. We would have reached a point where we're out of debt.
[15:41] #knownspace> Akiraa: There is a book, "Schild's Ladder" by Greg Egan. Anyone read it?
[15:41] #knownspace> Jim: nope, tell us about it
[15:41] #knownspace> Hippy: Except that you keep importing debt because you have immigration and thus people to support whose parents haven't paid anything into the economy.
[15:41] #knownspace> Akiraa: Jim: was wondering if it's worth a read, the underlying concept is interesting
[15:42] #knownspace> Hippy: What's the underlyhing concept?
[15:42] #knownspace> Akiraa: collapse of vacuum energy to a lower level
[15:43] #knownspace> Akiraa: starting in one point, leading to a destruction of normal space, but spreading at the speed of light
[15:43] #knownspace> dmac44: like the big bang
[15:43] #knownspace> Akiraa: a FTL civilization may observe the phenomenon and still get away
[15:43] #knownspace> Jim: a new energy source
[15:44] #knownspace> Fred9: Am I the only one that would have bought that new vacuum cleaner if instead of calling it the "Dyson Ball" they'd called it the "Dyson Sphere"?
[15:44] #knownspace> dmac44: I think Greg Bedford suggested that idea in his last Galactic Center book.
[15:44] #knownspace> Akiraa: it releases supernova-like energy and possibly a new physical arrangement inside the bubble
[15:44] #knownspace> Akiraa: Fred9: would be nice, but they can't trademark 'Dyson sphere'
[15:45] #knownspace> Hippy: They were confusing it with a Dyson Shell
[15:45] #knownspace> Larry: Schild's Ladder sounds scary. I've stopped believing in FTL, some years ago.
[15:45] #knownspace> Hippy: What about a jeweller's called 'Ringworld'?
[15:46] #knownspace> dmac44: Larry, what made you stop believing in FTL?
[15:46] #knownspace> Larry: I can't copyright titles. There was a "Smoke Ring" novel involving a conspiracy re tobacco. Judy=Lynn Del Rey and I decided to keep my title anyway.
[15:47] #knownspace> Larry: Lightspeed doesn't seem to be a speed thing. It's a geometry thing.
[15:47] #knownspace> Hippy: 'Smoke Ring' is too poetic to lose
[15:49] #knownspace> Jim: Larry: I don't understand what you said about light speed.
[15:49] #knownspace> Hippy: Come to think of it, 'INtegral Trees' ended up in the air. Kendy should at least be able to kidnap some Smoke Ringers and take them back to Earth
[15:52] #knownspace> Akiraa: Jim: FTL travel would involve a manipulation of the topology of space(-time), speeds would never be greater than c in the local topology
[15:52] #knownspace> Jim: Hippy: I think you mean low-earth orbit. Smoke Ringers would die in one gee.
[15:52] #knownspace> Akiraa: a 'mountain comes to Mohammed' thing
[15:54] #knownspace> Larry: I had ideas to continue The Smoke Ring story. They didn't pan out. When I looked again, I'd said everything I wanted said.
[15:54] #knownspace> Hippy: Most of them would, but there are those short, stocky ones that fit into old space suits. Plus they have a lot of the trip to get fit
[15:55] #knownspace> Larry: Why would I want to move Smoke Ringers to Earth? If I want to see, say, the advanced State, or the Boy-Girl war beginning, I'll start in the middle, as usual.
[15:55] #knownspace> Hippy: But then there's collaboratins, Larry. Isn't there still one Trojan point to explore?
[15:56] #knownspace> Hippy: Ywah, good point.
[15:56] #knownspace> Larry: I expect the Clumps are similar, though one unoccupied. I thought to involve the region around Voy.
[15:56] #knownspace> Hippy: Smoke Ringers aren't going to add anything to the advanced, or even decadent, State that Kendy couldn't do on his own
[15:57] #knownspace> Hippy: Ooh. . .that would be in vacuum, wouldn't it?
[15:58] #knownspace> Hippy: And the glowing orb in the sky has been covered by cloud
[16:00] #knownspace> Hippy: Awesome, isn't it?
[16:00] #knownspace> Hippy: Takes everyone's breath away?
[16:02] #knownspace> Larry: It's a bright sunny day. I should be hiking.
[16:02] #knownspace> Akiraa: What's the most promising sci-fi of 2011 (film or series)?
[16:02] #knownspace> Hippy: It's shaping up to be cold (for summer) and wet again today
[16:04] #knownspace> dmac44: Hippy, did you get hit by that cyclone?
[16:05] #knownspace> Larry: Most promising SF film...yeah, I could use a tip. But I don't get to movies much.
[16:05] #knownspace> Hippy: We're getting the tail end of it down here in Victoria. The actual cyclone was 2000 miles North. And it looked pretty damn decvastating
[16:06] #knownspace> Hippy: But the Outback is getting rain and they're even warning about floods up there
[16:06] #knownspace> dmac44: That's what has been reported here in the States.
[16:06] #knownspace> Hippy: It's just flooding from rain and then swollen rivers down here. No wind
[16:07] #knownspace> Hippy: Some people you feel sorry for, but some are just. .. who builds a fibro house with a tin roof in a bloody cyclone area???
[16:07] #knownspace> Hippy: You blokes have storm cellars when you live in a stormy area
[16:08] #knownspace> Hippy: Mind you, after ten years of drought, we could use the rain
[16:08] #knownspace> Akiraa: in the desert, rain is accompanied by flooding :)
[16:08] #knownspace> Jim: We very rarely get tornados, yet we have a basement.
[16:08] #knownspace> Akiraa: take that literally or metaphorically
[16:09] #knownspace> Hippy: Exactly! Forwrd thinking, you can't beat it!
[16:09] #knownspace> Hippy: Akiraa, that sounds very Zen
[16:09] #knownspace> Hippy: I mean the computer from 'Blake's 7'
[16:10] #knownspace> Jim: WTF
[16:10] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: What? Never heard of Blake's 7?
[16:11] #knownspace> Hippy: Egad
[16:11] #knownspace> Jim: I have heard of Blake's 7, but have never seen the series
[16:11] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: AKA - ABBA in space :P
[16:11] #knownspace> Hippy: LOL!!!
[16:11] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: :)
[16:11] #knownspace> Hippy: I must pass that on
[16:12] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Oh that is an OLD joke.
[16:13] #knownspace> Hippy: Hmm. What's happened to Lensman? Not like him to miss a chat
[16:14] #knownspace> Jim: He probably had a Laser Ranger meeting.
[16:15] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, yeah. . .
[16:15] #knownspace> Hippy: So, who's going to Reno for the WorldCon?
[16:15] #knownspace> Jim: LR being his supper & movie club.
[16:15] #knownspace> Jim: Where is Worldcon?
[16:15] #knownspace> Hippy: Reno NV
[16:16] #knownspace> Jim: When
[16:16] #knownspace> Hippy: August. . .sometime in August
[16:16] #knownspace> Larry: We'll be at Reno. It's close enough to drive.
[16:16] #knownspace> Hippy: Woo hoo!!
[16:16] #knownspace> Hippy: Then I must deinitely attned!
[16:16] #knownspace> Hippy: I can lord my fabulous currency over you all
[16:17] #knownspace> Jim: If I am in the area (big If), then I will make it out there.
[16:17] #knownspace> Larry: Long trip for you, Hippy. Exactly where are you?
[16:17] #knownspace> dmac44: Go to it and then stay over for Burning Man. :)
[16:17] #knownspace> nedry: i'd never seen Starship Troopers before.
[16:17] #knownspace> Hippy: I'm in Ballarat, 60 miles NorthWest of Melbourne
[16:17] #knownspace> nedry: This is really, really bad.
[16:18] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, Heinlein is turning in his grave
[16:18] #knownspace> Xenovalent: nedry: Just remember that the script started as "Bug Hunt at Outpost Nine", and they didn't change much beyond character names when they got the rights to the title.
[16:19] #knownspace> Hippy: What is 'Burning Man'? Something with Edward Woodward?
[16:19] #knownspace> nedry: I'm not a Heinlein fan... but this is offensive.
[16:19] #knownspace> Jim: I applied for two tenure-track jobs in California, so there is a very slight chance that I can make it.
[16:19] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Topless shower scenes?
[16:19] #knownspace> dmac44:
[16:19] #knownspace> nedry: I like how it's a one world government, and folks are from all over, but everyone is American
[16:19] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Ick.
[16:19] #knownspace> nedry: even people from Brazil are really from Iowa
[16:19] #knownspace> Jim: Burning Man is the place to be for all North American hippies.
[16:20] #knownspace> dmac44: Not really a hippy thing IMHO
[16:20] #knownspace> Hippy: Well. . .er. . .don't let the nickname fool you :)
[16:20] #knownspace> Jim: What do you mean?
[16:20] #knownspace> Hippy: That I'm not a hippie (your spelling)
[16:20] #knownspace> dmac44: Much broader and interesting
[16:21] #knownspace> Jim: Cartman sicced Chuluthu on Burning Man one year.
[16:21] #knownspace> Hippy: If I can drag myself off the roulette for long enough
[16:21] #knownspace> nedry: hippies can be annoying at times.
[16:22] #knownspace> Hippy: And they don't read much Niven
[16:22] #knownspace> nedry: the guy i know who runs the doon of may project does
[16:22] #knownspace> Larry: It's my lunchtime. Fare you well.
[16:22] #knownspace> dmac44: Bye Larry.
[16:22] #knownspace> nedry: but he's a physicist
[16:22] #knownspace> Jim: bye Larry
[16:22] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Methinks they read to much Hubbard, judging by Hollyweird today.
[16:22] #knownspace> Hippy: "Bye, Larry
[16:22] #knownspace> nedry: bye larry
[16:23] #knownspace> Hippy: See you in Reno, I hope
[16:23] #knownspace> nedry: wasn't there a tv show with McClaine Stevenson called "hello larry"?
[16:23] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Yes
[16:24] #knownspace> nedry: ah. i have some vauge memory of it from my childhood. my mother would watch anything that had something todo with MASH
[16:24] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Also had Kim Richards in it.
[16:24] #knownspace> nedry: i don't remember her.
[16:24] #knownspace> nedry: sigh. I have to go take my wife some money. and she's the *organized* one.
[16:25] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Escape to Witch Mountain (the original), and Paris Hilton's aunt.
[16:25] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, no doubt we'll be here upon your return
[16:25] #knownspace> nedry: (;
[16:25] #knownspace> Hippy: Has Brenda Cooper ever been on here?
[16:26] #knownspace> nedry: there was escape from witch mountain, and then there was the movie with the Cat in it. The Space Cat with some sort of power collar. Why am I thinking of this?
[16:26] #knownspace> Jim: I don't think so.
[16:26] #knownspace> Hippy: I ask because Ed Lerner has been on lots of times and it would be intereesting to talk to another collaborator
[16:26] #knownspace> Jim: Will Ed be here?
[16:26] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Not related, but yes I remember the film. Sandy Duncan was in that one.
[16:27] #knownspace> Hippy: Thomasina? Was that the Space Cat one?
[16:27] #knownspace> Hippy: Jim: not sure, but he used to drop in a fiair bit
[16:27] #knownspace> Hippy: When a new 'Worlds' book came out
[16:27] #knownspace> Hippy: I can confess now to not having read any of them
[16:27] #knownspace> Hippy: But they're on the list
[16:29] #knownspace> dmac44: I missed the January 1st chat. Was Betrayer discussed?
[16:29] #knownspace> Jim: the chat was on Jan 8th, 2011
[16:29] #knownspace> Hippy: I could barely type on January 1st
[16:29] #knownspace> dmac44: We'll I missed that one too.
[16:30] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: I came on the first then forgot about the one on the eighth.
[16:32] NickE has joined #knownspace
[16:32] #knownspace> Jim: Nick
[16:33] #knownspace> Hippy: G'day, Nick
[16:33] #knownspace> NickE: Yo
[16:33] #knownspace> NickE: Just popping in for a spell
[16:33] #knownspace> Hippy: You've just missed Larry
[16:33] #knownspace> NickE: ah Futz
[16:33] #knownspace> NickE: never mind
[16:35] #knownspace> Hippy: Sun's out again
[16:35] #knownspace> Hippy: Don't you all love these local weather reports?
[16:36] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: You broke it.
[16:36] #knownspace> Hippy: LOL!!!
[16:39] #knownspace> NickE: mostly windy here (UK)
[16:40] #knownspace> sean: totally forgot about this today... and I sent out the chat notice!!
[16:40] #knownspace> NickE: hi matey
[16:40] #knownspace> Hippy: G'day, Sean
[16:40] #knownspace> Jim: Hi SeanS
[16:42] #knownspace> NickE: Getting some decent TV for a change in the UK
[16:42] #knownspace> SeanS: what's the topic?
[16:42] #knownspace> Hippy: 'Betrayer of Worlds'
[16:42] #knownspace> NickE: dunno yet :-)
[16:43] #knownspace> NickE: Still not got it - Birthday soon
[16:43] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: So what is decent on the telle Nick?
[16:43] #knownspace> Hippy: It's all sport down here. '13 channels of shit on the TV to choose from' as Pink Floyd said
[16:43] #knownspace> SeanS: my birthday is in novemeber. I am forbidden to buy them
[16:43] #knownspace> NickE: Bit slow on th reading front lately
[16:43] #knownspace> NickE: heh
[16:44] #knownspace> Hippy: I was saying before that I hadn't read any of them
[16:44] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Aye, Superbowl nonsense. Means a marathon of something on my PC.
[16:44] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Blake's 7 perhaps.
[16:44] #knownspace> NickE: Well, Primeval just finished it's 4t series, with the 5th due later this year. Not bad. Not great, but entertaining and with decent CGI creatures and the occassional big twist
[16:45] #knownspace> Fred9: The Cat From Outer Spcea
[16:45] #knownspace> NickE: Being Human is into it's 3rd series. Excellent stuff
[16:45] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Not as good as the earlier series imo. Seems like they lost some of the better writers.
[16:45] #knownspace> Hippy: Thanks, Fred
[16:45] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: And gained Dr. Vashire ;)
[16:45] #knownspace> SeanS: I have copies of the cat from outer space and the navigator ;)
[16:45] #knownspace> NickE: Hustle has started again (kind of the projeno=itor of Leverage but without explosions)
[16:46] #knownspace> Hippy: Er. ..has there been a third series of 'Survivors'?
[16:46] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Grabbing Primeval s4e7 now. Thanks for the riminder.
[16:47] #knownspace> NickE: New thing called Outcasts starting shortly, looks interesting (human colonists of eEarth type world)
[16:47] #knownspace> Fred9: Thomasina is the 'reincarnated' cat
[16:47] #knownspace> Fred9: keeps getting hit on the head and getting amnesia and finding a new life
[16:47] #knownspace> NickE: Eww. Survivoirs was shit. Only the original 70's was worth watching
[16:48] #knownspace> Fred9: IIRC all of her various owners get together and form a family
[16:48] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, there I must disagree
[16:48] #knownspace> SeanS: .weather 40601
[16:48] #knownspace> Outsider: Overcast ☁, 33.8℉ (1℃), 29.76in (1004mb), Moderate breeze 14kt (↑) - KLOU 20:53Z
[16:48] #knownspace> NickE: Well, it bore little resemblance to teh original inaanything other than name
[16:48] #knownspace> Fred9: Survivors is on Netflix Instant. I have it queued up by haven't sampled it yet.
[16:49] #knownspace> NickE: They should have named it something else. I hated it.
[16:49] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, it was closer to Terry Nation's original idea
[16:49] #knownspace> Hippy: Good one, Sean. That's handy to have
[16:49] #knownspace> Hippy: .weather 3350
[16:49] #knownspace> NickE: Maybe so, but I lost interest rapidly in the first series
[16:49] #knownspace> NickE: YMMV of course
[16:49] #knownspace> Outsider: EBST: no such ICAO code, or no NOAA data
[16:50] #knownspace> Hippy: I suspected that would happen
[16:50] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Why oh why did they have to do a remake of Being Human, when the show is still running no less?
[16:50] #knownspace> Hippy: NickE: well, yes, I can see that thtt would happen
[16:50] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: I like not the American/Canadian version.
[16:51] Jim has joined #knownspace
[16:51] #knownspace> Hippy: There's always the hope that someone will do another 'All In The Family' or some other Americanisation of a British show
[16:51] #knownspace> Hippy: Plus, there's the compulsion to reshape it for 'American conditions'
[16:51] #knownspace> Fred9: same reason they want to do an American version of Torchwood
[16:52] #knownspace> NickE: Mad. I just don't get why they have to reamke shows to be "American" or "British" , good TV is good TV
[16:52] #knownspace> NickE: yuck
[16:52] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, we get them both here and you're right
[16:52] #knownspace> Akiraa: Brits speak a different language as far as Americans are concerned
[16:52] #knownspace> Fred9: yep
[16:52] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Not to me.
[16:52] #knownspace> NickE: Well, Children of earth was pretty watchable, but the rest was disappointing IMO
[16:53] #knownspace> Hippy: Now, touching lightly on these bit torrents. . .
[16:53] #knownspace> Hippy: Has anyone, anywhere, got '1990' with Edward Woodeard?
[16:53] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Though I do like the new analyst chick on Primeval.
[16:54] #knownspace> NickE: I mean, you lot get Python don't you. It's quoted on teh list often enough, how British can you get, but it goes down a storm
[16:54] #knownspace> Hippy: I had it, burnt it to DVD, but then it vanished from both DVD and hard drive
[16:54] #knownspace> NickE: (maybe that's just SF fans?)
[16:55] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Most of what I watch is UK based. Most of the tripe done in the US is just unwatchable to me now.
[16:55] #knownspace> NickE: (getting Python I mean. Never known fen not to get Python references)
[16:55] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, it's only a perception that American's can't understand British. Jane Leeves did whatever years of 'Frasier' with a Yorkshire accent
[16:55] #knownspace> NickE: (well sort of :-)
[16:56] #knownspace> SeanS: I like Brit TV. I watch Who and Sarah Jane within hours of them airing.
[16:56] #knownspace> Hippy: A Humberside accent, then
[16:56] #knownspace> SeanS: Haven't gotten in to Torchwood
[16:56] #knownspace> Hippy: I still can't believe 'The IT Crowd' didn't do well but 'The Office' did
[16:56] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Now I have heard some people that drop consonants and the occasional vowel to the point of almost being uncomphrensible, but that is just a youth culture and not only in the UK or US.
[16:57] #knownspace> SeanS: LOVED the IT Crowd
[16:57] #knownspace> NickE: I had great hopes for it and was disappointed
[16:57] #knownspace> NickE: IT crowd rocks
[16:57] #knownspace> bandersnatch: "you lot get Python don't you" : with a different cultural background this will "mean" something different. American culture is not introspective or open to ones own absurdities. That is absolutely british.
[16:57] #knownspace> Akiraa: Speaking of British film, watch 'The invention of lying' by Ricky Gervais...
[16:57] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: IT crowd is a winner. Thank goodness they did not go ahead with the American version.
[16:57] #knownspace> SeanS: Seen pieces of Invention of Lying. not the whole thing yet
[16:57] #knownspace> Fred9: I have primeveal on netflix unwatched too. Whoever ran it - BBCA? - seemed to run it at random, and it clearly needs to be seen in order
[16:58] #knownspace> Hippy: 'Invention of Lying' is good
[16:58] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Last week Lucy Brown made a reaperance. Rowwwwwl.
[16:58] #knownspace> Hippy: Ch'rowl
[16:59] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Aye :P
[16:59] #knownspace> NickE: (OKthe "you lot" ref was a biased comment based on teh fact that many listers are from teh US - I guess I meant Niven fans from all over)
[16:59] #knownspace> NickE: Claudia Brown ,please. Only called Jenny in that alternative universe :-)
[16:59] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Er.... Lucy Brown is the Actress' name.
[17:00] #knownspace> NickE: and yes, mmmmm :-)#
[17:00] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Yummo!
[17:00] #knownspace> NickE: oops. Yes it is.
[17:00] #knownspace> NickE: (bloody netbook making my typing even worse than usual!)
[17:00] #knownspace> Hippy: This is terribly seixst. Women are not atrratiive, they're people too :)
[17:01] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Then you look at Paris Hilton and rethink.
[17:01] #knownspace> NickE: I want more of teh whole Claudia/Jenny alternatives story cos it's *interesting*
[17:01] #knownspace> NickE: honest
[17:01] #knownspace> Hippy: LOL
[17:02] #knownspace> NickE: Well it is actually... the latest developments caught me offguard too (not Claudia/Jenny related th9ough)
[17:03] #knownspace> Hippy: I confess to not having seen the show. I don't even know if it's been out here
[17:03] #knownspace> Hippy: But the DVDs are you. Hmmm. . .
[17:03] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Humm, not sure about Aussie airings of it.
[17:04] #knownspace> NickE: Anyway, with Leverage and Warehouse 13 not showing over here lately, we're back to relying on UK shows and luckily for a change, they are delivering
[17:04] #knownspace> Akiraa: netbooks discriminate against people with thick fingers
[17:04] #knownspace> NickE: and bad typing :-)
[17:04] #knownspace> NickE: and bad typing :-)#
[17:04] #knownspace> NickE: see
[17:04] #knownspace> Akiraa: the 'gorilla hand' problem
[17:04] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Fringe is getting interesting again. Quite like that.
[17:05] #knownspace> NickE: I love it as a gadget, but it's not built for fast chat like this
[17:05] #knownspace> NickE: Not seen that yet. Heard good things#
[17:06] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: 3 years in, you have some catching up to do.
[17:07] #knownspace> NickE: 3 years. Wow. Didn't realise it had been going that long. Hmm. may have to check out bargin box sets
[17:08] #knownspace> NickE: Then again, got the complete Charlie Jade and haveyet to make it past the first episode - probably need to be in right frame of mind
[17:08] #knownspace> NickE: Reliably informed it's woth the effort
[17:08] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Yeah, that one develops pretty slow.
[17:09] #knownspace> Hippy: Ooh, I didn't like Charlie Jade
[17:10] #knownspace> Hippy: Notwithstanding the eye candy
[17:10] #knownspace> NickE: Slow is OK - to a point - several relatively recent US series lost my interest because of teh slow development. 22 eps pers season isn't wa
[17:10] #knownspace> NickE: isnt always a good thing
[17:11] #knownspace> NickE: Then again, teh original Survivors was very slow, but all teh more realistic because of it (and it was well written and acted which helps)
[17:11] #knownspace> Hippy: Charlie Jade suffers from a lack of writing. They needed more writers to write more
[17:11] #knownspace> NickE: well, I'll get to it at some point
[17:12] #knownspace> SeanS: I had kinda forgotten about the IT Crowd after the second season. Just saw where I am 2 seasons behind. Will pull them tomorrow during the super bowl and have a nice treat to enjoy Monday.
[17:12] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: True, but the 6 ep. arcs in the UK are sometimes just not enough to get them good press in the American market. Sad dichotomy.
[17:12] #knownspace> Hippy: Have you seen the original 'Survivors' recently, though? I had no fond memories of it as a child, not having seen it then, so I could look at it with an unbiased eye
[17:12] #knownspace> NickE: Aye. And TBH, 6 eps is almost not enough to really6 get into something even if the pace is high
[17:13] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Rewatching old shows from my youth has been a mixed expierence. Some of it holds up, others make me think I was on something to be watching it.
[17:13] #knownspace> Hippy: Is the Superbowl tomorrow? Isn't that about a fortnight late?
[17:13] #knownspace> SeanS: tomorrow yes
[17:14] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Not late at all. Weather permiting :)
[17:14] #knownspace> NickE: Not that recently. I take the point that my own viewing tastes have probably changed over the years
[17:14] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, such as 'What the hell did I see in Buck Rogers'?'
[17:14] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: But I won't be watching.
[17:14] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Er... Erin, just Erin.
[17:14] #knownspace> SeanS: I will be. Steelers fan here.
[17:15] #knownspace> NickE: ummm and we're back to the objecytifying againb....guilty too :-)#
[17:15] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, who are playing the Steelers?
[17:15] #knownspace> SeanS: Packers
[17:15] #knownspace> NickE: Packers damn beat me too it]
[17:15] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, go Pittsburgh!
[17:15] #knownspace> NickE: may even watch it for the first time in ages
[17:15] #knownspace> SeanS: I think will be an extrememly close game
[17:15] #knownspace> NickE: Liked the Steelers back when I watched
[17:16] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Just to refresh your memory.
[17:16] #knownspace> SeanS: and that little conversation is a great demonstration of the world wide crowd that comes in here.
[17:17] #knownspace> SeanS: Merlin, I don't want to tempt myself. She is the reason people watched Buck Rogers
[17:17] #knownspace> dmac44: No, no, it was the great stories :)
[17:17] #knownspace> SeanS: heh
[17:17] #knownspace> NickE: uh huh
[17:18] #knownspace> SeanS: well actually, they were great when i first saw them but I was like 13. Lots of crap is great at that age
[17:18] #knownspace> NickE: Actually, the Princess was another bad naughty reason to watch :-)
[17:18] #knownspace> NickE: When I was 13 too :-)
[17:19] #knownspace> Hippy: I was 15 and yes, Erin was good
[17:19] #knownspace> SeanS: its nice to know that in the 25th Century people will still be dancing disco
[17:19] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Humm, similar age group in here as well eh? I just turned 43.
[17:19] #knownspace> Hippy: Of course, Mork and Mindy was on then, too
[17:19] #knownspace> SeanS: 42
[17:19] #knownspace> NickE: coming up on 47
[17:20] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Close enough.
[17:20] #knownspace> SeanS: the ultimate age... of life the universe and everything
[17:20] #knownspace> NickE: 42 was cool
[17:20] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Just passed it, it was rubbish for me.
[17:20] #knownspace> Hippy: I'll be 49 in March
[17:20] #knownspace> NickE: ah, but not in an alternative universe
[17:21] #knownspace> dmac44: not discussing the tempature outside or my age (which happen to be the same)
[17:21] #knownspace> dmac44: or my spelling
[17:21] #knownspace> SeanS: tempted to facebook message steven barnes and ask him to pop in
[17:21] #knownspace> Hippy: Good plan!
[17:22] #knownspace> SeanS: showing him online
[17:22] #knownspace> SeanS: larry or ed show up today?
[17:22] #knownspace> Hippy: Larry did at 12 or so (his time)
[17:24] #knownspace> SeanS: Larry has been fairly consistant coming in lately
[17:24] #knownspace> NickE: aye. Is good
[17:27] #knownspace> dmac44: I've got to get going. See you all next month.
[17:28] #knownspace> SeanS: sent a message to steven barnes
[17:29] #knownspace> SeanS: Was wondering if you would like to come into the Larry Niven list 1st Saturday chat. I saw you online and mentioned it and there were several people enthusiastic about it. If you would like to all you need to do is put in the location bar of your browser. a client will load off the server. key in a nickname and click a button and it will drop you in. Sean Sullivan
[17:29] #knownspace> SeanS: we will see
[17:30] #knownspace> SeanS: I don't usually message authors out of the blue but he has responded to my responses to his posts several times.
[17:33] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, it was a nicvely-worded invite
[17:34] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh! Bandersnatxh was Uwe Klein!
[17:35] #knownspace> Hippy: I'd thought it was one of your estimable bots
[17:35] #knownspace> SeanS: nope
[17:35] #knownspace> SeanS: the only two bots are knownspaceARM and Outsider
[17:36] #knownspace> SeanS: ARM logs the chats and Ousider is a phenny bot.
[17:36] #knownspace> Hippy: Ah. . .
[17:36] #knownspace> Hippy: Good name for a phenny bot. Nicely in context
[17:39] #knownspace> SeanS: phone
[17:39] #knownspace> Akiraa: uwe klein, not uwe boll, fortunately
[17:40] bandersnatch has joined #knownspace
[17:40] #knownspace> NickE: wb
[17:41] #knownspace> Jim: uwe!
[17:42] #knownspace> bandersnatch: where
[17:43] #knownspace> Hippy: What?
[17:45] #knownspace> SeanS: off phone
[17:46] #knownspace> bandersnatch: belerophone ?
[17:46] #knownspace> SeanS: message from steven barnes: Not today...but we can set something up for another time.
[17:47] #knownspace> NickE: taht would be cool
[17:47] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, looking forward to that
[17:47] #knownspace> bandersnatch: had some talk with dennis the nedry: does one talk to engineers ?
[17:48] #knownspace> SeanS: my message back to steven: Thank you, sir. I didn't see that you were about to see your daughter's play until after I posted the message.
[17:48] #knownspace> Hippy: One talks at engineers
[17:50] #knownspace> SeanS: If he pops in then that will be four authors who have come in. Larry, Ed, Brenda Cooper, and him
[17:50] #knownspace> Hippy: Use short words and don't gesture: it confuses them
[17:51] #knownspace> SeanS: heh
[17:51] #knownspace> SeanS: OK, I am outa stuff to read. Any suggestions?
[17:51] #knownspace> Hippy: ''
[17:52] #knownspace> Hippy: Oops
[17:52] #knownspace> Hippy: 'Stars and Gods'!
[17:52] #knownspace> NickE: Plus a couple of listers at least have been published
[17:52] #knownspace> Hippy: Who?
[17:53] #knownspace> NickE: DAnn Hollifiels I think. JAS too I believe (tho he's not been im here for ages)
[17:53] #knownspace> NickE: Sure there's a couple of others
[17:53] #knownspace> Hippy: Is that Dan from Georgia?
[17:53] #knownspace> SeanS: Dan has published but it is with a buy it and they will print it company
[17:53] #knownspace> SeanS: yes
[17:54] #knownspace> NickE: Dan Hollifield yeas
[17:54] #knownspace> NickE: ah
[17:54] #knownspace> NickE: still
[17:54] #knownspace> Hippy: Excellent! Will have to check that out
[17:54] #knownspace> SeanS: not saying anything bad about Dan (a good friend). It is an excellent foot in the door kinda thing
[17:54] #knownspace> NickE: he's been in the online fiction game for a good while
[17:55] #knownspace> SeanS: yeah, he runs Aphelion Webzine
[17:55] #knownspace> NickE: I've liked what I've read
[17:55] #knownspace> SeanS: big steampunk fan
[17:55] #knownspace> SeanS: he and his wife Lyn both
[17:57] #knownspace> NickE: brb
[17:57] #knownspace> SeanS: k
[17:59] #knownspace> Akiraa: so Larry no longer believes in FTL
[17:59] #knownspace> Akiraa: would this mean new novels set in relativistic space?
[18:00] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, it might mean less 'Known Space' ones
[18:00] #knownspace> Hippy: But 'The State' is set in relativistic space
[18:01] #knownspace> SeanS: He no longer believes in FTL?
[18:01] #knownspace> Akiraa: quote from above
[18:01] #knownspace> Hippy: So he said earlier
[18:01] #knownspace> SeanS: ah
[18:01] #knownspace> SeanS: I was not here
[18:01] #knownspace> Akiraa: <Larry> Schild's Ladder sounds scary. I've stopped believing in FTL, some years ago.
[18:01] #knownspace> SeanS: A lot of my favorites are his NAFAL stories
[18:02] #knownspace> Akiraa: nafal?
[18:02] #knownspace> SeanS: Not As Fast As Light
[18:02] #knownspace> Akiraa: what's that about?
[18:02] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, 'Flare Time' still kicks arse
[18:03] #knownspace> Jim: gotta go
[18:03] #knownspace> Jim: bye
[18:03] #knownspace> Hippy: And there's room for a third 'Legacy of Heorot' novel
[18:04] #knownspace> SeanS: actually you can call Destiny's Road the third Heorot novel
[18:04] #knownspace> Hippy: JIm's rapid exit makes me think about greetings and goodbyes in a 'Flash Crowd' universe. No lengthy goodbyes as you board your plane or even start your car. Just 'blink' and you're gone
[18:05] #knownspace> Hippy: You can, too. Okay, a fourth one
[18:05] #knownspace> SeanS: heh
[18:05] #knownspace> SeanS: Road mentions the heorot colony
[18:05] #knownspace> Hippy: Or a 2.5th one, set in between the second and third ones
[18:05] #knownspace> Akiraa: What are some NAFAL stories or novels?
[18:05] #knownspace> SeanS: says they lost contact if with the heorot colony if memory serves
[18:06] #knownspace> SeanS: protector
[18:06] #knownspace> SeanS: coldest place
[18:06] #knownspace> Hippy: A Gift from Earth
[18:06] #knownspace> SeanS: wait it out
[18:06] #knownspace> Akiraa: building harlequinn's moon? that's on my reading list
[18:06] #knownspace> SeanS: i couldnt get into BHM
[18:06] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: All of Gill Hamelton then.
[18:07] #knownspace> SeanS: all the draco taverns
[18:07] #knownspace> NickE: I should re-read it
[18:07] #knownspace> Hippy: No, Draco Tavern has FTL
[18:07] #knownspace> SeanS: nope
[18:07] #knownspace> NickE: didn't quite do it for me first time
[18:07] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, how do the Chirps get around?
[18:08] #knownspace> NickE: Brenda was cooll though (had luch with her at WordCon 2005)
[18:08] #knownspace> SeanS: to quote my favorite draco tavern 'I have spent most of my life at the edge of lightspeed under relativistic time compression so I am not nearly so old as all that
[18:08] #knownspace> NickE: WorldCon
[18:08] #knownspace> SeanS: '
[18:08] #knownspace> SeanS: close enough anyway
[18:09] #knownspace> NickE: Hmm come top think of it, yeah, no FTL in DT stuff I don't think
[18:09] #knownspace> SeanS: and sold videos of my travels to fund my wanderlust
[18:09] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, but that was her choice to do. Surely the modern Chirps have FTL?
[18:09] #knownspace> Hippy: No FTL in the Warlock stories, either :)
[18:09] #knownspace> SeanS: very sure tavern is STL
[18:10] #knownspace> Hippy: This will require some reading on my part
[18:10] #knownspace> SeanS: they tap something like dark energy to get up close to light speed but dont think they can break the limit
[18:11] #knownspace> SeanS: ok, your assignment, if you choose to accept it, is to read the book the draco tavern and definitvely say yea or nay. This keyboard will self destruct in 5 seconds
[18:11] #knownspace> Hippy: This is where you need Niven for the Kindle
[18:11] #knownspace> SeanS: the bar story with the monks is STL
[18:12] #knownspace> Hippy: Fourth Profession
[18:12] #knownspace> SeanS: fourth pro
[18:12] #knownspace> bandersnatch: FP: one of my fovorites
[18:12] #knownspace> Hippy: All the Leshy Circuit stories
[18:13] #knownspace> Hippy: A World Out of Time only works if you have relativistic travel
[18:14] #knownspace> SeanS: all the man-kzin war stories before the outsiders show up. includes The Childrens Hour
[18:14] #knownspace> SeanS: bio
[18:14] #knownspace> Hippy: The Svetz stories are probably FTL, since the Time INsitute has to compete with exotic animals from other planets
[18:14] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Well Svetz is supposed to be comedy Sci-Fi.
[18:15] #knownspace> Hippy: True
[18:15] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: The machine is a fantasy generator, not a time machine.
[18:15] #knownspace> Hippy: That's ann interesting slant on it
[18:16] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Tis close to what he said himself. Larry did not believe in Time Travel and it shows in those stories. Very Different than William Proxmire.
[18:17] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes! Good point
[18:17] #knownspace> Hippy: But 'fantasy generator' is an interesting idea
[18:18] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Well, certain literary liberties. But yes I suppose I have not heard it put quite exactly that way before.
[18:18] #knownspace> Hippy: For example, if you generate fantasy, do you use up reality to do it?
[18:18] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Now you are venturing into The Magic Goes Away teritory.
[18:19] #knownspace> Hippy: Yeah. . .
[18:20] #knownspace> SeanS: fantasy generator cant be much different from the infinite improbability drive
[18:21] #knownspace> NickE: quite
[18:21] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes. You couldn't make a fantasy generator out of thin air, until you turn it on and it generates enough fantasy to generate it out of thin air. Hmm. . .
[18:21] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Douglas Adams (Long Dark Teatime of the Soul) and Terry Pratchett (Hogfather) have both tackled the idea that belief generates reality. Intresting concept coming from a couple of athiest ;)
[18:22] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Hehe, how Infinantly Improbbale then.
[18:22] #knownspace> SeanS: a moment of silence for the great Douglas Adams
[18:23] #knownspace> NickE: amen (not religious but hey)
[18:23] #knownspace> SeanS: I hope Terry is doing well. last I read he was diagnosed with a form of alzheimers
[18:23] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Yes
[18:23] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: quite sad.
[18:23] #knownspace> Hippy: Damn right
[18:23] #knownspace> NickE: Yeah, He called it an "embuggerance"
[18:23] #knownspace> SeanS: red lines be damned, I am not apologizing for horrible typing
[18:23] #knownspace> NickE: i like Pterry
[18:24] #knownspace> NickE: MEt him a coupl of times - not just at s a signing
[18:24] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Hehe, on a MUD based on Discworld as we speak.
[18:24] #knownspace> SeanS: heh
[18:24] #knownspace> NickE: Pterry has good taste in beer :-)
[18:25] #knownspace> SeanS: the only author I have met in person is Piers Anthony
[18:25] #knownspace> Hippy: I met Larry Niven in 1985
[18:25] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Only one I ever met was Douglas Adams at a signing in the early 90s.
[18:25] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Last Chance to See had just been published.
[18:25] #knownspace> SeanS: and that was in the waldenbooks i was working at in Ocala, Florida. He lives in that area or did at the time
[18:25] #knownspace> NickE: Would very much like to meet Larry (duh)
[18:26] #knownspace> NickE: Funnt, that's when I brifly met hi
[18:26] #knownspace> NickE: m
[18:27] #knownspace> NickE: he signed my Long Dark Teatime of the Sould in a pub before giving a talk with mArk Carwardine
[18:27] #knownspace> NickE: Very tall
[18:27] #knownspace> SeanS: I was supposed to meet Dan, Larry and Jerry, and a couple other listers at LibertyCon a few years ago. didnt work out at the last minute. :(
[18:27] #knownspace> Hippy: How frustrating
[18:27] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Ah, the best laid plans of mice.
[18:28] #knownspace> SeanS: was in chattanooga, Tennessee. only about 4.5 hours away from here
[18:28] #knownspace> NickE: me and Sean wree supposed to meet up ate Dragon Con last year, but RL conspired against us
[18:28] #knownspace> SeanS: real life?
[18:28] #knownspace> Hippy: How would you have got to Chattanooga?
[18:28] #knownspace> NickE: yep
[18:28] #knownspace> SeanS: straight down I-64. I am in frankfort, kentucky
[18:29] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Whatever real is. Its all just perception anyway.
[18:29] #knownspace> NickE: well quite
[18:29] #knownspace> NickE: :-)
[18:29] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes. I'm just compelled to ask because one day someone will say 'You leave the Pennsylvanaia Station at a quarter to four' but no-one ever has
[18:30] #knownspace> NickE: arse. Need to go to bed
[18:30] #knownspace> SeanS: was really looking forward to meeting Nick. Had a cell number and everything.
[18:30] #knownspace> SeanS: DragonCon is only 6 hours away
[18:31] #knownspace> SeanS: also straight down I-64
[18:31] #knownspace> NickE: We chatted, but Julie had just done something to het anklle (all better now i hope)
[18:31] #knownspace> NickE: bluudy hell I need to go to bed :-)#
[18:31] #knownspace> SeanS: yep... broke it. still twitches and some swelling but she is fine
[18:31] #knownspace> NickE: good;
[18:32] #knownspace> Hippy: I probably ought to make breakfast before lunchtime
[18:32] #knownspace> SeanS: yeah.. that dang 5 hour time difference
[18:32] #knownspace> NickE: no idea if/when I'll next manage it - still paying off the plastic!
[18:32] #knownspace> SeanS: Euan gets screwed thte most with that dang 16 or 17 hour time difference
[18:33] #knownspace> Hippy: 16 for me, 18 for him
[18:33] #knownspace> SeanS: still want you to wander me into some good brit pubs
[18:33] #knownspace> NickE: bummer
[18:33] #knownspace> NickE: I would love that
[18:33] #knownspace> NickE: I would love that#
[18:33] #knownspace> Hippy: We're both on Daylight Savings Time
[18:33] #knownspace> SeanS: i will get there
[18:33] #knownspace> NickE: I did send you those pics didn't I?
[18:33] #knownspace> SeanS: i need to figure out how to winter with Euan
[18:33] #knownspace> SeanS: yes
[18:34] #knownspace> NickE: cool
[18:34] #knownspace> SeanS: thanks
[18:34] #knownspace> SeanS: nice
[18:34] #knownspace> Hippy: I wonder how he did in the earthquake (which was, admittedly, six months ago)
[18:34] #knownspace> NickE: nothing qiute like getting comfortably pissed in a good pub with good company and good beer
[18:35] #knownspace> SeanS: I went to a brit pub in france but until i got to one in brit, how can i know if it was accurate
[18:35] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: And no damnable sports telle on.
[18:35] Dan has joined #knownspace
[18:35] #knownspace> NickE: trust me it wasnt :-)
[18:35] #knownspace> SeanS: there is dan
[18:35] #knownspace> NickE: Hey Dan!
[18:35] #knownspace> SeanS: get my facebook?
[18:35] #knownspace> NickE: Hey Dan!
[18:35] #knownspace> Hippy: G'day, Dan
[18:36] #knownspace> NickE: so much for going to bed ;-)
[18:36] #knownspace> Dan: Yeah, Sean. I just got back from a beer run ans your message was the first thing I saw.
[18:36] #knownspace> SeanS: heh
[18:36] #knownspace> NickE: and we were just talking about beer too :0)
[18:36] #knownspace> Hippy: What did you get?
[18:36] #knownspace> SeanS: what was the story that you had published?
[18:36] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Beer-sports telle=a good expierence.
[18:36] #knownspace> Dan: I'm still not used to thinking of myself as a pro writer. :)
[18:38] #knownspace> NickE: my kids love the whoel steampunk thing :-)
[18:38] #knownspace> Dan: I've got one 1000 word short story in "Flash Of Aphelion" over on the website. And I've sold another one for a collection that hasn't come out yet. It'll be out in mid-April from Immersion Press.
[18:38] #knownspace> NickE: rather like the aesthetic myself
[18:39] #knownspace> Dan: That 2nd story is 8000 words. That's what the publisher limited submissions to, so I maxed out my limit.
[18:39] #knownspace> NickE: Rush have apparently developed an interest - new album should be interesting
[18:39] #knownspace> SeanS: I havent read any steampunk but will at some point mainly due to Dan
[18:40] #knownspace> Dan: Lyn & I will be going to a steampunk convention in Atlanta in about 20 days.
[18:41] #knownspace> Hippy: I think I might nip over to and damage the plastic myself
[18:41] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Mental images of cosplayers dances through my mind.
[18:41] #knownspace> SeanS: I am sure Dan will thank you if you do ;)
[18:41] #knownspace> NickE: might be my first ebook purchase - might have to get a reader I guess :-)
[18:41] #knownspace> Dan:
[18:42] #knownspace> Hippy: Much obliged
[18:42] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Most formats are supported by a PC app of some nature.
[18:42] #knownspace> Dan: Hardback, paperback, and 2 different e-book formats.
[18:42] #knownspace> Hippy: .weather 32826
[18:42] #knownspace> Outsider: Overcast ☁, 62.6℉ (17℃), 29.95in (1011mb), Gentle breeze 10kt (↑) - KORL 22:53Z
[18:42] #knownspace> SeanS: I like e-books and a free program called yBook
[18:42] #knownspace> Dan: yBook is a great program!
[18:43] #knownspace> Hippy: I do like that bot
[18:43] #knownspace> SeanS: yes... thankyou Hal Spacejock
[18:43] #knownspace> NickE: hmm, wahts the deal with the actual dead tree version? It's not that much more than a download?
[18:43] #knownspace> Dan: .weather 30628
[18:43] #knownspace> Outsider: Clear ☼, 46.4℉ (8℃), 29.81in (1006mb), Moderate breeze 12kt (↑) - KAND 22:56Z
[18:43] #knownspace> Dan: I think that they're having a sale this month.
[18:43] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: .weather KDAL
[18:44] #knownspace> Outsider: Clear ☼, 48.2℉ (9℃), 29.80in (1006mb), Gentle breeze 8kt (↑) - KDAL 22:53Z
[18:44] #knownspace> NickE: shiny
[18:44] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Things are melting. Horray.
[18:44] #knownspace> SeanS: i will freeze you all out in a second
[18:44] #knownspace> SeanS: .weather 40601
[18:44] #knownspace> Outsider: Overcast ☁, 33.8℉ (1℃), 29.84in (1007mb), Gentle breeze 10kt (↑) - KLOU 22:53Z
[18:45] #knownspace> Dan: As I recall, the normal hardback price is $26, the paperback is $18, and the e-books are $9.99
[18:45] #knownspace> Hippy: What are those K's? Airport ID's?
[18:45] #knownspace> Hippy: .weather YBLT
[18:45] #knownspace> Outsider: No ICAO code found, sorry
[18:45] #knownspace> SeanS: i need to skype Euan and tell him to expect a visitor for the rest of my winter
[18:45] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh well, that didn't work
[18:45] #knownspace> SeanS: noaa station names i think
[18:46] #knownspace> Dan: The paperback is almost the same size/format as the hardback. Nearly 8.5x11.
[18:46] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: .weather YMML
[18:46] #knownspace> Outsider: Clear ☼, 14℃, 1022mb, Fresh breeze 19kt (↑) - YMML 23:30Z
[18:46] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: There ye go.
[18:46] #knownspace> SeanS: i love trade paperbacks
[18:47] #knownspace> Hippy: Thanks. Where's YMML?
[18:47] #knownspace> Dan: I'll have to check and see if any Niven Listers will be near London or Bristol when Lyn & I fly over in May.
[18:47] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Melbourne Airport
[18:48] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, cool!
[18:48] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley:
[18:48] #knownspace> Hippy: 14 C in February. Global Warming makes everything cooler
[18:49] #knownspace> Hippy: Not that I'm complaining. Last week was Hell on Earth
[18:49] #knownspace> Dan: We'll be staying with her sister-in-law in Portsmouth most of the time, but we want to go shopping, etc. in London at least one day, and we have friends in Bristol too.
[18:49] #knownspace> NickE: Pompey! Lived there for a while!
[18:50] #knownspace> Dan: Lyn is indeed a Pompey Girl!
[18:50] #knownspace> Hippy: And I'm hoping to be in Charleston, SC in April, but things here keep costing me money to fix
[18:50] #knownspace> NickE: Ah!
[18:50] #knownspace> NickE: And I lived in Bristol for a while
[18:50] #knownspace> NickE: (have family there)
[18:50] #knownspace> Dan: Cool!
[18:50] #knownspace> NickE: This is aching for a meetup
[18:50] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: .weather KDFW
[18:50] #knownspace> Outsider: Clear ☼, 53.6℉ (12℃), 29.78in (1005mb), Gentle breeze 7kt (↑) - KDFW 22:53Z
[18:51] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Humm, really?
[18:51] #knownspace> Dan: At least one Aphelion writer lives in Bristol, and we know Casebook: Jack the Ripper all over England.
[18:51] #knownspace> SeanS: fort worth?
[18:51] #knownspace> NickE: I'd drive down to Pompey for the day
[18:51] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: DFW airport. Closer to me than Love Field.
[18:51] #knownspace> Dan: How far would you have to drive?
[18:52] #knownspace> NickE: Email me nearer the time
[18:52] #knownspace> NickE: 2 and a bit hours
[18:52] #knownspace> NickE: easy drive
[18:52] #knownspace> SeanS: tis nothing
[18:52] #knownspace> Dan: The sis-in-law lives in Cosham, proper.
[18:52] #knownspace> NickE: used to do it a lot
[18:52] #knownspace> SeanS: dan is 7 hours from me and i have no problem with it... just have to find the time
[18:52] #knownspace> NickE: where my wife to be lived when we got together
[18:53] #knownspace> NickE: damn!
[18:53] #knownspace> NickE: Well, Portchester
[18:53] #knownspace> Dan: The steampunk con in Atlanta is 90 minutes from us, and the SF con in Chattanooga is 3 hours away.
[18:53] #knownspace> NickE: my somn want's to go to Portsmouth Uni (where I went)#
[18:53] #knownspace> NickE: son
[18:54] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, gnetlemen, it's rolling on to midnight GMT (Zulu or whatever it's called) so I shall bid you all a fond farewell
[18:54] #knownspace> Dan: Lyn says that's a good school.
[18:54] #knownspace> NickE: yep
[18:54] #knownspace> Dan: Goodnight, Hippy!
[18:54] #knownspace> NickE: nite
[18:54] #knownspace> Hippy: Goodnight, everyone
[18:54] #knownspace> NickE: nite#
[18:54] #knownspace> Hippy: Except 'Good morning' to Euan if he turns up
[18:55] #knownspace> NickE: crikey, it is indeed - Hippy must be UK basd or close
[18:55] #knownspace> Hippy: See you in March with my Draco Tavern FTL proof :)
[18:55] #knownspace> NickE: heh
[18:55] #knownspace> Hippy: Nope, NickE Melbourne
[18:55] #knownspace> Dan: LOL!
[18:55] #knownspace> NickE: ah
[18:55] #knownspace> Hippy: Or Ballarat, anyway
[18:55] #knownspace> Hippy: But tyranny of distance means I have to work out the times in other time zones
[18:56] #knownspace> Hippy: We should all be on GMT. That way I could have a midnight sun :)
[18:56] #knownspace> NickE: well, I was on teh sameplanet at least
[18:56] #knownspace> Hippy: That would be. . .the lightspeed delay to Mars is, what, two minutes? So if I were there my replies would be so slow
[18:57] #knownspace> Dan: I keep a time zone converter webpage bookmarked, but Lyn having family in England means that I've gotten good at looking at my clock and adding 5 hours. :)
[18:57] #knownspace> Hippy: Okay, ths is me properly leaving now
[18:58] #knownspace> NickE: I know some good pubs in Pompey
[18:58] #knownspace> Hippy: Not getting sidetracked
[18:58] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: +6 here, really easy conversion.
[18:58] #knownspace> NickE: nite/morning
[18:58] #knownspace> Dan: Bye, again!
[18:58] #knownspace> Hippy: 'Bye again
[18:58] #knownspace> NickE: ttfn
[18:58] #knownspace> Hippy: Must. . .type. . .exit
[18:59] #knownspace> NickE: oh i thought he'd never go :-)
[18:59] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Hehe, I almost said that.
[18:59] #knownspace> SeanS: heh
[18:59] #knownspace> Dan: I did order a box of the Aphelion paperbacks to try and sell at the 2 conventions we go to. I might be able to afford to buy a few copies of the 2nd book to sell at the July convention as well.
[18:59] #knownspace> NickE: It's late, I've had a drink...
[19:00] #knownspace> SeanS: you turning in Nick?
[19:00] #knownspace> NickE: I think so... been meaning to for the last hour or so ;0)
[19:00] #knownspace> NickE: really should
[19:01] #knownspace> SeanS:
[19:01] #knownspace> NickE: few things to do tomorrow
[19:01] #knownspace> Dan: Michael Z. Williamson is trying to get his publisher to go for a steampunk short story anthology, too. He invited me to submit a story to it if he manages to swing the deal.
[19:01] #knownspace> SeanS: great commercial but most have probably seen it
[19:02] #knownspace> SeanS: you can see my perfect girl by going to youtube and punching in Nerdy girls need love to. think that was posted on the list as well
[19:02] #knownspace> NickE: no. That was fuckin funny
[19:02] #knownspace> SeanS: the commercial?
[19:03] #knownspace> NickE: aye
[19:03] #knownspace> SeanS: yeah... i got a good laugh off of it
[19:04] #knownspace> SeanS: it is so dreary and winter desolate here that i had to put on radio margaritaville for a while
[19:06] #knownspace> Dan: We were watching a lot of YouTube last night. Lyn had never seen any of the old Dean Martin celebrity roasts, nor did she know who Johnnathan Winters was. :)
[19:07] #knownspace> Dan: There was even a Tonight Show clip with Winters & Robin Williams taking over the show. Carson just sat back and laughed his ass off.
[19:08] #knownspace> Dan: Oh, I grew up with that stuff. In fact, I watch Trek TOS from the very first broadcast.
[19:08] #knownspace> NickE: futz...time to go
[19:08] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Ok, I feel a touch younger now.
[19:08] #knownspace> NickE: heh
[19:09] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Was in negative numbers when TOS started ;)
[19:09] #knownspace> SeanS: as was I... born in 68
[19:09] #knownspace> NickE: Been a pleasure as always folks. Dan, email me, really when you are coming over
[19:09] #knownspace> Dan: I also watched Lost In Space from its first episode.
[19:09] #knownspace> Dan: Our flight arrives the morning of May 5th.
[19:10] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: Wow
[19:10] #knownspace> NickE: will try to have some time available around then
[19:10] #knownspace> Merlin_McCarley: I grew up in the age of syndication, with only 3 major TV stations.
[19:10] #knownspace> SeanS: just hope RL doesnt intrude
[19:10] #knownspace> NickE: (should be able to)
[19:10] #knownspace> NickE: well, yeah
[19:10] #knownspace> Dan: We'll stay until the 18th, that's our flight back.
[19:11] #knownspace> NickE: bluddy pain in the bum reality
[19:11] #knownspace> Dan: Indeed!
[19:11] #knownspace> NickE: OK, sounds doable
[19:12] #knownspace> NickE: night all, fare well
[19:12] #knownspace> SeanS: night Nick
[19:12] #knownspace> Dan: G'night, ZNick!
[19:13] #knownspace> Dan: I'll have to remember to get his e-mail in April.
[19:13] #knownspace> Dan: BRB, bio-break...
[19:15] #knownspace> Dan: Back...
[19:16] #knownspace> Dan: I was born in '57, so I remember TV from before there were 3 networks, LOL! ABC was the newcomer.
[19:17] #knownspace> SeanS: i have it
[19:17] #knownspace> SeanS: pretty sure
[19:17] #knownspace> SeanS: nick's email that is
[19:17] #knownspace> Dan: Well, if you send it right now it'll just get lost in my Inbox. :)
[19:18] #knownspace> SeanS: i hear ya. can send you his skype info
[19:18] bandersnatch has joined #knownspace
[19:18] #knownspace> Dan: I keep cleaning the thing out, but people keep filling it up.
[19:19] #knownspace> SeanS: looks like you have to be online for me to send skype info
[19:19] #knownspace> SeanS: anybody watch the amy music video?
[19:20] #knownspace> Dan: Got the sound off here, and Lyn is using most of our bandwidth atm.
[19:20] #knownspace> SeanS: gotcha
[19:20] #knownspace> SeanS: mark is pulling another battlestar ep.. 70's version
[19:21] #knownspace> Dan: Understood.
[19:21] #knownspace> SeanS: i asked him to be nice to me bandwidth wise
[19:22] #knownspace> SeanS: tis chat day
[19:22] #knownspace> SeanS: he about shut me down the other day. maxed my upload so page requests could hardly get out
[19:22] #knownspace> SeanS: butthead
[19:23] #knownspace> Dan: Damn, I forgot about the chat today. I was awake, and everything.
[19:23] #knownspace> SeanS: i did too. and i sent out the chat notice
[19:23] #knownspace> Dan: LOL!
[19:24] #knownspace> SeanS: doing all julie's stuff. get back here closing on 5. check email, check facebook, check xchat on a whim and went ooooops
[19:24] #knownspace> Dan: That's the way it goes, sometimes.
[19:24] #knownspace> SeanS: yeah
[19:24] #knownspace> SeanS: saw that steven barnes was online on facebook so i asked him if he wanted to come it
[19:25] #knownspace> SeanS: in
[19:25] #knownspace> Dan: I don't have him friended yet. Odd, since half my friends list is writers.
[19:26] #knownspace> SeanS: he said not today but maybe schedule it in the future
[19:26] #knownspace> SeanS: he is one that will accept your friend request and respond to good responses. he posts a lot
[19:27] #knownspace> Dan: That's the good thing about the Monthly chats. The bad thing is that a month in between gives me too much time to forget.
[19:27] #knownspace> SeanS: steven probablly knows my name through larry but i have no idea if he really does
[19:28] #knownspace> SeanS: change probably to might
[19:28] #knownspace> SeanS: ah to have frankg back
[19:33] #knownspace> Dan: If Frank were still with us, I'd have been published back in 2007.
[19:35] #knownspace> Dan: If not earlier. He let me drop him into that online novel I wrote in 2003-2004.
[19:35] #knownspace> SeanS: probably
[19:35] #knownspace> SeanS: he did have a shit load of connections
[19:35] #knownspace> Dan: Yeah, he was pushing me to finish a novel, any novel, so that he could shop it around.
[19:36] #knownspace> SeanS: he got me to set up this server
[19:36] #knownspace> Dan: I remember. A toast to Frank! We miss you, Dude!
[19:37] #knownspace> SeanS: just poured a beer into my styrofoam cup... wait... a toast to frank needs a stein and i just happened to put one in the freezer earlier
[19:39] #knownspace> SeanS: now ready for a toast to my friend the late great frank gasperik
[19:39] #knownspace> Dan: Salute!
[19:39] #knownspace> SeanS: Here's to ya buddy..
[19:40] #knownspace> SeanS: AHHHH... I sure do miss the man... amazing this day and age... great friends around the world and like Frank
[19:40] #knownspace> SeanS: I wish I could meet them all
[19:41] #knownspace> Dan: One day we'll make it possible!
[19:41] #knownspace> SeanS: well, we have virtually met
[19:41] #knownspace> SeanS: just not physically
[19:42] #knownspace> SeanS: i need to upgrade my web cam
[19:42] #knownspace> Dan: They're making some great new ones. Work really well in lower light levels.
[19:42] #knownspace> SeanS: beer going down way to easily/nicely
[19:43] #knownspace> SeanS: high light levels are my problem
[19:43] #knownspace> Dan: LOL!
[19:44] #knownspace> SeanS: well, 1 side of the house (toward the river) is glass
[19:45] #knownspace> SeanS: pretty tasty out of the stein... will have to look for one to use on the boat. bad idea. styrofoam floats pewter sinks
[19:46] #knownspace> SeanS: ah.. three dead trolls in a baggy
[19:47] #knownspace> Dan: Yeah. I use a stainless one with a cast resin exterior at Cons.
[19:47] #knownspace> SeanS: this one is a bud one that a friend regifted me with i think. what the hell
[19:49] #knownspace> Dan: I've got a batch of glass beer mugs that never come off the shelf, and several ceramic beer stiens that never come off the shelves.
[19:50] #knownspace> SeanS: this is the first time i have used this thing in years. totally forgot it was even in the cabinet
[19:51] #knownspace> SeanS: i saw it the other day when julie asked me if i had something and i said yes... looked around till i found whatever it was and 2 steins were sitting next to it.
[19:51] Roy has joined #knownspace
[19:51] #knownspace> SeanS: hi roy
[19:52] #knownspace> Dan: Hello, Roy.
[19:52] #knownspace> Dan: LOL!
[19:52] #knownspace> SeanS: we mentioned a toast to frank and i remembered that i had put one in the freezer
[19:52] #knownspace> Dan: W know *that* name!
[19:53] #knownspace> roytruesdale: Has Larry Niven showed up yet?
[19:53] #knownspace> SeanS: he was here around 3 eastern. its 7:47 now
[19:53] #knownspace> Dan: Larry usually visits during the early fore & after noon California local time.
[19:54] #knownspace> roytruesdale: This is my first time on Niven chat. Pardon my ignorance.
[19:54] #knownspace> Dan: Oh, don't worry in the slightest!
[19:54] #knownspace> SeanS: no worries
[19:55] #knownspace> SeanS: Ed Lerner usually shows up but did not make an appearence today
[19:55] #knownspace> SeanS: tho i did ask Steven Barnes to come in
[19:55] #knownspace> roytruesdale: Have any of you read "By Mind Alone"?
[19:55] #knownspace> SeanS: i have not
[19:55] #knownspace> Dan: I don't recall it. Refresh my memory, please.
[19:56] #knownspace> SeanS: yeah dan, this server's name is brennan. when I have to build another one it will be called Truesdale. ;)
[19:56] #knownspace> roytruesdale: I did in the late 90's. It's Niven's oldest uncollected story. It's about psychic teleportation. Do you want spoilers?
[19:57] #knownspace> SeanS: sure
[19:58] #knownspace> Dan: Spoilers never ruined anything for me.
[19:58] #knownspace> SeanS: the first IRC server I did was called Phhstpok. I hope I got it right. hard to do unless you have the book in front of you
[19:59] #knownspace> roytruesdale: There's a class experimenting with psi teleportation. The hero figures out, by an increase of temperature if I recall correctly, that the laws of conservation apply to teleportation. When his girlfriend teleports out of a moving vehicle back to the classroom, he knows ahead of time--and is right--that she will continue moving at 60 mph into the wall and be killed.
[20:00] #knownspace> roytruesdale: I never figured out why it was never collected. I gather Larry didn't like it very much. I thought it was very good.
[20:00] #knownspace> Dan: He used that detail in "Fourth Profession" as something that would happen if the lead character *could* teleport. Noce.
[20:01] #knownspace> roytruesdale: The part about heat from teleporting was also used in "A Kind of Murder."
[20:01] #knownspace> SeanS: would you like me to ask him?
[20:01] #knownspace> SeanS: yeah... altitude differences
[20:02] #knownspace> roytruesdale: Sure, if you talk to him.
[20:02] #knownspace> SeanS: I email him questions from the chatroom and he generaly answers
[20:02] #knownspace> roytruesdale: Is Niven planning on going to Renovation in August?
[20:03] #knownspace> SeanS: dont know
[20:03] #knownspace> Dan: Better you than me, Sean. Larry only remembers me as "that guy in the cowboy hat at that one convention in Tennessee the year Jerry & I were out on tour."
[20:03] #knownspace> SeanS: heh
[20:04] #knownspace> roytruesdale: I would think he would be. It's not too far from where he lives, and THE MOON MAZE GAME will be released one day before the convention.
[20:04] #knownspace> SeanS: I am nowhere near as close to him as Carol is but he responds to me
[20:05] #knownspace> SeanS: roy, I will shoot that question to him tomorrow. do you want me to send his response to an email?
[20:05] #knownspace> roytruesdale: Sure. I'm at
[20:05] #knownspace> SeanS: will do. tis a story i have never read so am very interested
[20:06] #knownspace> SeanS: dan, whats the one that is in that convention fan book that came out that lensmen keeps digitally waving in my face
[20:07] #knownspace> SeanS: my english teacher would slap me for that sentence
[20:07] #knownspace> roytruesdale: It was in WORLDS OF IF, June 1966. That's the only place it's ever been.
[20:08] #knownspace> SeanS: I will include that with my email to Larry
[20:08] #knownspace> Dan: Damn, Sean. I can't recall the title of that one. But isn't it available on the List website?
[20:08] #knownspace> roytruesdale: Are you talking about BRIDGING THE GALAXIES?
[20:09] #knownspace> SeanS: but I have been drinking beer so not going to email my favorite author tonight
[20:09] #knownspace> SeanS: yes
[20:09] #knownspace> SeanS: Bridging the Galaxies is what i was thinking of
[20:10] #knownspace> SeanS: Soob seems to think he has the only known copy and keeps beating me over the head with that knowledge
[20:11] #knownspace> SeanS: how long have you been a fan, roy, if you dont mind me asking
[20:12] #knownspace> roytruesdale: The only otherwise uncollected stories from BRIDGING THE GALAXIES are "It's Only a Story," "The Leshy Circuit," and "The South Los Angeles Broadcasting System." Actually TSLABS was collected in a non-Niven anthology.
[20:12] #knownspace> roytruesdale: I have been a Niven fan since 1980.
[20:13] #knownspace> SeanS: and a very knowledgable fan at that. kicking my knowledge's butt ;)
[20:13] #knownspace> Dan: Niven fan since 1976 here. :)
[20:13] #knownspace> SeanS: and I run the IRC server for the Larry Niven website and mailing list ;)
[20:14] #knownspace> roytruesdale: I just need to get hold of BRIDGING THE GALAXIES and "Wisdom" and I'll have read all his fiction--and the vast majority of his articles as well.
[20:14] #knownspace> Dan: And you have our infernal gratitude, Sean. :)
[20:14] #knownspace> SeanS: good luck getting ahold of Bridging the Galaxies
[20:15] #knownspace> SeanS: if you do scan it and upload me a copy
[20:16] #knownspace> roytruesdale: Have you read STRANGE LIGHT yet? I enjoyed it, especially "Doubling Rate."
[20:16] #knownspace> Dan: The only place that it might be availavle is if someone is selling copies of Worlds of If on e-bay.
[20:17] #knownspace> Dan: Rather, the only place I can *think of* that it might be available. I did manage to get the entire set of Tom Swift Jr. novels there.
[20:18] #knownspace> roytruesdale: BRIDGING is available on ebay and amazon. It's also in the University of Arizona-Tucson library, for library use only.
[20:21] #knownspace> roytruesdale: The really hard one to get is "Wisdom." It was written for ALTAIR # 4, an *Australian* fanzine, in a special for the Worldcon there in 1999. The only place I could find that had it was an Aussie bookstore. When you added shipping in it came to about 60 bucks!!!! That's for a story with supposedly under 100 words. I mean, c'mon, I love Niven, but these are hard times, people!
[20:21] #knownspace> SeanS: i have never thrown my google-fu at it and really dont want to ;)
[20:22] #knownspace> SeanS: bio
[20:24] #knownspace> roytruesdale: Any of you coming to Worldcon in Reno this August? I live here, so obviously I wouldn't miss it.
[20:25] #knownspace> SeanS: nope. wish i could. i have never been to a convention
[20:26] #knownspace> roytruesdale: I haven't either. This is my first. I suspect that there are more "shadow fans" than convention-attending fans, by a large margin.
[20:26] #knownspace> SeanS: here i am a SMOF and have tried 3 times to convention with online friends but real life keeps intervening. ;(
[20:27] #knownspace> SeanS: to go to
[20:27] #knownspace> roytruesdale: Is that Single Mother F****r?
[20:27] #knownspace> SeanS: nope
[20:28] #knownspace> Dan: I'm tapped out as far as convention funds go. AnachroCon in Atlanta 'cause I'm a guest writer, LibertyCon in Chattanooga 'cause my wife & I are part of the family there, and a trip to England to visit my wife's family & some of our online friends has used up my budget for vacations for the year.
[20:28] #knownspace> SeanS: secret master of fandom
[20:29] #knownspace> roytruesdale: Sorry, I wasn't familiar with the acronym. No offense intended.
[20:29] #knownspace> roytruesdale: Exactly what is a secret master of fandom anyway?
[20:29] #knownspace> SeanS: one of the guys behind the scenes that make shit happen... irc guys, convention comittee people that kind... no worries. i didnt know the term either until i was called one
[20:29] #knownspace> Dan: Someone with inside connections to fans & writers all over the world.
[20:31] #knownspace> roytruesdale: Dan, what are conventions like? Is the booze sufficient?
[20:31] #knownspace> SeanS: you going to liberty this year dan? when is it? I can try like hell to make it again.
[20:31] #knownspace> SeanS: he just told me he has a convention stein ;)
[20:31] #knownspace> Dan: Sean, modest though he is, knows more about computers than most IT companies. SMOFs have a way of adopting new SMOFs from among the best & brightest minds they meet.
[20:32] #knownspace> Dan: Liberty is the weekend of July 15th through 17th.
[20:33] #knownspace> SeanS: interesting timing... those dates are sticking in my head for some reason. possibly the young one (Julie's) off to camp
[20:33] #knownspace> Dan: AnachroCon is Feb. 25th through 27th.
[20:33] #knownspace> SeanS: no possible way
[20:34] #knownspace> Dan: The vacation to England is May 4th through 18th. LOL!
[20:35] #knownspace> Dan: If I don't get that new position at work, I'll have about a week and a half of vacation time left for the year.
[20:35] #knownspace> SeanS: wish i was going with.
[20:35] #knownspace> SeanS: was much shorter when you flew over last time wasnt it?
[20:36] #knownspace> SeanS: just scrolled up
[20:36] #knownspace> SeanS: dan, answer roy about booze at conventions
[20:37] #knownspace> SeanS: i am interested as well
[20:37] #knownspace> Dan: Yeah, but we were going for a funeral, after I had used up all but 2 days of my vacation time for last year. We had to get the union to negotiate for me to get a couple of unpaid days off for the trip.
[20:37] #knownspace> SeanS: gotcha
[20:38] #knownspace> roytruesdale: A question about conventions: what portion of the conventioneers are well-grounded in sf as a whole, and what portion thinks science fiction means Star Trek and Star Wars knockoffs only? Not that that would keep me from going, but I like people who share my interests.
[20:39] #knownspace> Dan: Booze at Cons? Depends on the Con. Sometimes they have open bars, sometimes free beer from kegs, sometimes you have to bring your own, but as long as you don't make a scene, you can drink all you like if you're of leagle age.
[20:39] #knownspace> SeanS: the best i can say is dont go to a comic convention if you want something else but dan would be better to answer
[20:41] #knownspace> Dan: Trek & Wars "single-interest-fans" will always be among the people attending any con, but most of the time they are less than 1% of con-goers.
[20:41] #knownspace> roytruesdale: Speaking of Star Trek, did you know that you can read Niven's own Star Trek strip, "The Wristwatch Plantation," online?
[20:41] #knownspace> Dan: We have copies already. LOL!
[20:42] #knownspace> SeanS: if you like trek i would recommend star trek phase 2.. a quick google will find the right web page
[20:42] #knownspace> SeanS: in harms way wraps up a ton of stuff... if you are into fan fic that is
[20:43] #knownspace> roytruesdale: I liked Star Trek when I was a kid. I read Wristwatch mainly because Niven wrote it.
[20:44] #knownspace> SeanS: i have a copy of downstream somewhere if you want it. Niven written Land of the Lost episode
[20:44] #knownspace> Dan: I still love Larry's Green Lantern comic series bible. Parts of that are online, I've heard. Someone sent me a download of scanned Green Lantern comic books, but I haven't had time to see if Larry's story is included.
[20:45] #knownspace> Dan: Reading scans of a comic book on my computer is a pain, even though I have a comic-reader program downloaded.
[20:45] #knownspace> SeanS: also have the Outer Limits ep of Niven's Inconstant Moon. the short story is better
[20:46] #knownspace> SeanS: ybook rules
[20:46] #knownspace> Dan: Lyn & I watched that last year, you're right, reading the story is better than watching the TV ep.
[20:47] #knownspace> SeanS: with no directing experience, I could of done a better job
[20:48] #knownspace> roytruesdale: I've seen all three of the Niven/Gerrold Land of the Lost Episodes. You can pay amazon to watch them online.
[20:49] #knownspace> Dan: So many people send me so many things. I barelly have spare time to keep up with new Doctor Who episodes each year. Being a newly semi-pro writer with a day job sometimes sucks raw eggs. :)
[20:49] #knownspace> SeanS: i think gerrold did 2 and niven did one. the niven/gerrold the flying scorceres was fun. forgot to add that to the STL list
[20:50] #knownspace> SeanS: Dan, I found out today that I have 2 seasons of the IT crowd that I missed. fun for me later in the week... will download them while at a friend's watching the super bowl.
[20:51] #knownspace> Dan: Sounds like a plan!
[20:51] #knownspace> SeanS: waiting on who and sarah jane to fire up
[20:52] #knownspace> Dan: I've forgotten if Sarah Jane will broadcast first, or if Who does. I think SJA. Might be the last season for SJA anyway. Liz wants to retire.
[20:53] #knownspace> SeanS: that sucks... i love her
[20:53] #knownspace> roytruesdale: Dan, the Larry Niven Green Lantern comic wasn't one of the regular issues. It was a separate graphic novel, GREEN LANTERN: GANTHET'S TALE, and it's available on amazon.
[20:53] #knownspace> Dan: I do too, yet my wife forgives me for it. Just like she forgives me for loving Betty Page. :)
[20:55] #knownspace> SeanS: Love BIllie Piper as well... sigh
[20:56] #knownspace> SeanS: i may be 42 but i am not dead yet ;)
[20:57] #knownspace> Dan: Lyn just found up an apartment in England... Only 13 million pounds! LOL! I told her that if she could find us an apartment with 1.25 acres of floorspace for under 75000 pounds, I'd consider moving to England. :)
[20:57] #knownspace> SeanS: and tell Lyn to shut up.. tis just guys throwing bullshit back and forth
[20:57] #knownspace> Dan: up=us
[20:58] #knownspace> Dan: Oh, she's not worried. She knows she's the only woman I could put up with.
[20:58] #knownspace> SeanS: 75 thousand... isnt that like 100,000 bucks
[20:58] #knownspace> Dan: $50k
[20:59] #knownspace> SeanS: are you sure?
[20:59] #knownspace> Dan: That's what our house & land here in Georgia is mortgaged at.
[20:59] #knownspace> SeanS: i think you are on the wrong side of the exchange
[20:59] #knownspace> SeanS: 50k would be like 38 K pounds
[21:00] #knownspace> Dan: Dollar and a half per pound is the usuall exchange rate.
[21:00] #knownspace> Dan: You're right, I did the math backwards again, didn't I? Dyslexia strikes again!
[21:00] #knownspace> SeanS: see... i told you
[21:01] #knownspace> Dan: Math, not my strong suit. :)
[21:01] #knownspace> SeanS: dont sweat it man.. you are one of my best friends... even tho we have never met
[21:02] #knownspace> SeanS: just promise when you come over to drink shit loads of beer, dont decide to drive home and ignore all tries to get you to stay. had a net friend that did that
[21:03] #knownspace> SeanS: and it was agreed on before hand that the spare bedroom was his for the night
[21:03] #knownspace> Dan: Lyn is soooo convinced that I'm just months away from becoming the next Steven King of Sci-fi writers. LOL!
[21:03] #knownspace> SeanS: king writes horror
[21:04] #knownspace> SeanS: but i love her confidance in you
[21:05] #knownspace> SeanS: roy, to let you know, i said that i would not apologize for typos
[21:05] #knownspace> Dan: Yeah, but the point is that he gets paid the Big Bucks. I'm just starting to sell stuff. I've made a grand total of $350 off my writing last year.
[21:06] #knownspace> SeanS: and you have written and run aphelion for 20 years... you complaining?
[21:06] #knownspace> Dan: Nah, Aphelion has made me world famous and helped 100 writers start selling their work.
[21:07] #knownspace> SeanS: dude... you have made me want to start writing again. everything i wrote previously died in the house fire. I havent written anything in 11 years
[21:07] #knownspace> Dan: I'm just the most recent of Aphelion's successes. :)
[21:08] #knownspace> roytruesdale: This might be a good time to get into sf. Just a hunch, but with SpaceX, Virgin Galactic, et al, the genre may make a comeback. I've had a story in mind, but I can't seem to get it off the ground yet.
[21:08] #knownspace> Dan: Man, just fire up the word processor, sit down, and CREATE!
[21:08] #knownspace> SeanS: i hear ya
[21:09] #knownspace> Dan: Roy, all my sales so far have been in the steampunk genre. That's really hot right now.
[21:09] #knownspace> SeanS: the sad thing is i think i ws more creative in my younger life
[21:09] #knownspace> SeanS: lots of things dragging on my mind now
[21:11] #knownspace> Dan: The trick is to put your worries away for the time you spend typing. It ain't easy, but it can be done. I have to do it all the time. Bi-polar wife adds loads of extra stress to a relationship.
[21:11] #knownspace> SeanS: yeah.. she calls me sometimes when she is really into the wine. I love it.
[21:11] #knownspace> roytruesdale: One problem is that I'm old enough to be hypersensitive to mistakes, especially in the science of the story.
[21:12] #knownspace> Dan: Roy, that is a real consideration. But research can be fun to do.
[21:13] #knownspace> SeanS: mention the research needs here or on a list like the niven list and tons of people will help. ringworld's children spawned from a niven list discussion
[21:14] #knownspace> Dan: That's one reason I've been successful with steampunk- Half the research I've already done just from history stuff I read for fun. My straight SF tends to be time travel stories for the same reason.
[21:15] #knownspace> Dan: True, even Lensman bent over backwards to send me links for astronomy stuff I needed for the early stages of the steampunk novel.
[21:17] #knownspace> SeanS: the onlly reason i dont like lensman is his character and wanting to be right all the time with an in your face attitude. I have never questioned his fan knowlegde or willingness to help. if anything he want to help so much you want to push hiim off the boat and let him drown
[21:17] #knownspace> Dan: I do have having to come up with back-up versions of the plot just in case HG wells estate won't allow me to use War of the Worlds references affordably. But I at least have the back-up plan in place.
[21:17] #knownspace> Dan: I do have = I do hate, rather.
[21:19] #knownspace> Dan: My natural tendencies towards nearly-possible engineering have turned into an asset now.
[21:19] #knownspace> roytruesdale: My concept involves two twin planets of a star, probably a red dwarf. Although they're in the same orbit, the fine print of their continental drift has turned one planet (or at least large portions of it) into a tropical paradise, and the other is in an Ice Age. Notably, it hasn't always been so, but it has been since humans settled both worlds. The inhabitants of the worlds have been cut off from each other for technical reasons, but are coming b
[21:20] #knownspace> Dan: Airships with jet turbine engines, running off of LPgas rather than coal oil or gasoline? I was the first steampunk writer to think of that, so far.
[21:20] #knownspace> SeanS: have to be differnt orbits
[21:21] #knownspace> Dan: Or differen axial tilts.
[21:21] #knownspace> SeanS: two planets in the same orbit doesnt work very well
[21:21] #knownspace> roytruesdale: Orbiting each other, obviously.
[21:21] #knownspace> Dan: Could work, but the math would be insanity-inducing.
[21:22] #knownspace> SeanS: unless both one faced with the civilized cides opposite the sun on one side and sun facing on the other
[21:22] #knownspace> SeanS: sides
[21:22] #knownspace> Dan: Oh, binary planets? Cool concept.
[21:23] #knownspace> SeanS: rocheworld kinda did the same
[21:23] #knownspace> SeanS: land on one planet and ocean on the other
[21:23] #knownspace> Dan: Yeah, but the math was still awesome.
[21:23] #knownspace> SeanS: phone
[21:25] #knownspace> Dan: I did steal Forward's design for solar sails for the Nightwatch novel, but I added in new stuff that proposed that magnetic sails worked even better than solar sails.
[21:26] #knownspace> roytruesdale: Actually, you've given me an idea. Since there has obviously been some retreat technology-wise, I might be able to incorporate some steampunk-type stuff into the novel. Or would that be too over the top?
[21:27] #knownspace> Dan: Steampunk works best as over-the-top.
[21:30] #knownspace> Dan: Anytime you have tech being lost, you're going to have steampunk-style tech stepping to the fore. Same sort of thing Larry & Jerry used in Footfall with the Oirion spaceship design: Easy to build, totally functional, just not super-science.
[21:30] #knownspace> Dan: Orion is 1950s tech, after all.
[21:34] #knownspace> Dan: I used the same sort of dodge im my steampunk novel. Since it is an alternate history, I had Tesla's older brother not die in an accident the way he did in our world, plus I had Edison discredited as a patent-stealing thief who wasn't able to hold Tesla and his brother back, so Tesla-tech came decades earlier in my steampunk world.
[21:36] #knownspace> Dan: I also had Hero of Alexandria building steam-powered chariots & farm tractors back in the Golden Age, too, but I had to kick-start the industrial revolution somewhere, LOL!
[21:39] #knownspace> Dan: That's one of the fun bits about writing alternate histories: You can make things happen when you need them to have happened for story purposes.
[21:44] #knownspace> roytruesdale: If I had to pick one event in classical times that could have changed anything had it gone the other way, I'd pick the unplanned killing of Archimedes by a Roman soldier. If he'd survived to invent algebra and calculus...
[21:48] #knownspace> Dan: Lots of fun with the implications of his survival, there.
[21:49] #knownspace> roytruesdale: I can see a story about a science fiction Rome in 100 AD.
[21:50] #knownspace> Dan: So many possibilities in that, LOL!
[21:55] #knownspace> Dan: OK, I have to start day shift early tomorrow. I can't spend more than another hour or two here in chat.
[22:01] #knownspace> roytruesdale: Any news on BOWL OF HEAVEN?
[22:02] #knownspace> Dan: Still in development, as I understand it.
[22:53] #knownspace> Dan: Bedtime. Goodnight!
[22:57] #knownspace> roytruesdale: Yeah, I'm off to bed too.
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