Chat Log: December 2nd 2006

[11:55] * Now talking in #knownspace

[11:55] * Topic is 'WELCOME to the First Saturday Niven Chat.'

[11:55] * Set by Harry_Redd on Sat Dec 02 04:31:29

[12:12] <Harry_Redd> Hi All! I was just getting the E-Mail out.

[12:17] <Nick_Danger> Hi guys.

[12:17] <Harry_Redd> Hi All! I was just getting the E-Mail out.

[12:18] <Nick_Danger> i was just laying tiles. serious back malfunction now

[12:18] <Nick_Danger> cant....move....

[12:18] <Nick_Danger> i must be getting old... but not as old as frank!

[12:18] <Harry_Redd> I know the feeling. Been moving.

[12:21] <Harry_Redd> One thing aboit being here... The DIalup is 2X faster than the one I last had. And now, I've got Earthlink Accell working too!

[12:21] <Django> hey guys

[12:22] <Nick_Danger> nice! You need broadband. . .

[12:22] <Nick_Danger> or to steal your neighbors wireless or something.

[12:23] <Harry_Redd> Broadband is coming... The Fish wants her Tech to install it.

[12:23] <Harry_Redd>

[12:24] <Nick_Danger> nice picture

[12:25] <Harry_Redd> What gets me is, there is no farmland.

[12:25] <Nick_Danger> maybe it is further round...

[12:26] <Django> it could all be hydroponic

[12:26] <Harry_Redd> Since it's a Habitat, I suspect you'd have more green between buildings.

[12:28] <Harry_Redd> The Beam Piper description of ContraGrav cities runs along the lines of Huge SPire Buildings with forrests and grasslands between them.

[12:29] <Nick_Danger> off to get chinese food. be back in a few ...

[12:31] * Django has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)

[12:33] <Harry_Redd> Awwww.

[12:34] * Lensman has joined #knownspace

[12:35] <SeanS> hmmm, let me check and make sure that the connection limit hasnt somehow reset itself... just in case ;)

[12:36] <Lensman> Hey, fen are here already!

[12:36] <Harry_Redd> Hi Lens, Sean.

[12:36] <Lensman> Hi all!

[12:37] <Lensman> Hey, how do I get a copy of the log for last month's chat? Sorry I had to miss it.

[12:37] <SeanS> you ask me for it, and i check the log file

[12:38] <SeanS> let me see if i have it

[12:38] <Lensman> Ok: Sean, would you *please* send me a copy of the log?

[12:39] <Lensman> I don't understand the whole sign-in thing at the list archives. I think it sez the admin sends you a copy of your current password each month? I've never received any automated message telling me what my password is, AFAIK.

[12:39] <SeanS> hmm, dont have that log. looks like i rebuilt this pc about that time and the log is gone

[12:39] <SeanS> sorry

[12:40] <SeanS> unless........

[12:41] <Lensman> What form does it come in? Would it do any good to ask on the list if someone else had a copy they could e-mail to me?

[12:44] <SeanS> I have it

[12:44] <SeanS> I can send it as a straight text file or compress it.

[12:45] <SeanS> uncompressed, it is 112K in size

[12:46] <Lensman> I don't care, with broadband it doesn't matter. I presume compressed = .zip? Whichever is more convenient for you.

[12:46] <SeanS> doesnt make any difference to me

[12:47] <SeanS> whats the email addy?

[12:47] <Lensman> pls send it to

[12:47] <SeanS> on the way

[12:48] <Lensman> Thanks muchly Sean!

[12:48] <SeanS> looks like i redid this pc the sunday after the chat and i havent messed with the old drive yet so it was still there

[12:49] <SeanS> need to send it off to mark so he can put it on the web site

[13:09] * Tanada has joined #knownspace

[13:10] <Lensman> Hi Tanada!

[13:10] <Harry_Redd> Hi Tanda!

[13:10] <Tanada> Hi Lens, just checking my connection ;)

[13:10] <Lensman> You tease!

[13:10] <Tanada> Hi Frank, glad you and Leslie are getting along...perhaps a sequel is in the making?

[13:11] <Tanada> Well Lens, my wife hasn't left for the grocery store yet ;)

[13:14] <Harry_Redd> Maybe

[13:15] <Lensman> I had to re-install mIRC as I recently had to set up my 'puter from scratch, Windoz was getting too twitchy. Does anyone know why my new install of mIRC doesn't have the sunflower "configure" icon?

[13:15] <Tanada> Anyone else here addicted to Jericho?

[13:15] <Lensman> I spoze it's not that important as the only thing I use mIRC for is this chat, but "Tis a puzzlement!"

[13:15] <Harry_Redd> I think they left it out to save space. ;-)

[13:15] <Lensman> :)

[13:15] <Tanada> Frank, I still love Janesfort War, it is just so cool knowing you

[13:16] <Lensman> Is Jerico a TV show?

[13:16] <SeanS> the sunflower is still there

[13:16] <SeanS> it is used to switch between the server list and the connection dialog

[13:17] <Tanada> Yes Jericho on CBS Wednesday nights, you can see the whole thing webcast at

[13:18] <Lensman> I need to hook my stereo back up to my 'puter so I can watch the last episode of "Desperate Housewives" online. Not much point of watching if you don't have sound...

[13:18] <Tanada> Jericho, not a doctor/lawyer/police/sitcom/reallity show

[13:19] <Tanada> Lens, you mean you watch it for something besides eye candy?

[13:21] <Harry_Redd> BRB. I need food!

[13:21] <Lensman> Mmmm... Teri Hatcher is certainly eye candy, alright! Don't find myself attracted to most of the other women on the show.

[13:22] <Lensman> Oh! How could I forget, the hispanic ex-model is a hottie too!

[13:22] * Tanada has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)

[13:22] <SeanS> I have a high speed connection and an unlimited giganews account. I dont bother with such mundane shows as desperate housewives

[13:23] <Lensman> Ok, you win the geekier-than-thou contest. ;-)

[13:23] <SeanS> hehe, about the only contest i would actually try to win

[13:24] <Lensman> Usually when watching the tube I watch the TV beside my 'puter anyway, It's only for special shows like Battlestar Galactic where I descend to the basement an crank up the home theatre system.

[13:25] <SeanS> this pc sits on the coffee table in front of my home theater system

[13:25] <SeanS> in fact, I route video off this pc to the tv

[13:26] <SeanS> if i had a 5.1 channel sound card, i wouldnt need the dvd player

[13:28] <Lensman> I do a home theatre setup for the video room at ConQuesT, KaCSFFS' annual convention. One year the guy who ran it brought his tower 'puter with a really kickass 5.1 sound card. My system sounded even better that way than with my old $600 Sony DVD player!

[13:29] <SeanS> if that works. my dcc is notorious since i am behind the same firewall as the irc server

[13:30] <Lensman> I think he said it was a $200 sound card, so I think it was bleeding edge.

[13:31] <Lensman> Sean: Why did I just get an attempt to send me a file thru mIRC?

[13:31] <SeanS> because i attempted to send you a file thu mirc

[13:31] <SeanS> i can rarely send stuff out of here dcc tho

[13:32] <Lensman> What, the chat log? I'm already reading the e-mail copy you sent me. Thanks again!

[13:32] <SeanS> nah, was a pic of the pc sitting in front of the tv

[13:35] <Lensman> Oh, okay. I'm rather leery of accepting files with no advance warning. I haven't had a lot of problem with viruses on my 'puter, but that's because I'm careful!

[13:35] <SeanS> i wouldnt do that to anyone

[13:35] <SeanS> except maybe my sister

[13:36] <Lensman> My sister got teed off at me the other day when she wanted to show some photos on a CD to our relatives who were here visiting, but I wouldn't let her use my 'puter for that. But I was able to show them on my home theatre system so it all worked out.

[13:38] <Lensman> The other 'puter here she's used for e-mail, and I think some photos she's sent and were downloaded on that is why it's currently a rather expensive doorstop instead of a working 'puter. Our techie friend is puzzled about how a 'puter can be so messed up it won't even go into the BIOS. When the power switch is turned on, it immediately turns itself off again.

[13:39] <SeanS> sounds like bios is screwed. unplug it, pull the battery off the motherboard for an hour or so, then hook it all back up

[13:41] <Lensman> I'll tell her you advised that. I don't mess around with 'puter innards myself.

[13:41] <SeanS> just a thought but if the bios is corrupted, that might help

[13:44] <Lensman> She thinks it may be a power supply problem. I don't, as this immediately followed some problems like the mouse malfunctioning and the keyboard signal being lost. I know there was some sort of virus/ worm/ whatever on the system 'cuz I got a message from Zone Alarm that some sort of program or other was trying to access the Internet, and the name of the program was misspelled! So I surfed the 'net looking for info on that, and the first thing that p

[13:45] * FrGeek has joined #knownspace

[13:45] <SeanS> could be a power supply problem

[13:45] <SeanS> hi geek

[13:46] <FrGeek> Hey

[13:46] <Harry_Redd> PHIL! g*r*e*a*t TO SEE YOU!

[13:46] <FrGeek> same here

[13:47] <Lensman> Would a power supply problem cause deterioration of mouse functionality, followed by complete loss of mouse function, followed by loss of keyboard input?

[13:47] <SeanS> no

[13:47] <SeanS> unless low voltage conditions were affecting the motherboard

[13:48] <FrGeek> Are they USB?

[13:48] <Lensman> Welcome FrGeek! So real name = Phil? Pardon me while I add that to my chatroom score card...

[13:49] <SeanS> you could be fighting 2 problems but since i dont have the machine sitting here. I will stop attempting to diagnose

[13:49] <FrGeek> Yah. I use dto go By by PhilG. but then phil H. came- you know liek too many daves...

[13:50] <SeanS> thats why I am SeanS. there was a Sean Pratts <sp> on the list at the time going by Sean. after a couple of posts, he switched to SeanP

[13:51] <Harry_Redd> Interesting article:

[13:51] <Lensman> Yah well when people start calling each other by real names here it generally throws me as I'm very bad at remembering names. Hence the score card for myself.

[13:52] <Lensman> Harry Redd = Frank Gasperik? And did I spell that last name right?

[13:52] <SeanS> you did

[13:53] <Lensman> Well, that's one anyway... ;-)

[13:53] <SeanS> if he is browsing enough to start posting links, he will be away from chat for a bit

[13:56] <FrGeek> Ah the wonders of the internet perfect for people like me withthe attention span rivaled only by certain species of gnats.

[13:56] <SeanS> anybody play with vista yet?

[13:57] <Lensman> Who is Vista when he's at home?

[13:57] <SeanS> windows vista

[13:57] <Lensman> Is that the new version, post XP?

[13:57] <SeanS> yes. i have it but havent installed it on anything yet

[13:58] <SeanS> kind of dont want to... would rather go back to full time linux

[13:59] <Lensman> I'm still running Windoz98 here, and having problems with refusing to update. A lot of programs I can't use the newest version. ZoneAlarm being one.

[13:59] <SeanS> i am behind a router so i dont use a software firewall

[14:00] <Lensman> I wish Linux would come out with a good Windoz emulator so I could get off the Windoz upgrade treadmill. But I refuse to give up my Windoz games!

[14:00] <SeanS> never heard of vmware workstation?

[14:01] <FrGeek> I tried Linux but as you said games and a lot progams are windows only.,

[14:01] <Harry_Redd> Yupper Lens.

[14:01] <Lensman> I am behind a router too. No doubt that stops some intrusions but not all. I've seen several cases where either Morton Anti-Virus or ZoneAlarm blocked a worm intrusion.

[14:01] <SeanS> with vmware, you set up a virtual machine and install a windows version under linux. everything works

[14:02] <SeanS> never had a problem here

[14:02] <FrGeek> But its a bit slower isn't it? IIRC its not free either

[14:02] <SeanS> vmware player is free and disk speed is compromised somewhat yes

[14:02] <Lensman> Sean: No doubt you know how to configure your router better than our compute techie. Or maybe you just have a better router.

[14:05] <FrGeek> Speaking of free software I assume everyone here has clestia?

[14:05] <FrGeek> Celestia

[14:05] <SeanS> i dont actually

[14:05] <Lensman> You assume incorrectly.

[14:06] <Lensman> So give us the pitch. What does it do and why are our lives incomplete w/o it?

[14:07] <FrGeek> I am dissapiont in all of you. Very, very dissapionted ;) you can get it at Its a great space and astostonomy simulator

[14:07] <FrGeek> Soem geeks even have patche sto add systems and ships from 2001, b5 and whatnot from it

[14:08] <SeanS> I have heard of it

[14:09] <Lensman> So it's a planetarium on your PC, is that it?

[14:10] <FrGeek> Yah, kind of.

[14:13] <Harry_Redd> heay Sean! Check this out!

[14:13] <Harry_Redd> BTW, I'm trying to restore some bookmarks. Having twice tyhe speed of the other location sure helps!

[14:14] <SeanS> har har

[14:16] <Harry_Redd> This looks like a WaLT doURGHTY pROJECT!

[14:18] <Harry_Redd>

[14:21] <Harry_Redd>

[14:21] <Harry_Redd> Enough of that. :-0

[14:23] <SeanS> good ;) 28 minutes to go

[14:24] <SeanS> 38 that is

[14:24] <Harry_Redd> Oh My GHOD! *LOL*

[14:26] <Lensman> LOL! The casting director from Hell...

[14:29] <Harry_Redd> Not quite Lens. there's not enough "Ethnic Diversity" in the cast. How about J-Lo?

[14:33] <FrGeek> Latina elves? Anything like black vulcans?

[14:34] <SeanS> just another example of IDIC

[14:36] <Harry_Redd> Yeah, but Hollywood would do it just to show how Non Racist they are.

[14:45] <Lensman> It's not surprising that the Nordic and Olde English legends Tolkien based his myth cycle on don't have protagonist roles for non-Caucasians. I don't see that as racist or even discriminatory, but others may see it differently.

[14:46] <Lensman> "Others" including the guy who claimed the scene in one of the LOTR movies where an orc or Uruk-Hai is spawned out of a mud bath being a reference to the racist term "mud people".

[14:47] <Harry_Redd> IT'S AN insult to ISLAM!!!

[14:47] <Harry_Redd> Bjorn of the earth Lensman

[14:49] <FrGeek> SOm epeopel make a carrer out of being insulted

[14:49] <SeanS> yep

[14:50] <SeanS> the one pretty local here is the irreverand Lewis Coleman

[14:50] * Tanada has joined #knownspace

[14:51] <SeanS> hi tanada

[14:51] <FrGeek> Hi Tanada

[14:51] <Tanada> Hey Ya'All

[14:52] <Harry_Redd> Hi Tanada

[14:52] * Matt_Damon has joined #knownspace

[14:52] * Matt_Damon changes topic to 'Matt Damon is a musical genius!'

[14:52] <Harry_Redd> Hi Matt

[14:52] <SeanS> hehe

[14:52] <Tanada> Whats the hot topic?

[14:52] * Harry_Redd changes topic to 'WELCOME to the First Saturday Niven Chat.'

[14:53] <Harry_Redd>

[14:53] <SeanS> nothing yet, tanada

[14:53] <Harry_Redd> We were discussing this for a bit. *LOL*

[14:53] <Tanada> Anyone interested in the prospects of time travelers going back before Toba to get genetic samples from before the Sapiens bottleneck?

[14:53] <Lensman> Topic is "Waiting for Gadot... er, Larry" ;-)

[14:54] <Nick_Danger> lensman - they made us read that in high school... that is what working for Ross Perot's old company is like...

[14:54] <Tanada> LOL @ Lens

[14:55] <Lensman> I'm guessing you mean the genetic diversity bottleneck theorized based on mitochondrial DNA dating? But what's Toba?

[14:55] <Tanada> Toba was the supervolcano explosion that is suspected of causing the bottleneck

[14:55] <Lensman> Actually I've never seen nor read "Waiting". A description made it sound terribly avante garde and terribly dull.

[14:57] <Nick_Danger> I think seeing it would be a bad thing... unless you really wanted to sleep well...

[14:57] * Nick_Danger walks out of the fog, and into the smog.

[14:58] <Lensman> As I was watching a documentary on the theoretical bottleneck (It's GREAT finally having the Science channel!) it occurred to me that geneticists may be asking the wrong question. I frankly doubt mitochondrial DNA mutations occur like "clockwork". I think the question they *should* be asking is: What mechanism would reduce mitochondrial diversity?

[14:58] <Matt_Damon> As I that's a shot or have any questions?

[14:59] <Lensman> Matt: ??

[14:59] <SeanS> relentlessly, ruthlessly... (I wonder where ruth is)

[14:59] <Matt_Damon> relentlessly, ruthlessly... 802.11g.

[15:00] <Nick_Danger> I have to go take these kids to see "flushed away"... be back in a couple hours

[15:00] <FrGeek> It liek oneof those movies that holloywood peopel make so they coudl good about themselves.

[15:00] * Nick_Danger would love to see an adult movie for once...

[15:00] <FrGeek> It liek oneof those movies that holloywood peopel make so they coudl good about themselves.

[15:00] <Matt_Damon> It liek make my goats screaming for that still morning...

[15:01] <Tanada> Well there could be a virus that specifically targeted Mitochondria and wiped out those branches susceptible to the virus....

[15:02] <FrGeek> Or maybe they died out in a 'wrinkle in time"

[15:02] <Matt_Damon> Foo needs to me and then say is the code at a spongy ooze of me: one of class against class is a frontal lobotomy.

[15:02] <SeanS> ok, thats enough of that right at the start of the official chat

[15:03] * Matt_Damon was kicked by SeanS (bring the bot back some other time, Nick)

[15:03] <Tanada> I loved a Wrinkle in Time, but A Swiftly Tilting Planet was better

[15:03] <Nick_Danger> hehe.

[15:04] <Nick_Danger> i think matt takes too much acid

[15:04] <SeanS> change the name to daemon so people have an idea and we dont get sued ;)

[15:04] <Nick_Danger> awww... he can't sue, he's a celery.

[15:05] <Nick_Danger> i mean a celebrity. i was watching team america while I wrote it.

[15:05] <SeanS> i wont argue that too much

[15:05] <Nick_Danger> MATT DAMON!

[15:05] <Nick_Danger> be back

[15:07] <Harry_Redd> The accepted theory for Cro-Mag and Nethanerthals is that they interbred to produce Modern Man. The same thing could have happened much earlier.

[15:08] <Lensman> "Team America" is, I guess, a sign I'm getting old. I went to see it 'cuz I'm a "Thunderbirds" fan and I heard it was a parody of that. It was one of the most disgusting movies it's ever been my displeasure to see, and I loathe and dispise it. But when I was walking out of the theatre, I heard several of the young adults exclaim enthusiastically about what a great movie that was!

[15:09] <Lensman> I'd say "accepted theory" is an overstatement. There is a lot of arguments about whether or not cro-mag and Neanderthal interbred, or even whether they *could* interbreed.

[15:10] <FrGeek> yah but at some piont there must have been interbreeding possible

[15:10] <Lensman> Personally I find the idea absurd that Neanderthal interbred so much with Cro-Magnon that it was simply absorbed into the population. In fact I think very recently they've proven the genetic difference was such that this is impossible.

[15:11] <Lensman> Sure there was a common ancestor. But I think recently they've discovered Neanderthal DNA is about 4 times as diverse from Homo Sapiens as previously thought.

[15:12] <Lensman> The Descent of Man is a very hot area for research, because we now know of a lot of hominids, but are unsure of just how they're related, or who is descended from whom.

[15:12] <Harry_Redd> Yeah, well nobody knows what Ally Oop did with the upstairs maid 60,000 years ago Lens.

[15:12] <FrGeek> Reminds me of the Gieco "caveman" commercials

[15:12] <Lensman> Of course as WE know, we're descended from the Pak.

[15:13] <Tanada> lol

[15:13] <Lensman> I'm enjoying those commercial. Most of Geico's commercials are enjoyable-- at least the first dozen times or so.

[15:14] <Tanada> At least they have a bit of an imagination

[15:15] <SeanS> thats what i tell people when they ask what i believe. They try to get me into a religious argument and I say "I believe we are descended from a race called the Pak who originated 33000 lightyears toward the center of the galaxy" really throws the old ladies from buck run baptist church for a loop

[15:15] <Lensman> LOL! Well it's more believable than the Scientologist creation myth.

[15:16] <SeanS> i have never read dianetics and really dont want to

[15:16] * FlyingDragon has joined #knownspace

[15:16] <SeanS> hi carol

[15:16] <Lensman> Welcome Carol!

[15:16] <FlyingDragon> Hello!

[15:16] <Harry_Redd> HI Carol!

[15:16] <FlyingDragon> Hello, sean, Crazy, Father, Harry, Lensman. Nick. Tanada and Uber.

[15:17] <FrGeek> Hi Carol

[15:17] <FlyingDragon> My cable was down over night, so I wasn't logging this morning as I would have been.

[15:17] <Lensman> Is the Theta/ Xenu thing from Dianetics? I thought that was just from Scientology.

[15:17] <SeanS> i have it from before noon on

[15:17] <FlyingDragon> It is HORRIBLE to be suddenly YANKED from cyberspace, unwillingly!!!!

[15:18] <FrGeek> I love it when fundamentalists say "Evolution is impossible" to which I reply "So your saying God is incapable ot it?"

[15:18] <FlyingDragon> LOL

[15:19] <SeanS> thats a good one phil

[15:19] <Lensman> What is that wonderful Charles Aadams cartoon? "Chester Fortesque was suddenly spit out of the universe like a watermelon seed." Or somesuch.

[15:19] <Lensman> FrGeek: WOW what a great comback! I'll have to remember that.

[15:19] <FlyingDragon> How sad for FOrtesque!

[15:21] <FlyingDragon> I've never heard a fundie say that evolution was impossible. Just that it isn't what it wasy in the bible. How can there be 24 hour days before there was a sun? Also, defining a day as a 24 hour earth day is rather saying that god is only a god of THIS planet.

[15:21] <Lensman> Yah the fundie's God is a MUCH smaller God than mine. There

[15:22] <Lensman> There's is just a God of one planet, plus some lights in the sky. Mine is the Creator of uncountable galaxies.

[15:22] <Lensman> Jeez! "Theirs"

[15:22] <FlyingDragon> You need more coffee!!!!

[15:22] <Lensman> I guess I didn't get enuff sleep last nite.

[15:23] <Lensman> Carol, you said it.

[15:24] <Lensman> I had a tiring day yesterday. Our church is doing their annual Kristkindl Markt. It's a combo German festival and Xmas craft fair. LOOOOVE that German potato salad and brats! Yum! But was on my feet quite a lot yesterday, what with running around helping out.

[15:24] * Tanada has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)

[15:25] <Lensman> I realized how much I'd run around yesterday when climing the stairs this morning. My leg muscles were complaining.

[15:25] <FrGeek> Ohh nothing says Christmas like sausage! no wait thats Hogfather's day...

[15:25] <SeanS> hehe

[15:25] <FlyingDragon> HAd master's club this morning, and my back started hurting. Still hurts. I think I'll take a soak in the spa tonight....

[15:26] <FlyingDragon> Hogfather's day?

[15:26] <SeanS> from diskworld

[15:26] <FlyingDragon> AH. I son't read enough diskworld.

[15:27] <SeanS> i think the big celebration is hogfather's eve

[15:27] <Lensman> Discworld: For those who find that Xanth isn't redundant enuff. <Lensman ducks>

[15:27] <SeanS> never got into xanth. tho i did meet piers once

[15:28] <Lensman> I read several Xanth novels. The first, _A Spell for Chameleon_, is wonderful. The third, _Castle Roogna_ is pretty good too. But after the first few they settle down into formula.

[15:29] <FlyingDragon> Too muchXanth is hard to take. Tehre comes a point when one becomes immune to puns, and the books become pointless.

[15:29] <Lensman> Carol has put her finger on it exactly.

[15:29] <FrGeek> No nearly as redunadnt as Jordan's wheel of time. Those are hours of my life I will never get back

[15:29] <SeanS> i was working at the waldenbooks in ocala about 20-30 miles from his house and he showed up one day.

[15:29] <SeanS> long time ago

[15:30] <FlyingDragon> Sean, wow.

[15:30] <Lensman> Anyway, I haven't read much Discworld but from what I have read, it seems like one book is indistinguishable from the next. I can't even remember which ones I've read.

[15:30] <FrGeek> True, someimes I just read them for the footnotes

[15:30] <Lensman> Just my opinion, of course-- Discworld is quit popular.

[15:31] <Lensman> My apologies in advance for my next several typos.

[15:31] <SeanS> with discworld, my favorites are the first 3 and reaper man

[15:32] <SeanS> and mort if that is not in the first 3

[15:32] <SeanS> watching the army navy game, frank

[15:34] <Harry_Redd> I happen to like the VIMES series. Good mysteries with much to say.

[15:34] <Harry_Redd> Who's ahead Sean?

[15:34] <SeanS> tied at 7 with 3:30 left in the half. army just called time out

[15:35] <Harry_Redd> Sounds like a good game.

[15:35] <Lensman> Is Vimes by Pratchett (sp?) ?

[15:36] <SeanS> yes

[15:36] <SeanS> vimes is head of the ank morpork watch

[15:36] <Lensman> Sorry I missed last month's chat. "<Harry_Redd> Err Earghsplitten Loudenboomers!" LOL!

[15:37] <FrGeek> I think I missed it too.

[15:37] <SeanS> i have the log available. lensman got me to dig it out.

[15:37] <SeanS> i will send it to the webmeisters and it will be posted to soon

[15:38] <Harry_Redd> Earghsplitten Loudenboomers Alla isdt Kaput!

[15:38] <FrGeek> "Fritz! They shot Fritz!"

[15:38] <Harry_Redd> Earghsplitten Loudenboomers Alla isdt Kaput = Thermonuke

[15:39] <Lensman> FrGeek: These kids these days, they don't even know who Fritz is!

[15:39] <Harry_Redd> You guys missed a good chat.

[15:39] <SeanS> i have it fully logged

[15:39] <FlyingDragon> I"d rather have a good chat than talk about a good chat.

[15:39] <FrGeek> Sigh, I am afraid your right, so much for the classics...

[15:40] * NickE has joined #knownspace

[15:40] <FlyingDragon> Frank, ever hear of Ferdinand Beyer?

[15:41] <FlyingDragon> ANyone feel free to answer!

[15:41] <NickE> howdydoodllydoo

[15:41] <FlyingDragon> howdydodeedo!

[15:42] <SeanS> wb, nick

[15:42] <NickE> hi Carol, Frank, Sean Phil. t'other Nick Lens Uber

[15:42] <NickE> I only jus came in :-)

[15:42] <FlyingDragon> I"ve started givieng Keegan PIano lessons, and his instructor gave him hoework of googling Ferdinand Beyer, and we are having a hard time finding anything about him.

[15:43] <NickE> Lost on me

[15:43] <SeanS> i can get the radio to play and that is about the best of my musical ability

[15:43] <NickE> :-)

[15:44] <SeanS> i can get the pc to play the dr who theme by orbital

[15:44] <Lensman> Whatever you say Nick, but your nick looks suspiciously like another Nick's nick. Perhaps you nicked his?

[15:45] <NickE> Nope. me here first...except not it were

[15:45] * Fred_ScreamsAndLeaps has joined #knownspace

[15:45] <NickE> Hey Fred

[15:45] <FlyingDragon> hello

[15:45] <SeanS> hi fred

[15:45] <Fred_ScreamsAndLeaps> greetins fellow sentients

[15:45] <Lensman> Contrary to popular belief, not all knowledge is contained in the Internet.

[15:46] <NickE> not so sure about the sentience here

[15:46] <Fred_ScreamsAndLeaps> you found that out online, didn't you?

[15:46] <Harry_Redd> Hi Nick.

[15:46] <SeanS> lol

[15:46] <NickE> from my end anyway

[15:46] <FlyingDragon> Yes, Lensman. There are HUGE holes in what is available on the internet.

[15:46] <NickE> Hi Frank, good to "see" you

[15:46] <Fred_ScreamsAndLeaps> Hey Frank

[15:46] <Harry_Redd> Hi FredScream

[15:46] <Fred_ScreamsAndLeaps> Hi Carol

[15:47] <SeanS> lens, nick danger is mark firestone

[15:47] <Lensman> Yah, the Matt Damon daemon here earlier was a pretty good demonstration of non-sentience. Or was that nonsense?

[15:47] <Harry_Redd> Yeah, It's good to be back.

[15:47] * Fred_ScreamsAndLeaps is now known as F_RED

[15:47] <NickE> I knew that (kinda :-)

[15:47] <FrGeek> Of course the internet is not the fountain of all knowelege. You can't expect me to be on-line ALL the time! ;)

[15:47] <F_RED> lol

[15:47] <Lensman> "It's good to be back" Ah, another Heinlein fan. ;-)

[15:48] <FlyingDragon> Father, have YOU ever heard of Ferdinand Beyer?

[15:48] <FrGeek> Nope

[15:48] <Lensman> I took piano lessons many, many years ago, and I confess the name didn't ring a bell with me.

[15:49] <FlyingDragon> Harry, which character ARE you in BURNING TOWER?

[15:49] <NickE> <apologies for any incoherence: birthday drinks for a pal all afternoon....much Guiness quaffed>

[15:50] <SeanS> good for you nick

[15:50] <NickE> feels :-)

[15:50] <SeanS> 7 to 7 going into halftime, frank

[15:51] <NickE> Good aftenoon/evening in fact, proper pub, beer and chat

[15:51] <Harry_Redd> I'm one of the characters in the first paragraqph. and they use my name, but scrambled. ;-)

[15:51] <F_RED> How come Carol's boldface keeps cutting out partway in?

[15:51] <SeanS> looking forward to dr who on christmas, nick

[15:51] <Harry_Redd> Thanks Sean.

[15:52] <NickE> WHat dya mean which character!!! Lord Reggy thing

[15:52] <NickE> Ho Yuss. Should be good

[15:52] <FlyingDragon> Something wrong w my program. It won't turn off bold face.

[15:52] <Lensman> Calm down Fred-- you're getting red in the typface!

[15:52] <NickE> Regaspik thats the one

[15:52] <NickE> or summfin

[15:53] <FlyingDragon> F_RED wants to be in the red group with HarryRedd and Reflame

[15:53] <FlyingDragon> Redflame, I mean.

[15:53] <F_RED> and you keep dragon me down

[15:53] <NickE> <groan>

[15:53] <FlyingDragon> lol

[15:53] <F_RED> hey, who put up that link to the picture of THUNDERBIRD TWO down under?

[15:53] <Harry_Redd> It's a hard group to get into Fred. ;-)

[15:54] <NickE> That was Euan. Very cool

[15:54] <F_RED> Yah, I posted it to my Supercar group, and they want more information!

[15:54] <Lensman> Yes, kewl indeed!

[15:56] <F_RED> So the Christmas gift buying here has officially begun . . .

[15:56] <Lensman> So did you ever find out anything more about the model?

[15:56] <FlyingDragon> I'm almost finished shopping!

[15:57] <F_RED> ack

[15:57] <Lensman> I was actually using a T-bird 2 as an avatar on the War of the Worlds Online forum for awhile.

[15:57] <F_RED> you, I hate

[15:57] <SeanS> i start shopping on the 26th when the real deals show up

[15:57] <NickE> done all mine

[15:57] <F_RED> I have a friend that drags her family out on the 26th

[15:57] <F_RED> stands in line all day

[15:57] <F_RED> to buy half price gift wrap for next year

[15:58] <FlyingDragon> Yes, good deals are fun. THere are a lot of those to be had on "Black Friday."

[15:58] <Lensman> And she thinks it takes her entire family to do this because--?

[15:58] <NickE> brb

[15:58] <Harry_Redd> Littel red Riding Hoodlem was doing her Christmas shopping earl... One warm night in July.

[15:58] <F_RED> Standing in line for 8 hours to save money on wrapping paper Carol?

[15:58] <FlyingDragon> ON the 26th?

[15:58] <F_RED> I wouldn't do that if the damn stuff was filled

[15:59] <FlyingDragon> Or the day after THanksgiving?

[15:59] <F_RED> no, day after Xmas

[15:59] * Dan has joined #knownspace

[15:59] <SeanS> 26th of december

[15:59] <SeanS> hi dan

[15:59] <F_RED> Hi Dan

[15:59] <Dan> Hiya Sean. Hiya everyone!

[15:59] <Harry_Redd> I shop AFTER christmas and gift on Jan 5... 12th night! ;-)

[15:59] <FrGeek> It would be eaier and cheaper to use newpaper.

[15:59] <FlyingDragon> I've never seen long lines like that. But standing in long lines isn't my thing. MEn are goog for that. REad a book, save a place in line.

[15:59] <Harry_Redd> Hi Dan.

[15:59] <FlyingDragon> Hello, dan

[16:00] <F_RED> I assume she stands in multiple lines

[16:00] <F_RED> I always refuse to go

[16:00] <F_RED> but it's an all day affair

[16:00] <Lensman> The day after Xmas is one of stores' busiest days, but only beause people are returning gifts to stores. I avoid that day at stores like the plague.

[16:00] <SeanS> i sit here and watch football on black friday

[16:00] <Lensman> Perhaps there are deals to be had, but I'm not that dedicated a shopper.

[16:00] <FlyingDragon> I never sit and watch football.

[16:00] <FrGeek> Not me, I stood enough in enoug lines in the miliatry thank you. But then I don't have to worry abot my wife telling me to take her place in line

[16:01] <Harry_Redd> *LOL* Phil!

[16:01] <FlyingDragon> Frgeek, I suppoe you aren't really into the aquisition thing either.

[16:02] * growler has joined #knownspace

[16:02] <SeanS> hi euan

[16:02] <F_RED> aha!

[16:02] <Dan> Ahhh, my Domestic Goddess has made coffee for me. BRB.

[16:02] <F_RED> We were just talking about Thunderbird Two

[16:02] <Harry_Redd> Hi Euan!

[16:02] <FrGeek> Not it I have to wait in line!

[16:02] <growler> hi

[16:02] <Harry_Redd> *Lovevly!*

[16:02] <Lensman> Drill sgt to recruit: "I suppose when I die you'll come to my funeral so you can piss on my grave!" Recruit: "Oh no, sarge, I swore that after I get out of the military I'll never stand in line again!"

[16:03] <FrGeek> LOL

[16:03] <Lensman> Shop online. No lines, no taxes, in some cases no shipping charges either!

[16:04] <F_RED> yeah

[16:04] <SeanS> i agree

[16:04] <Lensman> Who'd be crazy enuff to stand in line to save a few bucks on wrapping paper?

[16:04] <F_RED> Circuit City just dropped their delivery and shipping charges

[16:04] <FrGeek> Carol you sked about ferdinand Beyer? for a little infor go to

[16:04] <F_RED> (Mom's getting a new TV for Xmas)

[16:04] <Dan> Back... Yeah, I plan to do most of my holiday shopping online.

[16:04] <F_RED> Most of mine will be done at Amazon

[16:06] <FlyingDragon> Thank you Father. That isa lot more information than we had before!

[16:06] <FrGeek> No problem I love a challenge!

[16:07] <NickE> back. Hey Dan & Euan

[16:07] <SeanS> darn helpful this irc server from time to time ;)

[16:08] <FlyingDragon> I just did some of mine at Amazon. I"ll admit that it is easier to look for specific things one line, ahrder to browse, though. Keegs wanted a YELLOW rain slicker and umbrella. No one has anything like that, but I found the slicker on Amazon, and the umbrella on Ebay.

[16:08] <Dan> My Dad is so hard to shop for. What do you buy for a guy in his mid 60s who already owns more tools and toys that the proverbial stick can be shaken at?

[16:09] <Lensman> That's a good point, Carol, it's a lot harder to shop online if you want to browse what's available, or you're not sure of the exact name or description of what you're looking for.

[16:09] <SeanS> you tell me, dan, i have the same or more so of the problem

[16:09] <FrGeek> Maybe soemthing that breaks down a lot so he could use his tools?

[16:09] <Harry_Redd> Boxes fior them Dan>

[16:09] <SeanS> what to get a guy that has 2 or possibly 4 of everything that he wants

[16:09] <Dan> Sportsman's Guide has a great wool overcoat for $14.

[16:09] <NickE> had to make me own cuppa tea.. (can't complain, she dropped me off and picked me up from the station and had ordered a Chinese takeout to pick up on the way home!)

[16:10] <NickE> <still catching up>

[16:10] <Harry_Redd> Peg and I once gave larry niven a sheve of Brown lunch bags with his name printed on them ;-)

[16:10] <NickE> Cool

[16:10] <F_RED> a sheve?

[16:11] <F_RED> Last year I made a ton of custom stuff on CafePress and gave them to people

[16:11] <Harry_Redd> A bunch of them bound with tape. :-)

[16:11] <NickE> whatever the colective of brown bags is

[16:11] <F_RED> Calendars and shirts and mugs and stuff

[16:11] <Lensman> Things still come in sheaves?

[16:11] <NickE> thats the one

[16:11] <FlyingDragon> designed them yourself?

[16:11] <Lensman> obLOTR: "Pints? Beer comes in *pints*?"

[16:12] <NickE> :-)

[16:12] <Dan> LOL

[16:12] <growler> Amazon makes it very hard for me at times - I often want to just go check what new SF has become availabel in the last month or so and they don't make that easy.

[16:12] <F_RED> and their stock of Larry Niven books is low :(

[16:12] <Harry_Redd> *LOL*

[16:12] <Lensman> check for the new SF releases.

[16:13] <FlyingDragon> REdd, LOL

[16:13] <growler> When you get a list of books and sort it by date they start with titles that won't be published for a year and you have to search through several pages to find where ones currently published tsart.

[16:13] <NickE> <snort>

[16:13] <F_RED> Amazon finally finally FINALLY is putting a little 'prime' logo next to a list of items in a search return

[16:14] <Harry_Redd>

[16:14] <FlyingDragon> Nick Danger, I think you might like this too. Thinking about buying this for Peter:

[16:15] <Lensman> What to get the man who has everything: Unless he's on a restrictive diet, some fancy/ gourmet food mailed to him would probably be appreciated. I used to take orders for Wolferman's Gourmet Foods, and they did most of their business during the holiday season. Jack Stack BBQ also ships their stuff, insulated, with dry ice so it will arrive in good shape. I'm sure there are plenty of other companies doing the same.

[16:15] <F_RED> CafePress is doing their colored shirts now in black, maroon, green, navy

[16:15] <SeanS> foodwise... mom would kill me ;)

[16:15] <SeanS> nice idea tho

[16:15] <Harry_Redd> *LOLOL!*

[16:15] <F_RED> the Nautilus would look good on a navy background

[16:15] <FlyingDragon> There is a Pizza place in Stillwater Oklahoma, Hidaway, which sends their Pizza's frozen on dry ice.

[16:16] <Dan> Lensman, with 4 cooks in the family, the lowest priority my Dad has is "what shall we eat?"

[16:16] <Lensman> Of course giving a gift of food to someone overweight might not be appreciated, but it's often a nice surprise and fondly remembered!

[16:16] <Harry_Redd> Special Coffies and Teas work.

[16:17] <FrGeek> Yo can get Lou Malnati's chichago style pizza delivered frozen as well

[16:17] <F_RED> this just in

[16:17] <F_RED> with apologies to Harry

[16:17] <F_RED> "cat owners are more prone toward schizophrenia"

[16:17] <Lensman> Dan: *Shrug* one size does NOT fit all. Still, something he likes but they don't make at home might be appreciated.

[16:17] <SeanS> yeah but death by my mom's own hand would be a poor substitu for a thankyou card

[16:17] <Dan> Eveh given that, he refuses to explore lots of "non Southern Down-Home" foods.

[16:17] <Harry_Redd> I saw that. Unfortunate. Now the Cat haters have more ammo!

[16:17] <F_RED> "The jury is still out on that in the medical community. But the infectious agent currently thought to be the most likely culprit in leading to schizophrenia is Toxoplasma gondii, a protozoan parasite."

[16:17] <F_RED> "Its definitive host is the cat, which is unaffected by the parasite," Dr. Torrey, co-author of the book "Beasts of the Earth: Animals, Humans, and Disease," writes in Forbes magazine.

[16:18] <FlyingDragon> Fruit cakes from from Collin Street Bakery are a famouse tradition. Many large corporations give them to their employees, including Ringling brothers and Barnum and Bailey CIrcus!

[16:18] <Dan> It took us *ages* just to get him to try pizza.

[16:18] <FrGeek> Is that because peopel who buy cats mar emore likely to be schizophernic or do the the cats make them that way?

[16:18] <FlyingDragon> BRB

[16:18] <F_RED> why would a corporation give fruicakes to their employees?

[16:18] <F_RED> do they WANT them to quit?

[16:18] <SeanS> cheaper than hams or turkey's i guess

[16:18] <FlyingDragon> You have never had THESE wonderful Fruitcakes. I gave one to my martial arts master last year. He loved it.

[16:19] <Lensman> Not all fruitcakes are like those doorstops your grandma made!

[16:19] <FlyingDragon> My fav is the apricot

[16:19] <FrGeek> THTAS why ther eis the missing mass in et huniverse. The dark matter all hidden are fruitcake1

[16:19] <FlyingDragon> brb for real

[16:19] <F_RED> fruitcakes go directly into the garbage can

[16:19] <F_RED> and make a horrible THUD when they hit the bottom

[16:19] <FlyingDragon> I'll not waste my money on YOU!!!!!

[16:20] <F_RED> Hey, it's not I ever bought *you* anything

[16:20] <F_RED> :P

[16:20] <F_RED> :D

[16:21] <Harry_Redd> I improve Fruitcakes by soaking them in Brandy and RUM. ;-) It also makes them cutable.

[16:21] <F_RED> same thing goes for cats

[16:21] <F_RED> plus, the alcohol cures schizophernia

[16:22] <Harry_Redd> *LOL*

[16:23] <Lensman> The correct way to make rum cake:

[16:23] <FrGeek> DO youe mena cats make a thud when you thrwo them in garbage or cats taste better wteh you soak them in rum?

[16:24] <SeanS> i would have to contact the local chinese place

[16:25] <Harry_Redd> LOL!

[16:25] <Lensman> Soak your cat in rum! It will burn much better that way...

[16:25] <Lensman> Lensman will now get flamed by the cat fanciers...

[16:26] <SeanS> but a nasty smell in the fireplace

[16:26] <Harry_Redd>

[16:26] <Harry_Redd> You are talking to a man who is surrounded by CATS!

[16:26] <Lensman> Seriously, I don't hate cats, but I far prefer dogs. They're so much more expressive of their affection.

[16:27] <SeanS> not if me and the lab max show up ;)

[16:27] <SeanS> depends on the cat

[16:27] <Lensman> Maxy (who's in my lap) says "Woof!" in agreement.

[16:27] * SeanS getting out of cat hating mode

[16:28] <SeanS> if max got in my lap i wouldnt be able to move for a couple of days

[16:29] * TreeHugger has joined #knownspace

[16:29] <F_RED> Tree

[16:29] <Dan> Hi, TreeHugger.

[16:29] <SeanS> Hi Tree Hugger

[16:29] <TreeHugger> Made it!

[16:29] <FlyingDragon> Hello....

[16:29] <Lensman> Maxy is only about 24 lbs. He was about 26 and looking rather fat around the neck-- we had to get him a new collar again-- but we put him on a diet. Now he's *very* attentive anytime he smells people food!

[16:29] <TreeHugger> Hi all!

[16:30] <Lensman> Welcome!

[16:30] <FlyingDragon> Couple frineds came over, and I need to let one of htem use my computer for awhile.

[16:30] <Lensman> Bye Carol

[16:30] * FlyingDragon is now known as Flying_away

[16:30] <SeanS> my lab max weighed 105lbs last time i had him on a scale

[16:30] <F_RED> a friend in need . . .

[16:31] <Flying_away> Keegs and he want to play an on-line game together

[16:31] <Lensman> 105 lbs is certainly no lap dog!

[16:31] <SeanS> about 20 lbs over sized for a lab and he has no fat on him

[16:31] <FrGeek> I one visted soemone with the world friendliest rotwieller that thoug he was a lapdog. How could you say no?

[16:31] <SeanS> definately not a lap dob

[16:31] <SeanS> dog

[16:32] <Harry_Redd>

[16:32] <Harry_Redd> Later then Carol.

[16:33] * SeanS sets mode: +o Dan

[16:33] * SeanS sets mode: +o growler

[16:33] * SeanS sets mode: +o NickE

[16:34] <SeanS> really no reason for it, but what the hell

[16:34] <Dan> Here's one for you, Frank:

[16:35] <Lensman> #Knownspace has a new pecking order. All hail to our new masters! :P

[16:35] <Dan> L. Neil Smits has a couple of novels being done as Graphic Novels there.

[16:35] <SeanS> there has been only one time it has been necessary that i have seen and that was on chatnet

[16:35] <Dan> L Neil Smith, rather.

[16:36] <Lensman> That's okay, we can read typo.

[16:36] <Harry_Redd>

[16:36] <Lensman> ObAirplane!: "I speak jive!"

[16:36] <Dan> Thanks, Sean.

[16:37] <SeanS> my gf, is coming over shortly so i may be afk

[16:37] <Dan> Not a problem. I have to leave for work myself, in about 90 minutes.

[16:37] <Lensman> Wow, so many straight lines there...

[16:38] <F_RED> Neil Smits? Any relation to Jimmy?

[16:38] <Lensman> His swashbuckling crabs speak with Spanish accents?

[16:41] <TreeHugger> Quiet today. Anybody read any good books lately?

[16:41] <TreeHugger> I just finished Baxter's Titan.

Session Start: Sat Dec 02 17:00:34 2006

Session Ident: #knownspace

[17:00] * Now talking in #knownspace

[17:00] * Topic is 'WELCOME to the First Saturday Niven Chat.'

[17:00] * Set by Harry_Redd on Sat Dec 02 14:52:18

[17:00] <F_RED> same friend that got me to read Niven

[17:00] <Dan> RE, SeanS

[17:00] <SeanS> frickin windows

[17:00] <TreeHugger> Typical of many film-makers.

[17:00] <Dan> LOL

[17:01] <Lensman> Well they did use the Lens, but the story seems to have been lifted from golden age Green Lantern. Alien crashes on Earth, and mortally wounded hands his lens over to a kid who finds him. Clearly this lens doesn't kill anyone it's not made for!

[17:02] <NickE> !

[17:02] <Dan> Yike!

[17:02] <Lensman> I mean the beginning of the story. As I said, I couldn't stand to watch, so dunno about the rest of it.

[17:02] <F_RED> yeah, I said to my friend "hey, this is GREEN LANTERN"

[17:02] <Dan> LOL, just as I thought, they nicked the title and put in the story that they wanted.

[17:03] <F_RED> he opined that GL was ripped from Lensman in the first place

[17:04] <Lensman> Lets check Wikipedia and see when it debuted.

[17:04] <NickE> elements maybe

[17:04] <F_RED> silver age green lantern is very late 50s

[17:05] <NickE> Yeah, just reading some reprints 1959

[17:06] <Lensman> July 1940, _Gray Lensman_ was 1938. Maybe, but was Lensman really the first "interstellar cop"?

[17:06] <Lensman> When did Captain Future first appear?

[17:06] <F_RED> Tomorrow

[17:06] <Dan> LOL

[17:06] <TreeHugger> lol

[17:06] <Lensman> 1940. Hmmm.

[17:07] <Lensman> Golden age Green Lanern started in July 1940.

[17:07] <F_RED> yeah, but golden age GL is a different animal

[17:08] <Lensman> But, correct me if I'm wrong, it was the golden age green lantern who got his Ring of Power from a dying alien who crash-landed on Earth. The silver age GL got his Ring a diffrent way, didn't he?

[17:08] <F_RED> yes, totally

[17:09] <F_RED> wait

[17:09] <F_RED> the silver age guy, 1959, got his ring from the dying alien

[17:09] <F_RED> the golden age WW2 guy found a magic lantern and made his own ring

[17:10] <TreeHugger> Ooookayyy

[17:10] <F_RED> hey, it was a simpler time :)

[17:10] <Lensman> Oops! My bad.

[17:11] <TreeHugger> So Green Lantern Corp was a silver age thing?

[17:11] <F_RED> yes

[17:11] <Lensman> Okay, so the Anime Lensman copied its story from silver age GL, not golden age.

[17:11] <F_RED> the whole 'from space' and 'galactic police force' bit is from the 1960s

[17:12] <Nick_Danger> back

[17:13] <Lensman> Okay, if the Green Lantern Corps is only a silver age thing, it's a lot more believable it's partially stolen from the Lensman series. After all, an Analog poll done in the 60s had Lensman finishing 2nd place in a reader's poll of "best series ever", behind Foundation, despite the last of Lensman having been published over a decade before the poll and Foundation still being current at the time.

[17:14] <NickE> s no good, cant keep eyes open, gonna hit hay. Sorry to cut out but really fubar

[17:14] <Lensman> G'nite Nick!

[17:14] <F_RED> nite nick

[17:14] <Dan> Goodnight, NickE!

[17:14] <TreeHugger> Bye Nick!

[17:15] <NickE> nite all. Keep the tanjstuff rolling :-)

[17:15] <Nick_Danger> good night nick

[17:15] * NickE has quit IRC

[17:16] <TreeHugger> I'm going to go, too, get some some stuff done here. I'll try to get back on later for the Oz chat.

[17:16] <Dan> Bye TreeHugger!

[17:16] <TreeHugger> Bye all

[17:16] * TreeHugger has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)

[17:16] <Nick_Danger> I show back up, and everyone goes to bed. (; Goodnight Treehugger

[17:18] <Dan> It's nothing personal, Nick.

[17:20] <Nick_Danger> heh

[17:20] <Nick_Danger> i'm just on a different time zone...

[17:20] <Dan> Drat, I have to leave for work in 40 minutes.

[17:21] <Dan> Last week's holiday layoff spoiled me. But then, I suppose it was a foretast of what my retirement will be like.

[17:22] * SeanS sets mode: +o Lensman

[17:24] <Lensman> I'm honored! But seriously, does that have any real meaning? Can I now create green force field objects with the power of my will? :) Or at least kick off babbling idiots like Matt_Daemon or whoever that was?

[17:25] <Dan> Yeah, but you'll have to learn the commands in the format that Sean's server recognises them.

[17:25] <F_RED> Matt Daemon was a babbling idiot? I thought that was Ben Afflack.

[17:25] <Dan> LOL

[17:25] <Lensman> No, that would be Adam Spandler

[17:26] <F_RED> my first exposure to Afflack was his commentary on ARMAGEDDON

[17:26] <SeanS> its a standard irc server

[17:26] <F_RED> which he was apparently stinking drunk while doing

[17:27] <F_RED> he goes on about how dumb the premise is because there is no group of people that go around the world fighting oil fires

[17:27] <Lensman> Well actually I *do* know the command for kicking somone off an IRC chat, altho I've never tried to use it and have no idea who is or isn't authorized to use it.

[17:27] <F_RED> which must have come as a shock to Red Adair

[17:27] <F_RED> and then gets into how there's nothing to learn about deep drilling except that you have to point the drill 'down'

[17:27] <Lensman> !!! Guess he's never seen "Hellfighters" or whatever that John Wayne movie was!

[17:28] <Dan> Hellfighters is right.

[17:28] <F_RED> yeah, Hellfighters, Wayne played Red Adair, who was a real person, and IIRC still alive at the time of Armageddon

[17:28] <Dan> I remember seeing that one at a drive-in as a child.

[17:29] <Lensman> Speaking of professionals who fight oil fires, that was a totally kewl invention after the first Gulf War of using jet engines to blow out oil fires! It let them put out the burning Kuwait oil field fires in a small fraction of the estimated time.

[17:30] <Lensman> Just inject water into the jet exhaust. No dynamite needed!

[17:30] <FrGeek> Yah I remember that, I hear Ben affleck inevnted it

[17:30] <F_RED> try THAT with a fusion drive

[17:30] <Lensman> LOL!

[17:30] <Lensman> I think that would be counterproductive...

[17:31] <F_RED> could you put out a fire with a gravity polarizer?

[17:31] <Dan> Fusion drive would just melt the surrounding sand into a glass cap over the well. LOL!

[17:32] <FrGeek> Is it just me or is each tiem an actor or musician tryto show us how intellegent they are, they fail miserably?

[17:32] <Lensman> Interesting question. Fire doesn't burn well in microgravity as the convection currents bringing in fresh oxygen to the fire don't flow. So if you make the area of the fire zero-G...

[17:32] <F_RED> Sharon Stone being the classic example

[17:32] <FrGeek> I Was jsut going to say fire doe not burn well with no convection currevts

[17:32] <F_RED> yeah, I was thinking you'd do better with lower gravity than with higher gravity

[17:32] <Dan> Well, Ed Wood was always the most intelligent person in Hollywood. LOL!

[17:33] <Lensman> Suzanne Sommers would be my poster-child.

[17:33] <F_RED> Stone spent YEARS claiming she was in MENSA

[17:33] <F_RED> until MENSA got so sick of it they came out and screamed NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[17:34] <FrGeek> Why do peopel make stupid claism that are so easily verified?

[17:34] <F_RED> Then instead of shutting up she changed her story to "she went to a MENSA school"

[17:34] <Lensman> I saw Suzanne Sommers on a talk show once. Wow, talk about type-casting for bimbos...

[17:34] <Dan> Because their celebrity leads them to think that no one will ever try to check.

[17:34] <FrGeek> If I had a time each tiem I head a politician say "I never said that" in spit eof the videotape, I woudl be a rich man

[17:34] <F_RED> to which MENSA came out and said "not unless you're like 20 years older than you claim you are"

[17:35] <Lensman> Clearly Stone's publicist isn't adept at damage control...

[17:35] <F_RED> yeah, case in point, Howard Dean. Every time he claimed he hadn't yelled, they showed the tape of him yelling.

[17:35] <F_RED> Why not just say 'damn right I yelled!'

[17:36] <Lensman> What Fred said. Why is it perceived as bad to get excited about something? Dumb, dumb, dumb.

[17:36] <F_RED> yeah

[17:36] <F_RED> it's not like he was yelling like a girl and running away from a fire leaving orphans to burn

[17:37] <F_RED> he yelled in a convention. sheesh.

[17:37] <Lensman> If Dean had simply said "Of *course* I yelled! I'm excited about the prospect we'll win!" ...would he now be president?

[17:38] <Dan> Nah, the Newwsies didn't want him to win.

[17:38] <Lensman> Newsies do often seem like chickens pecking one of the flock to death if they see a spot of blood on it.

[17:39] <FrGeek> "If he said Yah I scream, I screamed becuase we have teh energer to win" would at least not make me feel he thinks I am an idiot

[17:42] <FrGeek> I may not be able to type, but I am not an idiot ;)

[17:42] <F_RED> yeah, he wouldn't have won, but he wouldn't be (as much of) a joke

[17:47] <Dan> Sometimes I wonder if we all wouldn't have been better off if the first cave men to invent politics, religion, and other forms of crime hadn't been instantly killed by the other cave men.

[17:47] <Dan> Or should that have read "had been instantly killed"?

[17:48] <FrGeek> Well I obvious don't agree with you abot the religion thing ;)

[17:48] <Dan> LOL

[17:49] <Dan> Obviously not. I'm just entirely too cynical for my own good.

[17:50] <Dan> And I appologise for any insult.

[17:51] <Lensman> Well of course it's easy to say "The first person to come up with X shoulda been killed and we'd all be better off", but of course humans have a *need* for such things-- it's part of our psychology. If it weren't, the ideas would neve have caught on.

[17:52] <Lensman> Anyway, domination games-- which form part of politics-- predate humanity. You can see the same social forces at work in any herd animal, and in packs of dogs and wolves.

[17:53] <F_RED> and reindeer

[17:54] <Dan> Actually, I agree. We'd have never developed beyond animals if we'd done away with dominance games.

[17:54] <Lensman> Reindeer are herd animals. Domsticated Caribou.

[17:55] <Lensman> The pecking order of SF fandom is well represented, and amusingly so, here:

[17:55] <FrGeek> Hey Don't worry, If I were insulted you would know

[17:55] <Lensman>

[17:55] <Dan> And now everyone knows why I try to keep myself from debating politics or religion. My POV is too narrow.

[17:56] <FrGeek> Oh yah teh geek hierachy, I have a copy, that put snear teh top

[17:56] <F_RED> It's not too narrow, so much as it's not broad enough.

[17:56] <Dan> LOL

[17:56] <F_RED> ;)

[17:57] <Dan> And now that I've revealed my shortcomings to the people I admire most, it is time for me to leave and get ready for work. LOL! (Open mouth, insert foot, exit gracelessly...)

[17:59] <Dan> I'll see everyone at a later time. For now, I have to go make fiberglass to keep people's homes warm this winter...

[17:59] <Dan> Hugs, and all.

[17:59] <Dan> enters quietly and moves to a shadowed corner. He looks about himself as if for a familiar face. Shaking the folds of his dark blue cloak, he pushes it's hood back from his long gray hair and smiles shyly.

[17:59] <FrGeek> Night

[17:59] <Dan> listens closely to the conversations around himself, taking a seat at an empty table. In the flickering shadows, a drink appears in his left hand-- the liquid within so cold that it steams. He smiles and relaxes at what he hears and sees.

[17:59] <Dan> This seems to be a good spot to relax.

[17:59] * Dan has quit IRC

[18:00] <F_RED> he spilled the steaming drink on his keyboard

[18:02] <Lensman> Altho it's overly simplistic to call the Geek Hierarchy Chart a "pecking order". As the chart accurately shows, there are various groups who each consider themselves superior to the others.

[18:10] <Flying_away> Anyone still here?

[18:11] * Flying_away is now known as FlyingDragon

[18:11] <FrGeek> tI'm looking out of teh corner of my eye

[18:11] <FlyingDragon> Friends gone. Few minutes till party time.

[18:11] <F_RED> chart doesn't even differentiate between trekkers and trekkies

[18:12] <FlyingDragon> WHat chart is that?

[18:12] <F_RED>

[18:12] <FlyingDragon> ah,

[18:13] <Lensman> A difference that makes no difference is no difference.

[18:13] <F_RED> and, lensman moves to the bottom of the chart

[18:13] <F_RED> right below erotic furries

[18:13] <Lensman> Oh, it's by no means complete. But it's complete enuff to be worth discussing, anyway!

[18:14] <FlyingDragon> Well, it is importatn to disctuisuish between certian things. Like two new techniques I learned recently. THe way I lerned them, it was hard to tell the differance. But when David Pu Sa Bum Nim showed me the differance, there was a BIG differance.

[18:14] <Lensman> LOL! Only if you believe "Lensman Gadfly" is me putting myself into the fanfic...

[18:16] <Lensman> Anyway, "my group" is several places over the chart, including very near the top in "literary SF fans". Also in roleplaying games, and altho I wouldn't describe myself as a "trekkie" I certainly know more lore about Classic Trek than many of them do!

[18:18] * Harry_Redd has joined #knownspace

[18:18] * Harry_Redd has left #knownspace

[18:18] <FlyingDragon> Can't welcome him back if he won't do more than open the door.

[18:19] * Harry_Redd has joined #knownspace

[18:19] <Harry_Redd> Hi All

[18:19] <F_RED> hey harry

[18:19] <Lensman> "People come and go so quickly here!" --Dorothy Gale

[18:19] <F_RED> did you take a nap?

[18:19] <F_RED> (why, is there one missing?)

[18:19] <FlyingDragon> WB, Redd

[18:19] <Lensman> Welcome back Harry

[18:19] * FlyingDragon is now known as RedDragon

[18:20] <Harry_Redd> Yupper. I needed it too.

[18:20] <Lensman> Lessee, what time is the Oz chat?

[18:20] <RedDragon> I need one. I hurt my back during MAster's Club.

[18:20] <Harry_Redd> The Ozites should start drifting in in a couple of hours.

[18:20] <Lensman> "Hurt" as in need to take it easy for 3 days or so, or "hurt" as in a real injury?

[18:20] <RedDragon> THe former, I beleive.

[18:21] <Lensman> Hope so.

[18:21] <Lensman> Well we can hope Larry will show up at the Oz time, he did that once when I was here, but so far he hasn't shown.

[18:21] <RedDragon> He needs reminders, often a personal letter. He doens't often actually read the list.

[18:21] <RedDragon> He is on digest.

[18:23] <RedDragon> The lists I get on digest I often read days later.

[18:26] <Lensman> Anyway, I have had the difference between "trekker" and "trekkie"-- that is, the difference as perceived by a self-described "trekker". But to an outsider, it reminds me of the old RPG joke: "Is the difference between a male and a female troll important?" "Only to another troll."

[18:27] <Lensman> Er, have had the difference explained to me.

[18:29] <RedDragon> MAybe a female only kills you if you come near her kits.

[18:32] <Lensman> "The arabs were laying around the oasis, eating their dates..."

[18:32] <RedDragon> LOL

[18:34] <Harry_Redd> I just sent a reminder to Larry.

[18:35] * Agincourtdb has joined #knownspace

[18:35] <Agincourtdb> hello

[18:35] <RedDragon> hello

[18:35] <Lensman> Hi!

[18:35] <Agincourtdb> how is everyone

[18:35] <Lensman> Tired, but well.

[18:36] <Agincourtdb> good

[18:36] <Agincourtdb> :-)

[18:36] <Agincourtdb> so what are we talking about this fine day

[18:36] <Harry_Redd> Many thing Court.

[18:36] <Harry_Redd> And HI.

[18:36] <Harry_Redd>

[18:36] <Agincourtdb> hehe

[18:37] <Agincourtdb> slam moon? sounds like a dance move involving nudity

[18:37] <Lensman> Well mostly no one particular topic. There was some discussion of Lensman, Sklark, Green Lantern, and the Anime Lensman, and who copied what and what came first.

[18:37] <Harry_Redd> It hasen't devolved in to Booze and Sex as far as I know, but I was gone for 2 hours taking a nap.

[18:37] <Agincourtdb> or worse: a wrestling move involving nudity

[18:38] <Agincourtdb> lol frank

[18:38] <FrGeek> I may never watch wrestling again....

[18:38] <Lensman> Also politics, fandom pecking order, 'puter problems, celebrity airheads... you know, typical topic drift for fans.

[18:38] <Agincourtdb> hey, if we're gonna hit anything with comets, it should be mars, so as to terraform

[18:38] <RedDragon> gotta go do the family thing.

[18:39] <Agincourtdb> awwwww

[18:39] * RedDragon is now known as Flying_away

[18:39] <Agincourtdb> but i just got here

[18:39] <Harry_Redd> Boxing is a GAY Sport! In Where else would Two men in Satin shorts be fighting over a belt and a purse?

[18:39] <Lensman> Well I tried to "devolve" it into sex with the hoary old "The arabs were laying around the oasis, eating their dates" joke, but that was only because the conversation had died.

[18:39] <Flying_away> :-)

[18:40] <Harry_Redd> BOULDER, Colorado – A strikingly simple concept would provide efficient water provisions for human outposts/bases on the Moon. The idea is to repeatedly clobber our already crater-rich neighbor with tons of water ice—to establish an "anywhere, anytime" delivery system.

[18:40] <Harry_Redd> Not only could chucking a payload of water ice to the Moon help sustain an expeditionary crew there, the impact mimics—in experimental form—a comet strike. Therefore, it’s a double-whammy: A science mission wrapped within an exploration capability test mission.

[18:40] <Harry_Redd> Spearheading the speculative ploy—called SLAM—is Alan Stern, executive director of the Space Science and Engineering Division here at Southwest Research Institute (SwRI). He’s the lead scientist on another far out, but on the way, endeavor – the New Horizons spacecraft that is outbound for Pluto.

[18:40] <Harry_Redd> "I hope the SLAM idea stimulates thought and gets people thinking a little bit more out of the box," Stern told "When we have people on the Moon, they are going to need water. This is an exceptionally efficient, low-cost way to get it there."

[18:41] <Harry_Redd> Speaking of water, BRB!

[18:41] <Agincourtdb> or we could skip a step and send them to Europa or Callisto

[18:41] * Bill has joined #knownspace

[18:41] <Bill> HELLO KNOWN SPACE!

[18:41] <Agincourtdb> hi Bill

[18:41] <Lensman> Welcome Bill!

[18:41] <Agincourtdb> look it's Mr. Bill

[18:41] <F_RED> Isn't SLAM the kind of short sighted thinking that got the moon blown up in Space 1999?

[18:42] <Lensman> LOL!

[18:42] <Agincourtdb> dunno never watched it

[18:42] <Agincourtdb> little before my time

[18:42] <F_RED> 1999 was before your time??

[18:42] <F_RED> what are you, 5???

[18:42] <Lensman> But seriously, what do they propose as the driving engine for moving a sizable comet or ice-teroid? We are having trouble coming up with a drive to get a manned mission to Mars and back in six months.

[18:42] <Agincourtdb> Space 1999 the tv show

[18:42] <F_RED> humour

[18:43] <Agincourtdb> a comet is it's own fuel

[18:43] <F_RED> it is a difficult concept

[18:43] <F_RED> :)

[18:43] <Agincourtdb> as in Gripping hand

[18:43] <Lensman> Trekkie.

[18:43] <F_RED> grrrr

[18:43] <Bill> I'm sorry I'm here so late, but I went to the "doctor" today and came back with good news, so bought a couple of Irish Coffees to take the chill off. (Brrr!) "Space 1999" was before whose time? Lucky bastid ...

[18:43] * Bill has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)

[18:44] <Lensman> Sorry I couldn't resist! Your comeback shoulda been "Oh yah? If you aren't a trekkie, howcum you recognized the quote?" ;-)

[18:44] <Agincourtdb> doh, Mr. Bill got squashed

[18:44] <F_RED> In Space 1999 they put a nuke fuel dump on the dark side of the moon (yeah, yeah, I know) and it spontaneously combusted (yeah, yeah, I know) sending the moon hurtling AWAY from Earth (yeah, yeah I know) at translight velocities

[18:44] <Lensman> LOL! Who's Mr. Hands? Must be Sean...

[18:44] * Bill has joined #knownspace

[18:45] <Bill> Oh, crap, we're not going to play that game again, I hope ...

[18:45] <Agincourtdb> and somebody actually watched that show?

[18:45] <Lensman> ...fortunately pausing at various galactic locations once a week so they can interact with the locals and have a story...

[18:45] <Agincourtdb> somebody HERE?

[18:45] <FrGeek> IIt was on as a kid and I enjoyed it then

[18:46] <Agincourtdb> Anyway, fantastic joke. Timely. ;-)

[18:46] <Lensman> I freely confess I watched no less than 2 episodes of "Space: 1999". The second because, following on "UFO", I was *sure* the show had to improve. I was wrong; the second was even worse than the first...

[18:46] <Bill> As I started to say, Barbara Bain is one of the classic beauties: what she saw in Martin "Fish-lips" Landau is beyond me.

[18:46] * Bill has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)

[18:48] <Lensman> Martin Landau is a Great actor, as he proved in "Ed Wood". He was also a good series actor, as he demonstrated quite ably in "Mission: Impossible" (one of my all-time faves). I put down the removal of all emoting and emotional content from the show to the director.

[18:48] <F_RED> yeah, each week the moon would find a planet, settle into orbit, and they'd take ships down and explore the surface to see if they wanted to stay before the moon launched itself into space again

[18:48] <F_RED> and, no, the fuel dump was not still exploding. the mechanism causing this was never explained

[18:49] <F_RED> btw, Space 1999 is actually season 2 of UFO

[18:49] <F_RED> when they were pitching seaso 2 of UFO, they wanted something BIG for the first episode

[18:49] <F_RED> Gerry Anderson says LET'S BLOW UP THE EARTH!

[18:49] <F_RED> it was pointed out that this would greatly limit further story possibilites

[18:49] <F_RED> so Gerry says LET'S BLOW UP THE MOON!

[18:50] <Lensman> That's a fan myth, dispelled oin the "UFO" DVD commentary tracks.

[18:50] <F_RED> it is?

[18:50] <Harry_Redd> BACK!

[18:50] <F_RED> hey harry

[18:50] * Bill has joined #knownspace

[18:50] <Agincourtdb> it was 30 years ago

[18:50] <Bill> Hello? Am I back?

[18:50] <F_RED> yes

[18:50] <Agincourtdb> hi bill

[18:50] <Agincourtdb> wb

[18:51] <Harry_Redd> Back

[18:51] <Lensman> Yup, apparently entirely started by the use of the proposed expanded moonbase from the cancelled 2nd UFO season; the design was the basis for what became Moonbase Alpha.

[18:51] <Bill> Hello again, Angincourt. Hello Frank, are you really online again?

[18:51] <FrGeek> Where shoudl be a special box on eth geek hieatchary to UFO and SPace 1999

[18:51] <F_RED> hell, I'm in the SUPERCAR box

[18:51] <Lensman> But there is no other connection between the two shows, despite a fanwank attempt to put the two into the same universe.

[18:51] <F_RED> agreed

[18:52] <Harry_Redd> Yupper Bill

[18:52] <Bill> Look at the seats on the Moonbase set ... about the only props that weren't destroyed from "2001" --- they were the pilot/copilot seats in the rocket bus.

[18:52] <F_RED> I never understood how Barbara Bain won an Emmy for her acting in Mission Impossible

[18:52] * Bill has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)

[18:52] <Lensman> I'm in the Fireball XL-5, Thunderbirds, Supercar, Stingray and UFO boxes, looking down on the Space: 1999 box.

[18:52] <Harry_Redd> "OH"! That was ACTING?

[18:53] <F_RED> yeah

[18:53] <F_RED> who the hell else was nominated that year, the bloop from Lost in Space?

[18:53] <Lensman> Mmmmm... I really enjoyed MI, it was one of my faves (did I say that?) but it wasn't an actor's show.

[18:53] * Bill has joined #knownspace

[18:53] <Bill> Awww, shirt ...

[18:53] <Lensman> Hey Bill, come when you can stay awhile!

[18:54] <F_RED> Lensman, you're a supercar fan?

[18:54] <F_RED> wanna see some files?

[18:54] <Harry_Redd> An 85-year-old man was requested by his doctor for a sperm count as

[18:54] <Harry_Redd> part of his physical exam.

[18:54] <Harry_Redd> The doctor gave the man a jar and said, "Take this jar home and bring

[18:54] <Harry_Redd> back a semen sample tomorrow."

[18:54] <Harry_Redd> The next day the 85-year-old man reappeared at the doctor's office and

[18:54] <Harry_Redd> gave him the jar, which was as clean and empty as on the previous day.

[18:54] <Harry_Redd> The doctor asked what happened and the man explained,

[18:54] <Harry_Redd> "Well, doc, it's like this - first I tried with my right hand, but nothing.

[18:54] <Harry_Redd> Then I tried with my left hand, but still nothing.

[18:54] <Harry_Redd> Then I asked my wife for help.

[18:54] <Harry_Redd> She tried with her right hand, then with her left, still nothing.

[18:54] <Harry_Redd> She tried with her mouth, first with the teeth in, then with her

[18:54] <Harry_Redd> teeth out, still nothing.

[18:54] <Harry_Redd> We even called up Arleen, the lady next door, and she tried too, first

[18:54] <Harry_Redd> with both hands, then an armpit, and she even tried squeezin' it between

[18:54] <Harry_Redd> her knees, but still nothing.

[18:54] <Harry_Redd> The doctor was shocked!

[18:54] <Harry_Redd> "You asked your neighbor?"

[18:54] <Harry_Redd> The old man replied, "Yep, none of us could get the jar open."

[18:54] <Lensman> Seriously, perhaps you should try a different connection?

[18:54] <Bill> No shirt, Dave ... I don't seem to have any control over it at the moment.

[18:54] <Agincourtdb> lol Frank

[18:55] <Lensman> Well, I *was* a Supercar fan. We watched an episode at one of our film fests-- I can't even sit thru an entire episode of Thunderbirds now. Supercar was painful.

[18:55] <Harry_Redd> Bill, you should look into Earthlink

[18:55] <Lensman> Often, you can't go home again.

[18:55] <F_RED> :(

[18:55] <Lensman> Bill: How are you connecting? IRC? Java client?

[18:56] <Lensman> It's that damn monkey, I tell you! (in Supercar). Well no, Mike Mercury no longer thrills me either.

[18:56] <Bill> Supercar fen? If I weren't in the middle of another project now, I'd send some shorts from my Supercar film. (Probably won't be released until after "2001: A Special Odyssey."

[18:56] <F_RED> well, if you'd like to see my model supercar

[18:56] <F_RED>

[18:57] <Lensman> Dammit Bill you have to quit teasing us like that! Go ahead and finish the thing already tanj dammit!

[18:57] <F_RED> or if you'd like to see the Supercar calendar I made last year

[18:57] <F_RED>

[18:57] <Bill> F_Red: I'll check on that. Dave: I will *WILL* send you the clip this evening.

[18:58] <Bill> BUT I'm going to be AGOH at RadCon with Larry as GOH, I promised I'd premiere the thing at the con. Then it's gonna be all over the internet.

[18:58] <Lensman> Which Dave?

[18:58] <Lensman> So when is RadCon?

[18:59] <Bill> But: RadCon gets it first.

[18:59] <Lensman> That's fine, I just want to see the thing! And show it to my movie group, the Laser Rangers.

[18:59] <Lensman> We have a very big-- enormous-- 2001 fan in the group.

[19:00] <F_RED> I was very annoyed they didn't make a 2001 calendar in 2001

[19:00] <Agincourtdb> lol

[19:00] <Agincourtdb> now that's a good point

[19:01] <Agincourtdb> inexcusable

[19:01] <F_RED> I actually made one as an Xmas gift for a friend who was even more annoyed than I

[19:01] <Agincourtdb> make a 2010 calendar and I'll buy one hehe

[19:01] <Bill> Dave, I mean David S ... you? Still at peoplepc?

[19:01] <F_RED> heh

[19:02] <Bill> I jab 2010 pretty hard in the ribs with this abortion.

[19:02] <F_RED> Let's see . . . as long as I'm sharing with you fold

[19:02] <F_RED> folk

[19:02] <Agincourtdb> ?

[19:02] <Lensman> Yah, it's just that when people say "Dave" or "David" in here or on the list I never know if they're talking to me or not, as we have, what? 3 or 4 Daves.

[19:02] <F_RED> any TOM SWIFT fans?

[19:02] <Agincourtdb> call me Agin I'm used to it. or Aggie

[19:03] <Bill> "My monster will not work with partial organs," Victor said half-heartedly.

[19:03] <Agincourtdb> or hey you

[19:03] <Lensman> Used to be a big TS Jr. fan, devoured every one of those and bought my own collection. Something else where "you can't go home again". VERY McCarthy era; "the enemy" has agents everywhere and TS and his friends' most inportant task is the fight against International Communism!

[19:03] <Agincourtdb> Bill is free-associating

[19:03] <Bill> Sorry again, Agin ...

[19:04] <Agincourtdb> hehe

[19:04] <Agincourtdb> ...penguin.

[19:04] <F_RED>

[19:04] <Lensman> That's why I go by Lensman, and Lens is fine, but when you say "Dave" I have to say "who" ??

[19:05] <Lensman> "penguin" ??

[19:05] <Harry_Redd> "" said Tom Swiftly.

[19:05] <Bill> "Isn't there something you should be telling us? ...and my companion is rapidly running out of limbs..."

[19:05] <Agincourtdb> penguin: the archetypal non sequitur.

[19:06] <Lensman> I once stumped the crowd during Charades with "Tom Swift and his Triphibian Atomicar". I was notorious, I tell you...

[19:06] <F_RED> lol

[19:06] <Bill> Felix, how are you? I've missed yer ugly face for some weeks now. (I'm sure nobody missed mins, mine's uglier than yours.)

[19:06] <F_RED> there is the endless debate on which 'inspired' which -- Supercar or Atomicar?

[19:06] <Lensman> Oh, like the Monty Python bit: "Burma!" "Why did you shout 'Burma'?" "I paniced."

[19:06] <FrGeek> TS?

[19:07] <Agincourtdb> ongoing in science building basements everywhere :-)

[19:07] <Agincourtdb> lens: exactly

[19:07] <F_RED> it's a palindrome

[19:07] <Harry_Redd> Moved in with Leslie Fish and recovering from the move.

[19:07] <Agincourtdb> so Frank

[19:07] <Agincourtdb> who are you in Burning City?

[19:07] <Harry_Redd> Regaspik

[19:07] <Lensman> Even better (obNiven): "Rotating Cylinders and the Possibility of Global Causality Violation". I kept telling the group that nine words was too long a limit...

[19:07] <F_RED> the schizophrenic cat owner

[19:08] <Agincourtdb> aaaaaah ok

[19:08] <Bill> I think that passes as a "tom Swiftie", or were you talking about *the* Tom Swift?

[19:08] <Agincourtdb> except you're not really like Reg

[19:08] <F_RED> *I* was talking about *the* Tom Swift

[19:08] <Lensman> What's a palindrome?

[19:08] <F_RED> Bolton

[19:09] <Harry_Redd> A Tom Swifty for me... "It's faster than the speed of light!" Said Tom Swiftly.

[19:09] <Agincourtdb> Michael Bolton?

[19:09] <Bill> "Madam, I'm Adam."

[19:09] <F_RED> Tom Swifties are an odd anomoly, as nothing of the sort occurs in the actual books

[19:09] <Lensman> Notlob is not a palindrome! "Able was I ere I met Elba" is a palindrome.

[19:10] <Bill> Biblical.

[19:10] <F_RED> must have been a pun

[19:10] <Agincourtdb> ok I have to admit to being completely lost now

[19:10] * Bill has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)

[19:10] <Lensman> er, "...saw Elba".

[19:10] <F_RED> It's a Monty Python sketch, Agin

[19:10] <Agincourtdb> did I smoke some pot without realizing it? because nothing anyone is saying is making any sense and I have the munchies

[19:11] <Agincourtdb> oh Python ok

[19:11] <Lensman> Ah! So that's where I know "notlob" from!

[19:11] <Agincourtdb> Did you see Palin is doing the Himalayas now

[19:11] <F_RED>

[19:11] <FrGeek> COme on even I got that one

[19:11] <Harry_Redd> Palindromes are sentencecs that spell the same way backwards and forwards.

[19:11] <Agincourtdb> i get that

[19:11] <F_RED> Himalaya was last year I think

[19:12] <Agincourtdb> ah must be a repeat I saw

[19:12] <Agincourtdb> looked interesting

[19:12] <F_RED> It was the first of his shows I wasn't entranced by for some reason

[19:12] <Lensman> Agin: Well you shoulda been in here earlier when Matt_Daemon wondered in. I truly thought we had a troll who was spouting nonense to annoy us. Well I was half-right...

[19:12] <F_RED> the first was the best, with the element of 'will we make it in 80 days' and all

[19:13] <Agincourtdb> there was an interesting show with Ewan MacGregor

[19:13] <Agincourtdb> where they crossed siberia on motorcycles

[19:13] <Agincourtdb> or something

[19:13] <Agincourtdb> might have been tibet

[19:13] <Agincourtdb> or somewhere else

[19:14] <Agincourtdb>

[19:16] <Agincourtdb> *crickets*

[19:16] * Harry_Redd has quit IRC (Ping timeout)

[19:16] * Harry_Redd has joined #knownspace

[19:16] <Harry_Redd> Back. Leslie had to make a phone call.

[19:16] <Harry_Redd>

[19:17] * Bill has joined #knownspace

[19:17] <F_RED> Himalaya was 2004

[19:17] <F_RED> doesn't look like he has a new one in the works

[19:19] <Bill> This is enough to urinate me off seriously. Netscrape won't talk to this page, and Exploder ejects me with no worning. What's the last note anybody got, if you don't mind my asking...?

[19:19] <F_RED> it is currently airing on Travel

[19:19] <F_RED> bill, you said 'biblical'

[19:19] <Agincourtdb> Use Mirc

[19:19] <Bill> Wello, that explains much...

[19:19] <Lensman> What Fred said. If you're not using mIRC, then do so now!

[19:19] <F_RED> then you quit

[19:20] <F_RED> or got quitted

[19:20] <F_RED> firefox handles this fine, if you want a browser

[19:20] <Lensman>

[19:20] <Bill> I haven't set up MIRC yet ... still using the brand-spankin'-new Java. It obviously sux ...

[19:20] <Harry_Redd> Bill, Please check the PM window.

[19:21] <Agincourtdb> I smell dinner

[19:21] <Agincourtdb> are people staying on for a while?

[19:21] <Lensman> I had to set mIRC back up today. Only took about 5 minutes.

[19:22] <Bill> Sean tried to help out on that, but I think (I actually HOPE) I've disabled IM ... too many worms and bugs.

[19:22] <Lensman> I certainly plan on being here for awhile, it's only 6 pm here.

[19:22] <Agincourtdb> k

[19:22] <Agincourtdb> I'll be back in a half hour or so

[19:22] <Harry_Redd> Me too! Once I had the Niven Chat info that is.

[19:22] <Lensman> The Oz chat starts in an hour, I think.

[19:23] <Bill> Fewkin dang, somebody should've said something by now ... I bet I'm booted again...

[19:23] <Agincourtdb> nope your

[19:23] <Agincourtdb> you're here

[19:23] <Lensman> I see you Bill

[19:23] * Agincourtdb is now known as agin_afk

[19:23] <Bill> No PM window, Frank ... I just got a batch of messages, however, so maybe I'm online yet.

[19:24] <Lensman> Gee, did the Monty Python references kill the chat?

[19:25] <Bill> Thanks , again ... Agin ...? (If you're from the deep south, it's pronounced the same...)

[19:25] <Lensman> Well, we were talking about Gerry Anderson shows.

[19:26] <Lensman> Ohhh... deep South accents. Did I tell my North Carolina story here?

[19:26] <F_RED> and I was putting up URLs of my work people were studiously ignoring

[19:26] <Bill> Lens, I'm sending you a file. Give it some time, it's not best compressed but should give you an idea of how sick my little brainchild is.

[19:26] <Bill> Which is "very" ...

[19:27] <Lensman> Fred: Was that the Supercar model? I tried to look at it, Quicktime started, but when I went back to look at it there was some gi-normous pic there that was extremely pixilated and much too large to view.

[19:28] <Lensman> Bill: What format?

[19:28] <Harry_Redd> ??

[19:29] <F_RED> that's . . . very odd

[19:29] <Lensman> Lessee... no, Fred's project is the 2001, and Bill, is yours the Supercar?

[19:29] <F_RED> no

[19:30] <F_RED>

[19:30] <F_RED> which file did you download?

[19:30] <Lensman> What's very odd?

[19:30] <F_RED> it's very odd that you couldn't view it

[19:30] <F_RED> did you download it or try to view it online?

[19:30] <Bill> Am I gone again?

[19:30] <F_RED> no

[19:31] <Lensman> Mmmm... sorry I closed the browser. Let's see if I can re-trace my steps.

[19:31] * Bill has quit IRC (Ping timeout)

[19:31] <F_RED> clicking the picture tries to view it in your browser. maybe your browser barfed

[19:31] <F_RED> especially if you went for the 374mb file

[19:32] <F_RED> but these were designed for people with low level PCs to view

[19:32] <Lensman> I went to:

[19:32] <Lensman>

[19:32] * Bill has joined #knownspace

[19:33] <Lensman> ...then clicked on the picture.

[19:33] <F_RED> k

[19:33] <Bill> Earth to Known Space?

[19:33] <F_RED> the left or the right pic?

[19:33] <F_RED> you're back, Bill

[19:33] <Lensman> Left

[19:33] <Harry_Redd> Bill: My new Phone: 623-247-7809

[19:33] <Lensman> Hi again, Bill

[19:33] <F_RED> weird. must have barfed your browser

[19:33] <F_RED> try 'download'

[19:33] <Lensman> -k-

[19:34] <F_RED> oh, it's double appened .zip

[19:34] <F_RED> stupid file

[19:34] <F_RED> it should work if you uncompress off your hard drive

[19:34] <F_RED> the calendar page should work fine

[19:35] <F_RED>

[19:35] <Lensman> I was just trying to look at a larger version of the thumbnail, I thought I'd check that out before deciding if I wanted to download something. Since I had to scrape off the hard drive and start from scratch recently, I'm rather leery of downloading stuff that's not from a professional site.

[19:35] <Harry_Redd> My new Phone: 623-247-7809

[19:35] <Harry_Redd> E-Mail me the DP chat addy again please.

[19:36] <Bill> This is *so* tiresome. You guys and gals are missing some of my best material, here. (If there are any femmefen aboard ... I can't seem to stay on long enough to find out...)

[19:36] <F_RED> only femme is carol, and she's afk

[19:36] <F_RED> as far as I know

[19:37] <Lensman> I don't think there are any femmefans in here at present, no.

[19:37] <F_RED> Lens, the calendar page won't make you DL anything. Just click on a thumb to view the larger image.

[19:37] <Bill> SB1, Frank ...

[19:38] * Bill has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)

[19:38] * Bill has joined #knownspace

[19:39] <Bill> "Well. Ithn't THAT spethial?"

[19:39] <Harry_Redd> I take it that you just sent it Bill?

[19:39] <Lensman> Yah, well, clicking on the thumbnail must open a truly enormous file, as it takes awhile to download even on broadband. Maybe there's some incompatibility between the file or server and my Firfox browser?

[19:39] <Bill> Yeah, and went down in flames with a Wonzan Zero in my 6 ..."

[19:40] <Lensman> "Firefox"

[19:40] <Bill> Big file, David ... 20 seconds out of better than 5 minutes, half-video res.

[19:40] <Lensman> Or maybe there's some problems with graphics settings. I'm beginning to wonder if I need more memory in my 'puter.

[19:41] <Harry_Redd>

[19:42] <Lensman> If clicking on the thumbnail just opens a larger picture, it shouldn't take that long. Is it downloading a video to my 'puter?

[19:43] <Bill> I'd be interested in your reaction, though ... it *is* silly, but I'm trying to make fun of all the people that shouldn't be making remakes, but are. (Still can't really fit Jackson's "Kong" in, nor the Tom Cruise "War Of The Worlds" -- and let's face it, a remake of "Forbidden Planet"?? Somebody pass me a drinki and allow me to die ofr Hemlock.

[19:44] <Bill> Should be about a 5Mb animation -- try Windows Media Player if you don't use VLC. It plays OK in that too ...

[19:45] <Lensman> _War of the Worlds_ *does* need a good remake. Unfortunately, altho 2005 saw no less than three of them, not one was a good remake. Oh I thought the Spielberg movie was a very good one, altho with some serious flaws-- but it wasn't H.G Wells' story.

[19:45] <Harry_Redd> Bill, you should L*O*V*E this:

[19:46] <Lensman> What WotW needs is not a "remake", but rather-- like Jackson's LOTR-- a new production faithful to the original.

[19:46] <Bill> Sean, did you get my note that I saw "Serenity" ... beautiful, rich, was I supposed to love Washburn before he got hisself kilt?

[19:46] <F_RED> it says the file sizes lens. one is 26mb, the other close to 400

[19:47] * Alex has joined #knownspace

[19:47] <Harry_Redd> Hi Alex

[19:47] <F_RED> somebody just set off a fireworks display a couple hundred yards from here

[19:47] <F_RED> a big one

[19:47] <Alex> HI all

[19:47] <F_RED> and it didn't get very far into the air

[19:48] <F_RED> I suspect somebody's major stash blew

[19:48] <Lensman> *What* says the file sizes? Not in my browser it doesn't. It just starts Quicktime when I click on the picture.

[19:48] <Bill> Hi, Alex, we're being appropriately pissed about mindless remakes of classicx films at the moment.

[19:48] <F_RED> it says the file size right next to the pic

[19:48] <Alex> Organlegger been in this month?

[19:48] <F_RED> v6_Supercar05_3i

[19:49] <Lensman> What country are you in, Fred?

[19:49] <F_RED> SUPCRVR4

[19:49] <Bill> Set "Windows Explorer" option to "view details"

[19:49] <Lensman> Alex: Nope.

[19:49] <F_RED> do you see the top text line:

[19:49] <F_RED> Supercar QTVR Test

[19:49] <F_RED> ?

[19:49] <Alex> Oh

[19:50] <Bill> How big is the file you have, Mr. S?

[19:50] <F_RED> do you see the download buttons above the pics?

[19:50] <Alex> Apparntly Inferno 2 is going well according to JPs blog

[19:50] <Alex> JPs also wrking on new Janissaries novel which I'm looking forward to

[19:51] * agin_afk is now known as Agincourt

[19:52] <FrGeek> Inferno is a vastly underrated book

[19:52] <Bill> George Clooney as Mike Mercury in a jet-black Supercar II ... the old one with the Cadillact tailfins sitting under a tarp saves the day when the new one gets in trouble ... There wouldn't be a dry seat in the house!!

[19:52] <F_RED> that's the masterspy supercar 2

[19:52] <Lensman> Bill: Oh! Sorry, you're right, the file size is listed right onscreen. I was thinking clicking the thumbnail just opened a larger picture... "When all else fails, read the instructions". But nontheless, when I did it while ago, I got an enormous picture much, much too large to see-- the individual pixels were like 1/8" across-- and it was a still picture, not a motion picture.

[19:53] <F_RED> you can get a johnny lightning tow of it and everything

[19:53] * Bill has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)

[19:53] <Agincourt> he still hasn't gone Mirc?

[19:53] <F_RED> tow = toy

[19:54] <Lensman> I have a small Johnny Lightning toy that does look like Supercar. Can't remember the name of the company. Like Hot Wheels but a different brand.

[19:54] <F_RED> and bootleg wood models on ebay

[19:54] <F_RED> there are official JL supercars

[19:54] <F_RED> several flavors

[19:54] <F_RED> and yes, I have them all :)

[19:54] <F_RED> you can even get a black and white one

[19:54] <F_RED> I lobbied for that

[19:55] <Lensman> I have a friend who collects wooden models. His Fireball XL-5 is enuff to make me die of jealousy! The Supercar model is very nice, too. But I think they're from an authorized dealer.

[19:55] <F_RED> I don't think there are any authorized wood fireballs or supercars

[19:55] <F_RED> there are metal ones

[19:55] * Bill has joined #knownspace

[19:55] <F_RED> hey bill

[19:55] <Bill> This is really frosting my pumpkin.

[19:56] <Bill> Did that get through, even?

[19:56] <Bill> Earth to Known Space ...?

[19:56] <F_RED> yes

[19:56] <F_RED>

[19:56] <Agincourt> Bill: go Mirc

[19:57] <F_RED> there's the color supercar, black condor, and the b&w supercar

[19:57] <Lensman> Is this unauthorized?

[19:57] <Lensman>

[19:57] <Bill> Do I have any way of uploading a single .jpg image to this page?

[19:58] <Lensman> I've never seen anyone paste a picture into mIRC. I think that's one reason it's so stable-- it allows only text.

[19:59] <Lensman> Does the Larry Niven list not have someplace to post files? If not, send it to me and I'll put it up at one of my websites. I can do that in, oh, 3-4 minutes.

[19:59] * FrGeek has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)

[19:59] * FrGeek has joined #knownspace

[19:59] <F_RED> warplanees is unauthorized

[19:59] <Bill> Masterspy's b&w, the authorized B&W minis to match the show, and the colored version ... yes, I'm aware. But I'm talking about a live-action Supercar very different from the original.

[20:00] <FrGeek> Like Thunderbirds the movie?

[20:00] <Bill> And "classic" supercar saves the day, after all is said and done!

[20:00] <F_RED> no idea what that is bill. love to see it.

[20:00] <Lensman> Gahh!! Why did you have to mention that!

[20:01] <Bill> PLEASE!!! I thought a lot of Jonathan Frakes's potential before I had to sit through that particularly butcherly abortion ...

[20:02] <Lensman> Was Frakes involved in the recent Thud-erbirds movie?

[20:02] <F_RED> he directed it

[20:02] <F_RED> this is authorized, but not wood:

[20:02] <F_RED>

[20:02] <Bill> I would too, F-Red ... I think it has potential, but it is once again revisiting someone else's vision and adding more spin, it wouldn't satisfy new audiences and it would disappoint trufen.

[20:03] <Lensman> Well IIRC the wooden models my friend has come with papers showing they're authorized. But I'll ask him about that.

[20:04] <Agincourt> ok gotta go

[20:04] <Agincourt> later everyone

[20:04] * Agincourt has quit IRC

[20:04] <Bill> Fireball XL5 was wonderful stuff! I used to make little toy XL5's that we would slip over the end of drinking straws and shoot at each other across the room, or in restaurants ... drove our parents nuts, I was 9 and Jim was 7 ...

[20:05] <Lensman> Fireball XL-5 certainly was my very fave show when it was on. I was just the right age, I'm sure.

[20:05] <Bill> Night, Agin , again ...

[20:05] * FrGeek has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)

[20:06] <Harry_Redd> Ah Wellk.

[20:06] <Alex> Not sure I've ever seen it (XL5)

[20:06] <Bill> It's too bad that Gerry Anderson never gave up with being satisfied that his actors were by definition puppets.

[20:07] <Bill> They never got better when he started using actors that didn't have wires in their jaws.

[20:07] <Bill> Might as well have ...l Roy Thinnes was wasted in "Doppleganger"

[20:08] <Bill> Or was it "Journey To The Far Side Of The Sun"?

[20:08] <Lensman> Same movie, two titles.

[20:08] <Lensman> That was Anderson's finest hour.

[20:08] <Harry_Redd> BRB

[20:10] <F_RED> The Warplanes guy is in town. He told me himself he's not authorized and Granada was bitching at him.

[20:10] <Lensman> Well I never could understand why "UFO" worked and "Space: 1999" did not. At least for me. In "UFO" the main character was certainly rather emotionless, yet there were some episodes where the actor was allowed to show some emoting and you saw it was just that he had a lid clamped on espressing himself. Very tight self-control; sometimes too tight.

[20:10] <Lensman> With "Space: 1999" it just seemed like bad directing, period.

[20:11] <F_RED> If he got authorized at some point it's news to me. I can ask Granada/Carleton. How long ago did your friend get his model?

[20:11] <Bill> Sure it was, Lens ... Big heavy vehicles belching white smoke, hovering to burn unneccesary fuel off while they retract landing gear before attempting to reach orbit -- even young kids watching the film at the same time as I did went, "You couldn't get away with that: Power-to-weight ratios ...etc. etc."

[20:11] <Lensman> Who is "Granada" ?

[20:11] <F_RED> the current owners of the Anderson stuff

[20:12] <F_RED> actually I think it was Carelton bitching at him, and then they got taken over by Granada

[20:12] <F_RED> but they're all in England. They don't care a whole lot about what some guy in Arizona is selling.

[20:12] * Harry_Redd has quit IRC (Ping timeout)

[20:12] <Lensman> My friend got the Fireball XL5 model... maybe a year ago. The Supercar model earlier, altho perhaps not much earlier. I'm not sure what company he got them from; Pacific is the first thing that popped up in Google and does look like what he has.

[20:13] * Bill has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)

[20:14] * Bill has joined #knownspace

[20:14] <F_RED> the pacific supercar model I get when I google is the product enterprise diecast

[20:14] <Bill> Feces! Ordure in the court! Effluence! What did you get?

[20:14] <F_RED>

[20:14] <F_RED> that is authorized. it's the companion to that diecast fireball

[20:15] <Lensman> Well they are certainly very very nice. If they're not authorized that's too bad, altho I'm sure it would add sommat to the price.

[20:15] <F_RED> okay, here's a question

[20:15] <F_RED> your friends SUPERCAR

[20:15] <F_RED> is the canopy opaque blue

[20:15] <F_RED> or is it clear with an interior?

[20:15] <Bill> I miss my XL5 set with the launcher ramp and the cardboard building with Boeing wings...

[20:15] <Lensman> No, it's painted gray, just like the Pacific model shows.

[20:16] <Bill> And my Supercar with the program disks ...

[20:16] <F_RED> that's an unauthorized wood one then, afaik

[20:16] <Lensman> It's an all-wood model AFAIK.

[20:16] <F_RED> ah, bill, the remco

[20:16] <F_RED> a classic

[20:16] <Lensman> So no clear canopy possible.

[20:16] <F_RED> I had that, and the big fireball set

[20:16] <Bill> Of course, they wouldn't let kids have them today.

[20:17] <Lensman> But these things are HUGE! The Pacific site sez 14", and that sounds about right. Pretty big for a shelf model!

[20:17] <Alex> NeDidn't watch much Gerry Anderson in my youth. A bit of 1999. Was aware of TBs - friends had the die cast models.

[20:17] * Harry_Redd has joined #knownspace

[20:17] <Bill> Red XL5's, blue launcher you had to set like a mousetrap, grey launch ramp ...

[20:17] <Lensman> Wouldn't let kids have what?

[20:18] <Bill> Not today! "You might poke your eye out ...!!!"

[20:18] <F_RED> there's an unauthorized wood FIREBALL that's 3' long

[20:20] <Bill> The XL5 set had a launch ramp with two red plastic XL5's, you'd load the launcher and spring-load it to the launch end of the track. Press a button, the launch sled would run to the end of the track and spring-launch the XL5 at the swooped end ... it was great for terrorizing pets!

[20:20] <Harry_Redd> If kids don't hurt themselved occasionally, how are they suppose to learn?

[20:21] <Bill> So, are you suggesting that kids are learning today, Frank?

[20:21] <Harry_Redd> No, I am suggesting that they are not.

[20:22] <F_RED> here bill

[20:22] <F_RED>

[20:22] * lambert has joined #knownspace

[20:22] <F_RED>

[20:22] <Bill> I've found a few exceptions, but I come back to "The Last Starfighter" and halfway believe that most of the shoot-em-up games are disguised training programs for future warriors that have quick reflexes in an electronic battlefield.

[20:23] <Harry_Redd> You raise kids in a totally safe environment and then when they get into the Real World, it bites them and they start considering themselves VICTUMES.

[20:23] <lambert> victumes?

[20:23] <Lensman> Bill: There were things that bothered me, science-wise, about "UFO", such as the fact they were said to not have FTL travel yet various plot elements couldn't have occurred without FTL travel; and some episodes like the surreal "Reflections in the Water" seemed less SF and more fantasy. But the newtonian motions I thought were okay. Compare with, say, Disney's "Black Hole", where in microgravity a rocket descends and coasts gently to a stop with the

[20:23] <lambert> victuals + legumes?

[20:23] <Harry_Redd> The Seals and U.S. Army have marketed video games with just that in mind Bill.

[20:23] <Bill> "Your mama never got you a Gameboy??" "WHAT is a GAMEBOY??" "That's it ... gimme that!!"

[20:24] <lambert> so, a rollicking chat as always, eh?

[20:24] <Harry_Redd> Kinds Lambert. Brains like vegetables.

[20:24] * Bill has quit IRC (Ping timeout)

[20:24] <lambert> (pong timeout)

[20:24] <F_RED> lensman: how about that the UFOs ALWAYS had to fly past the moon to get to earth?

[20:24] <F_RED> you'd think it would be easy enough to avoid that :)

[20:25] <Harry_Redd> And none seem to come on over the poles... Except Larry's. ;-)

[20:25] * lambert has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)

[20:25] <Lensman> Fred: Yah, that's a rather glaring plot hole!

[20:26] <F_RED> here you go bill

[20:26] <F_RED> ack, he's gone

[20:26] <F_RED> again

[20:26] <Lensman> Well, the Chirpsithra are not AFAIK organleggers, so no SHADO defense needed.

[20:28] <Harry_Redd> I for one KNOW that I judge other cultures by my own and am willing to recognize differences. When the Aliens come, will we find out that GREED is Universal?

[20:29] * Bill has joined #knownspace

[20:29] <F_RED> "when"??

[20:29] <F_RED> hey bill

[20:29] <F_RED>

[20:29] <F_RED> halfway down the page

[20:29] <Harry_Redd> I for one KNOW that I judge other cultures by my own and am willing to recognize differences. When the Aliens come, will we find out that GREED is Universal?

[20:29] <F_RED> there's your fireball playset

[20:29] <Bill> This is getting very irritating.

[20:29] <F_RED> harry: "when" the aliens come???

[20:29] <Harry_Redd> I suspect it's your ISP Bill.

[20:29] <Bill> NOT PRESENT COMPANY!! Just bouncing in and out in the middle of a thought ...

[20:30] <Harry_Redd> When we recognize them thenF_ RED

[20:30] <Lensman> Bill: Looks like WAY past irritating. Have you tried using a different browser? Firefox and, I believe, Opera are free downloads and both highly recommended by users.

[20:30] <Bill> Sean! I got to see "Serenity" --- very impressive!

[20:30] * Bill has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)

[20:30] <F_RED> lol

[20:31] * Bill has joined #knownspace

[20:31] <F_RED> hey bill

[20:31] <F_RED>

[20:31] <Harry_Redd> Yeah, one hell of a movie BIll.

[20:31] <Bill> AM I IN??

[20:31] <Lensman> Poor Bill! Anybody know what "Connection reset by peer" means?

[20:31] <Lensman> Well at the moment you are, Bill...

[20:31] <Harry_Redd> It means that either the computer or the ISP is screwing up.

[20:31] <Lensman> We expect that status to change second-by-second, tho.

[20:31] <Bill> (Grrrr ... bite!)

[20:32] * Flying_away is now known as DragonPeekingIn

[20:32] <Lensman> Hello Voyeur Carol!

[20:32] <DragonPeekingIn> Don't snap at me, Bill!

[20:32] <DragonPeekingIn> 'Lo, Lens

[20:32] <Bill> Hello, am I bounced again?

[20:33] * Bill has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)

[20:33] <DragonPeekingIn> What is happening to Bill?

[20:33] <Harry_Redd> HI again Carol.

[20:33] <Lensman> We're not sure, but he keeps losing the connection to this chat.

[20:33] <Harry_Redd> I think his ISP is screwing him.

[20:34] <DragonPeekingIn> Still have to wait 30 more minutes to leave for the party!!!!

[20:34] <DragonPeekingIn> A black belt is celebrating his third degree, and has invited the black belts to a party.

[20:34] * Bill has joined #knownspace

[20:35] <Lensman> But do you have to wear the belt to be admitted? <g>

[20:35] <Harry_Redd> WB Bill

[20:35] <Lensman> Again

[20:36] <Harry_Redd> No Party crashers at that bask. ;-)

[20:36] <DragonPeekingIn> :-) They know who is black belt and who isn't!!!

[20:36] <Lensman> LOL! Yah that's one party it would be a mistake to try and crash!

[20:37] <DragonPeekingIn> At tournament, I figured out the great thing about having a black belt, and it isn't getting bowed to during the ceremonies. It is getting to hang out with the big kids. I've moved up to the adult table at Thanksgiving. I now get to stand around and chat with Masters!

[20:38] <DragonPeekingIn> Some of the black belts were telling me about the time when some drunks dropped into the do-jang during a black belt class.....

[20:38] <Lensman> ObObiWan: "You have taken your first step into a larger world."

[20:38] <DragonPeekingIn> So, everyone in the room is wearing a black belt. At my do-jang, we have more thrid degrees than second degrees, and first degreees adn coming outthe windows, and two eighth degrees...

[20:39] <DragonPeekingIn> So, these guys announce they can wup up on anyone htere.....

[20:39] <DragonPeekingIn> couple fo the black belts went over and talked them down out of their cloud, and they left peacefully. THey knew not what they did!

[20:39] <Harry_Redd> That must have been amusing Carol

[20:39] <DragonPeekingIn> Wish I'd been ther!

[20:40] <Lensman> Oh! A chance to practice without having to pull your blows!

[20:40] <F_RED> Like Superman

[20:40] <DragonPeekingIn> I may have shown some of you this youtube video of a Houston Kuk Sool MAster wupping up on this pimp who was beating one of his girls:

[20:40] <F_RED> pummeling Darkseid

[20:40] <Bill> Good evening, Gents, I'm going to give up. This is really pissing me off. DavidS, I hope you got my attachment. Anyone else interested in a preview of my sick lil film, feel free to email me at, but I've had a big day at the doctor and I'm going to settle down with the last of my turkey leftovers and watch the IMAX version of Apollo XIII on painkillers. Gentlemen, I bid you adieu while I'm still online. Frank, glad beyond words to see you'

[20:40] <Harry_Redd> Ah yes... The Damage Hollywood has done to peoples knowlege of the Real World.

[20:40] <Harry_Redd> Good to see you too Bill.

[20:40] <DragonPeekingIn> Bill, howp you can stick around awhil this time.

[20:40] <Lensman> PLEASE CALL ME LENSMAN!!

[20:41] <F_RED> okay

[20:41] <F_RED> LENSMAN

[20:41] <DragonPeekingIn> Lensman, I like this larger world!!

[20:41] * Madmike has joined #knownspace

[20:41] <Madmike> Bleargh

[20:42] <F_RED> Madmike

[20:42] <DragonPeekingIn> Hello, Mad!

[20:42] <Alex> Any of you guys seen 'Pink Five' Star Wars fanfilms - very funny

[20:42] <Harry_Redd> MIKE!

[20:42] <Madmike> hi

[20:42] <Bill> OK, Lensman! Sorry, there seems to be no "incognito" policy on this page ... and I don't mind going by "Bill" here.

[20:42] <Harry_Redd> Did Cleven or Fiore send you the pix of Leslie's sword?

[20:43] <F_RED> If you mouse over 'LENSMAN' it pops up his real name anyway :)

[20:43] <Bill> And "Pink Five Strikes Back" and "Return Of Pink Five" Volume 1 ... still no ROPF Volume 2 yet

[20:43] <DragonPeekingIn> ANyone interested in seeing more poor quality youtube vids, this is the form I"m trying to learn, performed by a master:

[20:43] <Lensman> Seriously, I think "Karate Kid" had it right, at least for those true to the real spirit of martial arts: "I don't want to learn Karate so I can fight-- I want to learn so I don't *have* to fight." At least that's the message I get from one of the youngest Laser Rangers, who has a junior level Black Belt. He says that he doesn't let guys at school provoke him into a fight, he just sluffs it off. Apparently just knowing you can take out the jerk in t

[20:44] * Madmike4 has joined #knownspace

[20:44] <F_RED> apparently lensman's sun just went nova

[20:44] <Madmike> "I could hit you with so many rights you'd beg for a left."

[20:44] <Madmike> who's Madmike 4?

[20:44] <Bill> Mu cursor disappeared, I bet I'm booted again. If any of you see this, goodnight!

[20:44] <Madmike> There is only ONE mad mike!!!!!

[20:44] <Harry_Redd> Mike! Did Cleven or Fiore send you the pix of Leslie's sword?

[20:44] <DragonPeekingIn> Yes, the martial arts masters I know are very peaceful men and women. It is the lower belt levels that are hard on people.

[20:45] <Madmike> no

[20:45] <Lensman> Bill: It's not that I want to be incognito, it's that there are at least 3 Daves on the list and when you say "Dave" I don't know who you're talking to?

[20:45] <DragonPeekingIn> Leslie's sword????

[20:45] <Madmike4> hmmm. interesting

[20:45] <Harry_Redd> They will. It seems to be something of an oddity.

[20:45] <Madmike4> ah! boogieshoes = madmike4 - got here via your link ib the chat

[20:45] <Madmike> However, THIS is my BOOMSTICK!

[20:45] * DragonPeekingIn wonders how many people confuse the Carols

[20:45] <Madmike4> how do i change my name?

[20:45] <Madmike> Hi, Boogie

[20:45] <Madmike4> :)

[20:45] <DragonPeekingIn> type /nick yournewname

[20:46] * Madmike4 is now known as boogieshoes

[20:46] <Harry_Redd> Slash Nick Name

[20:46] <Alex> "/nick newname"

[20:46] <boogieshoes> yay!!

[20:46] <boogieshoes> thank you :)

[20:46] <boogieshoes> i feel better, dressed as myself

[20:46] <boogieshoes> mmike's clothes are strange......

[20:46] <DragonPeekingIn> So, did anyone go peak a tthe youtube ofthe pimp and the martial arts master?

[20:46] <Harry_Redd> Yeah. SOmething her father bought many years ago.

[20:46] * Madmike7 has joined #knownspace

[20:47] <Harry_Redd> It's still loading for me.

[20:47] <Madmike> yes

[20:47] <Madmike> anyone seen how not to rob a liquor store?

[20:47] <DragonPeekingIn> The martial arts master was walking away, and the pimp ripped his clothes off to get at the martial arts master. The martial arts master knosked him down with ONE blow!!! Then a bud picked him up to carry him away, and he can't even walk!

[20:47] <Harry_Redd> I quit. It would take over an hour.

[20:47] <DragonPeekingIn> Mad, no.

[20:47] <Lensman> I'm sorry, I confess I do mix the Carols. I know one is a Black Belt and the other is from Berkely, but can't remember your last names.

[20:47] <boogieshoes> i dunno, but there's something wrong with announcing an event cancellation as 'the RUM is gone!'

[20:47] * Madmike8 has joined #knownspace

[20:47] <boogieshoes> hi guys

[20:47] <Madmike8> Herro

[20:48] * Bill has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)

[20:48] <Madmike8> oh woops

[20:48] <Madmike>

[20:48] <boogieshoes> to change the nicks, type /nick newname

[20:48] * Madmike8 is now known as kentbob

[20:48] * DragonPeekingIn is Carol "BlackBelt" Phillips

[20:48] <kentbob> yay!!!

[20:48] <Lensman> Mousing over Lensman doesn't do anything here, but since I did type my real name into mIRC during setup it doesn't surprise me you can find that.

[20:48] <boogieshoes> yippity!!

[20:48] <Harry_Redd> HI Bob

[20:48] <kentbob> heh

[20:48] <kentbob> There are those who call me....

[20:48] <kentbob> Tim?

[20:49] <DragonPeekingIn> Tim A?

[20:49] <Harry_Redd> Tim K?

[20:49] <boogieshoes> it's actually 'kent', bob, but 'cookie monster' works, too

[20:49] <kentbob> No, seriously, it's just Kent.

[20:49] <F_RED> you're the only one it does that for lensman

[20:49] <boogieshoes> er, it's kent. *harry*

[20:49] <kentbob> Mongo, or Cookie Monster will work.

[20:49] <DragonPeekingIn> TIm Kent, are you on the list?

[20:49] <boogieshoes> ::headdesks::

[20:49] <F_RED> the others mostly pop up APPLET

[20:49] <F_RED> Carol pops up REDFLAME

[20:49] <kentbob> Uh...

[20:49] <kentbob> I got a link from MadMike

[20:49] <Harry_Redd> Uh??

[20:49] <kentbob> Does that count?

[20:50] <F_RED> ah, Harry pops up Frank G

[20:50] <DragonPeekingIn> I"m still letting go of Redflame.

[20:50] <Harry_Redd> Ok, That's reasonable KB. Mike knows good people.

[20:50] <kentbob> heh

[20:50] <Harry_Redd> Welcome aboard. :-)

[20:50] <Lensman> Re "Pink Five"-- Yah those are some seriously funny videos! I keep trying to talk the Laser Ranger who has a DVD burner in his 'puter to put those on a DVD so we can watch them, but he hasn't yet. The last Pink Five was rather lame tho.

[20:50] <DragonPeekingIn> I don't get names when I point to people.

[20:50] <kentbob> Thanks much. It's good to be here.

[20:50] <F_RED> I'm gonna go play with Mom awhile. I'll leave this open, but I'll be strangely quiescent.

[20:50] <Madmike7> I'm Mac' via MMike too.

[20:51] <DragonPeekingIn> See ya fred.

[20:51] <Harry_Redd> Have a good one Fred.

[20:51] <boogieshoes> me three

[20:51] <boogieshoes> so... mmike... who are all these people? and why are we here in this handbasket?

[20:52] <Lensman> Kent: LOL! Can you throw fireballs then?

[20:52] <DragonPeekingIn> Bunch of people AKF

[20:52] <kentbob> lol

[20:52] <boogieshoes> AKF?

[20:52] <kentbob> Maybe, Lensman

[20:52] <kentbob> Maybe.

[20:52] <kentbob> Usually after a good bowl of chili.

[20:52] <Lensman> AFK = Away From Keyboard

[20:52] <boogieshoes> oh, you mistyped

[20:52] <Madmike7> nick newname Riteturn

[20:53] <kentbob> Boogie, if this is a handbasket, does that mean we're going where I think we're going?

[20:53] <Alex> Most of us are off Larry Niven mailing list, if that's whta you meant

[20:53] <boogieshoes> i think so, kent

[20:53] <Harry_Redd> Most everyone in here is a Niven Fan of one stripe or another Bob. But we talk about a LOT of other things.

[20:53] <boogieshoes> mack, '/ nick newname'

[20:53] <DragonPeekingIn> There was for a while of member of the list names Hellena Handbasket.

[20:53] <kentbob> nice.

[20:53] <boogieshoes> where 'riteturn' is typed in place of 'newname'

[20:54] <DragonPeekingIn> No space between / and nick

[20:54] <DragonPeekingIn> we always come back to Niven, swords, martial arts, and liquor.

[20:54] <kentbob> ooh!

[20:54] <Lensman> This chatroom was set up for the LarryNiven-l list's monthly chat, but they'll let anybody in. I mean I confessed to being a fan of Gerry Anderson's "UFO" and they haven't thrown me out yet...

[20:54] <kentbob> Martial arts!!!

[20:54] <kentbob> :-D

[20:55] <DragonPeekingIn> Kentbob, have you been here before?

[20:55] <kentbob> Nope.

[20:55] <Harry_Redd> Dragon just maDE bLACK bELT. :-)

[20:55] * Madmike7 is now known as Riteturn

[20:55] <kentbob> Congrats Dragon

[20:55] <DragonPeekingIn> THat was OVER THREE MONTHS AGO, thank you!!

[20:55] <Lensman> Dragon recently aquired her Black Belt and still is starry-eyed at her new peer group. :)

[20:55] <DragonPeekingIn> TY, kentbob.

[20:55] <kentbob> Does Mr. Niven frequent this chatroom?

[20:55] <Harry_Redd> So?

[20:55] <DragonPeekingIn> I"m still working on the modesty part! LOL

[20:55] <boogieshoes> boy... u don't drink much, haven't ead much niven, have no martial arts, and own no swords...

[20:55] <boogieshoes> why am i here again?

[20:56] <Alex> The chat seems to avoid the political flamewars that sometimes blight the list

[20:56] <DragonPeekingIn> Niven comes here sometimes.

[20:56] <boogieshoes> let's talk.... horsies!! or cookies

[20:56] <boogieshoes> i see

[20:56] <kentbob> mmm...cookies

[20:56] <boogieshoes> which list?

[20:56] <DragonPeekingIn> Boogie, you read Niven?

[20:56] <Lensman> Niven doesn't "frequent" this chat, but we always hope he'll show for awhile. Doznt look like he's coming today.

[20:56] <DragonPeekingIn> The Larry Niven Mailing List.

[20:56] <Alex> larryniven-l

[20:56] <Harry_Redd> Occasionally Kent. I'm trying to get Jerry Pournelle to come in and Brebnda Cooper has been in several time... Steve Barbes atleast once.

[20:56] <boogieshoes> only in conjunction with pournelle - mote in god's eye, gripping hand

[20:56] <boogieshoes> haven't read anything else

[20:56] <boogieshoes> ah...

[20:56] <boogieshoes> well, that explains the niven part

[20:56] <Lensman> What is Brenda's nick?

[20:57] <DragonPeekingIn> bcooper?

[20:57] <Harry_Redd> Yupper.

[20:57] <kentbob> I confess, the only thing I've read are Legacy of Heorot, Beowulf's Children, and Destiny Road, all of which I considered to be excellent.

[20:57] <DragonPeekingIn> 4 minutes till 8. The party starts in four minutes!!!! Get to go hang with high level black betls now!!!!

[20:57] <Lensman> Hafta make sure I don't rant about BHM if she's in chat.

[20:57] <kentbob> Oh boy, Dragon

[20:57] <Harry_Redd> Enjoy Carol.

[20:57] <DragonPeekingIn> Lensman, that would be polite.

[20:57] <DragonPeekingIn> TY

[20:57] <Alex> I think JP had technical probs last time he tried

[20:58] * DragonPeekingIn is now known as Flying_away

[20:58] <Alex> Just picked up Burning tower & BHM

[20:58] <Harry_Redd> I suspect it's his Firewall. I'm touting him on to OPERA so he can come in through his BROWSER settings. ;-)

[20:59] <Alex> Also just read 'A World Out of Time' - interesting

[20:59] <Harry_Redd> Have you read The Burnning City Alex?

[20:59] <kentbob> hmm

[20:59] <Lensman> Kent: Try _The Mote in God's Eye_, generally considered the best of Niven & Pournelle's collaborations.

[20:59] <kentbob> I think it may be time to mix a drink

[20:59] <Alex> Yeah - found it heavy going though

[20:59] <Harry_Redd> I'm in BURNING TOWER

[21:00] <Alex> Maybe the LA metaphors didn't work with me as a UKer

[21:00] <Riteturn> The CoDominium series is up for sale on Baen right now - $21 for 9 books - electronic

[21:00] <Harry_Redd> They do well togeather. The sum is greater than the value of the parts. ;-)

[21:00] <Lensman> I confess I haven't even tried to read _Burning Tower_. Cover blurb doesn't attract me, nor does Larry's description that it's his reaction to the L.A. riots.

[21:00] <Harry_Redd> I have a story in REVOLT ON THE WARWORLD CoDo : IV

[21:01] <Riteturn> you redshirted?

[21:01] <Alex> Nver read any Warworld

[21:01] <Harry_Redd> BURNING CITY is the Riot reaction. Lens, you might like BURNING TOWER.

[21:01] <Madmike>

[21:01] <Alex> Liked Falkenburg though

[21:01] <Harry_Redd> ME? in BT? No.

[21:02] <Alex> BRB

[21:02] <Harry_Redd> Lens, NEVER believe a cover Blurb.

[21:02] <Lensman> Well I just bought Burning Tower in pb the other day, now I'm debating if I want to read Burning City as it's the precursor to that, or just jump into Tower. Probably the former as I hate plot spoilers.

[21:03] <kentbob> Lensman, may I assume that you are a Doc Smith fan?

[21:03] <Lensman> Harry: Yah, well Kent just said he found it heavy going, which is what I fear.

[21:04] <Harry_Redd>

[21:05] <boogieshoes> ::belatedy congrats dragon on the black belt::

[21:05] <Harry_Redd> Heres a trick Lens. Pick up the book, open it at random and reads 2 pages. If it dosen't hook you, put it down.

[21:05] <kentbob> Hmm

[21:05] <Lensman> But Kent, I envy you, you have the entire body of Larry's solo work to explore! See if you can find a copy of the out of print _Neutron Star_, and after that plunge into _Ringworld_! I read _Ringworld_ first, and it's still my favorite Niven novel, but if you read _Neutron Star_ first you'll get more out of Ringworld as that has a lot of the background stuff and backstories.

[21:05] <kentbob> I'll have to keep that in mind.

[21:05] <Harry_Redd> Things make a bit more sense if you read Burning City first, but the book will stand alone.

[21:05] <kentbob> Who's Kent? Besides me?

[21:06] <Lensman> Harry: Well that's been suggested on the list, and as I said, that has only about a 40% success ratio when applied to a random selection of my favorite novels. Ringworld passed with flying colors, I admit.

[21:07] <Harry_Redd> City does NOT spoil the plot of Burning TOwer Lens. It enhanses it though.

[21:07] <Lensman> kentbob: Oh sorry that was Alex who found Burning Tower heavy going.

[21:08] * Riteturn has quit IRC

[21:08] <Lensman> Well I spoze I'll eventually get around to reading Burning Tower sooner or later-- after all it *is* a LN book!

[21:08] <Harry_Redd> -k- Whart we need for this chat is PROGREAMS! You Can;t tell one chatter from another without a PROGRAM!

[21:09] <boogieshoes> well, it's been 8 hours... stew should be ready

[21:09] <boogieshoes> it *smells* ready... yummy!!

[21:09] <Lensman> Yuppers that's why I tend to take notes on who's who for my chatroom score card.

[21:09] <boogieshoes> lol

[21:09] <kentbob> mmm...stew....

[21:09] <boogieshoes> testing

[21:09] <boogieshoes> awesome :)

[21:10] <Harry_Redd> I might dine at McDonnalds this evening.

[21:10] <boogieshoes> burple snot is contagious :-D

[21:10] <boogieshoes> can't do that; trying to lose weight

[21:10] <boogieshoes> got to lose... 80 lbs to get down to 160.

[21:10] <boogieshoes> ::sighs::

[21:10] <boogieshoes> it's work, and i don't get to eat anything fun :(

[21:10] <kentbob> I can't stand Mickey D's, personally.

[21:11] <Alex> _Neutron Star_ was republished (with new 'framing story') as _Crashlander_ - it's till available in UK

[21:11] * Madmike5 has joined #knownspace

[21:11] * Madmike5 has quit IRC

[21:11] <Harry_Redd> I can't either, but it's the only thing within my current range.

[21:11] <kentbob> whoops!

[21:12] <Alex> Good place to start with LN stories

[21:13] <Lensman> Kent: Don't listen to anyone telling you to buy Crashlander! That has major spoilers for _Ringworld_ and it's missing some of the best stories from _Neutron Star_!

[21:13] <Harry_Redd> *LOL*

[21:13] <Madmike> nice

[21:14] <Lensman> I dunno what the availability of a used copy of _Neutron Star_ is in the UK. In the USA you can find plenty of copies at <> and some at Dunno of offers that service or not.

[21:14] <Nick_Danger> abe books is good for that...

[21:15] <Nick_Danger> i'm sure you could find it in the uk.

[21:15] * kentbob has quit IRC

[21:15] <boogieshoes> ttl, folks - nice meeting y'all

[21:16] * boogieshoes has quit IRC

[21:16] <Madmike> I have Neutron Star. Why is it OOP?

[21:16] <Nick_Danger> Madmike -> Yep

[21:16] <Nick_Danger> I perfer Neutron Star to Crashlander. I've got both around here somewhere.

[21:18] <Lensman> Well Larry has been repackaging his anthologies and mixing in new stories for quite awhile. _The Shape of Space_ was the first casualty to never be reprinted. There was a valid reason for that originally, but I think the reason has been eroded away over the years. Now, too often a "new" collection is almost entirely reprints with a minimum of new material. That's why I held off buying _Scatterbrain_ for years.

[21:20] <Lensman> _Crashlander_ omits "The Soft Weapon" and "The Handicapped", both excellent stories. It also omits "A Relic of the Empire" which is only so-so, but that story is one of the ones providing background material for Ringworld.

[21:20] <Lensman> And of course "The Soft Weapon" also introduces Nessus, one of the main characters in Ringworld.

[21:21] <Lensman> All just my opinions, of course. Dave Lambert put a recommendation for _Crashlander_ on the Known Space website too, despite my protests.

[21:22] <Alex> I forgot CL misses out non-Bey stories

[21:24] <Alex> Neutron Star seems to be available used form amazon at OK price

[21:25] <Lensman> Yah, but we were trying to find one for someone in the UK.

[21:26] <Lensman> Here in the states its easy to find plenty of copies at <>

[21:26] <Madmike> Let's see, Relic of Empire was the Slaver weapon?

[21:26] <Madmike> or was that Soft Weapon?

[21:26] <Lensman> No, that was "The Soft Weapon".

[21:26] <Madmike> Relic of Empire is the grogs?

[21:28] <Lensman> "A Relic of Empire" was Rich Mann vs. "Captain Kidd", with stage trees. The reason it figures into the background for Rw is because of the discussion of the Puppeteer homeworld and how that's a big mystery. Actually I admit it's not that important as a lead-in to Rw. But "The Soft Weapon" certainly is; not only does it introduce Nessus, it also gives a good intro to the Kzinti.

[21:28] <Alex> Also avaliable used form

[21:28] <Alex>

[21:29] <Alex> Strangley enough, though some of these are US based shops, you pay UK shippping rates

[21:30] <Lensman> Ouch! International shipping rates.

[21:30] <Alex> Also leads-in to LN's next KS novel _Fleet of Worlds_

[21:31] <Harry_Redd> Yeah. I'm waiting on that one.

[21:31] <Madmike> right, I recall Relic

[21:31] <Alex> NO if UK-based & buy via marjetplace then you pay UK shipping rates (even if shop is US based. I know as I've done it before.

[21:31] <Madmike> good story

[21:31] <Lensman> Well both NS and Cl have "At the Core," which I think is the most important lead-in to _Fleet of Worlds_.

[21:33] <Lensman> I'm glad to read (in the log of last month's chat) that Sigmund Ausfaller shows up again in the sequel to _Fleet of Worlds_. I always liked the characted and was no happy when he was killed off.

[21:33] <Harry_Redd> At the COre is a great story... One that could be probabl too.

[21:34] <Alex> So Neutron Star would be £2.68+£2.75 used - not bad.

[21:37] <Harry_Redd> A bit more than the New price I suspect.

[21:37] <Harry_Redd> Rather, Pricce when new.

[21:38] <Alex> True

[21:39] <Alex> OK, I'm off to bed

[21:40] <Alex> 'night all

[21:40] * Alex has quit IRC

[21:41] <Harry_Redd> Still many, but little chat.

[21:42] <Madmike> we both have drill again tomorrow. Christmas part for me and the kids, Gail's shooting photos of the Warfighter exercise.

[21:43] <Madmike> got to run

[21:44] <Madmike> oh, and I think I've found a loophole to ditch the Army Guard and get back to the Air Guard

[21:44] <Madmike> 21 years of b/a/c/k/s/t/a/b/b/i/n/g/ learning the system is paying off;-)

[21:51] <Madmike> later

[21:51] * Madmike has quit IRC

[21:52] <Lensman> Is anyone else still here?

[21:56] * Madmike has joined #knownspace

[21:56] * Madmike has left #knownspace

[22:14] <Harry_Redd> ??

[22:15] <Lensman> Hi Harry.

[22:28] <Harry_Redd> Hi Lens.

[22:32] <Lensman> Worlds slowest chat?

[22:33] <Lensman> Actually I'm reading the log of *last* month's chat, just peeking back in here occasionally.

[22:52] * Lensman has quit IRC

[23:35] * senax has joined #knownspace

[23:35] <senax> Anybody still here?

[23:40] <F_RED> moi

[23:41] <senax> Hi.

[23:41] <F_RED> hey

[23:41] <F_RED> I just got back

[23:41] <senax> Once again I have let my various Saturday activities keep me away from the chat al day. :-(

[23:42] * Harry_Redd has left #knownspace

[23:45] <F_RED> :(

[23:45] <F_RED> I was here for hours

[23:45] <F_RED> then went to play with Mom

[23:45] <F_RED> we finished watching NORTH BY NORTHWEST

[23:45] <F_RED> looks like they actually talked Niven while I was gone :D

[23:46] <F_RED> Early chat was more far ranging. Supercar, UFO, Space 1999, toys of our youth

[23:47] <senax> It always seems to come around to old TV show sooner or later. Last time I was here it was Doctor Who for a long time.

[23:47] <senax> I couldn't contribute a thing, never having seen the show at all.

[23:48] <F_RED> Doc Smith, Lensman, Green Lantern, and which ripped off which

[23:48] <F_RED> Why the dumb actors and politicians try to convince us they're smart

[23:48] <F_RED> a bit of Tom Swift

[23:49] <F_RED> some Monty Python "parrot sketch"

[23:49] <F_RED> and carol told us some about her martial arts

[23:50] <F_RED> the last hour or so seems to have been about what niven books to read or not read before reading RINGWORLD

[23:50] <senax> Sounds like a typical Niven chat. Sorry I missed all that.

[23:51] * Lensman has joined #knownspace

[23:51] <F_RED> I thought they'd be deep into round two by now

[23:51] <senax> Hi Lensman

[23:51] <F_RED> the Aussie chat

[23:51] <F_RED> ah, speaking of Lensmen

[23:51] <Lensman> Ah! The chatroom is alive again!

[23:51] <senax> I've never seen much of a round 2 - maybe I haven't stuck around long enough.

[23:51] <Lensman> Mmmm... should I leave so y'all can talk about me?

[23:51] <F_RED> I was just catching friend senax up on our story thus far

[23:52] <senax> We'll talk about you right to your face.

[23:52] <Lensman> What time is it in Oz now?

[23:53] <senax> 1:53 PM in Perth

[23:53] <Lensman> Oh, still early yet!

[23:54] <F_RED> 1, 2, or 3 in the afternoon

[23:54] <F_RED> Oz be a big place :)

[23:54] <F_RED> 4 if you're in tasmania

[23:58] <Lensman> Especially if you include the outlying territories like Ix, Ev, Boboland and Rinkitink.

[23:59] <senax> Many machines in Ix...

Session Time: Sun Dec 03 00:00:00 2006

[00:01] <Lensman> Such as... ?

[00:01] <senax> It's a Dune quote.

[00:04] <Lensman> Okay, I confess I've only read _Dune_ once.

[00:04] <senax> I think the rest is " machines." Don't think there's anything after that--the character was commenting on someone haveng been to Ix.

[00:08] <F_RED> I don't think I ever finished Dune even once

[00:08] <F_RED> Had to turn back to the glossary to find out what they were saying once too often

[00:09] <Lensman> So, one wonders if Herbert was a fan of Baum, or was it just coincidence?

[00:09] <Lensman> I understand perfectly, I found Dune to be pretty heavy going and somewhat incomprehensible.

[00:09] <senax> Is Ix the name of a place in the Oz books then?

[00:10] <F_RED> I don't mind flipping to the back of a Niven book to look up Scrith since that's not something we had

[00:10] <F_RED> But DUNE seemed to make you look up alternate worlds for ordinary stuff

[00:10] <F_RED> to no good purpose'

[00:11] <Lensman> Yes, and all the other names I mentioned. There was a deadly desert surrounding Oz, and beyond that numerous small countries in a ring around Oz, at least according to maps made by "later explorers" of Oz and surrounding countries.

[00:11] <senax> I see...In Dune, Ix is a planet whose industry specializes in advanced technology--something of a black art after the Butlerian Jihad. It is so named because it it the 9th planet of its star.

[00:11] <senax> Don't know if Herbert was giving a nod to Baum.

[00:11] <Lensman> I just peeked at _Ozma of Oz_ to see if Tik-Tok was from Ix, which would certainly make "many machines" an in-joke, but he was from Ev.

[00:12] <senax> "Unfinished SF books" might be a good topic.

[00:13] <Lensman> Ix is most notable for Baum's non-Oz fantasy _Queen Zixi of Ix_, but the protagonist later showed up in an Oz book, tying the two together.

[00:13] <senax> I mispaced "To Say Nothing of the Dog" half-read this past summer, and didn't miss it for months. It was slow going.

[00:13] <senax> er, misplaced, that is.

[00:15] <Lensman> Well I just looked for my copy of _The Dreams Our Stuff Is Made Of_ and couldn't find it, and also I seem to have misplaced my copy of _A Gift from Earth_, the one with the Sternbach cover. I've still got a couple of older editions lying around, but Finagle it's not the same!

[00:16] <senax> I love the Sternbach covers. I have most or all of the paperbacks from that period--late 70s. That's when I discovered Niven.

[00:17] <Lensman> It's not as tho that copy of _Gift_ is irreplacable, but there's a hole in my collection now *pout*

[00:18] <Lensman> There have been some spectacular covers for _Ringworld_, but other than that the Sternbachs are the best, hands down. Recently saw a new cover for _Protector_ that showed a guy with a beak-- but normal hands! Clearly the artist hadn't read far enuff to see "hands like a fistful of walnuts".

[00:19] <senax> Yeah, the painting of Phssthpok in the Library is one of my favorites. That was Sternbach, wasn't it?

[00:19] <Lensman> I don't think so.

[00:20] <Lensman> Had to peek: H.R. Van Dongen

[00:20] <senax> H.R. Van Dongen.

[00:21] <senax> Yeah, I just want and grabbed it too.

[00:21] <Lensman> echo... echo...

[00:21] <Lensman> "You are in a maze of twisty corridors, all exactly alike."

[00:21] <senax> Still, pretty much a perfect representation of a Pak in my opinion.

[00:21] <F_RED> then again, that first cover of Ringworld with the gravity at right angles kept me from reading it for a looong time

[00:22] <senax> xyzzy

[00:22] <Lensman> It is the illo that springs to mind when I think of a protector, yes. He's the only one who seems to have captured what LN's description evokes.

[00:23] <F_RED> this one?

[00:23] <F_RED>

[00:23] <Lensman> Me too, Fred! There it was on the rotating rack in my high school library, on the outside where it could be clearly seen, tempting me every time I walked in the library. Yet the right-angle mtns made me think it was some sort of surrealistic work...

[00:24] <senax> Yeah the first-edition Ringworld cover is kind of crappy. Still, glad I found it (several years after becoming a Niven fan).

[00:24] <Lensman> Anyway, it was prolly over a year after I saw it that I first picked it up. And discovered I had a new "favorite" author!

[00:24] <F_RED>

[00:25] <Lensman> The first copy I bought still had that cover, altho I did go back some time later and find a copy of the first printing, so I could see what LN was talking about with the Earth rotating the wrong way.

[00:25] <F_RED> lol, good thing we didn't have this:

[00:25] <F_RED>

[00:26] <F_RED> wow, this is bizarre

[00:26] <F_RED>

[00:26] <Lensman> What, space is green?? Looks like a sports stadium!

[00:26] <F_RED>

[00:26] <senax> Wow! That German one looks like the first edition one, only worse!

[00:26] <Lensman> But yah, clearly the artist ripped off the original Rw cover.

[00:28] <F_RED>

[00:29] <F_RED>

[00:30] <F_RED>

[00:31] <F_RED>

[00:32] <Lensman> Oh, the 301 was prolly just something from the files they slapped on it. Could be worse, like some of the covers they put on Larry's American editions in the 60s.

[00:33] <F_RED>

[00:34] <senax> Hey, I _like_ that one!

[00:34] <senax> Much better than all the crappy covers you just linked!

[00:34] <Lensman> Have you looked at this page of the site?

[00:34] <Lensman>

[00:35] <Lensman> Some gasp-out-loud artwork there, better than anything I've seen on a book cover!

[00:35] <senax> Not lately.

[00:35] <F_RED> I used to have stuff on there

[00:35] <F_RED> before the fall

[00:36] <senax> The image is one I've used as wallpaper for a few months.

[00:36] <F_RED> hey, I'm back!

[00:36] <F_RED> got my own section, heh

[00:36] <F_RED> "virtual reality"

[00:37] <senax> Cool.

[00:37] <F_RED> argh

[00:37] <Lensman> Silly me, I made a crude Ringworld cartoon just so my Chronology would have something to look at besides plain text. Then I really started looking around the site. Heck I'd *much* rather have one of those illustrating my page, even if that means it's on the website twice!

[00:37] <F_RED> the links are all broken :(

[00:37] <senax> Back in a few minutes.

[00:37] * senax is now known as senax_afk

[00:38] <Lensman> Yah there are lots of broken links on the website. I spoze I could make a survey and document those... but I've decided to work on a Buck Rogers website while waiting for the Known Space site to be updated.

[00:39] <F_RED> at least I can see what the file names are

[00:39] <F_RED> I'll see if I've got those here

[00:39] <Lensman> Some of the book covers shown on the .org site are gorgeous, too-- ones I haven't seen before, so I spoze they are British editions.

[00:42] * senax_afk is now known as senax

[00:44] <Lensman> Well now I can't find that page, darn it!

[00:52] <F_RED> I found later renders I did of the Ringworld that are MUCH better

[00:55] <senax> I wouldn't mind seeing them.

[00:56] <F_RED> sure, gimme a sec . . .

[00:56] <F_RED> you need quicktime

[00:59] <senax> I don't have QT on this box, but I do have it on two others, so I can manage.

[01:00] <F_RED>

[01:00] <F_RED> download the two movies beginning with 'cubic'

[01:01] <F_RED> they're QTVR - quicktime virtual reality. you click your mouse and drag on the image to move around

[01:02] <Lensman> Doznt work for me-- "Quicktime performed an illegal operation". No, no, officer, I swear I didn't know my computer was an organlegger!

[01:07] <F_RED> I just tested them

[01:08] <senax> QuickTime tells me I need to download a plugin or an extension, but it doesn't say which one. Now it just says "Low memory, can't play".

[01:08] <F_RED> wait

[01:08] <F_RED> it's got a double period in the file name

[01:09] <F_RED> macs don't mind that, but windows might

[01:09] <Lensman> Yah that's what I got, it said I needed an extension but couldn't tell me which one!

[01:09] <senax> I'm trying it on a Mac. No go, and renaming the file makes no difference.

[01:10] <F_RED> works fine here

[01:10] <F_RED> I just downloaded it to a different machine

[01:11] <F_RED> no prob

[01:11] <F_RED> works in osx and os9

[01:11] * vilstef has joined #knownspace

[01:11] <F_RED> qt 7 and qt 6

[01:12] <vilstef> Hi All

[01:12] <senax> No workie on my iBook running QT version 7.1.3.

[01:12] <Lensman> Hi!

[01:12] <senax> Hi gene.

[01:12] <F_RED> gimme your emails and I'l yt rthat

[01:12] <F_RED> try that

[01:12] <Lensman>

[01:12] <F_RED> hey vitlsef

[01:12] <vilstef> I'm at work right now.

[01:12] <senax>

[01:13] <vilstef> Hi Frank

[01:13] <senax> Gene, I bought the Joe Price CD you recommended.

[01:13] <vilstef> Greetings Lensman

[01:13] <senax> Good tunes.

[01:13] <vilstef> Joe does great stuff

[01:14] <vilstef> I'm going to see him doing a show next saturday

[01:15] <Lensman> F_RED aka Harry Redd??

[01:17] <senax> My windows box didn't like the QT files either. Complained about missing files "unfortunately not available on the Quicktime server." Very polite and all.

[01:18] <F_RED> I wonder if you need something non standard to view cubic

[01:20] <F_RED> no, I'm not harry

[01:20] <F_RED> just a take off on 'fred'

[01:20] <F_RED> okay, you should both have 2 emails

[01:21] <Lensman> Sorry, Vilstef said "Hi Frank" and I was trying to figure out from that who Frank was... other than Harry Red.

[01:21] <F_RED> it even plays fine within the letter in mail

[01:21] <F_RED> yeah, I think my name confused vilstef

[01:21] <F_RED> unless fmango is 'frank'

[01:22] <F_RED> and, indeed, he is

[01:22] <F_RED> 'frank mango'

[01:22] <senax> yo

[01:22] <Lensman> Well that gives me a nice see-thru QT window frame, but no image inside it.

[01:23] <vilstef> I was saying hi to Frank Mango B> )

[01:23] <Lensman> Ok thanks Frank, I'll add that moniker to my score card.

[01:24] <senax> I have an icon of a ripped filmstrip. And QT still says "Low memory, can't play" even if it's the only app running.

[01:24] <vilstef> And I knew which Frank he was when I saw the email.

[01:24] <Lensman> er, no, you said "He is" so I still don't know who F_RED is.

[01:25] <F_RED> that would be me. Fred

[01:37] <F_RED> okay, bad juju. I sent it to somebody else and he's getting the low memory error too

[01:38] <F_RED> on a mactel

[01:39] <vilstef> I was about to ask if this was a chat or an oil painting. . .

[01:39] <Lensman> LOL

[01:39] <senax> It's friggin contagious, Fred!

[01:40] <Lensman> I confess I'm surfing the net looking for an "iconic" Buck Rogers spaceship drawing for my planned website.

[01:40] <vilstef> The system I'm on has such a brutal firewall if freezes about 5 sec out of every 20

[01:41] <vilstef> I've read a bunch of email waiting for new comments here

[01:42] * vilstef has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)

[01:42] <senax> LOL. I've been reading other stuff too...don't have anything original to kick the conversation back into gear.

[01:45] * vilstef has joined #knownspace

[01:45] <vilstef> Stupid computers

[01:46] <Lensman> Yah stupid computers, they only do what you tell them to, not what you want them to.

[01:46] <senax> Sometimes not even that.

[01:46] <F_RED> most icon buck rogers ship I know

[01:46] <F_RED>

[01:46] <vilstef> I got booted for some reason

[01:47] <senax> Maybe it's because you're at work? ;-)

[01:48] <vilstef> Could be

[01:48] <Lensman> Is that pic from "Flesh Gordon" ?

[01:48] <vilstef> That spaceship looks like a bent flashlight

[01:48] <F_RED> yep :)

[01:49] <Lensman> :) Not *quite* what I had in mind...

[01:50] <senax> I was thinking brass dildo, but I didn't want to be rude.

[01:50] <vilstef>

[01:50] <vilstef> You can check out the images at that page

[01:51] <senax> That first one looks a lot like this ship:

[01:51] <vilstef> Here's a genuine Buck Rogers toy:

[01:51] <Lensman> Senax: Certainly no ruder than "Flesh Gordon"!

[01:53] <Lensman> I'm impressed with all the BR toys I'm finding on e-bay. But what I want is a drawing from one of the comic strip artists. There are a lot of baroque designs, but I'm looking for a classic, sleek cigar or torpedo shaped finned spaceship. And yes I'm being very picky; this is to go on the front page of the website.

[01:53] <F_RED> okay, can you see any of these? there are small ones at the bottom:

[01:54] <Lensman> ?

[01:54] <F_RED> these are cubic qtvr movies

[01:54] * senax squints

[01:54] <senax> At the bottom of what?

[01:54] <F_RED> I'm wondering if you can see ANY cubic movies

[01:54] <Lensman> Bottom of what?

[01:54] <F_RED> or just not mine

[01:54] <F_RED> bottom of that page

[01:54] <F_RED>

[01:55] <senax> Ohh...

[01:56] <senax> Hang on, gotta get my iBook

[01:58] <senax> I just downloaded the first one. It works fine.

[01:58] <F_RED> okay, well, I'm totally mystified

[01:58] <senax> They work from inside Safari, too.

[01:58] <F_RED> it works on my 9 book or my osx imac

[01:59] <F_RED> but I can't send it to anybody else

[01:59] <senax> Strange.

[01:59] <Lensman> Yah I tried a couple and they both work.

[02:00] <Lensman> Sounds like you've got some sort of non-standard plugin for QuickTime. Maybe a hack or a 3rd party add-on?

[02:01] <senax> They work on my Windows box, too...even in Firefox.

[02:03] <senax> Maybe Fred has Carlos Wu's computer.

[02:05] <Lensman> LOL

[02:05] <F_RED> this movie is 5 years old

[02:05] <F_RED> works on a less than a year old imac

[02:05] <F_RED> how can nobody else see it but me???

[02:08] <Lensman> I just had to reinstall everthing on my computer, so it's possible that my version of QT is too new. But I doubt that's the problem, as others were getting "memory low" errors.

[02:09] <senax> The memory thing is odd. I only got it on a Mac, though, not on Windows.

[02:10] <F_RED> my friend got it on his brand new mactel

[02:11] <Lensman> Was it composed on a Windoz or a Mac or what?

[02:11] <F_RED> mac. old os9g4

[02:12] <F_RED> in desperation I'm emailing it to myself

[02:12] <F_RED> trying to find a way to get it to fail

[02:12] <Lensman> So it doesn't work on my Windoz 98 platform, but it was composed on a Mac and will run on a Mac. There's an obvious clue.

[02:13] <F_RED> no

[02:13] <F_RED> it will only run on MY mac

[02:13] <F_RED> macs

[02:13] <F_RED> I can't send it to anybody else. windows, mac, mactel

[02:13] <senax> Fails on OS X 10.3 and Windows XP here.

[02:14] <F_RED> but I can send it from the old os9 machine it was created on to a brand new osx machine and it works

[02:14] <F_RED> as long as the machines are mine :\

[02:18] <vilstef> pretty strange all around on that

[02:22] <vilstef> Since they're pretending to pay me, I should pretend to work. I'll remain signed on & be back in a while

[02:25] <F_RED> okay, I've sent you both a different cubic movie. this one appears to work on other people's machines.

[02:26] <senax> Yep, that one works fine.

[02:26] <F_RED> boy, that's really odd

[02:26] <F_RED> so there's something wonky with the ringworld movies

[02:26] <F_RED> but I can't imagine what

[02:28] <Lensman> The battleship view works fine here.

[02:28] <F_RED> so it's only ringworld movies others can't see

[02:29] <Lensman> "Tis a puzzlement!"

[02:31] <senax> Think it's time for me to get to bed. Getting late here...and cold in my basement.

[02:32] <senax> See you guys on the list. I don't post often, but I read just about everything.

[02:32] <senax> Bye.

[02:32] * senax has left #knownspace (Kopete 0.10.3 :

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