Feburary 2nd 2008

Feb 02 14:03:24 * Lensman (~lensman@ has joined #knownspace

Feb 02 14:24:31 * NickE (~NickE@ has joined #knownspace

Feb 02 14:24:57 <NickE> Hi, just logging in, but wont be her e for a bit

Feb 02 14:25:07 <NickE> back in 20-30 mins

Feb 02 14:30:33 * Tanada (~Tanada@ has joined #knownspace

Feb 02 14:38:21 <Lensman> Hi fen!

Feb 02 14:43:02 <Tanada> Hi Lens

Feb 02 14:45:24 * Tanada has quit (Quit: *g0ne*)

Feb 02 14:59:18 * Dan (~vila@ has joined #knownspace

Feb 02 14:59:42 <Dan> I almost forgot the time.

Feb 02 15:01:09 <Lensman> Welcome, Dan!

Feb 02 15:01:54 <Dan> I got busy doing some electrical repairs around the house and lost track of time.

Feb 02 15:02:26 <Dan> But I now have two more things off my to-do list.

Feb 02 15:07:58 <Lensman> Well it appears to be just you and me at the moment. Hopefully that will change shortly...

Feb 02 15:09:36 <Dan> Not a problem. I'm not ready to tackle that third light fixture just yet, anyway. :)

Feb 02 15:09:38 * Larry (~Larry@ has joined #knownspace

Feb 02 15:09:48 <Dan> Hello Larry!

Feb 02 15:10:14 <Dan> You're here early today.

Feb 02 15:10:30 <Larry> Hello all. I'm here by luck and diligence: I lost/erased the address.

Feb 02 15:10:50 * Dan grins.

Feb 02 15:11:07 <Dan> Luck and diligence count for a lot.

Feb 02 15:11:14 <Lensman> Hi, Larry, and welcome!

Feb 02 15:12:12 <Larry> my usual routine is to forget the Chat until I'm about an hour late.

Feb 02 15:12:27 <Larry> What's our chosen topic?

Feb 02 15:12:50 <Dan> I'm afraid tht we've yet to start off on a topic, so any input from you will be welcomed.

Feb 02 15:12:56 <Lensman> Re: Lift motors in Known Space. Not the ones used on Ringworld, but elsewhere, such as the lift belts and flycycles and perhaps aircars. Larry, do those use an application of artificial gravity to fly, or what?

Feb 02 15:13:19 <Lensman> Well I just threw out a topic, but if there's something Larry would rather discuss that's fine with me.

Feb 02 15:13:31 <Dan> Good question, though.

Feb 02 15:14:31 <NickE> back

Feb 02 15:14:42 <Dan> WB, NickE.

Feb 02 15:14:49 <Lensman> You're in luck Nick, Larry came early today!

Feb 02 15:14:56 <NickE> Hi Larry, Dan, Lens and all

Feb 02 15:15:25 <Larry> I'm involved in a possible computer game. You guys remember Aldo Spadoni's artwork? He paints on a computer, and he painted most of my spacecraft.

Feb 02 15:15:39 <NickE> Finally finished FoW (found the time) Nice. Very nice

Feb 02 15:15:42 <Lensman> 'Fraid not.

Feb 02 15:15:52 <Dan> That sounds neat!

Feb 02 15:16:28 <NickE> The name rings a bell

Feb 02 15:16:29 <Dan> Though I do hope the new game will be more fun to play than I found the two Ringworld games.

Feb 02 15:17:20 <Larry> Aldo linked up with two other guys, and now we're carving out a shooter/puzzler covering the solar system.

Feb 02 15:17:39 <NickE> Oooh. Sounds intriguing

Feb 02 15:17:51 <Lensman> I see Spadoni did the wonderful semi-technical drawing/painting of the /Michael/ from /Footfall/. Very nice!

Feb 02 15:18:13 <NickE> Based on real science, way out stuff or a happy mixture? :-)

Feb 02 15:18:45 <Larry> I should apologise for the Ringworld games. Some promises got broken, and the results were lame. I prefer Fred Pohl's GATEWAY.

Feb 02 15:18:47 <Dan> I found having to stop the game-play and telephone the game company's clue-pnone to be a bit of a bummer.

Feb 02 15:19:59 <Lensman> Yah, the second Rw game was the *only* time I've paid for a game clue. After doing that I gave upk there didn't seem to be any logic to the solution.

Feb 02 15:20:00 <Dan> Well, the *stories* in those games were fine. As I said, the sticking point for me was not being able to solve the puzzle sections without calling the game company.

Feb 02 15:20:52 <Lensman> Larry, has Spadoni drawn the /Liar/?

Feb 02 15:21:48 <NickE> Seen various versions of that, probably more than any other of your ships

Feb 02 15:22:19 <Larry> FREE FALL will use what we know of real science, if you'll allow gravity generators.

Feb 02 15:22:35 <NickE> I can live with that :-)

Feb 02 15:22:42 <NickE> cool

Feb 02 15:22:49 <Dan> Same here.

Feb 02 15:22:52 <Larry> The first I saw of Aldo's work was a wonderful picture of the Liar.

Feb 02 15:22:54 <Lensman> Yup.

Feb 02 15:23:14 <NickE> That must be where I've heard the nam

Feb 02 15:23:16 <NickE> e

Feb 02 15:24:02 <Lensman> Is there a website showcasing his art? I don't find one immediately with a Google search.

Feb 02 15:25:08 <Larry> Aldo showcase site: I don't know. Sorry. We once thought a disk would be sold with SCATTERBRAIN.

Feb 02 15:25:53 <Dan> That would have been a great bonus.

Feb 02 15:26:24 <NickE> That would indeed

Feb 02 15:26:55 <Lensman> I see from OryCon 18, 1996:

Feb 02 15:27:24 <Lensman> Larry Niven's Space Ships Drawn by Aldo Spadoni: A presentation by Larry Niven

Feb 02 15:28:05 <Lensman> Anyway... has Spadoni done computer art for this game?

Feb 02 15:29:32 <Lensman> Oh, BTW Larry, I hope your eye infection has finally cleared up?

Feb 02 15:30:27 <Larry> Aldo's doing artwork for the game, but Rick Ernst and Brian Gomez have hired a couple more people too. Company is Alchemic.

Feb 02 15:31:29 <NickE> Not much of a gamer on PC at least, but for this I'll upgrade!

Feb 02 15:31:42 <Dan> Sounds good. Please keep us posted as to their progress as often as you can.

Feb 02 15:32:00 <NickE> Yeah yeah, we thrive on titbits :-)

Feb 02 15:32:14 <Lensman> Yah, if you need some beta testers I know where you can find them! :)

Feb 02 15:32:31 <NickE> heh

Feb 02 15:35:19 <Lensman> Is it time for a change of subject?

Feb 02 15:36:54 <Dan> Sure. I'd like to hear Larry's thoughts on his lift belts and reactionless thrusters. How does he imagine them to work?

Feb 02 15:37:51 * senax (~frank@ has joined #knownspace

Feb 02 15:38:00 <Larry> I think we're working with just reaction jets in this game. Lift belts and reactionless devices were "soft" science.

Feb 02 15:38:08 <Dan> Hello senax.

Feb 02 15:38:12 <NickE> Hi Frank

Feb 02 15:38:18 <senax> Hello all.

Feb 02 15:38:29 <Larry> As for my eyes, I don't think they're any younger.

Feb 02 15:38:44 <NickE> soft, but made for good story

Feb 02 15:39:02 <Dan> True for everyone, Larry. I'm reminded that I need to get new glasses, myself.

Feb 02 15:39:24 <Lensman> Something which IIRC was brought up at the last chat was... Puppeteer 'smut talk'. :) I'd like to revisit that while Larry is here.

Feb 02 15:40:02 <Dan> Carol will be sorry to be missing *that* topic. :)

Feb 02 15:40:07 <Lensman> [Nessus said] "What you must know is that population control is very difficult for us. There are only two ways for one of us to avoid becoming a parent. One is major surgery. The other is total abstinence from sexual congress."

Feb 02 15:40:10 <Larry> I don't recall "puppeteer smut talk". must have missed it.

Feb 02 15:40:52 <Lensman> Now, the question is, how does this fit in with what we know from FOW? Why can't a single puppeteer have sex with a companion?

Feb 02 15:41:11 <NickE> I'd guess the cues aren't right

Feb 02 15:41:33 <Larry> I've persuaded Ed Lerner (I think!) that puppeteer sex and gender must remain somewhat mysterious.

Feb 02 15:41:46 <NickE> aw!

Feb 02 15:42:22 <Dan> If things run their normal course, Ed will pop into the chatroom within seconds of Larry leaving.

Feb 02 15:42:29 <NickE> I was quite pleased to see FoW confirm stuff we've long speculated on

Feb 02 15:42:46 <Larry> Have you ever seen us together?

Feb 02 15:42:49 <NickE> Aye that's happened a few times now :-)

Feb 02 15:43:10 <NickE> Admit it, you're the same person! :-)

Feb 02 15:43:28 <Dan> No, but then I don't think that you've got a multiple-personality problem, either. :)

Feb 02 15:43:48 <NickE> brb

Feb 02 15:43:52 <Lensman> Nick: Yes! I remember a debate on GP hulls, and whether there could be more than the four types. Hmmm... if I say any more, it will be a spoiler for FOW.

Feb 02 15:44:43 <Lensman> LOL! Well the two of you both participated in the dedicated FOW chat, but that could have been just a multiple personality thing...

Feb 02 15:45:36 * Beltminer (~Beltminer@ has joined #knownspace

Feb 02 15:45:45 <Dan> I don't think that Sean has any settings tweaked for the chatroom to prevent ghosting or clone connections.

Feb 02 15:46:05 <NickE> Hi BeltMiner

Feb 02 15:46:43 <Beltminer> Hi Lensman! I took your invite to be here. :) Thx!

Feb 02 15:46:52 <NickE> Well, the RPG had a Peirin variant of a #4 for the scenario

Feb 02 15:47:00 <Beltminer> hi NickE

Feb 02 15:47:27 <Lensman> Welcome Spike!

Feb 02 15:47:36 <NickE> 40m hull, IR transparent

Feb 02 15:48:42 <Beltminer> Thanks Lensman. [I'm Spike MacPhee, onetime KS timeline scholar :) ]

Feb 02 15:49:05 <NickE> Ah, thrice welcome then :-)

Feb 02 15:49:09 <Lensman> Fen, I'd like to introduce an "old school" Niven fan. Spike MacPhee is one of the guys responsible for the Timeline of Known Space, published in /Tales of Known Space/.

Feb 02 15:49:19 <Larry> Hi, Spike!

Feb 02 15:49:25 <NickE> Pleasure!

Feb 02 15:49:38 <Beltminer> hey, Larry! <waves>

Feb 02 15:50:03 * InvisibleDragon (~Carol@ has joined #knownspace

Feb 02 15:50:10 <NickE> Hi Carol

Feb 02 15:50:11 <Dan> I've read that timeline often, starting back in the lte '70s. Thanks for writing it up, Spike.

Feb 02 15:50:22 <Dan> Ah, Carol arrives!

Feb 02 15:50:24 <NickE> Indeed

Feb 02 15:50:30 * InvisibleDragon is now known as FlyingDragon

Feb 02 15:50:38 <FlyingDragon> Hello

Feb 02 15:50:49 <Lensman> Spike sent me a "Thank you" note for mentioning his timeline, which was used as the basis for my own Known Space Timeline, and we started exchanging e-mails, and I mentioned this chat was today...

Feb 02 15:50:52 <FlyingDragon> Niven just posted to the list

Feb 02 15:50:58 <Beltminer> YVW - equal credit to jayembee - Jerry Boyajian.

Feb 02 15:51:00 <Lensman> Welcome Carol!

Feb 02 15:51:28 <NickE> Larry's here Carol

Feb 02 15:51:42 <FlyingDragon> TY! Nice to be here. Finished wiht Ninja school for the day. Shot 29 of 62 arrows in the target, and a few knives in the target too.

Feb 02 15:51:44 <Larry> Hello, FlyingDragon!

Feb 02 15:51:48 <FlyingDragon> Oh, Hi Larry!!!!

Feb 02 15:51:49 <NickE> Early :-)

Feb 02 15:52:01 <FlyingDragon> It is almost 3 PM here.

Feb 02 15:53:02 <senax> Larry said he was going to be attending Worldcon this year. Any list members planning to be there?

Feb 02 15:53:05 <Beltminer> Belters and tourists tend to be early NickE

Feb 02 15:53:39 <FlyingDragon> Where is it this year?

Feb 02 15:53:40 <NickE> heh

Feb 02 15:53:52 <senax> It's in Denver, Carol.

Feb 02 15:53:52 <NickE> I wish

Feb 02 15:53:57 <NickE> Thats Denver right?

Feb 02 15:53:59 <FlyingDragon> Oh, not to far from here.

Feb 02 15:54:35 <NickE> A friend from one of the podcasts I do is going though

Feb 02 15:54:44 <Dan> Can't afford WorldCon yet. I'm afraid that just going to the LibertyCon in Tennessee will be enough of a fincial challenge this year.

Feb 02 15:55:16 <Beltminer> Denver? Mile-high? Saves me 1/6 of airline charge to descend, nope, still too much. Not attending. :)

Feb 02 15:55:22 <NickE> Just doing Serenity Complete in the UK in April, media con but hey :-)

Feb 02 15:55:28 <senax> It'll be the first Worldcon for me, since it's the first one that's been within easy driving distance.

Feb 02 15:56:04 <FlyingDragon> I wouldn't say Denver is driving distance to me, but I drove of Colorado and PAST last summer

Feb 02 15:56:09 <Beltminer> great, senax

Feb 02 15:56:24 <NickE> Cool. 2005 was ace though Larry annMarulyn couldn't make it. Had lunch with Brenda Cooper though

Feb 02 15:56:43 <NickE> wups typos

Feb 02 15:58:02 <Dan> I'm having to save up to fly out to New Mexico in a month or so. Going to have to rent a U-Haul and move my oldest step-daughter from Sccorro to here.

Feb 02 15:58:09 <Lensman> Larry has written "Everyone speaks first draft." There should be a similar aphorism for e-mail posts: "E-mails don't have copy-editors."

Feb 02 15:59:19 <FlyingDragon> Lensman's corollary

Feb 02 15:59:36 <Lensman> Thank you Carol! D)

Feb 02 15:59:45 <Lensman> :) Speaking of typos...

Feb 02 16:00:37 <Dan> Typo-Gremlins are *not* an endangered species.

Feb 02 16:00:45 <Lensman> LOL!

Feb 02 16:01:54 <FlyingDragon> D) "All smiles"?

Feb 02 16:02:25 <Beltminer> or "wearing sunglasses"?

Feb 02 16:02:41 <FlyingDragon> wearing a monocle on my one eye?

Feb 02 16:02:54 <Dan> Obviously an X-Men fan.

Feb 02 16:02:56 <FlyingDragon> 8-D is big smiles with glasses.

Feb 02 16:03:03 <senax> hehe

Feb 02 16:03:04 <Lensman> D) Was the typo, but feel free to interpret it however...

Feb 02 16:03:05 <FlyingDragon> Me? No. I know what htey are though/

Feb 02 16:03:26 <FlyingDragon> htey.... sounds like an Egyptian scribe.

Feb 02 16:03:49 <Lensman> LOL! Why yes, I *am* an X-Men fan. D)

Feb 02 16:04:03 <Beltminer> yeth, FD

Feb 02 16:06:03 <Beltminer> I've been browsing the site, and pleased to hear about Juggler/Smuggler out in Aug, but no mention in projects section of 3rd Smoke Ring "Ghost Ships?"

Feb 02 16:06:48 <FlyingDragon> I think Larry had given up the Ghosts with regard to that idea.

Feb 02 16:06:53 <Dan> I thought that Larry had declared "Ghost Ships" to be a dead project? Did I miss an update?

Feb 02 16:07:10 <Lensman> Larry: You've got /Inferno II/ and /Juggler of Worlds/ forthcoming, and I guess you're involved in the creation of this computer game? Anything else in the works fromt he Niven factory?

Feb 02 16:07:14 <Beltminer> k, thx, and *groan* FD

Feb 02 16:07:51 <FlyingDragon> Computer game? Have I been asleep?

Feb 02 16:09:26 <Dan> Larry was telling us about that just before you got here, Carol.

Feb 02 16:09:41 <Lensman> Carol, Larry came early today, he talked about a computer game. Larry, are you involved in writing a story for that, or what?

Feb 02 16:11:01 <FlyingDragon> OH, well. Missed some conversation, but had a nice Korean lunch.

Feb 02 16:12:17 <Larry> I'm involved in shaping the game, and yes, the contract gives me novelization rights. Carol, it's throughout the solar system and mostly free fall.

Feb 02 16:12:38 <Larry> And it's not a certain thing yet.

Feb 02 16:13:05 <Lensman> I think you said the name is "Free Fall"?

Feb 02 16:13:13 <Beltminer> I invite anyone who gets inworld to SecondLife to drop by my home, Spindrift island, host of Jimbo Perhap's 3d Ringworld model. :)

Feb 02 16:14:07 <Larry> "Free Fall", yes.

Feb 02 16:14:46 <Beltminer> mostly free fall? So, orbital habs and the lime? Asteroids? <hopeful look>

Feb 02 16:14:51 <FlyingDragon> Larry, sounds fun!

Feb 02 16:14:54 <Larry> I've seen Jimbo Perhap's Ringworld mockup. Most instructive and well done.

Feb 02 16:14:55 <Lensman> Never been in Second Life. Do I have to buy a plane/boat ticket to visit your island, or do they have, hmmm, virtual stepping discs?

Feb 02 16:15:22 <Beltminer> Lensman, we *have* stepping discs! :)

Feb 02 16:15:35 <NickE> Shiny!

Feb 02 16:15:42 <Lensman> Kewl!

Feb 02 16:16:04 <Dan> Spindrift? Isn't that from the Rick Brandt books?

Feb 02 16:16:19 <Beltminer> just go inworld, type Spindrift and you're there, then walk to the stepping disc and reappear 350 meters up :)

Feb 02 16:17:15 <Lensman> I assume you've solved the potential energy problem, then... (Obscure reference to "By Mind Alone")

Feb 02 16:17:36 <Beltminer> Larry, Jimbo was thrilled at your reaction back then. He and I found out we were Niven fans and I suggested Ringworld - 2 days later, he'd done the prototype!

Feb 02 16:17:47 <NickE> Neat

Feb 02 16:19:02 <Beltminer> Dan, exactly! re Rick Brant. 1950s science-adventure series, including a suborbital accidental flight

Feb 02 16:19:17 <NickE> Wouldnt mind seeing that or the Serenity mockup on Browncoat Island (I think)

Feb 02 16:19:32 <Lensman> BM: I presume this was back when men were men, real computer programmers wrote in FORTRAN, and small furry creatures from Aldebaran were small furry creatures from Aldebaran?

Feb 02 16:19:37 <Beltminer> later, he needed a new host island, and i volunteered

Feb 02 16:19:47 <NickE> (Won't do Second Life tho', so probably won't get to)

Feb 02 16:20:03 <Dan> I was always more of a Tom Swift Jr. fan, but I read one or two of the Rick Brant books as well.

Feb 02 16:20:05 <Beltminer> the Serenity mockup is great but one prob

Feb 02 16:20:16 <NickE> Oh?

Feb 02 16:21:47 * Larry has quit (Quit: *g0ne*)

Feb 02 16:21:55 * Larry (~Larry@ has joined #knownspace

Feb 02 16:21:59 <Beltminer> it's built to accurate scale for your avatar, so teh camera view gets clipped in the walls often - there are 2 other ways to move your point of view, but they are not obvious - those would make it a good experience [alt-leftmousclcik gives zoom views]

Feb 02 16:22:13 * Dan duct-tapes Larry to the channel.

Feb 02 16:22:18 <NickE> heh

Feb 02 16:22:30 <FlyingDragon> LOL

Feb 02 16:22:36 <Larry> Sorry. I hit the wrong key.

Feb 02 16:22:49 <Beltminer> we have the same problem on Spaceportr Alpha with ISS model,

Feb 02 16:22:50 <NickE> do it all the time with email lists

Feb 02 16:23:03 <Lensman> I think we've all done that, Larry.

Feb 02 16:23:14 <Dan> Easy to do. Typos are not restricted to messages.

Feb 02 16:23:20 <NickE> aye

Feb 02 16:23:29 <Beltminer> either build one five times real size, or suffer same camera-view-clipping for newbies

Feb 02 16:24:07 <Beltminer> the puter did exactly what Larry told it to ...

Feb 02 16:24:11 <Dan> If I had a nickle for every time I've hit the Windows key when I reached for the Shift key, I could give up my day job.

Feb 02 16:26:55 * FlyingDragon thinks Dan must have small hands.

Feb 02 16:27:01 <Lensman> Larry: Who is painting the cover for /Inferno II/?

Feb 02 16:27:19 <Dan> Just the opposite.

Feb 02 16:27:53 <Beltminer> Dan, i read the Tom Swift jrs too, but his spacetech started to get outrageous - antigrav, etc, and decades later i see the blurb on a Tom the 3rd, "returning from a mission to another galaxy, TOm..."

Feb 02 16:27:59 * FlyingDragon wonders if Dan's keyboard is of a different standard than hers.

Feb 02 16:28:10 <NickE> brb

Feb 02 16:28:43 <Dan> Spike, the third series was very disappointing.

Feb 02 16:28:56 <Lensman> I picked up the first of the (3rd) Tom Swift series, but it was so poorly written I didn't read more than a few pages.

Feb 02 16:29:40 <Dan> Carol, I think my problem is that I lean back in my chair too often and wind up with my fingers lower in the keyboard than I think they are.

Feb 02 16:30:17 <Lensman> I dearly loved TS Jr back in the day, I had a very nearly complete collection of the books.

Feb 02 16:30:31 <senax> Gotta run--bye everybody. Maybe I'll get a change to stop by later.

Feb 02 16:30:43 * senax (~frank@24.252.63.XXX) has left #knownspace

Feb 02 16:31:16 <Beltminer> Dn, in a way, i'm sad to hear that, because we always need good kids'series to spark them to read ; how about Digby Allen! I only found one of 3 or so and liked it [he traveled moons of jupiter, etc]

Feb 02 16:31:45 <Beltminer> by Joe Greene

Feb 02 16:31:50 <Dan> I grew up reading the second series, and my school library had the first series. I liked the way that those two were generational. Tom Sr. then Tom Jr. But the third series was a complete reboot that didn't reference the first two at all. And as Lensman said, the third series was very badly written.

Feb 02 16:32:43 <Dan> I hink I have all but one of the Dig Allen series. Those were quite fun.

Feb 02 16:32:45 <Larry> cover for Inferno II: not known to me.

Feb 02 16:32:47 <Beltminer> as a kid i was fascinated that the last Tom sr was "The Meteor Stone"

Feb 02 16:33:34 <Dan> There's a seller on e-bay that has the Tom Sr. series as e-books.

Feb 02 16:33:35 <Beltminer> with the alien message incised in it, hardlanded - meteorically! - at Swift Enterprises field

Feb 02 16:33:40 <Lensman> Hey, does anyone know where I can get a star catalog from circa 1969? I was looking at the chapter in Rw today which compares the Puppeteer Homeworld's sun to Procyon, and they're calling it a yellow dwarf. Currently Procyon is rated as... I forget, F4 or F5. I'm guessing that when Larry wrote Rw it was listed in star catalogs as a G type? Anyway, for my KS research I really need a star catalog from the time Larry wrote the early KS stories.

Feb 02 16:34:48 <Beltminer> good idea, i watched Sol go from G0 to g2

Feb 02 16:34:55 <NickE> Thats fairly specific. Ron might be able to help on the list?

Feb 02 16:35:10 * rimworlder (~rimworlder@ has joined #knownspace

Feb 02 16:35:17 <NickE> Doubt an out of dat catalogue would be online anywhere

Feb 02 16:35:18 <Lensman> Yah, I was thinking about sending Ronn! a private e-mail.

Feb 02 16:35:23 <Dan> Hello rimworlder.

Feb 02 16:35:26 <rimworlder> hi

Feb 02 16:35:28 <NickE> hi

Feb 02 16:35:36 <Lensman> Welcome

Feb 02 16:35:41 <Larry> My understanding was that Procyon was a Sol type star expanding towarwd red giant. That was the puppeteers' sun'

Feb 02 16:35:50 <Beltminer> so rimworlder is late due to a precessing Mannschenn drive, hey?

Feb 02 16:35:52 <rimworlder> thanks - I finally remembered to be around on a first saturday

Feb 02 16:36:00 <Larry> sun's fate.

Feb 02 16:36:00 <NickE> yay

Feb 02 16:36:23 <rimworlder> beltminer - ummm, yah. I chose not to try and fiddle with going backwards to make up the difference

Feb 02 16:36:24 <Lensman> And it will be Sol's fate too, in several billion years.

Feb 02 16:36:31 <NickE> Was that a Bertram Chandler ref?

Feb 02 16:36:35 <rimworlder> yep

Feb 02 16:36:52 <NickE> heh, been a long time since I read any of them

Feb 02 16:36:59 <Beltminer> good move, rimworlder! In from Lorn or Faraway, this trip?

Feb 02 16:37:22 <Lensman> I enjoyed the Chandler stuff when I read it, but I've had no urge to re-read them.

Feb 02 16:37:23 <rimworlder> Mellise actually

Feb 02 16:37:37 <Beltminer> same here NickE but those drives were spooky - never forget

Feb 02 16:37:42 <rimworlder> then heading off to New Venusberg for a vacation

Feb 02 16:37:46 <NickE> I red them frequently when younger, but not for ages

Feb 02 16:37:59 <rimworlder> I'm trying to resurrect interest in chandler

Feb 02 16:38:11 <rimworlder> doing a concordance and working on a 'universe'

Feb 02 16:38:17 <NickE> Always liked the idea of a gyroscopic drive

Feb 02 16:38:33 <NickE> Interesting

Feb 02 16:38:48 <NickE> I don't think I read all of them though

Feb 02 16:38:48 <Lensman> Doing a concordance for the Rim World books? Hey, someone ought to do that for Known Space... :)

Feb 02 16:38:55 <NickE> Hehe

Feb 02 16:39:05 <rimworlder> his wife died this past october and control of the estate passed to new south wales government

Feb 02 16:39:09 <Lensman> I don't think I've read all the Grimes stories, either.

Feb 02 16:39:13 <Dan> There was a paperback copy of Draco Tavern in the bookstore when I went a couple of weeks ago. I picked it up to save as a reward for myself when I was allowed to go back to work.

Feb 02 16:39:17 <Beltminer> most of the last grimes were standard, i guessed [ didn't read them] but early alternates, and Derek Calver was a classic antihero, very jolting to a kid [me] back then after Swift

Feb 02 16:39:20 <FlyingDragon> Rim World sounds sexual.

Feb 02 16:39:21 <rimworlder> can I give a link?

Feb 02 16:39:28 <FlyingDragon> Give a wink?

Feb 02 16:39:34 <NickE> yes

Feb 02 16:39:38 <NickE> to both

Feb 02 16:39:41 <NickE> :-)

Feb 02 16:39:45 <rimworlder> www.rimworlds.com

Feb 02 16:39:57 <rimworlder> two things up there - the working concordance and my pulp mag collection

Feb 02 16:40:25 <rimworlder> I've polled a lot of australian writers and most are interested, so we're working on rights

Feb 02 16:40:56 <rimworlder> flying - rim worlds characters were sexual...

Feb 02 16:41:34 <FlyingDragon> gravity hole characters are sexual too.

Feb 02 16:41:40 <rimworlder> I thought there was a known space concordance...

Feb 02 16:41:45 <NickE> just going to check my bookshelf

Feb 02 16:41:49 <Larry> You might consider an anthology of "homage" stories: other authors writing in Chandler's universe.

Feb 02 16:41:51 <NickE> Ah that'd Be Lens here

Feb 02 16:42:09 <rimworlder> larry - that's the first stage - after we get the rights

Feb 02 16:42:46 <Beltminer> "he saw her pale nipple" in an *Ace* Double! I was shocked - and hoped for more! lol In the late 1950s/1960s start , that was racy

Feb 02 16:43:08 <rimworlder> he was definately ahead of his time, and proved it by writing it, lol

Feb 02 16:43:24 <Lensman> I had forgotten I have NESFA's /Up to the Sky in Ships/ book. A "non-Ace double" with /In and Out of Quandry/; Quandry being an olde tyme fanzine.

Feb 02 16:43:30 <Beltminer> In another one, a pair of her underwear was floating in zeegee - gasp!

Feb 02 16:43:47 * FlyingDragon wonders why her nipple was pale

Feb 02 16:43:53 <rimworlder> lensman - and the first Grimes story is in that one - Chance Encounter

Feb 02 16:43:54 <NickE> Ah, this explains why I read them so much in my teens :-)

Feb 02 16:44:02 <rimworlder> lol

Feb 02 16:44:02 <Lensman> Rimworlder: That was a joke. The KS Concordance is my project.

Feb 02 16:44:10 <NickE> Got 4 on the shelves

Feb 02 16:44:23 <rimworlder> lens - yeah, thought so. FOA on the direct connection

Feb 02 16:44:38 <Beltminer> FD, darkened room i think - he is seeing her from the corridor light

Feb 02 16:44:42 <rimworlder> lens - does it go in spurts for you too?

Feb 02 16:45:57 <rimworlder> if there are any actual results from the universe effort, I'm planning on going heavy on the art. I'd really like to see what some of the newer artists do with it

Feb 02 16:46:12 * bandersnatch has quit (Connection reset by peer)

Feb 02 16:46:29 <Beltminer> Lens, i'll have to check my shelves later re Nesfa Chandler - right!

Feb 02 16:46:40 <NickE> Hmm. The Rim Of Space is one of them (vol 1 in the Rim World series it says) but this does not appear on your page. This is a UK (Sphere Science Fiction) print

Feb 02 16:46:50 <Lensman> Rim: OH YES. Look at the "what's new" page on the IKSC. I indexed the /Neutron Star/ collection about the middle of last year. My current indexing project is /Ringworld/, and I'm only up to chapter 5. I spent all too much time on making the site look pretty, now I'm finally buckling down to prepare more actual content.

Feb 02 16:47:31 <rimworlder> nick - ?

Feb 02 16:47:55 <rimworlder> lensman - I have to get back, but I've been waiting for a house move for five months

Feb 02 16:48:02 <Beltminer> rimworlder, terric proj re homage stories/artists views! I'd love to see someone's face uplit by a malfing drive...

Feb 02 16:48:25 <rimworlder> belt - me too, lol

Feb 02 16:48:37 <rimworlder> but my wishes will eventually be tempered by budget

Feb 02 16:49:01 <NickE> Title of one of my books = The Rim of Space. Is this a UK retitle? (They did it with Gripping Hand frex)

Feb 02 16:49:19 <rimworlder> no - rim of space is a story unto itself

Feb 02 16:49:25 <Beltminer> i'm not a big horror fan but i'm thinking of the werewolf/drive malf story - brrr :) great

Feb 02 16:50:03 <Lensman> UK title for /The Gripping Hand/ is /The Moat Around Murcheson's Eye/, is that right? Which was the working title.

Feb 02 16:50:16 <NickE> Voll 2 is apparently "When The Dream Dies" I guess this must be a renamed collection?

Feb 02 16:50:27 <NickE> Lens yes

Feb 02 16:51:02 <NickE> The Rim of SPace is in chapters, not individual stories though

Feb 02 16:51:16 <rimworlder> nick - those are regular titles or alternate titles; rim is the first derek calver story - not a grimes story. when the dream dies is also known as rendezvous on a lost world

Feb 02 16:51:27 <rimworlder> rim is a novel

Feb 02 16:51:32 <NickE> Derek Calver, yes

Feb 02 16:51:39 <Lensman> "Chapters"-- Does that mean it's a fix-up novel?

Feb 02 16:51:56 <rimworlder> belt - that title is frontier of the dark, based on a short of the same title

Feb 02 16:52:00 * FlyingDragon is waiting for a new topic to make itself known

Feb 02 16:52:06 <rimworlder> sorry flying

Feb 02 16:52:20 <rimworlder> flyingD - guess you're not into chandler...?

Feb 02 16:52:24 <NickE> might be. Its a 1981 publication

Feb 02 16:53:02 <rimworlder> nicke - http://www.bertramchandler.com/covers/pages/rimofspace.html

Feb 02 16:53:33 <FlyingDragon> Only so many things one has timt to read. Chandler isn't on the list.

Feb 02 16:53:41 <rimworlder> lensmen - he wrote episodically a lot and also bridged multiple short stories for many of his novels

Feb 02 16:53:46 <Beltminer> thx rim, and oooh, i just saw your entry page at url - beautiful! [galaxy with many smaller ones pinwheeling away into infinite night...]

Feb 02 16:53:51 <NickE> Yep, it's the Sphere one down the page a bit Ta

Feb 02 16:54:07 * FlyingDragon needs to spend more time reading her Martial arts textbooks.

Feb 02 16:54:11 <rimworlder> belt - thanks, stole it from Hubble

Feb 02 16:54:15 <NickE> Oooh. My Star Courier is a Daw 1977 1st print!

Feb 02 16:54:31 <rimworlder> nick - lol

Feb 02 16:54:32 <NickE> Paperback that is

Feb 02 16:54:42 <rimworlder> daw and ace only did paperbacks

Feb 02 16:54:51 <rimworlder> UK publishers did hardbacks

Feb 02 16:55:00 <Beltminer> sorry, FD, but it's another futory - future history, so overlap here for some of us :)

Feb 02 16:55:29 <rimworlder> and a futory that's getting more and more obscure by the day

Feb 02 16:55:53 <rimworlder> lensman, are you doing yours by hand or using electronic texts?

Feb 02 16:55:55 <Lensman> Nothing whatsoever wrong with fix-up novels. Some of my favorites are fix-ups. Frex /Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen/ and /The Forever War/. I *do* wish publishers would note the name and publication of the original short stories on the copyright page, but too often they don't.

Feb 02 16:56:12 <Beltminer> Ultimo, Thule, and the antimatter suns ....

Feb 02 16:56:12 <rimworlder> they used to

Feb 02 16:57:02 <rimworlder> I've got a very cheap star map on that page. Winchell Chung is doing some volunteer work on a 3D one, pending anything happening with the universe project

Feb 02 16:57:41 <Beltminer> nod to Lens, especially if it's a retitled version, and the blurb is vague...

Feb 02 16:57:44 <rimworlder> grollor, stree, kinsolving's

Feb 02 16:58:26 <Lensman> Rim: There's no substitute for using paper copies, IMO, for the original research. Electronic copies are subject to error, or even arbitrary editing on the part of whoever scanned it. However, I do use electronic copies for text searches when I'm looking for a specific reference.

Feb 02 16:58:33 <FlyingDragon> Okay, rather than wait for a topic change, I'm going to go shopping. CU

Feb 02 16:58:42 * FlyingDragon is now known as ShoppingDragon

Feb 02 16:58:47 <NickE> Oh sorry Carol

Feb 02 16:59:02 <NickE> you know hat we're like

Feb 02 16:59:03 <Lensman> Ohhh don't get me started on retitles. The book collector's bane!

Feb 02 16:59:03 <Beltminer> in SL [Second Life] Troy McLuhan did a nearest stars within 25 Lightyears cube with the correct rgb values *in space* of each star :)

Feb 02 16:59:05 <NickE> what

Feb 02 16:59:06 <rimworlder> yeah, me too, but I've rarely talked to more than one person at a time about this, lol

Feb 02 16:59:18 <ShoppingDragon> hat's alright

Feb 02 16:59:27 <NickE> Fen eh?

Feb 02 17:00:05 <rimworlder> belt - unfortunately, with Chandler, we're talking the whole galaxy

Feb 02 17:00:16 <NickE> Larry's in the room so of cousre we bang on about some other author :-)

Feb 02 17:00:28 <rimworlder> sorry - but he did make a good suggestion

Feb 02 17:00:36 <NickE> seriously, no offence Larry!

Feb 02 17:00:47 <Beltminer> hey, back to before i got here, and the possible computer game - i tend to dread the idea after Tsunamio's Ringworld PC game <shudder>

Feb 02 17:01:27 <Dan> That too was mentioned.

Feb 02 17:01:27 <NickE> I never managed to get it to run properly....but that was on a Windows ME machine :-)

Feb 02 17:01:51 <Larry> no offense, of course. I loved Chandler's stories too. There's magic in his notion of a precessing drive that can take you anywhere at all.

Feb 02 17:01:59 <Lensman> Paul Chafe sent me a star chart database for use in researching a KS star map. I confess I haven't even looked at it yet, tho. Same problem as with wanting the 1969 star catalog-- is current, up-to-date data really relevant for stories written 30-40 years ago?

Feb 02 17:02:02 <NickE> Oh indeed

Feb 02 17:02:08 <Beltminer> NickE, i bet Larry's read at least some of the classic earlier Chandler. Eery sf far from the galactic core...

Feb 02 17:02:18 <NickE> hehe

Feb 02 17:02:19 <rimworlder> larry - thanks for letting me off the hook

Feb 02 17:02:28 <Lensman> Yah, the idea of a space drive actually being a time machine-- novel and clever!

Feb 02 17:02:52 <NickE> <ahem> tardis <ahhem>

Feb 02 17:03:00 <Dan> LOL!

Feb 02 17:03:16 <NickE> Think he got there first tho'

Feb 02 17:03:33 <Beltminer> nod to Larry - i never knew if the latest story would be sf, fantasy, or horror, with that tanjing drive running

Feb 02 17:03:35 <rimworlder> nick - true, but I think that's time machine/space drive, versus Chandler's space drive/time machine

Feb 02 17:03:42 <Lensman> Re tardis-- But I'm talking about science fiction, not science fantasy!

Feb 02 17:03:56 <NickE> oh be pedantic then :-)

Feb 02 17:04:06 <Dan> Doctor Who fans seem to get short shrift.

Feb 02 17:04:17 <Lensman> And yah, Chandler got there first.

Feb 02 17:04:20 <rimworlder> I used to make my cats dance to the intro music

Feb 02 17:04:37 <Larry> Chandler, then tardis, I think.

Feb 02 17:04:42 <Lensman> I have friends who are rabid Dr. Who fans. Never got into it, myself.

Feb 02 17:04:45 <NickE> Ooo Kay.Got film of that? :-)

Feb 02 17:05:02 <NickE> Whovians are an odd breed sometimes

Feb 02 17:05:11 <Dan> Indeed we are.

Feb 02 17:05:13 <rimworlder> nick - I made them dance - you know, held up their forelegs and moved them around - no training required

Feb 02 17:05:19 <NickE> heh

Feb 02 17:05:22 <Beltminer> Again, as a kid, seeing Derek Calver remember throwing rocks at an alien buglike lifeform was shocking and rawer than most sf protagonists back then.

Feb 02 17:05:25 <Lensman> Rim: Yah, you ought to film them. The next viral video...

Feb 02 17:05:34 <NickE> cool

Feb 02 17:05:38 <rimworlder> lol - they're both dead, lol

Feb 02 17:05:52 <NickE> aw

Feb 02 17:06:01 <rimworlder> that would really be a hit - dancing dead cats

Feb 02 17:06:07 <Lensman> Sorry.

Feb 02 17:06:09 <NickE> quite a while ago then

Feb 02 17:06:17 <rimworlder> its a while ago and I had them for almost 20 years, no biggie

Feb 02 17:06:32 <Beltminer> NickE, saying "Think he got there first" with time machines is hilarious

Feb 02 17:06:50 <Lensman> Wells might object...

Feb 02 17:06:51 <NickE> yeah, could be a problem with claiming that -)

Feb 02 17:08:01 <Lensman> Reminds me of the bit in HHGTTG, where a company swipes another company's idea, then goes back in time and sues the original company for infringement...

Feb 02 17:08:11 <Beltminer> so rimworlder, they turned out not to be descended from Schrodingers' cat?

Feb 02 17:08:22 <NickE> It was a breakfast cereal company

Feb 02 17:08:34 <rimworlder> beltminer - all cats are just instantiations of schroedingers

Feb 02 17:08:49 <Lensman> Nick: Thanx.

Feb 02 17:09:15 <Beltminer> but NickE, i didnt mean Wells was first, but that a true time machine owner *can* be first!

Feb 02 17:09:42 <Lensman> BM: Yah we got it, I was just being pedantic.

Feb 02 17:09:42 <NickE> exactly

Feb 02 17:09:51 <Dan> The cats we have now have gotten into the habit of watching TV with us. Oddest thing I seen is a cat, stretched out on the floor, watching a Harry Potter movie and not looking away from the TV screen for an instant.

Feb 02 17:10:05 <Beltminer> lol, k, Lens

Feb 02 17:10:25 <rimworlder> dan - they do that. but what's really creepy is when all the cats stare at the same nothing

Feb 02 17:10:42 <Lensman> Just messin' with ya.

Feb 02 17:10:54 <rimworlder> yep - 'stupid humans - we made them look'

Feb 02 17:11:05 <Dan> :)

Feb 02 17:11:33 <rimworlder> I think my cats' nickname for me is monkeyboy

Feb 02 17:11:54 <Lensman> Is your cat named Chmeee?

Feb 02 17:12:07 <rimworlder> no, but I did have one named C'mell

Feb 02 17:12:11 <Beltminer> rimworlder, "nothing"? there looking at one of lloolbee's works shown over tv

Feb 02 17:12:25 <rimworlder> lol could be

Feb 02 17:12:27 <Dan> The Ballad of Lost C'mell.

Feb 02 17:12:47 <rimworlder> Dan - I'd have bought HER, screw the rest of the planet and the stamp

Feb 02 17:13:25 <Beltminer> Tony Lewis had Captain Wow among others of his cats, i recall

Feb 02 17:13:35 <Dan> Yeah, but she of had a far shorter live on Noraustrilla.

Feb 02 17:13:56 <Beltminer> big nod to rim re C'Mell

Feb 02 17:14:10 <Dan> Typo-demon, begone!

Feb 02 17:14:11 <rimworlder> true, but that's just because stroon was outlawed for underpeople and if I'm buying the planet, I can afford to get that little rule bent too

Feb 02 17:14:47 <Beltminer> no, he could buy Old Earth, not Norstrilia...

Feb 02 17:15:07 <rimworlder> correct - but he could afford to do that because he controlled all of the stroon from Norstrilia

Feb 02 17:15:11 <Beltminer> i bet he'd have to choose exile

Feb 02 17:15:43 <Dan> Fandom must be fractal in nature. So big and diverse, but wrapped into such a small space.

Feb 02 17:15:59 <Beltminer> but the govt wouldnt let him try to change , a precedent...

Feb 02 17:16:33 <rimworlder> beltminer - oh heck, its fanfic, I can get away with whatever I want to

Feb 02 17:16:46 <Lensman> Well, since fandom has spread to the Internet... practially taken it over... I'm not sure we're that "small" anymore.

Feb 02 17:17:15 <rimworlder> lensman - but no one studies history anymore, so they're all going to think they invented it

Feb 02 17:17:17 <Beltminer> now there's a backstory "Norstrilian govt reserves of stroon" - EconoWars trilogy!

Feb 02 17:17:55 <Beltminer> aha, quite true rimw re fanfic

Feb 02 17:18:20 <rimworlder> beltminer, that would be a contemporary thriller; they're already controlling access to "longevity"

Feb 02 17:18:42 <rimworlder> in terms of insurance costs

Feb 02 17:19:07 * vilstef (~vilstef@ has joined #knownspace

Feb 02 17:19:13 <Dan> Lens, I was thinking more of the interconnectedness of all the folks in fandom that I've met. So many different interests, but so many in common as well.

Feb 02 17:19:20 <rimworlder> lensman to get back to concordances - I prefer by hand also

Feb 02 17:19:30 <vilstef> Hi everyone

Feb 02 17:19:32 <rimworlder> HI

Feb 02 17:19:42 <Lensman> RM: Sadly true. I tried to educate members of my local SF club in fan history when I was editor of the club newszine, by running a regular column of articles from fan history. One of the two club members who'd been in the club from the start complained he was tired of reading about stuff that happened back in the thirties. Humph, Philistine!

Feb 02 17:19:57 <Beltminer> Lens, Dan, fractal and fractious, but if on internet, in some ways, that counts as even smaller, in old sense of local community feel

Feb 02 17:20:35 <Beltminer> to fandom, but farmore fandoms inhabiting overlapping bodies

Feb 02 17:20:45 <rimworlder> LM and its extending to reading choices as well. I'm constantly getting annoyed by people who disregard "anything pre 1965" as being "dated"

Feb 02 17:21:25 <rimworlder> so what's the protocol for asking Larry a question?

Feb 02 17:21:47 <rimworlder> any taboo subjects?

Feb 02 17:21:50 <Dan> Type it and hit enter usually works.

Feb 02 17:21:54 <rimworlder> lol

Feb 02 17:22:03 <rimworlder> I knew I'd get at least one answer like that

Feb 02 17:22:20 <Beltminer> i'm going to have probs recommending James H. Scmitz's free downloads and Baen/Kindle editions in my new blog for that reason- pre1970s!

Feb 02 17:22:25 <Lensman> I was shocked when the local SF book discussion did /The War of the Worlds/, and several people complained about the wordy, florid Victorian writing style. What, did these people never read Sherlock Holmes when they were young? Goodness. Philistines, again.

Feb 02 17:22:27 <NickE> Oh Hi Gene

Feb 02 17:22:44 <NickE> (thst right isnt it?)

Feb 02 17:22:49 <vilstef> Hi Nick

Feb 02 17:23:06 <vilstef> Yes it is

Feb 02 17:23:20 <Larry> I'm dozing off. I'd better quit. Fare you well, all.

Feb 02 17:23:21 <NickE> yay, brain not mush yet :-)

Feb 02 17:23:33 <rimworlder> Larry - if I get the chandler universe thing off the ground (and presuming that all legal stuff is handled correctly) would you be interested in participating?

Feb 02 17:23:34 <NickE> Night Larry, ta for stopping by

Feb 02 17:23:38 <Lensman> Well, I think the first time I said something like "Larry, may I ask you about XXX", but we don't stand on ceremony here.

Feb 02 17:23:40 <Dan> Thanks for visiting, Larry.

Feb 02 17:23:43 <rimworlder> dang!

Feb 02 17:23:46 <rimworlder> nite nite

Feb 02 17:23:58 <NickE> well Night for me at least

Feb 02 17:23:59 <Lensman> Bye Larry.

Feb 02 17:24:08 <vilstef> Goodnight Larry

Feb 02 17:24:10 <Beltminer> and dont get me started on recommeding Murray Leinster as good fun adventure preKeith Laumer styhle [he's got plenty of eBooks now, so i'm going to push him]

Feb 02 17:24:16 <Beltminer> http://paradoxolbers.wordpress.com/

Feb 02 17:24:23 <Beltminer> bye Larry!

Feb 02 17:24:40 <rimworlder> beltminer - you should stay away from Williamson and Asimov too...

Feb 02 17:24:51 <NickE> Looking fwd to JoW in August

Feb 02 17:24:53 * Larry has quit (Quit: *g0ne*)

Feb 02 17:25:04 <vilstef> I think it's very good Leinster is getting some recognition after a long time in the shadows.

Feb 02 17:26:15 <rimworlder> anyone here on the east coast?

Feb 02 17:26:17 <Beltminer> i've been shocked by who is and who is not using ebooks for their sf works - long ways to go

Feb 02 17:26:31 <Beltminer> Boston, here

Feb 02 17:26:35 <rimworlder> going to Boskone?

Feb 02 17:26:37 <Dan> I'm near Atlanta.

Feb 02 17:26:42 <Beltminer> good vilstef

Feb 02 17:26:52 <rimworlder> I'm in NE fl;orida and moving to new hampshire this friday

Feb 02 17:27:14 <Beltminer> thinking about it - have't congone in a long time

Feb 02 17:27:27 <rimworlder> it will be my first in 20+ years

Feb 02 17:27:40 <Lensman> BM just FYI we're here the first Saturday of every month. Larry doesn't always drop in but he often does.

Feb 02 17:28:39 <rimworlder> BM - send me an email (on the site) if you decide to go

Feb 02 17:28:44 <Beltminer> noted Lensman, thx again

Feb 02 17:28:50 <NickE> brb

Feb 02 17:29:13 <Beltminer> here's my quick summary of ebook authors in sf a draft http://paradoxolbers.wordpress.com/recommended-sf/

Feb 02 17:29:28 <Dan> I've been trying to become a regular at one con in Tennessee, but last year was a series of misfortunes for my wife and I. We did make the con, but most of the rest of the year was bad.

Feb 02 17:29:44 <Beltminer> good timing re weather rimw

Feb 02 17:30:02 <vilstef> I'm just glad you got thru the car wreck, Dan!

Feb 02 17:30:20 <Beltminer> sorry to hear that Dan. Tanj!

Feb 02 17:30:34 <Dan> Us too, but we'll both be glad when I can go back to work.

Feb 02 17:31:04 <NickE> Still recovering well I hope Dan

Feb 02 17:31:15 <Beltminer> <double take> car wreck! and not in a "Safe at any Speed" vehicle, uh-oh

Feb 02 17:31:38 <rimworlder> dan - sorry to hear about that

Feb 02 17:31:50 <rimworlder> beltminer - rosinante - great stuff

Feb 02 17:32:03 <vilstef> No luxury of having a crash web. Just 20th century tech.

Feb 02 17:32:04 <Dan> Yes, recovering too slowly for the doctor's likes, but I'm not in any pain now.

Feb 02 17:32:10 <rimworlder> I got a couple of original drawings from Alexis years ago

Feb 02 17:32:17 <NickE> well thats something

Feb 02 17:32:23 <rimworlder> brb

Feb 02 17:32:39 <NickE> too slowly for you and Lynn too I'm betting :-/

Feb 02 17:33:15 <Dan> Yeah, that's true. She's still being very protective of me.

Feb 02 17:33:49 * EML (~EML@ has joined #knownspace

Feb 02 17:33:57 <vilstef> It was really a shocking thing to hear about.

Feb 02 17:34:04 <Dan> Hello, Ed. Just missed Larry again.

Feb 02 17:34:12 <EML> Hi, all. How's life, Known Space, and everything?

Feb 02 17:34:18 <NickE> ED! You done it agin. Larry left not 10 mins past! :-)

Feb 02 17:34:37 <EML> You'd think we planned it, wouldn't you?

Feb 02 17:34:38 <Beltminer> well, of course Dan, u're trying to recover in a one-gee field, not Confinement Asteroid

Feb 02 17:34:46 <vilstef> I got here just in time for him to leave!

Feb 02 17:35:04 <EML> Did Larry have anything interesting to say?

Feb 02 17:35:22 <NickE> Finally got round to reading FoW. Was coolness, especially towards the end with some truly neat and suspensful writing

Feb 02 17:35:30 <Beltminer> *another* Citizens' conspiracy revealed!

Feb 02 17:35:40 <Lensman> Ed: Well yes, he admitted you and he are the same person. As he pointed out, we've never seen you both at the same time. :)

Feb 02 17:35:40 <EML> Thanks, Nick.

Feb 02 17:35:50 <Dan> Well, that kid that rear-ended us probably still doesn't understand how much the wreck cost us. I'm sure he knows about the money he cost us, but the rest? I doubt he has a clue.

Feb 02 17:35:51 <EML> LOL

Feb 02 17:36:52 <NickE> Probably right. Someone that careless clearly hasn't a clue

Feb 02 17:37:09 <EML> Rear-ended? Ugh. Is everyone all right?

Feb 02 17:37:15 <rimworlder> the earlier disturbance was the dog; I need to take him out for a bit. see you all later and thanks for the Chandler boost

Feb 02 17:37:19 * rimworlder has quit (Quit: *g0ne*)

Feb 02 17:37:19 <Lensman> Larry also said he's involved in producing a computer game, "Free Fall", set entirely within Sol system, using real science except for artificial gravity. ("Free Fall" has artificial gravity? Isn't that an oxymoron?)

Feb 02 17:37:38 <NickE> heh

Feb 02 17:37:50 <Beltminer> nod to Dan & NickE - not until he has his mobility taken away himself, likely

Feb 02 17:37:52 <Lensman> But Larry doesn't know if the game will actually be produced.

Feb 02 17:37:54 <Dan> Speaking of clues, I was just handed one. I need to drive up to the corner store for a few minutes and pick up a few things for this evening. I'll be back at the keyboard in less than half an hour.

Feb 02 17:38:05 <EML> I'm constantly amazed at how many irons Larry has in the fire.

Feb 02 17:38:12 <NickE> K Dan

Feb 02 17:38:22 <NickE> restless mind?

Feb 02 17:38:27 * Dan is now known as Dan_Away

Feb 02 17:38:34 <NickE> Not complaining!

Feb 02 17:38:53 <Lensman> Ed: Indeed, I asked him what else we could expect from the "Niven factory"!

Feb 02 17:39:07 <Beltminer> Ed, i bet Larry figures that since some wont pan out ....

Feb 02 17:39:09 <NickE> We always ask him *that* :-)

Feb 02 17:39:28 <Beltminer> he should keep adding new irons

Feb 02 17:39:41 <EML> Well, he and I ARE playing with something new ...

Feb 02 17:39:49 <vilstef> He's a master of irony. . .

Feb 02 17:39:51 <Lensman> And?

Feb 02 17:40:18 <Beltminer> oh no, i'm not falling for that

Feb 02 17:40:24 <EML> I'll say only there may be life beyond JUGGLER.

Feb 02 17:40:33 <NickE> Ho yuss!

Feb 02 17:40:42 <NickE> Alrighty!

Feb 02 17:40:53 <Beltminer> i just Nov log, and now know Ed famed for tease sentences...

Feb 02 17:41:04 <Lensman> Hoorah!

Feb 02 17:41:13 <EML> I'm guessing I now know who preordered JUGGLER from Amazon :-)

Feb 02 17:41:18 <Beltminer> oh well, i change my mind! yay!

Feb 02 17:42:31 <EML> Incidentally, I'm here just for a few minutes. Out of town company (a good thing).

Feb 02 17:43:33 <NickE> Well good to "see" you anyway. Always nice to touch base

Feb 02 17:43:48 <NickE> So, any more you can let slip?

Feb 02 17:43:49 <Lensman> Well, while you're here... I asked Larry about this passage from /Ringworld/: [Nessus said] "What you must know is that population control is very difficult for us. There are only two ways for one of us to avoid becoming a parent. One is major surgery. The other is total abstinence from sexual congress."

Feb 02 17:44:02 <Beltminer> [i only learned of Juggler pub date today -1st visit here, so preordering *tomorrow* :)

Feb 02 17:44:03 <NickE> Oh yes

Feb 02 17:44:28 <Lensman> And Larry said you would explain why this doesn't contradict what's in FOW. :D

Feb 02 17:44:54 <Beltminer> ...in 1000 words or more

Feb 02 17:45:00 <NickE> I said that single Citezens probably wouldnt be able to mate with a companion because of the wrong cues

Feb 02 17:45:15 <EML> I don't think there IS a comflict with FOW. You never see the act done in FLEET (we kept it PG-rated).

Feb 02 17:45:27 <NickE> plus cultural taboo

Feb 02 17:45:28 <Lensman> Nick: Oh, don't let Ed off the hook that easily!

Feb 02 17:45:52 <Beltminer> PG? Peirin-Grog rated???

Feb 02 17:45:57 <NickE> LOL

Feb 02 17:46:00 <EML> I'm still confoosed what hook I'm supposedly ON?

Feb 02 17:46:14 <NickE> spoon feed us more teasers :-_)

Feb 02 17:46:37 <NickE> I wanna read JoW a *lot*

Feb 02 17:46:47 <NickE> and what might follow!

Feb 02 17:46:52 <EML> ANYway, about Puppeteer sex, Larry specifically has chosen to keep it mysterious.

Feb 02 17:47:01 <vilstef> I'm going to get out the ouji board and I Ching for a posthumus Phil Dick novel: Do Androids Dream of Puppeteer Sex

Feb 02 17:47:02 <NickE> he said as much

Feb 02 17:47:09 <NickE> LOL!

Feb 02 17:47:30 <EML> Nick: we're writing as fast as we can ;-)

Feb 02 17:47:36 <Beltminer> at present rate of teasers, we'll have enuf info to extrapolate the rest by ... two weeks after publication! <whacking ai puter>

Feb 02 17:47:41 <NickE> Good! heh :-)

Feb 02 17:48:28 <NickE> Really glad this has been a very productive partnership

Feb 02 17:48:55 <EML> Juggler is in the can. We reviewed copy edits several weeks ago. JUGGLER should be out in August unless the publisher decides another time is more opportune (as he delayed FLEET by a month).

Feb 02 17:49:13 <NickE> here's hoping

Feb 02 17:49:40 <Lensman> Ed: Sorry, the question is: Why can't Puppeteers have sex with Companions individually, and thus avoid pregnancy w/o surgery?

Feb 02 17:49:51 <Beltminer> get real - it's not the *publisher's* decision

Feb 02 17:50:09 <Beltminer> ...it's the ARM's cultural review branch

Feb 02 17:50:13 <Lensman> Nick is spoiling all the fun. :(

Feb 02 17:50:34 <EML> Two Citizens to make an embryo, implanted into a Companion. Companions are a separate species.

Feb 02 17:50:37 <NickE> :-P

Feb 02 17:50:39 <vilstef> We're supposed to get spoilers from Ed y'know.

Feb 02 17:50:57 <NickE> See, ya have to

Feb 02 17:51:00 <NickE> now

Feb 02 17:51:05 <EML> Nope -- I don't do spoilers. I do TEASERS.

Feb 02 17:51:13 <NickE> Well, that too

Feb 02 17:51:14 <Lensman> Yah well Ed already dropped a HUGE hint about what might follow JOW, and I'm manfully refraining from asking if that's what it's about. Honestly, I'd rather not know anything about a new KS story except that it *is* a new KS story.

Feb 02 17:51:21 <vilstef> Well Tease then, :)

Feb 02 17:51:35 <NickE> I can live with more KS definitely

Feb 02 17:51:47 <NickE> missed it

Feb 02 17:52:02 <NickE> FoW satisfied a long held need there

Feb 02 17:52:11 <EML> Lens: I don't remember having dropped a hunt for post-JUGGLER. I planned to leave ot Larry announcing (or not) what it's about.

Feb 02 17:52:13 <Beltminer> <watching Ed do The Dance of a Thousand Typewriter Ribbons, before us...>

Feb 02 17:52:25 <EML> LOL

Feb 02 17:52:37 <NickE> <grin>

Feb 02 17:52:57 <vilstef> Better than doing a Don Martin. . .

Feb 02 17:53:06 <Beltminer> chuckle

Feb 02 17:53:12 <vilstef> And dropping 13 stories. . .

Feb 02 17:54:11 <EML> a side note: my first Asimov story just appeared in the February ish (my short fiction is usually in Analog and Baen's Iniverse)

Feb 02 17:54:38 <vilstef> Congratulations on the sale.

Feb 02 17:54:58 <EML> thanks. always nice to appear in a new venue.

Feb 02 17:55:20 <Beltminer> <high-five> Multivac, serve that author a drink!

Feb 02 17:55:53 <EML> So: Larry said nothing else about stuff in the pipeline?

Feb 02 17:56:32 * Dan_Away is now known as Dan

Feb 02 17:56:47 <Dan> Ah, that didn't take long.

Feb 02 17:57:03 <Beltminer> <hastily covering chatlog> of course he did! Ringworld's Granchildren sounds intriguing!

Feb 02 17:57:14 <vilstef> welcome back no longer Dan Away

Feb 02 17:57:21 <NickE> wb

Feb 02 17:57:26 <Beltminer> wb

Feb 02 17:57:34 <Lensman> No, Larry didn't say anything else about forthcoming stuff. I asked who's doing the cover for /Inferno II/ but he didn't answer.

Feb 02 17:57:46 <Dan> I thought that one was titled "Ringworld's Red-Headed Step-Child"

Feb 02 17:57:53 <NickE> He said he didn't know

Feb 02 17:58:01 <Lensman> In RE, Hindmost says: "We have two kinds of male, Louis. My kind implants its sperm in the female's flesh, and Nessus's kind implants its egg in the female with a most similar organ."

Feb 02 17:58:02 <EML> the cover for JUGGLER is *great*. I imagine it'll show up soon on Amazon.

Feb 02 17:58:05 <Dan> :)

Feb 02 17:58:07 <Beltminer> Dan, that's the mag serial title

Feb 02 17:59:00 <Dan> Heh.

Feb 02 17:59:19 <Lensman> Now if the male actually implants sperm in the female Puppeteer (not the Companion) and fertilization occurs inside the female, who later implants the embryo in the Companion, then that makes more sense biologically (IMO) and also fits with what Nessus said. But it seems to contradict what Hindmost said.

Feb 02 17:59:25 <EML> Lens: RE never uses the Citizen/Companion terminology. Both "males" are Citizens, and both needed. The "female" is a Companion.

Feb 02 18:00:22 <Dan> If I were the begging kind, I'd start off with a request that Ed and Larry sent my e-zine a sample chapter to post as part of the publicity rush.

Feb 02 18:00:26 <Lensman> Ed: Yes. The question is: Does the male Puppeteer implant sperm in the female Puppeteer, or directly into the Companion as Hindmost says?

Feb 02 18:00:31 <EML> As to the detailed mechanics: I don't foresee Larry ever spelling out "flange A into slot B."

Feb 02 18:01:30 <EML> Dan: we leave publicity to the publisher.

Feb 02 18:01:51 <Dan> I know. I just miss doing reviews sometimes.

Feb 02 18:01:57 <vilstef> Is there a new oath for KS? Flangeit, rhymes with Tanjit. . .

Feb 02 18:02:29 <EML> Dan: what IS your zine?

Feb 02 18:03:02 <Beltminer> lol, vilstef

Feb 02 18:03:29 <Dan> Although by the time I stopped doing reviews, I'd gotten to the point of saying things like "this is the best by ** so far, rush out and buy a copy!" for nearly every book I was sent.

Feb 02 18:03:51 <EML> Never tell a Puppeteer to "stuff it."

Feb 02 18:03:59 <vilstef> LOL!

Feb 02 18:04:03 <Lensman> I do wonder how reviewers can come up with something new to say about every book.

Feb 02 18:04:10 <Beltminer> guffaw!

Feb 02 18:04:27 <Dan> Aphelion Webzine, Ed. Mostly an amateur writer's workshop sort of thing.

Feb 02 18:04:43 <vilstef> Variants of "this book's covers are too far apart. . "

Feb 02 18:04:52 <Lensman> LOL!

Feb 02 18:04:54 <Dan> LOL!

Feb 02 18:05:12 * EML has quit (Quit: *g0ne*)

Feb 02 18:05:15 <Lensman> Sounds like a complaint I often have about modern publications...

Feb 02 18:05:15 * EML (~EML@ has joined #knownspace

Feb 02 18:05:34 <Dan> Nah, if I didn't like a book, I refused to write a negative review. I just e-mailed the sender and told them what I didn't like about it.

Feb 02 18:05:50 <EML> oops -- I lost the my screen. sorry if I don't respond to something.

Feb 02 18:06:13 <Dan> Stepped out for a smoke, Ed? :)

Feb 02 18:06:38 <vilstef> Well his computer did

Feb 02 18:06:44 <Lensman> Ed: You have a private message.

Feb 02 18:06:50 <EML> pilot error <blush.

Feb 02 18:07:16 <Dan> Don't feel bad. Larry did the same thing earlier.

Feb 02 18:07:23 <Lensman> AHA! Larry did that too-- proof you and he are one and the same!

Feb 02 18:08:00 <NickE> heh. brb

Feb 02 18:08:02 <EML> Lens: an email? It hasn't shown up yet.

Feb 02 18:08:20 <vilstef> Shouldn't Larry's collaborator & or alter-ego be named Red Herring then?

Feb 02 18:08:49 <Dan> Too many people would think that was Frank Gasperik. :)

Feb 02 18:08:54 <Lensman> No, private message here. If you're using mIRC, at the top of the screen you should see a blinking square.

Feb 02 18:09:14 <Lensman> But Red Herring would be much too obvious!

Feb 02 18:09:15 <EML> I'm using the Java client.

Feb 02 18:09:36 <vilstef> Whitey Tuna?

Feb 02 18:09:43 <EML> I've gotten my marching orders -- I'll be outta here ina couple more minutes.

Feb 02 18:09:43 <Dan> LOL

Feb 02 18:10:29 <EML> What if Larry & I are *two* and the same?

Feb 02 18:10:34 <vilstef> Blue Marlin? This fish talk is making me hungry. . .

Feb 02 18:10:35 <Lensman> Translate it into some other language, like Ann Rice --> A.N. Roquelaure

Feb 02 18:10:53 <Dan> Two bodies with a single mind?

Feb 02 18:11:01 <Lensman> Ed: Then your pictures should look a lot more similar...

Feb 02 18:11:18 <vilstef> Larry and Darryl and his other brother Darrel?

Feb 02 18:11:24 <Dan> Yep.

Feb 02 18:12:20 <EML> funniest line EVER on Newhart: Larry describing something as "Scarcer than a blank piece of paper at Steven King's house."

Feb 02 18:12:24 <Lensman> Rouge Achovy.

Feb 02 18:12:31 <Dan> LOL

Feb 02 18:12:36 <vilstef> LOL!

Feb 02 18:12:44 <Lensman> LOL indeed!

Feb 02 18:13:08 <vilstef> That cousin, Red Snapper or maybe King Crabb.

Feb 02 18:13:10 <Dan> Now *that's* a writer whose work I've had to give up.

Feb 02 18:13:29 <EML> Something seems fishy. I'm getting out of here. Maybe next month ...

Feb 02 18:13:48 <Lensman> Ah! Rouge Sardine! Yah, that's it.

Feb 02 18:14:00 <vilstef> Gonna clam outta here?

Feb 02 18:14:00 <Dan> After a few Steven King books, I decided that I'd rather sleep at night than keep reading his stuff.

Feb 02 18:14:32 <Lensman> None usable as a cure for insomnia, you say? :)

Feb 02 18:14:42 <Dan> Got other fish to fry?

Feb 02 18:14:55 <vilstef> After reading Salem's Lot a friend of mine slept with a pistol under his pillow for over a month

Feb 02 18:15:26 * EML has quit (Quit: *g0ne*)

Feb 02 18:15:49 <Dan> Lens, I've found that my mind can generate enough bad dreams without having to feed it Steven King novels as well.

Feb 02 18:15:54 <vilstef> Guess ed had to cut bail elsewhere.

Feb 02 18:16:15 <vilstef> cut bait, oops

Feb 02 18:16:22 <Dan> That was cruel, Chum.

Feb 02 18:16:34 <Lensman> Hmmm. Well I've never read any King, but no horror I've ever read, like Lovecraft, has ever kept me up at night. But that's probably just me. I can only remember a couple of nightmares inspired by horror movies, in my entire life.

Feb 02 18:17:27 <Dan> I have gone the opposite route and used some of my nightmares as scenes in my own stories.

Feb 02 18:17:29 <Lensman> My nightmares are almost invaribly those in which everything seems normal except something is horribly wrong. Like being naked in church, that sort of thing.

Feb 02 18:17:35 <Beltminer> lucky Lens, i'd remember a horror movie in my dreams that night...

Feb 02 18:18:30 <Beltminer> and King , especially in a short story, scares me a lot

Feb 02 18:18:53 <Beltminer> partly cause i dont read horror elsewise

Feb 02 18:19:16 <Beltminer> Dan, good use of lemons :)(

Feb 02 18:19:19 <Lensman> I'm just not much of a horror fan.

Feb 02 18:19:46 <Beltminer> same, Lens

Feb 02 18:19:55 <Dan> When it comes to horror, I find myself avoiding every writer but Lovecraft, these days.

Feb 02 18:20:14 <Beltminer> 1.5 x 10^12th is horror enuf

Feb 02 18:20:51 <Lensman> I enjoyed /Dracula/ too. But then, I

Feb 02 18:20:52 <Beltminer> i'm very squeamish

Feb 02 18:21:04 <Lensman> I'm "into" Victorian writing.

Feb 02 18:21:32 <Lensman> My problem is just the opposite; I find most horror quite boring.

Feb 02 18:21:54 <Dan> Oddly enough, I don't think of Dracula or Frankenstein as horror.

Feb 02 18:22:03 <Beltminer> the 3 of us span the spectrum re horro

Feb 02 18:22:27 <Lensman> I don't really consider /Frankenstein/ horror, either. Altho the movies were.

Feb 02 18:22:29 <vilstef> Most horrors storys push the same buttons and have little imagination. Just not interesting enough to invest time into.

Feb 02 18:22:41 <Dan> I agree.

Feb 02 18:22:47 <Beltminer> nod

Feb 02 18:23:18 <NickE> Dracula, bloody glory hound

Feb 02 18:23:22 <Dan> And if I want to read about serial killers or the like, I have Crime Library bookmarked.

Feb 02 18:23:35 <NickE> sorry, bit of Spike (vamp) channeling there

Feb 02 18:24:02 <vilstef> What happened to Captain Crunch, anyway? Oh, not cereal killer. . .

Feb 02 18:24:39 <Beltminer> you flake!

Feb 02 18:24:45 <NickE> (latest BBtL podcast out. I actually use that very phrase :-)

Feb 02 18:25:15 <vilstef> More like rolled oats actually.

Feb 02 18:25:24 <Lensman> Interesting that the central them of the Frankenstein movie, which has become a cultural cliche, of the doctor creating the monster from parts of dead bodies, animated with lightning, is completely contrary to the novel.

Feb 02 18:25:28 <Beltminer> grinning at vil

Feb 02 18:25:42 <Lensman> Shockingly, even /The Science Fiction Encyclopedia/ confuses the two!

Feb 02 18:25:54 <NickE> yep. Frankenstein is a great novel

Feb 02 18:26:04 <NickE> Nothing like the films

Feb 02 18:26:20 <NickE> Which have been fun often

Feb 02 18:26:29 <NickE> but not like the book

Feb 02 18:26:46 <vilstef> The Mammoth Book of Frankenstien stories has lots of interesting takes on the whole thing btw.

Feb 02 18:27:24 <Lensman> Pretty corny, actually. (I believe the #1 ingredient in Cap'n Crunch is corn meal?)

Feb 02 18:28:20 <vilstef> How about a nice serving of catfish crunch? I think I can wait.

Feb 02 18:29:28 <Dan> I might get my Redneck License revokes for saying this, but I can't stand catfish.

Feb 02 18:29:37 <Lensman> I view the novel as a gothic in which the supernatural element has been replaced with science (or pseudo-science). It has the central Faustian theme of man meddling in things which are God's province... very Gothic. Some consider /Frankenstein/ to be the first SF novel, but I do not.

Feb 02 18:30:52 <Dan> Didn't Larry point out that The Devine Comedy was probably the first SF novel? Well, trilogy actually, but...

Feb 02 18:31:01 <Lensman> I used to enjoy catfish when I was young. My tastes have changed as I've gotten older, more than once. I don't care for fish these days, except oddly enuff Long John Silver's breaded fish.

Feb 02 18:31:06 <vilstef> One of the few Aldiss novels I've really enjoyed is Frankenstein Unbound.

Feb 02 18:31:34 <Dan> Have you seen the Roger Corman movie of that novel?

Feb 02 18:31:38 <Lensman> Dan: More than that, he claims it's the first *hard* SF! Well he's entitled to his opinion, of course.

Feb 02 18:33:13 <vilstef> Corman did a novel of Frankenstein Unbound?

Feb 02 18:33:16 <Lensman> Personally, I think Jules Verne wrote the first hard SF.

Feb 02 18:33:34 <Dan> I have a copy of the movie, but I've yet to watch it. Frankenstein Unbound, I mean. I've read Devine Comedy, but I've forgotten everything except a few parts of Inferno.

Feb 02 18:33:57 <Dan> Corman did a movie of Frankenstein Unbound.

Feb 02 18:34:00 <vilstef> Movie I meant, have to look into that.

Feb 02 18:34:04 <Lensman> I tried to read Dante's /Inferno/. Didn't get very far.

Feb 02 18:34:27 <Beltminer> same here, re Dante

Feb 02 18:34:42 <vilstef> Most translations I've read of Dante are a pretty hard read.

Feb 02 18:35:04 <Lensman> It's like /Pilgrim's Progress/. How long can you stand being preached at?

Feb 02 18:35:37 <Dan> Yeah, I ran across a VHS copy of Corman's movie years ago. I'd read the book, so I bought the movie. Yet I've never pulled it off the shelf and watched it.

Feb 02 18:35:54 <vilstef> My tolerance for being preached at is extremely low, I'm sure it's the same with most of us here.

Feb 02 18:36:19 <Lensman> I tried to read a translation which tried to present the "feel" of the original, by rhyming every second line. Obviously that puts some constraints on a free translation.

Feb 02 18:36:41 <Lensman> vil: Yah, that's my point.

Feb 02 18:37:57 <Dan> My High School library had a copy of Devine Comedy. I'd already gone through all the SF after a couple of years, so I checked it out. Slow reading, but loaded with references to different mythologies that I'd read in Grade School.

Feb 02 18:37:58 <vilstef> And it gets worse as I age. I was curmudgeonly when I was 12

Feb 02 18:38:19 <Lensman> As I understand, the original rhymes every line, but apparently in Italian that's easy.

Feb 02 18:39:03 <vilstef> Rhyming in French and Italian is much easier than English I've heard.

Feb 02 18:40:14 <Lensman> In fact, I remember reading *of* an English translation in which every line was rhymed. The reviewer thought that was a mistake; it puts way too many constraints on the translator.

Feb 02 18:40:18 <Dan> You could be right. I'd have to ask my wife about that. Her British schooling exposed her to far many more languages than my American education.

Feb 02 18:41:07 <Lensman> Well... every noun in Italian ends in a vowel, is that right? Or did I just expose my ignorance?

Feb 02 18:41:28 <Dan> If so, I'm right there with you, Lens.

Feb 02 18:41:38 <Beltminer> this brings to mind a reviewer admiring Michael kandel'ls translation of a Lem story

Feb 02 18:41:52 <Lensman> If that's correct, then I can easily see how rhyming in Italian is much easier.

Feb 02 18:42:17 <Beltminer> in which the character demands of the other character's new writing-machine

Feb 02 18:42:36 <Beltminer> give me asad poem about a haircut,

Feb 02 18:42:47 <Beltminer> every word beginning in S!

Feb 02 18:43:27 <Beltminer> Kandel renders the answeer as "Sadly Samson shorn... and goes on - all starting in S! :)

Feb 02 18:44:09 <Beltminer> from Polish to English

Feb 02 18:44:10 <Dan> Impressive. I couldn't even manage that as a limerick.

Feb 02 18:44:16 <Beltminer> yeah!

Feb 02 18:44:45 <Lensman> Impressive. Most impressive. (But you are not a Jedi yet!)

Feb 02 18:44:52 <Dan> Hell, I couldn't manage it as a hiku!

Feb 02 18:45:19 <Beltminer> ok, Lens, a jedi story, every word starting in j!

Feb 02 18:45:40 <Lensman> Obviously not a direct translation of Stanislaw Lem's original text. :)

Feb 02 18:45:56 <Beltminer> nod :)

Feb 02 18:46:53 <Beltminer> well, i'm going to bite the wax tadpole of coca-cola

Feb 02 18:47:02 <Beltminer> a great chat!

Feb 02 18:47:34 <Lensman> BM: I've tried to write things where *every* word begins with the same letter. It's *very* hard when you can't use /a, an or the/.

Feb 02 18:47:59 <Beltminer> thx again for telling me, Dave

Feb 02 18:48:19 <Beltminer> a novel without the letter e, someone wrote once?

Feb 02 18:48:21 <Lensman> BM: Are you making leaving noises?

Feb 02 18:48:47 <Beltminer> yep, go drink a coke and get some supper :)

Feb 02 18:49:35 <Beltminer> or in Ch'in "bite the wax tadpole"

Feb 02 18:49:39 <Lensman> "Bite the wax tadpole of coca-cola"? How Zen. I remember wax Coca-Cola bottle candy, but tadpole??

Feb 02 18:50:18 <Beltminer> your earlier comment about non-literal trans,

Feb 02 18:50:33 <Lensman> "Coca-Cola" transliterates as "Bite the wax tadpole"?

Feb 02 18:50:54 <Beltminer> and so CocaCola is not expected to have tadpoles in it

Feb 02 18:51:07 <Beltminer> yep

Feb 02 18:51:33 <Lensman> Okay. I now think I know *less* than I did a minute ago... :)

Feb 02 18:52:44 <Beltminer> aha, urban legend!

Feb 02 18:53:04 <Beltminer> but it was big in the 1980s or so as truth

Feb 02 18:53:12 <Beltminer> disillusioned again

Feb 02 18:53:21 <Lensman> Actually... per Snopes.com, it's true!

Feb 02 18:53:35 <Lensman> http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/tadpole.asp

Feb 02 18:54:19 <Lensman> Or at least, "True in some cases." Well, that's very Zen too. :)

Feb 02 18:54:32 <NickE> Ta for dropping in Spike

Feb 02 18:54:46 <Dan> Nice to meet you, Spike.

Feb 02 18:54:50 <Beltminer> lol -i'm reading it too!

Feb 02 18:54:52 <vilstef> As Pratchett puts it-where do the tadpoles go to the toilet?

Feb 02 18:55:02 <Lensman> Indeed. Again, it's wonderful to have an "old school" Niven fan here, I hope to see you again.

Feb 02 18:55:03 <NickE> Always liked the timeline

Feb 02 18:55:21 <Beltminer> so some merchants did that but not coke co itself

Feb 02 18:55:41 <Lensman> Some Chinese shop-keepers, yes.

Feb 02 18:55:45 <Beltminer> nice to meet all u too!

Feb 02 18:55:53 <vilstef> Nice to meet you.

Feb 02 18:55:55 <NickE> W're here every month

Feb 02 18:56:23 <NickE> and sometime in between

Feb 02 18:56:25 <Beltminer> i'll be back [*without* Ahnold accent]

Feb 02 18:56:28 <vilstef> We're pretty informal, we'd call a General, Sargeant. . .

Feb 02 18:56:37 <Lensman> Or join the Larryniven-l list, if you want a large dose of Niven chat daily!

Feb 02 18:56:47 <NickE> And he means large :-)

Feb 02 18:57:07 <NickE> damn busy lately, still not cought up

Feb 02 18:57:10 <vilstef> Niven outchats my 2 Van Morrison lists.

Feb 02 18:57:12 <Lensman> Hey, what's 50-70 posts per day between friends? :)

Feb 02 18:57:18 <Beltminer> i'd joined at the start, but yeah, large volume, so i stopped

Feb 02 18:57:47 <NickE> I've given up trying to read everything

Feb 02 18:58:04 <Beltminer> good move NickE :))

Feb 02 18:58:11 <NickE> digests help

Feb 02 18:58:15 <NickE> a bit]

Feb 02 18:58:19 <Beltminer> later, all!

Feb 02 18:58:19 <vilstef> Me too-I delete more than I read.

Feb 02 18:58:23 * Beltminer has quit (Quit: *g0ne*)

Feb 02 18:58:28 <Lensman> The Piper list has a much lower volume. The list moderator there keeps complaining when we wonder off topic. Where's the fun in that? :)

Feb 02 18:58:32 <NickE> that was cool.

Feb 02 18:58:46 <Lensman> Indeed.

Feb 02 18:58:46 <NickE> Good move on inviting himlens

Feb 02 18:58:54 <Lensman> Thanx!

Feb 02 18:58:56 <vilstef> What's the fun if you don't wander off topic?

Feb 02 18:59:08 <Lensman> 'xactly.

Feb 02 18:59:44 <NickE> Like ignoring Larry and going on about Chandler :-)

Feb 02 18:59:49 <Lensman> So long as it doesn't devolve into a political discussion. *That* I can do without.

Feb 02 18:59:57 <NickE> Knew he wouldn't mind

Feb 02 19:00:12 <vilstef> PKD makes a good offtopic I always think

Feb 02 19:00:39 <Dan> There's one guy on the Piper list that I wish would learn to compose coherent sentences.

Feb 02 19:00:52 <Lensman> "If you don't like the current topic, then give us a new one!" I think that's a good mott.

Feb 02 19:00:57 <Lensman> Motto.

Feb 02 19:01:24 <SeanLog> hey all... finally got home and now i have to cook the gf dinner

Feb 02 19:01:37 <NickE> Hi Sean, Aww you missed teh fun

Feb 02 19:01:47 <Dan> Ah, Sean, you missed nearly everything.

Feb 02 19:02:01 <SeanLog> tis all logged

Feb 02 19:02:07 <SeanLog> tho i do miss the interaction

Feb 02 19:02:14 <Lensman> Dan: Oh, what's his name, Adam? Yah, blissful stream-of-consciousness gets old pretty fast. I just skim most of his posts.

Feb 02 19:02:26 <Dan> I know, but it would have been fun to have you adding your input as well.

Feb 02 19:02:38 <Dan> Lens, I think his name is Mike.

Feb 02 19:03:00 <Lensman> Okay, names are not my forte.

Feb 02 19:03:28 <Lensman> There we go, another Italian word ending in a vowel.

Feb 02 19:03:29 <Dan> But yeah, the stream-of-consciousness guy.

Feb 02 19:04:22 <Dan> Really? I thought it was French. Oh well, my bad.

Feb 02 19:04:52 <Lensman> Well, perhaps he has some sort of disability which makes it hard to write coherently. But it does seem odd that he so frequently goes on at such great length about... nothing whatsoever.

Feb 02 19:06:13 <vilstef> That's my complaint about Brian Aldiss. Most of his books are elegantly, beautifully written and don't say much.

Feb 02 19:07:30 <Lensman> All musical notations, such as piano, forte and allegro, are Italian.

Feb 02 19:07:51 <Lensman> Many many years of piano lessons and band practice, sorry for the lecture.

Feb 02 19:10:16 <vilstef> Better a lecture than preaching. :)

Feb 02 19:11:13 <Lensman> Well, I'll probably lose geek points for this, but I'm fairly sure I've never read any book by Aldiss, and not sure about any short stories either.

Feb 02 19:12:26 <Dan> I have a few books by Aldiss, but aside from Frankenstein Unbound, I've only read them once.

Feb 02 19:14:01 <NickE> Couldnt finish Unbound...or was it Barefoot In The Head?

Feb 02 19:14:07 <Lensman> That's something I can look forward to in my old age. All the SF authors I've never gotten around to reading, yet. Heck, until a year or so ago I'd neve read any Alfred Bester. I did not care for /The Demolished Man/, tho.

Feb 02 19:14:31 <vilstef> I have Cryptozoic and others by Aldiss, none have been that fascinating to me.

Feb 02 19:14:40 <NickE> I need to give it another go at some point

Feb 02 19:14:57 <Lensman> I *tried* to read a book by Stanislaw Lem, once. Honest.

Feb 02 19:14:59 <NickE> Teh Helleconia books arent bad

Feb 02 19:15:40 <Lensman> It's just... "soft science fiction" holds no appeal to me.

Feb 02 19:15:48 <NickE> Some of the Pirx the Pilot shorts were in Omni magazine. They wrer pretty good

Feb 02 19:15:55 <vilstef> Most of Bester I really like. I thinks Stars my Destination is my favorite.

Feb 02 19:17:05 <vilstef> I also like EXTRO aka Computer Connection by Bester. His collaboration with Zelazny, Psycho Shop is good too.

Feb 02 19:19:41 <Lensman> At least /The Stars My Destination/ was interesting. I won't say "enjoyable", and I certainly can't agree with whoever wrote the intro to the edition I read that Gully Foyle is the "greatest hero in SF literature"! I had a problem with the logic of mazes behind doors, too. If you can't teleport to a place you've never seen, why do you need a maze? A simple vestibule rigged so the outer and inner doors are never open simultaneously will work just as

Feb 02 19:20:29 <NickE> Larry thought of that with transport booths

Feb 02 19:20:41 <Lensman> Yup, same thing.

Feb 02 19:21:17 <vilstef> Gully is certainly an anti-hero, not a hero.

Feb 02 19:21:42 <Lensman> And a maze, in real life, isn't hard to defeat. Just put either hand on one wall and follow it around.

Feb 02 19:22:05 <Lensman> Vil: Absolutely.

Feb 02 19:22:51 <vilstef> Makes you wonder if the person who wrote the intro actually read the book?

Feb 02 19:23:40 <Dan> The person who wroter the intro was probably trying to *sell* copies of the book.

Feb 02 19:24:06 <Lensman> I ran a role-playing scenario once where I sent the PCs to a maze filled with minotaurs. But I threw in a ringer: There were four circular sections that would rotate after anyone passed thru the section. That made the maze more challenging...

Feb 02 19:24:33 * NickE has quit (Connection reset by peer)

Feb 02 19:25:10 * NickE (~NickE@ has joined #knownspace

Feb 02 19:25:19 <Dan> WB, NickE

Feb 02 19:25:23 <NickE> arse

Feb 02 19:25:26 <Lensman> But actually, what I see wrong with the idea of a maze inside a house is that it would eat up so much of the living space, and also that those with legitimate business in the house would have to go thru the stupid maze every time they wanted to come or go!

Feb 02 19:25:40 <NickE> late

Feb 02 19:25:56 <NickE> gonna bugger off to bed in a mo'

Feb 02 19:26:39 <Lensman> Too late!

Feb 02 19:27:10 <vilstef> I've got stuff to do too, got to catch a nap before going off to Job II.

Feb 02 19:27:26 <NickE> take care Gene

Feb 02 19:27:34 <Lensman> Sounds like its time to turn off the lights in the chat room

Feb 02 19:27:38 <NickE> beena good chat!

Feb 02 19:27:47 <Lensman> Yes, it has.

Feb 02 19:28:00 <vilstef> It's been real, it's been fun, even been real fun! Night Nick, Dan & Lens!

Feb 02 19:28:05 * vilstef has quit (Quit: *g0ne*)

Feb 02 19:28:15 <NickE> well, I'm going to bail too

Feb 02 19:28:24 <Lensman> Good night!

Feb 02 19:28:25 <NickE> Night night all!

Feb 02 19:28:27 <Dan> Night!

Feb 02 19:28:37 * NickE has quit ()

Feb 02 19:30:07 <Dan> Once everyone goes, I'll go back to doing electrical repairs around the house. Well, at least one more little job. I have to replace the dimmer switch on the headboard of the waterbed.

Feb 02 19:30:10 <Lensman> Is Sean still here? xihr? ...Bueller?

Feb 02 19:30:30 <Lensman> I think it's just you and me, Dan.

Feb 02 19:31:03 <Lensman> And Lens is going to take five and get something to eat.

Feb 02 19:31:33 <Dan> Sorry I was late saying goodnight to the recent departures, but my spouce had just served up a huge plate of stir-fry and I wasn't going to let it get cold.

Feb 02 19:31:36 * ShoppingDragon is now known as FlyingDragon

Feb 02 19:31:54 <Dan> WB Carol, how was shopping?

Feb 02 19:31:56 <FlyingDragon> Hello. Did we ever start talking about NIven?

Feb 02 19:32:13 <Dan> Some.

Feb 02 19:32:30 <FlyingDragon> I've got a headache. I'm on the verge of tears with them. I'm leaving shortly to take pain medicine and go to a play. with out children.

Feb 02 19:33:28 <Dan> Sorry to hear about your headache.

Feb 02 19:35:13 <FlyingDragon> I seem to alwasy have a headache. For years. Usually, it is dull, so I can just ignore it. But lately, it has been getting very sharp, a lot.

Feb 02 19:38:11 <Dan> That's beyond unfortunate. That really sucks, Carol. Have you spoken to a doctor about the headaches?

Feb 02 19:40:09 <FlyingDragon> I've never pushed hard enough.

Feb 02 19:40:39 <FlyingDragon> I've been asking doctors for 30 years about why my feet hurt, and people just say "Don't wear high heels." I never do.

Feb 02 19:41:49 <FlyingDragon> They got bettter after I stopped wearing necklaces. I got glasses because I thought that would help.

Feb 02 19:42:30 <FlyingDragon> I take a LOT of pain medicine for my feet, my shoulders.... I haven't taken much lately. Maybe all that helps keep the headache lighter.

Feb 02 19:42:47 <Dan> That's a bit odd. Maybe you've injured your neck in the past?

Feb 02 19:44:09 <Lensman> I'm very sad to hear that, Carol. I have another lady friend who gets migranes associated with her period, so bad and for so many days she can't keep a job long-term. As with her, I wish there were some magic pill that would make it simply vanish.

Feb 02 19:45:38 <FlyingDragon> My neck has alwasy hurt. People say "Just lower your shoulders. You are MAKING them hurt by tensing them up." I have arthritis in my neck. People just say "Well, it is going to hurt. People hurt. Old age isn't for sisies. "

Feb 02 19:48:02 <Dan> I think that people have an ability to be cruel without even knowing that they're doing it, sometimes.

Feb 02 19:48:43 <Dan> I hope that you find a reason for those headaches soon. And a way to get rid of them.

Feb 02 19:49:01 <FlyingDragon> Yes. People do seem to have a hard time "Walking a mile in their mocasins"

Feb 02 19:50:01 <Dan> Ah, my wife is off to watch TV, so I better take this chance to do that repair job on the waterbed headbord before she decides to go to bed tonight.

Feb 02 19:50:57 <Lensman> Yah. When I was young and I read about migrane headaches, I thought "Oh they must be exaggerating, it can't be *that* bad." But as I started getting older I started having allergy problems. If a migrane is even worse than a sinus headache... well, they now have my sympathy. I guess it's like Teela Brown. If you've never been hurt, you can't empathize.

Feb 02 19:51:03 <Dan> I'd like to get that dimmer switch installed for the headboard lights. That way I can concentrate on the chandelier in the dining room tomorrow.

Feb 02 19:51:08 <FlyingDragon> Time for me to take some pain medicine and leave for the play.

Feb 02 19:51:13 <FlyingDragon> Bye all.

Feb 02 19:51:21 <Dan> See you both later.

Feb 02 19:51:31 * FlyingDragon is now known as FlyingAway

Feb 02 19:51:42 * Dan is now known as Dan_Away

Feb 02 19:51:45 <FlyingAway> bye

Feb 02 19:51:45 <Lensman> But all we can do, Carol, is make stupid suggestions which you've no doubt thought of many years ago. Like, "Have you tried visiting a pain clinic?"

Feb 02 19:52:50 <FlyingAway> I'm tired of paying co-pays to hear a doctor tell me to take some pain medicine, and then to go on and on about how they are addictive and I shouldn't take them.

Feb 02 20:16:32 * Dan_Away is now known as Dan

Feb 02 20:16:49 <Dan> There! That's got the lights on the waterbed fixed.

Feb 02 20:18:20 <Dan> Next time I replace that dimmer switch, I need to take a pocket knife and whittle the hole in the board a bit wider in one spot.

Feb 02 20:19:11 <Dan> These new dimmer switches are a fraction of an inch larger than the old ones were, back in the day.

Feb 02 20:20:43 <Dan> Now I can concentrate on the last our or two of that e-bay auction and the gift for my wife. A jade ring I've bid on.

Feb 02 20:20:54 <Dan> our=hour

Feb 02 20:23:31 <SeanLog> heh

Feb 02 20:24:59 <Dan> Lyn also found a part for the floor lamp that she wants me to re-build. I bid on it already, but that auction won't end until tomorrow night.

Feb 02 20:26:00 <SeanLog> best of luck... i was at Will's hanging a high def tv on the wall and pulling tons of cable

Feb 02 20:26:07 <Dan> Antique milk glass, part of the lamp shade actually.

Feb 02 20:26:21 <Lensman> The light in our kitchen ceiling has been acting up. It's controlled by two separate wall switches. A few weeks back it seems to have quit working. It wasn't the bulbs, I tried switching one out. Then the next day without thinking I flipped on the switch, and the light came on. I'm thinking maybe the switch needs replaced, but I'm not sure.

Feb 02 20:26:54 <SeanLog> its probably one of the switches

Feb 02 20:27:10 <Lensman> Yes, good luck with your e-bay auction.

Feb 02 20:27:10 <Dan> You'd be proud of my output today, Sean. I've gotten two light fixtures rebuilt, and just put the dimmer switch on the waterbed headboard.

Feb 02 20:28:04 <Dan> Tomorrow I'll take the chandelier down and replace one of the light bulb sockets in it.

Feb 02 20:28:09 <Dan> Thanks.

Feb 02 20:28:47 <Dan> Yeah, Sean is right Lens. It's probably one of the light switches.

Feb 02 20:29:34 <Dan> It'd probably be worth your while to replace both switches.

Feb 02 20:29:58 <Lensman> Well, changing that shouldn't be hard. I'm no electrician, but changing a light switch is within my limited

Feb 02 20:30:06 <Lensman> "handyman

Feb 02 20:30:13 <Lensman> capacity.

Feb 02 20:30:47 <SeanLog> just kick the breaker... 110 can give a nasty jolt

Feb 02 20:31:04 <Dan> 4 screws, two or maybe three wires, and an equal number of wirenuts.

Feb 02 20:31:06 <Lensman> Hmmm, someone was complaining earlier of hitting the Windows key when they meant the shift key... I keep hitting the Enter key when I mean the shift key!

Feb 02 20:31:16 <Dan> LOL

Feb 02 20:31:22 <Dan> Guilty.

Feb 02 20:33:01 <Dan> Yeah, I've had at least one breaker switched off for every job I've done today. Except for the waterbed. That I could just unplug from the outlet.

Feb 02 20:34:02 <SeanLog> i have worked on stuff hot but i dont care to

Feb 02 20:34:23 <Dan> The hardest part of that job was crawling behind the headboard to reach the outlet.

Feb 02 20:35:40 <Dan> I kept getting my shirt caught on a holster I have mounted on the bed.

Feb 02 20:35:43 <Lensman> Well I suppose I could try "Tim Taylor bravado" and try to use plastic-handled screwdrivers and rubber gloves... but why bother? Flipping the circut breaker isn't a big deal, then you don't have to worry about it.

Feb 02 20:36:25 <Dan> That's right. Bravado is for people who enjoy visits to the emergency room.

Feb 02 20:38:24 <SeanLog> so who was in earlier

Feb 02 20:38:41 <Lensman> Or to paraphrase the old saying: "The are old electricians and bold electricians, but there are no old, bold electricians." :)

Feb 02 20:39:57 <Dan> Larry, Ed, a fellow that Lens invited who'd done the original Larry Niven Timeline that was in the Tales of Known Space collection...

Feb 02 20:39:57 <Lensman> How much earlier? Carol, and Larry, and Ed, and Spike MacPhee, and Vilstef, and...

Feb 02 20:40:38 <SeanLog> did larry and ed make it in at the same time for once?

Feb 02 20:42:02 <Lensman> No. In fact, Larry "confessed" that he and Ed are actually the same person. He pointed out we've never seen both of them together...

Feb 02 20:42:24 <SeanLog> heh

Feb 02 20:43:09 <Lensman> But it's not completely true. Larry and Ed actually *were* in the dedicated FOW chat at the same time. (No doubt by using multiple connections.) :)

Feb 02 20:45:53 <Dan> Well, ean could probably look at someone's IP mask and tell is they were using multiple identities in a chat.

Feb 02 20:46:00 <Dan> ean=Sean

Feb 02 20:47:21 <Lensman> But would Sean tell *us*? I mean, who would *not* keep a secret if Larry asked him to?

Feb 02 20:47:27 <SeanLog> i can actually. Can also tell you where they are in the world

Feb 02 20:48:49 <Dan> Would Sean tell? Hmmm, depends on if he agreed with the reason, I suppose. I have the utmost confidence in Sean's morals.

Feb 02 20:49:49 <SeanLog> for instance lensman is in bullshead city arizona and using cablevision of bullhead as his isp

Feb 02 20:51:32 <Lensman> :)

Feb 02 20:51:53 <SeanLog> actually to tell if someone is using 2 connections can be very difficult depending on how clever they are

Feb 02 20:52:36 <SeanLog> it is fairly easy to aquire a shell account at another location. then log in from a remote location. the ip would show as the one where the shell account is located

Feb 02 20:53:33 <Lensman> I don't know Sean personally, but there's a fine tradition in fandom of hoax identities. Back in the day when most fans knew each other only by exchanging (snail mail) letters, it wasn't infrequent for someone in a fan club to pose as a "new" member, one who sent in club dues by mail and contributed loc's to the clubzine, but who no one ever seemed to see at a meeting...

Feb 02 20:55:32 <Lensman> Sometimes two or more fen would conspire to contribute to the faux fan's output. Now, if Larry asked Sean to help him "pull one over" on the rest of us, could Sean resist? If so, he's made of sterner stuff than I! :)

Feb 02 20:55:40 <Dan> Well, I can tell you that Larry and Ed have totally different speech patterns and slang. Even Larry could slip once or twice in attempting to refrain from using his normal speech pattern.

Feb 02 20:57:02 <Lensman> Now, Ed has stuff pubbed under his own moniker. So if Larry really is Ed, then Larry is even more prolific than we thought! AFAIK Larry has never pubbed under a pseudonym.

Feb 02 20:59:15 <SeanLog> is carol at ninja school?

Feb 02 20:59:44 <Lensman> Carol left for a play.

Feb 02 20:59:46 <Dan> Nah, that's over for the day. She took some medicing for her headache and went o a play.

Feb 02 20:59:57 <SeanLog> k

Feb 02 21:00:22 <Dan> 50 minutes left on the auction for the jade ring for Lyn.

Feb 02 21:01:18 <Dan> Good, if I do win the ring, I can get the paypal payment made before Graham Norton comes on tonight.

Feb 02 21:02:30 <SeanLog> graham norton?

Feb 02 21:03:07 <Dan> A Brit comedian. On BBC America at 10 PM on Saturdays.

Feb 02 21:04:51 <Dan> It's sort of a chat show, sort of a variety show.

Feb 02 21:05:02 <SeanLog> i havent watched it

Feb 02 21:05:21 <SeanLog> tho i do have bbc america

Feb 02 21:05:24 <Dan> Sometimes it's hilarious, sometimes it's just a few giggles.

Feb 02 21:05:48 <Dan> Depends on his mood and who the guests happen to be.

Feb 02 21:05:52 <SeanLog> i mainly watch bbc america for python reruns and benny hill reruns

Feb 02 21:09:11 <Dan> Lyn watches it so that she can have a taste of home. Same reason I try to find so many British TV shows that she used to watch shen she was a kid. Sometimes she finds stuff on You-Tube and watches clips from Brit shows for hours.

Feb 02 21:09:38 <SeanLog> i have got julie hooked on dr who and the IT crowd

Feb 02 21:10:01 <Dan> Although she loathes Benny Hill, I have turned her on to Red Dwarf.

Feb 02 21:10:15 <SeanLog> red dwarf is ok

Feb 02 21:11:14 * You are now known as SeanS

Feb 02 21:11:23 <Dan> She's gone through my Dr Who collection, sometimes she remembers specific episodes that she's seen as a child.

Feb 02 21:12:28 <SeanS> you are fairly complete on dr who, arent you?

Feb 02 21:12:47 <Dan> She never really watched it regularly, though. I can thank Chris Eccleston and David Tennent for getting her interested in the old series again. She's quite fond of Hartnell and Troughton.

Feb 02 21:13:52 <Lensman> Red Dwarf, now THAT is a great show. But only after the first season.

Feb 02 21:14:09 <Dan> I'd say that I have roughly 80% of the classic shows on DVD now, and another 7% or more on VHS. I've got all the new series episodes from the 2005 re-start on up, as well.

Feb 02 21:15:38 <Dan> Most of the Who eps that I'm missing are from the time that the BBC was erasing their old video tapes.

Feb 02 21:15:44 <SeanS> i enjoyed whotv.com before the bbc shut them down... i dont know enough about the old series to know what eps i would like

Feb 02 21:16:24 <Dan> Depends on which Doctors you like best, and which writers.

Feb 02 21:17:22 <SeanS> whotv.org that is... they streamed all the old whos... I would put it on and night when going to bed

Feb 02 21:18:18 <Dan> The SFX were pretty simple on the episodes of the classic shows.

Feb 02 21:18:50 <Dan> Phone call...

Feb 02 21:23:26 <Dan> OK, handed the phone off to Lyn. It's our son, Anthony.

Feb 02 21:24:21 <Dan> I had to take a moment to catch up with him. He's in his first year of college, at 17!, and is majoring n computer programming.

Feb 02 21:24:52 <SeanS> i turned 18 in late november my first year at college

Feb 02 21:27:17 <Dan> He started college last fall, and won't turn 18 until Summer, this year. Lyn home-schooled all three of the kids. Anthony and shis sister Judith both had tow of the highest SAT scores in the whole state (New Mexico) when they took the test in 2006.

Feb 02 21:27:50 <SeanS> cool

Feb 02 21:28:21 <Dan> Yeah. I'm proud of all my step-kids.

Feb 02 21:29:25 <SeanS> i know

Feb 02 21:29:44 <Lensman> I would be proud too!

Feb 02 21:30:44 <SeanS> oh, dan, i got skype fully operational under linux. it is still a beta so the video can get a little dark but the audio is spot on

Feb 02 21:32:12 <Dan> Michelle is the oldest. She's the one that I'm going to fly to New Mexico and fetch back here to live with us. She and her boyfriend are planning to get married right after that. They'll be moving to one of the Carolinas after they get married.

Feb 02 21:32:42 <Dan> Good! Looking forward to seeing you on Skype again.

Feb 02 21:34:48 <Dan> I'm going to replace the incandesent light bulbs in the ceiling light with CF bulbs so that Lyn and I can have enough light back here for the webcams.

Feb 02 21:35:16 <SeanS> just dont break one ;)

Feb 02 21:36:02 <Dan> In fact, I want to replace all the old bulbs (at least the ones that aren't on dimmer switches) with CFs, all through the house.

Feb 02 21:36:39 <SeanS> it would be better to wait a year or two and replace them all with LED lights when the price comes down

Feb 02 21:37:41 <Dan> Nah, I want to cut my electric bill in half now. As the CF bulbs burn out, I'll replace them with LEDs.

Feb 02 21:38:25 <SeanS> tis your choice but i think the light that the CFs put out kinda sucks in compaarison to a regular bulb

Feb 02 21:38:32 <Dan> Actually, over half the lights in the house are already CFs.

Feb 02 21:38:42 <SeanS> it hurts my eyes over time

Feb 02 21:39:21 <Dan> Some of the new ones are far more white than the older ones that I've had in the past.

Feb 02 21:40:30 <Dan> I think that I'd only have to buy 10 more CFs to finish replacing all the bulbs in the house that aren't on dimmer switches.

Feb 02 21:42:14 <Dan> 3 in the office, 3 in the guest bedroom, 2 in the bathroom, 1 in my closet, and 1 in the hallway.

Feb 02 21:44:38 <Dan> All the lamps already have CFs. The new fixture in the office closet (that I fixed today) has an old CF that I took out of one of the lamps in the living room. I put one over the stove last week. Both of our desk lamps here in the office have them...

Feb 02 21:46:19 <SeanS> all but a couple of my lights are recessed lighting... dont know how CFs would work in them... I will just wait on the LED lights

Feb 02 21:49:25 <Dan> Hmmm... I could be wrong, but I think that CFs are cooler-running than regular lights. They ought to work even better in recessed fixtures. But don't take my word for it, look it up and find out. But you want to wait for LEDs, then go for it! LEDs ought to be even better than CFs.

Feb 02 21:51:18 <Dan> I just like the idea of cutting my electric bill down to just the stove, fridge, water heater, washer & dryer, and the well pump.

Feb 02 21:52:32 <SeanS> its the shape that i am concerned with

Feb 02 21:52:50 <SeanS> has to have the long stem r-20 body to fit most of my fictures

Feb 02 21:53:46 <Dan> Really? I see. Yeah, that might cause you some problems in finding CFs that'll fit in your recessed fixtures.

Feb 02 21:54:16 <SeanS> the kitchen lights are the 2 prong 120 volt mr-16 bulbs and a bunch are 12 volt 2 pronged mr-16 bulbs. i both love and hate my builder

Feb 02 21:56:06 <Dan> I can see why. I bet the lights look great, but you have to have so many different types in storage for when one bulb burns out.

Feb 02 22:00:40 <SeanS> yep... and the bulbs for the kitchen run about 7.50 per bulb

Feb 02 22:00:47 <SeanS> and i have to order them in

Feb 02 22:00:48 <Dan> I also want to buy one of those new-style kerosene lanterns that have a water boiler attachment on top. For when the power goes out due to the ice storms we have every 5 years or so. And I need to buy a metal kerosene can and a new wick for my kerosene heater, for the same emergencies.

Feb 02 22:02:32 <Dan> And perhaps a Coleman Stove, like Dad keeps handy for power outages as well as camping.

Feb 02 22:04:53 <Dan> I noticed during the last power outage that we have plenty of oil lamps and candles for light, but we have no way to cook if the power stays out for several days. Well, I do have a cast-iron Dutch Oven, but we'd have to go outside to use that.

Feb 02 22:06:22 <Dan> I'd rather be prepared for emergencies that rarely happen than be caught flat-footed when they do happen.

Feb 02 22:07:08 <Dan> I won the jade ring!

Feb 02 22:07:34 <SeanS> excellent

Feb 02 22:07:49 <Dan> Yes! I hope Lyn likes it.

Feb 02 22:10:20 <Dan> $12 total: cost of the item, S&H, and shipping insurance.

Feb 02 22:15:44 <Dan> OK, i've been trying to hide this from her for nearly a week now. Glad that it's all over except for the shipping.

Feb 02 22:17:02 <Dan> She's still on the phone with Anthony, so I guess that we're not going to watch Graham Norton this week. That's OK, we can catch it in reruns later on.

Feb 02 22:20:45 <SeanS> heh

Feb 02 22:37:35 <Dan> OK, got all the payment details out of the way.

Feb 02 22:39:26 <SeanS> cool.. hope she isnt reading this chat over your shoulder ;)

Feb 02 22:39:32 <Dan> Tomorrow evening I'll find out if I won the milk-glass bowl for the antique floor lamp. After that, I better lay off of e-bay until I go back to work.

Feb 02 22:40:03 <Dan> Nah, she's in the living room, still on the phone with "her little boy."

Feb 02 22:41:03 <SeanS> just checking

Feb 02 22:41:41 <Lensman> Someone's still here? I'm surprised!

Feb 02 22:42:06 <SeanS> there is almost always someone here

Feb 02 22:46:01 <Dan> Wow! Lyn called for me to cone into the living room and see what she'd found on TV. The local PBS station was playing an old show that featured Derek and the Dominos, and Johnny Cash. Eric Clapton looked so young that I couldn't recognise him except by his voice.

Feb 02 22:46:22 <SeanS> cool

Feb 02 22:46:32 <Dan> Johnny Cash was fat, too!

Feb 02 22:46:54 <SeanS> he bulked up after he kicked the pills... then slimmed down again

Feb 02 22:46:56 <Dan> I guess he picked up a lot of weight back when he first gave up drugs.

Feb 02 22:48:24 <Dan> You know you're getting old when all of your childhood heroes are either in the cemetary, the morgue, rehab, or retirement homes.

Feb 02 22:48:41 <SeanS> yep

Feb 02 22:49:17 <Dan> Even Rick Wakeman has had three or four heart attacks now.

Feb 02 22:51:32 <Dan> Lyn had the audasity to compare my guitar playing, from back in the garage band days, to Clapton! Whatta crock! I couldn't be in *that* league without devoting every moment not spent eating or sleeping to practicing!

Feb 02 22:52:53 <Dan> Sure, I had moments that bordered on quality playing, but I wa always strictly amateur.

Feb 02 22:52:56 <SeanS> one of my best friends, steve, is a guitar god. but from the time he was 14 his fingers itched to have a guitar to touch. he is damn good but still not up to clapton

Feb 02 22:53:38 <SeanS> he is blessed with perfect pitch

Feb 02 22:53:38 <Dan> Exactly. I think Lyn was letting her wifely pride in her man get the better of her judgement.

Feb 02 22:55:58 <Dan> Real tallent is a blessing. Having the balls to develop your tallent takes maturity.

Feb 02 22:57:12 <Dan> Music is one of those vocations that is just as hard as writing. Just in a different direction.

Feb 02 22:57:14 <SeanS> he is in a band called the mertons. they were signed by black dog records for a time. you can pull up some of their songs on amazon.. pieces of them any way

Feb 02 22:58:36 <SeanS> http://www.amazon.com/Girandole-Mertons/dp/B00002JV2K/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1202011089&sr=1-6

Feb 02 22:59:25 <Dan> All my best moments on different instruments have been converted to MP3s. Definetly Garage Band class, I was.

Feb 02 23:01:31 <Dan> I'm much better at writing than I ever was at making music.

Feb 02 23:01:37 <SeanS> like i said tho, he has perfect pitch and practiced non stop for years.. other than sleep and school

Feb 02 23:02:06 <SeanS> he told me he would be in class in high school and would go through the motions of playing under the desk

Feb 02 23:02:55 <SeanS> he is one of those that always carries a couple of picts in his pocket just in case a guitar shows up

Feb 02 23:05:41 <SeanS> i on the other hand know about 3 chords on the guitar and cant put them together to form anything remotely like a song

Feb 02 23:08:15 <Dan> 3 chords? You'd be overqualified to play Punk Rock. LOL!

Feb 02 23:08:44 <Dan> You'd be a master musician in Country music.