Chat Log: February 3rd 2007

[10:11] * SeanS sets mode: +o Harry_Redd

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[11:38] * SeanS sets mode: +o Harry_Redd

[11:38] <SeanS> stay in the damn channel... i have to leave before too much longer

[12:38] <Flying_away> Hey Sean. You can't be here for the chat?

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[13:18] * Fred has joined #knownspace

[13:18] <Fred> Howdy folks. Just logging in an wandering away so I can come back later and see what I missed. :)

[13:23] <Lensman> I'm multi-tasking. Talk to you later!

[14:13] * NickE has joined #knownspace

[14:13] <NickE> Howdy Peeps

[14:14] <NickE> Mad day, but fun

[14:15] <NickE> <tumbleweed>

[14:17] <NickE> Hellooooo......?

[14:18] <NickE> 19.17 GMT here. Back in 10 minutes or so

[14:19] <Lensman> Hi Nick!

[14:20] <NickE> Ah it lives!

[14:20] <NickE> Eeryone take a pee at the same time or something?

[14:21] <NickE> everyone

[14:22] <Lensman> We're early, Nick. The gang hasn't arrived yet.

[14:22] <NickE> aah

[14:22] <Lensman> I think official start time is about 37 minutes.

[14:23] <NickE> I know, but theres usually a few early birds :-)

[14:24] <Lensman> So, anything new and wonderful in the world of Nick E?

[14:24] <NickE> Larry sometimes makes an early appearance as weel

[14:24] <Lensman> Does he? I haven't been here often enuff to know.

[14:24] <NickE> Oh this and that :-) Recorded my first podcast today!

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[14:25] <Lensman> Do tell!

[14:25] <NickE> Hi Sean

[14:25] <Sean1783> hey

[14:25] <Lensman> Hi Sean! Nick says he recorded his first podcast today.

[14:26] * Sean1783 changes topic to 'Welcome to the 1st Saturday of the month Niven Chat!!'

[14:26] <NickE> Well, did an article for Sending A Wave, a UK based Firefly podcast and turns out they record about 25 miles away. Met them all at a shindig a few weeks back and they invited me along to the recording

[14:26] <Sean1783> Good for you Nick...

[14:27] <NickE> Which was a hoot. Ended up commenting on my own voicemail that I'd sent them!

[14:27] <Lensman> So in this context is "article" print (type) or audio?

[14:28] <NickE> Audio. Review of a filk CD that was broadcast as episode 24 of The Signal, which is the original Firefly 'cast

[14:29] <NickE> So, been doing a *lot* of audio work lately (nudge, nudge)

[14:29] <Lensman> Our local convention is trying to lure in a Harry Potter podcast from MuggleNet. Problem is the podcasters are scattered all over the country; one is in New York, and we're in K.C. They can't afford their own plane fare, so it's a problem.

[14:30] <NickE> Some of which I can't talk about yet :-)

[14:30] <NickE> Do it all via Skype (yes I know I need to get it too)

[14:30] <NickE> A lot of 'casts do that

[14:31] <NickE> The Sending A Wave recording today had an interview with someone from Dallas via Skype (Very interesting, but I can't say more :-)

[14:32] <Sean1783> skype is a great program... i use it all the time

[14:33] <NickE> Yeah, i need to get broadband and sort it out as I'll be doing a lot more podcast and related audio in the near future

[14:33] <Sean1783> i talk to Euan in New Zealand with it all the time. crystal clear and video enabled

[14:33] <NickE> Cool

[14:33] <Sean1783> right out of star trek

[14:33] <Lensman> Yah, well that's spoze to be a part of a Harry Potter track and I guess the five people that wanna do the podcast want to be here at the con to participate in the programming. Which would be great, our con is just trying to figure out how to finance this.

[14:34] <Lensman> The only way I'd ever do video over Internet is using an avatar. I like being able to slouch in front of the keyboard in my underwear.

[14:35] <Sean1783> the video only starts when you tell it to

[14:35] <NickE> Difficult, just make sure it's done properly (witness Booster events going tits up in the last few days)

[14:35] <Lensman> At the moment it's a bit cold for that, but grungy clothes and uncombed hair, anyway.

[14:35] <NickE> Thanks for that image Lens!

[14:36] <Lensman> Glad to oblige. :)

[14:36] <Sean1783> euan called me the other day when it was zero here. he was having a party and girls were running around in bikinis.... asshole ;)

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[14:36] <NickE> Hi Uwe

[14:36] <NickE> ?

[14:36] <bandersnatch> hey all

[14:36] <Sean1783> hi uwe

[14:36] <Lensman> Welcome.

[14:38] <NickE> Sunny here today (nice bike ride to podcast session) bloody cold tonight though (chilly and dark ride home)

[14:38] <bandersnatch> we have global warming ;-/

[14:39] <NickE> Nooooo!

[14:39] <bandersnatch> too wet, toowarm , everything and the doormat is starting to have green friends

[14:39] <bandersnatch> .

[14:39] <NickE> :-)

[14:39] <Lensman> I forget, Bander, where do you live?

[14:40] <NickE> And whereaboouts in Germany?

[14:40] <Sean1783> well, back on the road for me... I will be on from the house after while. (at gf's now)

[14:41] <NickE> 'kay

[14:41] <Lensman> TTYL Sean

[14:41] <Sean1783> l8r

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[14:42] <Harry_Redd> Sean leaves and I show up! Hi all.

[14:43] <Lensman> Hi Harry

[14:43] <NickE> Here's the link to the podcast I did today (I see Toni has just updated the site too, Show 14 is mine)

[14:43] <NickE> Hi Frank

[14:43] <NickE> He'll be back shortly

[14:46] <Lensman> So, anybody know what time what's-his-name, the co-author of _Fleet of Worlds_ will be here?

[14:46] <NickE> Ed Lerner. He reckoned around 3pm your time

[14:46] <Harry_Redd> Ed lerner Most likely about 3 or so West coast time.

[14:47] <NickE> What he said :-)

[14:47] <Lensman> I spoze it would be polite to check Ed out on and Locus Online to see what stories he has published. So I'll be multi-tasking for a bit.

[14:48] <NickE> brb

[14:48] <bandersnatch> Q to where i live:

[14:52] <Harry_Redd> Right up near the Danish Border?

[14:53] <Fred> mmm, Danish . . .

[14:53] <Lensman> Looks like he's as far north in Germany as you can get, yah.

[14:55] <bandersnatch> another 50km, we sometimes go shopping in in either Sonderborg, Abenraa or Tonder

[14:56] <Harry_Redd> I like Danish food. They have a touch...

[14:56] <Lensman> I know nothing about weather patterns in Germany. I know there are *lots* of mountains. Do the prevailing weather patterns keep it wet where you are, or is it especially wet lately?

[14:56] <bandersnatch> tasty fish, yoghurt and some other stuff

[14:56] <bandersnatch> well, it starts to get hilly south fo the "mittelgebirge" ( there is a small outrigger "Harz further north.

[14:58] <bandersnatch> where i live its glacier runout zone, stony slightly hilly. the westcoast is about as flat a it can get. already see the inlaws on Monday when they come for a visit on Sunday.

[14:58] <Harry_Redd> Bander, It's pretty flat where you are no?

[14:59] <bandersnatch> i live at 14 meters elevation, been carefull about that.

[14:59] <Fred> font test

[15:00] <Lensman> I've never visited Europe, but I understand it's a lot more cosmopolitain there. Is there a lot of cross-border commuting? Do the two countries blend into one another, or does everyone on one side of the border have Deutsche as their native language, and Danish on the other?

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[15:00] <Harry_Redd> I use to live at a bit over 100 m And grew up at a place 200 m above sea level.

[15:00] <Agincourtdb> hi

[15:00] <Fred> hey again

[15:00] <Harry_Redd> Hi Court.

[15:00] * Agincourtdb feels crappy

[15:01] <Lensman> Welcome

[15:01] <Fred> :(

[15:01] <bandersnatch> just looked it up ist terminal/end/front moraine

[15:01] <Harry_Redd> So does Harry.

[15:01] <Agincourtdb> I played a smoke-filled bar last night, didn't get home till 4am, still in bed now

[15:01] <NickE> Hi Dave

[15:01] <Agincourtdb> hi all

[15:02] <Fred> you see France pretty much outlawed indoor smoking?

[15:02] <bandersnatch> The danish/german Border has been move up and down on a regular basis.

[15:02] <NickE> Not good (smoky atmosphere)

[15:02] <Agincourtdb> we did in my country 2 years ago... baltimore is getting ready to, which is where i played.

[15:02] <Lensman> Has the border moved since WWII?

[15:02] <bandersnatch> Altona a neighboring town to hamburg used to be danish in the 1050

[15:02] <Fred> 4

[15:02] <Agincourtdb> even virginia is considering it

[15:02] <Agincourtdb> my county that is

[15:03] <Harry_Redd> I did some shoppoing yesterday... The power chair sis a wonder, but has no shocks and made it home on thelast bar of the power gage.

[15:03] <bandersnatch> and at one time Sonderborg, Abenraa ( Appenrade ) used to be german.

[15:03] <NickE> Looking fwd to July I think which is when the ban kicks in over here (public places)

[15:03] <bandersnatch> WeÄve got a well cared for dansih minority with their onw culture stuff and schools.

[15:03] <Harry_Redd> European border squabbles. (sigh)

[15:03] <Fred> what's the range on the chair Harry?

[15:04] <Lensman> So I guess the answer is: Yes, there's a lot of cultural blending near the border.

[15:04] <Agincourtdb> this is schw(whatever) and holstien?

[15:04] <NickE> Ireland has had the ban for a while now and while theer was a lot of "it'll kill pub trade!" talk, in fact restaurant and pub revenues have improved AFAIK

[15:04] <bandersnatch> Yeah, Schleswig Holstein

[15:04] <Harry_Redd> BRB COFFEE!

[15:04] <Agincourtdb> NickE exactly the same happened here: all the families started coming out, made up the business

[15:05] <NickE> All for that

[15:05] <Harry_Redd> I was told 11 miles, but this was only about 3.

[15:05] <Lensman> So what are the problems with living only 14 meters above sea level? Is the ground saturated with water? In New Orleans (USA) everyone is buried in mausoleums (sp?) above the ground, 'cuz if you dig a hole it fills with water.

[15:05] <NickE> Like pubs, hate the smog

[15:06] <Agincourtdb> bandersnatch: my sis was in that area doing computer trade show years ago, and she said there was no love lost

[15:06] <Agincourtdb> In New Orleans, if you build a HOUSE, it fills with water. ;-)

[15:07] <Lensman> I would be a lot more willing to go to a bar if I knew there would be no smoke. But I've never been part of the barfly/ pub crowd.

[15:07] <NickE> Heh. I work for a Danish company....who also have a German branch too

[15:07] <bandersnatch> Border: no, the last time the border was changed in a major way was by plebiszite in 1920

[15:08] <Agincourtdb> well, it got moved unwillingly during the war didn't it?

[15:08] <Lensman> That's about 3 generations ago, by now.

[15:08] <bandersnatch> computer trade show? that would have been hannover in Lower Saxony imho a less than pleasant palce

[15:09] <Agincourtdb> i don't remember bandersnatch.. it was near enough that the Danish ppl she was talking to about it had driven down for the day

[15:09] <bandersnatch> on the smaller island in front of the german northseacoast "halligen" they used to build the hauses in such a way that come high water

[15:10] <bandersnatch> they could separate the ceiling and roof as one piece from the walls and use it as a boat to savety.

[15:10] <Agincourtdb> wow

[15:10] <Agincourtdb> My question is, why not just build the house on pontoons?

[15:10] <Agincourtdb> or on stilts

[15:10] <bandersnatch> which danish firm?

[15:11] <Agincourtdb> no idea bandersnatch

[15:12] <Lensman> Wow indeed! I've never heard of that before.

[15:12] <bandersnatch> this was in the 1200- 1400 timeframe, they do it on stilts today. The lower walls are only loosely place between the concrete stilts and the upper storey and roof

[15:13] <bandersnatch> are rather sturby. now all stuff is taken to the attic lifestick is place in the first sotey and the groundfloor walls may be pushed out by the seay.

[15:13] <bandersnatch> they didnt have that for some time. But still you ve got to be carefull.

[15:14] <NickE> Oh

[15:14] <Agincourtdb>

[15:14] <Lensman> Interesting how potential disaster can affect architecture. In Japan, where earthquakes are frequent, traditional housing was built with the lightest possible construction, light wood and rice paper walls, so that if the house collapsed on top of you it wouldn't kill you.

[15:16] <NickE> LOL Aggie

[15:16] <Harry_Redd> Not only quakes Lens, but Typhoons. Shoji screens are easy and cheap to build. However, now, most building is reinforced concrete.

[15:16] <Agincourtdb> the words "headbutt" and "wookie" really stand out in that link, don't they? classy

[15:17] <NickE> :-)

[15:18] <NickE> The company has just "expanded" into the US as well

[15:18] <Agincourtdb> what do they do?

[15:19] <Agincourtdb> besides expand

[15:19] <Lensman> "Edward M. Lerner" had a novel from Baen Books: _Moonstruck_, Feb 2005. I'm guessing that's our guy?

[15:19] <Harry_Redd> Yupper.

[15:20] <Lensman> Good point re typoons Harry, thanx

[15:20] <Agincourtdb> wasn't that made into a movie with Cher?

[15:20] <Agincourtdb> ;-)

[15:20] <bandersnatch> the typhoon?

[15:20] <Harry_Redd> Been to Japan, sat out a typhoon in a bar there. FUN Party!

[15:20] <Agincourtdb> I took the name of my cd from the "Procrustes"

[15:20] <Agincourtdb> in "Crashlander"

[15:21] <NickE> small pharma, basically oncology research...small molecule ihihibitors for a number of cancer proteins, but Savene is our only product so far. It's bloody marvelous at what it does (prevents damage caused by anthracyclins when there's an extravasation accident)

[15:22] <Lensman> "Wookies have been known to tear peoples' *arms* out of their sockets... Let the wookie win!"

[15:22] <NickE> :-)

[15:22] <Agincourtdb> hehe Lens

[15:22] <Agincourtdb> Nick: I'll pretend I understodd that by smiling and nodding :-)

[15:22] <NickE> Thought you might :-)

[15:23] <Agincourtdb> They should have had a wookie tearing a clone trooper's arm out of it's socket in the ridiculous battle sequences in epIII

[15:23] <NickE> "an extra..what?" is most peoples reaction

[15:24] <Lensman> My biological studies help me with "oncology", but the rest whizzed right over my head...

[15:24] <Agincourtdb> Nick: you lost me before that, at anthracyclins

[15:24] <Agincourtdb> but you had me at hello

[15:25] * SteveS has joined #knownspace

[15:25] <Agincourtdb> hi steve

[15:25] <SteveS> Hi, all!

[15:25] <Lensman> I spoze I could look up "extravasation" but why should I when I can get Nick to tell me what it means?

[15:25] <Agincourtdb> rofl exactly

[15:25] <NickE> sorry. They are the main class of chemotherapy drugs. Nasty shit

[15:25] <NickE> :-)

[15:25] <NickE> Well you asked!

[15:26] <Agincourtdb> I need a soda

[15:26] <Harry_Redd> Hi Steve.

[15:26] <Agincourtdb> but the minifridge is waaaaaay over there

[15:26] <SteveS> Hey, Frank.

[15:26] <Agincourtdb> and my bed is so nice and warm and cozy

[15:27] <Lensman> Why didja hafta bring up Ep III? We were having such a *nice* conversation! <g>

[15:27] <Agincourtdb> lol sorry

[15:27] <SteveS> So is the Sith about to hit the fan?

[15:27] <Agincourtdb>

[15:27] <Agincourtdb> catch up steve

[15:28] <Lensman> Actually I have Ep III on DVD but have never watched it. Saw it only once in the theatre. Guess I should turn in by SW "geek" card, huh?

[15:28] <Agincourtdb> no

[15:28] <Agincourtdb> buying it in the first place assures your geek status

[15:29] <SteveS> So things got a little hairy, then. ;-)

[15:29] <Agincourtdb> lol steve

[15:29] <Lensman> Oh, what a relief!

[15:30] <Agincourtdb> all right I'm getting up long enough to relieve myself and getting a soda

[15:30] <NickE> OK. Chemo (often anthracyclin based poisons not to put too fine a point on it) generally administered by IV injection. You miss the vein (approx 0.1% occurance) and all this nasty crap goes into the surrounding tissue. Local concentration way over cells tolerance, cells die, necrosis, pain and really bad injury requiring excision and skin graft or even amputation! Savene stops teh cells going into programmed cell death, gives time for drug level to drop bel

[15:30] <Agincourtdb> but then right back into bed

[15:30] <bandersnatch> extravasation ~= leakage into the surrounding tissue ?

[15:31] <NickE> yup

[15:31] <SteveS> Yikes.

[15:31] <NickE> Given within 6 hours of an extravasation accident and it stops the cells dying off

[15:32] <Lensman> But "oncology" means pre-natal development, right? So what does that have to do with chemotherapy?

[15:32] <NickE> Kind of a safety kit deal. every cancer treatment centre should have a kit

[15:33] <NickE> Oncology = study of Cancer

[15:33] <Lensman> Oops! Bad Lensman, no biscuit.

[15:33] <NickE> :-)

[15:33] <Agincourtdb> obstetrics

[15:33] <NickE> thats the one

[15:36] <Harry_Redd> Ya got to be careful with medical terms. and NEVER confuse Circumcision with Castration!

[15:36] <NickE> Bloody hope not!

[15:36] <Harry_Redd> :-)

[15:37] <Lensman> "Ontogeny". That's what I was thinking of.

[15:37] <NickE> ah

[15:37] <bandersnatch> Ontogeny Recapitulates Phylogeny ??? ObNiven the Mote hehe

[15:38] <NickE> nice

[15:38] <Lensman> I think that's the best known use of the word, yes. Didn't remember it was in "Mote"

[15:39] <Harry_Redd> Nick :

[15:40] <bandersnatch> bad link, login required

[15:40] <Agincourtdb> rgistered only

[15:40] <Harry_Redd> Free registration though.

[15:40] <Agincourtdb> plus, it's the Washington Times

[15:41] <NickE> whats the gist?

[15:41] <Harry_Redd> Nothing wrong with the Wash times that isn't wrong with the Wash Post.

[15:41] <SteveS> I went to bugmenot,com. You can use as username, and bugmenot for password.

[15:41] <Agincourtdb> nobody here reads the reverend moon's newspaper

[15:42] <Lensman> "Oh-oh. Someone must have said something political." <g>

[15:42] <Agincourtdb> i mean here in washington that is

[15:43] <Lensman> Sun Young Moon (sp?) owns the Washington... Post? Times? ??

[15:43] <bandersnatch> nice combination "mandatory" and "The reactions range from loss of consciousness to seizures."

[15:43] <Agincourtdb> i dont know if he still does but he did when it started

[15:44] * frgeek has joined #knownspace

[15:44] <Agincourtdb> hi fr

[15:44] <Harry_Redd> No longer. He had to divest himself.

[15:44] <SteveS> Hi, FG.

[15:44] <Agincourtdb> oh ok

[15:44] <frgeek> Hi all

[15:45] <frgeek> Is see we have another votile toopic on the list agian

[15:45] <Harry_Redd> Moon had to get rid of his interests in the SF Chronical too.

[15:45] <SteveS> I didn't realize it had those sorts of adverse side effects.

[15:46] <NickE> that worked, cheers Aggie

[15:46] * EML has joined #knownspace

[15:46] <NickE> Hi Phil

[15:46] <SteveS> Hi, EML.

[15:46] <EML> Room for one more?

[15:46] <NickE> Hi EML

[15:46] <Agincourtdb> hi eml

[15:46] <NickE> ED Lerner?

[15:46] <bandersnatch> "There is no proof Gardasil will stop cervical cancer," he said. "They haven't been studying it long enough to make that claim." Hmm now who decided to make it mandatory

[15:46] <Lensman> Fr Geek: Are you talking about global warming? I'm truly astounded, I though we'd pretty much talked out that issue in the past, I'm quite surprised it's getting so much response.

[15:46] <Harry_Redd> Hi Ed! Good to see you!

[15:47] <Lensman> "There's always room for Jell-O!", EML

[15:47] <bandersnatch> I would at least have tested ithis for some time on volunteers

[15:47] <EML> Hi all, Yes EML = Edward M. (Ed) Lerner ... or evil maniacal laughter. Context is everything.

[15:47] <NickE> :-)

[15:47] <Lensman> Oh! Welcome Ed. Or Evil, if you prefer.

[15:48] <NickE> "mine is and evil die!"

[15:48] <Harry_Redd> Yeah Bander... The typical politicas response, identify a proble, then do something with out prtoper information even if it's the wrong thing and dangerous.

[15:48] <EML> We'll see ow it goes :-)

[15:48] <Agincourtdb> much like Iraq

[15:48] <Lensman> So, what can you tell us about your collaborations with Larry *without* any plot spoilers or giving away any of the "surprises" ?

[15:49] <EML> Agreed: no spoilers.

[15:49] <EML> OKay ... the first book (scheduled for September) is called Fleet of Worlds

[15:49] * Agincourtdb is drooling already

[15:49] <NickE> What got you 2 together on this project (FOW and JOW)?

[15:49] <bandersnatch> ok , no spoilers, right ;-)

[15:50] <NickE> <can't wait>

[15:50] <EML> That's intentionally evokes Ringworld, of course.

[15:50] <frgeek> Every time I hear "juggle of worlds" I think of some KS/Motie crossover (we juggle eggs of infinate value)

[15:50] <EML> Like Ringworld, Fleet of Worlds makes exploring an exotic environment part of the story.

[15:51] <Harry_Redd> One question. Is Louis Wu involved or do you have a new character set?

[15:51] <EML> (Uh-oh ... the many of you type faster than the one of me. :-) )

[15:51] <NickE> <Mr Burns> Excellent </Mr Burns>

[15:51] <Lensman> We were discussing the "stages of the hero's journey" re Ringworld and it was only then I realized that the voyage to the Fleet of Worlds was a lesser journey to the "world of wonder", prestaging the greater journey to Ringworld.

[15:52] <Harry_Redd> Please slow down with the questions all. Ed is new to IRC. chat.

[15:52] <NickE> No prob

[15:52] <EML> Fleet of Worlds (hereafter, FOW) takes place 200 years before Ringworld. Louis Wu isn't a character. But Nessus is ...

[15:53] <NickE> Cool. Figures too

[15:53] <EML> Struggling to give you information without spoilers ...

[15:53] <Harry_Redd> EXCELLENT!

[15:53] <NickE> We know Siggie Ausfaller is involved (Larry told us)

[15:53] <Lensman> I think Larry has said it's set shortly after "At the Core", and I'm guessing the plot concerns the start of the Puppeteer migration.

[15:53] <Fred> does anybody else ever make a niven joke in the wrong forum and have everybody stare at them uncomprhendingly?

[15:54] <Agincourtdb> no, I'm well-compartmentalized

[15:54] <EML> There must be human charcaters of course. In FOW, they come from a world in Known Space never before revealed.

[15:54] <Lensman> Not really, no.

[15:54] <Harry_Redd> Not compartmentalized. I have degrees of seporation.

[15:54] <Fred> they were talking about why Tiger Woods won't play here in Phoenix any more. Apparently the last time he did, somebody threw an orange at him

[15:54] <NickE> That's a very interesting period of Known Space, always keen to know more

[15:55] <Fred> I said "at least it wasn't a thrumb"

[15:55] <Harry_Redd> Truly Nick.

[15:55] <NickE> :-)

[15:55] <EML> As to Sigmund, he's more in Juggler of Worlds (hereafter JOW).

[15:55] <Lensman> Yah, well until Larry said Siggy was involved, I thought perhaps it was *all* about Puppeteers, no human characters.

[15:55] <NickE> Ah

[15:56] <NickE> Mostly new human characters then in FOW?

[15:56] <EML> I'll say less about Juggler than Fleet (for one thing, Juggler is a work in progress), but *both* have human characters.

[15:56] <Harry_Redd> One thing I have noticed. The more Nessus stories we got, The more human Nesses got. Right up to R.E. Ed, did you have a problem with that?

[15:56] <Fred> ack. I explained the joke, and my other chat is saying "ringworld? I don't even know what that is"

[15:56] <NickE> Good. Need the "tourist" human viewpoint amongst others

[15:57] <EML> Both books have scenes in familiar parts of Known Space *and8 in the Fleet of Worlds.

[15:57] <Lensman> So I presume it delves much more deeply into Puppeteer culture than we've seen before. Does the question re Puppeteer reproduction get resolved? Is there a description of the "mother" species and more details of how the baby is brought to term? And do Puppeteers lactate?

[15:57] <Lensman> Inquiring minds want to know!

[15:57] <NickE> Steady Lens!

[15:57] <NickE> :-)

[15:57] <Agincourtdb> The Answers to your questions will cost one trillion stars

[15:58] <NickE> LOL

[15:58] <Fred> hmm. do baby puppeteers suckle from both mothers of differnt species at the same time?

[15:58] <EML> Stepping back, these books came about because I wanted to explore the Fleet. I was on a Worldcon panel with Larry about worlds we'd like to visit.

[15:58] <Lensman> LOL Agin

[15:58] <Harry_Redd> I never bout into the "digger wasp" idea. It is innefficent, for one thing and Puppeteers do lie a lot. ;-)

[15:58] <NickE> Oh definitely

[15:58] <Agincourtdb> they probably eat the corpse of the mother they just burst out of

[15:58] <EML> I said I wanted to visit the Fleet of Worlds ... and one thing led to another.

[15:58] <NickE> That's pretty cool

[15:59] <Agincourtdb> and then they put on a top hat and a cane and do a little dance on the countertop

[15:59] <EML> I can promise this: you'll learn far more about the Puppeteers than you ever have (starting with what *they* call themselves).

[15:59] <NickE> I always thought that there was a lot more that could be done with that, with teh stepping discs etc

[15:59] <Lensman> I see you have one novel out, _Moonstruck_. Have you had any short stories published?

[15:59] <NickE> Ooooohh!

[16:00] <NickE> Bet we can't pronounce it

[16:00] <EML> In previous Known Space stories, you've never seen Puppeteers interact. You never saw a sane Puppeteer. Prepare for both.

[16:00] * Harry_Redd has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)

[16:00] <Agincourtdb> hehe

[16:00] <Lensman> What they call themselves sounds like a steam calliope exploding, of course. :)

[16:00] <NickE> This is true. This is *good* (what's coming)

[16:01] <NickE> well naturally

[16:01] <NickE> he'll be back

[16:01] <frgeek> mmm puppetter information

[16:01] <Lensman> Several Known Space fans will now have to wipe drool off their keyboards...

[16:01] <NickE> too late

[16:01] <Agincourtdb> I can see the movie poster now... "FLEET OF WORLDS: in space, no one can hear a steam calliope explode"

[16:01] <EML> Lensman, to date I have three books published (although the first, Probe, is out of print). Moonstruck, as you say, is recent (and came out this week in MM PB). The third is a collection called Creative Destruction.

[16:02] <EML> Yup, I also do short fiction. Some is in the collection. For a complete list, see my website

[16:02] <Lensman> So how did the collaboration with Larry work physically? Phone? E-mail?

[16:02] <Agincourtdb> I always had a problem with the description of Puppeteer vocals as it relates to their physiology...

[16:03] <frgeek> Probe I remeber that - a cloned human used by aliens for reconmassaince is returned to earth?, wasn;t there a sequel called counterprobe?

[16:03] <SeanS> Hi everyone

[16:03] <SteveS> Hi, Sean.

[16:03] <Agincourtdb> to have polyphony, you need seperate airstreams either going through different tubes or past different "vocal chords"

[16:03] <NickE> wb Sean

[16:03] <Agincourtdb> hi sean

[16:03] <EML> Larry & I mostly work by email (yes, with phone calls thrown in). Since I'm in Virginia and he's in California, face-to-face isn't practical.

[16:03] <Lensman> Hi Sean. EML (Ed Learner) is dropping juicy hints about _Fleet of Worlds_.

[16:03] <Fred> PROBE? Any relation to either TV series?

[16:04] <frgeek> Nevermind same titel differnt book

[16:04] <EML> frgeek: nope, that wasn't the Probe I wrote.

[16:04] <Lensman> I'm assuming Puppeteers have vocal chords in both throats.

[16:04] <Agincourtdb> that gives you two "voices"\

[16:04] <EML> Byline alert: Lerner is without an "a."

[16:05] <Agincourtdb> but the descriptions imply many different pitches simultaneously

[16:05] <Lensman> Sorry, "Evil"!

[16:05] <Lensman> Agin: Why is that a problem?

[16:05] <EML> Ah, Puppeteer physiology. Yes. you'll learn more about that, and reproduction, and mannerisms ...

[16:05] <Agincourtdb> duophony doesn't sound like a steam calliopy exploding: it sounds like organum..

[16:05] <NickE> agin with the drool!

[16:06] <Lensman> Picky, picky.

[16:06] <Agincourtdb> yeah

[16:06] <Agincourtdb> it's the musician in me

[16:06] <Agincourtdb> total nitpick

[16:06] <EML> There are Tibetan monks who somehow set up multiple tones with just the one set of vocal cords.

[16:06] <NickE> Throat siging

[16:06] <NickE> singing

[16:06] <NickE> ?

[16:07] <frgeek> I could not tell the differnce beween an cakkiopy and an organum if they expolded in frnmt of me.

[16:07] <SteveS> And their voice mechanism may not work like our reed instrument voice boxes.

[16:07] <EML> Puppeteers have two throats, and who's to say (well, besides Larry & me) how many independent sets of vocal cords are in each throat?

[16:07] <NickE> True

[16:07] <Lensman> I just *love* all Larry's descriptions of Nessus' screams. Every one of them is <a musical instrument> + <a violent destructive act>. The humor is something I can look forward to every time I re-read Rw.

[16:07] <Agincourtdb> sure, but if they're small, they're limited to high pitch

[16:08] <NickE> Creative Destruction look very interesting. One for the shopping basket :-)

[16:08] <EML> Actually, Puppeteers aren't small; they're just shorter than humans. In the story "The Soft Weapon" (in which he kicks a Kzin) we see that Nessus is quite massive.

[16:08] <Lensman> So perhaps they have different sets of vocal chords at different places along each throat. Hmmm...

[16:09] <Agincourtdb> they'd have to have many streams or many chords, of varying size, to result in the whole pipe organ/full orchestra descriptions being accurate

[16:09] <Lensman> Yah, the body is the size of a pony? Not human-sized.

[16:09] <Fred> louis expressed surprise that Nessus didn't weigh much more than he did

[16:09] * CatPasswd has joined #knownspace

[16:09] <NickE> I think Aggie meant the vocal chords

[16:09] <Agincourtdb> I'm saying their heads aare small

[16:09] <NickE> Hi Cat

[16:09] <Agincourtdb> and the chords are small

[16:09] <SteveS> Hi, Cat.

[16:09] <Agincourtdb> unless theyre down in the body

[16:09] <Fred> long necks

[16:09] <Agincourtdb> which i suppose is a possibility

[16:09] <CatPasswd> lo folks

[16:09] <Fred> plenty of room for cords

[16:09] <Agincourtdb> hi cat

[16:10] * Harry_Redd has joined #knownspace

[16:10] <Fred> hey harry

[16:10] <NickE> wb Frank

[16:10] <Lensman> Welcome Cat, Harry

[16:10] <Agincourtdb> Fred: the chords can't be in series, they have to act on separate airstreams to result in muoltiple pitches

[16:10] <Harry_Redd> Oh my. The system reset!

[16:10] * Bill has joined #knownspace

[16:10] <Fred> they have two throats :)

[16:10] <EML> Another thing I can share about FOW and JOW ... both will shed light on past events in the Known Space canon. We hope you will have several "aha" moments.

[16:10] <NickE> Hi Bill

[16:10] <Agincourtdb> wb

[16:10] <SteveS> Hi, Bill

[16:10] <Lensman> Agin: No, vocal chords vary pitch by how tightly they're stretched.

[16:11] <Agincourtdb> Fred: again, that's two pitches

[16:11] <NickE> Oh boy, thats just up our street Ed

[16:11] <Agincourtdb> Lens: I konw that

[16:11] <Bill> Greetings, Known Spacers!

[16:11] <Fred> hey bill

[16:11] <NickE> 'Lo

[16:11] <Harry_Redd> Any more about TRINOCs?

[16:11] <Harry_Redd> Hi Bill.

[16:11] <Agincourtdb> but to have two of them producing two pitces, they can't be acting on the same airstream

[16:11] <Lensman> Oho, retroactive continuity! The meat-and-potatoes of the LN list!

[16:11] <NickE> The puppeters may have dealt with the Trinocs longer than with humans

[16:12] <Fred> yes, we know that they did

[16:12] <Agincourtdb> the puppeteers will have dealt with everyone longer than humans

[16:12] <Fred> for a fact

[16:12] <NickE> well yeah :-)

[16:12] <Lensman> Agin: Okay, I see what you're saying. Like a pipe organ, any single pipe can only vibrate at one frequency.

[16:12] <Agincourtdb> right

[16:12] <EML> Louis Wu discovered Trinocs in "There Is A Tide." FOW and JOW both precede that story (but, he teases ... there IS a tie-in to that story).

[16:12] <Agincourtdb> one airstream = one pitch

[16:13] <NickE> This just gets better :-)

[16:13] <Agincourtdb> I'm going to buy this book, and eat it. Then I'm going to buy another copy to read ;-)

[16:13] <NickE> :-)

[16:13] <frgeek> Hmm maybe pupeetters have other opening on their bodies to briethabd thier mouths are only for eating. Does it say that they breath through thier mouths in any of teh books is tha just an assumption?

[16:13] <Lensman> Well, this may be one of those cases where an author shouldn't let the facts stand in the way of a good story. <g>

[16:13] <Bill> Knot Knessessarily ... the dolphin melon produces many resonances fron a single organ...

[16:14] <Harry_Redd> In pipe organs, the length and diameter of the pipe determines the pitch.

[16:14] <Agincourtdb> and each pipe has a separate airstream

[16:14] <NickE> No doubt that the whole list will be getting hold of this when it's out

[16:14] <Harry_Redd> Thank you Ed.

[16:14] <Lensman> I know it's said somewhere, maybe in the foreword to _Tales of Known Space_, that Puppeteer space is larger than Human space, so Puppeteers may be in contact with species we've never "met".

[16:15] <NickE> Pierin

[16:15] <EML> For a Puppeteer, lips and tongue serve as fingers. One small challenge of the books was to coordinate when characters spoke and when they manipulated things.

[16:15] <NickE> (no human interactions in canon)

[16:15] <Lensman> Fr: Nessus sucks from a bulb of warm carrot juice, so therefore it seems almost certain they breathe thru their throats.

[16:15] <NickE> " heads though

[16:15] <NickE> 2

[16:15] <Harry_Redd> I said it Lens. The Puppeteers travel far. I see it as a way to gainfully employ their insane.

[16:15] <SteveS> Parrots and other birds can reproduce all kinds of sounds, including speech, all without lips. I don't know how their voice boxes work, but it's another possibility.

[16:16] <Agincourtdb> hehe the entire puppeteer trading empire, considered as a works program for the mentally disabled

[16:16] <SteveS> Sounds abut right.

[16:16] <EML> Wait till you find out what *really* inspired General Products ... (evil maniacal laugh).

[16:17] <NickE> I don't see it like that. the insane are a vital part of their operations

[16:17] <Agincourtdb> "here, here's some paper and a box of crayons. Or, you could supervise all our dealings with alien races."

[16:17] <NickE> Oh you swine sir!

[16:17] <Bill> "Puppeteer wanna cracker ..." yeh right

[16:17] <Harry_Redd> More like mentally disturbed court. A way of keeping a disruptive influence from the general population.

[16:17] <NickE> That too

[16:17] <Fred> from ringworld:

[16:17] <Fred> "It's been a long time since college. Yon had a comniercial empire once, didn't you? What we like to call known space was just a part of it. We kww the Trinocs bought from you, and we didn't meet the Trinocs until twenty years ago."

[16:18] <NickE> Ta Fred

[16:18] <Agincourtdb> fred you're looking very orange today

[16:18] <Lensman> Well there's been some paranoid speculation that GP was just a way to keep other species from developing their *own* spacecraft, and therefore keep them technologically backward *and* dependent upon the Puppeteers.

[16:18] <Fred> I'm pretending to be a Kzin

[16:18] <Agincourtdb> hehe

[16:18] <Fred> although I supposed the color is redundant. I should merely scream and leap.

[16:18] <Agincourtdb> HAHA

[16:18] <NickE> :-)

[16:18] <Harry_Redd> Truly

[16:18] <Agincourtdb> I find your color verbose

[16:18] <frgeek> Lens true probbale but not conclusive. I was just throwing out ideas liek I am wont to do

[16:19] <Bill> Fred: The litter box is at <esc> ...

[16:19] <Agincourtdb> Ed: you see how we tend to run away with ourselves lol


[16:19] <NickE> <grin>

[16:19] <Lensman> If their trading empire is so important, why did they fold up their tent and sneak off into the night when the Puppeteer migration started? That suggests its primary purpose was manipulation of other species, not economic income.

[16:20] <Agincourtdb> have you met my pet Kzin, Fred-Ritt?

[16:20] <NickE> LOL

[16:20] <frgeek> Or it may be an indicator of how scared they were

[16:20] <Lensman> LOL scream an leap

[16:20] <Harry_Redd> If you're going to meddle with other races destiny, why not make it pay?

[16:20] <NickE> exactly

[16:20] * Bill has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)

[16:20] <Agincourtdb> that's the paranoia of the sane puppeteers acting from above

[16:20] <EML> Far above, someone mentioned stepping discs. I'm a computer guy by training (well, part of my training) -- I wrote functional specs for the telportation control system. And then, of course, had fun with it.

[16:20] <Agincourtdb> "You've had your fun, but now we have to bug out"

[16:21] <Agincourtdb> "don't forget the box of crayons"

[16:21] <NickE> Nice. Logical framework (within a SF setting) to play with

[16:21] <Lensman> Seven League Boots. Yah... sigh.

[16:21] <Harry_Redd> I always loved that scene in RE.

[16:21] <Lensman> Yes indeed.

[16:21] <NickE> Ya, that was a neat idea with teela

[16:21] <frgeek> EML Interesting. Must be way beyond our idea of foolproof.

[16:22] * Bill has joined #knownspace

[16:22] <Agincourtdb> hi Bill

[16:22] <Bill> Well, that was rude

[16:22] <NickE> HAs to be. Teh existing RW books make that clear (apart from Protectors that is)

[16:22] <NickE> wb Bill

[16:22] <frgeek> Bugless software. how novel!

[16:22] <Agincourtdb> oxymoron

[16:22] <EML> THere are a trillion Puppeteers on the home world ... think about how many stepping discs there must be.

[16:23] <Harry_Redd> Buggless SW. Often claimed but never seen!

[16:23] <NickE> Uh huh

[16:23] <Agincourtdb> well actually

[16:23] <Agincourtdb> 10 Print "hi"

[16:23] <Agincourtdb> 20 goto 10

[16:23] <Agincourtdb> bugless

[16:23] <frgeek> Well that why ist science fiction! :

[16:23] <Bill> Felix and David, did you post my version of the Lying Bastard anywhere? I'm curious about the reaction.

[16:23] <Harry_Redd> Bugless, but Chock FULL of "Features"!

[16:23] <NickE> Wahsaat?>

[16:23] <Lensman> I don't think so. If we'd stop evolving our computers, software would stabilize and there would be time to work the bugs out. Ultimately you may need to start from scratch and re-build from the ground up in a rigorous system to eliminate bugs.

[16:24] <EML> Um, "bugless" does not preclude "has modes of operation no one has ever thought before to exploit."

[16:24] <Harry_Redd> Very good reactions Bill. I don't know if it got to the K.S. Site though.

[16:24] <NickE> re Protectors messing with the network in RWT and RWC

[16:24] <Lensman> Bill: You said Felix was going to, so I didn't. But I can do so fairly quickly if needed.

[16:25] <Agincourtdb> careful about Tanj stuff'

[16:25] <EML> Consider: Larry created impenetrable General Product hulls -- and then wrote two stories that involved loopholes.

[16:25] <Agincourtdb> if you know who is possibly going to read the log

[16:25] <NickE> Ah

[16:25] <Bill> I don't know how to from here, Lens.

[16:25] <frgeek> LENS well for us we put functionality first and bug eradictaion second. For pupperrets I thionk it would be the other way arround. "safty first" is not just a motto with them

[16:25] <NickE> Quite

[16:25] <Harry_Redd> Ed, Bill is a well known artist and did a rendering of LYEING BASTARD for a COn Cover. If you have a client that will accept a file transfer, I'll DCC it to you.

[16:26] <Lensman> Fr I agree 100%.

[16:26] <EML> I don't normally do ftp, Is there a url I can just click?

[16:26] <frgeek> You agree? darn thats no fum

[16:26] <Agincourtdb> hehe

[16:26] <Harry_Redd> Not that I know of.

[16:26] <NickE> Thinking beyond the box is always neat

[16:26] <Lensman> Oh sorry... you blockheaded idjit! Puppeteer want their bells and whistles more than we do! They're into hedonism, doncha know?

[16:27] <Bill> Felix, you make me blush. I'd just like a review from experts.

[16:27] <Lensman> Just a minute, I'll post Bill's painting.

[16:27] <frgeek> Heck I have yet to see this box everyone talks about.

[16:27] <EML> Harry: I have broadband. Should be okay to just attach it to an email.

[16:27] <NickE> :-)

[16:28] <EML> Huh! Sudden silence.

[16:28] <NickE> It happens

[16:28] <Agincourtdb> we're hunting wabbits

[16:28] <Bill> Who can think of things more fun than a toothache?

[16:28] <NickE> LOL

[16:29] * django has joined #knownspace

[16:29] <EML> I got WAY behind earlier. If anyone had a question I hadn't yet answered ... remind me.

[16:29] <SteveS> Hi, Django

[16:29] <django> greetz all

[16:29] * Lambert has joined #knownspace

[16:29] <SteveS> Hi, Dave

[16:29] <Bill> Please let me know, this one's occupying most of my attention ...

[16:29] <NickE> brb

[16:29] <Lambert> hi from Hoboken NJ

[16:29] <NickE> hi dave

[16:29] <Lambert> What's the hot topic?

[16:30] <EML> Puppeteer vocal cords.

[16:30] <Lensman> Ed Lerner is here, Puppeteers and the upcoming _Fleet of Worlds_ is topic.

[16:30] <SteveS> EML is the co-author of the upcoming Puppeteer Fleet of Worlds books.

[16:30] <Lambert> I thought Puppeteers had tympanium, not vocal chords

[16:30] <Bill> Greetings, Django & Lambert from Hoboken.

[16:30] <frgeek> EML Ooh did you you just a plotpiont out with the "bugless comment?

[16:30] <django> hola bill

[16:30] <SteveS> That would work, too, like organic speakers.

[16:31] <NickE> behind too. Hi Neil

[16:31] <Lensman>

[16:31] <Lensman> Title of Bill's painting is "Speaker Hits the Brakes"

[16:31] <Bill> (Bated breath...)

[16:32] <django> hi nick

[16:32] <NickE> just dl it now

[16:32] <EML> I don't think I revealed any plot detail here, but sure: "bugless does not mean safe" does matter.

[16:32] <NickE> (bloddy dialup)

[16:32] <Fred> the chat is still young, EML

[16:32] <NickE> Hmm!

[16:32] <CatPasswd> There's no such thing as idiot-proof. They'll just invent a better idiot

[16:32] <Lensman> Can the Puppeteers "jump" from world to world, or just from one place to another on the same world.

[16:33] <NickE> Aye

[16:33] <NickE> relay satelites

[16:33] <Lensman> EVERYONE should look at the link I just posted. I think you'll enjoy it.

[16:33] <django> nice render, Bill

[16:33] <NickE> should be able to go anywhare in teh Rosette

[16:33] <EML> In one of the Ringworld books (I think RE), we learn that a jump cannot absorb more than a limited amlunt of kinetic energy.

[16:33] <CatPasswd> That wing is huge

[16:33] <Bill> Very kind, Dave. I'm just looking for reviews and corrections.

[16:34] <Lambert> Lensman, what does %20 translate to?

[16:34] <SteveS> Very nice. The wings look really good, including the reactionless thruster discs.

[16:34] <SteveS> Space.

[16:34] <SteveS> =%20

[16:34] <Lensman> Dave L: Does the link not work for you?

[16:34] <NickE> (still dl the pic!)

[16:34] <Agincourtdb> thats gorgeous

[16:34] <Lambert> link does not work for me

[16:34] <EML> You'll perhaps recall that when Speaker was in trouble (being roasted inside his ship), Louis could not jump all the way around Ringworld to help. Louis first had to get close enough before he could step into Speaker's trapped ship.

[16:35] <Agincourtdb> it is now my desktop

[16:35] <NickE> Of course

[16:35] <Lensman> I think it's an underscore _

[16:35] <Harry_Redd> Ed, I just E-Mailed the pic to you.

[16:35] <EML> Cool, Harry. Thanks.

[16:35] <NickE> The Kinetic energy thing was quite a point (also in earkier KS stories with transfer booths)

[16:35] <Bill> Agincourt: ... I'm flattered!

[16:35] <SteveS> Here's my stab at it, from many years ago:

[16:35] <Fred> right, but is the fleet rotating around an axis at high speed like the ringworld does?

[16:35] <Lensman> Ed: Yah, it's in RE where there's a limit to how far 'round the ring they can jump.

[16:35] <Fred> that was the problem

[16:36] <frgeek> Well you pick and choose your pionts on the planet you arrive to minimize or even eliminate and diffence in kenetic energy.

[16:36] <django> yeah - my one sticking point was when stepping disks when from an open transfer booth to a portal

[16:37] <EML> On a planet (or ringworld) surface, the farther apart you get, the bigger the difference in velocity (because velocity is a vector).

[16:37] <Lambert> someone e-mail it to

[16:37] <Lambert> my browser won't accept a space in a URL

[16:37] <django> you could jump rimwall to rimwall, but only through a limited arc

[16:37] <Agincourtdb> else you'd arrive on fire or soemthing liek that

[16:37] <Agincourtdb> type much Aggie?

[16:37] <Lambert> heh heh... fire! fire!

[16:38] <SteveS> I've sent you a copy.

[16:38] <Lambert> thanky

[16:38] <NickE> Bill... thats a damn nice picture

[16:38] <django> with Flash Crowd, it's the inertia that kills you

[16:38] <Lensman> The problem *I* have with stepping discs is firing a laser into one and having a laser beam come out the other side! If the booths work by "grabbing" whatever is there and flicking it to another place, there should be a time lag between one flick and the next. So how can a continuous laser beam come out?

[16:38] <Agincourtdb> the intertia is converted into heat

[16:38] <frgeek> I meant form one planet to another planet. of the FOW are close I can see why they can't telpoet beween them. Now rigworld has it own set of problems.

[16:38] <Agincourtdb> hence the fire

[16:38] <EML> Puppeteers being safety conscious would build stepping discs to disallow any unsafe jump.

[16:38] <Fred> you should be able to go pole to pole around the rosette

[16:39] <django> heh - i wish I still had the original models for this:

[16:39] <SteveS> The dish assemblies on the pods are nice.

[16:39] * oneukum has joined #knownspace

[16:39] <Harry_Redd> Err no Fred. Planetary Rotation problems I would think.

[16:39] <frgeek> Amybe the tiem lag is less than the time it takes tehlaser beam to traverse the disk?

[16:39] <django> Lensman: that was a point I put to Larry in one of the chats

[16:39] <Bill> Nice work, Steve ... we think alike!

[16:39] <Fred> "Stepping discs can absorb kinetic energies of up to two hundred feet per second"

[16:39] <NickE> Hi Oliver

[16:39] <Agincourtdb> they're probably rotating in harmony

[16:39] <Lensman> Yes, I agree, since the FOW are not orbiting with the speed of Ringworld's rotation, why can't they jump from one to another? From the description in Rw-- where Louis sees the rosette flash past== they *must* be fairly close together.

[16:40] <Agincourtdb> same day length

[16:40] <Lambert> gotta go babysit my very own Kzin cub

[16:40] <SteveS> The inside of the GP2 hull could use some more detail, though. It doesn't look like people can live there, and I got the impression that the hyperdrive shunt covered most of the bottom inner surface of the hull.

[16:40] <Harry_Redd> I think Ed is finding out why Larry values the First Saturday Chat sessions. ;-)

[16:40] <Agincourtdb> you'll have orbital velocity to consider

[16:40] <Lambert> have a nice chat

[16:40] <django> adios, Lambert

[16:40] <oneukum> Hi

[16:40] <Fred> the hindmost says stepping discs don't have distance limits, only energy limits

[16:40] <Lambert> I think Ed is finding out why Larry doesn't always attend! LOL

[16:40] <EML> You guys are touching a lot of key aspects to the puzzle: stepoping discs, GP hulls, software technique ...

[16:40] <SteveS> I had real trouble coming up with that detail when I was working on it.

[16:40] <NickE> Ya, thats how I imagined how the shunt would fit in the hull

[16:41] <django> hi oneukum

[16:41] <Agincourtdb> Ed: we run with the ball :-)

[16:41] <SteveS> Hi, Oliver

[16:41] <NickE> We like puzzles

[16:41] <Lensman> Welcome Oliver

[16:41] <Lambert> I like "stepoping discs" it has a great visual

[16:41] <Agincourtdb> gimme the ball gimme the ball gimme the baaaaaaaaaaall

[16:41] <Agincourtdb> hehe

[16:41] <NickE> :-)

[16:41] <EML> The Hindmost improved stepping discs during the course of his exile on Ringworld. The ones he first arrived with had the energy limits.

[16:41] <Lensman> So Ed, have you discussed the laser beam thing with Larry?

[16:41] <Agincourtdb> hop on pop, stepopoing disc

[16:42] <Fred> right, that's the energy limit I quoted; the stock model

[16:42] <django> IIRC one of the early KS stories had inertial disparity used to aid a murder

[16:42] <Harry_Redd> Bill, From descriptions, the H.D Shunt is golden and looks 1/2 melted. At the didtance in your picture, I suspect it would look like an enlongated teardrop.

[16:42] <Lambert> Dr. Suess in KNown Space?

[16:42] <EML> Lensman: what laser beam thing?

[16:42] <Lambert> I would not eat tham in the fog, i would no eat them with a Grog

[16:42] <Agincourtdb> one kzin, two kzin, red kzin, blue kzin

[16:42] <Bill> Thank you, Nick ... what's *WRONG* witb it is what I'd like to hear! Serious critiques from you, the experts!

[16:42] <NickE> LOL

[16:42] <Lambert> byeeeee

[16:42] <Fred> laser beams coming continuously out of a stepping disc

[16:42] <django> EML: in Throne, a beam weapon transits a disc into the needle

[16:42] * Lambert has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)

[16:43] <django> Lensman: I would not eat them from a tin, I would not eat them with a kzin!

[16:43] <Agincourtdb> hehe

[16:43] <EML> I guess I forgot that scene, but that doesn't impact FOW or JOW.

[16:43] <Agincourtdb> who will speak for the grogs?!

[16:43] <Lensman> In one of the Rw sequels, I think _The Ringworld Throne_, it shows a laser beam coming out of a stepping disc and hitting the roof of the Needle. How is that possible, unless a stepping disc is in continuous operation?

[16:43] <SteveS> The number I remember is 20 ft in diameter for the GP hull, which means that each crew cabin would take up a god chunk of the cross section of the hull, with just a little room for a hallway.

[16:44] <frgeek> If a disk has a reset time of a nanosecond or less I can see it transposting a laser.

[16:44] <Lensman> Oh well, that may be a problem which cannot be fixed. If not, better ignored.

[16:44] <django> Lensman: I suppose you could postulate a plasma weapon, then the stream would just be high energy fluid which comes through with its momentum intact

[16:44] <Bill> The dish assemblies are directly stolen from my own model of "Discovery" from "2001.

[16:44] <SteveS> :-)

[16:45] <NickE> Thought they looked familiar. AE-35 units right :-)

[16:45] <django> heh

[16:45] <oneukum> Why would light lose its momentum?

[16:45] <SteveS> I figured that Speaker's horseshoe-shaped control panel would take u a lot of the long, pointy nose.

[16:45] <NickE> yes

[16:46] <Agincourtdb> okay, I have to go join the human race now

[16:46] <NickE> Always had a prblem with the extreme narrowness of teh #2 hull. Very restrictive on space

[16:46] <django> ROFLMAO!

[16:46] <frgeek> IE a one nanosecond legth of laser is tranported, it taked a nanosecond for it to leave the booth/disk, and then the next lenghth is teleported

[16:46] <SteveS> Everything would be really cramped diameter-wise, but they can stretch out along the length.

[16:46] <Agincourtdb> good too hear about FOW and JOW

[16:46] <Lensman> That's true, about 20 ft or according to the game, 6 meters.

[16:46] <django> my chat client has a "novel" theme

[16:46] <Harry_Redd> Adios COurt have a good one.

[16:46] <Agincourtdb> I'll see you guys later

[16:46] <Agincourtdb> :-)

[16:46] <Agincourtdb> enjoy

[16:46] <django> it puts the chat in written style - heh

[16:47] * Agincourtdb has quit IRC

[16:47] <frgeek> Lewis? I am sensing a problem with the AE-35 antenna

[16:47] <EML> I can imagine a pulse laser streaming through a stepping disc. It's often the energy density that makes a laser dangerous, not the total energy.

[16:47] <NickE> I guess Narrow Boats on canals are a good analogy, barely more than 8 feet across IIRC

[16:47] <NickE> And folks live on these

[16:48] <Lensman> Yes, if the disc cycles *extremely* fast it will work. What would be the advantage to building it that way? Can you do radio communication thru the stepping discs?

[16:49] <NickE> I would have thought so

[16:49] <Bill> Even for Speaker's arms, there's no way he'd fill a 30' hull diameter ... this is my third try to send this, is there *anybody out there* ...?

[16:49] <Lensman> Fr: Wrong universe!

[16:49] <NickE> They handle a very complex signal anyway, radio is simple by comparison

[16:49] <Harry_Redd> The difference between a byucket of water thrown in your face and the sanme volume through a high pressure Hose Ed?

[16:50] <NickE> probably only a software tweak to tune in EM waves

[16:50] <EML> bucket vs. hose: good analogy.

[16:50] <Fred> the lander would fill a hull pretty fast

[16:50] <Harry_Redd> Me Bill.

[16:50] <Fred> especially given that maybe half of it is already taken up by the hyperdrive

[16:50] <Bill> Sand on the beach, or sand at orbital velocity...?

[16:50] <Lensman> Bill: Can you see this message?

[16:50] <NickE> But the lander was in Hot Needle a #3 hull

[16:51] <NickE> *much* bigger

[16:51] <Fred> yeah, I can't find a diameter for a #3 hull . . .

[16:51] <EML> Unless stepping discs move stuff faster than light (never said, to my knowledge), there's no advantage to sending radio through a stepping disc.

[16:52] <SteveS> It's 20 feet, and because of the circular cross-section, that width is only for a small part of the "height" of any given room.

[16:52] <NickE> No, but I bet you could if need be

[16:52] <Fred> 20 feet is the #2 hull

[16:52] <SteveS> (20 ft for #2 hull.)

[16:52] <Lensman> I went *very* carefully thru RE can could not find any specifications for length, width etc. There are some hints, from the size of the lander and the fact Louis doesn't have headroom to do jumping jacks.

[16:52] <NickE> No a #3 is more than 20ft

[16:52] <NickE> Hang on, i'll get the game

[16:52] <Harry_Redd> I'd suspect a disadvantage Ed. Translation lag.

[16:53] <Bill> Crickets chirp ... have I been booted again?

[16:53] <oneukum> They are stated to work at light speed. Security against listening in? Signal loss?

[16:53] <SteveS> I cheated. There are good GP#2 specs in one of the stories from Neutron Star.

[16:53] <Lensman> Yah, the lander and its bay mean the #3 has to be bigger than 30 ft.

[16:53] <frgeek> Ther is an advanage- you do npt have to worry about interferance, and have walls made of a mile of lead.

[16:53] <SteveS> But not in RW.

[16:53] <SteveS> The #3 is bigger that 30', IIRC.

[16:53] <EML> I lost track ... whay are we discussing the diameter of GP hulls and/or their roominess?

[16:53] <Harry_Redd> 30 M diameter gives room for 2w or maybe 3 transverse decks Lens.

[16:53] <SteveS> I couldn't find my folder with my original concept blueprints I sketched out on graph paper.

[16:54] * Bill has quit IRC (Ping timeout)

[16:54] * Flying_away is now known as FlyingDragon

[16:54] <Harry_Redd> Ed, a better visual picture of what the ships look like on the inside. I see it as a way to generate a common visual image.

[16:54] <FlyingDragon> Hello, did I miss anything?

[16:54] <Lensman> Lander is 30' x 60 ft. So the #3 has to be at least 38' wide. 40' sounds reasonable.

[16:54] <Harry_Redd> Much Carol, but it's good to sdee you.

[16:55] <NickE> #3 hull 150m long (500 ft) by 35m diameter (over 100ft)

[16:55] <SteveS> We're trying to flesh out what the interior of the Lying Bastard would look like.

[16:55] <SteveS> 40' sounds familiar.

[16:55] <Lensman> Carol: Yah, we're having a great talk with Ed Lerner! You'll have to read the transcript.

[16:55] <Harry_Redd> Welcom Resident Black Belt!

[16:55] <NickE> source Ringworld Companion supplement to the RPG

[16:55] <FlyingDragon> Had a Covenant Group meeting at my house I forgot about until 10 minutes before it was supposed to start.

[16:55] <FlyingDragon> I've got it.

[16:56] <FlyingDragon> Ed Lerner=EML?

[16:56] <NickE> yup

[16:56] <NickE> Hi Carol

[16:56] <EML> Yup, that's me.

[16:56] <FlyingDragon> Active?

[16:56] <EML> Harry: will the transcript be posted?

[16:56] <Harry_Redd> Flying Dragon is Carol Phillips Ed.

[16:56] <FlyingDragon> Ah, yes. Hi Ed. Thanks for writing w/ Larry and so increasing his output! We appreciate it!

[16:56] <FlyingDragon> At your service!

[16:56] <NickE> I should think so especially interesting ones like this

[16:56] <SeanS> yes

[16:57] <EML> Ah, the suspense builds up unbearably :-)

[16:57] * FlyingDragon forgets that EVERYONE isn't intimately aquainted with her!

[16:57] <Harry_Redd> Yes Ed. After Sean gets back and sobers up from the party he's at.

[16:57] <NickE> <sigh>

[16:57] <Lensman> RPG says #3 35 meters x 150 meters. I don't think that's right. IIRC Louis could see the landing bay under the floor of his room/cell in the Needle.

[16:57] <NickE> :-)

[16:57] <SeanS> havent gone to party yet

[16:57] <FlyingDragon> Nice to see you all.

[16:57] <Lensman> And it's specified the lander nearly filled the boat bay.

[16:57] * Bill has joined #knownspace

[16:57] <Harry_Redd> Ok.

[16:58] <Harry_Redd> WB Bill.

[16:58] <NickE> But these things are liner size

[16:58] <EML> So are there other enigmas left over from the ringworld series that have folks curious?

[16:58] <Harry_Redd> Many!

[16:58] <NickE> Oh plenty

[16:58] <Bill> If the page said I left, it's a Lying Bastard, too ... I was EVICTED

[16:58] <EML> details????

[16:58] <NickE> Such a big playground

[16:59] <Lensman> No clue to how long the Needle was. Maybe if I went back and looked at a description of how high the lava hill was it was embedded in?

[16:59] <NickE> 150m

[16:59] <NickE> it's a big sucker

[16:59] <Harry_Redd> One would suspect there would be effects on many races after the Puppeteers withdraw from KnownSpace. we don't see the effects of that.

[16:59] <Lensman> Enigmas? Oh, Ed, where do we start??

[17:00] <Harry_Redd> Just on Humans.

[17:00] <NickE> Not sure what official connon sizes are (some contention on some specs given)

[17:00] <Lensman> I'd like to see a description of how Scrith is formed, for one. And we've argued over GP hulls a lot-- do they actually have a motor embedded inside the hull, and if so why is it invisible?

[17:00] <Harry_Redd> Intersteller Trade makes races economies "Interactive".

[17:00] <NickE> One of the Bey stories must quote the sizes

[17:01] <EML> I promise you'll learn more about GP hulls.

[17:01] <django> neutron star, i think

[17:01] <Harry_Redd> Ed, My take was that GP Hulls are grown around the BIG elements of a ship... Like ENGINES! and their mountings.

[17:02] <Bill> Hey, I bought into the "invisible" mlotor idea ... it's a warp drive, it doesn't require moving parts to bend space.

[17:02] <NickE> Enigmas? Scrith obviously, the genuine timelline fo construction, seeding, speciation etc

[17:02] <Lensman> "Neutron Star" and "At the Core" specify sizes. But there's a discrepancy in the size of the #4 hull (Long Shot). In "At the Core" it's 1000 feet, in Ringworld and RC it's nearly a mile.

[17:02] <EML> FOW and JOW won't mention Ringworld, so no news on scrith.

[17:02] <frgeek> I still think that the puppetters have a secret way of sutting down hulls so they cannot be used agaist them. I don't trust puppetters.

[17:03] <NickE> Can't have it all :-)

[17:03] <EML> Sigmund doesn't trust Puppeteers, either. What kind of species is willing to be called Puppeteers?

[17:03] <Lensman> Yah, we *really* want a story about how the Ringworld was built. That summary Prosperine gave in RC was only an appetizer!

[17:03] <SteveS> Neutron Star gives #2 as 20' diameter, 300' length.

[17:03] <FlyingDragon> We don't alwasy have a choice in what others call us.

[17:03] <Harry_Redd> Great minds FrGeek. I don'

[t trust them either.

[17:03] <NickE> Though the puppeteers had alreday caused the Fall of the Cities by FOW time

[17:04] <FlyingDragon> Most names for Art movements were created as insults by people outside the movement.

[17:04] <oneukum> Would a herbivore be capable of being insulted?

[17:04] <Lensman> I believe the hulls do have a motor inside, and that it *is* invisible. Not impossible with nanotech, I don't think. Not sure how much Puppeteers use nanotech, tho.

[17:04] <SteveS> Bulls sure seem to be!

[17:04] <NickE> More than they are saying I bet

[17:05] <EML> FOW and JOW won't contradict Ringworld et. al ... they just don't deal with that topic.

[17:05] <FlyingDragon> Herbevores don't take offence? Why couldn't you insult one? It is intellegence one needs to be insulted (although sometimes it does indeed seem that it is lack thereof)

[17:06] <NickE> Wouldn't necessarily expect them to deal with RW (there's your next project right there :-)

[17:06] <django> Lensman: how about if the hull molecule is bi-state, and the puppeteers can signal the generator to change state?

[17:06] <Bill> Hi, FD ! If you were here, I missed that!

[17:06] <Lensman> Re formation of GP hulls: To reiterate, "At the Core" mentions spacecraft companies that depend on a supply of GP hulls for business, so I'm pretty sure GP makes only the hulls. That's also supported by Bey asking a Puppeteer in "At the Core" if GP is branching out into building complete spaceships.

[17:06] <frgeek> Yes, Prospertine is oblviously a puppetter plant, maybe grown from a vat by either the other Protectors or more likely the puppetters to hide teh fact they are teh ones who built the ringworld. (chime in x-files music) :)

[17:06] <Fred> some places say a number 2 hull is 100 feet, and others 100 meters

[17:06] <NickE> That seems fairly clear

[17:06] <oneukum> To be insulted you need to care about status.

[17:07] <EML> I'm going to decline to reveal anything about GP makes hulls. Heh heh heh.

[17:07] <CatPasswd> spoilsport

[17:07] <NickE> Now, criticise a puppeteer's mane now....

[17:07] <Harry_Redd> ONe would think that an ALIEN's preception of status wouldn't count against your real status with your race.

[17:07] <Lensman> Django: I can certainly believe the Puppeteers could remotely shut down a hull if they needed to.

[17:07] <NickE> brb

[17:08] <FlyingDragon> SOME puppeteers don't care about their manes, although they do seem to be a bit of a dandy in that regard.

[17:08] <SteveS> I stick with Larry's original size description for #2 hulls, which was very detailed. The other hull sizes aren't as solidly described anywhere.

[17:08] <Harry_Redd> Visualizing the suprise to an alien attacking a puppeteer while insode a GP hull. ;-)

[17:08] <Lensman> I can't really see the Puppeteers feeling "insulted" about getting that label. It's not an insulting term.

[17:09] <FlyingDragon> Don't we as humans care about percieved status with people outside of the status game? I'd think we would still care what people MORE outside the status game felt about our status.

[17:09] <Harry_Redd> Insulting? No. Descritpive? YEA!

[17:09] <django> Lensman: ISTR in Asteroid Queen, the Thrint had a beam weapon which would convert a small percentage of normal matter into antimatter... effect on a GP hull would be interesting...

[17:09] <EML> Consider national and ethnic names here on Earth. Some are decidely non-PC, and not used in polite company. The implication is that Puppeteers don't mind the connotation of being manipulative. Why?

[17:09] <Harry_Redd> We might Carol, but would an alien?

[17:10] <FlyingDragon> Maybe they dont' have to subtlties of English down enough to understand it is not a merely discriptive term.

[17:10] <Bill> I built my #2 hull very carefully ... the wing was describes as an oversized delta with comm pods and fusion drive disks that rotated up and down from the wing.

[17:11] <frgeek> Hmm how would you insult a pupeeter? "Hey, your fathers chew beef jerky!"

[17:11] <FlyingDragon> I mean visually discriptive/

[17:11] <Harry_Redd> Perhaps they consider it a "double Blind". Call them manipulators often enough and when they DO manipulate, it is disregarded.

[17:11] * FlyingDragon laughs at frgeek

[17:11] <Lensman> Django: I don't consider MKW stories canonical. However, there's a rateher glaring weakness of GP hulls never exploited. They are proof against temperature into, what was it, several thousand degrees? So you use a Puppeteer disintegrator, and create a fusion point against the hull. Poof! No more hull.

[17:11] <Harry_Redd> Insult? YOU BELONG IN THE FRONT RANK!

[17:12] <EML> Puppeeters are always described as fluent speakers of Interworld. I'm inclined to think they understand the implications of the name humans give them.

[17:12] <NickE> agreed

[17:13] <Fred> <SteveS> I stick with Larry's original size description for #2 hulls, which was very detailed. The other hull sizes aren't as solidly described anywhere.

[17:13] <NickE> skilled in communication

[17:13] <Fred> #1 is a sphere the size of a basketball

[17:13] <django> sorry to chat & dash, but I have to pick up a friend at pierson in an hour - ttfn

[17:13] <NickE> bye Neil

[17:13] <Fred> #4 is a sphere either a mile across or around, take your pick :)

[17:13] <Harry_Redd> The Chineese call all non chineese FOREIGH DEVILS. Some people care about it, most don't.

[17:13] <EML> pack a trillion people onto a world, and we'd learn to communicate, too.

[17:13] <django> catch you all at the post-chat chat, if there is one this time ;)

[17:13] <FlyingDragon> Is it really a HULL if it is a storage container? Are their PEOPLE that small? Even the bebebeque arent' small enough.

[17:13] <Lensman> Ed: Frankly I never gave it much thought. I presume the name got established in Human culture before there was a lot of contact. After that, it would be hard to change by outside pressure. And of course, that fan of Cecil the Seasick Sea Serpent had no idea the label he hung on them was appropriate in more than one way!

[17:14] <FlyingDragon> I;ll be here later, but can't stay long now.

[17:14] <django> Harry_Redd: Gwailohs

[17:14] <Harry_Redd> Adios Neil.

[17:14] * django has quit IRC (Quit: This foreign devil is leaving :))

[17:14] <Harry_Redd> Pack a trillion people into one world and you end up with a common language.

[17:15] <Fred> why?

[17:15] <frgeek> And why ar etehy called "pierson's" puppeters? forgive me if thsi is common knowlege here

[17:15] <Fred> the more people we pack into a city now, the more languages we get, not less

[17:15] <SteveS> First human to see one was Olaf Pierson.

[17:15] <NickE> The guy who saw them was called Pierson

[17:15] <EML> okay, take "foreign devils." my guess is that Chinese *diplomats* don't use the term while working.

[17:15] <Lensman> Pierson is the name of the human who made first contact with Puppeteers.

[17:15] <Fred> what nick said

[17:15] <Harry_Redd> Carol, the storage container for a nut is sometimes called a HULL.

[17:16] <FlyingDragon> Yes, Redd. I see.

[17:16] <Harry_Redd> Pierson Discovered them FrGeek. He'd been watching the BBEANIE & CECIL Revival shows.

[17:16] <FlyingDragon> Thought abotu nameing Keegan Peirson. After all, he is "Peter's Son"

[17:16] <Lensman> Everyone inside a GP hull is a nut? :)

[17:17] <Harry_Redd> No, they don't Ed, they use the National noun or proper names of the people involved.

[17:17] <Fred> here's a quote from THE SOFT WEAPON, if it's not too long:

[17:17] <Fred> The first man to see a puppeteer had done so during a Campish revival of "Time for Beany" reruns. He had come running back to the scout ship, breathless and terrified, screaming, "Take off! The planet's full of monsters!"

[17:17] <Fred> oops. too long

[17:17] <Lensman> Worldwide electronic communication would seem to eventually result in a common language. That's already happening here on Earth, and Puppeteer culture is very old.

[17:17] <Fred> oh, no it wasn't, just lagged. I thought the hyperspace monsters got it

[17:18] <Lensman> LOL

[17:18] <FlyingDragon> So, the puppetters allowed the ship to land with no interferance.

[17:18] <Fred> yeah, and the planet was FULL of them

[17:18] <Harry_Redd> Why not Carol. New Trading clients!

[17:18] <EML> The first contact was not on a Pupeeter world.

[17:18] <Lensman> I'm *not* assuming the first contact with Puppeteers was on the puppeteer homeworld. In fact, it seems extremely unlikely.

[17:19] <Lensman> Echo... echo...

[17:19] <NickE> Impossible I'd bet

[17:19] <Fred> if it had been, they'd hae never told the story :)

[17:19] <SteveS> Exactly.

[17:19] <EML> EML

[17:19] <Lensman> That's right, they would have bribed/blackmailed him to keep quiet.

[17:19] <Harry_Redd> Memory wipe is a marvelous thing.

[17:19] * Bill has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)

[17:19] <frgeek> Thanks I did not remember that

[17:20] <SeanS> This looks to be an excellent chat log... I will pack it up and shoot it to Mark Firestone first thing in the morning.

[17:20] <NickE> Bill's not having much luck

[17:20] <NickE> Good idea Sean. Been v interesting

[17:20] <Lensman> Carol's story ("A Different Kind of Loving") gives Puppeteers memory wipe technology. Is that anywhere in the canon?

[17:20] <Harry_Redd> It mostlikely will be posted in the LOG Section of

[17:20] <NickE> MAny Kinds Of Loving

[17:20] <Lensman> Sorry

[17:21] <NickE> no big

[17:21] <SeanS> depending on Mark's schedule, it should be posted on sometime tomorrow

[17:21] <FlyingDragon> What? MKOL? I dotn' want it posted.

[17:22] <oneukum> It is getting late here. Good bye.

[17:22] <SeanS> no, the log

[17:22] <Lensman> Bye Oliver

[17:22] <FlyingDragon> g'bye, oliver

[17:22] * oneukum has quit IRC

[17:22] <EML> Anyone mind of I link to today's chatlog from my website?

[17:22] <FlyingDragon> Sean, ah

[17:22] <Harry_Redd> Adios Oliver.

[17:22] <Lensman> Oh, we'll be famous! :)

[17:22] <Harry_Redd> Sean, Send Ed a copy please.

[17:22] <FlyingDragon> EML, are you interested in reading my fan story? Larry liked it, although he didn't care for the ending.

[17:23] <Harry_Redd> I'll send you his E-Mail iIF it's ok with Ed.

[17:23] * Bill has joined #knownspace

[17:23] <Harry_Redd> Sean is trustworthy Ed.

[17:23] <SeanS> fine by me

[17:23] <EML> If the log will be on, I'll just link to it. No need to duplicate the log.

[17:23] <Harry_Redd> WB Bill.

[17:24] <Bill> Well, this is tiresome ... Hi again

[17:24] <Harry_Redd> You might like to have a referance copy Ed.

[17:24] <EML> it's Mr. Bill!

[17:24] <Lensman> The implications of a Puppeteer fetus being brought to term in the "mother"'s stomach is interesting, altho Larry did not choose to incorporate that into canon.

[17:24] <Bill> Hello, EML ... OOOOOH NOOOO!

[17:24] <Harry_Redd> I think the Puppeteers are lieing about that.

[17:25] <FlyingDragon> TY, Lensman.

[17:25] <Lensman> Well Carol should know if Lessus was lying. :)

[17:25] <EML> FOW explains much about Puppeteer mating and reproduction (among other mysteries to be revealed).

[17:26] <Lensman> Bill, are you accessing this chat via IRC or the Java Client?

[17:26] <FlyingDragon> Part of my point in that story was to detail possibilities of pp reporduction in such a way so as to not violate canon, yet keep them vegetarian, I mean... herbavore RATHER than vegetarian.

[17:26] <Lensman> "TY" ?

[17:26] <FlyingDragon> AH!

[17:26] <Bill> Java, off the Niven website.

[17:26] <Harry_Redd> Carol, if you were as paranoid as a Puppeteer, would YOU want an ginganeering race to know anything oabout your reproductive methods?

[17:26] * FlyingDragon looking forward to reading that part of FOW!!!

[17:27] <EML> enjoy, Carol.

[17:27] <Lensman> Bill: Come on over to the light side of the force! Download and install mIRC and you won't get kicked off.

[17:27] <FlyingDragon> I have control of the gengeneered species, and I dont' have to risk MY life in childbirth? Sound good to me.

[17:27] <Fred> I use java off the niven site and I've never been kicked off

[17:27] <NickE> been pretty good for me too

[17:27] <EML> I've also been using java access from the niven site without problem.

[17:27] <FlyingDragon> Bill, have you re-booted recently? Maybe it is some other program you are running at the same time?

[17:27] <Lensman> Fred: Some have problems with Java client, some don't.

[17:28] <Harry_Redd> We've been experianceing Power "flickers" here.

[17:29] <Bill> Dave, I'm lucky to be online at all ... computer probs, remember? I can't load SP2 on this beast yet after its crash, and my laptop just went into the hospital (2 weeks before RadCon, no less!)

[17:29] <Lensman> When I was still on dial-up I had all kinds of problems with the Java client. I *still* cannot run a rescources-hog game like Civilization II at the same time. mIRC is so much nicer!

[17:29] <EML> do not adjust your set. we control the horizontal. we control the vertical ...

[17:29] <NickE> heh

[17:31] <Fred> I hated mirc with a fiery vengeance. If I still had to use it I wouldn't come here at all.

[17:31] <EML> Before terribly much longer, I am going to have to bail. So: are there any more curiosity bumps out there needing scratching re FOW?

[17:31] <Lensman> The Puppeteer's "mother" client species would be much easier to believe if it were a genegineered animal. But I think Nessus or Hindmost say the symbotic relationship happened before Puppeteers developed technological civilization. Of course it's easy to dismiss that as a lie, but there are some fascinating symbiotic relationships right here on earth, so I don't see that as impossible.

[17:32] <FlyingDragon> I'll have to agree with you, Lensman, as you have read my story since I have!

[17:32] <EML> Puppeteers lie? Oh, the horror. EML.

[17:32] <FlyingDragon> I do admit that were I to re-write it, I'd change a few things.

[17:32] <Fred> EML, how about nailing down how big the LONG SHOT is. Just to keep us even happier. :)

[17:33] <Bill> EML ... are you going to be in Eastern Washungton saay President's Day weekend?

[17:33] <NickE> So, this new human world, is a name too spoilery?

[17:33] <Lensman> EML: Well anything you would care to say about Puppeteer culture would be interesting. But I can't think of any specific question to ask that wouldn't be giving away Big Secrets.

[17:33] <Harry_Redd> I have to wonder about how the Puppeteers got into space in the First place... and alos their relationship with the Outsiders.

[17:34] <FlyingDragon> Lensman, thanks for talking up my story. Glad you liked it.

[17:34] <Harry_Redd> Also WHY they went to space.

[17:34] * FlyingDragon needs to run an errand. I'll be back later.

[17:34] <NickE> Later Carol

[17:34] <EML> Long Shot is a GP4 hull. For the new stories, we didn't need to worry about its exact size.

[17:34] <FlyingDragon> Ed, nice meeting you, even if only virtualy.

[17:34] <Lensman> Oh, here's a question: Not that I want the answer, but does FOW *address* the question raised in "Ghost" about whether or not the Fleet of Worlds is actually headed towards the Lesser Cloud of Magellen?

[17:34] <Harry_Redd> I'd also find the reason(s) for herbavores developing intelligence Fascinating!

[17:34] <EML> Eastern washington?

[17:35] * FlyingDragon is now known as Flying_Away

[17:35] <EML> yup, the name of the new human world will hafta remain undisclosed for now.

[17:35] <NickE> So Long Shot is involved then

[17:35] <Harry_Redd> Ed, You'd think that a GP #4 hull would be built to Special Order.

[17:35] <NickE> Thought so. Will look fwd to seeing it

[17:36] <EML> Long Shot and the Outsiders will figure in Juggler of Worlds.

[17:36] <Bill> RadCon, Pasco WA, Feb 16-18 ... Larry is GOH, I'm AGOH.

[17:36] <NickE> And *again* with the drool! :0)

[17:36] <Lensman> "The Long Shot was 1000 ft in diameter, but 200 years later the hull had been vastly inflated by a specially genegineered animal with *very* strong cheeks..."

[17:36] <Harry_Redd> All of us are looking forward to FoW. That's a given. If they weren't, they wouldn't be here! ;-)

[17:37] <NickE> yup

[17:37] <EML> ah, *that* washington. I live outside DC. Nope, I won't be at that con.

[17:38] <Lensman> What Harry said.

[17:38] <Bill> Sorry to hear it, EML ... I used to live in Springfield VA.

[17:38] <Fred> Actually in it's first appearance in RINGWORLD, Larry describes the LONG SHOT as both 1000 feet and a mile in diamter, in short order

[17:38] <Harry_Redd> I analyze the Obvious. It's always hideing something. :-)

[17:38] <Fred> I've always hoped he mean a mile in circumference

[17:39] <Lensman> I mile in diameter seems excessive to me.

[17:39] <Bill> Yet we can accept Sir Arthur's RAMA ...

[17:39] <Lensman> Even with the retconned thing about most of the machinery being non-functional, just for show.

[17:39] <NickE> 2 pi r

[17:39] <Flying_Away> Walking out the door, but before I go, I wanted to announce that a writer friend of mine scored me and my family tickets to see a screening of the unreleased new movie "Farmer Astronaut" next Wednesday.

[17:39] <Fred> cool

[17:39] <Harry_Redd> 1000 M gives you a slightly ove a mile Circumfrance.

[17:40] <EML> In Fleet, it's a thousand feet in diameter.

[17:40] <Fred> right harry

[17:40] <frgeek> I have no problem seeing intellegent herbavores. Intelelegnce helps in being a predator but it also helps in being to outhink predators. Puppeteer predators may even have been *very* intellegent. (OBNIV) Think of what it have been like if dolfins had hands)

[17:40] <Flying_Away> Anyone hear anything about that movie yet?

[17:40] <Harry_Redd> A take on FARMER IN THE SKY Carol?

[17:40] <NickE> Fair 'nuff. That makes it canon :-)

[17:40] <Fred> "over 1000 feet in diameter" is comfortably close to "a mile in circumference"

[17:40] <Flying_Away> Dunno. Maybe. I will be certain to let all of you know.

[17:41] <Flying_Away> gotta run,. store might close at 5 PM.

[17:41] <Lensman> Bill: Yes, but that's an entire miniature world. The problem I have with the Long Shot is that it's so crammed full it has a cramped crew quarters. With 1000 ft diameter that's a lot more believable than it is with a mile diameter.

[17:41] <Bill> Bye, Carol!

[17:41] <NickE> Good

[17:41] <Flying_Away> *really away

[17:41] <Harry_Redd> Think of what it have been like if dolfins had hands) \\\ No sharks!

[17:41] <SteveS> I saw a preview the other day. Apparently, he's a farmer, and he's built a spacecraft in his barn, and the government won't let him launch it.

[17:41] <NickE> bye

[17:41] <Fred> later carol

[17:41] <Flying_Away> bye bye Bill

[17:41] <Fred> I saw the preview too. looked a lot like the bbc series ROCKETMAN

[17:42] <Harry_Redd> ROCKET SHIP GALLILEO then.

[17:42] <NickE> Rocetman sucked

[17:42] <NickE> Rocketman

[17:42] <Fred> yes

[17:42] <Harry_Redd> SALVAGE 1 ??

[17:42] <Fred> LOL

[17:42] <EML> Bill, I'm out in the Shenandoah Valley. It's nothing like Springfield.

[17:42] <Fred> I heard SUCH good things about Rocketman, and I was massively disappointed

[17:42] <NickE> yes

[17:43] <Bill> I just sent an illo for Analog about Bubba Prichert going to the moon to bring back the A15 rover for the NASM ... good yarn!

[17:43] <Lensman> Rocketman was a great comic. Unfortunately it was turned into a kid's movie, all the adult material removed. Great visuals, tho!

[17:43] <Fred> rocketman would have almost worked if it had been set in 1950

[17:43] <frgeek> I do not remeber "Rocketman" I remebr "salvage one" however

[17:43] <Fred> um

[17:43] <Fred> Lens, I think you mean THE ROCKETEER

[17:43] <Lensman> Oops ignore previous telegram... that was Rocketeer.

[17:43] <NickE> On a more positive front, trailers for series 2 of Life on Mars are running here. It;s a Camberwick Green pastiche and hilarious (the trailer, not the series)

[17:44] <Fred> we're getting an american version of LIFE ON MARS

[17:44] <Harry_Redd> Intentially humourous Nick?

[17:44] <NickE> Oh?

[17:44] <Lensman> I guess I don't know what Rocketman is.

[17:44] <NickE> Oh yes

[17:44] <frgeek> Harry drat i admit you beat me to the salvage one referance,

[17:44] <Fred> yeah, it was one of a bunch of sci fi pilots that was just announced as being picked up

[17:45] <Fred> by sci fi channel, I think

[17:45] <Fred> the guys that booted RINGWORLD

[17:45] <Bill> SALVAGE 1 was a lot of fun. (A cement mixer and unsymmetrical dimethyl monomethyl hydrazine!? Great stuff!)

[17:45] <NickE> If you grew up in 70's Britain, (which is the charm of the series), the trailer is hilarious (Camberwick Green was a stop frame puppet kids show btw)

[17:45] <Fred> you can buy a model of SALVAGE ONE

[17:46] * Bill has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)

[17:46] <Harry_Redd> I think SCI-FI didn't pick up RINGWORLD because they couldn't find a way to make it Anbti-Corporation or Anti-Bush.

[17:46] <Fred> lol

[17:46] <Harry_Redd> Or Anti Military for that matter.

[17:47] <frgeek> Im glad they did not pick up ingworld, they woudl have made a travesty of it

[17:47] * Bill has joined #knownspace

[17:47] <Fred> hey bill

[17:47] <Harry_Redd> WB afain Bill.

[17:47] <Fred> long time no see

[17:47] <Bill> Turd time's a charm, tenderfoot.

[17:47] <EML> Hey all, it was great chatting. I'm going to be on my way momentarily. Larry & I had fun with Fleet. We hope you enjoy it.

[17:47] <Fred> thanks EML!

[17:47] <Fred> we really enjoyed it!

[17:47] <NickE> Thanks for droppin by Ed

[17:48] <NickE> realll teased us good 'n proper!

[17:48] <Harry_Redd> Thanks for coming in Ed. Come back nest month, you are always welcome here.

[17:48] <NickE> Absolutely

[17:48] <Bill> Nice to sorta meet you, EML...

[17:49] <EML> It's been fun. I'll be sure to come by again.

[17:49] <NickE>

[17:49] <NickE> Cool

[17:49] * EML has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)

[17:49] <frgeek> My favorite savage one quote. "The oon mission was designed for 99.99% reliability. We can do it with 99% or 95%. Heck Ill do it with 60% reliabity!" I think that echos teh opinion of most on the list

[17:49] <SteveS> Yup, nice to meet the new folks.

[17:49] <NickE> not sure if thats the best link to the trailer tho

[17:49] <Fred> what was scary was that at one point SciFi cloaked RINGWORLD, but development continued "behind closed doors" -- the didn't want us to know what the were doing. That CAN'T be good.

[17:50] <NickE> its coming up slowly on dialup anyway

[17:51] <SteveS> I need to head out myself. I need to go buy a book for a SF book club at the library, which I'll be going to for the first time on Thursday.

[17:51] <NickE> That was pretty cool. Gonna be a good transcript

[17:51] <SteveS> We're reading Bradbury's Dandelion Wine.

[17:51] <Bill> I WANT TO WREST THE RIGHTS FOR "RENDEZVOUS WITH RAMA" AWAY FROM MORGAN FREEMAN ... not to change the subject much.

[17:51] <SteveS> Then the anime club's meeting shortly after I get my book.

[17:51] <Harry_Redd> A VERY good transcript.

[17:52] <NickE> have fun Steve. ta fro showing us your Liar as well

[17:52] <Harry_Redd> Give them to Peter jackson instead?

[17:52] <SteveS> So, I will see y'all next time.

[17:52] <NickE> ttfn

[17:52] <Harry_Redd> Adios Steve. Have a good one.

[17:52] <SteveS> You're welcome. I just wish I could have found the floor layout blueprint I put together a while back.

[17:52] <Bill> Bye, Steve

[17:52] <SteveS> Bye, y'all!

[17:52] * SteveS is now known as SteveS_away

[17:53] <Lensman> Rendezvous with Rama would make a *great* movie, some very stronly visual scenes in the book.

[17:53] <Lensman> Strongly visual.

[17:53] <NickE> the link is working, just takes a while to load the whole thing

[17:53] <Bill> No, Felix, Jackson's "Kong" sucked ... *I* want to do it so it's done *properly* !!

[17:53] <Lensman> And I think it would be easier to do it right than Ringworld, too. No major non-human characters.

[17:53] <Harry_Redd> yeah, but you'd need someone who would stick closely to the book, or it wouldn't make sense.

[17:54] <NickE> RWR was a great book. Agree that some very good visuals were described

[17:55] <Lensman> I have never been happy with any Sci-Fi Channel adaptation. "Dune" was pretty good, but was not done in-house. If whoever did that did Rw it might be passable.

[17:55] <NickE> Yeah ,but we want it done *right* :-)

[17:55] <Harry_Redd> Hmm the parody RENDEVOUIS WITH RAMIN comes immediatly to mind. ;-)

[17:55] <NickE> ?

[17:56] <Harry_Redd> RAMIN? Instant noodles?

[17:56] <Lensman> LOL-- A giant styrofoam cup floats thru space...

[17:56] <Harry_Redd> Yupper!

[17:56] <frgeek> Well they did Battlestar right - and I thought it woudl not have been possible

[17:56] <Harry_Redd> And the suprise when they find out what is insdside!

[17:56] <Bill> I spend every moment I get in a commercial airliner glued to the window thinking, "This is Jimmy Pak's POV ... only it wraps around me to the same height overhead ..." Igt's a tough concept to wrap your mind around...

[17:56] <Lensman> "My god! It's full of noodles!"

[17:56] <frgeek> Beef, chicekn pork, the Ramens do everthing in threes...

[17:57] <Harry_Redd> LOL!

[17:57] <Lensman> Is BG being done in-house?

[17:57] <Lensman> LOL indeed!

[17:58] <Bill> LOL LENS!

[17:59] <Lensman> Well their Stargate series are well done, and BG as I've said is the best written SF series on TV ever, so maybe they've improved. But I still have not seen any good made-for-TV movies from the Skiffy channel.

[17:59] <Bill> "Waiter! There's a flycycle in my soup!'

[17:59] <NickE> <splutter!> oh bog, that trailer just cracks me up!

[17:59] <NickE> <stop it!>

[18:00] <Fred> I like Stargate SG1 (the 'SG' stands for: STARGATE!) but Stargate Atlantis SGA (the 'SGA' stands for: STARGATE ATLANTIS!!) is often physically painful

[18:00] <Bill> "What's he doing there?" "THE BACKSTROKE ..."

[18:00] * SeanS sets mode: +o Harry_Redd

[18:00] * Nick_Danger has joined #knownspace

[18:00] <SeanS> well about time for me to take off. Enjoy.

[18:00] <Lensman> SG Atlantis is not as good, but I often enjoyed it.

[18:00] <Fred> "shhh, the other customers will want one too"

[18:00] * Nick_Danger is now known as emilio_lizardo

[18:01] <Lensman> LOL Fred!

[18:01] <Bill> Good night, Sean.

[18:01] <Fred> nite sean

[18:01] <emilio_lizardo> hi guys goodnight sean

[18:01] <NickE> night Sean

[18:01] * SeanS is now known as SeanLog

[18:01] <Bill> Halloo, Private Danger!

[18:01] <Fred> he walked ruthlessly into the night

[18:01] <emilio_lizardo> hello!

[18:01] <Fred> (I wonder where Ruth is?)

[18:02] <emilio_lizardo> heh. changed the handle

[18:02] <Lensman> What happened to Ruth?

[18:02] <emilio_lizardo> can change it back if you guys want

[18:02] <NickE> :-)

[18:02] <Bill> Arf! Arf!

[18:02] <SeanLog> yep, Fred, I have it as an mp3

[18:02] * emilio_lizardo says laugh while you can monkey boy!

[18:02] <Fred> yah, it's on iTunes for 99¢

[18:02] <Lensman> <Lensman screams and leaps at Lizardo>

[18:02] <Fred> on a time/money ratio, it's clearly your best entertainment value

[18:02] <emilio_lizardo> heh

[18:03] <Harry_Redd> Ruthlessly? No candy bar?

[18:03] <Fred> he walked into a great sandstone building

[18:03] <Fred> OOF

[18:03] <Bill> Emilio: We gotta take your TV set outta here ...

[18:04] <Lensman> Fred: Sound's like you'd enjoy the Thog section in Dave Lambert's fanzine _Ansible_.

[18:04] <Bill> What's that watermelon doing there ...?

[18:05] <Lensman> Oops not Dave Lambert...

[18:05] <NickE> ahem

[18:05] <NickE> langford

[18:05] <Lensman> I forget who does _Ansible_.

[18:05] <Lensman> Thanks Nick.

[18:05] <NickE> Dave Langford

[18:05] <NickE> Picks up the fanzine Hugo regularly. deserved too

[18:05] <Lensman> I blame my headache.

[18:06] <Lensman> I get it e-mailed, but when I do I head over to the website and read it there, it has illos at the site.

[18:06] <Bill> I envy your headache ... I've got a toothache and no mewds.

[18:07] <frgeek> Well thanks for teh f un but I must be off

[18:07] <NickE> Hope you missed the wind Phil (you in Florida?)

[18:07] <Bill> Bye, frg...

[18:07] <NickE> bye

[18:08] <Lensman> Ouch! Well OralJet? OralGel? Will relive the pain, but wears off quickly.

[18:08] <Bill> Don't get burned...

[18:08] <Harry_Redd> Bill, get some OIL OF CLOVES. It works wonders when rubbed on the affected tooth.

[18:09] <Bill> Clove oil helps. Scotch would work better, if I had some...

[18:09] <Harry_Redd> I keep a bottle of Brandy around for just such emergencies.


[18:10] <frgeek> Did not miss it entire. A tree at the church fell and lande don somebody's car. no dammage but fell on it and covered it like a giant spider web. had to life it with a crane. dundest thing

[18:10] <Bill> Man, oh man, I had a disaster the other night. Tried to open a bottle of homemade apple cider. A 2-gallon jug of homemade apple cider.

[18:11] <NickE> oH DEAR

[18:11] <NickE> wups

[18:12] <Harry_Redd> Explosion?

[18:12] <Bill> There was about a pint, maybe two, left. Everything in the house s sticky. I'm very fortunate I didn't lose an eye, but I got a shower ...

[18:13] <Bill> I finally found the cap, I don't know what it hi yet but it looked like it had been run over.

[18:14] <Lensman> Toothache, cider explosion... Well hopefully the yin/yang thing will give you some GOOD karma to balance things out! We can hope, anyway.

[18:14] * growler has joined #knownspace

[18:14] <Harry_Redd> I had a long run yesterday. Got home on the last Red Bar of the power gage on the chair and THAT was blinking!

[18:15] <Bill> Thank you, Mr S ... it can't all be bad news, huh? Growler, welcome aboard!

[18:15] <growler> hi

[18:15] <Harry_Redd> Hi Growler.

[18:16] <Fred> grrrooowwwwlllll

[18:16] <Harry_Redd> One good thing about that though. It will give the bats a full recharge. A deep one!

[18:16] <Bill> Are you droidmobiling these days, Frank?

[18:16] <NickE> hi growler

[18:16] <growler> I have been, at the t.v

[18:16] <Lensman> Tim the Tool Man sez: MORE POWER!!

[18:16] <frgeek> The whole house? WMF - weapons of mass fermentaion ;)

[18:16] <Lensman> LOL

[18:17] <Harry_Redd> Yeah. And thinking about writing a filk O'l Hoverchair's got me.

[18:17] <Bill> frgeek ... too true to be funny!

[18:17] <NickE> Do IT!

[18:17] <Harry_Redd> We'll see.

[18:18] <Harry_Redd> I always like that Charmicle song.

[18:18] <Harry_Redd> More like a TMF FrG. Trget of ...

[18:19] <Bill> ??? Huh?

[18:19] <Harry_Redd> Mass Fermentation.

[18:19] <Lensman> Too many acronyms for me, too.

[18:19] <frgeek> Well you all have fun. See you on the list!

[18:19] * frgeek has quit IRC

[18:20] <NickE> Later Phil

[18:20] <Bill> Bye, frg!

[18:20] <NickE> This is superb. Firefly/Futurama crossover filk -

[18:20] <Lensman> "He was an old fan, and tired."

[18:21] <Harry_Redd> Bill, a suggestion? Rotate the wing around the long axes 180 degrees. it would cut the view, eliminate the need to draw in the HD engines and make it look more like the popular concept of a Fighter craft.

[18:22] <Harry_Redd> Or you could rotate virticaly 180 degrees. ;-)

[18:22] <NickE> (It was one of the tracks I reviewed for my first foray into podcasting)

[18:22] <Bill> Well, it isn't lik I didn't learn my lesson or anything ... I have another batch bubbling but I have the lid a little looser this time.

[18:23] <Harry_Redd> You need a fermentation lock.

[18:23] <Lensman> Ah, that's better. Modern pharmeceuticals triumph over sinus headache.

[18:25] <Bill> I considered that, Felix, but I had the description to dea with that as Louis Wu walked around the Bastard while she was grounded, he was looking through the GP hull ... which indicated to me that the wraparound fusion wing went over the top of the hull.

[18:25] <Harry_Redd> Ok. BRB Bio.

[18:26] <Bill> Lens, I can't thank you enough for your help on making this piece possible. Kudos!

[18:27] <Lensman> BRB eats

[18:27] * senax has joined #knownspace

[18:27] <Harry_Redd> OK Bill.

[18:27] <Harry_Redd> Hi Senax.

[18:27] <senax> Hi everyone.

[18:27] <Bill> Hi, Senax, we're discussing whether or not BRB eats.

[18:28] <senax> BRB?

[18:28] <NickE> hi Frank

[18:28] <senax> Who or what is BRB?

[18:29] <Bill> WHAT BRB eats or who BRB is is a matter of some conjecture. We think he's Libertarian.

[18:29] <NickE> LOL

[18:29] <Harry_Redd> YOu just missed Ed Lerner by about 1/2 hour. The Transcript will be posted at the Website in chats, most likely Monday. It was a good one.

[18:29] <senax> Cool.

[18:30] <NickE> Lens said BRD eats just before you logged in (brb=be right back)

[18:30] <senax> lol

[18:30] <Bill> Awww, you never le me have any fun ...

[18:30] <NickE> </party pooper>

[18:32] <Bill> (Pig cartoon character squatting on a cantaloupe ..."Gee, this is awkward ...")

[18:33] <Lensman> BRB = Be Right Back

[18:33] <Bill> What, are you leaving too?

[18:33] <Harry_Redd> I think I'm here for the duration.

[18:35] <Bill> If this thing doesn't stop throbbing, I'm gong to get something stronger than beer and aspirin and put myself down for a while ...

[18:35] <Lensman> For heaven's sake Bill, run out and get some Oil of Cloves!

[18:36] <NickE> For anyone interested, here's the link for the Firefly Filk CD tracks from ep 24 of The Signal podcast. You even get CD artwork to put with your own burned disc (I've done it twice) The songs are all good - excellent

[18:36] <Bill> One saving grace: it's lower left, so if I have to take the vice-grips to it my whole head won't swell up, just the jaw ...

[18:37] <NickE> the links are to high res mp3 copies of each track

[18:39] <Bill> Cool, Nick, I'll try it ... too bad my sound card just shat the bed.

[18:40] <Harry_Redd> Playing the Teheme.

[18:40] <Harry_Redd> Good stuff!

[18:42] <Bill> Frank. I was going to send you the Apillo-XIII lyrics, did I ever get around to finding those for you?

[18:43] <Harry_Redd> Nope, not lately.

[18:43] <Bill> ^APOLLO^

[18:43] <Bill> Sorry, U just washed my hands and can't do a *thing* with them ...

[18:43] <Harry_Redd> Understood.

[18:44] <Bill> ^I^ ... see what I mean?

[18:44] <Harry_Redd> Pain meds time for me.

[18:44] <Bill> Lucky you, maybe?

[18:44] <Harry_Redd> I really don't like taking Medications. I hate to be tied to pills.

[18:45] <Lensman> "A Pillow 13" I think that's a different song...

[18:45] <Harry_Redd> A needle would be worse, but also the next step if the pain gets much worse.

[18:45] <Bill> I want to post this to the world before I can't ... who remembers "Star Trek: Voyager"?

[18:46] <senax> I try not to

[18:46] <Harry_Redd> The motionless picture? Me!

[18:46] <Lensman> I've discovered when it comes to

[18:46] <Fred> TMP was way way way better than Voyager

[18:46] <Lensman> to filk songs, NOT all info is contained on the Internet!

[18:47] <Harry_Redd> Oh, THAT one! It had it's moments, but I called it ST 90210.

[18:47] <senax> Thanks for the link, Nick. What I've heard so far sounds pretty good.

[18:47] <Lensman> I've done a lot of searching for "You Picked a Fine Time to Leave Me, Faye Wray". Nada.

[18:48] <Bill> Do you mind my posting my smarmy lyrics to "Voyager"s" theme?

[18:48] <Harry_Redd> :-) I sing that one... It's a cross over favorate!

[18:48] <Harry_Redd> Not at all Lens.

[18:49] <Lensman> Who was that question addressed to, Bill?

[18:49] <Bill> Anyone listening, Dave.

[18:50] <Lensman> So long as the lyrics don't contain any words that used to be called "unprintable" I'd be happy to do so.

[18:52] <Lensman> I call it "The Motionless Picture" too. Altho I'm enuff of a geek to have the Special Edition DVD. It really is an improvement, but only by 1/2 a star (out of four).

[18:52] <Harry_Redd> Those "unprintable" words are part of the language and prevelent in RAP music Lens. it shouldn't matter.

[18:52] <Fred> I didn't care for the SE DVD, but then I worked on it

[18:52] <Fred> they were too busy making it 'theirs' and not making it 'good'

[18:53] <Lensman> Were you on the CGI team, or did you do some menus, or what?

[18:53] <Fred> and if you don't want 'unprintable' lyrics, then you don't want my words to the theme from Star Trek Enterprise :)

[18:53] <Fred> CGI team.

[18:54] <senax> Lol. If you don't want 'unprintable', don't ask me my opinion of Enterprise.

[18:55] <Lensman> I second Senax' opinion :)

[18:56] <Harry_Redd> Some of that Serenity music is PAINFUL!

[18:56] <NickE> OK. big news in. Jos Whedon is no longer doing Wonder Woman!!!

[18:56] <Harry_Redd> OOPS Firefly!

[18:56] <NickE> Joss

[18:56] <Fred> really?

[18:57] <Harry_Redd> Bad choices for Femal Vocals in some cases.

[18:57] <NickE> Well, yeah, teh Lich King Reavers track is an ear bleeder :-)

[18:57] <NickE> Raelly

[18:57] <Bill> I'd be interested in the "Enterprise" lyrics. And always interested in Wonder Woman!

[18:57] <NickE> really

[18:57] <NickE> Word from Joss his own self

[18:58] <Harry_Redd> I tend to trust Joss

[18:58] <Bill> Let me see if I can paste a post ... Voyager a la smarm ...

[18:58] <Bill> (Have you heard ...? Have you heard any word...?)

[18:58] <NickE> Oh i thought most of it was pretty good Frank. i love Sheena Harden's voice (2 tracks)

[18:59] <Fred> Okay, Joss, GO MAKE SOME BUFFYVERSE STUFF

[18:59] <Lensman> Did I hear Whedon was gonna do a radical reinterpretation of our favorite Amazon, or am I thinking of something else?

[18:59] <Harry_Redd> Is a good one!

[18:59] <Fred> I don't think enough details of his take ever leaked out to know, Lens

[19:00] <Bill> She set sail on a sea of glist'ring star, a voyager like all of us seeking who we are.

[19:00] <Lensman> Buffy was my fave TV series, ever, but it went on one season too long. Not sure a sequel movie would have much to say.

[19:00] <Bill> She touched me and my life was filled with light, and I wonder where she's voyaging tonight.

[19:00] <Fred> I'd say it went 2 seasons 2 long

[19:00] <Bill> My heart's a beacon burning brightly to guide her through her peril, and to my side,

[19:00] <Fred> But Angel's still fighting the good fight

[19:00] <NickE> Yes, Sheena has a cracking voice!

[19:01] <Bill> And come one day, I'll gaze at those stars and see that my voyager is coming home to me.

[19:01] <Bill> (Have you heard *any* word ...?)

[19:01] <Fred> They were supposed to, at one point, make 4 TV movies centered around whichever Buffyverse actors they could get

[19:01] <Fred> Probably Angel, Spike, Faith, and one other

[19:02] <Harry_Redd> I'd give a pretty to see an othe FIREFLY movie!

[19:02] <NickE> "Season 8" Buffy is going to be the next Dark Horse Buffy comic

[19:02] <Fred> Joss says there won't be another Firefly movie, but who knows, the DVDs are still best sellers

[19:03] <Fred> yeah, nick, and there's supposed to be an in continuity Angel comic that picks up where the series ended, but I've never seen it

[19:03] <NickE> That's what we're trying to do at The Signal (campaigning for moer Firefly/movies comics whatever

[19:03] <Harry_Redd> ROCKS!

[19:03] <Bill> All I've ever seen is "Serenity", but it was very cool.

[19:03] <NickE> Thats from teh audio drama Old Wounds which is pretty good

[19:03] <Fred> Angel and Willow are still the only castmembers with regular gigs

[19:04] <senax> I agree Frank, I like that track.

[19:04] <Harry_Redd> Bill ask Sene if he has the series up on FTP. It's worth taking all night to D-Load each episode!

[19:04] <growler> Xander has a regular gig too now.

[19:04] <Fred> on what?

[19:05] <Harry_Redd> DIALUP.

[19:05] <NickE> If we ever get more proper Joss generated Firefly/Serenity it'll be a while, but I haven't given up (apart from the upcoming comics this year)

[19:05] <growler> Haven't watched it, it's a comedy/drama about a kitchen

[19:05] <Fred> lol

[19:05] <Harry_Redd> Now that I have Broadband, I LOVE IT!

[19:05] <Fred> that was cancelled instantly

[19:05] <Fred> only ran about 4 episodes

[19:05] <Bill> Frank, Sean is too busy to do it. I understand completely, I'd probably be to busy to watch it between now and RadCon.

[19:05] <Fred> Kitchen Confidential

[19:05] <growler> oh, well, it's showing here now - I guess they made more episodes and osld it into other markets

[19:06] <Fred> Besides, we have a Xander spare if we ever need him :)

[19:06] <growler> ?

[19:06] <Fred> His twin brother

[19:06] <growler> I reckon a good story could be told about xander on his own

[19:06] <Harry_Redd> He might have it up already.

[19:07] <Fred> to quote Louis Wu when they chopped off Nessus' head "wait a minute -- he's got a spare!"

[19:07] <growler> I suddenly have this vision of xander in a post apocaclytic world

[19:07] <NickE> :-)

[19:07] <Fred> all he needs is an eyepatch . . .

[19:07] <NickE> Yar har!

[19:08] <Bill> LOL!

[19:08] <Harry_Redd> Aye!

[19:08] <Fred> Cordy, Wes, and Anya are sorta dead, but everybody else is still out there

[19:09] <Bill> Pirate keyboard ... "R" "/" "\" <ESC>

[19:09] <Fred> The next season of ANGEL was gonna feature Fred remerging from Illyria, with a Clark Kent/Superman identity thing going on

[19:09] <Lensman> Was Anya killed off on Angel?

[19:09] <NickE> I think given the right circumstances, anything's possible. Joss hasn't finished thinking about the buffyverse or the Firefly 'Verse yet

[19:10] <Fred> Anya was killed in the Buffy finale

[19:10] <Fred> Unless, like me, you don't acknowlege the last two seasons of Buffy, in which case she's just fine :)

[19:10] <Lensman> Hmmm, how quickly we forget :(

[19:11] <NickE> Well i kinda like the last 2, but still think S5 would have been a decent end (best season IMO)

[19:11] <Lensman> Like me not acknowleging Alien^3 and 4. Just a couple of nightmares Ripley had on her way back to earth with her True Love and her adopted kid.

[19:11] <Bill> Jeez, you guys with TV ... it ain't like that out here in the sticks.

[19:11] <senax> Amen lens

[19:11] <growler> Joss has said he's done with Firefly - put his heart into it, capped it with Serenity and can't go back anymore.

[19:12] <NickE> agreed (not hat Joss had Anything to do with #4 :-)

[19:12] <senax> AVP was a bad idea that never should have been greenlighted either

[19:12] <Harry_Redd> I'd like to hear a full length (3 min+) version of this: The Ballad of Serenity (instrumental)

[19:12] <Lensman> I don't even consider AVP. Just a video game movie.

[19:12] <growler> Never much liked Angel, always seemed to be, well, a dead man walking.

[19:12] <Harry_Redd> Any news on HALO?

[19:12] <NickE> Difficult, The actual Ballard of serenity is 52 seconds

[19:13] <Fred> It looks like only 5 episodes of KITCHEN CONFIDENTIAL were made, and only 4 aired in the USA

[19:13] <Lensman> I never got into Angel either. Too grim, not enuff of the humor that was part of Buffy.

[19:13] <Harry_Redd> I know, Perhaps a REALLY HEP Group [ could Jam on it though.

[19:13] <NickE> Mals Song is an expansion of teh original

[19:13] <Fred> Yes, Lens, I don't acknowlege Alien Cubed either

[19:14] <Harry_Redd> Lo9ading now.

[19:14] <Fred> or Superman Returns. Gah.

[19:15] <NickE> (I liked it...sorry. But I did just get the original Chris Reeve one on DVD at last)

[19:15] <Harry_Redd> I'd like to hear it full length as an instrumental... It could Kick ass on the Country charts. ;-)

[19:15] <senax> Instrumentals rarely chart though...

[19:15] <Fred> btw, AVP2 comes out this year

[19:15] <Bill> Superman Returns was a waste of a good dollar at the local dollar store.

[19:16] <Lensman> What is it you find so objectionable about Superman Returns? I had a problem with their treatment of kryptonite, and their replacements for Chris Reeve and Margo Kidder were pretty much non-entities, but I didn't find anything to *hate* about it.

[19:16] <senax> ...last example I can remember is Eric Johnson's "Cliffs of Dover".

[19:16] <Fred> Bill, you liked Superman Returns a LOT more than I did

[19:16] <Lensman> And I liked it a lot better than Bill.

[19:17] <Harry_Redd> IK didn't bother.

[19:17] <Fred> Lens, I hated every minute of it. The casting, the costumes, the writing, the direction, the fx. Everything.

[19:17] <Harry_Redd> I won't waste my money on junk.

[19:17] <Fred> Like, why does youngg Clark wear glasses in the flashback?

[19:17] <Fred> young Clark never wore glasses.

[19:17] <NickE> fair point

[19:17] <Lensman> I'll admit I did find it constantly irritating they darkened the red on Supe's costume. No good reason, the original movie version was fine.

[19:18] <Harry_Redd> I DO want THE GOOD SHEPARD, FLAGS OF MY FATHERS and LETTERS FROM IWOJIMA though. Eastwood is a Kick Ass director.

[19:18] <Fred> and it can't be to make him look more like OLD clark in the framing sequence, because OLD clark isn't wearing glasses either!!

[19:18] <Lensman> Oh well that was another mistake, showing Clark learning to fly. Nope, he never did until he went to the Fortress of Solitide in the first movie.

[19:18] <senax> Agree on Eastwood Frank. Watched Sudden Impact a couple days ago. Not one of his best, but quite entertaining.

[19:19] <Bill> How about this, Lens ... Kal-El manages to have a child? This is distinctly *not* canon ... and read Larry's put on it, there are lots of problems. The special effects were pretty, yes ... but mostly nonsensical.

[19:19] <Fred> Yes, I hated the color, and the S on the belt, and the angled belt loops pointing to his crotch, and the lack of a S on the cape, and the tiny Ss all over the blue that you can't even see

[19:19] <Lensman> Letters from Iwo Jima was well done, yah.

[19:19] <Fred> And Kal-El has a child 5 years ago with a woman that's like 22 now

[19:19] <Lensman> The

[19:19] <Bill> You asked ... do I need to go into specifics?

[19:19] <Fred> let's not do the math on that

[19:19] <Fred> and I hated creepy stalker clark

[19:20] <Harry_Redd> Don't you mean Clark Bent?

[19:20] <Fred> and why does the seaplane turn around and go back for him? They don't know he's in trouble.

[19:20] <Fred> unless Lois is WATCHING THE MOVIE WITH US

[19:20] <Fred> a LOT of the movie is like that

[19:20] <Lensman> The S's on the belt and molded into the boots were bizarre-- totally unnecessary, they added nothing. In fact the ones on the boots couldn't be seen.

[19:21] <NickE> <lalalalala..not listening ;-) >

[19:21] <Fred> How come Superman forgot to rescue lois in the first place? He was flying out to save her from the yacht, and they just FORGOT about it, and had Perry's nephew save her instead.

[19:22] <Fred> And why, when you KNOW the guy is solar powered, don't you put him in the freaking HOSPITAL SOLARIUM to recover?

[19:22] <Lensman> Obviously I didn't pay as much attention to the continuity as Fred did.

[19:22] <NickE> Me either

[19:22] <Fred> see, that's the problem Lens. the movie so totally failed to engage me, that stuff like that was all I could thing about

[19:22] <NickE> honestly didn't notice the lack of an S on the cape!

[19:23] <Fred> of course it lost me 3 minutes in when they had the saturn planet with a horizontal and a vertical ring . . .

[19:23] <Lensman> See, now, *I* should never be allowed to watch any movie involving orbital mechanics. I'm getting the impression Fred should never be allowed to watch any movie at all... :)

[19:23] <Fred> Nick, Brian Singer took the S off the cape because he said you'd never be able to see what it was

[19:24] <senax> Not any movie involving one of his favorite comics anyway! :-)

[19:24] <Fred> too bad the S on the cape has been working in movies for, what, 60 years/

[19:24] <NickE> Whatever the detials, I was fairly succesfully transported back to 1978 when I went to the cinema 6 times to see the original. Sucker me ;-)

[19:24] <Fred> now, BATMAN BEGINS rocked

[19:25] <NickE> No argument there. Better film

[19:25] <Lensman> Is it only comic book movies that leave Fred foaming at the mouth? :) I thought there was some Trek movie or series, too.

[19:25] <Fred> Katie Holmes just bowed out of the sequel

[19:25] <growler> I personally think the first Spiderman is the best comic book super-hero movie - though I have rabid Spidey fan freinds who diss it.

[19:25] <Bill> Wrong, Lens ... they should simply have never tried to remake a classic, and certainly not with an inept director. That's the whole point ... WHAT WAS THE POINT?? They didn't "improve" anything and they screwed a bunch of stuff up unneccessarily.

[19:25] <senax> Batman Begins was good..who directed that? Aronofsky?

[19:25] <Fred> badly made movies leave Fred foaming at the mouth

[19:25] <Fred> :)

[19:26] <growler> Singer did a good job with X-Men 2

[19:26] <NickE> Yes. 3 on teh other hand blew goats

[19:26] <Fred> batman begins was directed by Christopher Nolan

[19:26] <growler> Concur.

[19:27] <Fred> X3 is really odd

[19:27] <Harry_Redd> No matter how good the cast is, they can not make up for bad scripts.

[19:27] <senax> Hmm...where'd I get Aronofsky? Was he offered the project or something?

[19:27] <Fred> how come it turned to night just in time for the last 3rd of the movie?

[19:27] <Lensman> I guess I'm the "odd man out" in not caring much for Batman Begins. The Batman *I* know wouln't take 20 minutes to lose the cops, and doesn't drive a military vehicle for a batmobile-- with no bat logo anywhere!-- and doesn't fight a so-called "supervillain" who's just a psychiatrist who puts a gunny sack over his head.

[19:27] <Fred> the scarecrow is right out of the comics

[19:28] <Fred> as is Ras Al Ghul

[19:28] <NickE> Always one of my fav villains

[19:28] <Fred> I missed Talia

[19:28] <Harry_Redd> Batman's motto: Screw up on my streets and you gonna bleed on them.

[19:28] <Bill> Scarecrow and Raz Al Ghul are canon.

[19:28] <Fred> And I'd have cast David Warner as Ra's :)

[19:29] <NickE> Though not sure about the Son Of The Demon continuity that they've brout back in (what , Bats has to have a son as well?!)

[19:29] <NickE> david was *perfect* in BTAS

[19:29] <Bill> Oooh, sweet idea, Fred. But it worked as is.

[19:29] <Lensman> Ras al Ghul was done quite well. The Scarecrow I know is capable of fighting physically, wears a big floppy hat and otherwise has a full scarecrow costume, not just a gunny sack mask. And he's not a nerd wimp, either.

[19:29] <Fred> I think the son's continuity varies depending on who's writing it

[19:29] <Harry_Redd> I thought he and Robin had a thing going? (Ducks)

[19:29] <Fred> Bill, yes, Liam was great.

[19:29] <senax> Ah...Aronofsky is on tap for "Batman: Year One". Or was.

[19:30] <NickE> It's in the current comics

[19:30] <Fred> harry's talking the schumuker films

[19:30] <Fred> I think we can ALL disavow those :)

[19:30] <NickE> er no argument here <shudder>

[19:30] <Lensman> "Yes, Dick and I live alone in this mansion and wear rubber suits with molded-in nipples. But we're just good friends."

[19:30] <NickE> LOL

[19:31] <NickE> cue gratuitous butt shot

[19:31] <senax> Lol. Agree. "Not that there's anything wrong with that."

[19:31] <Harry_Redd> The original comics. They were always in dressing gowns unlees "OUT" or fighting crime.

[19:31] <Bill> ROTFL

[19:31] <senax> ambiguously gay dynamic duo indeed.

[19:31] <Lensman> Oh I liked all the gratuitous butt shots... of Alicia Silverstone in *her* skintight suit. Yum!

[19:32] <Fred> reminds me of when they asked one of the DREAMWORKS animators why they drew naked male buttocks into every movie

[19:32] <Bill> Hey, Trek Vet Batgirl (seniou moment) was hot in hers, too ...

[19:32] <Fred> he said "management won't LET us draw female buttocks"

[19:32] <Fred> Yvonne Craig

[19:33] <Fred> still, the hottest Batgirl is Dina Meyer

[19:33] <Lensman> I far prefer to fantisize about Alica, but to each his own.

[19:33] <Bill> Thank you, yes ... Yvonne gave me a few sleepless nights

[19:33] <Bill> Lens, you must just be a kid.

[19:33] <NickE> OK, getting into sticky territory now..but yes Yvonne was hot

[19:33] <Harry_Redd> he said "management won't LET us draw female buttocks" Now we know how Management gets it's kicks!

[19:33] <Fred> I saw Alicia on Leno saying how cat and dog food is made from kitties and puppies, 'cause it has pictures of them right on the can

[19:34] <Fred> They actually had to cut away to a commercial, Jay was so horrified

[19:34] <Fred> that was pretty much it for her for me :)

[19:34] <Harry_Redd> She obviously has a sense of humor then.

[19:34] <Fred> no

[19:34] <Fred> she was DEADLY serious

[19:34] <Fred> she's a militant vegan or something

[19:34] <NickE> paris Hilton dumb, wow

[19:35] <Fred> of the school that says they grind up stray cats to make cat food

[19:35] <Fred> "paris hilton dumb" -- well phrased :)

[19:35] <Lensman> I try not to let the actors' offscreen lives interfere with my enjoyment of their performances. Darryl Hannah didn't exactly come across as a Mensa candidate when I saw her on a talk show, either-- which doesn't at all interfere with me enjoying her role in "Blade Runner".

[19:35] <Bill> Wasn't it Mariah Carey that came up with, "Well, I'd love to be skinny like all those Africans but I wouldn't like the flies and stuff...?"

[19:35] <Harry_Redd> Like Madonna. She'll be a great Star if her back holds out.

[19:36] <Fred> Yeah, I have a threshhold. Alicia just fell below it.

[19:36] <Bill> Ellison: "Even cockroaches have a nausea threshhold..."

[19:37] <Fred> same notation for Gwyenth Paltrow

[19:37] <Lensman> Ouch

[19:37] <Fred> they were mocking her on the SOUP last night

[19:37] <Fred> she was blathering about how Lindsay Lohan needs to get her act together

[19:37] <Fred> and the host says "yeah, get her act together enough to name her kid 'apple'"

[19:38] <Fred> :)

[19:38] <Bill> Who? Alicia badmouthing Lindsay?

[19:38] <Fred> Gwenth

[19:38] <Fred> badmouthing Lindsay

[19:38] <NickE> who

[19:40] <Bill> So the blonde walking down the street sees another blonde in the middle of a grassy park in a rowboat, pulling on the oars like crazy.

[19:41] <Lensman> Oh darn, I've missed most of the

[19:41] <Lensman> "Hawking" drama on the Science Channel. Well I spoze they'll show it again.

[19:41] <Bill> She yells at her, "You're making all of us look dumb! I'd come over there and smack you, if I knew how to swim!"

[19:42] <senax> Hee hee

[19:42] <Fred> lol

[19:43] <senax> Did you hear about the blonde couple who froze to death at the drive-in theater?

[19:43] <Bill> There are times I miss TV ... who's playing Hawking?

[19:43] <NickE> :-0

[19:43] <senax> They went to see "Closed for the Winter".

[19:44] <Fred> Did you see the very thinly disguised Stephen Hawking character on Law & Order?

[19:44] <Lensman> The ventriloquist was onstage, and the dummy started up with "The blone was so dumb..." when one of the patrons, a platinum blonde, stood up and yelled "Hey! We're tired of all these blonde jokes! We're just as smart as anyone else!" The ventriloquist replied "Madam, I'm terribly sorry..." The blonde interrupted "You keep out of this! I was talking to the little guy on your knee!"

[19:45] <Lensman> Doesn't say. Probably an unknown.

[19:46] <Lensman> Yah, I saw that L&O episode.

[19:47] <Bill> I have three books in French called "Blondes" (tome 1, 2, and 3) and they are ROTFL hilarious --- Gaby & Dzack are the artists. Hilarious, sexy ... unfortunately some of the puns require some rudimentary knowledge of French or European culture and wouldn't translate, but a lot of them are self-explanatory.

[19:47] <Lensman> But I understand *most* L&O plots are taken from real newspaper stories.

[19:47] <Fred> steven hawking, cold blooded killer. what a concept :)

[19:47] <Lensman> Yah, I was appalled at Hawking being a killer.

[19:48] <Fred> Dawn from Buffy was on L&O recently too, and got away with murder

[19:48] <Lensman> I *did* enjoy Hawking's puckish first appearance on ST Next Gen. "Wrong again, Albert." <g>

[19:48] <Bill> "Your honor, we found tire tread marks all over the victim, AND THEY MATCH ...!"

[19:49] <senax> for anyone who hasn't seen/heard him before.

[19:49] <Lensman> This "Hawking" drama is him as a young man, I think college age.

[19:49] <Bill> I'm rereading "A Brief History Of Time" as we speak ... well, not this very moment ...

[19:51] <Harry_Redd> I still LOVE ASTRIX the Gaul.

[19:51] <Lensman> Doesn't Hawking have a new book coming out? I think _Brief History_ is the only book I have by him. I thought it was quite accessible, but someone else told me that only about half of it is, the other half you need to have a pretty good grounding in cosmology to understand.

[19:51] <Bill> Asterix and Obelix! Very similar artistic style, Felix!

[19:52] <Harry_Redd> Yeah and FUNNY!

[19:52] <Lensman> I have 2-3 volumes of Asterix... how did we get on this subject?

[19:52] <Harry_Redd> Bill mentioned French Comix...

[19:53] <Lensman> But I have the entire run of "The Adventures of Tintin", including two small-press editions of his first two adventures which were never done by Little, Brown & Co.

[19:53] <Harry_Redd> The one where Astrix take on Roman Beaurocracy has to be one of my favorates.

[19:53] <Bill> Somebody brought up blonde jokes ...

[19:53] <senax> Lens, I've heard complaints about "A Brief History Of Time" being difficult, but I had no trouble the first time I read it, knowing no more cosmology than the typical hard SF fan.

[19:54] <Harry_Redd> Bill, What do you call a Redhead walking between a Bruntte and a Blond?

[19:54] <Fred> I made the mistake of keeping "Brief History" on my nightstand, and trying to read a chapter as I went to sleep

[19:54] <Bill> A translator?

[19:54] <Fred> turned out it needs more attention than that :)

[19:54] <Harry_Redd> You got it! ;-)

[19:54] <Lensman> LOL translator

[19:55] <senax> Why was the blonde staring intently at the frozen orange juice?

[19:55] <Bill> Concentrate ...concentrate

[19:55] <Harry_Redd> Brief History is one of those books that I read 3 times... A week between finish and start. It needs a LOT of digesting.

[19:55] <senax> yup

[19:55] <Lensman> I should re-read my copy, yah.

[19:56] <senax> I'll have to reread mine some time.

[19:56] <NickE> Well, nearly 1am here. gonna hit the hay, Been much fun. Ed was very obliging and interesting. Enjoyed hanging with you guys as always. Gotta catch up on the list...tomorrow!

[19:56] <Harry_Redd> There's a LOT of stuff to think about there.

[19:56] <Fred> night nick

[19:56] <Lensman> G'nite Nick

[19:56] <Fred> or, Nick Knight

[19:56] <NickE> TTFN all

[19:56] <NickE> :-)

[19:56] <senax> by enick

[19:57] <Harry_Redd> Have a good one Nick.

[19:57] <Fred> 6pm here. Gotta cook mom some dinner

[19:57] <Fred> au jus gentlemen

[19:57] <NickE> You too. Bed now

[19:57] * NickE has quit IRC

[19:57] <Bill> Try keeping up with the likes of Gerald Nordley ... I just got my fifth (of five) stories regarding "The Black Hole Project" from Analog ... lemme tell ya, this guy is tough to illustrate. Heavy duty physics!

[19:57] * Fred has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)

[19:58] <Harry_Redd> I should get a Suibscription ... I just might be able to afford it.

[19:59] <Bill> Good luck, I haven't seen contributor's copies (or checks) for a while.

[19:59] <Harry_Redd> Oh My! By Ed Lerner!

[20:00] <Harry_Redd> maybe you will after I subscribe?

[20:00] <Bill> Some of that is my fault ... I'm happier to do the work than submit bills to Stan Schmidt.

[20:00] <Harry_Redd> Get your ass in gear then!

[20:01] <Lensman> Reminds me of the story about a school girl in art class who handed her teacher a blank piece of white paper. "What's this?" the teacher asked. "It's a picture of a cat drinking from a glass bowl of milk." "Well, shouldn't there be a line inside the bowl showing where the milk is?" "Oh, the cat drank it all." "Well, then, where is the cat?" "You don't think the cat would stay around after the milk is gone, do you?"

[20:01] <Lensman> So, Bill, what you do is send your editor a piece of black paper...

[20:02] <Bill> Yeah, yeah, after I finish creating art for Radcon and a lady with a chocolate industry in Seattle ... creating is so much better than billing, I hate paperwork & need a manager.

[20:03] <Harry_Redd> I might be able to help you Bill. Actually, what you need is an E-Mail form to fill out for bill submittion.

[20:05] <Bill> Dave, Frank, you saw "Speaker Hits The Brakes " ... am I just blowing it out my ass, or could I be doing better than starving?

[20:05] <growler> I hate the idea of being required to be creative to demand

[20:06] <Bill> It's a bitch, Growler ... but so is any job.

[20:06] <growler> "find a job that you love, and you'll never work a day in your life."

[20:06] <Harry_Redd> Yoou could Bill. You are VERY good. But need a touch of direction and Administrative help.

[20:07] <Bill> Is that an offer, Felix?

[20:07] <growler> I try really hard to automate everyting in my life - and I just throw the paperwork in a box and forget it

[20:07] <Lensman> I think it's an excellent painting, Bill, but I have no idea how that translates into earning a living full-time. I do know from reading authors' forums that you can't expect to earn substantially more as a full-time author than you were as a part-time author, at least not for some years. So the lesson there is "don't quit your day job" unless you're already getting a substantial income from your art.

[20:07] <Harry_Redd> I wish I could afford to do it Bill. Unfortunatly, I am involved in a long term (18 months or better) Project.

[20:07] <Bill> Hear hear! Growler and I have the same filing system! (I like this guy ...)

[20:09] * growler has quit IRC

[20:09] <Harry_Redd> YOu might contact Laura Fraes about getting art submitted to some of the galleries. She's good at that!

[20:09] * growler has joined #knownspace

[20:09] <Bill> Was it my breath??

[20:09] <growler> Oops, wrong button

[20:09] <Harry_Redd> WB

[20:10] <Lensman> Bill, are there not artist agents as there are author agents? Surely with your publishing record on _Analog_ you'd have no trouble with your credentials.

[20:11] <Harry_Redd> That's why I told him to contact Laura. Anyway, she knows him and that helps.

[20:11] <Harry_Redd> YOu might contact Laura Fraes about getting art submitted to some of the galleries. She's good at that!

[20:11] <Bill> Much to my shame, I haven't been in touch with Laura since Kelly died ... at first it was Joy demanding time, eventually it bacame embarrassment that I hadn't for so long, now I'm trapped in not knowing what to say. Kelly's passing took my heart out and I don't think I've ever recovered.

[20:12] <Harry_Redd> Tell her that Bill. She has great empathy!

[20:13] <Lensman> What Harry said.

[20:13] <Bill> I know she does ... I still wear her rabbit ... but I've lost touch.

[20:13] <Lensman> Which means what? You don't have her address or phone #?

[20:14] <Bill> All of the above...

[20:15] <Lensman> I'll e-mail you the contact info I have from a few years back. Dunno if she's still living there.

[20:15] <Lensman> But I

[20:15] <Lensman> But I'll bet I can find out thru Ken Keller and/or Alex Eisenstein.

[20:16] * Flying_Away is now known as FlyingDragon

[20:16] <Harry_Redd> I don't know if this is still good, but try it anyway:

[20:16] <FlyingDragon> Hello. Still here I see,

[20:16] <Harry_Redd> Hi Carol. WB.

[20:16] <Lensman> Hello Carol.

[20:16] <Bill> I couldn't even be talking about this to you guys if I weren't in pain, slightly snockered and taking night-time pain pills ... sorry if I'm a bit out of sorts.

[20:17] <Lensman> I'm not gonna post any contact info here, as this chat will be linked at Ed Lerner's site. But as I say, I'll e-mail you.

[20:17] <FlyingDragon> ty

[20:17] <Lensman> What means "ty" ?

[20:17] <FlyingDragon> Bill, how about you say to Laura " Kelly's passing took my heart out and I don't think I've ever recovered."

[20:17] <FlyingDragon> Thank You

[20:18] <Lensman> Oh! TY!

[20:18] <FlyingDragon> People welcomed me back, I thought it polite to give thanks.

[20:18] <FlyingDragon> I appreciate it when people appreciate me, so I want others to feel appreciated.

[20:19] <Bill> Hi, Carol. We're commiserating over my inability to keep in touch with spouses of departed friends and other general irresponsibility.

[20:20] <FlyingDragon> Yes, I noticed. My opinion is that she will alwasy appreciate you contacting her, even after years, and to explain your feelings in the way you explained them to us.

[20:20] <Bill> FYI, you are appreciated, FD.

[20:20] <FlyingDragon> TY!!! I enjoy your company too!!!!

[20:21] <FlyingDragon> I have detractors, well, at least one who spreads her hatered to at least one other. One person poisons so much, I appreaciate other people giving me back positive feedback.

[20:24] <FlyingDragon> What does that mean "I still wear her rabbit ."?

[20:25] <Lensman> I agree, if you explain exactly as you've explained to us then I think she'll understand.

[20:26] <FlyingDragon> She probably would love to hear stories about her late husband that only YOU could tell her.

[20:26] <Lensman> I enjoyed reading your story Carol. If it were me I'd have gotten quite a thrill out of Larry actually incorporating ideas from that into Known Space!

[20:27] <Lensman> The quality of writing was significantly better than most fanfic I've read, too.

[20:27] <FlyingDragon> Thank you. Did he?

[20:27] <FlyingDragon> Thank you. Ted helped a lot.

[20:28] <Lensman> Didn't he? When was that story finished? Before _Ringworld Engineers_ or after?

[20:28] <FlyingDragon> AFter RWE

[20:29] <Bill> There was a Norwescon that happened over an Easter weekend and Kelly and Laura were there. I got suckered into buying a top hat from one of my favorite models, Joanne Kirley.

[20:29] <FlyingDragon> I did try to make it fit with canon, before it was written. I read part of ADG, and it pissed me off. I don't know if my, our, story is consistant with ADG. Canon is just stuff LARRY wrote.

[20:29] <Lensman> Oh, sorry I'm confused, I thought the reconning of Puppeteer reproduction was inspired by your story.

[20:29] <FlyingDragon> You say a LOT abuot yourself by admitting you like it. You have to be a little WEIRD to like it, don't you think?

[20:30] <FlyingDragon> There was retconning of their reproduction?

[20:30] <Bill> When I came out of the dealer's room, somebody stopped me and said, "Heym BilL! Mad Hatter! Good look for you!

[20:31] <Lensman> Yah I think you'd have to be weird to enjoy *all* parts of the story. Some of it made me squirm a bit, but I can still admire skillful writing when I see it.

[20:31] <Bill> I said, "No, not Mad Hatter, and got about ten feet farther and got "Hey, Bill ... Mad Hatter...!"

[20:31] <FlyingDragon> I was at a con with Larry one, and I asked him "If puppetters eat thier way out like digger wasps, doens't that make them not herbivores?" He looked at me for a moment, and said "No one has ever asked me that before." I decided soon there after to write a story that was consistant with canon, and where they did not eat their way out.

[20:32] <Harry_Redd> Bill, did you see my PM?

[20:32] <Lensman> Oh sure. In _Ringworld_ Nessus said their species has three sexes, including two "male" sexes. In _Ringworld Engineers_ Hindmost says the "mother" species doesn't share any genetic material during reproduction-- it's a separate species, unlike what's said in Ringworld.

[20:33] <Bill> This happened about six times until I ran into a friend from Cananadanada on the stairs, he said "Hey Bill ..." and I said "Don't tell me, Mad Hatter -- right?"

[20:33] <senax> I read the story a few years back. I was kinda torn between liking it and, I guess, being a bit grossed out. It was well written, though.

[20:33] <Harry_Redd> Hmm, Carol, Chicks have an "egg Tooth" to break their way through the shell...

[20:33] <FlyingDragon> Bill, good story.

[20:33] <Harry_Redd> Something similar perhaps? (UGLY image though)

[20:34] <FlyingDragon> Senax, ty for your comments. So, you aren't THAT weird, certainly not as weird as me? LOL

[20:34] <Bill> He looked at me and said, "Well, that fits, but it wasn't what I was going to say." OK, he had my attention.

[20:34] <Harry_Redd> :-) Bill.

[20:34] <Lensman> Carol, I remembered you saying something to the effect that Larry thought your story had-- I can't remember just how you put it-- caused him to think about Puppeteer reproduction in a different way, or something like that-- can't remember just what it was you said. So that's why I jumped to the conclusion your story had inspired the retconning.

[20:35] <FlyingDragon> Redd, certainly sharp teeth could be lost and herbavore flat teeth come in, or the host could just DIE....

[20:35] <FlyingDragon> In what book was it retconned????

[20:35] <senax> It's nice to have people who I'm not weirder than (no offense meant). One thing I appreciate about fandom.

[20:35] <FlyingDragon> Maybe I missed something.

[20:35] <Bill> Then he said, "It needs something..." and he reached into his big con bag and pulled out a huge chocolate Easter bunny.

[20:35] <Harry_Redd> Or perhaps Claws that shed off?

[20:35] <FlyingDragon> Sometimes, Larry's ideas are so familiar from talking about them HERE, that I can't figure out when the first time I ever heard something was....

[20:36] <FlyingDragon> Bill, REAL funny..... (finished? It just keeps getting better.)

[20:36] <FlyingDragon> Redd, good one.

[20:36] <Harry_Redd> Agreed Carol.

[20:37] <FlyingDragon> I suppose little PP hooves could easily be sharp enough to kick their way through. They could be almost needle sharp, then flatten and thicken in a couple days of infant hood.

[20:37] <senax> ugh.

[20:37] <FlyingDragon> I've read chicks don't need to eat for three says after being hatched. PPs maybe don't need to walk or eat for a similar period.

[20:37] <Bill> Well, I about died laughing, accepted his bunny, and went to lunch with Kelly and Laura. I related the story and as the punchline pulled a rabbit out of my hat ... a bit melted, and I had chocolate in my hair, but the point was made.

[20:38] <Harry_Redd> Hmmm. Like you NEVER try to stand an infant on it's feet because they are still forming? Yeah, that would work!

[20:39] <Harry_Redd> Watching a WIERD AL movie. FUNNY!

[20:39] <senax> UHF?

[20:39] <Harry_Redd> Yupper!

[20:39] <FlyingDragon> Senax, you don't like talking about PP repro?

[20:39] <FlyingDragon> Lensman, I see what you are saying. No, my story was writen to fit in with that description.

[20:39] <Lensman> It's specified Puppeteer hooves have claws at the tip-- re-read "The Soft Weapon" and you'll see. So perhaps the infant puppeteer doesn't need a "milk tooth" sort of thing to claw its way out. Still, as has been said, it's an ugly image. And that's what Louis thinks, too.

[20:40] <Bill> Laura excused herself for a moment while Kelly and I chatted, and she came back, grabbed my bunny and bit his ears off. I wasn't upset by this, I had hung around Ted & Jayne Sturgeon too long to be surprised by much ... but then she said "This won't do, it's melting.

[20:40] <Harry_Redd> That works!

[20:40] <FlyingDragon> PPs have two genders of male, and a "female" who reproduce among themselves. I added details.

[20:40] <senax> Carol, it's not a big deal. There are species here on Earth that do worse things...some of which probably inspired some of these ideas...

[20:41] <FlyingDragon> Bill, I'm getting it... Great story. keep going.

[20:42] <Harry_Redd> male, Female and Other? Hmmm.... Perhaps when Puppeteers started geting Gingeering, they eliminated the need for in-species childbirth.

[20:42] <Bill> So she pulled a fluffy white plush bunny from under the table that she'd seen earlier in the day in the gift shop and said, "This is what you need" ... and after Kelly and I were done gaping we all went into hysterical laughter.

[20:42] <FlyingDragon> Did you read my line I said to Larry? It is hard to catch every line when you are typing at the same time. If PPs eat their way out, then they aren't herbavores, they are vegetarian. I read up about digger wasps. WHoever had that conversation about PP reproduction with that puppetteet ASSUMED digger wasps, He wasn't told that specifically.

[20:43] <Lensman> But you've got the baby coming to term in the "mother's" stomach, then the mother regurgitating the baby when it grows big enuff. Not what's in RE... but the interesting thing is, if you read the passage carefully, it's just Louis' *interpretation* that they claw their way out like digger wasp larvae. There could be another explanation, Carol's scenario isn't impossible.

[20:43] <Lensman> LOL! Well *that* punch line was worth waiting for.

[20:43] <senax> Sorry Carol, was that question for me? The crossfire is getting pretty thick.

[20:44] <FlyingDragon> The male and the female both deposite genetic material into another. For the purposes of PP reproduction, it doesnt matter if that creature is what we think of as male or female, or the PP wouldn't say something like "The famale reproduce amound themselves."

[20:44] <FlyingDragon> Yes, Lensman, I stayed within canon.

[20:44] <senax> Yep, what they call "female" we would call "host".

[20:44] <FlyingDragon> Bill, thanks for the story. Funny that she happened to have a littel bunny for you!!!

[20:45] <FlyingDragon> yes, senan

[20:45] <Lensman> Sorry Carol, I'm having trouble keeping up too. Sorry for just repeating what you said.

[20:45] <Harry_Redd> Bill, If I saw you in a Top Hat, I'd ask you "where your White Feather and Tails were."

[20:45] <FlyingDragon> Yes. Two or more interesting conversations all at once.

[20:46] <Harry_Redd> Tha's a refrence to Stan Freeberg's UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Volume I. A Song and dance number. ;-)

[20:46] <FlyingDragon> SEnax, not sure anymore who I asked that question of! LOL

[20:46] <Bill> I still have that top hat, and on at least one occasion (when a motorcycle club pulled in and were making fun of it with, "Hey, Rocky, let's see you pull a rabbit out of your hat!" (I know, they quoted it wrong) ... but I take the hat off, reach in (bending my wrist so it looks like it's a lot deeper than it should be) and I pull out a fluffy white bunny, courtesy of Laura Freas. Ghod nose, I get a lot of mileage from that sweet gesture of hers, and it doesn

[20:46] <FlyingDragon> Redd, White feather?

[20:47] <Lensman> Harry: It's an important distinction. As Carol just said, both male and female puppeteers deposit genetic material-- sperm and egg-- inside the "mother". The female apparently uses a long ovipositor to do so, so in that sense the Puppeteers' culture veiwpoint that they have "two male sexes" is perhaps understandable, altho still biologically incorrect.

[20:47] <Harry_Redd> "Put on your TROP HAT, White Feather and tails. Make up your Faces, You Reds and you Pales." Commerating the selling of Manhatten Island. It's a very funny bit.

[20:49] <FlyingDragon> We don't know anything about PP sexual habits, except about the long detailed dances. We have no idea, cononically, who does what with who.

[20:49] <FlyingDragon> Redd, never heard of it. A fannish thing?

[20:49] <Lensman> many times, or how often. :)

[20:49] <Harry_Redd> And Puppeteers Lie a lot when it's to their advantage to do so.

[20:50] <FlyingDragon> Yes. I just wanted some more details, so I wrote it!

[20:50] <Lensman> I'm having a flashback to the end of "Blazing Saddles" and the song the fey chorus boys are singing.

[20:50] <senax> Yes Frank, any puppeteer character can be considered an unreliable narrator by definition.

[20:51] <Harry_Redd> Truly... They engage in Politics!

[20:51] <senax> Engage in it? It defines their whole culture.

[20:52] <Harry_Redd> Like the Arabs... The Truth is too precious to share.

[20:52] <FlyingDragon> I didn't realize that was an arab thing.

[20:52] <senax> Reminds me of Churchill's quote.

[20:52] <FlyingDragon> listening

[20:53] <senax> that the truth must be protected by a bodyguard of lies.

[20:53] <senax> Don't have the exact quote handy.

[20:53] <Lensman> That sounds like something a politician would say all right!

[20:53] <Harry_Redd> I belive that is Joseph Stalin.

[20:54] <senax> Was is Stalin?

[20:54] <Harry_Redd> I think so.

[20:54] <senax> thought it was Churchill..have to check

[20:55] <Harry_Redd> If you find a good Quotes site, I'd like a link to it.

[20:55] <senax> It was Churchill. "In war-time, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies".

[20:55] <Bill> Churchill is the one ho came out of the shower to find Roosevelt there and nonchalantly quipped, "The british have nothing to hide from the American President" (or something like that.)

[20:55] <Lensman> In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies.

[20:55] <Lensman> Courtesy of Google, naturally.

[20:56] <Lensman> Oh I see Senax beat my time :)

[20:56] <senax> A well-respected maxim, in wartime or not, in the field of intelligence.

[20:56] <Harry_Redd> Yeah, I just found it.

[20:56] <FlyingDragon> Truth is a lady who needs protecting?

[20:56] <Lensman> Churchill has *all* the best quotes!

[20:56] <Harry_Redd> The Truth is what it is Carol. :-]

[20:56] <FlyingDragon> Well, in wartime, certain things should be secret, like troop movements, weapons....

[20:58] <Bill> The president's alleged IQ ...

[20:58] <senax> And disinformation is itself a powerful weapon.

[20:58] <Harry_Redd> And much more. Research Projects for example.

[20:58] <FlyingDragon> Watched "The Queen" When Blair first got elected, and went in for his FIRST meeting with the Queen, the first thing she said to him, in the movie, was "You are my tenth Prime Minister. My first was Churchill." She went on to say good things about him, a wise man helping out a shy young woman.

[20:58] <senax> the Puppeteers well know.

[20:58] <Bill> (SORRY, SORRY)

[20:58] <Lensman> Bessie Braddock to Churchill "Winston, your drunk!"

[20:58] <Lensman> Churchill: "Bessie, you're ugly, and tomorrow morning I shall be sober"

[20:58] * FlyingDragon still laughing with Bill.

[20:59] <senax> I'll have to see that film...I like Helen Mirren.

[21:00] <Harry_Redd> I wonder if they used the "We are negoating the price" line?

[21:00] <Bill> Lens, I love that particular shutdown. It still works, don't it?

[21:00] <FlyingDragon> I enjoyed it. They did a good job of showing a Victorian woman in modern times. I like how they used historical footage incorporated into the movie.

[21:00] <Lensman> Yup, has to be one of the best catty remarks ever... and from a guy, too!

[21:01] <FlyingDragon> The movie was only about the Death of Diana, and how the crown dealt with it. It was not about Churchill.

[21:01] <Harry_Redd> A Shame... The PBS show about him left out a lot of his best lines.

[21:01] <senax> I think I just lost interest in the movie.

[21:02] <FlyingDragon> It was good, although narrow in focus.

[21:03] <Harry_Redd> My take (Ans more than a few Brits agree with me) Was that Nobody high up wanted a British Princess to marry a "Bloody WOG".

[21:03] <Lensman> Still, my favorite "comeback" line is from "Aliens":

[21:03] <FlyingDragon> The pople kept wanting more reaction from the crown, the crown kept saying that it was a private family matter. Blair kept telling her she was making a mistake, and she kept saying we will deal with this in our own way.

[21:03] <Lensman> Hudson: Hey Vasquez, have you ever been mistaken for a man?

[21:03] <Lensman> Vasquez: No, have you?

[21:03] <FlyingDragon> Funny

[21:03] <FlyingDragon> Redd, yes, I've heard people say they imagine the crown thought that. Too bad if they are really that predjudiced.

[21:04] <Lensman> Vasquez: No. Have you?

[21:04] <Harry_Redd> Humans... What can you do with them?

[21:04] <Bill> I liked Oscar Wilde's riposte with someone who I forget, he sent two tickets to some dude he was feuding with for opening night to his latest play wkith the note, "Bring a friend, if you have one."

[21:05] <Lensman> Can't live with 'em... can't eat em. (Unless you're a Kzin.)

[21:05] <FlyingDragon> I can't come opening night. Will come the next, if there is one.

[21:05] <Harry_Redd> That might have been SHAW Bill, BUt it's a good one.

[21:05] <FlyingDragon> Churchill again I think.

[21:05] <Bill> The target shot back, "Can't make opening night, I'll be there for the second show -- if there is one."

[21:05] <Lensman> Bill: That's one of my very favorie comeback lines, too!

[21:06] <FlyingDragon> BIll, sorry to steak your thunder.

[21:06] <senax> Mmm...steak...

[21:06] <Lensman> I was *thinking* that was also Churchill-- as I said, he had all the best lines!

[21:06] <FlyingDragon> Bill, unfortunatly, when it is a chat room, I can't tell if someone is typing, so I can wait for the responce.

[21:06] <Bill> STEAK ME! I can use the protein!

[21:06] <FlyingDragon> Lens :-)

[21:06] <Harry_Redd> I was once asked; "As an outsider, what do you think of the Human Race?" My reply was; "Not much if you are a prime example."

[21:06] <FlyingDragon> STEAL!!! LOL

[21:07] <Lensman> LOL! Owww!!

[21:07] <Harry_Redd> I Can be aserbic at times Carol. ;-]

[21:08] <senax> And gasperik at other times?

[21:08] <Lensman> *rimshot*

[21:09] <FlyingDragon> Okay guys. I'm afraid the I must leave your enchanting company. My lovely daughter requests my company for a rousing round of a Harry Potter board game.

[21:09] <Bill> A favorite line from Eric Idle's venture into Science Fiction ... "What's the useless piece of skin at the end of a man's penis called?"

[21:09] <Harry_Redd> Just what suits Senax.

[21:09] <Lensman> Enjoy, Carol!

[21:09] <FlyingDragon> Really, you guys don't know???????

[21:09] <Harry_Redd> Give her a hug for me Carol.

[21:09] <Bill> "A MAN!"

[21:09] <FlyingDragon> I will Redd.

[21:09] <Lensman> Oh, I know.

[21:09] <FlyingDragon> Bill, I was thinking of the other end!!!

[21:09] <FlyingDragon> LOL!!!

[21:10] <FlyingDragon> Caught me on that one!!!

[21:10] <Bill> Good night, Carol! Nice chatting with you!

[21:10] <FlyingDragon> Memo to self, always listen for teh punchline, esp if BILL is in the room!!!!

[21:10] <senax> Bye Carol.

[21:10] <FlyingDragon> Bye all. Thanks for being here.

[21:10] <Lensman> LOL! I admit I didn't see that coming.

[21:10] * FlyingDragon is now known as Flying_away

[21:12] * senax hears crickets chirping.

[21:12] <Lensman> "What's the difference between a catfish and a lawyer?" "One is a muck-eating, slimy bottom feeder, and the other is a fish."

[21:13] <Bill> And I should get another piece of art into the hands of RadCon ... nametags ... damn, wish I had some clove oil.

[21:13] <Lensman> So how far is it to the grocery store, Bill?

[21:13] <Harry_Redd> You have a Health Store near you? Or a Drug Store that has an Herbal section?

[21:14] <Lensman> Or is Clove Oil only from the drug store?

[21:14] <Bill> About 20 minutes, I'm on foot and it's icy.

[21:14] <Lensman> Bummer.

[21:14] <Harry_Redd> HEALTHFOOD stores usually carry it... Some Supermarkets too.

[21:15] <Harry_Redd> Well, it's something to put on your MUST HAVE list Bill.

[21:15] <Bill> Could be worse ... it's up to 28 F (the warmest it's been since Christmas!)

[21:17] <Bill> Gents, I bid you good night. Thanks for a delightful chat!

[21:17] <Harry_Redd> I wish I was closer BIll.

[21:17] <Harry_Redd> Adios BIll and Try not to think about BLUE MONKIES!

[21:18] <Lensman> Goodnite, Bill. Get yourself a lady to take care of you!

[21:18] <Bill> The feeling's mutual, Frank. But I'll see you next week -- whenever that is.

[21:18] <senax> Time for me to go too...later everyone.

[21:18] * senax has left #knownspace

[21:19] <Bill> I've had too much lady in my life, Lens ... now I'm considering a cat or dog or rat. Less troublesome.

[21:19] <Harry_Redd> Cats are good Bill.

[21:20] <Bill> Goodnight, all.

[21:21] * Bill has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)

[21:27] * growler has quit IRC

[21:28] <Harry_Redd> I must take a break. Adios all.

[21:28] * Harry_Redd is now known as Harry_AWAY

[21:28] <Harry_AWAY> -GONE+++

[21:33] * me has joined #knownspace

[21:35] * me has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)

[22:10] * Lensman has quit IRC

Session Time: Sun Feb 04 00:00:00 2007

[01:27] <SeanLog> back if anyone is still around

[01:27] * SeanLog is now known as SeanS

[01:27] <Harry_AWAY> Still on Sean.

[01:27] * Harry_AWAY is now known as Harry

[01:27] <SeanS> just walked in

[01:28] <SeanS> how did it go after i left?

[01:28] <Harry> Must be what ? About 2 Am?

[01:28] <SeanS> 1:28

[01:28] <SeanS> i am wide awake

[01:29] <Harry> I should eat something, but can't get interested in it.

[01:30] <SeanS> i ate plenty... JT makes excellent white chilli

[01:31] <SeanS> my first cig... 1:30 am

[01:32] <SeanS> i ought to just quit... been 24 hours since my last one

[01:32] <Harry> Whatever suits you Sean.

[01:32] <SeanS> i know

[01:32] <SeanS> so how did the chat go after i left?

[01:33] <Harry> Pretty good. many want it posted.