Chat Log: December 3rd, 2011

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[13:57] #knownspace> NickE: 'sup peeps
[14:07] #knownspace> NickE: (online but in other tabs atm) will check back in a bit
[14:21] #knownspace> NickE: <tumbleweed>
[14:22] #knownspace> NickE: not that we have tumbleeed in the UK....
[14:26] Larry has joined #knownspace
[14:29] #knownspace> NickE: Hi Larry
[14:30] #knownspace> NickE: it's very quiet in here today
[14:33] #knownspace> NickE: how goes it?
[14:38] #knownspace> NickE: just finished giving malaria to a bunch of folks so been keeping quite busy
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[14:40] #knownspace> NickE: Hi Hippy
[14:40] #knownspace> Hippy: Good morning, everyone
[14:40] #knownspace> Hippy: Hi, Nick
[14:40] #knownspace> NickE: or evening as the case may be :-)
[14:41] #knownspace> Hippy: Indeed. I blame this whole Greenwich thing
[14:41] #knownspace> Hippy: Now, am I late? I notice Larry is already here
[14:42] #knownspace> NickE: I suspect he's signed in but occupied with something els atm. It's *very* quiet
[14:42] #knownspace> Hippy: Ah. . .
[14:42] #knownspace> NickE: been in nearly an hour and you're the first other person to say anything :-)
[14:42] #knownspace> Hippy: Egad
[14:43] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, the talkative ones are yet to arrive. No EML, No Lensman, No Dan
[14:43] #knownspace> NickE: aye, very surprising
[14:44] #knownspace> NickE: Dan's ben fairly busy with DIY and looking after Lyn (her backs bad again)
[14:44] #knownspace> Hippy: So, how is Oswaldtwistle gearing up for Christmass?
[14:44] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, that's patly not good to hear
[14:45] #knownspace> Hippy: Wait. . .are you in Blackburn?
[14:45] #knownspace> NickE: You'd hae to ask Mark...he was in when I joined, but timed out
[14:45] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, yes. That's right. I should remember these things
[14:45] #knownspace> NickE: No big. Still waiting for it to get properly cold
[14:46] #knownspace> NickE: but it's chilly enough
[14:46] #knownspace> Hippy: Hm. And the heat of summer has yet to really start here, too
[14:47] #knownspace> Hippy: It's been pleasantly warm when it isn't raining
[14:48] #knownspace> NickE: hoping to visit Africa nxt year, so will get plenty of heat then I imagine :-)
[14:48] #knownspace> NickE: will be spending most of teh time n an air conditoned ab though (work)
[14:48] #knownspace> NickE: lab
[14:49] #knownspace> Hippy: Where in Africa?
[14:49] #knownspace> NickE: Kilifi, Kenya
[14:49] #knownspace> Larry: Hi. I'm early, so I'll read a near-finished novelet and check back.
[14:49] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes! You lucky expletivce!
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[14:49] #knownspace> NickE: and the possibly Senegal later in teh year (work also)
[14:49] #knownspace> Hippy: Hi, Larry!
[14:49] #knownspace> NickE: Hi Oliver!
[14:50] #knownspace> oneukum: Hi
[14:50] #knownspace> NickE: wb Larry
[14:51] #knownspace> NickE: near finished...sounds intriguing
[14:51] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, but is it near-finished 'written' or near-finished 'read'?
[14:51] #knownspace> NickE: point
[14:53] #knownspace> Larry: It's "The Legend of Black Ship Island", a novelet written with Steven Barnes and Jerry Pournelle. It's getting it's last read, I think.
[14:53] #knownspace> Hippy: This sounds good :)
[14:53] #knownspace> NickE: been that busy lately, nit had time to read much, but have ben slowly working through Ian M Banks The Algebraist
[14:54] #knownspace> NickE: shiny!
[14:54] #knownspace> Larry: Kilifi, Kenya has got to be interesting. I never have been to Africa. Not enough readers.
[14:54] #knownspace> NickE: sounds a little Dream Park-y?
[14:55] #knownspace> Hippy: I've been re-reading 'Lord of the Rings' and 'Standley G Weinbaum Resurrected' on the Kindle. The latter is at last a complete collection of SGW's works - only took 75 years
[14:55] #knownspace> NickE: It's supposd to be really nice, but very warm and humid. However, they have a reef, so I'm not complaining!
[14:55] #knownspace> Hippy: I was thinking 'Legacy of Heorot'
[14:55] #knownspace> Hippy: ...ish
[14:55] #knownspace> NickE: oh yes, more LoH????
[14:56] #knownspace> NickE: wild speculation here :-)
[14:56] #knownspace> Larry: Novelet is set between the two books, THE LEGACY OF HEOROT and THE DRAGONS OF HEOROT.
[14:56] #knownspace> NickE: ooh..sounds good
[14:56] #knownspace> NickE: Have to go back and give them a re-read
[14:57] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, it does
[14:57] #knownspace> NickE: any hints on when and where we might be able to read it?
[14:57] #knownspace> Larry: iT'LL be sold thru Amazon for Kindle and the like.
[14:58] #knownspace> Hippy: Yay!
[14:58] #knownspace> Hippy: I knew it was a good investment
[14:58] #knownspace> NickE: cool. I'll get my son to get it, he has a Kindle
[14:58] #knownspace> NickE: if he'll let me play with it :-)
[14:59] #knownspace> NickE: (I'm waiting for the "Fire" is it? the colour/touchscreen version coming soon)
[14:59] #knownspace> Hippy: That's the one
[15:00] #knownspace> Hippy: I'm waiting for Amazon UK to let me buy Kindle stuff
[15:00] #knownspace> Larry: We're not sophisticates, but we may have to get the "Fire".
[15:00] #knownspace> NickE: quite impressed with the basic keyboard Kindle,so teh Fire one should be well worth a look
[15:01] #knownspace> Hippy: We had a big thrashing-out of the Kindle last month :)
[15:02] #knownspace> NickE: have to save up, but birthday coming up in March, so if it's never know
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[15:02] #knownspace> dmac44: Hi guys.
[15:02] #knownspace> NickE: Yo
[15:02] #knownspace> oneukum: Hi
[15:02] #knownspace> Hippy: Hi there
[15:03] #knownspace> dmac44: Is there a topic for today?
[15:03] #knownspace> Hippy: March birthday, eh? Like all good people
[15:03] #knownspace> Hippy: Not so far
[15:03] #knownspace> NickE: not really happy with the still very regional nature of things like DVDs and ebooks (though understand it's more complicated than it might seem)
[15:03] #knownspace> NickE: indeed
[15:04] #knownspace> NickE: not so much at the moment
[15:04] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, we used to have a copyright agreement with the UK such that we could their ooks easily but US ones hard. Now it's completely the opposite!
[15:04] #knownspace> NickE: bloody silly
[15:04] #knownspace> Hippy: And I can get printed works from wherever, but not digitla ones
[15:05] #knownspace> Hippy: The authors should be complaiing about restraint of trade
[15:06] #knownspace> NickE: well, the legal/copyright system is still adapting to the practicalities of what tech is capable of
[15:06] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes. . .I suppose so
[15:06] #knownspace> NickE: ut they really ought to work out a more market freindly system..lots of customers worldwide
[15:07] #knownspace> Hippy: Why it has to pick on me whiule it does it is my question.
[15:07] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes
[15:07] #knownspace> Hippy: Countries like the Malagasy Republic should be booming now by selling works with no DRM
[15:07] #knownspace> Larry: Let the market work. Keep whining and you'll involve the government.
[15:08] #knownspace> Hippy: You have a point there
[15:09] #knownspace> NickE: blinkin UK govt is closing the loophole on no VAT (sales tax ofa kind) on CDs and DVDs shipped from teh Channel Islands (print - but *not* electronic books still free of VAT)
[15:09] #knownspace> NickE: yep, involving Govt likely to be painful
[15:10] #knownspace> NickE: ( politics!)
[15:11] #knownspace> Larry: No politics? As you will, so be it.
[15:11] #knownspace> Hippy: Which leaves us where?
[15:11] #knownspace> NickE: well, just my personal pref, tends to get messy
[15:12] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, let's see. Two months ago we were thrashing out prostitution at the Draco Tavern
[15:12] #knownspace> NickE: whoa,must have missed that one!
[15:12] #knownspace> Hippy: LibertyCon is coming up next year
[15:12] #knownspace> NickE: so what was concluded?
[15:13] #knownspace> Hippy: Larry was going to think about it
[15:13] #knownspace> Hippy: Lens had opined that hookers would certainly be at the Draco tavern, so then we thrashed out what they might be able to offer
[15:13] #knownspace> Hippy: Or what they should offer
[15:13] #knownspace> NickE: any species whose main form of intoxication is sex? Like ina very real and biochemical sense that isn't over in 2 minutes :-)
[15:14] #knownspace> Hippy: For example, a glig both talks to a prostitute about his problem while he;'s gnawing on a clone of her shapely thigh
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[15:14] #knownspace> NickE: ew
[15:14] #knownspace> Hippy: Speaking of shapely thights. . .
[15:14] #knownspace> NickE: Hi Xander
[15:14] #knownspace> AlexA: Hi
[15:15] #knownspace> Hippy: Oops. Thought that said 'Alexa'
[15:15] #knownspace> AlexA: .t
[15:15] #knownspace> Outsider: Sat, 03 Dec 2011 20:15:10 GMT
[15:15] #knownspace> NickE: heh
[15:15] #knownspace> AlexA: Ha
[15:15] #knownspace> dmac44: Maybe the definition of prostitution changes, becomes more generic?
[15:15] #knownspace> Hippy: Now, what could a prostitute offer a chrp?
[15:15] #knownspace> Larry: I don't have any useful thoughts on this topic, so y'all feel free. (Prostitution and Draco Tavern.)
[15:16] #knownspace> NickE: brb
[15:16] #knownspace> Hippy: We can try to inspire you
[15:17] #knownspace> Larry: I do see a possible connection between prostitution and psychiatry.
[15:17] #knownspace> AlexA: Larry: How's "Anvil" progressing?
[15:17] #knownspace> Hippy: You could postulate some lifeform like Michael G Coney's 'te' from. . .wherever. . .that could change it's shape and thus provide whatever type of sex a particular species needed.
[15:17] #knownspace> Larry: ANVIL moves slowly, but it moves.
[15:18] #knownspace> AlexA: Thanks
[15:18] #knownspace> oneukum: Provided the shape does it for most species
[15:18] #knownspace> oneukum: it could also need chemical clues
[15:18] #knownspace> Hippy: No, these 'te' can change their shape. I just can't remember the name of the novel they're in. 'Brontomek', I think
[15:19] #knownspace> AlexA: Well Firefly did call prostitutes "councellors" so psych connection is there
[15:19] #knownspace> Larry: chemical cues, sounds, scent, touch. The Draco Tavern is likely too weird: nothing could evolve to serve everything.
[15:19] #knownspace> Hippy: Chemical cues, possibly. I can't think of any DT species that needed them
[15:20] #knownspace> oneukum: And of course, you need internal fertilization
[15:20] #knownspace> Hippy: No, but you coudl have multiple species of prostitute
[15:20] #knownspace> Larry: Yeah, Firefly's Councellors fit my notion nicely.
[15:20] #knownspace> Hippy: Why do you need internal fertilisation?
[15:21] #knownspace> Larry: I have dealt with mating practices in the Draco Tavern. Might again.
[15:21] #knownspace> Hippy: The last thing prostitutes want is to be fertilised (except in very exotic circumstnaces)
[15:22] #knownspace> oneukum: But to have sex with another member of your species, you need a biological reason to bring sperm into that member of your species
[15:22] #knownspace> Larry: Halrloprillalar was intended to be part teacher.
[15:23] #knownspace> Hippy: What about Lesbians?
[15:23] #knownspace> NickE: well, it's (sex) the oldest funny..and interesting subject
[15:23] #knownspace> oneukum: I am afraid homosexual sex is a derived phenomenon
[15:23] #knownspace> NickE: any species that loses interest in it would be history prettyquickly :-)
[15:24] #knownspace> Hippy: I agree about that, but noneheless there are homosexual prostitutes
[15:25] #knownspace> oneukum: again provided that they have sex in our sense, not just put germ plasm into ponds at some season
[15:25] #knownspace> NickE: and homosexual behaviour is hardly unusual in mammals or birds
[15:25] #knownspace> Hippy: Suppose you rent out one of these ponds? Isn't that prositutuion?
[15:26] #knownspace> Hippy: Or, suppose your species drops sperm into alcohol to breed? Then, somebody grabs their martini and. . .
[15:26] #knownspace> NickE: as in it's been observed often enough
[15:26] #knownspace> NickE: heh
[15:27] #knownspace> AlexA: Given the wide range of "clients" at Draco T, maybe sexbots?
[15:27] #knownspace> Larry: Renting out such a pond might be pandering--or marriage counseling.
[15:27] #knownspace> Hippy: Or, you have a species where the fertilised egg needs to pass througy a digestive tract to get going. Don'[t touch the canaopes!
[15:28] #knownspace> Hippy: Offering the pond would be pandering, at least in a legal sense here (Victoria)
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[15:29] #knownspace> NickE: <Firefly pedant> it was Companions in Firefly, but the role could equally be described as Councilors </Firefly pedant>
[15:29] #knownspace> NickE: Hi MArk
[15:30] #knownspace> oneukum: I am afraid pair bonding presupposes brood care (regarding marriage counseling)
[15:30] #knownspace> Hippy: Here's a bowl of exotic peanuts that the patrons are munching on, all unknowing that they're the zygotes of some species
[15:30] #knownspace> AlexA: I heard that DS9 was planned to have a prostitute as a regular character, but Paramount chickenned out
[15:30] #knownspace> oneukum: peanuts _are_ seeds
[15:30] #knownspace> NickE: ACtually, if Trek TNG was a trully enlightened society, Councilor Troy would do more that just offer empathy }-)
[15:31] #knownspace> Hippy: Earth peanuts are seeds
[15:31] #knownspace> AlexA: NickE: Isn't "councellor" used too? Ambassidor in pilot
[15:32] #knownspace> NickE: yes, but Inara is a member of the Companion Guild
[15:33] #knownspace> NickE: the idea of her being the respectable one on Serenity was one of the interesting ideas
[15:35] #knownspace> oneukum: Given the size of the crew Troy would be overwhelmed
[15:35] #knownspace> NickE: Pterry had this wonderful line in one early Discworld book where a wizard has been turned into a tree. When asked what he looked forward too, teh tree replies along the lines of "well, in spring, there's *bees" ina disturbingly lascivious tone
[15:36] #knownspace> AlexA: Holodecks!
[15:36] #knownspace> AlexA: I hope they're self-cleaning though :/
[15:36] #knownspace> NickE: Red Dwarf had it right, teh holosuite/holodeck would be mostly used for sexual fantasies probably
[15:37] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, it would be a poor crewman who got stuck with that job on disciplinary grounds
[15:37] #knownspace> AlexA: Holideck cleanup crew would be worst job!
[15:37] #knownspace> NickE: yup
[15:37] #knownspace> oneukum: interesting to be a sysop for the holodeck systems
[15:39] #knownspace> Hippy: This talk of cleaning makes me think of the toilets at the DT
[15:40] #knownspace> AlexA: In a William Gibson short women had a "chip in the head" which enabled them to be prostitutes without remembering the experience
[15:40] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, not good. . .
[15:40] #knownspace> AlexA: Iirc they story pivoted on the chip going wrong
[15:40] #knownspace> NickE: no
[15:40] #knownspace> NickE: nasty
[15:41] #knownspace> Larry: Toilets at the DC: I never went into detail, and maybe that's a good thing.
[15:41] #knownspace> Hippy: Definitely.
[15:41] #knownspace> Hippy: Pus, there's not much story material in toilets
[15:41] #knownspace> NickE: probably, teher would need to be some fairly exotic toxic wate handling systems in place I would imagine ;-)
[15:42] #knownspace> Hippy: Nobody ever got a Hugo on toilet-based fiction
[15:42] #knownspace> NickE: toilet humour aside :-)
[15:42] #knownspace> NickE: well, that's true enough
[15:43] #knownspace> oneukum: I guess you would break the stuff down into constituent atoms. You want to get rid of alien gut bacteria.
[15:43] #knownspace> Hippy: Although, maybe it's time somebody did. Consider a group of time travellers who go back to investigate the origin of the flush toilet. . .and then let Connie Willis write it. . .
[15:44] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, one alien's poop is another alien's. . .er. . .porridge
[15:44] #knownspace> dmac44: Ones species toilet may be another species food source. Think of animals exhaling carbon dioxide and plants taking it in.
[15:44] #knownspace> Hippy: Much better put, dmac
[15:44] #knownspace> AlexA: Isn't the a toilet labelled "do not use in spacedock" in a Trek movie?
[15:45] #knownspace> NickE: Dr Who's Planet of teh Dead had a species who basically ate poop
[15:45] #knownspace> Hippy: Jack Cohenn postulated that that's what a tribble did
[15:45] #knownspace> NickE: necessary part of an interstellar trading community
[15:46] #knownspace> Hippy: So, our poop-eating prostitute has a heart of gold. . .
[15:47] #knownspace> oneukum: Begging the question whence you get so much shit
[15:47] #knownspace> AlexA: Larry: Is another "Burning..." novel in the works?
[15:47] #knownspace> NickE: well yes.
[15:48] #knownspace> AlexA: Janitor by day, prostitute/psych by night? :)
[15:49] #knownspace> oneukum: I guess a coprophagic species would need to keep livestock for making shit. Ecologically that is quite wasteful.
[15:49] #knownspace> NickE: Didn't Asimove write a short about a mechanic who had to sort out teh sewage system and as such was forever an "untouchable" in his society, well paid, cushy job, but frever tainted
[15:49] #knownspace> dmac44: an untouchable?
[15:50] #knownspace> Hippy: He did indeed
[15:50] #knownspace> Hippy: Can't think of the name of it, though
[15:50] #knownspace> NickE: me either]
[15:50] #knownspace> AlexA: I guess the largest corprapages on Earth are dung beetles?
[15:51] #knownspace> Xenovalent: Hi folks
[15:51] #knownspace> Hippy: Wouldn't a coprophagic species just browse on shit, and then as it became civilised start breeding cattle for it?
[15:51] #knownspace> NickE: except of course, they mainly use teh shit for breedng
[15:51] #knownspace> Hippy: Ecologically wasteful, but no more than breeding them for meat is
[15:51] #knownspace> NickE: and we're back to sex again
[15:51] #knownspace> Xenovalent: Hippy: I'm guessing less so, as manure is often used for fertilizer
[15:52] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, I agree
[15:52] #knownspace> AlexA: Well, ignoring trees and CO2
[15:52] #knownspace> Xenovalent: ...actually, so is bone meal and probably a couple of other "waste" products that come from butchering animals
[15:52] #knownspace> Hippy: Pigs can eat shit, so that would make them the largest coprophage
[15:52] #knownspace> oneukum: Well, the energy content of shit is low, so it's worse than normal plant matter
[15:53] #knownspace> NickE: Rabbits of course eat their own first pass faeces to give it a second processing
[15:53] #knownspace> Hippy: And there's urea that is processed from cow urine
[15:54] #knownspace> oneukum: Meat is 1:10 or so in terms of caloric input
[15:54] #knownspace> oneukum: How efficient is the digestition of the average animal?
[15:54] #knownspace> Hippy: I guess they don't poop in Kentucky
[15:55] #knownspace> NickE: he's be back
[15:55] #knownspace> dmac44: sex is the universe's way of fighting entropy.
[15:55] #knownspace> sean: for some reason, I don't want to know how you guys got on the subject
[15:55] #knownspace> AlexA: Dung is burnt as fuel, but I suspect only where wood isn't available
[15:55] #knownspace> NickE: probably
[15:56] #knownspace> sean: The burned mummies in egypt when trains started there
[15:56] #knownspace> oneukum: sean: That is an almost irrestistable reason to tell you
[15:56] #knownspace> sean: heh
[15:56] #knownspace> Hippy: Apparently it';s the most lethal form of combustion, too. More people die of it per year than by coal or wood or whatever
[15:57] #knownspace> AlexA: Hippy: Dung? Maybe produces a lot of carbon monoxide?
[15:57] #knownspace> NickE: must produce a lot of carbon monoxie i'm guessing from incomplete combustion (probably doesnt burn that hot)
[15:57] #knownspace> AlexA: Jinx!
[15:57] #knownspace> Hippy: I suspect so, AlexA
[15:58] #knownspace> sean: Just got home, was over at the gf's putting up loads of christmas decorations. what we call 'Griswalding'
[15:58] #knownspace> NickE: well, taling of that Bandersnatchi probably aren't that fussy about what organic matter they ingest, so maybe they are the largest (potential ) copraphages
[15:58] #knownspace> Hippy: Actually, with this new Internet thing I could probably look up why it is, but I would rather make a cup of tea
[15:59] #knownspace> AlexA: .g burning dung
[15:59] #knownspace> Outsider: AlexA:
[15:59] #knownspace> Hippy: Ah, yes
[15:59] #knownspace> Hippy: Anyone reading this log would probably nominate themselves, too :)
[15:59] #knownspace> NickE: i could see thrint using them to clean up after and feed carnivourous slave species
[16:00] #knownspace> Hippy: Actually, I think that's exactrly what they did
[16:00] #knownspace> Hippy: Certainly they fed the thrintun
[16:01] #knownspace> Hippy: Anyway, tea. We camelliaphages need it
[16:01] #knownspace> AlexA: According to that link, dung has surprizingly high energy content
[16:01] #knownspace> NickE: the fact that they were dsigned to feed on mutated food yeast that was no longer any good for slaves means they had very tolereant digestions
[16:02] #knownspace> NickE: I'd bet thrint only ate nicely "grass" fed bandersnatchi though
[16:03] #knownspace> AlexA: Outsider: Help
[16:03] #knownspace> Outsider: AlexA: Hi, I'm a bot. Say ".commands" to me in private for a list of my commands, or see for more general details. My owner is UncleNasty.
[16:03] #knownspace> AlexA: .commands
[16:03] #knownspace> NickE: wups
[16:04] #knownspace> Larry: We have notes for another "Burning--" novel, but the first two didn't sell well.
[16:04] #knownspace> AlexA: Larry: Shame
[16:04] #knownspace> Xenovalent: speaking of things that various species, apparently there's a yeti crab that "farms" bacteria on its arms, then feeds on them.
[16:04] #knownspace> NickE: oh, I enjoyed them.
[16:05] #knownspace> NickE: Nature is very good at comig up with weird sh...stuff
[16:05] #knownspace> NickE: (LoH inspiration frex)
[16:05] #knownspace> NickE: *well, Grendels)
[16:07] #knownspace> Xenovalent: yeah...I can't see a way to get a story out of it, though - with a food source that convenient, why would a species need to involve intelligence?
[16:07] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes
[16:07] #knownspace> oneukum: To avoid predation?
[16:07] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, it might be in a hostile environment
[16:08] #knownspace> Hippy: Climatically hostile, say
[16:08] #knownspace> Hippy: Now, these 'Burning. . .' books. Will they be on the Kindle? That might improve sales
[16:08] #knownspace> oneukum: Or as a form of competition. Something like a world dominated by termite hills.
[16:10] #knownspace> sean: there have been a couple of hints that a kindle is in my immediate future.
[16:10] #knownspace> Larry: Good suggestion. I'll check with Pournelle and Eleanor re putting the "Heorot" books on Kindle. We're doing that with a lot of stuff.
[16:10] #knownspace> AlexA: Same question as why intelligent herbivores?
[16:11] #knownspace> Hippy: Glad to hear that, Larry
[16:11] #knownspace> Larry: As pointed out, herbivores have enemies to outthink.
[16:11] #knownspace> AlexA: Larry: Is Barnes still doing a new Heorot story?
[16:11] #knownspace> NickE: "how much intelligence does it take to sneak up on a leaf?"
[16:12] #knownspace> AlexA: Replace "a leaf" with dung :)
[16:12] #knownspace> Larry: as noted above: a Heorot novelet is near finished.
[16:12] #knownspace> Larry: I'm editing it now.
[16:13] #knownspace> sean: cool. I really enjoyed the Heorot books.
[16:13] #knownspace> Hippy: Me, too
[16:13] #knownspace> AlexA: Larry: Sorry missed that - good to hear
[16:13] #knownspace> NickE: aye
[16:13] #knownspace> oneukum: yes
[16:13] Lensman has joined #knownspace
[16:13] #knownspace> Hippy: G'day, Lens
[16:13] #knownspace> sean: hi David.
[16:13] #knownspace> NickE: hi Lens
[16:14] #knownspace> Lensman: Hello, Larry!
[16:14] #knownspace> Lensman: Hello, all!
[16:14] #knownspace> oneukum: Hi
[16:14] #knownspace> Larry: Hello, Lensman!
[16:14] #knownspace> Hippy: You're just in time for the 'poop talk'
[16:14] #knownspace> Lensman: Tanj I can't believe I was sitting here reading e-mail and only just now remembered it's chat day.
[16:14] #knownspace> dmac44: Hi Lens
[16:15] #knownspace> sean: substitute christmas decorations for email and i did the same thing
[16:15] #knownspace> AlexA: Does global financial crisis offer ideas for SF stories?
[16:16] #knownspace> AlexA: ObLN: Collapse caused by puppetter exodus
[16:16] #knownspace> oneukum: Astronauts stranded in space because the space agency cannot afford the launch to retrieve them
[16:17] #knownspace> Lensman: George O. Smith's "Pandora's Millions" is about an economic collapse caused by a company mass marketing a matter duplicator. It duplicates money (currency) just fine...
[16:18] #knownspace> Hippy: I recall a story called 'Semolians' where the economy collapses because people start handing out vouchers for their labour
[16:18] #knownspace> Hippy: Pity I've never been able to track it down
[16:18] #knownspace> dmac44: Lens: Sorta like the first inkjet printers.
[16:18] #knownspace> Lensman: There are at least two stock market crashes mentioned in Known Space, but neither of them are explore in detail. One provided the impetus for formerly rich Rich Mann to have to rent a starship for exploration.
[16:18] #knownspace> oneukum: Clarke's Earthlight is very loosely viewed about an economic problem
[16:19] #knownspace> Hippy: Louis Wu got rich on stock markjet changes
[16:19] #knownspace> dmac44: Wars are often caused by economics.
[16:20] #knownspace> sean: he got his house from a stock market crash anyway.
[16:20] #knownspace> NickE: and his lawn
[16:20] #knownspace> AlexA: Runnaway inflation when B-Ark crew adopt leaves as currency
[16:20] #knownspace> NickE: heheh
[16:20] #knownspace> AlexA: Burning down trees as solution!
[16:20] #knownspace> NickE: ite doesnt grow on trees you know...oh, wait
[16:20] #knownspace> Lensman: Wars are group struggles for resources, so in one sense they can always be considered caused by economics. When the struggle is over land, the economic angle is less obvious.
[16:20] #knownspace> NickE: funny as f..
[16:21] #knownspace> dmac44: struggle for resources of any type.
[16:21] #knownspace> AlexA: Actual "paper" money is made from cotton, not trees
[16:22] #knownspace> sean: alexa, that is in one of the hitchiker books, right?
[16:22] #knownspace> Lensman: High rag content paper.
[16:22] #knownspace> Hippy: Ours is made from plastic
[16:22] #knownspace> Lensman: For which you should be grateful if you've ever washed bills by accident!
[16:23] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, I am, I am
[16:23] #knownspace> Hippy: God Bless the Reserve Bank of Australia', I say every morning
[16:23] #knownspace> Lensman: LOL
[16:24] #knownspace> Hippy: I have to get off the tram at Exhibiton St on Monday and salute it :)
[16:25] #knownspace> AlexA: sean: Yes
[16:25] #knownspace> Lensman: Let's face it: Finances don't make for very interesting stories.
[16:25] #knownspace> AlexA: I suspect "Restaurant"
[16:25] #knownspace> Hippy: It should be in 'Life, the Universe and Everything'
[16:26] #knownspace> AlexA: It was at end of TV series
[16:26] #knownspace> Lensman: I don't remember if it's in the second or the third, but I'd guess the latter.
[16:26] #knownspace> sean: it is in restaurant.
[16:26] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, I'll be jiggered
[16:26] #knownspace> sean: transporter on the fritz in the disaster area stunt ship
[16:27] #knownspace> Lensman: So how did you get on the subject of scat?
[16:27] #knownspace> AlexA: Sean: right
[16:27] #knownspace> sean: you should of seen the previous topic... be happy
[16:27] #knownspace> Hippy: I raised the uestion of toilets at the Draco Tavern
[16:27] #knownspace> AlexA: I mentioned holodeck cleanup crew
[16:27] #knownspace> Lensman: Ah. That would indeed be a problem.
[16:27] #knownspace> AlexA: Moved in to DC toilets
[16:27] #knownspace> AlexA: On to! Lol
[16:28] #knownspace> Lensman: "DC" ?
[16:28] #knownspace> Hippy: DT
[16:28] #knownspace> AlexA: DT!
[16:28] #knownspace> AlexA: Damn my fingers
[16:28] #knownspace> Lensman: -k-
[16:28] #knownspace> Hippy: 'In to' is considerably worse than 'on to' when you're discussing lavatories
[16:29] #knownspace> AlexA: Room was already discussing DT prostitutes when I arrived :)
[16:30] #knownspace> Lensman: I seem to recall DT prostitutes coming up before. Sorry, I don't buy it. Tab "A" is unlikely to fit into slot "B" if it's the wrong species.
[16:31] #knownspace> AlexA: That's basically what Larry said Lensman
[16:31] #knownspace> AlexA: Hence holodecks/lovebots
[16:31] #knownspace> Hippy: And the assumption there is that there will only be one species of prostitute
[16:31] #knownspace> dmac44: Maybe they're like Puppeteers and need another species to carry their young?
[16:32] #knownspace> Lensman: Speaking of which, there was a Campbell era story that was about a man who was going to live on the moon, and his first task-- which turned out to be problematic-- was to assemble a robot that was supposed to construct his survival shelter.
[16:32] #knownspace> xihr: what's up
[16:32] #knownspace> sean: just a little chat
[16:32] #knownspace> AlexA: Reminds me of the "genetics" of tools
[16:33] #knownspace> Lensman: As I recall, the name of the story was "Insert tab 'A' into slot 'B'", but when I tried to Google that all I got was references to erotica and writing such.
[16:33] #knownspace> Hippy: That's the Internet for you
[16:33] #knownspace> xihr: I thought the chats were first Monday of every month, or something? is it first Saturday now, or did I have it wrong all along?
[16:33] #knownspace> NickE: always was Sat
[16:33] #knownspace> sean: tis always been first saturday
[16:33] #knownspace> oneukum: Well, the idea of a coevolved parasite based on sex has already been done
[16:33] #knownspace> Lensman: dmac: Prostitution isn't about reproduction, it's about entertainment. If you want to reproduce, then you need a surrogate mother, not a prostitute.
[16:33] #knownspace> AlexA: Most tools are made by other tools... Going back to first rock/bone/wood tool use
[16:34] #knownspace> oneukum: Lensman: It is however based on reproductive behavior
[16:34] #knownspace> AlexA: xihr: Always 1st Saturday
[16:34] #knownspace> dmac44: for renumeration.
[16:35] #knownspace> xihr: AlexA: ah, ok, thanks
[16:35] #knownspace> AlexA: I often forget though!
[16:35] #knownspace> NickE: (sorry, distracted by Asimo appearing on QI)
[16:35] #knownspace> Hippy: It isn't always based on reproductive behaviour
[16:35] #knownspace> AlexA: Ah - saw that last night NickE
[16:35] #knownspace> NickE: cool werent it
[16:35] #knownspace> Hippy: Prostitutes do lots of things that aren't based on reproductive behavour (for a price)
[16:36] #knownspace> Lensman: ONeu: Yeah, but the motives are entirely different. Prostitution doesn't involve a long-term committment. Generally speaking, reproduction for a sapient species will.
[16:36] #knownspace> xihr: AlexA: it's been a while; I totally forgot :-)
[16:36] #knownspace> dmac44: Lens: Fair enough.
[16:36] #knownspace> NickE: hmm. Banks' Dwellers *hunt* their children :-)
[16:37] #knownspace> AlexA: What are Honda's plans for uses for Asimo tech?
[16:37] #knownspace> AlexA: Asimo's cool but no obvious applications
[16:38] #knownspace> NickE: elegant though
[16:38] #knownspace> Hippy: So, that isn't a typo for 'Asimov'?
[16:38] #knownspace> oneukum: Lensman: that is a very strong assumption
[16:38] #knownspace> Lensman: They seem to like to use Asimo for advertising. Haven't seen any practical use yet. I think there may be a similar app to replace wheelchairs, or even full exoskeletons for quadraplegics.
[16:38] #knownspace> AlexA: Avatar? Robonaut?
[16:38] #knownspace> Hippy: Lovebot?
[16:38] #knownspace> Lensman: Oneu: Well then, discuss further or give a counter-example.
[16:38] #knownspace> AlexA: Hippy: Lol
[16:39] #knownspace> NickE: avatar with VR seems a possible uture use
[16:39] #knownspace> oneukum: Look for example at plants
[16:39] #knownspace> xihr: hopefully with a better plot
[16:39] #knownspace> oneukum: they have a generational sequence
[16:39] #knownspace> Lensman: Asimo is a child-sized humaniform robot which can walk around.
[16:39] #knownspace> oneukum: as have aphids
[16:39] #knownspace> AlexA: .wik asimo
[16:39] #knownspace> Outsider: "ASIMO (アシモ, ashimo|?|) is a humanoid robot created by Honda." -
[16:40] #knownspace> AlexA: :)
[16:40] #knownspace> oneukum: Suppose you have two forms
[16:40] #knownspace> Lensman: And?
[16:40] #knownspace> AlexA: .ety asimo
[16:40] #knownspace> Outsider: Can't find the etymology for "asimo". Try
[16:40] #knownspace> Hippy: Ah, okay. Excellent
[16:41] #knownspace> sean: !chuck
[16:41] #knownspace> HAL9000: Chuck Norris once wrote 1 horoscope for everyone. It predicted pain. [score=6.057]
[16:41] #knownspace> sean: heh
[16:41] #knownspace> AlexA: HAL9000: help
[16:41] #knownspace> Hippy: That's a good one
[16:42] #knownspace> sean: hmmm... tis firestone's bot
[16:42] #knownspace> sean: !help
[16:42] #knownspace> HAL9000: help: (13 Programs): bbs, botsnack, chucknorris, deepthoughts, dice, excuse, fortune, insult, roshambo, theyfightcrime, tube, twitter, weather (help <topic> for more info)
[16:42] #knownspace> AlexA: We have two chatbots?
[16:42] #knownspace> Hippy: We're all bots, except you
[16:42] #knownspace> oneukum: The point is that the basic assumption of male/female - pair bonding - internal fertilisation is very species centric
[16:42] #knownspace> sean: firestone has been playing with hal9000. it is basically a bot to link his bbs into the chatroom
[16:42] #knownspace> Hippy: Kill the humanoid!
[16:43] #knownspace> Hippy: Oliver, I agree
[16:43] #knownspace> AlexA: That's what you think!
[16:43] #knownspace> Hippy: So where does the Chuck Norris stuff come from? Uncyclopedia?
[16:44] #knownspace> Larry: I'm going back to work. Fare you well.
[16:44] #knownspace> AlexA: !help weather
[16:44] #knownspace> HAL9000: weather information lookup. Looks up weather information for the last location you specified. See topics 'nws' and 'wu' for more information
[16:44] #knownspace> sean: i think mark said it has its own database
[16:44] #knownspace> NickE: bye Larry
[16:44] #knownspace> oneukum: Good bye, Larry
[16:44] #knownspace> AlexA: Bye Larry
[16:44] #knownspace> Hippy: 'Bye, Larry!
[16:44] #knownspace> AlexA: !weather edgb
[16:44] #knownspace> Lensman: We can certainly postulate a species where the two sexes are markedly different in size. That's true of the Grogs to a limited extent; more extreme examples can be found in nature. So you might postulate a short-term pregnancy for the unintelligent gender. Don't see how that leads to a story or an interesting scenario, though. It's being the mother of an intelligent child that's the interesting story. Giving birth to a litter of dumb an
[16:44] #knownspace> HAL9000: Weather info for Ballersbach, Germany (updated on 10:32 PM CET on December 03, 2011) -- Temperature: 43.7F / 6.5C -- Windchill: 44F / 7C -- Humidity: 92% -- Dew Point: 42F / 5C -- Wind: SSW at 0.0 mph / 0.0 km/h -- Pressure: 29.68 in / 1005.0 hPa (Steady) -- Conditions: Mostly Cloudy -- Visibility: 6.2 miles / 10.0 kilometers -- UV: 0.0 out of 16 -- Clouds: Mostly Cloudy (BKN) : 1100 ft /
[16:44] #knownspace> HAL9000: 335 m Mostly Cloudy (BKN) : 2700 ft / 822 m Mostly Cloudy (BKN) : 5000 ft / 1524 m -- Yesterday's Maximum: 52.2F / 11.2C -- Yesterday's Minimum: 31.3F / -0.4C -- Sunrise: 8:09 AM CET -- Sunset: 4:24 PM CET -- Moon Rise: 12:56 PM CET -- Moon Set: 12:43 AM CET -- Moon Phase: Waxing Gibbous
[16:44] #knownspace> Hippy: See you next year!
[16:44] #knownspace> AlexA: Oops
[16:45] #knownspace> AlexA: Wrong ICAO code
[16:45] #knownspace> sean: yeah, mark needs to cut down the info display for that one.
[16:45] #knownspace> sean: .weather 40601
[16:45] #knownspace> Outsider: Clear ☼, 62.6℉ (17℃), 30.29in (1022mb), Gentle breeze 7kt (↑) - KLOU 20:53Z
[16:46] #knownspace> AlexA: .g ICAO boscombe down
[16:46] #knownspace> Outsider: AlexA:
[16:46] #knownspace> AlexA: .weather egdm
[16:46] #knownspace> Outsider: Cloudy, 8℃, 1005mb, Light breeze 6kt (↑) - EGDM 20:50Z
[16:46] #knownspace> AlexA: Better! Lol
[16:47] #knownspace> Hippy: I'm not sure how 8C can be better :)
[16:48] #knownspace> AlexA: Better than Germany!
[16:48] #knownspace> AlexA: Just :)
[16:48] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, good point.
[16:49] #knownspace> Hippy: .weather yblt
[16:49] #knownspace> Outsider: No ICAO code found, sorry
[16:49] #knownspace> Hippy: Damn
[16:49] #knownspace> oneukum: .weather muc
[16:49] #knownspace> Outsider: Clear ☼, 8℃, 1023mb, Light breeze 6kt (↑) - LATI 21:30Z
[16:49] #knownspace> Hippy: .weather Hippy
[16:49] #knownspace> Outsider: Cover Unknown, 33.8℉ (1℃), 29.93in (1010mb), Calm 0kt (↑) - KGNT 20:53Z
[16:50] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, good
[16:50] #knownspace> Hippy: I'm 33.8F
[16:50] #knownspace> Hippy: And my cover hasn't been blown
[16:50] #knownspace> AlexA: Ha!
[16:50] #knownspace> sean: heh
[16:50] #knownspace> oneukum: Well, then we need to bomb the whole area from orbit ;-)
[16:51] #knownspace> Hippy: LOL
[16:51] #knownspace> sean: watched rise of the planet of the apes the other day. thought it was excellent.
[16:52] #knownspace> sean: what did you guys think?
[16:52] #knownspace> Hippy: Alas, I don't think it's crossed the equator yet
[16:52] #knownspace> AlexA: Havent seen Apes. Last film I saw was TinTin
[16:53] #knownspace> AlexA: TinTin was fun
[16:53] #knownspace> sean: and i have not seen TinTin
[16:53] #knownspace> Lensman: "I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
[16:53] #knownspace> Lensman: Didn't see it, Sean.
[16:53] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, yes, Lens.
[16:54] #knownspace> Hippy: Or just a courtesy flush would do
[16:54] #knownspace> AlexA: Makes me wonder if future Indy movies should be animated as Ford is getting old.
[16:54] #knownspace> Lensman: Haven't seen "Tintin" yet, but it's a must see! I have most or all of the, well, graphic novels or whatever the proper term is.
[16:55] #knownspace> Hippy: Let us hope there will be no future Indy movies. 'Crystal Skull' was appalling
[16:55] #knownspace> Lensman: They need a good story before they do another "Indy" film. Actually the last one wasn't too bad until the very end, then it completely fell apart for me.
[16:56] #knownspace> NickE: it was (Crystal Skull) dreadful
[16:56] #knownspace> AlexA: Moffat's TinTin script was good
[16:56] #knownspace> sean: crystal skull and some good indy scenes in it but overall it sucked.
[16:56] #knownspace> sean: and=had
[16:56] #knownspace> AlexA: Didn't Lucas reject Indy 4 script by Barrabont?
[16:57] #knownspace> NickE: agree, some nice bits but so fundamentally daft and out there that it blew
[16:57] #knownspace> Lensman: But I agree, Ford is too long in the tooth for a proper Indy film.
[16:58] #knownspace> Hippy: What? Darabont would've written a great script!
[16:58] #knownspace> Lensman: They've tried again and again to recapture the glory of "Raiders", and completely failed every time. They should give it up, already!
[16:58] #knownspace> AlexA: .g darabont Indiana Jones
[16:58] #knownspace> Outsider: AlexA:
[16:58] #knownspace> NickE: no argument from me
[16:58] #knownspace> Hippy: Nor me
[16:58] #knownspace> sean: they failed with temple and crystal skull but i enjoyed crusade.
[16:59] #knownspace> NickE: agree
[16:59] #knownspace> dmac44: imho Indy films 1,3,4 and 2 (in that order of quality)
[16:59] #knownspace> AlexA: I liked Crusade
[16:59] #knownspace> xihr: sean: yeah, I thought Crusade was fun -- though I know some people who hated it
[16:59] #knownspace> xihr: 2 and 4 were bad (4 was TERRIBLE)
[16:59] #knownspace> xihr: it was unnecessary to start with and unwatchable
[16:59] #knownspace> Lensman: Crusade was the closest to recapturing the glory, but apparently by deliberately re-creating some of the set pieces. A tank instead of a truck, but otherwise basically the same sequence, for instance.
[16:59] #knownspace> xihr: (it even invented a replacement phrase for "jumping the shark")
[16:59] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, I would put 1, 3, 2, 4 as my order of preference
[17:00] #knownspace> xihr: Hippy: not a hard list to order, though :-)
[17:00] #knownspace> Hippy: It's a pity that some video ogames now have better scripts than movies do
[17:00] #knownspace> Hippy: No, xilir, you're right there
[17:00] #knownspace> NickE: it's true
[17:00] #knownspace> Akiraa:
[17:00] #knownspace> dmac44: isn't the video game industry as large as the movie industry?
[17:01] #knownspace> Akiraa: our loft in minecraft ^^
[17:01] #knownspace> sean: tis just like the back to the future movies. I have a copy of 1 and 3 but 2 is nothing more but a transport mechanism to get you to 3
[17:01] #knownspace> xihr: dmac44: pretty close if not exceeded
[17:01] #knownspace> dmac44: they can hire beter script writers
[17:01] #knownspace> dmac44: better
[17:01] #knownspace> AlexA: Well COD games gross more than most movies
[17:01] #knownspace> xihr: y, major titles easily break $500M in revenue these days
[17:02] #knownspace> Lensman: Yeah, Sean, I can't believe that some of my friends prefer "Back to the Future 2" to 3. I enjoy 3, but then I'm "into" the Victorian era and love Mary Steenburgen! Especially in a period dress!
[17:02] #knownspace> xihr: huge titles break $500M in the first few weeks
[17:02] #knownspace> Lensman: "Back... Future 2" is so dark and depressing, not to mention repititious. Can't understand why anyone would like it.
[17:02] #knownspace> Hippy: Imagine if movies cost $70 a ticket. Then you would see the movie industry much bigger than tyhe game industry
[17:02] #knownspace> xihr: sean, Lensman: been forever since I've seen the Back to the Future sequels -- I watched them at some point but I wasn't paying full attention so didn't get engaged
[17:03] #knownspace> Lensman: What means "COD games" ?
[17:03] #knownspace> xihr: Hippy: but imagine if you had something else to DO in movies other than just watch? :-)
[17:03] #knownspace> sean: call of duty
[17:03] #knownspace> xihr: Lensman: Call of Duty
[17:03] #knownspace> AlexA: Saw interview with Firefly composer where he said games can afford full orchestra which TV can't
[17:03] #knownspace> sean: first person shooter
[17:03] #knownspace> NickE: Greg Edmonson. Nice guy
[17:03] #knownspace> xihr: popular series of games
[17:04] #knownspace> xihr: latest round (Modern Warfare 3) reached $775M worldwide in sales in the first FIVE DAYS
[17:04] #knownspace> Lensman: If movies cost $70 a ticket, then they'd sell very few tickets and virtually no movies would ever get made.
[17:04] #knownspace> xihr: [that includes a buttload of preorders]
[17:04] #knownspace> AlexA: But per hour of entertainment games are still cheaper than movies
[17:04] #knownspace> Hippy: At $70 a game, though
[17:04] #knownspace> sean: yeah, evan (gf's 13 year old son) had to have it IMMEDIATELY.
[17:04] #knownspace> xihr: not sure where you get $70 from ... AU?
[17:04] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes
[17:05] #knownspace> xihr: ah, got it
[17:05] #knownspace> Hippy: Good point, though
[17:05] #knownspace> xihr: you also get all kinds of fun censorship rules
[17:05] #knownspace> AlexA: ~£35 in uk
[17:05] #knownspace> xihr: US$50-60
[17:05] #knownspace> xihr: but that's for an absolutely top of the line title, many games are simpler and cheaper
[17:05] #knownspace> oneukum: It is getting late here. Good bye, people.
[17:05] #knownspace> xihr: night
[17:05] #knownspace> sean: night oliver
[17:05] #knownspace> Hippy: 'Bye, Oliver
[17:05] #knownspace> Hippy: See you next year
[17:05] #knownspace> xihr: sean: I'm a Battlefield guy, myself :-)
[17:06] #knownspace> sean: i dont play em
[17:06] #knownspace> xihr: but the single player for COD games is fun (if outrageous)
[17:06] #knownspace> Hippy: So am I, but I dont' have the hardware to play it :(
[17:06] #knownspace> Lensman: I have over 300 DVDs in my library. Can't imagine spending $70 for any one of 'em, altho I suppose for the LOTR trilogy I might have spent that much altogether.
[17:06] #knownspace> Lensman: Or a bit more.
[17:07] #knownspace> Hippy: I spend around $28US these days for a DVD
[17:07] #knownspace> Hippy: On average
[17:07] #knownspace> AlexA: I only have Wii
[17:07] #knownspace> AlexA: COD is surprisingly good on Wii
[17:08] #knownspace> Lensman: Not much difference between $AUS and $US at the moment.
[17:08] #knownspace> AlexA: But I'm not that good at MP - maybe too old! Lol
[17:09] #knownspace> Hippy: No. I think we're back on top at the moment
[17:09] #knownspace> Hippy: Now, we need a bot for exchange rates
[17:09] #knownspace> sean: write one, outsider is open source. ;)
[17:10] #knownspace> Lensman: $70 AUS = $72 US
[17:10] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, yes, I'll just get down and do that :)
[17:10] #knownspace> sean: hehe
[17:10] #knownspace> Hippy: Can't even do HTML properly
[17:10] #knownspace> xihr: Hippy: that usually requires APIs you pay for or scraping sites that change frequently
[17:10] #knownspace> xihr: new, tier one games don't cost US$72 -- AU makes the prices artificially high
[17:10] #knownspace> sean: exchange rates is not a bad idea for outsider. since we are very multinational. i will check into it.
[17:11] #knownspace> AlexA: .g £35 in dollars
[17:11] #knownspace> Outsider: AlexA:
[17:11] #knownspace> Hippy: Thanks, Sean
[17:11] #knownspace> AlexA: :(
[17:11] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, at least you can all check my temperature and air pressure :)
[17:12] #knownspace> Hippy: xilir, you're right about artificially inflated prices, though
[17:12] #knownspace> sean: heh.. i wonder what it actually displaying for hippy.
[17:12] #knownspace> Hippy: I could've bought BF3 in the US, but it probably wouldn't work here once the game found out I live here
[17:12] #knownspace> xihr: yeah
[17:12] #knownspace> Hippy: Not that the damn thing works anyway!
[17:13] #knownspace> xihr: heh
[17:13] #knownspace> xihr: it works ... ort of
[17:13] #knownspace> xihr: sort*
[17:13] #knownspace> Hippy: It said KGNT, wherever that is
[17:13] #knownspace> sean: .g KGNT
[17:13] #knownspace> Outsider: sean:
[17:13] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, it sort of works for me, too, but I think my video card just isn't up to it. Or motherboard
[17:13] #knownspace> sean: thats not right
[17:14] #knownspace> Hippy: And I don't want to upgrade just for one game
[17:14] #knownspace> xihr: Hippy: I have a dedicated game machine that's fallen a little behind, fortunately all I have to do is upgrade the GPU (and probably add some more memory to be safe)
[17:14] #knownspace> AlexA: .g £35 in $
[17:14] #knownspace> Outsider: AlexA:
[17:14] #knownspace> xihr: just haven't gotten around to it yet
[17:14] #knownspace> sean: i have been thinking about playing world of warcraft but dont know if i want to give up the time.
[17:14] #knownspace> xihr: I think I deserve a big monitor, too
[17:14] #knownspace> xihr: sean: if you're concerned about the timewasting aspect, then DON'T
[17:15] #knownspace> sean: good advice i would think
[17:15] #knownspace> AlexA: Yeah Ive avoided MMOs so far
[17:15] #knownspace> xihr: Time played 67h 35m
[17:15] #knownspace> xihr: see BF3 works most of the time :-)
[17:15] #knownspace> Lensman: Anybody got a recommendation for a good basic video card? I'm using onboard video, but it doesn't seem to be fast enough for high-res YouTube videos. I'm planning to upgrade, but don't want to spend a lot of money.
[17:15] #knownspace> Hippy: I love Lordof the Rings Online, but I have the time for it
[17:15] #knownspace> Hippy: You poor working stiffs probably don't
[17:15] #knownspace> xihr: Lensman: get a mid range nVidia GeForce, they're relatively inexpensive
[17:15] #knownspace> xihr: if you're just going to do YouTube, videos, a low-range one would be fine too
[17:16] #knownspace> sean: make sure you match your architecture and card.
[17:16] #knownspace> AlexA: Tom's hardware do good video card round-ups
[17:16] #knownspace> Lensman: nVidia GeForce, thanks I'll write that down.
[17:16] #knownspace> xihr: Lensman: it's the industry standard, basically
[17:16] #knownspace> AlexA: .g toms hardware
[17:16] #knownspace> Outsider: AlexA:
[17:16] #knownspace> Lensman: Well not just YouTube, but and other TV shows online.
[17:16] #knownspace> xihr: there are other competitors (well, one), but there tend to be compatibility problems
[17:16] #knownspace> xihr: but listen to sean; make sure that it's the right interface for your motherboard (check first, open it up)
[17:17] #knownspace> AlexA:,3067.html
[17:17] #knownspace> xihr: if your motherboard is really old you may have an out-of-date one
[17:17] #knownspace> Lensman: But I don't do graphics intense games. I prefer strategy games that let me think about moves. My reaction speed has never been good enuff for FPS games.
[17:17] #knownspace> Hippy: Is there a way for the opsys to tell you what your motherboard is?
[17:17] #knownspace> AlexA: That link is their latest review
[17:17] #knownspace> sean: hippy, i always open it up and look for make and model
[17:17] #knownspace> xihr: Lensman: I'm fine with FPS games, it's the RTS games that tire me out (they're unfriendly called "click-fests")
[17:18] #knownspace> Hippy: Okay. I foresee a day of squinting ahead of me :)
[17:18] #knownspace> Lensman: Sounds like I need to call the computer geek who put my system together and ask about compatibilty, then.
[17:18] #knownspace> xihr: Lensman: yeah, that'd be most straightforward
[17:18] #knownspace> Lensman: "RTS" ?
[17:18] #knownspace> xihr: like I said, if all you want is to watch YT videos, it doesn't really matter that you get a nice card, just a slightly better one
[17:18] #knownspace> xihr: real-time strategy
[17:18] #knownspace> Lensman: Oh, real-time. Yeah, I tried one and hated it.
[17:19] #knownspace> xihr: y
[17:19] #knownspace> xihr: especially in MP, they are click-fests and rush-fests
[17:19] #knownspace> xihr: if you want a cute TBS online game, try
[17:19] #knownspace> Lensman: So I'm still playing Master of Orion 2 and Civ II.
[17:19] #knownspace> Lensman: Ancient...
[17:19] #knownspace> xihr: but good
[17:19] #knownspace> sean: hey, i still play xcom ufo defense
[17:19] #knownspace> xihr: I haven't played them in a while; Civ IV is the pinnacle, is my impression
[17:20] #knownspace> AlexA: I still like original Civ
[17:20] #knownspace> xihr: Civ V is highly regarded, but they changed things a fair amount and people haven't fully adjusted
[17:20] #knownspace> AlexA: Need to re-install it
[17:20] #knownspace> xihr: heh
[17:20] #knownspace> Lensman: Recently got Star Empires IV, didn't care for it. Click-fest, as you say. I want *less* micro-management, not more!
[17:20] #knownspace> dmac44: I'm heading out. Happy Holidays to all. See you next year.
[17:20] #knownspace> xihr: Lensman: yeah, every time I give a new RTS a shot I end up being unhappy
[17:20] #knownspace> Hippy: I must say that I couldn't get into Civ V, either
[17:20] #knownspace> Lensman: I'd love to be able to play the old Apple II "Colonial Conquest" but haven't been able to get it to work with a Windows Apple II emulator.
[17:21] #knownspace> Lensman: Sounds like I should try Civ IV.
[17:21] #knownspace> Hippy: I think I may fire up the old Colonization later today
[17:21] #knownspace> sean: the IIgs emulators for linux are pretty good
[17:21] #knownspace> xihr: Hippy: I'm not into Civ that much, but I've heard mixed reviews from avid Civ fans -- and the positive reviews start with "it's got problems, but ..."
[17:21] #knownspace> xihr: Lensman: y, sounds like it'd be right up your alley
[17:21] #knownspace> xihr: it's old now, so cheap, too
[17:21] #knownspace> Hippy: The Civ IV mod of that was. . .well, let's not start all that toilet stuff again
[17:22] #knownspace> Lensman: I'd never go back to Civ I after Civ II.
[17:22] #knownspace> Lensman: Contrariwise, I'd love to be able to play the original "Master of Orion". Or even "Reach for the Stars".
[17:22] #knownspace> Hippy: Hmm. Do I have Civ I around? Hmm. . .
[17:22] #knownspace> xihr: the RFTS remake was bizarre
[17:23] #knownspace> Lensman: Please expand, xihr.
[17:24] #knownspace> NickE: I sent Frank G my copy of Civ1 on floppies (4 or 5 IIRC) many years back
[17:24] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, prikazyvat expound
[17:24] #knownspace> NickE: couldn't get into it
[17:24] #knownspace> sean: I have a lot of Frank's stuff but not that, Nick.
[17:24] #knownspace> xihr: Lensman: they went with this weird circular interface for everything where you rotated selections around on a track, it's hard to explain
[17:25] #knownspace> Lensman: So, you're saying the interface was bad.
[17:25] #knownspace> xihr: google: I don't mean the SONIC game
[17:25] #knownspace> NickE: had teh original manual as well
[17:25] #knownspace> xihr: well, more bizarre and confusing than bad
[17:25] #knownspace> xihr: but yeah let's go with bad
[17:25] #knownspace> xihr: :-)
[17:25] #knownspace> Lensman: You lost me, I don't know SONIC from a short-order restaurant.
[17:25] #knownspace> NickE: aboy 5 blue 3.5 diskettes
[17:25] #knownspace> xihr: Sonic the Hedgehog
[17:25] #knownspace> AlexA: I had Civ1 on AtariST first!
[17:25] #knownspace> xihr: evidently has a game subtitled "Reach for the Stars" -- it's interfering with my search results
[17:25] #knownspace> xihr: sec, let me get you a screenshot
[17:26] #knownspace> AlexA: Then got pc version (on CD)
[17:26] #knownspace> Lensman: Thanks xihr
[17:26] #knownspace> xihr: wow, it's hard to find things on the remake -- that's how quickly it faded into obscurity
[17:27] #knownspace> sean: try adding the word abandonware
[17:27] #knownspace> xihr: won't help; they're both abandonware and the original is much more popular
[17:27] #knownspace> Lensman: As I recall, in MOO 1 and original RFTS you could build as many planetary defense bases as you want, or as many industry units as you want. Seems stupid in MOO2 that you can build each type of building only once on a planet. So in some ways I'd still prefer MOO1. Sometimes it's nice to play a shorter game, too.
[17:32] #knownspace> Hippy: Don't all talk at once
[17:33] #knownspace> xihr: here we go
[17:33] #knownspace> xihr: see screenshots; that circular selection motif was everywhere
[17:34] #knownspace> AlexA: Watching Liam Neeson being badass in "Taken"
[17:34] #knownspace> sean: good movie
[17:34] #knownspace> sean: a-team was surprisingly good as well.
[17:34] #knownspace> Hippy: Pondering the lawn, and whether I need to mow it
[17:34] #knownspace> xihr: AlexA: yes, fun movie
[17:35] #knownspace> xihr: nice and simple
[17:35] #knownspace> sean: watching the SEC championship game. LSU v Georgia
[17:37] #knownspace> Hippy: What type of game?
[17:37] #knownspace> sean: College football
[17:37] #knownspace> Hippy: I mean, football, baseball, tiddly-winks, what - ah. . .
[17:37] #knownspace> sean: american style
[17:37] #knownspace> Lensman: Don't understand the pricing on older 'puter games. Does really think I'm gonna pay $56 for a 6 year old game, when they also offer it used for less than $4?
[17:37] #knownspace> sean: SEC=South Eastern Conference
[17:37] #knownspace> xihr: Lensman: example?
[17:38] #knownspace> Hippy: Ah, yes
[17:38] #knownspace> Lensman: Anyway, thanks xihr, it certainly looks interesting enough-- that new RFTS game, I mean-- to try it out used.
[17:38] #knownspace> sean: amazons used stuff is kinda like ebay
[17:39] #knownspace> xihr: Lensman: I don't recommend it, the UI is way too awkward
[17:39] #knownspace> xihr: it LOOKS neat, but it's frustrating and confusing to use
[17:39] #knownspace> Lensman: Anybody see any good TV shows lately? My favorite new is "Hell on Wheels". The first episode was meh, but it's improved vastly since. Very disappointed with "Terra Nova". Great setup, lousy stories.
[17:40] #knownspace> AlexA: Walking Dead. Burn Notice
[17:40] #knownspace> Lensman: xihr: Okay, thanks for the warning.
[17:40] #knownspace> Hippy: I'd agree on 'Terra Nova'
[17:40] #knownspace> sean: i heard walking dead was good but havent watched any
[17:40] #knownspace> AlexA: Got Castle backed up on PVR
[17:40] #knownspace> sean: i am not much for tv with commercials
[17:40] #knownspace> Hippy: I don't think that's crossed the equator either
[17:40] #knownspace> Lensman: I watched "Burn Notice" for years, it was very good, but it's gotten old and worn out for me.
[17:40] #knownspace> sean: other than sporting events
[17:41] #knownspace> Lensman: I watched enough of 1 ep of "Walking Dead" to know it's not for me.
[17:41] #knownspace> Hippy: 'Big Bang Theory' is still a delight
[17:41] #knownspace> sean: burn notice is like the a team show.... lots of bullets and explosions but no on ever dies. well very infrequently
[17:41] #knownspace> Hippy: 'QI' is good
[17:41] #knownspace> Lensman: "QI" ?
[17:42] #knownspace> Hippy: 'Doc Martin' has just finsiehd here, so I am going to miss it
[17:42] #knownspace> AlexA: +1 for BigBang & QI
[17:42] #knownspace> AlexA: .wik QI
[17:42] #knownspace> Outsider: "QI (Quite Interesting) is a British comedy panel game television quiz show created and co-produced by John Lloyd, hosted by Stephen Fry, and featuring permanent panellist Alan Davies." -
[17:42] #knownspace> Lensman: Interesting comparison, "A Team" to "Burn Notice". The latter is like the former, only not with retards. ;-)
[17:42] #knownspace> Hippy: English show. A quiz ahow where the contestants have to say something 'Quite Interesting' to score points
[17:43] #knownspace> sean: i did not make the comparison. a guy i know who watches burn notice did. I dont watch burn notice
[17:43] #knownspace> AlexA: Burn Notice is popcorn TV for me
[17:44] #knownspace> Lensman: I see a petition to bring QI to the USA, so I guess that answers my question. Maybe it will eventually show up on "BBC America".
[17:44] #knownspace> AlexA: Bruce Campbell & Gabrielle Anwar make it worth watching
[17:45] #knownspace> sean: 99 percent of bbc america is gordon ramsey. yuck
[17:45] #knownspace> Hippy: Amen to that, Sean
[17:45] #knownspace> Lensman: Bruce Campbell is far and away the best reason to watch "Burn Notice".
[17:45] #knownspace> sean: i wont argue with you there, lensman.
[17:45] #knownspace> Hippy: You should be able to get snippets of 'QI' on YouTube, but of course you may not be able to see it that well
[17:46] #knownspace> sean: nice to see that bruce has moved from b movie king to a steady paycheck anyway
[17:46] #knownspace> Lensman: As far as G Anwar... I prefer women who don't look like they're about to die of starvation.
[17:47] #knownspace> Hippy: You'd like 'Mike and Molly', then
[17:47] #knownspace> AlexA: She is skinny but I don't thinknit looks unnatural
[17:48] #knownspace> sean: if you want a fun bruce cambell movie, look for 'my name is bruce'
[17:48] #knownspace> Lensman: But it was always nice to see Campbell in his B movies! I almost always enjoyed them. "Bubba Ho-Tep" was fabulous! The only thing I've seen him in that I wanted the 90 minutes of my life back was a stupid made-for-the-Siffy-Channel movie "Alien Invasion" or something like that.
[17:48] #knownspace> AlexA: He was good as Elvis in "Bubba Hotep"
[17:49] #knownspace> Lensman: (Lensman high-fives AlexA)
[17:49] #knownspace> AlexA: Beat me to it!
[17:49] #knownspace> Lensman: And I loved "Brisco County, Jr." too. Which had Campbell as the star! I need to get that whole series on DVD.
[17:50] #knownspace> sean: i will have to look for that... did not realize cambell was the star of that
[17:50] #knownspace> AlexA: I haven't seen Brisco - I mean to check it out
[17:50] #knownspace> NickE: suposd to be good
[17:51] #knownspace> Lensman: I'll try to remember "My Name Is Bruce".
[17:51] #knownspace> AlexA: Talking of old TV shows - is "Tales ofvthe Golden Monkey" any good?
[17:51] #knownspace> Lensman: No.
[17:51] #knownspace> sean: never seen monkey
[17:51] #knownspace> AlexA: Meant to be Indy-ish
[17:51] #knownspace> Hippy: As I recall, no it wasn't
[17:51] #knownspace> Hippy: Wasn't good, I mean
[17:51] #knownspace> Lensman: Not unless you like the "Young Indiana Jones" TV show. It's only slightly better.
[17:52] #knownspace> sean: my name is bruce is basically bruce spoofing himself
[17:52] #knownspace> Lensman: -k-
[17:52] #knownspace> AlexA: I found young Indy boring :(
[17:52] #knownspace> sean: damn funny
[17:52] #knownspace> Lensman: Very boring.
[17:52] #knownspace> sean: damn funny comment about bruce
[17:52] #knownspace> Lensman: "Golden Monkey" was only slightly more interesting.
[17:53] #knownspace> AlexA: I'll skip then
[17:53] #knownspace> AlexA: I'll try Brisco & my name... Instead :)
[17:53] #knownspace> sean: you could always try 'the librarian' series
[17:54] #knownspace> sean: its semi-indy
[17:54] #knownspace> AlexA: I think SyFy Uk shows Librarian series
[17:54] #knownspace> sean: kinda made for tv stuff
[17:54] #knownspace> AlexA: Never watched though
[17:54] #knownspace> sean: if there is nothing else on.... you know what i mean
[17:54] #knownspace> Lensman: I think I've seen "The Librarian" on the list of what's on... I'll check it out, thanks.
[17:55] #knownspace> Lensman: Actually I think I saw something labeled "The Librarian". Dunno if it was the same thing or not.
[17:56] #knownspace> Lensman: Did seem to be semi-Indy-ish. But more like Giles on "Buffy", as I recall.
[17:56] #knownspace> sean: the first i believe was the librarian then after there are the librarian: some sub title
[17:56] #knownspace> Hippy: Now, there's a series of radio shows called 'Atomic Tales' from the BBC that is pretty good
[17:57] #knownspace> Lensman: Well, since I'm over 55, I no longer watch "I'll watch this 'cuz there's nuthin' better on." The TV stays off if that's the case. Like it's off right now.
[17:57] #knownspace> Hippy: .wik Atomic Tales
[17:57] #knownspace> Outsider: "Search for 'Atomic Tales' in existing articles." -
[17:57] #knownspace> Hippy: Dang
[17:57] #knownspace> Lensman: If it's "radio" then perhaps I can listen to a recording online.
[17:58] #knownspace> Hippy: The point is they're satires of 1950's America, in an SF format
[17:58] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, I think you can
[17:58] #knownspace> Lensman: But I admit I never got into "radio dramas".
[17:58] #knownspace> AlexA: I try not to just watch tv for sake if it
[17:58] #knownspace> sean: oh, hippy, i guess you have a kindle, right?
[17:58] #knownspace> Hippy: I have DVDs for that
[17:59] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, Sean, I certainly do
[17:59] #knownspace> AlexA: Well HitchHikers was radio first
[17:59] #knownspace> sean: i think a kindle touch is in my future.
[17:59] #knownspace> AlexA: BBC radio dramatisation of LOTR is very good
[17:59] #knownspace> sean: i have never messed with one. cool thing to have?
[17:59] #knownspace> Hippy: I'm sure you'll get a lot of use out of it, Sean. Mine gets quite a workout
[18:01] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, gentlemen (and bots) it's just after 10 here, so I think I shall adjourn and do some cleaning
[18:01] #knownspace> AlexA: 11pm here
[18:01] #knownspace> AlexA: Bye
[18:01] #knownspace> Hippy: Have a good Christmas and I"ll see you next year
[18:02] #knownspace> sean: later hippy
[18:02] #knownspace> AlexA: Seeya
[18:02] #knownspace> NickE: night
[18:02] #knownspace> NickE: yep BBC LOTR is the standard by which I judged the films
[18:02] #knownspace> xihr: later
[18:04] #knownspace> AlexA: Personally I prefer the Radio version as it takes fewer liberties
[18:05] #knownspace> Lensman: I think they really blew it with things like "Tales of the Gold Monkey" and "The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles" or whatever it was called. The original movie was a pastiche of 30s serials. They should have made the TV show a 1/2 hour adventure serial, with a cliff-hanger at the end of every episode until the end of a story arc.
[18:07] #knownspace> NickE: I'd rate the film highly, but agree that as an adpatation, the 13 hour radio version is way better
[18:07] #knownspace> NickE: Jackson acknowledges the BBC version in one of teh extras on the DVDs
[18:07] #knownspace> AlexA: Feel the same
[18:07] #knownspace> Lensman: Peter Jackson's LOTR certainly takes a lot of liberties. But I won't criticize him for that. Cinema is a different story-telling form than literature. I think PJ made a much better movie trilogy than he would have by slavishly sticking closely to the original.
[18:08] #knownspace> AlexA: I don't changes to make it cinematic
[18:08] #knownspace> NickE: oh totaly. It works on screen because of the way it was changed
[18:08] #knownspace> AlexA: Don't mind
[18:08] #knownspace> NickE: Don't agree with all of them, but overall it worked very well
[18:09] #knownspace> AlexA: Some changes seemed arbitary
[18:09] #knownspace> sean: how about a movie adaption of elfstones of shannara?
[18:09] #knownspace> AlexA: Faramir for example
[18:09] #knownspace> NickE: many bits on screen were almost *exactly* as the scene appeared in my head
[18:10] #knownspace> NickE: wll yes and Arwen hardly makes a mark in the book at all
[18:10] #knownspace> AlexA: Don't mind Arwen stuff
[18:10] #knownspace> AlexA: Why cut Gandalf vs Wargs?
[18:10] #knownspace> AlexA: Great action scene
[18:11] #knownspace> NickE: inded
[18:11] #knownspace> NickE: indeed
[18:11] xihr has joined #knownspace
[18:11] #knownspace> NickE: both versions wisely cut Bombadil completely
[18:11] #knownspace> Lensman: You can always watch the two cartoon movie adaptations of LOTR!
[18:12] #knownspace> Lensman: <Lensman ducks>
[18:12] #knownspace> NickE: sheesh
[18:12] #knownspace> AlexA: Didn't mind the Backshi (sp) movie
[18:12] #knownspace> NickE: was always a difficult job, 70s animation just wasnt up to it
[18:12] #knownspace> AlexA: But not seen it for a long time
[18:13] #knownspace> Lensman: My only real criticism of PJ's version is he cut so much of the joyful scenes, and concentrated so much on the dark stuff. The Tom Bombadil sequence is one of the upbeat sequences left out.
[18:13] #knownspace> NickE: I liked the first one a s afair stab at a difficult task
[18:13] #knownspace> AlexA: Gollem actor same as BBC
[18:13] #knownspace> NickE: oh c'mon Bombadil was dullness
[18:14] #knownspace> NickE: if Andy Serkis was about 3
[18:14] #knownspace> Lensman: "Froooo-doooo of the niiiiiine fiiiiingerrrrrs..." Blech!
[18:14] #knownspace> sean: i have only watched parts of them. did PJ do the razing of the shire?
[18:14] #knownspace> NickE: only in dream seq
[18:14] #knownspace> NickE: briefly
[18:14] #knownspace> Lensman: Nope, scouring of the Shire completely left out. And an improvement IMHO. That whole thing is a huge anticlimax after the War of the Ring.
[18:15] #knownspace> Lensman: Sacriledge, I know!
[18:15] #knownspace> NickE: Christopher Lee rightly pissed off with how Saruman was treated
[18:15] #knownspace> Lensman: Oh, that's right, there was a short dream sequence.
[18:15] #knownspace> Lensman: Just some disturbing images, not the story of Saruman taking over the Shire.
[18:16] #knownspace> NickE: very short...but then what do you cut? Wouldn't want to make those choices
[18:16] xihr has joined #knownspace
[18:16] #knownspace> NickE: wb
[18:16] #knownspace> AlexA: Makes sense cutting Scouring
[18:17] #knownspace> NickE: No Sharkey's End was powerfull stuff in teh book, but understand reasons for dropping
[18:18] #knownspace> sean: is the hobbit going to be made?
[18:18] #knownspace> NickE: best way to view the films is as a respectful interpretation of teh story
[18:18] #knownspace> AlexA: Pity it couldn't have made it into extended version
[18:18] #knownspace> NickE: as fara as I know yes
[18:18] #knownspace> AlexA: PJ has posted 3 video diaries from Hobbit shoot
[18:19] #knownspace> NickE: geez Xandr, teh extendd versions are long enouh! :-)
[18:19] #knownspace> sean: the hobbit is a great story in itself
[18:19] #knownspace> AlexA: It's underway
[18:19] #knownspace> Lensman: Yes, Jackson finally agreed to executive produce a two-picture "The Hobbit", which will be extended with more of the backstory for LOTR to bridge the gap between "Hobbit" and LOTR.
[18:19] #knownspace> NickE: funny, I was always a bit "meh" about The Hobbit despite reading it first
[18:20] #knownspace> AlexA: In 3d!
[18:20] #knownspace> NickE: (bio break)
[18:20] #knownspace> NickE: yuk 3D!
[18:20] #knownspace> NickE: hate 3D
[18:20] #knownspace> sean: i cant do 3d so dont care
[18:20] #knownspace> NickE: bloody awful gimick
[18:20] #knownspace> sean: i dont go to theaters anymore
[18:20] #knownspace> xihr: hoping this 3D fad passes soon (like all the other attempts did)
[18:20] #knownspace> NickE: don't blame you
[18:20] #knownspace> xihr: sean: who would with home entertainment systems
[18:20] #knownspace> NickE: indeed!
[18:20] #knownspace> Lensman: The whole thing became a big political mess in New Zealand, with strikes by the behind-the-scenes film workers' unions.
[18:20] #knownspace> AlexA: Lensman: They've rejigged it - now just the book in 2 parts
[18:20] #knownspace> NickE: gotta pee!
[18:21] #knownspace> AlexA: "bridging movie" is gone
[18:21] #knownspace> xihr: NickE: let us know how it goes :-)
[18:21] #knownspace> Lensman: But PJ finally made it clear that he'd just pack up the production and move to Ireland if they didn't stop that nonsense. A lot of politicians who tried to use the mess for their own advantage wound up with egg on their faces, or worse.
[18:22] #knownspace> AlexA: Looks like they're trying hard to make the 3d work
[18:22] #knownspace> AlexA: It's coveted by one of the video diaries
[18:22] #knownspace> AlexA: Covered
[18:23] #knownspace> AlexA: I find after first few scenes I forget I'm watching 3d
[18:23] #knownspace> AlexA: So it's pretty pointless
[18:23] #knownspace> Lensman: Really bad how New Line tried to screw over PJ. I guess that sort of crap is expected in Hollywood, but NZ ain't Hollywood! You shouldn't have to sue to get the percentage the studio agreed to.
[18:23] #knownspace> xihr: it bugs some people/messes with their focus and always will
[18:23] #knownspace> NickE: <ahhh>
[18:23] #knownspace> xihr: so it'll never be universal
[18:23] #knownspace> xihr: especially annoying if you wear glasses, etc.
[18:24] #knownspace> sean: give it time
[18:24] #knownspace> sean: they will figure it out and we will be watching holostages in a few years
[18:24] #knownspace> AlexA: Yeap I wear glasses so another -ve
[18:24] #knownspace> NickE: nope, I want my films flat
[18:24] #knownspace> xihr: okay but let's skip to that part and do away with this faddy nonsense that keeps popping up over and over again
[18:24] #knownspace> Lensman: I don't know how "The Hobbit" would work as two movies, just by itself. Doesn't seem to be that much material unless the movies are each *very* short.
[18:25] #knownspace> NickE: and TBH with modern cinematography and sound, why bother with 3d?
[18:25] #knownspace> AlexA: They're pulling in background stuff (White council vs "necromancer" in Mirkwood etc)
[18:26] #knownspace> NickE: saw Tron Legacy in 3d and that was enough to put me off for good (not just cos it was a shit film)
[18:26] #knownspace> Lensman: Why? Because it's a way to get people to come to the cinema instead of waiting for the DVD, that's what. It's about making going to the cinema an experience you can't get at home.
[18:27] #knownspace> Lensman: "Tron Legacy" looked great on our new 55" plasma screen! Sure the story wasn't much, but then the same is true of the original film.
[18:27] #knownspace> NickE: and currently its a fucking dear experience that i can live without. And yes, I resent that becasue I used to enjoy it.
[18:27] #knownspace> Lensman: "Tron" was intended to be eye candy, and it works very well as that.
[18:28] #knownspace> NickE: Tinker Tailor (no bloody 3d) was excellent
[18:28] #knownspace> NickE: that I didn't mind paying to see
[18:28] #knownspace> xihr: Lensman: yes, obviously that's what they're going for (since their business model is tanking), but the question is it worth it
[18:28] #knownspace> NickE: not IMO
[18:28] #knownspace> xihr: the market will decide, so far it's still in the rejuvinated fad stage, so it's yet to be seen
[18:28] #knownspace> xihr: me either
[18:29] #knownspace> Lensman: I'm very glad I saw "Avatar" for the first time in 3D. That was excellent. Other uses of 3D have been less well handled.
[18:29] #knownspace> NickE: look, my *kids* didn't want to go see Dawn Treader because it was only on in 3d
[18:29] #knownspace> NickE: not just me
[18:30] #knownspace> NickE: I dunno. As long as they don't force it into teh home market I'll just wait for folks to realise that it's a fad
[18:30] #knownspace> Lensman: Analysis I saw recently suggested that 3D should be saved for blockbuster projects, it's not appropriate for the average film. I always look at the reviews of 3D films, and unless the use of 3D is praised, I don't bother. Why spend more and give myself vision problems if it's not an improvement?
[18:30] #knownspace> NickE: again
[18:31] #knownspace> NickE: this is what, the 3rd reveival of 3d since Hous of Wax?
[18:32] #knownspace> NickE: if a good 3d film is where you don't go "oh, gratuitous 3d shot" whats the point?
[18:32] #knownspace> Lensman: Well, for me at least this *is* an improved process. It doesn't give me headaches like the old 3D of the 50s-60s. This new process only means putting a second pair of glasses in front of my regular glasses, which can be a problem with fogging but otherwise doesn't bother me much.
[18:33] #knownspace> NickE: its too bloody dark in that situation (I wear glasses these days too)
[18:34] #knownspace> Lensman: Nick: They made exactly the same criticism about sound movies back in the day. The argument fails if it helps create a more realistic experience for the audience.
[18:34] #knownspace> sean: anybody see how these 3d tv's actually look? i have not.
[18:34] #knownspace> Lensman: Same thing when color was new.
[18:34] #knownspace> Lensman: Haven't seen a 3D TV myself. A friend of mine says the tech ain't there yet.
[18:34] #knownspace> NickE: agree
[18:35] #knownspace> sean: i have a 1080p LG and love it.
[18:35] #knownspace> NickE: personally, I want a movie at a slight remove from reality. Its supposed to be escapism, I don't want it so realistic that I can't tell teh difference
[18:37] #knownspace> sean: depends on the movie... war movies like we were soldiers yes. avatar i want crystal clear.
[18:37] #knownspace> NickE: OB Niven: Louis watching teh whole Changeling Earth Saberhagen epic (would love to see that) in 2D
[18:37] #knownspace> Lensman: I want to immerse myself in the experience I want to lose myself in the story. I want to forget I'm watching a movie and "experience the reality". That's one reason I have a set of audiophile grade surround sound speakers.
[18:37] #knownspace> NickE: fair point
[18:38] #knownspace> NickE: does depend on teh story
[18:39] #knownspace> sean: we were soldiers in 1080p is slightly grainy with incredible surround sound. as intended i think. vietnam should be slightly grainy
[18:39] #knownspace> NickE: but if the story is good enough, I'm lost in it anyway - like great radio, the pictures from a good book are better
[18:39] #knownspace> NickE: in my head
[18:40] #knownspace> Lensman: Yes, if it's an intense realistic war movie like "Saving Private Ryan" or "Blackhawk Down" then it does get too intense for me. But I'd prefer to deal with that by just not watching such movies at all, not by watching them at a remove.
[18:40] #knownspace> NickE: LOTR scored with me because it matched that in several places
[18:40] #knownspace> NickE: scarily so in a couple of instances
[18:41] #knownspace> sean: 2001 in 1080p is crystal clear and just beautiful.
[18:41] #knownspace> NickE: aye, taht sound good
[18:41] #knownspace> Lensman: Yeah, "The pictures in my head from a good book are better." That's one reason I'm very leery of a "Ringworld" movie. I doubt they'd do it justice.
[18:42] #knownspace> NickE: kind of agree, but LOTR showed that at least it's possible
[18:42] #knownspace> xihr: Lensman: wholeheartedly agree
[18:42] #knownspace> Lensman: I've watched one sequence from "2001" on Blu-Ray, but I need to watch the whole thing.
[18:42] #knownspace> sean: yes
[18:42] #knownspace> NickE: but I think I'll stick with teh head pics
[18:42] #knownspace> sean: you do
[18:43] #knownspace> NickE: Films like that may be why I eventually get a blu-ray
[18:43] #knownspace> Lensman: Well, if Peter Jackson wants to do "Ringworld", he'd have my blessing! Unfortunately it's more likely to wind up like "Riverworld" (shudder!)
[18:43] #knownspace> sean: i do not have a disk player attached to my tv
[18:44] #knownspace> Lensman: sean: Because you have your computer attached?
[18:44] #knownspace> sean: i highly recommend the wd tv live media player
[18:44] #knownspace> sean: i have the entire internet attached
[18:44] #knownspace> Lensman: So please tell us about the wd tv live media player.
[18:45] #knownspace> sean: plays youtube, blockbuster, netflix and everything that you have on your network. as well as about 15 other online sources that i dont use and cant remember
[18:46] #knownspace> sean: music, pictures
[18:46] #knownspace> Lensman: I looked around for some such when my Mom wanted to get a Netflix subscription, but couldn't find anything that didn't pile another subscription on top of Netflix. So I wound up recommending just using mail-order DVDs to her.
[18:47] #knownspace> sean: connects 1080p to tv, optically to the stereo, 100 megabit ethernet
[18:47] #knownspace> sean: you can use this with you netflix subscription and ditch the dvd in the mailbox
[18:48] #knownspace> sean: i think i paid 119 bucks for it at best buy last year
[18:48] #knownspace> Lensman: So what support do you need to play YouTube videos? High-speed Internet connection, an ethernet connection to your router, and what? Is there a monthly fee for WD TV?
[18:48] #knownspace> sean: there is no monthly fee with the device
[18:49] #knownspace> sean: other than what you use it for
[18:49] #knownspace> Lensman: Aha! Maybe this is what I should get to interface with the new plasma TV.
[18:49] #knownspace> sean: if you dont use netflix... you dont pay netflix
[18:49] #knownspace> sean: it has hdmi out
[18:50] #knownspace> sean: to me, it is perfect
[18:50] #knownspace> Lensman: Well, Netflix is screwed because they divided the mail subscription and the streaming. Since streaming hardly ever has anything watchable, I switched her to keep the mail-order.
[18:50] #knownspace> sean: i know nothing about that... just saying you can key your codes in and do it
[18:51] #knownspace> Lensman: Scratch that... hardly ever has any specific title she wants to see.
[18:51] #knownspace> sean: it can even accept usb sources like external hard drives
[18:51] #knownspace> sean: 2 usb ports
[18:51] #knownspace> sean: so you can plug in a wireless usb keyboard to do youtube searches
[18:52] #knownspace> Lensman: Is "knownspaceARM" a 'bot, Sean?
[18:53] #knownspace> sean: so if you have a pc on your network with a dvd or blu-ray drive you can share it and access it from the media player
[18:53] #knownspace> sean: knownspaceARM is the log bot
[18:53] #knownspace> Lensman: -k-
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[18:53] #knownspace> NickE: well, gotta go get some zeds
[18:54] #knownspace> Lensman: Bye Nick
[18:54] #knownspace> sean: later nick... type to ya later
[18:54] #knownspace> NickE: pleasuer as always peeps
[18:54] #knownspace> xihr: later
[18:54] #knownspace> NickE: TTFN
[18:54] #knownspace> AlexA: 'night
[18:54] #knownspace> sean: wb alex
[18:55] #knownspace> AlexA: Battery died
[18:55] #knownspace> Lensman: xihr, your screen name has me curious. Would you care to explain, or is it a secret?
[18:55] #knownspace> sean: as you probably noticed, i love hi def stuff and the wd tv live is excellent. highly recommended.
[18:55] #knownspace> xihr: Lensman: not a terribly interesting one: hint: xi / hr
[18:56] #knownspace> sean: 11th hour
[18:56] #knownspace> xihr: y
[18:56] #knownspace> xihr: which has no special meaning (beyond the usual); its primary function is that it's short and unlikely to be used :-)
[18:56] #knownspace> sean: sorry, drinking or i would be faster
[18:56] #knownspace> Lensman: I bought my original home theatre system in the mid-90s. Trying to upgrade... well, the field has expanded so much, and is growing at leaps and bounds! Hard to know what to spend money on.
[18:57] #knownspace> Lensman: Okay, 11th hour.
[18:57] #knownspace> sean: well, lens, the most obvious is the primary... the display device should be king
[18:58] #knownspace> Lensman: Since I'm such a procrastinator, that would work for me too! Altho I'm not as bad as some.
[18:58] #knownspace> sean: but sound makes up half of what you see in the high def so a good surround sound system is essential
[18:59] #knownspace> sean: but if you dont have a hi def source any upgrade is pointless
[18:59] #knownspace> Lensman: But audiophiles know that sound is equally as important as picture. Fortunately my 5.1 speakers are fine, it's my receiver that needs an upgrade.
[19:00] #knownspace> Lensman: Oh, you already said that. My bad.
[19:00] #knownspace> AlexA: Nearly midnight so I'm off
[19:00] #knownspace> sean: personal choice for a great 5.1 or better reciever is Onkyo
[19:00] #knownspace> AlexA: See ya guys
[19:00] #knownspace> sean: later alex
[19:01] #knownspace> Lensman: I have an Onkyo, planning on upgrading to an Onkyo. :)
[19:01] #knownspace> sean: i think they are up to 7.1 now
[19:01] #knownspace> Lensman: A more expensive, newer Onkyo.
[19:02] #knownspace> Lensman: I don't really think I need more speakers. 5.1 is fine for me. What I need is the ability to decode stuff like DTS Hi-Def, which currently I can't.
[19:02] #knownspace> Lensman: Also I need the ability to route all the video signals thru the reciever so I can mix & match picture & sound.
[19:06] #knownspace> sean: not really following you
[19:06] #knownspace> Lensman: Sometimes I might want to show a picture from one source and sound from a CD or other source.
[19:07] #knownspace> sean: rifftrax perhaps
[19:07] #knownspace> Lensman: The receiver I'm looking at will not only handle the high-def sound formats, it will allow to switch separately between sound and picture sources.
[19:07] #knownspace> Lensman: Also, the plasma TV has a limited number of inputs. Just one component in. So switching via the receiver is just about a necessity.
[19:08] #knownspace> sean: i have never done it like that. i always run video to the tv. all audio to the receiver and pick source
[19:09] #knownspace> sean: with multifunction remotes, no reason to run it all through the reciever
[19:09] #knownspace> Lensman: Well, at this point I've got more interconnects from different sources than I have inputs on the TV.
[19:10] #knownspace> sean: your stuff is probably different than mine
[19:10] #knownspace> Lensman: And the TV doesn't even have a S-video or composite input at all. I need to plug everything into the reciever and let it be converted to HDMI.
[19:11] #knownspace> Lensman: I'm sure it's different.
[19:11] #knownspace> Lensman: That was one criticism of the TV that I read about before buying it, but at the time didn't think it was important. I don't really think it was a mistake, I need to upgrade my receiver regardless.
[19:12] #knownspace> Lensman: More connections on the back of the HDTV still woudn't give me DTS sound.
[19:12] #knownspace> sean: true
[19:13] #knownspace> sean: with the media player i was able to eliminate the s-video connection and dvd player
[19:13] #knownspace> sean: now just 3 connections to the tv. wii, satellite and media player
[19:13] #knownspace> sean: 2 hdmi and 1 component
[19:13] #knownspace> sean: oops composite.
[19:14] #knownspace> sean: the wii used the yellow and red and white cable
[19:14] #knownspace> Lensman: It was funny, the Laser Rangers-- my videophile/movie buff friends-- and I were trying to set up the new HDTV, and one of the guys grabbed the "Moulin Rouge" DVD and put that in. We about drove ourselves crazy trying to set up the sound. I finally gave up and used a different DVD. It wasn't 'till later I looked and discovered that particular DVD has no Dolby Digital 5.1 sound track! Just DTS and Dolby Surround.
[19:14] #knownspace> sean: my receiver has on optical input but the sat and media play both use that so i had to get a switch.
[19:15] #knownspace> Lensman: Okay, so you're using your media player for part of what I want a new receiver for.
[19:16] #knownspace> sean: which is?
[19:17] #knownspace> Lensman: Converting video signals to HDMI.
[19:18] #knownspace> Lensman: Right now I have to route the laserdisc video thru an RF modulator. Bizarrely, the HDTV has a F-pin coaxial input, but no composite input!
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