Chat Log: October 7th 2006

[00:01] <Harry_Redd> You will also be getting hi Fructos corn syrup in some of those. also artifical coloring agents. Those are not good over long terms.

[00:01] <Harry_Redd> Tea is more traditional. :-)

[00:02] <FlyingDragon> I have found that tea is a gentle caffeinne aide, although I do my coffee in the mornings.

[00:02] <FlyingDragon> I have to get up at 5:30!!!!

[00:03] <Harry_Redd> COFFEE!

[00:04] <FlyingDragon> :-)

[00:04] <FlyingDragon> I haven't seen my espresso machine since the fire. I can't imagine I threw it away, just because it might stink.

[00:05] <Harry_Redd> There are relativly inexpensive ones at Wal-Mart.

[00:05] <FlyingDragon> Yeah, but THAT one was a wedding present from Larry Niven.

[00:08] <Harry_Redd> S*I*G*H You should have kept it, put a plaque on it and put it on a shelf.

[00:09] <FlyingDragon> I can't imagine that I would throw it away, but I havne't seen it.

[00:09] <FlyingDragon> I'm hoping it is in one of the boxes I haven't opened, mislabled.

[00:12] <Harry_Redd> The update on peggy is on the way.

[00:12] <FlyingDragon> Okay.

[00:13] <FlyingDragon> I guess I"ll read it tomorrow evening. I"m ready to chase everyone out of my bedroom so I can sleep.

[00:13] <FlyingDragon> 5:30 comes early.

[00:15] <Harry_Redd> Good Idea. I'll be up early too. 10 AM.

[00:16] <FlyingDragon> Wow. WIsh _I_ could sleep that late!!!!

[00:19] <FlyingDragon> g'night

[00:19] * FlyingDragon is now known as Flying_away

[00:20] * Harry_Redd changes topic to 'Welcome to #knownspace!!! First Saturday chat T -1 day'

[00:27] * Harry_Redd has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)

[10:06] * Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)

[11:20] * Fred has joined #knownspace

[11:20] <Fred> just testing

[11:21] <Fred>now testing colors

[11:22] * Lensman has joined #knownspace

[11:22] <Fred>Howdy Lensman

[11:22] <Lensman> Hi Fred!

[11:26] * uberchorn has joined #knownspace

[11:26] * uberchorn waves

[11:26] <Fred>hey ubi

[11:27] <uberchorn> I'm new to ln-l

[11:27] <uberchorn> but i'm a long time irc geek

[11:27] <Fred>we all were at one point or another :)

[11:28] <uberchorn> would anyone care to write my midterm for me?

[11:28] <Fred>it's been decades since I was in school, and I still wake up some mornings in a cold sweat trying to remember if I finished my homework

[11:29] <Fred>so, in a word: "no"

[11:29] <Fred>:)

[11:29] <uberchorn> hehe

[11:29] <uberchorn> I'm a new adjunct professor

[11:29] <uberchorn> so I'm really pulling all of this teacher stuff out of my rear

[11:31] <Lensman> Just remember those old pharts in your department at one time had to do it for the first time, too.

[11:32] <Lensman> And no, I'm not volunteering to do your homework either. Unless your homework is a treatise on Known Space chronology, in which case I've already done it. :)

[11:33] <uberchorn> :)

[11:33] <uberchorn> as adjunct, you are pretty much walking scum on campus

[11:34] <uberchorn> "how dare you say you've got a real job and this is for fun?"

[11:35] <Lensman> Oh! I have a good "subject line" for today's chat: "The Man-Kzin Wars: Think of it as evolution in action"

[11:36] <Lensman> Oh, so "adjunct" means part-time?

[11:36] <uberchorn> What about "unnatural selection" ?

[11:36] <Lensman> Can anyone change the subject line, or only Sean?

[11:37] <Lensman> Fred?

[11:38] <uberchorn> adjunct means you're probably not a phd (i certainly am not) and that you are probably only teaching one class

[11:38] <uberchorn> #knownspace is +nr

[11:38] <uberchorn> if it was +t as well, we could not change the topic

[11:39] <Lensman> I have no idea what that means.

[11:39] <uberchorn> irc channels have specific "modes" which set the behavior of the channel in relation to the people on the chat server

[11:39] <uberchorn> it's not at all interesting :)

[11:40] <Lensman> I've seen the subject line changed here, I just don't know how to do it, and I'm not sure who can do it. Maybe only the guy who has moderator control.

[11:41] <uberchorn> oh

[11:41] <uberchorn> try /topic This is my new topic

[11:41] <uberchorn> the modes on the channel say anyone can change the topic

[11:42] <uberchorn> of course we appear to be on some sort of wonky windows irc server

[11:43] <uberchorn> I was really tempted to post some ascii porn to the list

[11:43] <uberchorn> but I resisted.

[11:45] <Lensman> Oh thanx... AFTER I looked at a looong list of mIRC commands, I come back here and discover you've told me how to do it.

[11:45] <uberchorn> sorry :)

[11:46] <Lensman> Not communicating... really, thanx. I should have waited.

[11:47] <uberchorn> have you read Building Harlequin's Moon?

[11:47] <Lensman> Yes.

[11:47] <uberchorn> I'm 75% through, so far so good

[11:47] <Lensman> You like it?

[11:47] <uberchorn> I reserve judgement until the end...

[11:47] <uberchorn> I really have to hate a book to not finish

[11:48] <uberchorn> The premise takes a certain amount of suspension of disbelief

[11:48] <Lensman> Oh, you said "so far so good" I thought you liked it. As for me... well, let's just say I'm certain I'll never read it again, and if I weren't a Niven "completist" I'd get rid of my copy.

[11:49] <Lensman> LOL! I like the way you so carefully phrased that.

[11:49] <Fred>I don't even SEE the subject line

[11:49] <Fred>no idea how I'd change it

[11:49] <uberchorn> /topic Space Hookers: WELCOME

[11:50] <Lensman> Are you using IRC Fred? If so, it appears the first thing when you join the chat.

[11:50] <Fred>no, I browsered in

[11:50] <uberchorn> This Niven completist approach. I like it in theory, in practice it's not so easy.

[11:50] <Fred>ah - "Welcome to Knownspace!!!'

[11:50] <Lensman> No kidding! There's a lot of uncollected Niven stuff.

[11:50] <uberchorn> Type just "/topic"

[11:50] <Fred>didn't realize that was the topic, thought it was a general greeting

[11:51] <uberchorn> also try "/who *"

[11:51] <Lensman> That *is* a generic greeting. Ususally it has something to do with recent list discussion. Which is why I changed it to:

[11:52] <Lensman> "The Man-Kzin Wars: Think of it as evolution in action". But Uber didn't like my semi-serious approach and changed it to sommat silly.

[11:55] <Lensman> As I said on the list, I couldn't get past the Earthborn stubbornly refusing to use nanotech or A.I. to quickly solve the main problem, yet they were willing to use them *repeatedly* in support of the very long-term, difficult approach they *did* take to solving the problem. Also, as one reviewer noted, it's difficult to believe they'd use their own children like disposable tools and abandon them when they left.

[11:56] <Lensman> The only way I could rationalize it is to say these people are totally insane. Seriously insane. Which means I couldn't really identify with them, at all.

[11:56] <uberchorn> Not even a little? ;)

[11:56] <Lensman> :)

[11:57] <uberchorn> "We really really hate all this technology at Earth, so we've decided to go cook up our own slave world."

[11:59] <Lensman> There were more minor annoyances. Like smashing to small moons together to create a larger moon, yet they were smashed together at such velocity most of the mass was lost. Why, oh why? They have plenty of energy, why not nudge them gently together? Repeat until the mass is sufficient to collapse the aggregate into a sphere, then start building. But NOOOOOO, they took-- what was it-- 60,000 years to do it!

[12:01] <Lensman> I'm truly astounded this book hasn't gotten absolutely scathing reviews. And I know it's not just me-- others on the list have also mentioned the, um, problem with willing suspension of disbelief, and at least one said they were unable to finish it.

[12:03] <Lensman> But okay, now that I've gotten that off my chest-- what are YOUR thoughts on BHM?

[12:03] <uberchorn> hrm

[12:04] <uberchorn> I think this would all make more sense if the 3 spaceships they left Earth with

[12:05] <uberchorn> were actually part of Douglas Adams' world

[12:05] <Fred>BHM is on my Amazon wish list. Sounds like maybe I should lower it's priority rating :D

[12:05] <uberchorn> IIRC, they stumble on the world where all of the lawyers, hairdressers and middle managers have been sent on ahead to colonize the new planet

[12:06] <uberchorn> when in fact they were just tricked into leaving the planet

[12:06] <Lensman> LOL! Ah, why didn't *I* think of that? Why yes, if it's in the Hitchhiker's Guide univere it's *much* easier to swallow!

[12:07] <uberchorn> If the High Council in BHM are known idiots, then yes everything falls into place

[12:08] <uberchorn> I thought the cryo tech was very interesting

[12:08] <uberchorn> You are freeze/killed, then nano "fixes" all the problems when you are thawed.

[12:09] <SeanS> greetings fellas

[12:09] <Lensman> Hi Sean!

[12:09] <Fred>Sean

[12:09] * SeanS is now known as SeanLog

[12:09] <Fred>Log

[12:09] <SeanLog> I am going to come in later from a friends house and needed to change my nick

[12:10] <Lensman> So you just nicked in for a quick change, eh?

[12:10] <SeanLog> pretty much

[12:11] <Lensman> Uber: Yah there certainly was some interesting tech and some interesting ideas in the book. Which made it doubly frustrating for this reader. Grand concept, execrable execution. *Sigh*

[12:12] * Retrieving #knownspace modes...

[12:13] <Lensman> Well I still have one story to read in _Scatterbrain_, the one Niven wrote with Cooper. After reading BHM, I'm not exactly champing at the bit... hopefully that short story will be better.

[12:13] * SeanLog changes topic to 'Welcome to #knownspace!!! The Larry Niven chat channel.'

[12:14] <Lensman> Hmmm... I didn't get that message when *I* changed the subject!

[12:14] <Lensman> So you didn't like my subject, eh?

[12:14] <SeanLog> i think anybody can change it. let me check

[12:14] * Retrieving #knownspace modes...

[12:14] <SeanLog> yeah, anybody can set the topic

[12:14] <Fred>what was the command?

[12:15] <Lensman> Maybe it doesn't show up for the person who changes it.

[12:15] <SeanLog> i use mirc and just right click in the channel and select channel modes

[12:15] <SeanLog> the actual / command i dont know

[12:16] <Lensman> The list of commands I found said "/topic"

[12:16] <Lensman> Which is what Uber said, too.

[12:16] <Fred>slash topic doesn't work here

[12:16] * SeanLog changes topic to 'testing'

[12:17] <Fred>it returns "insufficient parameters"

[12:17] <SeanLog> the command is /topic #knownspace topic

[12:17] <Lensman> Sean: My suggestion for topic is "The Man-Kzin Wars: Think of it as evolution in action"

[12:17] <Fred>"/topic test"

[12:17] <Fred>no idea what the trick is

[12:17] <Lensman> Altho at the moment it's "Deconstructing Harlequin's Moon" :)

[12:17] <SeanLog> the command is /topic #knownspace topic

[12:18] * Fred changes topic to 'fred's shiny topic'

[12:18] <Fred>aha!

[12:18] * Fred changes topic to 'Waiting for Larry'

[12:18] <Lensman> Topic: "Niven Chat: The topic wars!"

[12:18] <Lensman> :)

[12:19] <Fred>we need macros that insert slashtopic at the start of every post

[12:19] <Fred>or, maybe we don't :)

[12:19] <SeanLog> feel free

[12:20] <Fred>oddly, I can slide the topic line text left and right with the mouse

[12:20] <Fred>I have no idea why anybody would build a feature like that

[12:20] <Lensman> Stupid chatroom tricks!

[12:21] <uberchorn> that'd be interesting

[12:21] * Fred changes topic to 'Welcome to #knownspace!!! The Larry Niven chat channel.'

[12:22] <uberchorn> to write a little script that just watches the discussion list, and every time it sees a new subject thread, it updates the topic here with it

[12:22] <uberchorn> I guarantee it'd upset people

[12:22] <uberchorn> it's still a neat idea :)

[12:22] <SeanLog> reckon we ought to have an op till i get back. who wants it

[12:22] <Fred>knot eye

[12:23] <Fred>gonna run errands and come back in a couple hours myself

[12:23] <SeanLog> in 4 years, i have only seen an op needed one time actually

[12:24] <SeanLog> some young kid beinga young kid

[12:24] <Fred>well, we'll just see if we can top that record today, Fred muttered darkly

[12:24] <SeanLog> oh shit

[12:24] <Fred>and hopefully humourously

[12:25] <SeanLog> that would suit your style

[12:25] <Fred>the 'change nick' box doesn't seem to do anything

[12:25] <Fred>I can enter text into it, but it has no affect

[12:25] * Fred is now known as Fred2

[12:25] <Fred2> ah

[12:26] <Fred2> no spaces allowed

[12:26] <Fred2> or hyphens

[12:26] <Fred2> or underscores

[12:26] * Fred2 is now known as F

[12:27] <SeanLog> any questions about the java client should be directed to euan who shows up here as growler

[12:27] <F> or perhaps it only accepts nick changes at random

[12:27] * F is now known as Fred

[12:28] <Fred>slashnick works though

[12:29] * Fred is now known as Fred2

[12:29] <Lensman> Euan = Growler. I need to start a scorecard! Seriously.

[12:29] <Fred2> yeah, it's tough here

[12:30] <Fred2> I don't associate these names with the list names at all

[12:30] <SeanLog> well, i run the irc server, euan handles the chat client and a lot of web programming as does the main web guy mark firestone

[12:30] * Fred2 is now known as Fred

[12:30] <Fred>ahah!

[12:30] <Fred>it won't let me change my nick 2 lines running

[12:30] <Fred>I have to post inbetween

[12:30] <SeanLog> its a 60 second nickserv delay

[12:30] <Fred>gotcha

[12:30] <Fred>which gives the appearance of random acceptance :)

[12:31] <SeanLog> on a client like mirc, nickserv will notify you that you have to wait. dont know how it appears on the java client

[12:32] <Fred>no notification at all. sometimes the nick takes, sometimes the text just vanishes

[12:43] * Fred is now known as Fred-afk

[13:02] * CatPasswd has joined #knownspace

[13:22] <Fred-afk> meow

[13:22] <Lensman> Hi Cat!

[13:22] <CatPasswd> lo

[13:24] <CatPasswd> I've been getting a kick out of the KaCSFFS Space Opera.

[13:24] <CatPasswd> Thanks for posting it

[13:47] <Lensman> Oh! Egoboo! Well I'll have to continue posting more parts-- there are five altogether.

[13:52] <CatPasswd> :)

[14:11] * senax has joined #knownspace

[14:11] <senax> Hello!

[14:15] * Sean- has joined #knownspace

[14:15] <senax> Hi Sean

[14:17] <senax> Is there anybody out there?

[14:20] <CatPasswd> Nobody here but us chickens

[14:22] <senax> I was starting to wonder if something was wrong with my IRC connection

[14:22] <senax> I was on for almost 10 minutes and nobody said a word

[14:25] <CatPasswd> I'm multitasking, and am low on free cpu cycles

[14:26] <CatPasswd> I don't think the chat is supposed to officially start for another hour or two

[14:27] <senax> I see...usually I join it a couple hours later, and I usually get the impression I've missed a large part of it.

[14:28] <senax> I think LN is supposed to show up around 1pm PDT; I guess that's in about an hour and a half...

[14:30] <CatPasswd> If he pops in, that's about the time he usually shows

[14:31] <Sean-> howdy all. i will be in and out

[14:33] <senax> That's what I meant...I think Frank G. mentioned it on the list last week.

[14:34] <senax> I've run across LN here a couple of times, but only overlapped by a few minutes. I'm hoping he'll be here today.

[14:37] <senax> Well..I've got a bit of shopping to do...I'll stop back in an hour or two if I can. Bye!

[14:37] * senax has left #knownspace

[14:38] * Halifax has joined #knownspace

[14:38] * Halifax is now known as Pouncer

[14:43] * Pouncer is now known as Paul

[14:47] <CatPasswd>

[14:48] <CatPasswd> Guess the martians are football fans

[14:54] <Lensman> Sorry I was multitasking too... answering email on the LN list!

[14:54] * Harry_Redd has joined #knownspace

[14:54] <Harry_Redd> HI All.

[14:55] <Lensman> Isn't the official start time noon PST? That's in just 8 minutes or so.

[14:55] <Lensman> Hi Harry!

[14:55] * Lensman changes topic to 'The Man-Kzin Wars: Think of it as evolution in action!'

[14:56] <Harry_Redd> You should \know better than that Lensman. This is FANDOM! Nothing ever starts on time :-]

[14:56] <Lensman> LOL! Yah "It's running on fan time" is an oft-used phrase.

[14:57] <Lensman> Hey, we have a MKW author in here! Is that a first for the Niven chat?

[14:57] <Harry_Redd> Kinda.

[14:57] * Paul laughs

[14:58] <Harry_Redd> How goes it Paul?

[14:58] <Lensman> Which volume is "Destiny's Forge" in?

[14:58] <Paul> I think Larry probably counts as an MKW author.

[14:58] <Paul> Destiny's Forge is it's own volume.

[14:58] <Harry_Redd> Beat me to it Paul.

[14:58] <Lensman> Okay... OTHER than Larry. :)

[14:58] <Paul> And it's going we'll thanks!

[14:58] <Harry_Redd> Glad to hear it.

[14:58] * Paul laughs

[14:59] <Lensman> Oh, is this forthcoming then?

[14:59] <Paul> Oh, it's in bookstores now.

[14:59] <Paul> Launched on the 4th of July.

[15:00] <Lensman> <Lensman proves to all he's clueless!>

[15:00] <Harry_Redd> I'll have to look it up then.

[15:00] <Paul> LOL!

[15:00] <Paul> Well, the trouble is - it IS its own volume.

[15:00] <Paul> All the other MKW books are filed under "Larry Niven"

[15:00] <Paul> So you might not think to look under "Paul Chafe"

[15:01] <Lensman> Mmmm... well, no. You shoulda had a short story added in and then had "Edited by Larry Niven" on the cover. I know there's at least one volume # like that.

[15:01] <Paul> Well, it says "created by Larry Niven" on the cover.

[15:02] <Paul> The biggest thing is that of course Larry is far more famous than I am.

[15:02] <Paul> So at a lot of places you have to order it in.

[15:02] <Harry_Redd> I have connections at 2 local book stores. I'll alert them to putting FORGE with the rest of the MKW stuff, if that's alright with you Paul.

[15:03] <Paul> Of course! Please do!

[15:03] <Harry_Redd> The rest of you please take note.

[15:03] <Lensman> Yah, Vol VI has a fairly long novel _The Heroic Myth of Lieutenant Nora Argamentine_, plus a fairly short story "The Trojan Cat".

[15:04] <Lensman> How many stand-alone MKW novels are there?

[15:04] <Paul> Destiny's Forge and the Children's Hour

[15:05] <Paul> I think that's all.

[15:05] <Lensman> "The Children's Hour" was in Vol II. Was it expanded into a longer story?

[15:06] <Paul> I think there was a sequel in Vol 3 or 4, and then it got turned into a novel.

[15:06] <Lensman> Ok, thanx.

[15:07] <Lensman> So, any WorldCon stories?

[15:07] <Paul> LOL!

[15:08] <Paul> Well, I can tell one if you like...

[15:08] <Lensman> I like.

[15:08] <Harry_Redd> Me too.

[15:08] * Sean- is now known as SeanS

[15:08] <Paul> OK...

[15:08] <Lensman> WB Sean

[15:08] * SeanS has left #knownspace

[15:08] * SeanS has joined #knownspace

[15:08] * SeanS sets mode: +q SeanS

[15:09] * SeanS sets mode: +o Harry_Redd

[15:09] <Paul> Well, to promote DF, Baen had done up a bunch of lovely temporary tattoos.

[15:09] <Lensman> Wow, and Larry accused ME of being a mayfly in here once!

[15:09] <Harry_Redd> Hi Sean. When I tried to log in, I keept getting a message saying "Number of connections Exceeded"

[15:10] <Lensman> That's the first time I've ever heard of anyone being *too* well-connected, Harry! <g>

[15:10] <Harry_Redd> Now now Lensman. Sean has been hiding in the closet... With the server box!

[15:10] <Paul> And so - we did up at the Baen party the "Jungle Room", with copies of the book and these really cute stuffed tigers done up as Kzinti

[15:11] <Lensman> Oh! Oh! I feel an ObNiven coming on...

[15:11] <Paul> So anyway, the tattoos were a hot item..

[15:11] <Paul> How hot I didn't know until I saw some very lovely girls wearing them on their cleavage.

[15:12] <Lensman> Got it!

[15:12] <Lensman> The puppeteer unrolled completely. "Did I hear you call me cute?" "Yeah." She looked up at the orange wall of Speaker-To-Aninials and, "You too," she said generously. "I do not mean to give offense," said the kzin. "But do not ever say that again. Ever." Teela looked puzzled.

[15:12] <uberchorn> Did someone say cleavage?

[15:12] * Paul looks up

[15:12] <Lensman> Oh sorry... thought you were finished Paul.

[15:12] <Paul> Cleavage

[15:12] <Paul> Not at all!

[15:12] <CatPasswd> Looks like someone's having problems connecting to the IRC server

[15:13] <Harry_Redd> Hi Cat.

[15:13] * uberchorn makes a check on to the good chat checklist

[15:13] <uberchorn> s/to //

[15:14] <Paul> Well, the final part is that somewhere out there is a picture of me between these two fangirls with catspaw Destiny's Forge tattoos on their breasts.

[15:14] <Paul> So you simply can't buy advertising like that.

[15:14] <Harry_Redd> G*R*E*A*T Paul.

[15:14] <Lensman> LOL! Nope.

[15:14] <Paul> Or rather - you can, but it's not usually legal to...

[15:15] <Paul> Plus the guy who'd shaved his head to be Ming the Merciless wore his on his forehead - classic!

[15:16] <SeanS> will run to the house and check on the connection issue

[15:17] <Harry_Redd> tHANKS sEAN.

[15:17] <Paul> There, that's my worldcon story.

[15:17] <Harry_Redd> Current local users: 10 Max: 10

[15:17] <Harry_Redd> Current global users: 10 Max: 10

[15:17] <CatPasswd> yeah

[15:17] <CatPasswd> looks like this is all that's going to be able to get in

[15:17] <Lensman> Well that's a problem alright.

[15:18] <Lensman> Sean could at least kick Flying_away off, and remove one of his two IDs

[15:19] * Flying_away was kicked by Harry_Redd

[15:19] <Lensman> Oh! Harry has THE POWER! <g>

[15:20] <Harry_Redd> Sean needs one to Log the chat and one to chat with. Anyway, It's his Server, so he can do what he wants with it.

[15:20] <CatPasswd> Well, that gets him out of the channel, but he's still connected to the server. Have to do a /kill

[15:20] <Harry_Redd> Yupper. THE LIGHTENING IS IN MY HANDS!

[15:21] <Lensman> Well it looks like my hopes to ask Larry some questions to settle points for my Chronology will be dashed. Larry won't be able to get in if he tries, looks like.

[15:22] <Paul> You could always just email...

[15:22] <Lensman> Yah, altho I dunno how often Larry looks at "unsolicited" e-mail.

[15:23] <Paul> Well - more than he looks at unsent mail, I'll wager...

[15:23] <Lensman> :)

[15:24] <Paul> But to be sure, I sent my first story by snailmail unsolicited and had an answer back (snailmail) in under 2 weeks.

[15:24] <uberchorn> if need be, we can fall back on irc://

[15:24] <uberchorn> that won't have any user/speed issues

[15:25] <Lensman> I was thinking maybe we should move to another chat room, I've got one too that we can use, but how will those coming here know where to go?

[15:25] <uberchorn> the topic

[15:25] <CatPasswd>

[15:25] <Lensman> Yah, I was thinking that too.

[15:25] <CatPasswd> small irc network run by some of my co-workers

[15:25] <CatPasswd> then just /join #knownspace

[15:25] <CatPasswd> :)

[15:26] <Paul> Leave the server up with a title that says "go to"

[15:26] <Lensman> If Sean can't get it fixed then I suggest we do just that.

[15:27] <CatPasswd> If they can't get in here, they won't be able to read the channel subject. :)

[15:27] <uberchorn> back in the day, i used to host for scads of Farscapers

[15:27] <Lensman> Well I'm assuming if we all leave then someone else can get in here long enuff to read the subject line, at least. No?

[15:28] * uberchorn nods

[15:28] <Lensman> The collective noun for Farscape fans is "scads"?

[15:28] <Lensman> "A scads of Farscapers"

[15:28] <Harry_Redd> Good idea

[15:29] <Lensman> Okay, weak joke... YOUR turn.

[15:29] <uberchorn> ok ok, a drenload :)

[15:29] <Harry_Redd> Might I suggest, for FARSCAPE Fans the term MEAT?

[15:30] <Lensman> A smegful of Red Dwarfers!

[15:30] <Harry_Redd> If we have to Relocate there, I'll send an alert to that effect. But we'll be missing the Fen who join on the JAVA link(s).

[15:30] * SpaceCowboy has joined #knownspace

[15:30] <Harry_Redd> Hi SC.

[15:31] <SeanLog> reset max connections to 100. thanks for pointing that out frank

[15:31] <uberchorn> phew

[15:31] <CatPasswd> yay

[15:31] <Harry_Redd> So much for the contingency plans. ;-]

[15:31] <Lensman> Thank goodness! And Sean too!

[15:31] <uberchorn> Can I perhaps suggest a topic of brief discussion?

[15:31] * seantest has joined #knownspace

[15:32] * seantest has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)

[15:32] <Paul> Go for it

[15:32] <uberchorn> ok!

[15:32] <Lensman> Sure

[15:32] * FrGeek has joined #knownspace

[15:32] <uberchorn> Hypothetical situation: There is intelligent life on other planets, and they have visited our planet.

[15:32] <Harry_Redd> Hi FrGeek.

[15:33] <FrGeek> Hi all, finally made it!

[15:33] <Lensman> And built the Pyramids, okay... <g>

[15:33] <uberchorn> Question: Would they refer to our planet as A) Earth B) Terra C) Sol-3 or D) The planet were you can get that awesome stuff called BACON?

[15:33] <Paul> LOL!

[15:33] <Harry_Redd> You know me Sean. It's all in making the Niven Chat work.

[15:33] <Lensman> Ah, "Dirt". According to one of the Stainless Steel Rat books, anyway.

[15:34] <uberchorn> I can work myself into a tizzy arguing for D.

[15:34] <Harry_Redd> Why would Aliens build Pyramids when they can get the Locals to do it using the BFMS method?

[15:34] <Paul> I think the answer is E) Before

[15:34] <FrGeek> They woudl call it "The place we dump our toxic waste" The stuff known to humans as tufu.

[15:34] <Lensman> Okay, I'll bite: What's BFMS?

[15:35] * oliver has joined #knownspace

[15:35] <oliver> Hi

[15:35] <Harry_Redd> When we find them Geek, We'll get even by covering the surface of their planet to the depth of 4 t with High Frcutos Corne Syrup!

[15:35] <Lensman> The floodgates have opened!

[15:35] <Harry_Redd> BFMS = Brute Force, Mass Stupidity.

[15:36] <SpaceCowboy> HI< ALL> Sorry, the page booted me three times. Hi. Harry! How're you doin?

[15:36] <Harry_Redd> Trying to cope.

[15:36] <Lensman> There were only 10 channels open, so that's why you were getting booted. Sean performed some Server Magic, so now there's room for all.

[15:37] <SpaceCowboy> Anything I can do, let me know.

[15:38] <SpaceCowboy> Thank you, Sean!

[15:38] <SpaceCowboy> It's still slower than pushing molasses uphill with a rope.

[15:39] <Lensman> SC: Are you on JavaChat?

[15:40] <Lensman> Being slow is why I switched to mIRC. Altho now that I'm using broadband that prolly isn't as important.

[15:40] <SpaceCowboy> Yes, Lens ... haven't instituted the IRC bit yet. (Hi, BTW...)

[15:40] <SpaceCowboy> Hey, it's getting better.

[15:40] <Lensman> And Hello! to all you not-so-early-comers.

[15:41] <Lensman> SC: Yah, the Java client does that. Slow for awhile then it speeds up. At least that was my usual experience.

[15:41] <Harry_Redd> Sean must be D-Loading headers again. ;-)

[15:41] * Tanada has joined #knownspace

[15:41] <Harry_Redd> Hi Tanada.

[15:42] <Lensman> Welcome Tanada

[15:42] <SpaceCowboy> brb ... caffeine beckons.

[15:42] <Tanada> Ha8il Hail Frank, how's Peggy?

[15:42] <Tanada> Hi lnes

[15:42] <Tanada> geeze Hi LENS

[15:42] <Tanada> my fingers hate me today

[15:42] <Lensman> :) Thats okay I can parse Typo! :)

[15:43] <Harry_Redd> I don't think I posted an update this morning. She responds to pain, but otherwise, no change. She was moaning a lot so now, she's under a mild sedative.

[15:43] <Lensman> "I speak jive!" (Any "Airplane!" fans here?)

[15:43] <Paul> LOL!

[15:44] <Harry_Redd> I not only Read Tlypo, I Speak it!

[15:44] <Tanada> LOL good one, but you need Mrs Cleaver to help you out

[15:44] <Paul> I don't know if I'm a fan, but I've seen it a bunch

[15:44] * Fred-afk is now known as Fred

[15:44] <FrGeek> We are thinking of her and you Frank

[15:45] <Tanada> Still got you both in our prayers Frank

[15:45] <Harry_Redd> Thanks.

[15:45] <Lensman> My best wishes, FWIW

[15:45] <Tanada> Anyone else catching Jerico? I am really enjoying it, has very much a Panic In The Year Zero feel to it

[15:45] <SeanS> not downloading headers

[15:45] <oliver> I hope she'll get better soon

[15:46] <Lensman> Jerico? No, when and what channel?

[15:46] <Harry_Redd> I will be posting a Thank You message about Peg when I can deal better with things.

[15:46] <Lensman> Battlestar Galactica finally had a (two!) new episode last nite.

[15:46] <Harry_Redd> I've caught a few Episodes.

[15:47] <Fred>sort of struck me as Hogan's Heroes in space without the funny

[15:47] <Harry_Redd> I Liked the Dr Who Episode. Good stuff that.

[15:47] <FrGeek> Lately been watching Eureka and Heroes. Oh and of course BSG

[15:47] <Fred>yes, Dr. Who was quite enjoyable

[15:47] <Fred>Eureka just got renewed

[15:48] <Harry_Redd> HEROS is GOOD! I hope the quality stays as high as whaat I've seen so far.

[15:48] <uberchorn> I think Cleopatra 2525 is still the pinnacle of TV Scifi

[15:48] <Fred>heh

[15:48] <Harry_Redd> Eureka was only suppose to be a Summer series. I'm glad to see it continue.

[15:48] <Tanada> Jerico is CBS Wednesdays at 8 PM

[15:48] <Fred>always an argument to be made for the final season of Earth Final Conflict

[15:48] <Fred>as the pinnacle

[15:49] <uberchorn> :)

[15:49] <Tanada> or you can view it online from the link if you have a high speed connection

[15:50] <SpaceCowboy> I've heard good things about the "Star Trek Enhanced" project, but don't get TV here.

[15:50] <Fred>oh, it's horrid

[15:50] <uberchorn> I hope that Jericho travels a bit timeline wise

[15:50] <Lensman> I haven't really fully assimilated the idea of broadband yet. It never occurred to me to watch a TV episode online.

[15:50] <Tanada> TOS enhanced is on at 2 AM here and I don't have a recorder any more

[15:50] <Fred>it's in the crime against humanity category (trek enhanced)

[15:50] <uberchorn> I'm most interested in how it compares to something like Alas, Babylon or Footfall

[15:50] <FrGeek> I have no idea how EFC lasted so long. and how consistently got worse and worse. It jumpe dteh shark several times.

[15:51] <Fred>that's what tribune did to their shows

[15:51] * TreeHugr has joined #knownspace

[15:51] <Tanada> Lens its great, they take out 15 minutes of commercials but leave in about 5 for the show so it lasts 45 minutes instesad of an hour

[15:51] <Tanada> hi TH

[15:51] <uberchorn> FrGeek, there is jumping the shark, and then there is lying down and mating with the shark

[15:51] <FrGeek> LOL

[15:51] <Lensman> But if it something I *really* wanna watch, like BG, I'll go down to the family room and watch it on the home theatre system! Dolby Digital 5.1 with 5 audiophile grade speakers incl. 2 subwoofers beats the heck out of computer speakers any day! (Yah I'm bragging, and so what's your point?) :)

[15:51] <Harry_Redd> KERROKI is a Crime Against Humanit. STE couldn't possably as that!

[15:52] <Fred>Kerroki?

[15:52] <Tanada> Alas Babylon is brought up a lot on the Usenet Jericho groups but i havve never read it

[15:52] <SpaceCowboy> Karaoke? (Japanese for "Can't carry tune in bucket...")

[15:53] <Harry_Redd> Sorry. As Possably as BAD as kerrioki.

[15:53] <uberchorn> Tanada, Pat Frank - 1959 or so. You need it to round out a deeply felt sense of angst.

[15:53] <Lensman> Well I was most definitely in the "Crime against humanity" camp for the jazzed-up Classic Trek... until I actually watched an episode. It's okay, really. They haven't "jazzed up" the FX like the Star Wars Special Editions.

[15:53] <Fred>no

[15:53] <Fred>they did it worse

[15:53] <Tanada> So are Kzinti still the hot topic?

[15:54] <Harry_Redd> Kinda.

[15:54] <TreeHugr> I still haven't caught the new Trek - Saturday afternoon is a bad time for me.

[15:54] <Fred>most places it's on at 3am

[15:54] <SpaceCowboy> They *did* have to clean up and digitize the original 35mm film to make it compatible with HiDef ... this is a good thing.

[15:54] <TreeHugr> Speaking of the Kzinti . . . just finishing ADG again . . .

[15:54] <FrGeek> Is it true Trek enchanced added a Computer generated alien know it all teenager into the cast?

[15:54] <uberchorn> new Trek?

[15:54] <Fred>except the transfers are hideous

[15:55] <Paul> Cherry Trek?

[15:55] <Lensman> Actually we haven't touched the kzinti topic, despite my changing the topic thread.

[15:55] <Fred>they shifted everything into the cyan in an ill adivised attempt to make the gold shirts chartreause

[15:55] <TreeHugr> The new improved classic Trek.

[15:55] <SpaceCowboy> LOL, FrGeek! Fortunately, no. (They waited until TNG to do that...)

[15:55] <Lensman> And who is ADG when he's at home?

[15:55] <FrGeek> Oh yes, very intersting Kzinti threads on the list.

[15:56] <TreeHugr> I finally figured out what I don't like about ADG, and it's not the plot.

[15:56] <FrGeek> ADG? A Darker Geometry?

[15:56] <TreeHugr> The Kzin are not big housecats, but much of their behaviour in ADG is that of giant mutant cats.

[15:56] <Lensman> Speaking only for myself, I try not to argue in here, so I hadn't brought up the Kzinti stuff. Of course if we can discuss it without resorting to use of variable swords...

[15:57] <TreeHugr> Well, I did bring a flashlight laser.

[15:57] <TreeHugr> Just in case . . .

[15:57] <Fred>here's a page I made

[15:57] <Fred>

[15:58] <uberchorn> So Kzinti are nothing like that old CSI episode with the furry convention?

[15:58] <FrGeek> I am sure we can a calm discussion, so long as you are rational admit you are wrong ;)

[15:58] <Lensman> "A Darker Geometry"? Well I certainly don't like the Outsiders as potential Berserker clones. Ick.

[15:58] <TreeHugr> ???

[15:58] <Harry_Redd> Re: Kzin Genetics: I suspect that the Puppeteers have had Extended Life, Gene manipulation and a stable society for so long that, they don't know how long it takes to make a genetic change in a non-Puppeteer or "Wild" alien population. Thoughts?

[15:58] <Paul> Hmm - I was just putting up a post about A Darker Geometry

[15:58] <Lensman> There was other stuff I didn't like about ADG altho at the moment I don't remember what it was.

[15:59] <Paul> The puppeteers use a second species to gestate their young...

[15:59] <Fred>I remember Nessus saying that humans were almost as long lived as Puppeteers, and wondering how long lived Louis Wu era humans really are

[15:59] <FrGeek> I loathe ADG because it tried to rewrite the whole backstory to the universe- I definatly in the "breaking the playgroud equipment" categlory.

[15:59] <Fred>yes

[16:00] <TreeHugr> Most people don't seemt to like the whole history-of-the-universe bit. Gives away too much that has always been a pleasant mystery.

[16:00] <Paul> So their payoff matrixes are very different, genetically speaking.

[16:00] <Harry_Redd> I don't buy the Outsiders as being Genecidal at all. Merchants never want to Kill a market for their wears.

[16:00] <Lensman> Fred: How can I put this kindly? You seem to have some very strong opinions about Star Trek. Of course you're entitled to them, but I don't think many of us share those opinions.

[16:01] <TreeHugr> I can accept the ADG plot to a point, because Larry liked it enough to let it be published. I don't consider it canon, and neither does Larry, I believe.

[16:01] <FrGeek> Maybe they have wild puppetter DNA but I doubt they keep live samples. Seeing them actually kicking and attacking would be far too scary.

[16:01] <Fred>did Larry actually approve it before publicaton?

[16:01] <TreeHugr> I did like the various factionsof outsiders diea - some deal with warmlife, most don't.

[16:01] <Lensman> FrGeek: THANK YOU!! You have put your finger on why I hate ADG.

[16:02] <TreeHugr> I believe no MKW story gets published without Larry's okay.

[16:02] <Fred>really?

[16:02] <Lensman> That's a point I was making to Paul quite recently (today?) on the list. I do NOT think Larry considers all the MKW stories to be "canon".

[16:02] <Harry_Redd> <Paul> The puppeteers use a second species to gestate their young... I really don't see that as a reproduction stratigy for a Herd Animal. I remember that Puppeteers can be less than forthcoming with the truth.

[16:02] <Paul> Larry approves EVERYTHING that goes into the MKW

[16:02] <TreeHugr> I seem to recall him saying he'd turned down several for going too far, etc.

[16:02] <Lensman> There's a difference between Larry approving it for publication and saying it's "canon".

[16:02] <Paul> He is quite stringent.

[16:02] <Tanada> That sums up my problem with ADG as well, they are not just aliens, they are hyper powerful aliens who toy with warmlife for amusement only

[16:03] <FrGeek> Remeber heard animals foret intermigle a herd of another species

[16:04] <oliver> Is there evidence the outsiders are traders for a living or is that just a way to interact?

[16:04] <Harry_Redd> Only when there is no basis for competition Geek.

[16:04] <Paul> You can argue over whether a particular story is "canon" or not, but NOTHING goes out without his detailed review, and if he doesn't like something, it just doesn't go in. Period.

[16:04] <Tanada> Herd animals often intermingle around water holes and such, but tend not to stay mixed when under attack

[16:04] <TreeHugr> I believe Larry has said something like, they're canon unless he needs them not to be, to write his own story.

[16:04] <Lensman> I don't see any problem with herd animals developing a symbiotic relationship with another species. There are a LOT of symbiotic relationships in Earth's ecosystem, some quite strange and wonderful.

[16:04] <Paul> Well, bison and buffalo cluster around injured animals to protect them when under attack...

[16:05] <Lensman> Yes there's evidence the Outsiders are traders. Look at the very tail end of _A Gift from Earth_.

[16:05] <Tanada> Personally I want the protozoan symbiot from AGFE

[16:05] <FrGeek> Harry true, but I picture the "females" as a large treetop top grazer, and puppeters as grass eaters.

[16:05] <Harry_Redd> I suspect Trade has become the primary contact point with Outsiders. Also that they know of many other racecs unknown to Known Space.

[16:05] <Paul> Known Space is really just a tiny little dot in the galaxy.

[16:06] <Harry_Redd> FrGeek, I pucture them as Puppeteers that we don't recognize as Female when we see them. :-)

[16:06] <Tanada> The Outsiders are interesting because their primary goal is to seek ever more knowledge, and with hyperwave what one Outsider trader knows they can all access at will or need.

[16:07] <Fred>how do we know that's their goal?

[16:07] <Tanada> I think LN would do us all a service if her reset to the first MK war and erased the hyperdrive. Have the Outsiders sell gravity polarizers to WeMadeIt and give man equal footing in the MK wars.

[16:07] <Paul> LOL! Point, treeHugr

[16:07] <Harry_Redd> Yuppr. Hmm, I wonder what the Outsider price would be for knowlege of unknown races would be, and if the Puppeteers paid that price when they left?

[16:07] <Lensman> I think the Puppeteers and the Kzinti are Larry's commentary on the value of intelligence. Puppeteers seem to be smarter than Humans, Kzinti not as smart. And Thrintun not very smart at all. Puppeteers NEED to be smarter than predators; Kzinti don't NEED to be as smart 'cuz they're so fearsome.

[16:07] <Tanada> slower than light universes are more interesting to me

[16:07] <FrGeek> Ah, i see your problem, they are identical then they woudl not likely intermigle.

[16:08] <Paul> Ah well - lions are smarter than wildebeast!

[16:08] <Paul> But the primary driver of smartness - I think - is sexual selection of intelligence.

[16:09] <Tanada> Fred, Bey and Elephant traded info with the Outsiders, Bey states pretty clearly IIRC that the Outsiders are information traders foirst and foremost

[16:09] <Fred>that's their line of work

[16:09] <Fred>doesn't mean it's their goal

[16:09] <Tanada> Their goal is to follow Starseeds ;)

[16:09] <Fred>lol, yes, could well be

[16:10] <TreeHugr> There's a point - no starseeds mentioned in ADG. Why not?

[16:10] <Harry_Redd> Right on Fred. What we KNOW about any other (intelligent) species is only what they tell us.

[16:10] <Fred>information trading might just be a hobby, or a way to amass the credits to afford to follow Starseeds

[16:10] <FrGeek> Maybe the outsider/starseed relation is the same as as Greatful Dead and the Deadheads?

[16:10] <Lensman> You could argue that Bey doesn't know what the heck he's talking about. But the end of AGFE seems to be told from the Outsiders' POV. They're certainly not an omnipotent race with genocidal thoughts there!

[16:10] <Tanada> Het Harry, we can also observe and draw our own conclusions LOL

[16:10] <Paul> LOL FrGeek!

[16:11] <Harry_Redd> Conclusions colored by what we have been told.

[16:11] * allyngibson has joined #knownspace

[16:11] <Fred>When I was listening to that (rather painful) Ringworld audio novel

[16:11] <FrGeek> Hi ally

[16:11] <Tanada> Agree Lens, if they were genocidal we wouldn't be around to know it. Destroying a planet for a species with their technology is no sweat

[16:12] <Tanada> Hi allyn

[16:12] <allyngibson> hey peeps :)

[16:12] <Fred>I was wondering why the Outsiders were basking with their tails in shadows

[16:12] <Fred>couldn't they accomplish the same thing by, like, wearing pants?

[16:12] <Lensman> Tan: Yah. So I respectfully disagree with Paul when he says all the MKW stories are canon just 'cuz Larry approved them for publication.

[16:12] <Paul> Indeed, destroying a planet with OUR technology isn't too hard...

[16:13] <Paul> Ah well, I don't say what's canonical - that's for Larry to say.

[16:13] <Harry_Redd> Consider this for example. The Outsiders we have met are only those in a very narrow cone with the vertex originationg at the Core. One would suspect Starseeds to be destributed throught the Galaxy. Are there Outsiders there too?

[16:13] <Lensman> Fred: It's an artistic thing, doncha know? Aesthetics forbid anything so gauche as wearing pants.

[16:13] <Paul> I just say - he very rigourously vets what's published.

[16:13] <FrGeek> Good question, but consider they bought Beys account of teh core explosion i woudl have to say no

[16:13] <Tanada> exactly, we know the technology to build a fission-fusion-fission device of any arbitrarily large size we choose. 100 GT should pasturize us pretty good

[16:14] <Fred>Frank, they wouldn't be outsiders if they didn't hang around, you know, outside :)

[16:14] <oliver> Putting the tail into the shadow possibly predates technology

[16:14] <Lensman> FrG: No, they valued Bey's account only because it was from an alien POV. They already knew about the Core explosion, they said that.

[16:14] <Paul> Even without nuclear weapons, the Hummer H2 is doing a good job of trashing the world all by itself.

[16:14] <Harry_Redd> Paul, I beg to differ. We could (maybe) destroy life on a planet, but destroy the planet? Man, a Planet is an awefull lot of Rock, and that's just the surface!

[16:14] <FrGeek> Lens good point

[16:15] <Paul> LOL! Point given - I confine my ambitions to the destruction of civilization-as-we-know-it

[16:15] <TreeHugr> The tail-in-shadow thing was to establish a temp difference between the two ends of the Outsider, wasn't it? For energy?

[16:15] <Fred>yes

[16:15] <Lensman> And yah, the Outsiders have had to have known about the Core explosion for a LONG time. In fact, _Protector_ suggests the Core explodes periodically, so the Outsiders prolly think of it as "normal". I strongly suspect they're either immune to that radiation or have excellent procection.

[16:16] <FrGeek> Yes, a bomb of about 20 Gt woudl destroy all human life, but it woudl not come close to destroying all life, much less destroy the earth

[16:16] <Fred>then why did they pay a million stars for information on the core explosion?

[16:16] <Paul> They'd have to be immune to hard cosmic radiation...

[16:16] <allyngibson> I'd think they'd be hardened against the radiation--given that the Outsiders spend -all- their time bathed in hard radiation :)

[16:16] <Paul> So what's the core explosion but a lot of hard cosmic rays?

[16:17] <oliver> they learned about how the PP use quantum II

[16:17] <Paul> Well - the outsiders don't use hyperdrive - maybe they don't use hyperwave either.

[16:17] <Lensman> I don't think we have the tech to destroy earth, no. Not even to disrupt one of the large techtonic plates, let alone the whole planet. A hurricane dwarfs the energy output of our largest nukes.

[16:17] <FrGeek> And planton put out more CO2 than all teh cars combines, so maybe we can blame teh planton for armageddon... hey maybe taht their plan- decendances of the Green Maurader.

[16:18] <Paul> Uhhhm - don't plankton take up CO2? As part of photosynthesis?

[16:18] <Paul> Phytoplankton of course...

[16:18] <Lensman> Fred: Re Outsiders/ Core/ Bey: Go back and read "Flatlander" again! It's made very clear why they pay him.

[16:18] <FrGeek> ALLY But they are out near neptune or teh oort cloud radiation is much lowere there.

[16:19] <Fred>I read Flatlander a few days ago.

[16:19] <Fred>Why, if they consider the core explosion normal, and are immune to it, would they pay for information about it?

[16:19] <FrGeek> Paul not all plankton, besides at night they have to do soemthing. Its either make CO2 or follow teh grateful dead ;)

[16:19] <Tanada> zooplankton put out CO2, phytoplanton absorb it

[16:20] <Lensman> I suspect they can use both hyperwave and hyperdrive when they *need* too. They don't use hyperdrive usually 'cuz it's "vulgar". That's a quote.

[16:20] <Lensman> I thought plankton were tiny animals, not plants?

[16:20] <FrGeek> They also have something "far better than hyperdrive" also a quote

[16:20] <Harry_Redd> A much more "dangerous" greenhouse gas is Water Vapor. Trees, grass ect put out much more than Petro Vehicles do. And if we go to H2 Even MORE Water Vapor will be emmitted. So much for the "Green Solution.

[16:21] <allyngibson> FrGeek--it's "Allyn" -not- "Ally" ;)

[16:21] <Paul> Phytoplankton are plants, zooplankton are animals...

[16:21] <Harry_Redd> Plankton is actually both.

[16:21] <Tanada> Lens, thats because we went from thinking bigger is better to more accurate is better. The USSR Tsar Bomba had an expected yield of 150-175 MT of force, the average nowadays is 150 KT

[16:21] <Lensman> Fred: Then you should remember! :) And I already answered why-- scroll up.

[16:21] <Paul> But I'm reasonably sure that phytoplankton are in fact the single largest CO2 fixing biomass on earth.

[16:21] <Fred>yawn

[16:21] <FrGeek> Sorry Allyn. You have permission to misspell my name to make it even. ;)

[16:22] <FrGeek> (Thought it was Ally N Gibson sorry)

[16:22] <Harry_Redd> Truly Paul.

[16:22] <allyngibson> no worries, mate :)

[16:22] <Lensman> FrG: Oh, where's the "much better than hyperdrive" reference, please? please??

[16:23] <oliver> plancton with respect to CO2 is neutral except for the carbonate shells sinking to the bottom or oceans under anoxic conditions

[16:23] <Paul> But anyway, the Outsiders could certainly mess up the planet itself and not just the ecosystem.

[16:23] <Tanada> Frgreek but they travel intersteller space at .8 LS, thats as hard a radiation as you could want

[16:23] <Harry_Redd> Communication via Electron Entanglement perhaps?

[16:23] * bandersnatch has joined #knownspace

[16:23] <Lensman> It's true that most of the CO2 is converted to free oxygen in the ocean, not by land plants.

[16:23] <Fred>anybody with a decent drive can mess up a planet pretty good

[16:24] <oliver> They can hit a planet with an asteroid at near lightspeed

[16:24] <FrGeek> I read an interseting quot ethat the coveremnet kept the price of lithium hydroxide a secret, not becuas eit was so expensive, but becuas eit was so cheap. They did not want peopel to know that the differnce between a 10 MT bomb and a 100MT bomb was a few cents.

[16:24] <Harry_Redd> Hi Bander.

[16:24] <Fred>starship troopers 'almost' got it right

[16:24] <Paul> LOL!

[16:24] <Tanada> Fred that was my whole point, if you take a 1 ton object and impact it at .99 LS it is going to mess things up a LOT

[16:24] <Harry_Redd> Moon is a Harsh Mistress got the Yield Figures right.

[16:25] <Fred>right tanada

[16:25] <FrGeek> Lenman you would ask. I don't remeber.

[16:25] <Fred>of course starship troopers were tossing rocks at thousands of times lightspeed

[16:25] <Fred>you'd think a rock going that fast would be 'very bad' for you

[16:25] <Fred>:)

[16:25] <Tanada> True Lens, the ocea 'green zone' is over 100 feet deep

[16:25] <Lensman> If they could accellerate Elephant's ship up to near lightspeed in, what was it, just a few seconds? Then they could certainly send a sizable asteriod whizzing in at near lightspeed and destroy any planet. Yah. But contrary to what ADG says, I just don't believe the Outsiders are genocidal.

[16:26] <SpaceCowboy> FrG: You're talking about the material used for C)2 scrubbers in US spacecraft? I wasn't aware it had catalytic properties in nuclear detonations...

[16:26] <Harry_Redd> A Relativly small object (10 Kt mass) traveling at those speeds would most likely split this planet open.

[16:26] <Paul> Lithium deuteride is the primary fusion component of fusion bombs

[16:27] <oliver> spaceship scrubbers is LiO2

[16:27] <Tanada> Spacecowboy, LiH is fusion fuel, wrap it around a fission bomb and when the fission bomb explodes it heats and compresses the fusion fuel and irradiates it with neutrons. BOOM!

[16:27] <Paul> Neutron flux from the plutonium sparkplug assembly fission lithium into tritium, which then fuses with the deuterium.

[16:27] <SpaceCowboy> ^CO2^

[16:27] <bandersnatch> Upps, got my ear bitten by the wife, greetings!

[16:27] <bandersnatch> .

[16:28] <Harry_Redd> -k-

[16:28] <Paul> the D-T reaction liberates fast neutrons which serve to fission the U-238 bomb wrapper.

[16:28] * uberchorn boggles. I am way too used to chatting with Farscape caliber superfans.

[16:28] <Paul> ?? Is that a good thing or a bad thing??

[16:28] <Tanada> Actually paul look up Castle Bravo, it used plain old hydrogen and Lithium and yeilded 15 MT....when they were expecting 5 MT

[16:28] <uberchorn> Oh, it's a great thing.

[16:28] <SpaceCowboy> Wow, thanks all! I jes loves dis joint, so much to learn ...

[16:29] <Harry_Redd> the D-T reaction liberates fast neutrons which serve to fission the U-238 bomb wrapper. /// Provided there is any left by that time

[16:29] <Lensman> Uber: I know a guy who says literary SF clubs put the average intelligence of MENSA to shame. And he speaks from experience, having been to a few MENSA meetings.

[16:29] <TreeHugr> He's right.

[16:29] <Paul> Castle Bravo used Li-7, which was expected to be inert...

[16:29] <Fred>at least MENSA finally busted Sharon Stone

[16:30] <Paul> which boosted the yeild - but I'm pretty sure it was Li-7 Deuteride...

[16:30] <Lensman> I thought Sharon already had a pretty good bust...

[16:30] <Tanada> Frank, you can also use a fissile wrapper like U-235 or Pu-239 and boost the yeild about 55%

[16:30] <SpaceCowboy> I didn't want to spend the money for the silly yellow pin. ;)

[16:30] <Harry_Redd> My take is; if the people in MENSA were so smart, they woudn't spend so much time talking about how smart they are. ;-)

[16:30] <Paul> but - I've been wrong before!

[16:30] <FrGeek> Harry i agree totally

[16:30] <Fred>I remember being interested when Playbody did "The Women of MENSA" thinking I'd get to see hot smart women

[16:31] <Fred>and being horrified that the quotes were just as vacant as any other pictorial

[16:31] <Harry_Redd> Thanks Tanada. Not a Neuclar Weaponeer, but I know a ffew.

[16:31] <Fred>this is of course before I figured out that the quotes are all written by airhead editors anyway

[16:31] <Tanada> Castle Bravo was suppossed to be a test to see how important it was to seperate out all of the Li-7 from the Li-6 fusion fuel, they were shocked to learn that Li-7 is also a good fusion fuel

[16:31] <Lensman> Fred: I wouldn't be surprised.

[16:32] * Paul nods

[16:32] <Fred>"Fire good. Tree pretty"

[16:32] <bandersnatch> whats with the farscape fans: Do they have different vocabulary ROMS?

[16:32] <SpaceCowboy> "Turn-ons: Bikini briefs, moonlight strolls, Grand Unified Field Theory ..."

[16:32] <Tanada> lol

[16:32] <Harry_Redd> I dated a Miss April for a bit. Science Fiction Fan and she also did not have much of a posative opinion of MENSA.

[16:32] <Lensman> LOL!

[16:32] <Fred>lol, I wish

[16:32] * Paul laughs

[16:33] <FrGeek> "I like sunshine long walks on the beach, and reading satelliite downloads in binary..."

[16:33] <uberchorn> There are a lot of farscape fans who normally would watch a soap opera, but then found out that they like lasers too.

[16:33] <Paul> Geek girls rock!

[16:33] <TreeHugr>1100111001110

[16:33] <Tanada> ow TH that had to be the WORST episode of TNG

[16:33] <Fred>"name a bad epidoe of TNG"

[16:33] * Paul directs the attention of the audience to

[16:33] <Fred>LOL

[16:33] <Lensman> Well of course I dunno exactly what was meant by the reference to Farscape fans. But having spent a brief time chatting on the Star Wars chatroom at AOL back in the day, it seems most media fans are young and uneducated. At least uneducated in the sciences.

[16:33] <Fred>tanada beat me

[16:34] <Harry_Redd> Most NivenListers have very broad interestests. Where as "Media" Fans are usually quite narrow and actually BELIEVE the science they see on the shows.

[16:34] <Fred>yes

[16:34] <SpaceCowboy> Actually, it was "11001001" ...

[16:34] <Fred>and 'Masks' was WAY worse

[16:34] <Lensman> Name a bad episode of TNG? That's easy, just name any episode...

[16:34] <Tanada> * groan

[16:34] <Fred>as dumb as 11001001 was

[16:34] <Paul> Nah, the one where Picard got turned into a child was good.

[16:34] <Fred>their entire problem was they didn't know any non magnetic storage options?

[16:34] <FrGeek> Worst? Classic trek- "hippies in space"

[16:35] <Fred>sell these guys a CD-Rom burner

[16:35] <Paul> And the one where Barcley got addicted to virtual-Troi on the holodeck

[16:35] <Lensman> Worst? "Skin of Evil".

[16:35] <uberchorn> Piiiiigs iiiiin Spaaaaace

[16:35] <Lensman> TNG of course.

[16:35] <Fred>nah

[16:35] <Fred>Skin gets bonus points for snuffing Yar

[16:35] <Lensman> Pigs in Space! Yah one of my very favorites.

[16:35] <Harry_Redd> Worst TNG? The one where they ripped off A.D. Foster's VOM.

[16:35] <Fred>VOM?

[16:36] <SpaceCowboy> Worst TOS: "Gamesters of Triskelion."

[16:36] <Lensman> Fred: Perhaps someday you'll explain just why you hate most Trek so very intently.

[16:36] <FrGeek> The problem i had the picard as kid episode was they discover the fountain youth and forgot agot abot it

[16:36] <Tanada> I am going down to Eden...I liked that one, Nimoy Rocked!

[16:36] <Fred>well, since that's not true, it would be tough to explain

[16:36] <Lensman> Vom is a reference to _Bloodhype_. Part of the Flinx & Pip/ Humanx Commonwealth series.

[16:36] <Fred>I love TOS. Have since the first ep. My Dad got me on the set when I was a kid

[16:36] <Harry_Redd> A Purely Black and Evil Life form that ended all the life of the portion of the Galaxy it happened to be in.

[16:37] <Fred>Deep Space Nine rocks (for the most part)

[16:37] <Harry_Redd> That was from A.D. Foster's BLOODHYPE.

[16:37] <Paul> Well, Star Trek routinely forgets about the amazing discoveries they make in each episode.

[16:37] <SpaceCowboy> DS9 went soap, and I lost interest.

[16:37] <Fred>yes, paul

[16:37] <Lensman> Oh no, Gamesters isn't the worst. "The Omega Glory" and "The Children Shall Lead" are the worst Classic Trek. Still not nearly as bad as a lot of NextGen, tho.

[16:37] * allyngibson has quit IRC (Ping timeout)

[16:37] <Fred>most of 3rd season is worse than Gamersters

[16:37] <Paul> I mean really - the can set the ship's phasers on STUN and stun everyone on the planet - wouldn't that wrap up almost every episode in about twelve minutes?

[16:37] <Fred>yeah

[16:38] <FrGeek> how can it be bad with alien babe in thigh high gogo-boot?

[16:38] <Lensman> Fred: Re DS9: Well there we agree.

[16:38] <Fred>how did Trek lose stun capablity?

[16:38] <Paul> They forgot it.

[16:38] <Harry_Redd> None of them are nearly as bad a VOYAGER or ENTERPRISE though.

[16:38] <SpaceCowboy> "Corbomite Maneuver" (TOS) and "The Inner Light" (TNG) are favorites, though.

[16:38] <bandersnatch> Is Alzheimers endemic in TNG?

[16:38] <Fred>I agree with the bell curve theory of TNG - peaks in the middle, with a lousy start and end

[16:38] <Fred>Voyager is bad from the get go

[16:38] <Tanada> Voyager gets half destroyed every episode and still looks shipyard fresh at the start of the next episode

[16:38] <Fred>yeah

[16:39] <Fred>and had an endless supply of shuttles

[16:39] * Paul laughs and laughs

[16:39] <Lensman> Well I'm not sure which is worse-- Enterprise or NextGen.

[16:39] <Fred>SpaceCowbody, Corbomite Rocks

[16:39] <Fred>Enterprise

[16:39] <TreeHugr>Enterprise. No contect.

[16:39] <Fred>yeah

[16:39] <Paul> I gave up at the beginning of DS9.

[16:39] <TreeHugr>Contest

[16:39] <Tanada> LOL, we were keeping a running count of dead crew and destroyed shuttles for a while in Voy, when we got up to 20 shuttles and 80 crew we quite

[16:39] <Lensman> Voyager at least had 7 of 9 going for it in later seasons. Before that it was frequently awful, tho.

[16:39] <Fred>Tanada, Janeway killed them all several times

[16:40] <Paul> 7 of 9?

[16:40] <Fred>and killed everybody everywhere in the finale

[16:40] <Paul> In school we called her 10 of 10.

[16:40] <Tanada> lol

[16:40] <Lensman> The Borg woman who became a Voyager crewman.

[16:40] <FrGeek> well voyager actually mentioned that they loosing shutlles and had a togh time building new ones.

[16:40] <Fred>they may have mentioned it

[16:40] <Harry_Redd> My rule of thumb is: When a series introduces NAZIS ( on "secret" Islands or in space) it is a sure sign that the producers are not accepting any new ideas.

[16:40] <SpaceCowboy> I'm a chauvinist, I'll cop to it ... Seven was hot!

[16:40] <Fred>but they didn't demonstrate it

[16:40] <Tanada> only after the fans pointed out how stupid they thought we were for not noticing

[16:41] * Paul laughs

[16:41] <Lensman> LOL! 10 of 10 works for me! Yah, I do love cheesecake! And to think they gave her a padded bosom uniform at first! Um, guys... she DOESNT NEED IT!!

[16:41] <Fred>plus there was the whole 'holodecks use a different kind of power from food replicators' debacle

[16:41] <Harry_Redd> 7 of 9? What the hell happened to the other 8?

[16:41] <Paul> Well - she had to be cybernetically enhanced...

[16:41] <SpaceCowboy> LO-O-OVE those Borg Implants!

[16:41] <Tanada> Fred, three of them were met in another episode, but they all died at the end

[16:41] <Fred>we have endless holodeck power, but we can't make food. except we can make food inside the holodecks.

[16:41] <bandersnatch> and you do that with silicone?

[16:41] <Paul> What? Holodecks are AC and replicators are DC?

[16:42] <Fred>and it never occured to them to just leave a holodeck running as a cafeteria

[16:42] <FrGeek> Borg breast implants?

[16:42] <Lensman> Fred: Yah, exactly. The power problem/non-problem was an insult to our intelligence.

[16:42] <Paul> You will be assimilated.

[16:42] <TreeHugr>Fembot machine-gun jumblies?

[16:42] <Harry_Redd> Yupper, Raday behind Raydomes!

[16:42] <Tanada> LOL, not to mention they have fusion power supply generators availible AND bussard ramscoop collectors so no possible way to run low on replicator power

[16:42] <Fred>I think Voyager bottomed out with the 'star desert' though

[16:43] <Paul> Oh, do tell

[16:43] <SpaceCowboy> Holodeck food ... a great notion, until you step out of the holodeck. Worse than Chinese food ... ten seconds and you're hungry again.

[16:43] <Fred>when they were crossing through total blackness

[16:43] <Fred>there was nothing CAUSING the blackness

[16:43] <Paul> ??

[16:43] <Fred>they were just in a gap so far from ANY STAR they couldn't see them

[16:43] <Fred>for WEEKS

[16:43] <Paul> Hmmm....

[16:43] <Paul> well - intergalactic space maybe...

[16:43] <Fred>hard to imagine isn't it?

[16:43] <Lensman> My personal nadir for Voyager was when Janeway allied with the Borg to wipe out anothe race. Um... shouldn't she have done that the other 'way round??

[16:43] <Tanada> yeah, close to the galactic core it would be blindingly starlit without dust clouds or SOMETHING to block the light

[16:43] * Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye has joined #knownspace

[16:44] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> hey hey, it's working now

[16:44] <Fred>And they were covering the viewscreens and such to keep from going mad looking a the blackness

[16:44] <Fred>like they can't put whatever they want on the screens

[16:44] <Paul> Blackness is that scary?

[16:44] <FrGeek> Like germanese chinese resteraunt, an hour later and you are hungry for power

[16:44] <Lensman> Well if they were inside a dust cloud maybe they couldn't see any stars w/ visible light. Why is that hard to believe?

[16:44] <Harry_Redd> What Janeway should have done was promote the fighting between the Borge and the SPECIES then started mopping up the winner.

[16:44] <SpaceCowboy> LOL FrG!

[16:45] <Fred>lensman, they specifically said they weren't

[16:45] <Lensman> Fred: Well then that's why! <g>

[16:45] <Fred>they specifically said the ONLY reason for the blackness was a lack of stars in the area

[16:45] * Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye has quit IRC (Quit: Quit)

[16:45] <Tanada> Harry, what Janeway should have done was climb out of the plane of the Galaxy and scoot home at Warp 9.75

[16:45] <Lensman> Harry: yah, "let's you and him fight" is a great strategy!

[16:45] <Fred>Tanada, yes

[16:45] <Fred>like Bey did

[16:45] <FrGeek> Reminded me of the "starless zone" in cities in flight. did not make much sense

[16:46] * nick_danger has joined #knownspace

[16:46] <TreeHugr>Typical trek psuedo-science crap, done by writers who don't know what they're writing about, and think the viewers won't either.

[16:46] <SpaceCowboy> Welcome back, Nick. Feisty connection?

[16:46] <Lensman> Oh, the had the tech to scoot themselves quite a distance towards home several times. Too bad they NEVER THOUGHT TO USE IT REPEATEDLY!!

[16:46] <Harry_Redd> Thaat too Tanada. However, the galactic Plain is a lot thicker than most people think it is.

[16:46] <Fred>Ruthless connection (I wonder where Ruth is?)

[16:46] <Tanada> Fred Exactly, if Bey had thought of it sooner he could have gone galactic north for a week, then cruised to the core region almost starless for 6 weeks

[16:47] * nick_danger is laughing at Fred.

[16:47] <FrGeek> hi nick

[16:47] <nick_danger> I switched clients. I couldn't see Fred's messages on the other one for some reason.

[16:47] <nick_danger> hi FrGeek

[16:47] <Tanada> Not at Quantuum 2 hyperdrive speeds ;)

[16:47] <SpaceCowboy> Well, there's still that nasty ol' Barrier that I theorize is the equivalent of our own heliopause ...

[16:47] <Harry_Redd> Hi Nick.

[16:48] <nick_danger> whoo hoo. a firetruck just pulled up down the road

[16:48] <nick_danger> excitement in Oswaldtwistle

[16:48] <Tanada> You mean the one from Where No Man Has Gone Before?

[16:48] <TreeHugr>Well, danger is your last name . . .

[16:48] <SpaceCowboy> Yes, T

[16:48] <Lensman> Tan: I think he's thinking of the quite similar barrier around the galactic core, in Star Trek V

[16:49] <Fred>argh

[16:49] <Paul> Anyway gang, I must be off.

[16:49] <Paul> It's been good chatting.

[16:49] <Paul> Cheers!

[16:49] <SpaceCowboy> TREK V??? PLEASE!! I could've gone all YEAR without thinking of that turkey!

[16:49] <Lensman> Thanks for chatting with us Paul!

[16:49] <SpaceCowboy> Bye, Paul

[16:49] <Harry_Redd> Adios Paul

[16:50] <Lensman> Hey, I'm not the one who brought it up! Don't kill the messenger!

[16:50] <Fred>You know Trek V was originally supposed to star Sean Connery as Sybok?

[16:50] <Paul> :)

[16:50] * Paul has quit IRC

[16:50] <FrGeek> Oh yah the qiest for peace, the only peace I got was walking out of the theater

[16:50] <Fred>He even worked on the script

[16:50] <SpaceCowboy> Until Sir Sean saw the script, I bet ...

[16:50] <Fred>the magic planet is his name without vowells

[16:50] <Fred>Sha Ka Ree

[16:51] <Lensman> Actually I don't think V was all *that* bad other than the HUH??? ending and the sucky direction.

[16:51] <Lensman> The Sybok stuff was pretty good IMHO.

[16:51] <Fred>Paramount just never got around to giving him a contract, and Lucas hired him for LAST CRUSADE instead

[16:51] <FrGeek> the whole "god" thing was poor.

[16:51] <Tanada> if I had my druthers I would edit about 50% out of V and 25% out of VI

[16:52] <Fred>Then they said "A big star like Connery -- who can we replace him with?" and of course came up with the only possible actor of his stature

[16:52] <Tanada> get rid of all the Shatner can act scenes

[16:52] <Fred>Larry Luckinbill

[16:52] <Lensman> I thought VI was excellent. Second best of the movies, right behind II.

[16:52] <Fred>VI is interesting

[16:52] <Tanada> Agerrd Lens, but when I watch it on DVD I FF through the mine scenes

[16:53] <Fred>you noted the 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea stuff?

[16:53] <Lensman> Well the "god" thing works if you say it wasn't really god... which they did seem to say at the end... but then they didn't go anywhere with it. So what *was* it?

[16:53] <Fred>Meyer was 'homaging' the 1954 Disney film heavily in Trek 6.

[16:54] <Lensman> Tan: Yah, those have no repeat value at all. Yawn.

[16:54] <Fred>he even had them narrow the Enterprise corridors and drop the lighting to make it more like the Nautilus

[16:54] <Fred>the silly thing is, he'd have gotten a LOT farther making the Klingon ship into the Nautilus

[16:54] <Fred>kirk isn't Nemo. Chang is Nemo.

[16:55] <FrGeek> Oh I know it was an alien pretebding to be God, but it was poorly done. At the end Kirk asked "why does God need a spaceship" I askedf he samr queston two hour before ;)

[16:55] * Tanada has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)

[16:55] <Lensman> Fred: No I never noticed any similarity between VI and Disney's "Leagues". Obviously the underlighting was to make a different mood, but I hadn't thought of it as being an analog to undersea lighting effects.

[16:56] <Fred>yeah, Meyer was going for Nautilus

[16:56] <SpaceCowboy> I briefly had a "Director's Cut" of TrekV ... principal photography, no score or VFX -- all the SPFX shots were AMT kits on sticks -- it was hilarious!

[16:56] <Fred>the prison camp? Rura Pante, the Alien graveyard? That's Rura Pante, the white man's graveyard, from LEAGUES

[16:57] <Lensman>

I guess Meyer likes submarine movies. The whole Mutaran (sp?) Nebula sequence in II was clearly copied from a WW II submarine film.

[16:57] <Fred>good point

[16:57] <Harry_Redd> THE ENEMY BELOW? Great Movie.

[16:57] <Fred>The big problem for me in 6 is that they should have had Savvik

[16:57] <FrGeek> Remember short run 70- series callled the return of catain nemo?

[16:57] <Lensman> Is there a prison camp in "Leagues"? I don't remember one.

[16:57] <Fred>sure

[16:58] <Fred>it's where Nemo and his crew escaped from

[16:58] <Fred>it's a major set piece in the film. Nemo takes Arronax there to show him the camp, before he sinks the nitrate ship

[16:58] <FrGeek> thy found the nautilus at he botton of the marias trench and found nemo in cryosuspension

[16:58] <Lensman> Are you talking about the movie or the novel? The Laser Rangers watched the movie not so long ago and I don't remember any such scene.

[16:58] <Fred>movie

[16:59] <TreeHugr>Which version?

[16:59] <Fred>frgeek, yeah, that was an irwon Allen mini series

[16:59] <Lensman> Mmmm... okay I have that DVD clearly I need to watch it again.

[16:59] <Fred>the 1954 Disney version Tree

[16:59] <Fred>when you watch the DVD lensmen?

[16:59] <Lensman> Oh please... the Irwin Allen series... and you complained about me bringing up Trek V?!?!

[16:59] <Fred>admire the Nautilus in the menu and tour and special features

[16:59] <Fred>that's all mine

[16:59] <Fred>:)

[17:01] <Lensman> !! Well I AM impressed!! Hey I have a good friend who's a regular on the Disney Nautilus forum, I'll have to tell him I've chatted with the guy who produced the DVD menus! And they are VERY nice, Ken has praised the DVD highly!

[17:01] <SpaceCowboy> I just watched 20KLUTS the other night ... they particularly talk about the Rura Pente scene when they talk about the wonderful glass matte paintings.

[17:01] <Fred>wait, no

[17:01] <Fred>I didn't produce the menus

[17:01] <Fred>I built and animated the Nautilus

[17:02] <SpaceCowboy> What format, Fred?

[17:02] <Fred>?

[17:02] <SpaceCowboy> 3DS MAX? Lightwave?

[17:02] <Fred>Electric Image

[17:02] <SpaceCowboy> REAL?

[17:02] <Lensman> Disney did the very best matte paintings, courtesy of Ellenshaw.

[17:02] <Fred>yes

[17:02] <Fred>I love Ellenshaw's work

[17:02] <Fred>never a big fan of his son though

[17:03] <SpaceCowboy> Tough to beat Ellenshaw. Didn't he also do Carpenter's "The Thing"?

[17:03] <Lensman> So, you did the computer animation of the Nautilus in the DVD menus for the Disney DVD? Have I got that right now?

[17:03] <Fred>yes :)

[17:03] <Lensman> What was his first name, Brad?

[17:03] <Fred>and the 'tour of' the ship

[17:04] <SpaceCowboy> It's beautiful work, Fred! Did you know about the non-anamorphic model they built for the film?

[17:04] <Lensman> Okay. I don't remember the tour, but I do remember there are an impressive number of extras on that DVD. I guess I know what I'll be doing after I get off this chat!

[17:04] <Fred>the non anamorphic model continues to be hotly debated

[17:04] <SpaceCowboy> It's on Disk 2, Dave.

[17:04] <Fred>I've got the blue prints for it

[17:05] <Lensman> I don't understand what "non anamorphic" means in the context of a model.

[17:05] <Fred>but as to if it ever existed, no one agrees

[17:05] <Fred>Lens, they shot the film in CinemaScope

[17:05] <Fred>which uses a distortion lens on the camera

[17:05] <Lensman> Yes, and...?

[17:05] <Fred>in 1954, there was only one lens

[17:05] <SpaceCowboy> How so, Fred? The director (Fleischer) confirms it in the audio commentary...

[17:05] <Lensman> Yes I know what anamorphic means, but what does that have to do with models?

[17:06] <Fred>Harper Goff, designer of the ship

[17:06] <Fred>suggested they build a squished model

[17:06] <Fred>and film it with a normal lens

[17:06] <Fred>to give them something to do on those days they didn't have a Cinemascope lens

[17:06] <Fred>because it was in use on THE ROBE

[17:07] <Lensman> But that wouldn't work if you looked at the model from the front or back! Or any angle except perpendicular to the side!

[17:07] <Fred>correct

[17:07] <SpaceCowboy> Scaled down on the long axis ... it looked sorta like those "pudgy airplanes" only a Nautilus.

[17:07] <oliver> I've got to log off

[17:07] * oliver has quit IRC

[17:07] <Fred>there is no evidence other than verbal that any such model ever existed

[17:08] <SpaceCowboy> Really. Hmm.

[17:08] <Fred>they actually did a weird thing recently

[17:08] <Fred>they built a Nautilus snowglobe

[17:08] <Fred>and the model on it is squeezed!

[17:08] <Lensman> Keep in mind, when people talk about something that happened decades ago, they may be remembering incorrectly. They may remember something was *talked* about and forget it never was actually done.

[17:08] <Fred>they used my stuff too

[17:08] <Fred>yes. it may also have been filmed and discarded

[17:09] <Fred>there ARE non anamorphic shots in the film

[17:09] <Fred>including ones of the ship

[17:09] <Fred>but it's the regualr ship

[17:09] <Lensman> So how many models were there, used in filming?

[17:09] <Fred>that we're certain of?

[17:09] <Fred>there's the 11 footer

[17:10] <Fred>and the 22 foot deck waterline model

[17:10] <Fred>and the full size deck

[17:10] <Fred>there is also supposedly an iron silouette cutout that they tossed overboard in the bahamas when they were done with ti

[17:10] <Lensman> The smallest model used was 11 ft? Wow! That's huge for film work!

[17:10] <Fred>but again, there's no evidence of it, either

[17:11] <Lensman> The most often used model of the Enterprise on Classic Trek was, what, 4 ft?

[17:12] <SpaceCowboy> I think there's a photo of the silhouette in the Gallery on Disk 2 ... but I can't tell if it's metal.

[17:12] <Lensman> Of course the Enterprise wasn't very detailed. Certainly not like the baroque Nautilus!

[17:12] <Fred>it was the same size though :)

[17:12] <SpaceCowboy> 14 feet, Lens.

[17:12] <Fred>11

[17:12] <Fred>14 feet is a mistake from the Whitman MAKING OF STAR TREK

[17:13] <Fred>that's been carried down through the ages :)

[17:13] <Lensman> Hmmm, I thought they most commonly used a smaller one. *Shrug*

[17:13] <SpaceCowboy> I stand corrected. Gene told me it was 14.

[17:13] <Harry_Redd> I wonder what size the Nautilus was for League of Extraordinary Gentlemen?

[17:13] <Fred>lol

[17:13] <Fred>it's cgi

[17:13] <Lensman> WHAT!! You're suggesting there's an error in my Bible for Classic Trek, _The Making of Star Trek_?? Heresy!! <g>

[17:13] <SpaceCowboy> They used about a 3-footer for "WNM" and "The Cage"

[17:13] <Fred>nope

[17:14] <Fred>everybody thought that 'til recently

[17:14] <FrGeek> I liked the LXG nautilus and Nemo

[17:14] <Fred>there's stills of the 11 footer in 'pilot' configuration

[17:14] <Fred>they actually changed the 11 foot through 3 permutations

[17:14] <Fred>first pilot, second pilot, and production

[17:14] <Harry_Redd> Me too. I oulw expect it was a bit deep in draft to get into Venice Harbor though. :-)

[17:14] <Fred>lol, harry

[17:15] <Fred>according to the LXG website

[17:15] <Fred>that nautilus was FIVE MILES LONG

[17:15] <Lensman> Sorry, they really lost me when they took a sub the size of an aircraft carrier into the canals of Venice. NOOOOOOO!! If you pummel my willing suspension of disbelief hard enuff, you WILL kill it!

[17:15] <TreeHugr>Too right, Lens.

[17:15] <Fred>LXG is a WONDERFUL graphic novle

[17:15] <SpaceCowboy> As in Jackson's "King Kong", Lens?

[17:15] <Fred>the movie was 'what were they THINKING?'

[17:16] <Harry_Redd> Agreed. Just enough FUN in it too!

[17:16] <Fred>And how com Tom Sawyer is still a boy?

[17:16] <Lensman> LXG is the very best graphic novel I've ever read, hands down. Even better than The Dark Knight Returns (IMNSHO). But a lousy movie.

[17:16] <FrGeek> True, but the underwater venice was nowhere near realistic but it wa not menat to be

[17:16] <Lensman> SC: Yah, exactly.

[17:16] <SpaceCowboy> Blame Clemens. He wrote him into a story set in the late 1880s as still a youngster.

[17:17] <Lensman> Did I complain here about Kong throwing Anne around so much she'd be dead 100 times over, here?

[17:17] <Harry_Redd> Err Tom Sawyer was written in the late 1840 I think. Maybe 1850's.

[17:17] <Fred>lol

[17:17] <FrGeek> Funny I liked eth movie more than the GN- alough I liked dr Dr moriaty/Dr Fumanchu cncept. Thow in Dr Lovelace and it woudl have been perfect!

[17:17] <Fred>btw, this is probably the aforementioned forum

[17:17] <Fred>

[17:18] <Fred>bottom article is me

[17:18] <SpaceCowboy> I know I have. (And the petite lil waif doesn't even get a bruise, to say nothing of terminal whiplash and internal injuries?)

[17:18] <Lensman> Well, to each his own. I actually saw the movie first. But heard how great the GN was. Read it at the bookstore-- just *had* to buy my own copy! Don't thing that much of the sequel, tho.

[17:18] <Fred>gah

[17:18] <Fred>the sequel is offensive

[17:19] <Fred>the DARK KNIGHT sequel was disappointing too, although way better than LXG2

[17:19] <FrGeek> Yah the squel was bad

[17:19] <Lensman> I'm a huge War of the Worlds fan. I go to a forum for that nearly every day. As you say, the LXG sequel is... offensive.

[17:20] <Fred>oops, 5 up from the bottom is me on that Disney link

[17:20] <Fred>hadn't finished loading :)

[17:22] <Lensman> Well, it's after 2. Beginning to look as tho Larry won't show?

[17:22] <Fred>:(

[17:23] <Lensman> :( is right.

[17:23] <Harry_Redd> Never can tell about Larry.

[17:23] <Fred>he's going the wrong way 'round the world again

[17:23] <SpaceCowboy> Besides, this is pretty entertaining as is ...

[17:23] <Lensman> LOL!

[17:24] <Fred>SpaceCowboy, AFAIK, the only time the 3 foot Enterprise may appear on screen is in the opening credits of THE CAGE

[17:24] <Lensman> Has Larry ever talked about how he wound up making the world spin backwards?

[17:25] <Fred>btw, here's a shot of the 11 footer with people

[17:25] <Lensman> I mean, I can sympathize. I always have to stop and think about whether the "left" coast is ahead of our time or behind it.

[17:25] <Fred>nautilus

[17:25] <Fred>

[17:25] <TreeHugr>Isn't that 11-ft Enterprise going in the auction?

[17:25] <Fred>I doubt it

[17:26] <Fred>it's in the Smithsonian

[17:26] <Harry_Redd> Yes. He said he got confused.

[17:26] <TreeHugr>One of the big models is in the auction, don't know which.

[17:26] <Fred>might be from another series

[17:26] <Fred>or a Jein model

[17:27] <SpaceCowboy> Could be someone cleaning out bits of the Vegas "Experience", too

[17:27] <Fred>lol

[17:27] <Fred>is that auction a 'profiles in history' auction?

[17:27] <Fred>or somebody else?

[17:28] <SpaceCowboy> My buddy Dragon Dronet built the Enterprise-A for the Vegas show, plus a couple of other major pieces.

[17:28] <Fred>cool

[17:28] <SpaceCowboy> I think it's a Christie's special ... and they're bagging many, many times what they expected.

[17:29] <Lensman> I must admit, the movie Enterprise was a beautiful ship. Much as I like Classic Trek, the Enterprise in that show wasn't elegant.

[17:29] * senax has joined #knownspace

[17:29] <Harry_Redd> Hi Senax.

[17:29] <senax> Hi Frank. Hope Peggy's doing better.

[17:30] <FrGeek> Het Senax

[17:30] <Fred>here we go

[17:30] <Fred>

[17:30] <SpaceCowboy> Greetings, Senax. Yes, the movie model was a lovely thing, but everyone who had to *wrangle* it *hated* it!

[17:30] <Fred>yep

[17:30] <Fred>a friend of mine shot it for Star Trek V

[17:30] <FrGeek> This chat works out well. not going anywhere becaus eof kdney stones so I suld be here for the duration.

[17:31] <Fred>ack

[17:31] <Fred>are you heavily medicated?

[17:32] <TreeHugr>My mistake, the Christie's Enterprise was 78 inches, and sold for 576,000 US$.

[17:32] <FrGeek> Not heavily, two weeks ago was the worse. Been fine since then. First pangs since then

[17:32] <SpaceCowboy> I used to work with Charlie Mullen at Boeing. Every time I'd disagree with him on the best way to do a motion control setup, he'd go "Yah, yah, you're just pissed at me because I blew up your precious starship..."

[17:33] <SpaceCowboy> FrG, aren't they using the spiffy ultrasonic asteroid blaster on you?

[17:34] * SteveS has joined #knownspace

[17:34] <SteveS> Hi, all!

[17:34] <FrGeek> No, I'm not that bad. But I di have soem wonderful meds ;)

[17:34] <Harry_Redd> Hi Steve.

[17:35] <FrGeek> Tomorrow we will see how a sermon on oxycodin looks like ;)

[17:35] <Lensman> IIRC they complained bitterly about the movie Enterprise model 'cuz it was filled with plaster and weighed a ton. I remember one shot in VI where they blew a hole in the underside of the saucer, and it sure *looked* like it was solid plaster underneath the chunk that was blown out.

[17:35] <SteveS> I'm sick right now, and the prescription cough syrup has me feeling a little weird.

[17:36] <Lensman> Sorry to hear you're "under the weather" Steve.

[17:36] <SteveS> I've had a severe cold, or something like it, for over a week, and I just went to the doctor yesterday.

[17:36] <Lensman> Well I'm gonna be AFK for a bit as my tummy is growling at me. If Larry comes in, please shout LOUDLY so I'll hear!

[17:37] <SteveS> Has Larry been in today?

[17:37] <senax> So LN hasn't been in yet today?

[17:37] <Fred>he might be cloaked :)(

[17:38] <SpaceCowboy> Slaver technology, no doubt...

[17:39] <FrGeek> Hey I could be him and not know it.

[17:39] <senax> or tnuctip

[17:40] <Fred>or brennan

[17:42] <CatPasswd> Harvest moon tonight. Full moon while it's at perigee

[17:42] <TreeHugr>Gotta go, see you on the list!

[17:42] * TreeHugr has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)

[17:42] <FrGeek> Hmm no jugding form my pink carapase I woudl guess chirpsirtha

[17:43] <SpaceCowboy> You sound like you're on *good* meds, FrG! ;D

[17:43] <SpaceCowboy> Oxycodone and Hydrocodone have *zero* effect on me, sadly.

[17:44] <SpaceCowboy> Dunno why.

[17:45] <SteveS> Hydrocodone is what I have.

[17:45] <Lensman> I hadn't thought of that. If Larry is here, I have three points I'd like to clear up for my Known Space Chronology.

[17:45] <SteveS> I don't *think* my mind is being affected, but my inner ear feels a little weird.

[17:46] <Fred>I can't get to the Christies catalog to see what models they're selling

[17:46] <Harry_Redd> Just E-Mail him Lensman

[17:46] <FrGeek> I have Oxycodone and if it gets bad Hydrocodone. Oh and soem nausea stuff that puts me right to sleep

[17:47] <SpaceCowboy> You get Hydrocodone for a cold? Even a severe one? I want to switch to *your* doctor, Steve!

[17:47] <Fred>a cold?

[17:47] <Fred>he's got kidney stones

[17:48] <SpaceCowboy> FrG does, Fred. But SteveS was talking about a cold...

[17:48] <Fred>a friend of mine gets those periodically

[17:48] <Fred>oh, sorry

[17:48] * SeanS sets mode: +o SteveS

[17:48] <Lensman> Well there's a fighter ship from some species I don't recognize from Voyager. And the USS Pegasus from Next Gen.

[17:48] <Fred>I have a HUGE freaking stone that only shows up when they xray me

[17:48] <SteveS> It also has a petty bad sounding cough, and the X-ray of my chest showed a little bronchitis.

[17:48] <Fred>been there for at least a decade

[17:48] <Fred>I don't look forward to the day it breaks loose

[17:49] <FrGeek> I guess it doe snot bother you

[17:49] <Fred>nope

[17:49] <Fred>they're always amazed when they see it

[17:49] <Fred>but I wouldn't know it was there

[17:49] <SpaceCowboy> Knock wood. I hope your luck holds, Fred!

[17:49] <Lensman> Nick Danger. That's the pulp detective from "In the Cellar", right?

[17:49] <Fred>I have no idea if I can assume it will sit there another 30 years or what

[17:50] <SpaceCowboy> FIRESIGN THEATER!

[17:50] <Fred>Nick Danger, Third Eye

[17:50] <bandersnatch> as long as it's big enough to not go into the plumbing...

[17:50] <SteveS> This is the firs time in years that I've felt genuinely weak from an illness.

[17:50] <SpaceCowboy> PRIVATE Nick Danger.

[17:50] <Fred>you can get the first nick danger sketch on itunes

[17:50] <Fred>it's the same price as any other song but it's like half an hour long, lol

[17:51] <Fred>seems like your best bang for your buck

[17:51] <SpaceCowboy> I got the CD from George Carlin's website,

[17:51] <FrGeek> Well the pain id bad but it goes away in a couple hour, or a day, if you only have one.

[17:51] <Fred>my friend ends up in the emergency room

[17:52] <Fred>ah, got into christies

[17:52] <Fred>there's a model of teh enterprise E

[17:52] <SpaceCowboy> But I have a couple of the others on the Columbia label.

[17:52] <Fred>I didn't even known they BUILT a physical model of that

[17:52] <SpaceCowboy> I think "Enterprise" was the only all-digital starship.

[17:53] <Fred>oh, the E. that's first contact.

[17:53] <Fred>yeah, they still had real models then

[17:54] <Fred>they had a beutiful Enterprise D in Generations

[17:54] <Fred>cgi

[17:54] <Lensman> What, the "E" wasn't just the "D" model with a bit of new paint?

[17:54] <Fred>lol, no, totally different design

[17:54] <Fred>there's a conspiracy theory about that

[17:54] <Fred>want to hear it?

[17:54] <SpaceCowboy> Do regale us, Fred!

[17:55] <Fred>Andrew Probert (who I must ask about this someday; he's on the Nautilus group and my EI software chat)

[17:55] <Fred>worked on the TMP enterprise

[17:55] <Fred>but andy never LIKED the TMP enterprise

[17:55] <Fred>he did a redesign on his own time

[17:55] <Fred>that later became the D

[17:56] <Fred>THAT much is established fact

[17:56] <Fred>It's rumored that, because Andy designed the D on his own

[17:56] <Fred>that Paramount didn't own it outright

[17:56] <Lensman> Okay, thanx to the magic of Google Images I now know what the Enterprise E looks like. Pretty elegant; I never did like the klunky D design.

[17:56] <Fred>agreed

[17:57] <Fred>and the reason they got rid of the D was to cut andy out and replace it with a ship hacked out in house that they owned

[17:57] <Harry_Redd> I must get some rest. I haven't been sleeping well lately.

[17:57] <Fred>nite harry

[17:57] <Harry_Redd> BBL

[17:57] <Fred>frank

[17:57] <SpaceCowboy> I know that Dykstra went round and round with Paramount over the Klingon D7 from TMP for the same reason...

[17:57] <SteveS> Night, Frank! Sleep well.

[17:57] <senax> Later Frank

[17:57] <SpaceCowboy> Take care, Frank.

[17:58] <Fred>oh, 'cause of his TMP refit?

[17:58] <CatPasswd> Wonder why there's no enterprise here

[17:59] <SpaceCowboy> I understand he built it and was never reimbursed, so there was a lot of fighting over ownership. I got to see it in the Smithsonian, it was a *beautiful* thing!

[17:59] <CatPasswd> He's got damn near everything else

[17:59] <Fred>Disney never paid in full for the Nautilus

[18:00] <Fred>and they used my shots for their snowglobe and cloisenne pin

[18:00] <Fred>which for some reason I just found amusing

[18:00] <Lensman> I don't understand that, at all. I'd think a standard contract would say any work you did for a movie was owned by the studio, outright. That sounds like a real legal mess if you could claim the studio owed you residuals for sequels, electronic rights, overseas rights, etc etc.

[18:00] <Fred>Disney ripping off MY nautilus and reselling it :)

[18:01] <Fred>lensman, the probert story? Yeah, I have no idea

[18:01] <Fred>It's possible the contract said something about 'the tv show'

[18:01] <Fred>and then they realized movies weren't covered

[18:01] <Lensman> Okay, well if they didn't pay in full I certainly understand your objection. I had no idea Disney was such a sleezeball when it came to paying people.

[18:01] <Fred>that kind of thing happens

[18:01] <Fred>oh, yes, Disney are total slime

[18:02] <SpaceCowboy> I understand the Disney outfit is a horror to work for, if you care about your work.

[18:02] <Fred>yep

[18:02] <Fred>okay, christies has the Voyager model too

[18:02] * Harry_Redd has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)

[18:03] <SpaceCowboy> I interviewed for a job there once. The interviewer gave me a quick tour as we talked and had to go take a call when we were in the animation dept. One of the "galley slaves" looked up at me and stage-whispered, "DON'T DO IT!"

[18:03] <Fred>part of the disney contract was that we got our names on the movie

[18:03] <Fred>LOL

[18:04] <Fred>there's even a space for it on the DVD extras

[18:04] <Fred>but then they decided to cut our names

[18:04] <Fred>so there's a link but it just says 'thanks to everybody' or somethilng

[18:04] <Fred>so they moved our names to the end of the documentary

[18:05] <Fred>and disney cut THAT too, and used an earlier version of the documentary that's got mistakes in it

[18:05] <SpaceCowboy> How much are they looking at for Voyager, and does Rick Sternbach know it's on the block? (He did dearly love that little skateboard...)

[18:05] <Fred>

[18:06] <Fred>mentions rick in the text

[18:06] <SpaceCowboy> Off subject: what am I doing wrong here, I can't cut&paste from the chat.

[18:07] <CatPasswd> using mirc?

[18:07] <Fred>when I highlite text in chat

[18:07] <SpaceCowboy> No, Java...

[18:07] <Fred>a new window opens

[18:07] <Fred>and I have to copy the text from THAT

[18:07] <CatPasswd> hilight the text, hit CTRL-C

[18:07] <SpaceCowboy> No joy ... no highlight.

[18:08] <Fred>what browser?

[18:08] <SpaceCowboy> Exploder.

[18:08] <SpaceCowboy> Netscrape won't open the room.

[18:08] * senax is now known as senax_afk

[18:09] <Fred>wow, they've got the DS9 model

[18:09] <Fred>and the defiant

[18:11] <Lensman> Just TRY to highlight it, then try the usual Windoz paste.

[18:11] <Lensman> That may work even if it looks like it's not working.

[18:11] <SpaceCowboy> Defiant never rang my chimes. (well, the TOS version that showed up in "Enterprise" was pretty cool ... nice in-joke on the hull number, too!)

[18:12] <Lensman> I agree, that was pretty blah. They should've stolen the Reliant design!

[18:12] <SpaceCowboy> No joy, Dave. Good suggestion, though ...

[18:12] <SteveS> I don't remember... What was the hull number?

[18:13] <Lensman> Okay, I'll bite: What was the hull number joke?

[18:13] <Fred>

[18:13] <Fred>6' ds9. mentions sternbach.

[18:13] <Lensman> Try the "paste from clipboard" icon.

[18:13] <SpaceCowboy> Reliant in WOK was 1864 ... Defiant in Enterprise was 1764. Sly homage ...

[18:14] <Lensman> Okay.

[18:16] <SpaceCowboy> "Through A Glass, Darkly" was arguably the best of Enterprise. But too little, too late.

[18:16] <Fred>I liked the first part a lot

[18:17] <Fred>the second part, with that awful cgi gorn, and Archer talking to himself . . .

[18:17] <SpaceCowboy> A clever nod to "Mirror Mirror" though.

[18:17] <Fred>I only like the end of it, with Hoshi triumphant :)

[18:18] <SpaceCowboy> EMPRESS Sato ... yes, that was a masterstroke!

[18:18] <Fred>I always thought Archer was in the Mirror universe all along

[18:18] <Fred>that he was the dividing point

[18:18] <Fred>that caused the darkness

[18:18] <SpaceCowboy> Busy leaping between takes! (lol)

[18:18] <Fred>heh

[18:18] <Fred>instead it turns out he's just a holonovel

[18:19] <Lensman> Well obviously Enterprise had to take place in an alternate Trek universe, not what we think of as the "main timeline".

[18:19] * SpaceCowboy has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)

[18:19] <Fred>yep

[18:19] <Fred>a universe where nobody writes anything down

[18:19] * SpaceCowboy has joined #knownspace

[18:19] <Fred>hey space

[18:20] <Lensman> LOL!

[18:20] <SpaceCowboy> Well, that was rude...

[18:20] <Lensman> But it was an unintentional slight, SC...

[18:20] <Fred>are you trying to copy paste the urls I put up space?

[18:21] <SpaceCowboy> Yes, Fred ... but I've got notepad up in another window and I'm just typing them in.

[18:21] <Fred>k

[18:21] <Fred>or give me your email and I'll send them to you

[18:21] <Fred>I've got them all open in tabs

[18:22] <SpaceCowboy> I'm Bill Warren, BTW (the artist, not the author.)

[18:22] <Lensman> Another name for my score card!

[18:23] <SpaceCowboy> Got yours too, Mr. S!

[18:23] <SpaceCowboy> Harry invited me to join this chat because Larry and I are sharing billing at RadCon in February.

[18:24] <Lensman> Yah, well we've chatted before SC, but my memory for names is *really* bad. Fortunately there's this nifty invention called writing... :)

[18:24] <Fred>k, got 'em assembled for you

[18:24] <SpaceCowboy> S'okay, Lens ... I feel like I have two engrams left most of the time, but they aren't on speaking terms.;)

[18:25] <Fred>I can only get up to page 13 of the auction, about 2/3 of the way. after that it errors out on me :(

[18:25] <SpaceCowboy> Thank you, Fred. You sound like Los Angeles area?

[18:25] <Fred>Phoenix

[18:25] <Lensman> I did that back in the day with the Dawn Patrol chatroom, too. Wrote down the real names for the chatroom handles. After awhile I started remembering. But that was a once/week chat, this is only once/month.

[18:26] <SpaceCowboy> Ah, yes ... I recall Iguanacon. Wrong time of year to be in Phoenix!

[18:26] <Fred>heh

[18:26] <Fred>they hold "Tuscon" in Tucson

[18:26] <Fred>I always thought that was clever

[18:26] <SpaceCowboy> But the PB cover was my first published color work...

[18:27] <SpaceCowboy> I always liked the Edmonton "NonCon"...

[18:27] <Lensman> LOL Tuscon. That's great, considering all the typos that have been enshrined as fannish terms: Bheer, Ghod, Filk, poctsard...

[18:27] <Fred>yeah, I spell Tucson wrong to this day because of it

[18:28] <Fred>I liked Leprecon too

[18:28] <SpaceCowboy> Don't phorget "phan, phannish, phen ..."

[18:28] <Lensman> ConQuesT is our con, of course, but briefly there was a con in Norman... OK or NE? I forget. Anyway, it was Norman Conquest.

[18:29] <SpaceCowboy> Heh ... I went to college in Norman. (OK)

[18:31] <Lensman> Small world.

[18:31] <SpaceCowboy> I'm hailing from Central Washington these days, used to be Seattle/Tacoma.

[18:32] <SteveS> The local anime club is meeting in half an hour, and I haven't had a chance to go in a while, so I'm going to head that way.

[18:32] <SteveS> See y'all next time!

[18:32] <Fred>enjoy!

[18:32] <SpaceCowboy> Take care, Steve! Nice chatting!

[18:33] <SteveS> Yup. Night!

[18:33] * SteveS has quit IRC

[18:35] <SpaceCowboy> Is Larry doing a con this weekend?

[18:36] <SpaceCowboy> Fred, do you have the Nautilus model in Electric Image, or is that strictly guarded by WED?

[18:37] <SpaceCowboy> I've found a couple of beautiful versions for #DStudio, MAX, and at least a couple of others in .dxf and Lightwave.

[18:38] <SpaceCowboy> ^3DStudio^

[18:40] <SpaceCowboy> Hello? Am I locked out again?

[18:42] <SpaceCowboy> I'm going to try to log in again, I see me but nobody else since SteveS signed off...

[18:42] <Lensman> I can see your post, SC

[18:42] <SpaceCowboy> Ah! Thanks, Lens!

[18:42] <FrGeek> Sound liek you are 3DStudio fan. I am a Cinema 4d user myself

[18:42] <Lensman> I think the chat has died away.

[18:43] <SpaceCowboy> My main packages are MAX (only 3.2) and Poser and Bryce, FrG. I haven't tried Cinema4D ... how is it?

[18:44] <Lensman> Carol said something in a post the other day that has me pondering:

[18:44] <FrGeek> very intitive interface abd design.

[18:44] <Lensman> There are a great number of people on this list who, when asked how they know something, can say "Larry told me (in a private conversation, during a panel, in a letter)." Most people seem to feel that ruins the fun.

[18:44] <Lensman> I confess I don't understand what she means.

[18:46] <Lensman> I'm trying to nail down a few facts about Known Space for my Chronology, and I don't regard someone telling me "Larry told me thus-and-such" to be spoiling the fun at all; I feel like it's a victory nailing down some ambiguity! Is that just me? Am I totally out of the mainstream (so to speak) on this?

[18:47] <SpaceCowboy> I used to have Lightwave, Videoscape, Sculpt3D and a couple of others on my Amiga. (not currently functional, more's the pity. What a sweet machine in her day!)

[18:47] <SpaceCowboy> I don't think so, Lens ... insider information is great!

[18:47] <FrGeek> I thigh it means it more fun trying to image stuff fo oursleves. Take eth Kzinti thread. Lotsof peopel lot sof ideas and everyone thinks that are correct and can support their conclusions with real and KS facts.

[18:50] <SpaceCowboy> I don't have *any* computer games on my Windows platforms (if you don't count Flight Sim 2004) ... my idea of "playing" is MAX.

[18:51] <FrGeek> Amigas were sweet. I came this close to buying an amega as my first computer. I decided to go for the brand new 386 machines that came out. 20Mhz I think it was.

[18:51] <Lensman> Amiga! And fen were calling me a dinosaur for using Windoz 98!

[18:51] <FrGeek> I know EXACTLY what you mean

[18:51] <SpaceCowboy> Of course, my wives both got fiercely addicted to Amiga gaming... I loved the open architecture of the Amiga, very easy to program for.

[18:52] <Lensman> There are still times I wish I could play the old Apple ][ game

[18:52] <Lensman> "Colonial Conquest". I even downloaded a freeware Apple ][ emulator, but no joy.

[18:53] <SpaceCowboy> I still have 2-1000's, 2-500's, and a 2000. Unfortunately, I believe only one of the 500's is currently functional...

[18:53] <FrGeek> I just found a PC version of my favorite Commodore 64 game. almost a whole 400k!

[18:54] <SpaceCowboy> I also found an Amiga emulator for Windows, but only briefly succeeded in uploading Amiga data to the Windows machine.

[18:54] <Lensman> 400K, hmph! REAL programmers don't need that much RAM!

[18:54] <SpaceCowboy> Which C64 game is that, FrG?

[18:54] <FrGeek> Sword of Fargoal.

[18:54] <FrGeek> Its free download on the net

[18:55] <SpaceCowboy> What was the space sim game ... The Halley Project comes to mind?

[18:55] <Fred>sorry, was afk

[18:55] <Fred>I'm doing the c4d tutorials now

[18:55] <Fred>very mixed results

[18:55] <FrGeek> M.U.L.E I think (Really wracking the brain cells now)

[18:56] <Fred>most of it doesn't work, but it's unclear if it's 'cause its the demo of the software, or the tutes are badly translated from german, or what

[18:56] * senax_afk is now known as senax

[18:56] <FrGeek> What do you need to know? I have Cinemna 4d

[18:57] <Fred>I'm doing the r10 quickstart tutes, but all the instructions are wrong

[18:57] <Fred>they either skip a step or tell you the wrong key command at every turn

[18:57] <SpaceCowboy> LOL ... I have a wonderful freeware animator from Japan, the manual (such as it is) is so badly translated it's hilarious! Even knowing what the guy means, it's ludicrous to try to make sense of the Japlish translation.

[18:58] <Fred>yeah

[18:58] * growler has joined #knownspace

[18:58] <Fred>growl

[18:59] <SpaceCowboy> "If you are want to pressing the shift key and crontol being at the same time, do not."

[18:59] <FrGeek> I remeber putting up a tent back in my military days. The instuction said. Take teh tarp with the hole and place side withe the hole on the bottom. Never understood what the botton side of a hole in a tarp.

[18:59] <SpaceCowboy> LOL!

[18:59] <SpaceCowboy> Hi, Growler.

[19:00] <growler> hi

[19:00] <senax> HI growler

[19:00] * SeanS sets mode: +o growler

[19:00] <FrGeek> hey

[19:00] <growler> what is this "+0" mode thing?

[19:00] <FrGeek> It means your better than the rest of us. ;)

[19:01] <senax> yer a channel operator now

[19:01] <senax> you can kick, ban, etc.

[19:01] <SpaceCowboy> Cool! Like Edith Prickley?

[19:01] <SpaceCowboy> Well, I guess she was just "station manager", wasn't she?

[19:02] <Fred>Edith Prickley? Wasn't that the woman Kirk killed to stop her from helping Hitler?

[19:02] * senax scratches his head

[19:02] <growler> I was justb trying to change my name to "Ozymadias" so I could go "my name is Ozymandias, king of kings. Lokk upon my works and despair", but apparently that's not a thing I can do.

[19:03] <senax> use the nick command, growler

[19:03] * Fred is now known as Ozymadias

[19:03] <SpaceCowboy> Edith Prickley was the leopard-dressed station manager of the SCTV Television Network...

[19:03] <growler> never bothered to learn how to do IRC thingymies.

[19:04] <Ozymadias> my name is Ozymandias, king of kings. Lokk upon my works and despair

[19:04] * Ozymadias is now known as Fred

[19:04] <senax> All I see is a couple of stone legs :-)

[19:04] <Fred>First time I ever heard that was the end of an AVENGERS comice book

[19:05] <Fred>first appearance of ULTRON

[19:05] <senax> I think the peom was ref'd in Watchmen...

[19:05] <senax> er, peom

[19:05] <senax> poem

[19:05] <senax> I seem to have a typo stick in my fingers

[19:06] <SpaceCowboy> Just washed your hands and can't do a thing with 'em, eh, Senax? :)

[19:07] <senax> I should wash 'em. Just got done fixing a trailer; now I'm getting grease on the keyboard

[19:07] <Fred>grease is the word

[19:07] <senax> I beg to differ. Bird is the word.

[19:08] * lambert has joined #knownspace

[19:08] <lambert> hi all

[19:08] <senax> Hi Lambert

[19:08] <SpaceCowboy> Hi, Lambert.

[19:08] <lambert> how was today's chat?

[19:08] <lambert> brb AFK

[19:09] <Fred>I just got something wonderful in the mail!

[19:09] <SpaceCowboy> Sorry ... AFK? I've seen this a few times today but don't place it...

[19:09] <Fred>Away

[19:09] <Fred>From

[19:09] <Fred>Keyboard

[19:09] <SpaceCowboy> What, Fred?

[19:09] <growler> bought a new macbook last week. It arrived broke (DVD/CD didn't work), got it replaced, what arrived was obviously someones returned notebook with fingerprints and smears all over it.

[19:09] <lambert> <--back

[19:10] <growler> Have to say Apple's service is not impressing me.

[19:10] <Fred>the unreleased soundtrack to 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea

[19:10] <SpaceCowboy> KEWL! CD?

[19:10] <growler> 'unreleased'?

[19:10] <Fred>si

[19:10] <Fred>yeah

[19:10] <lambert> growler, you ordered directly from Mac?

[19:10] <Fred>they never released it

[19:10] <Fred>Disney made one internally

[19:10] <Fred>and it's 'leaked' out

[19:11] <Lensman> "All your tutorials are belong to us!"

[19:11] <Fred>WHALE OF A TALE!

[19:11] <Fred>Sing it, Kirk!!

[19:11] <lambert> hey Lensman.

[19:11] <SpaceCowboy> The Post Orifice must've zoned in on our earlier discussions of 20KL...

[19:12] <Fred>hee hee

[19:12] <lambert> I hate coming in late to these things. I have almost no idea what anyone is talking about

[19:12] <FrGeek> How long has c$d v10 been out?

[19:12] <Fred>came from Alaska

[19:12] <Fred>it's not out

[19:12] <Fred>just announced this week

[19:12] <Fred>pre order

[19:12] <lambert> then again... that's true when I am the first one here, too

[19:12] <Fred>but th demo is on their site

[19:12] <SpaceCowboy> We had long discussions about "20,000 Leagues Under The Sea" about two hours ago, lamb.

[19:12] <Fred>lambert, we've been discussing Niven, and star trek

[19:13] <Lensman> (Belated) LOL! Good one, Senax "Stone legs..."

[19:13] <Fred>and what Space Cowboy said

[19:13] <lambert> keen, at least you talk about Niven in the Niven chat room... any particular topics?

[19:13] <FrGeek> Yah, but wondering whenv11 will be out

[19:13] <senax> thx

[19:13] <growler> argh, Fridays episode of QI is STILL not available! How dare those P@P netwroks not give me what I want when I want it!

[19:13] <Fred>Q1

[19:13] <Fred>?

[19:13] <senax> eh?

[19:13] <lambert> Is Battlestar Galactica Season 2.5 out on DVD yet?

[19:14] <growler> QI = "Quite Interesting". Best - thing - on - TV!

[19:14] <lambert> <---doesn't have cable

[19:14] <Lensman> We had a very intense discussion about MKW stories and how everybody hated "A Darker Geometry". Unfortunately then we got off onto Trek again. And again.

[19:14] <Fred>oh. never heard of it.

[19:14] <Fred>ADG is why I stopped reading Man Kzin Wars

[19:14] <senax> I kind of liked ADG. Some of it, anyway.

[19:14] <lambert> I hated A Darker Geometry too. There, now I am "in."

[19:14] <growler> The first three series are widely available. On DVD too I imagine.

[19:14] <growler> QI is British, not a cable show.

[19:14] <lambert> I also disliked "One War for Wunderland." The whole book pretty much.

[19:15] <senax> Is "quite interesting" a TV show of some sort?

[19:15] <lambert> <---isn't British either

[19:15] <growler> Neither am I

[19:15] <senax> I'm 1/2 British

[19:15] <lambert> I'm 1/64th Welsh, for all the good it does me

[19:16] <senax> afk,damn pager. Grr...

[19:16] <growler> Oh hurrah, found torrents for the last two episodes.

[19:16] <Lensman> I really detested "The Survivor" too.

[19:16] <lambert> senex is a drug dealer. I knew it.

[19:16] <growler> They changed the name, my 'search' script couldn't find it.

[19:16] <Lensman> 1/64

[19:16] <lambert> The Survivor could have been a LOT shorter

[19:16] <Lensman> 1/64 Welsh? Here, have a leek! <Lensman ducks>

[19:17] <lambert> <---takes a leak

[19:17] <FrGeek> Only read one or two MKW books. could not get into moost of eth stories and ADG really broke the playground for me.

[19:18] <Lensman> My! So many question, so few looking at for the answers!

[19:18] <lambert> I liked "Iron," I wanted them all to be that good

[19:18] <Lensman> Battlestar Galactica 2.5 will be released next Tuesday, it looks like.

[19:19] <lambert> woohoo thanks Lensy

[19:19] <growler> Seen Heros epsiode 2?

[19:19] <lambert> 10/10 or 10/17?

[19:19] <growler> Er, 'Heroes'?

[19:19] <SpaceCowboy> I'm obviously out of touch ... I take it the MKW series is authored by others than LN?

[19:19] <FrGeek> Yes, so far its been quite good

[19:19] <Lensman> I really liked "The Children's Hour". So not all MKW stories (other than Nivens') are bad!

[19:19] <lambert> Cowboy, yeah, Niven opened the Man-Kzin wars up to other authors

[19:20] <growler> I like Hiro and the girl. The rest I"m not so interested in - don't want to suffer through their moody introspection.

[19:20] <lambert> The Children's Hour was good, for a "Casablanca" pastiche. Its sequels were weak

[19:20] <Lensman> And there was that one that started out like "Casablanca", don't remember the name tho. That was entertaining too.

[19:20] <lambert> That WAS "Children's Hour"

[19:20] <Lensman> Oh! The same one. <Rosanna Rosannadanna voice> Nevermind!

[19:21] <lambert> DOn't you mean Emily Litella?

[19:21] <growler> QI is like "Have I got news for you", "mock the week" and "8 out of 10 cats" - escept better than them.

[19:21] <lambert> "What's all this about busting schoolchildren?"

[19:21] <Lensman> Ah! Someone who knows his SNL! I know that's not really Rosanna but everyone says it is.

[19:22] <lambert> Growler, so you're saying this show I've never heard of is similar to, but better than, three other shows I've never heard of. Yes?

[19:22] <Fred>which brings us to "anybody watching STUDIO 60"?

[19:22] <growler> Heh, here's an example of how popular QI is - it's torrents are so well seeded it's arriving at 8MBps.

[19:22] <Lensman> Nope.

[19:22] <growler> Exactly.

[19:22] <lambert> Studio 60 is "Boston Legal" set in a TV studio.

[19:22] <lambert> Growler, thanks for the clarification. *grin*

[19:22] <FrGeek> What is QI?

[19:22] <Fred>Or THE WEST WING set in a TV studio

[19:23] <Fred>it would need THE SHAT to be "Boston Legal"

[19:23] <growler> What all those shows have in common is this: Get together a bunch of very witty, clever and fundementally funny people and give them topics to bandy about.

[19:23] <lambert> Lensman, you have my permission to bitch-slap the next person who confuses Emily and Rosanna

[19:23] <lambert> "fundamentally funny" is an assumption

[19:23] <SpaceCowboy> Oh, lordy, I knew someone would bring The One True Shatner up sooner or later ...

[19:23] <growler> Mix the right people, seed their conversation cleverly and you get intensely entertaining and enjoyable TV

[19:24] <lambert> Shatner? I barely touched her!

[19:24] <growler> It's a thing the Brits have a particular skill at.

[19:24] <SpaceCowboy> LOL, lambert!

[19:24] <growler> Like the U.S can do big dance numbers without looking like tossers.

[19:24] <growler> It's a talent.

[19:24] <Lensman> Man-Kzin Wars XI was released 3 days ago.

[19:24] <lambert> Oh, Growler, I thought you were talking about Studio 60 et. al. I love a good Talking-Brit-Head show

[19:25] <growler> Am enjoying Studio 60 too.

[19:25] <lambert> I've had Man-Kzin Wars XI (hardcover) on my shelf for months, Lensy

[19:26] <lambert> Did Larry show up today? Did y'all bore him to tears?

[19:26] <Lensman> Oh sorry... that was Oct 4, 2005.

[19:26] <lambert> Lensman, oops! Don't let a little thing like "year" get in your way

[19:26] <Lensman> Larry hasn't shown, at least not as "Larry" or "Organlegger".

[19:27] <lambert> I think Uberchorn is Larry

[19:27] <growler> Don't know why someone would comapre Studio 60 to Boston Legal - it's obviously not intended to be so frivolous

[19:27] <Lensman> Well tanj why did someone ask if MKW XI was out yet? Did you mean in paperback or what?

[19:27] <Lensman> Hey uberchorn are you there?

[19:27] <lambert> Oh, I didn't see anyone ask but I just got here

[19:28] <lambert> Boston Legal had a drug sub-plot. Clearly not a frivolous show.

[19:28] <Lensman> Well I did say a while ago that if Larry was here I had some questions regarding chronology but no one responded.

[19:28] <FrGeek> Cheech and chong had drug subplot too, did not make them secious

[19:28] <FrGeek> serious;)

[19:28] <Lensman> I enjoy Boston Legal, altho I don't watch it regularly.

[19:29] <growler> QI is orgainzed like a quiz show hosted by Stephen Fry - the 'objective' of the guests is to give interesting answers, no points for being right, but penalties for being boring or predictable.

[19:30] <SpaceCowboy> I found a truly silly movie called "Shoot Or Be Shat" ... er, "Shot." Talk about typecasting! :)

[19:30] <lambert> WHen will QI be available Stateside?

[19:30] <uberchorn> I am definitely not larry

[19:30] <uberchorn> I'm just an idling bastard

[19:30] <SpaceCowboy> Is QI available as a webcast, growler?

[19:31] <growler> No idea - it hasn't ever been shown in NZ which I just don't understand. It can't be expensive to buy but I gaurantee would be a rating winner.

[19:31] <growler> Well, maybe not in the U.S - it might seem, well, a bit elitist

[19:31] <SpaceCowboy> Are you Kiwi, growler?

[19:31] <growler> yes

[19:32] <growler> It's possible - here's it's own website...

[19:32] <SpaceCowboy> Kewl! Another cherry busted. You're the first person I've chatted with from down under!

[19:32] <Lensman> I can parse "uber" but not "chorn", and an online Deutsche dictionary doesn't grok it either.

[19:34] <uberchorn> :)

[19:34] <uberchorn> as in c. horn

[19:34] <lambert> spacecowboy, you're fairly new to all this then?

[19:35] <SpaceCowboy> New to the Niven chat? Yes, relatively speaking. Phandom, no ---

[19:36] <SpaceCowboy> My first pro-pubbed illustration was in the Ballantine "Star Trek Concordance" back in '76.

[19:37] <uberchorn> I'm a newbie, here

[19:37] * Tanada has joined #knownspace

[19:38] <Lensman> Uber, are you one of our webmasters?

[19:38] <SpaceCowboy> And Frank got a *lot* of mileage performing my filk, "The Wreck of Apollo XIII" (AKA "The Ballad Of...")

[19:38] <Lensman> SC: I had a copy of that back in the day. Is the illo in the new Citadel Press edition?

[19:39] <growler> I use the launch sequence from "Apollo 13" to test my sound system when I change any part of it. Not because it's a particularly good source, but because any escuse to watch again is good by me.

[19:39] * Tanada has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)

[19:39] <Lensman> Apollo 13... is that to the tune of "Edmund Fitzgerald?

[19:41] <SpaceCowboy> Unknown, Lens, I hadn't heard of a new version. I almost hope not, the only illo that survived to the Ballantine version was the worst of the 15 or so I did for the 3rd Season Supplement fan version. (And I never got a farthing in royalties or even a contributor's copy from Bjo ...) And yes, Lens, that's the one. Leslie Fish fairly butchered it, Frank has always performed it the way I wrote it.

[19:43] <SpaceCowboy> I think it was fairly cool of Gordon Lightfoot to allow them to use the music gratis...

[19:45] <Lensman> I know I've heard "Apollo XIII" sung. And I do think the lyrics to both that and "Edmund Fitzgerald" are great, but unfortunately the fact the entire song is sung on only about 5 notes drives me positively bonkers about the third verse. I spoze I should quit complaining and write a different tune, huh?

[19:46] <Lensman> But, the "unreleased" 20,000 Leagues soundtrack. Are you saying it's gonna be released as a legal CD soon? Or is this a bootleg thing?

[19:46] <Fred>koff*bootleg*koff

[19:48] <SpaceCowboy> I'm green, Fred. I have a couple of the vinyl "Forbidden Planet" soundtracks (unopened, no less!) but I don't know if that was released or just escaped.

[19:48] <Fred>no idea

[19:48] <Lensman> LOL!

[19:49] <lambert> Speaking of Frank, any word on Peggy? I've been offline all day

[19:49] * senax is back (damn pager)

[19:50] * Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye has joined #knownspace

[19:50] <Lensman> He said "she responds to pain". I must have missed an update. Is she being kept under sedation? Or what?

[19:50] <Fred>I can't scroll back far enough to what frank said about peggy

[19:50] <Lensman> Fred, you have a PM.

[19:50] <senax> He didn't respond when I said I hoped she was doing better. I hope that's not a sign of bad things...

[19:50] <Fred>I didn't understand the 'pain stimulus' message either

[19:50] <Fred>he was very tired

[19:51] <lambert> Hey, can I ask a favor? Can we do an ID check-in? I'm Dave Lambert, fan but non-pro, age 34, Hoboken NJ

[19:51] <Lensman> I was afraid to ask... that sounds like she may be in a coma? Hope not!

[19:51] <senax> What is this, AOL :-)

[19:51] <FrGeek> He said she was feeling soem pain so she is under some mild sedatives,

[19:51] <CatPasswd> A/S/L???

[19:51] <uberchorn> Lensman, I'm not a webmaster for

[19:51] <lambert> Senax, LOL, I just want to know who people are!

[19:51] <Lensman> David Sooby, but I prefer Lensman or Lens as there are too many Daves here already; 51, fan and never a pro, Kansas City KS.

[19:52] <lambert> Cat, just A/L, I knoew we're all guys here LOL

[19:52] <growler> I've played in sports teams where 90% of the players wer 'peter'.

[19:52] * senax is Frank Mango, Omaha, Nebraska. Been a Niven fan for over 25 years, been on the list for dunno, 7 or 8

[19:52] <uberchorn> growler, are you danish?

[19:52] <lambert> you Kiwis and your peters....

[19:52] <CatPasswd> Paul Mahon. 42. Computer geek in Detroit.

[19:52] <CatPasswd> I AM the answer

[19:52] <growler> nz

[19:53] <uberchorn> hrm!

[19:53] <SpaceCowboy> William R. Warren, Jr. --- professional illustrator, Ellensburg Washington. (Mostly Analog and Alfred Hitchcock's these days...)

[19:53] <growler> yeah, there's lots 'n lots of Peters around.


[19:53] <Fred>um

[19:53] <Fred>no, I don't

[19:53] <Fred>:(

[19:53] <lambert> Cat, IBM or a car company?

[19:53] * lambert has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)

[19:54] <uberchorn> Chris Horn, aka chorn -- Man about town

[19:54] <Lensman> Fred: Can I e-mail you? Or will you e-mail me at

[19:54] * lambert has joined #knownspace

[19:54] <CatPasswd> I work at HP, supporting large unix systems for Defense Logistics Agency.

[19:54] <uberchorn> that's hot

[19:54] <lambert> keen

[19:55] <Fred>I'll email you

[19:55] <CatPasswd> mostly various flavors of hpux and solaris.

[19:55] <senax> LOL, I work for Nortrop Grumman, supporting obsolescent Unix systems for the Air Fore Weather Agency.

[19:55] <uberchorn> I hate having a job and company that take too long to explain

[19:55] <senax> Give or take a couple of letters...

[19:55] <uberchorn> As hobbies I'm a professor and EMT

[19:56] <SpaceCowboy> Good hobbies, those!

[19:56] <growler> I've rendered myself entirely unfit for being a companies employee

[19:56] <senax> Professor is a hobby? Impressive!

[19:56] <lambert> growler, you and me both

[19:56] <FrGeek> Yah, what in?

[19:56] <nick_danger> I'm me

[19:56] <uberchorn> well, if I keep at it my kids should able to attend univ of rochester (ny, usa) fer free

[19:56] <Fred>you're ruthless

[19:56] <Fred>(I wonder where Ruth is . . . )

[19:57] <SpaceCowboy> lambert, did you get a private note?

[19:57] <nick_danger> "Nancy, we're going to Greece"

[19:57] <FrGeek> I teach high school physics as a hobby not quite teh same thing ;)

[19:57] <nick_danger> "and swim the English Channel?"

[19:57] <lambert> Space Cowboy, SOMETHING popped up but i missed it, try again?

[19:57] <nick_danger> frgeek, Hey, I failed high school physics, or was that Chemistry... Hmmm...

[19:57] <uberchorn> ... it can only barely be called professoring

[19:57] <nick_danger> But that's all behind me now.

[19:58] <SpaceCowboy> "No, to ancient Greece where" .... er, nevermind.

[19:58] <FrGeek> I only swimm teh channel on on saturdays. I like to take it easy.

[19:58] <senax> Ya gotta put your behind in your past!

[19:58] * nick_danger walks out of the fog, and into the smog.

[19:58] <Lensman> "Michael Baldwin-- this is Bruce. Michael Baldwin-- this is Bruce. Michael Baldwin-- This is Bruce." "Is your name not Bruce then?" "No, it's Michael." "That's going to cause a little confusion." "Yeah. Mind if we call you Bruce, just to keep it clear?"

[19:58] <growler> high school physics was my worse grade - but then I've never cared for academia much

[19:58] <uberchorn> speaking of Greece, I need to buy some retsina

[19:58] <SpaceCowboy> QUERY: How well does everyone know Mr. Gasperik?

[19:58] <uberchorn> Lensman, dropping the monty python AND red dwarfisms

[19:58] <uberchorn> in one night!

[19:59] <FrGeek> "Need"? Intersting word to use regarding retsina

[19:59] <uberchorn> oh, i like retsina :)

[19:59] <growler> Biggest moth I've ever seen I saw in Greece (south of Athens, near the temple of Poseidon).

[19:59] <CatPasswd> hitchikers guide.

[19:59] <CatPasswd> retsina

[19:59] <CatPasswd> :)

[19:59] <lambert> I've read about Frank in "N-Space." Chatted with him BRieFLY online . Never met him.

[19:59] <senax> Ditto (about Frank)

[20:00] <senax> He's kind of an institution.

[20:00] <uberchorn> I don't really know anyone here, not yet anyhow

[20:00] <FrGeek> You knwo you are geek if you have friends you never met ;)

[20:00] <lambert> Frank sent me a LONG e-mail about Bussard Ramjets when I asked him

[20:00] <Fred>lol

[20:00] <lambert> uberchorn, you;re in rochester?

[20:00] <uberchorn> yep

[20:01] <nick_danger> i'm sure I have met Frank at a con or two

[20:01] <SpaceCowboy> Well, I don't know how much of this is for general dissemination, but the news about Peggy is not good.

[20:01] <nick_danger> I am also sure I was too drunk to remember

[20:01] <Fred>it didn't sound like it Space

[20:01] <lambert> how far is that from NYC?

[20:01] <uberchorn> not much in the way of cons in WNY

[20:01] <Fred>didn't sound like she was conscious

[20:01] <uberchorn> Rochester is ~6 hrs

[20:01] <Lensman> I don't know Frank personally. BE WARNED this chat is archived, so don't say anything you'll regret later!

[20:01] <uberchorn> I'm afraid I don't know who Peggy is

[20:02] <senax> :-(

[20:02] <lambert> uberchorn, bleah. I am trying to find nearby NIven fans. Baltimore fandom is closer than you are!

[20:02] <lambert> Frank, if you're reading this, you know my prayers are with you!

[20:02] <FrGeek> I'm in Flordia, really isolated, but I hope to make Baltacon.

[20:02] <senax> Lambert, that's kind of what I was doing with my post about cons on the list.

[20:03] <Fred>Uber, Peggy is Frank (aka HarryRed)'s wife

[20:03] <lambert> where are you Senax?

[20:03] <Fred>she was having surgery, including having her stomach removed, this week

[20:03] * senax is in Omaha, NE

[20:03] <lambert> Oh I remmeber

[20:03] <lambert> I want to have at least ONE other person to meet with to sign "The draco Tavern"

[20:04] <Lensman> Seanax: Did you get your question answered? Sorry if I wasn't much help. If you like, I can ask for recommendations on my local list and pass them along. I just thought you might enjoy chatting with some KC fans and ask the question yourself.

[20:04] <SpaceCowboy> She apparently suffered a massive stroke during surgery, and they didn't find out until after they took her off the anesthesia.

[20:04] <senax> NJ should be fairly close to some other list members

[20:04] <lambert> "fairly close" seems to = Baltimore

[20:05] <senax> Lens, I replied to your email an hour or so ago. You were helpful, thanks.

[20:05] <Lensman> I know there is one con in Nebraska, put on by some kids, but I can't remember the name. Kaxfen who've gone up there have given it glowing reports as the kids are enthusiastic. A very small con.

[20:05] <uberchorn> thx Fred

[20:05] <senax> Lens, I think you're thinking of ConCussion

[20:05] <Fred>damn. poor frank.

[20:05] <SpaceCowboy> What Fred said.

[20:06] <Lensman> Senax: Okay, sounds like you already know about it.

[20:06] <Lensman> Senax: How far from K.C. are you?

[20:07] <senax> Concussion was started by University of Nebraska fen. Happened once in Lincoln, once in Council Bluffs, one in Omaha, then fizzled out, AFAIK. Just not enough local fen to support it. Too bad.

[20:07] <uberchorn> hrm

[20:07] <uberchorn>

[20:07] <uberchorn> no idea what that is like

[20:07] <senax> 'Bout 3 hrs, I think

[20:07] <Lensman> Seanax: Ah. Well that's the problem, since I don't go to out of town cons anymore I'm not current on what's going on.

[20:08] <growler> only time i ever tried to get to a convention I and a friend cycled 500 odds kilometers, caught a ferry to the other island, only to find it had been cancelled.

[20:08] <lambert> I tried to get into the NYC Comic-Con this summer but it was sold out. All the really good ones seem to be on the west coast

[20:08] <senax> I think I will go to the big con in KC next year...what's it called again?

[20:08] <growler> And that was mostly a film thing some , oh, getting on 30 years ago

[20:08] <Fred>I haven't been to a con in probably 15 years

[20:08] <growler> Today if want to see a film I certainly don't have to cycle 500 klicks.

[20:08] <FrGeek> Wow I did not hear about her stroke

[20:08] <lambert> Nexcty time I go to a con I will be INVITED.

[20:09] <senax> Most of the big ones are on one coast or another. :-(

[20:09] <Fred>heh

[20:09] <SpaceCowboy> NASFiC, senax.

[20:09] <Fred>I walked out of a con here once and right into a car that said 'fuzzy pink'

[20:09] <senax> lol

[20:09] <senax> Was it Marilyn Niven's car?

[20:09] <Lensman> ConQuesT is the biggest and longest-running con in K.C. Our group also runs a smaller relax-a-con in November, an adults-only con called Contraception. Generally called just "contra" in e-mails and such, in case someone's getting them at work!

[20:09] <Fred>that's my assumption senax

[20:09] <Fred>little sports car, california plates

[20:10] <FrGeek> And if they work for the goverment having e-mails labeled "contra" is better ;)

[20:10] <senax> Especially senators...

[20:10] <lambert> hee

[20:11] <Lensman> When Larry was here as GOH for ConQuesT I spotted the Fuzzy Pink license plate, too. My gosh, did they drive in from CA?? I hadn't really thought about that before. That's quite a drive!

[20:11] <uberchorn> my kids are too young for me to travel anywhere for fun

[20:11] <Lensman> No, this was a large car. Luxury-sized, I'd say.

[20:12] <Fred>this was 20, 25 years ago

[20:12] <growler> Google Earth is THE COOLEST THING

[20:12] <Fred>I suspect her plate migrated :)

[20:12] <Lensman> But Fuzzy didn't come with Larry. Carol was here, tho.

[20:12] <SpaceCowboy> Agreed, Growler!

[20:12] <uberchorn> are there any cons which are you know, selective?

[20:12] <senax> selective?

[20:12] <uberchorn> ;)

[20:13] <SpaceCowboy> Selective how?

[20:13] <lambert> couples only?

[20:13] <uberchorn> I'd like to avoid yer basic frothing trekker

[20:13] <senax> Ohh

[20:13] <senax> I feel for ya

[20:13] <Lensman> Any con that's labeled a "literary" con should avoid that.

[20:13] <senax> Marcon in Columbus. OH has a somewhat literary bent

[20:13] <senax> I met LN there once

[20:13] * nick_danger is now known as frothing_trekker

[20:13] <SpaceCowboy> Well, you'd be unlikely to run into many at SMOFCON ...

[20:13] <uberchorn> doh!

[20:14] <Lensman> Yah, SMOFCon is about as non-media con as you can get!

[20:14] <FrGeek> Couples? That woudl leave me out. And I am not a frothing trekkie, OK may I build up a lather once in a while but never froth

[20:14] <uberchorn> I like Trek as well as any sane, objective person.

[20:14] <Fred>so you don't like Trek?

[20:14] <uberchorn> ha!

[20:14] <Lensman> But unless you're planning to help throw WorldCon, there's not much point to going to SMOFcon.

[20:14] <senax> LOL, that means not Enterprise then

[20:14] <SpaceCowboy> FRED! Behave!

[20:14] <Fred>hee hee

[20:15] <uberchorn> I really do like Trek, but I really dislike any discussions that try and make sense of the Trek universe

[20:15] <lambert> suppertime, I am outtie. See you on the list, all

[20:15] <Fred>I get to say stuff like that. I've stood on the bridge of Kirk's Enterprsie

[20:15] <Fred>night lambert

[20:15] <Fred>eat one for me

[20:15] <senax> See ya lambert

[20:15] <Lensman> I like Trek quite a bit, at least two of the shows. Liking skiffy fans... that's another category.

[20:15] <uberchorn> Within a single episode it's all good

[20:15] * lambert has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)

[20:16] * Fred is now known as Fred_afk

[20:16] <SpaceCowboy> Trek always held a warm place in my heart ... Roddenberry got me in touch with my first fan club when I was a soph in HS.

[20:16] <Fred_afk>going into lurk mode, see if I can entertain Mom any

[20:16] <senax> The ones who have a fanwanking rationalization for every continuity error kinda get on my nerves.

[20:16] <uberchorn> As soon as the poors fans get wrapped up in making excuses for the writers finding a trek canon completely impossible.

[20:16] <Lensman> Ohhh I'm jealous. I didn't discover fandom-- or rather vice versa-- until I was in college.

[20:16] <Fred_afk>hey, I resemble that remark, senax

[20:17] <Fred_afk>:)

[20:17] <Fred_afk>my rationalizations tend to be 'the writer was an idiot' though

[20:17] <Fred_afk> full lurk in

[20:17] <Fred_afk>3

[20:17] <Fred_afk>2

[20:17] <Fred_afk>1

[20:17] * frothing_trekker is now known as nick_danger

[20:17] <SpaceCowboy> I was really surprised at the continuity error in "First Contact". (Error? More like "Fatal Flaw"!)

[20:17] <Fred_afk>LURK

[20:17] <senax> The odds are better with that one, Fred.

[20:18] <Lensman> Well some of us on the Niven list are guilty of trying to fanwank every continuity error in Known Space. Of course, there are a lot FEWER errors in KS than on the various Trek shows.

[20:18] <Fred_afk>damn it

[20:18] <uberchorn> I really wanted the next Trek series (instead of Enterprise) to be one where you had a crew stranded on a planet with a 99% destroyed ship

[20:18] <Fred_afk>I'm tryng to lurk

[20:18] * senax bites his lip

[20:18] <Fred_afk>you're sucking me back in

[20:18] <Lensman> Er, yah, making Stephen Cochrane a Terran is a bit more than a minor continuity error!

[20:18] <Fred_afk>Zephram

[20:18] <Fred_afk>ack! I geeked!

[20:18] <Fred_afk>and, yes

[20:18] <Fred_afk>plus

[20:19] <Fred_afk>they added a third world war

[20:19] <Fred_afk>that's wrong

[20:19] <uberchorn> Some of my favorite scifi is about the loss of the infrastructure our society depends on

[20:19] <Lensman> Oops! Alright I confess I'M NOT A TREKKIE!! <sob!>

[20:19] <Fred_afk>Spock says the Eugenics War of the 1990s was the LAST world war

[20:19] <uberchorn> Footfall really, really moved me

[20:19] <growler> You should like "Survivors" then

[20:19] <SpaceCowboy> No, I mean if it had been anybody but the Vulcans, they might *might* have gotten away with it. But Cochrane could *not* have been there to greet the Vulcans.

[20:19] <uberchorn> I wanted to see what happens to Trek in the same space

[20:20] <Fred_afk>No, Cochrane is wrong, the war is wrong, everything about First Contact is wrong

[20:20] <Fred_afk>Braga was still bragging he'd never seen an episode of real Trek at the time

[20:20] <senax> Except the tequila ;-)

[20:20] <FrGeek> I really liek the idea of a series about early star fleet, but they botche dit so

[20:20] <Lensman> And yet it was the last *good* Trek movie!

[20:20] <Fred_afk>It was the only watchable TNG movie, certainlyl

[20:20] <Lensman> Ohhhh boy did they botch Enterprise!

[20:21] <Fred_afk>must . . . . . lurk . . . . . must

[20:21] <growler> It was barely bearable.

[20:21] <uberchorn> I really felt like Braga moved the franchise into a "What would Ronald Reagan's presidency do in outer space?"

[20:21] <Lensman> Fred: Give in to the dark side of the fandom!

[20:21] <growler> Wrath of Khan was the only good Trek movie, with Search for Spock almost making the grade.

[20:21] <FrGeek> The monet they said that was going to be "hotter" with more sexual content I knew the shark was circling

[20:21] <senax> It was the Borg Queen that screwed up First Contact for me.

[20:21] <SpaceCowboy> But the Phoenix didn't look aerodynamic at all ... and to suggest that they abandoned the warp frame in orbit to land in the command module is ludicrous.

[20:22] <uberchorn>

[20:22] <senax> Khan was the best...Undiscovered Country would be 2nd.

[20:22] <Lensman> Senax: "Yes, yes! With yours my figures do agree."

[20:22] <SpaceCowboy> Agreed, senax.

[20:23] * senax is preaching to the choir

[20:23] <uberchorn> I would argue that Scotty was the only good engineer

[20:23] <SpaceCowboy> He sure did a good job of hiding that finger!

[20:23] <uberchorn> hehehee

[20:24] <Lensman> Well you could have about knocked me over with a feather when in an early episode of NextGen, Picard said to run something by "one of our chief engineers". HUH?? How many do y'all have??

[20:24] <uberchorn> too many chiefs

[20:24] * Harry_Redd has joined #knownspace

[20:25] <senax> title inflation...everybody who's not a trainee gets to be called chief

[20:25] <Lensman> Well Scotty is the only engineer worth mentioning, anyway.

[20:25] <growler> Hmmmm, I can't seem to get Google Earth to honour the ALtitude in a KML file as it should,

[20:25] <uberchorn> Scotty never explained a problem more than the bare minimum necessary

[20:25] <Harry_Redd> Hi All.

[20:25] <SpaceCowboy> Welcome back, Felix.

[20:25] <senax> WB Frank

[20:25] <Lensman> I wondered if they mean "engineering chiefs" and the actor mangled the line.

[20:25] <FrGeek> First episode of NG is though greata kid and robot, its lost in space. But you have to admit NG got better

[20:26] <uberchorn> hey Frank

[20:26] <senax> Geez I haven't watched any trek in years

[20:26] <uberchorn> I was just talking about how much I liked Footfall, and they all turned on me

[20:26] <Lensman> Oh yah. I got really tired of all Geordie's technobabble. That was most definitely one area where Scotty had him all beat to heck.

[20:27] <Harry_Redd> One thing about TOS, they had a better actor for the part too.

[20:27] <SpaceCowboy> I saw a webcast of "The New Voyages" from New York somewhere ... mighty impressive!

[20:27] <growler> Lucas has recently said the market for $200 Million dollar films is too uncertain (what with piracy and all), and it makes more sense to make 6 ~ 8 cheaper TV films. See, piracy and copyrioght violoations creates more, not less, content.

[20:27] <Lensman> No, I don't admit that NextGen got better than the pilot, on average. There were a few standout episodes-- but other than their Klingon episodes, ONLY a few. The batting average for a seven-season show was abysmal.

[20:27] * senax liked Footfall a lot

[20:27] <Fred_afk>I was annoyed at how badly they all treated Scotty on TNG -- you'd think SOMEBODY would just LOVE to meet the legendary Montgomery Scott.

[20:28] <Fred_afk>and, what Lensman said about TNG

[20:28] <SpaceCowboy> True, their Kirk looks like Elvis, but hey, he's fronting most of the money so he can get away with it.

[20:28] <FrGeek> But they did do homage to the "its green" line one of the classic lines in all of trek

[20:28] <Fred_afk>yes

[20:28] <SpaceCowboy> YES!

[20:29] <Lensman> Oh, you want more stuff like the "Ewok" movies and "The Young Indiana Jones"? No thanx. Sometimes less *is* more.

[20:29] <senax> Who..what...?

[20:29] <Fred_afk>but nobody on the ED except Picard ever even HEARD of a Dyson Sphere

[20:29] <growler> Hmmm, new desing on the "New Voyages" website.

[20:29] <Fred_afk>you realize this means none of them have read Ringworld?

[20:29] <SpaceCowboy> And in general conversation I use " bloody A, B, C, or D" when discussing TOS 1701

[20:29] <Fred_afk>yes

[20:29] <FrGeek> Oh "young Wesley crush on the planet of the tribbles"

[20:29] <uberchorn> Fred, I think a lot of people place "a lifetime of experience" on a lower peg than "current experience"

[20:29] <growler> Argh! But the episode is STILL not available.

[20:30] <Fred_afk>but with 1000 people

[20:30] <Harry_Redd>

[20:30] <Harry_Redd> n;;;;;;;;;;

[20:30] <Fred_afk>hey harry

[20:30] <senax> You OK, Frank?

[20:30] <Lensman> Oh yah, I just wanted to punch Geordie in the nose for his condescending attitude towards Scotty. But then that's one of the BIG problems I had with NextGen. Why did they *never* refer to the Legendary Voyages of Kirk's Enterprise?!?!

[20:30] <Harry_Redd> [[[[[[[[[[[[

[20:30] <Harry_Redd> [

[20:30] <Harry_Redd> [[

[20:30] <Harry_Redd> [

[20:30] <Harry_Redd> [

[20:30] <uberchorn> Frank??

[20:30] <Fred_afk>they did a couple times, Lens, but not much.

[20:30] <senax> Frank, try logging out and back in. We're getting noise here.

[20:31] <FrGeek> DS( did a good job of it in their tribble episode

[20:31] <Harry_Redd> Stickey stuff on the Keyboard.

[20:31] <Fred_afk>In 'The Naked Now" their incompetent doctor failed to cure something McCoy had left her the bloody cure for

[20:31] <SpaceCowboy> Stuck keyboard, Frank?

[20:31] <uberchorn> oh phew

[20:31] <Fred_afk>DS9 tribblees was great

[20:31] <Fred_afk>how can you go wrong with Dax in that red skirt?

[20:31] <uberchorn> I was little concerned you were trying to type with an alternate appendage

[20:31] <SpaceCowboy> Gerrold showed up as a RedShirt in that one.

[20:32] <Harry_Redd> Not really.

[20:32] <Fred_afk>fondling a triblle

[20:32] <senax> I only ever saw a couple eps of DS9. I've heard it was pretty good; one of these days I'll try to catch more of it.

[20:32] <SpaceCowboy> I'd fondle Dax's tribble any day!

[20:32] <Harry_Redd> When it comes to LUCAL, I'd like to see something on the lines of THX again, but not a remake

[20:32] <growler> Problem with Dax was the actress was too good looking - in the absence of better writing for her to work with really what were we going to thinking about with her on screen?

[20:32] <Lensman> NO NO NO!! The Tribble episode was DS9! Yah that was a WONDERFUL show! But of course NextGen couldn't do anything that clever.

[20:32] <Fred_afk>I think DS9 is the second best Trek, but then I'm a fan of Avery Brooks

[20:32] <Fred_afk>he said that Lens

[20:33] <Fred_afk>:P

[20:33] <Fred_afk><FrGeek> DS( did a good job of it in their tribble episode

[20:33] <Lensman> Actually he said DS(... I missed that.

[20:33] <Fred_afk>just sorta typoed the '9'

[20:33] <senax> I quit watching DS9 when I saw my first Ferengi. Couln't get over the staggering goofiness of their appearance. I'll try again some time.

[20:33] <FrGeek> Yes, in Becker they she looked alot more ordinary. Got to do more acting. Best acting she got to do in DS( was the time they did that episode of Brigadoon

[20:34] <Fred_afk>argh. brigadoon

[20:34] <Fred_afk>you had to mention brigadoon

[20:34] <SpaceCowboy> Technically very challenging --- I agree, they pulled it off very well. It was fun watching Dax pelt Kirk with tribbles.

[20:34] <growler> good ye olde movie

[20:34] <Lensman> Feringi are treated as comedy relief in DS9. And I found that *much* more enjoyable than their appearance on NextGen.

[20:34] <Harry_Redd> I actuyally liked DS 9 But VOYAGER was StarTrek 90201.

[20:34] <Fred_afk>yes, ferengi on TNG were just annoying

[20:35] <Lensman> Some of the best comedy shows ever were DS9 featuring the Feringi.

[20:35] <Fred_afk>ferengi on ENTERPRISE were offensive

[20:35] <Lensman> What Fred said!

[20:35] <uberchorn> dammit

[20:35] <Harry_Redd> Not to mention that Armon Shimmerman is one of the better actors around.

[20:35] <uberchorn> did I get us on Trek?

[20:35] <senax> I never saw them (Ferengi) on TNG. But I watched it pretty irregularly.

[20:35] <Lensman> 90210.

[20:35] <Fred_afk>Shimmerman is on Boston Legal right now

[20:35] <Fred_afk>Kirk, Odo, Quark, and neelix

[20:35] <Fred_afk>all on BL

[20:35] <Lensman> Uber: Oh who cares? We're enjoying the conversation!

[20:36] <Lensman> Yah it's a real Trek alumni show!

[20:36] <uberchorn> :)

[20:36] <Harry_Redd> I havent cought Bost on Legal, However I wouldn't mind seeing a Show about Lawyers in Space. :-)

[20:36] <Fred_afk>Mom keeps asking if THE SHAT is the one inviting the Trek actors on BL

[20:36] <Fred_afk>But I don't know if he knows any of them

[20:36] <uberchorn> Harry, I think the muppets had that already ;)

[20:36] <growler> I was always happy when a DS 9 episode was a Quark or Odo episode. Depressed when it was a Jake, Dax or Kera epsiode.

[20:37] <Fred_afk>now wait

[20:37] <Harry_Redd> Ther was a book called Legal Star I think. About a Lawyer practicing Space Law. He based on Ceres. :-]

[20:37] <Fred_afk>what if it was a sexy leather mirror mirror dominatrix Kiar episode?

[20:37] <Lensman> Odo was by far my favorite Trek character, aside from the Classic crew.

[20:37] <growler> There was that Century 21 show a couple of years back that attempted to be an SF LAwyer show.

[20:37] <Lensman> Kira!

[20:38] <FrGeek> Garak

[20:38] <SpaceCowboy> Nerys *was* creepy and very hot in that one, Fred.

[20:38] <uberchorn> I think there was a lawyer in Ice Pirates

[20:38] <growler> Whatever, the boring chick.

[20:38] <Lensman> Yah I enjoyed the dominatrix Kira. (No I didn't mean enjoyed her THAT way!)

[20:38] <Harry_Redd> CENTURY CITY? Yeah, but it stank.

[20:38] <growler> Not as hot as the evil Willow.

[20:38] * Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye has quit IRC (Quit: Quit)

[20:39] <Lensman> Garak was a fun character. I always enjoyed shows with him 'cuz they waited and just used him when he'd acually add something to the show.

[20:39] <growler> Hmmm, Deep Sapce 9 alla epsiodes = 54.33 GB

[20:39] <uberchorn> when does Willow go evil in the movie?

[20:39] <growler> Movie?

[20:39] <FrGeek> are you kidding, the evil kira almsot made me break my vow of celibacy!

[20:39] <growler> Evil Willow in Buffy the Vampire slayer

[20:40] <uberchorn> oh

[20:40] <SpaceCowboy> Vampire 90210...

[20:40] <uberchorn> I thought you meant the movie, and I was a little weirded out

[20:40] <Lensman> Actually I found Kira really irritating and annoying most of the time. As the show progressed it seemed I got more used to her. Then I saw a rerun of the first season-- Wow! Her voice was like fingernails on a chalkboard! No, I didn't get used to her, she just toned down the irritations.

[20:40] <FrGeek> LOL oh that woudl be kind creepy

[20:40] <growler> Gonna go watch QI now.

[20:40] <uberchorn> I knew people that referred to her as Major Hooters

[20:41] <SpaceCowboy> Nice meeting ya, Growler.

[20:41] <Lensman> Evil Willow in a MOVIE?? Heretic! Throw him out of the room!

[20:41] <senax> later growler

[20:41] <Lensman> Seriously, you wanna talk GOOD TV, Buffy blows ALL the Trek shows away. MILES away.

[20:41] <Harry_Redd> I'd like another FIREFLY.

[20:41] <uberchorn> amen.

[20:42] <growler> Whedon has stated recently:No more Firefly, ever.

[20:42] <senax> Firefly was good. Haven't seen the movie yet.

[20:42] <Harry_Redd> I could never get into Buffy. BUt then, I'm not into Vampires at all anyway.

[20:42] <SpaceCowboy> There was a short-lived jerked-around series I thought promising a couple of decades ago ... "Otherworl", I think. Mark Lenard was a regular.

[20:42] <Lensman> No more Firefly? Was that before or after he said Firefly would return in some form, either feature films or TV movies?

[20:43] <Harry_Redd> Something like Firefly then.

[20:43] <Lensman> Buffy is one of those shows that are heavy on continuity, so if you don't watch from the beginning you'll be lost.

[20:43] <uberchorn> I think it was after it do well at the box office, but before it did awesome on DVD

[20:43] <growler> Recent news - apparently Serenity's returns weren't good enough and everyone has moved on.

Whedon has said there's no chance of committing to more as the opportnity has been lost. It's in the past now.

[20:43] <Harry_Redd> I liked B5 though. Once again, it was too good for NetZekc and the like to understand.

[20:44] <uberchorn> NetZekc?

[20:44] * senax liked b5. Still haven't seen most of the movies though.

[20:44] <SpaceCowboy> Groundbreaking use of Amiga animations there, Harry.

[20:44] <Lensman> Well that's too bad as Serenity was an excellent film, and richly deserved the Hugo it got. I never could get into the TV show but I would have enjoyed more in the vein of that movie.

[20:44] <growler> Ciao (BTW - latest update Google Earth has fixed a problme with altitudes in KML files - should it matter to anyone).

[20:44] <uberchorn> I miss my Amiga

[20:44] * growler has quit IRC

[20:44] <senax> KML? Wazzat?

[20:44] <Fred_afk>next time

[20:44] <Fred_afk>hold your breath

[20:45] <Lensman> I presume NetZek = Network Execs.

[20:45] <Fred_afk>and squeeze the trigger

[20:45] <uberchorn> oic

[20:45] <senax> lol Fred

[20:45] <FrGeek> B5 got butcher in editing when they had to rewrite the ending becuas ethey may have been renewed

[20:45] <Lensman> Yah I really enjoyed B5 also, particularly starting with the second season when the stories became less juvenile.

[20:45] <SpaceCowboy> Quartermain: "TOO SHOON!"

[20:45] <senax> Seasons 2-4 were great

[20:46] * senax is now known as Zathras

[20:46] <Fred_afk>Lens, I love buffy.

[20:46] <Fred_afk>you have the original pilot?

[20:46] <Fred_afk>with portly willow?

[20:46] <Lensman> Yah it's too bad they had to truncate the storyline at the end of season four, but that wasn't the producer's fault. Who was that? JMS? Doesn't sound right...

[20:47] <Zathras> Zathras like season 5 too. But Zathras tell Zathras that network threw JMS too many curvy balls. Zathras sad...

[20:47] <FrGeek> "YOu cannot run out of time. Tiem is infinate. Space is inates, you are infinate. This... zathras doe not knowwhat this is...

[20:47] <Lensman> All I have is seasons 1-3 on DVD. Not sure I've even seen the "original pilot" whatever that means.

[20:47] <Fred_afk>b5 is JMS

[20:47] <Fred_afk>there's an original pilot with a slightly different cast

[20:47] <Fred_afk>different willow

[20:47] <Lensman> Okay it is JMS but I can't remember what the initials stand for.

[20:48] <Fred_afk>J michael Strazinsksisinsisissiski

[20:48] <uberchorn> b5 is JMS + Amiga ;)

[20:48] <Harry_Redd> The problem with B5 was, no kid, no dog and no robot.

[20:48] <Lensman> Thanx Fred.

[20:48] <Fred_afk>A lot of people stop BUFFY at season 3

[20:48] <SpaceCowboy> Please, Harry, you're invitinbg the OPld Ghods to strike...

[20:48] <Fred_afk>Me, I stop at season 5

[20:49] <Zathras> Zathras will be OK, though. Zathras have Firefly, Futurama, oh wait...

[20:49] * Zathras is now known as senax

[20:49] <FrGeek> The kid dog and robot will be but in in the "enhanced version";)

[20:49] <Lensman> The new BG seems to be getting along without that terrible trio just fine. :)

[20:49] <SpaceCowboy> LOL, FrG!

[20:49] <Harry_Redd> Yeah.

[20:50] <Lensman> I like Buffy at least thru season 5. Haven't gotten more on DVD cuz I'm poor, not cuz I don't like the show.

[20:50] <Harry_Redd> *Thinks producers stopped learing Television with LASSIE.

[20:50] <Lensman> Correction: I ABSOLUTELY LOVE Buffy thru season 5! Best stuff on TV until BG!

[20:50] <SpaceCowboy> I picked up "The Prisoner" boxed set (A&E) for a song ... awesome!

[20:51] <Lensman> "For a song"? Guess I should have waited. When I bought my Prisoner DVDs they were by far the most expensive per-episode DVDs I'd ever bought.

[20:52] <Lensman> But I and some other Laser Rangers have gotten good use out of them, so I spoze I shouldn't complain.

[20:52] <FrGeek> The prisoner was a good show- the last episode was written while on drugs but a good show

[20:52] <SpaceCowboy> I think I got the 10-DVD set for $35.00. One disk opened but pristine, the rest were still shrinkwrapped.

[20:52] <Lensman> SC: E-bay?

[20:52] <SpaceCowboy> Affirm

[20:53] <SpaceCowboy> Oops, sorry, wrong... Amazon.

[20:53] <Lensman> The last ep certainly wasn't the ONLY one that looked like it was written on drugs!

[20:53] <Lensman> Used copy at Amazon?

[20:53] <SpaceCowboy> "Schizoid Man" still ranks at the top of my list.

[20:54] <SpaceCowboy> Yes, Lens. Beside the picture there's generally a link that says "Used starting at ..."

[20:55] <SpaceCowboy> 2nd-party sellers, Amazon hosts the link. Order through Amazon.

[20:55] <Lensman> It was interesting that McGoohan kept denying it was a sequal to his earlier series "Danger Man" (IIRC) but there were all these very clear links in the opening of the show.

[20:56] <SpaceCowboy> He maintains to this day that Number Six was not John Drake.

[20:56] <Lensman> The Prisoner fan site, Six of One, speculates McGoohan had to say that for legal reasons.

[20:56] <Harry_Redd> And There was the movie where Drake sacrifices a Japanese fishing village on ORDERS to ccomplet4e his mission.

[20:57] <Lensman> 'Cuz he didn't have the rights to Danger Man. But the car was the one he drove in that show, and the photo you see getting XXX'd out is a pubilicity still from "Danger Man"... I forget what the other links to the older show are.

[20:57] <SpaceCowboy> Why, Lens? Didn't he produce "DM" and "Secret Agent"?

[20:58] <SpaceCowboy> Or didn't Sir Lew Grade exec produce both?

[20:58] <SpaceCowboy> I know the Lotus showed up in Secret Agent a time or two...

[20:58] <Lensman> I dunno, but even if he produced them the studio still owned the rights. He apparently resigned angrily from "Danger Man", and THAT is referenced in the opening of "The Prisoner" too. I don't know why he resigned.

[20:59] <Lensman> "Why did you resign? We want information... information... information..."

[20:59] <SpaceCowboy> Nobody does, Lens ... that's the raison d'etre of the series! ;)

[20:59] <Harry_Redd> See my above comment.

[21:00] <Lensman> Oh the fishing village thing got McGoohan upset?

[21:00] <SpaceCowboy> The whole price of the DVD set was worth getting to see "Living In Harmony" for the first time! NEW PRISONER! WOO HOO! (Well, new to me.) Talk about episodes on drugs!

[21:01] <Lensman> See I know nothing about any of this, I've never seen an episode of "Danger Man" or "Secret Agent". It's just what I've read.

[21:01] * SeanS has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)

[21:02] <Harry_Redd> Lens, You missed some very good shows for the day. The music in the shows is quite good too.

[21:02] <Lensman> Ahhh "Living in Harmony". The only episode never shown on American TV. I think it was the drug use??

[21:02] <SpaceCowboy> I remember Secret Agent but never saw the "Danger Man" incarnation.

[21:02] <SpaceCowboy> You *know* it, Dave!

[21:03] <SpaceCowboy> Funny they didn't censor "Schizoid Man" for the same reason ...

[21:03] <Lensman> Were "Danger Man" and "Secret Agent" shown here in the states? Of course it may depend on what market you grew up in. I wanted to slap whoever on the list said I didn't know what I was talking about with Joe 90 and Capt. Scarlet never being shown in the States. Well all I can say is: I never met anyone who's seen them!

[21:04] <Harry_Redd> Both were on broadcast TV Lens.

[21:04] <Lensman> SC: You clearly are under the delusion that TV censorship is rational. :)

[21:04] <SpaceCowboy> No, I'm not.

[21:05] <Lensman> Both what? The Patrick McGoohan shows, or the Gerry Anderson ones?

[21:05] <Lensman> BRB

[21:06] <SpaceCowboy> Anybody who'd say Barbara Eden can't show her navel is obviously not on the same side of the platform as the rational train of thought...

[21:06] <Harry_Redd> Truly.

[21:06] <SpaceCowboy> I never saw Joe 90 (or even heard of it) or Captain Scarlet, but I loved Supercar and Fireball XL5

[21:07] <SpaceCowboy> I moved to Hawaii and thus missed "Thunderbirds" too.

[21:07] <SpaceCowboy> And I wish I'd missed the William Frakes version.

[21:08] <SpaceCowboy> William? No, Jonathan.

[21:08] <Harry_Redd> Frakes did ok as the voice over in GARGOYLS.

[21:09] <SpaceCowboy> The old made-4-TV movie? Or something new?

[21:09] <Harry_Redd> An even older Animated TV series. The plots weren't bad either.

[21:10] <Fred_afk> Space Cowboy, you like SUPERCAR?

[21:11] <SpaceCowboy> Ah, animation is such a wasteland these days. The poorly-executed cheap anime'-inspired knockoffs are so awful.

[21:11] <FrGeek> Yah yes, supercap, nor robot but a kid and they did have a monkey iifc

[21:11] <SpaceCowboy> Yes, Fred! I even have a couple of models I can use in Poser and MAX.

[21:11] <Fred_afk>kid and a monkey

[21:11] <Fred_afk>lol, space, are you on the yahoo SUPERCAR group?

[21:12] <Lensman> LOL that was funny in Roddenberry's failed pilot "Genesis II" the mutant women had TWO navels 'cuz he wasn't allowed to show any in Classic Trek!

[21:12] <SpaceCowboy> I don't believe so, but I should be. I think the story postings about "Mastercar" frosted my pumpkin a bit.

[21:13] <Fred_afk>is 'frosted pumpkin' good or bad?

[21:13] <SpaceCowboy> I wish they'd bought into "Questor." I thought it showed promise.

[21:13] <SpaceCowboy> Bad, Fred.

[21:13] <Fred_afk>roddenberry says they wanted to dump the sidekick from Questor

[21:13] <Fred_afk>so it would be just like THE FUGITIVE

[21:14] <Fred_afk>I wish they picked up SPECTRE

[21:14] <uberchorn> my wife is making me watch 'RV'

[21:14] <FrGeek> has the tanglewood pilot aired yet?

[21:14] <Fred_afk>Okay, space cowbody, incoming urls

[21:14] <Fred_afk>

[21:15] <SpaceCowboy> That was fun, too. With Culp in the lead, Ellison would surely have written an episode or two. (Well, wait ... when did Gene and Harlan finally bury the hatchet over "City"?)

[21:15] <Fred_afk>

[21:17] <Fred_afk>Harlan is still mad about City AFAIK

[21:18] <Fred_afk>but Gene brought him in to write TMP

[21:18] <Lensman> I remember Fireball XL-5, Supercar, Stingray, Thunderbirds, UFO. And then unfortunately Space: 1999. Like I said, I never met anyone (I mean face to face) who said he's seen Joe 90 or Capt. Scarlet. Maybe they were shown in some US markets, but clearly not in this part of the country.

[21:18] <SpaceCowboy> He told me he and Gene settled their differences long ago, this was about '78.

[21:18] <Fred_afk>he pitched a great story that they ripped off for both Star Trek 4 (the whale one) and Star Trek 8

[21:19] <Fred_afk>it's documented in Stephen King's Danse Macabre, in the longest footnote in history

[21:19] <Harry_Redd> I just got an E-Mail from Larry. He tried to join the chat but got the # of users error message. S*I*G*H

[21:19] <Lensman> Is there any TV show Harlan was involved with that he is NOT still mad about?

[21:19] <Fred_afk>lol

[21:19] <Fred_afk>is he mad about B5?

[21:19] <senax> The chat server limits the number of users online?

[21:19] <Fred_afk>tell him to try again Harry?

[21:20] <Fred_afk>we had more than this earlier

[21:20] <Lensman> THere was a limit earlier today of 10 until Sean fixed it.

[21:20] <Harry_Redd> Yupper, Just sent it.

[21:20] <Fred_afk>cool

[21:20] <SpaceCowboy> Did we hit 15? I noticed in the "STATUS" button that the limit was 15.

[21:20] * Alex has joined #knownspace

[21:20] * Fred_afk is now known as Fred

[21:20] <Harry_Redd> Yeah At the start of the chat, The server limit was 10 users. Now it's set at 100.

[21:20] <SpaceCowboy> Hello, Alex.

[21:20] <Alex> Hi

[21:21] <Harry_Redd> Hi Alex

[21:21] <Lensman> The story I heard, dunno if it's true, is that JMS listed Harlan as a favor to Ellison altho he had little if any input into the show. If that's true then perhaps even Harlan will find little to complain about. Perhaps. <

[21:22] <Alex> Have I missed Organlegger?

[21:22] <SpaceCowboy> Thanks for the URLs, Fred. I haven't had an opp to try it yet, but I found a Supercar for Flight Sim 2004.

[21:22] <Lensman> Larry hasn't been here at all today.

[21:22] <Fred>yeah, that's probably from Austin Tate's site

[21:22] <Harry_Redd> According to Harlan, He had some rather interesting input. Those little "Indulgences" Refrences to old SF and Urban Myth came about because of him but that's hearsay.

[21:23] <Harry_Redd> No Alex. He couldn't get in but might try again later.

[21:23] <Fred>remember harlan announcing he was going to do a sequel to DEMON WITH A GLASS HAND on B5?

[21:23] <Alex> OK.

[21:23] <Fred>and was annoyed when Culp's agent called him the next day?

[21:23] <Alex> You talking about B5

[21:24] <Fred>yeah

[21:24] <SpaceCowboy> Phil Klass told us a great story about Harlan and the tall redhead in the elevator ... LOL!

[21:24] <Fred>I mean, geez, why WOULDN'T culps agent call you?

[21:24] <Harry_Redd> dURBAN MYTH. That was suppose to of happened at IGGY.

[21:24] <Lensman> SC: Ah yes, Harlan even tells the elevator story on himself!

[21:25] <Alex> Anyone like _Shaun Of The Dead_?

[21:25] <SpaceCowboy> Harlan wrote "Demon" for Culp and Arlene Martel, and specified where he wanted it shot, got his wishes all the way around. He said "Demon" was his best TV experience before or since.

[21:25] <Fred>cool

[21:26] <Lensman> Well that story is one of those that, if it's not true, it *ought* to be! Like the Bob Tucker "Rosebud!" story.

[21:26] <Harry_Redd> Truly.

[21:26] <SpaceCowboy> Sorry ... "Rosebud"?

[21:26] <Lensman> I *love* Shaun of the Dead! Guess what title is one of the two we're doing for Halloween Laser Rangers?

[21:27] <Fred>Army of Darkness?

[21:27] <SpaceCowboy> I loved AoD ... very silly! (Another of Dragon Dronet's projects.)

[21:27] <Alex> The makers latest mie is 'Hot Fuzz': funny video blogs here:

[21:28] <Alex> *movie

[21:29] <senax> Shaun of the Dead was pretty good--I loved the ending.

[21:29] <Alex> You seen _Spaced_ Lensman?

[21:30] <Lensman> Rosebud, okay. Bob had a reputation for being quite a swinger back in the day. He was on a double date with another couple and, thru circumstances which I forget, they wound up with no access to a bedroom. Anyway, they wound up at a local park, where Bob was having his lass on the bench of a picnic table. At the moment of climax, he yelled out "Rosebud!"

[21:30] <Alex> ^URL got chopped, here it is again

[21:31] <Alex>

[21:31] <SpaceCowboy> Tsk tsk ... that Tucker. What a smoooothie!

[21:31] <Lensman> Now that's the way the story *should* be told. Bob confessed to me once that actually, tho, he only *thought* of yelling that out, he didn't actually go thru with it.

[21:31] <SpaceCowboy>

[21:32] <Lensman> I don't think I've told that story well. It was at night, and as it was in a semi-public place, naturally his date wanted to keep things quiet.

[21:33] <SpaceCowboy> You mean his "niece"? ;)

[21:33] <SpaceCowboy>

[21:34] <Lensman> LOL! You mean you know about Tucker's "neices" but never heard the Rosebud story??

[21:34] <SpaceCowboy> Guilty as charged.

[21:34] <Lensman> Tch, tch, the youngsters these days, there's so much they aren't taught by their elders!

[21:35] <SpaceCowboy> I'm flattered ... nobody's called me a youngster since I passed 50...

[21:37] <SpaceCowboy> BIOBREAK! I haven't moved since about 1230 except to get coffee, and that's exascerbating the situation. BRB

[21:38] <Lensman> Well here's one bit of Bob Tucker trivia that I'm betting NO ONE on the Niven list knows. Y'all may know of his "Smoooth!" rituals, but do you know where Bob got the inspiration for that?

[21:39] <Fred>Mother Tucker?

[21:39] <SpaceCowboy> Do tell, Lens!

[21:41] <SpaceCowboy> I don't think my autographed Beam's Choice bottle survived the move. Sadly.

[21:41] <Harry_Redd> A pity that SC.

[21:41] <Lensman> It was a Red Skelton faux commercial in "Zigfield Follies", a variety show done as a movie. In it, Red is selling "Guzzler's Gin". As he's going thru his routine telling how great it is (meanwhile holding his nose while drinking, making faces of disgust, etc) and quickly letting sloshed. The skit ends with him holding up two fingers in a "V for Victory" symbol, and uttering the word "Smoooooth!" as he slides under the table.

[21:42] <SpaceCowboy> Phun Stuph!

[21:42] <Fred>:)

[21:42] <Harry_Redd> ;-)

[21:43] <Lensman> Y'know, as old as "Zigfield Follies" is, it *may* be in the public domain. Maybe I should agitate for someone to post that routine to "You Tube".

[21:43] <Fred>I think the only Red Skeleton material I own is THOSE MAGNIFICENT MEN IN THEIR FLYING MACHINES

[21:43] <SpaceCowboy> So, when did Bob pass away? I don't recall seeing it in the Chronicles, and would think it would've been there...

[21:43] <Lensman> Yesterday. I announced it on the LN list.

[21:44] <SpaceCowboy> Ah. So very "new" news. Dang. Thanks, Dave.

[21:44] <Lensman> Chronicles has been spotty lately. Not every weekday as it used to be. And hardly a surprise Pinky would take a day off for mourning...

[21:44] <Harry_Redd> A true shame that. I didn't know Bob well, But once, he read some of peggy's poetry and liked it.

[21:44] <SpaceCowboy> True.

[21:45] <SpaceCowboy> He was a real original.

[21:45] <Lensman> Yah, a true shame. Not that I'm really surprised, Bob's health hasn't been good and he lost his wife not long ago. And he hasn't been in the Dawn Patrol chat for months, so I knew he was feeling poorly.

[21:46] <SpaceCowboy> I was worried about him when Fern died. I mentioned the "Hume/Jessica" bit to Roger once. Sorry I wasn't too far from the mark.

[21:47] <Lensman> I don't parse "Hume/Jessica".

[21:48] <SpaceCowboy> Hume Cronyn/Jessica Tandy. Think " *batteries not included "

[21:48] <Harry_Redd> My Mother only survived my Father by one year.

[21:49] <Lensman> Coincidentally enuff, I had my "Bob Tucker: Fan of the Century" ish from when I was the editor of our clubzine pulled out and laying beside my computer, as it has part of my "KaCSFFS Space Opera" in it. So when I got the news, naturally I picked it up and looked thru it to remind myself...

[21:51] <SpaceCowboy> I first met him a Wichacon 1. Saw him again at the 84 Worldcon -- Walt Leibscher was with him most of the weekend.

[21:51] <Lensman> I guess you mean one may not survive the death of a spouse for long. Yah. Well my grandpa didn't *die* soon after Grandma passed, but within a few months he no longer looked like a healthy, well preserved man-- he became a stooped, shrunken one. He did live for several years afterwards, but he certainly wasn't the same man.

[21:52] <SpaceCowboy> I feel bad for Pinky. He loved the ol' guy like I loved Kelly. And Ted Sturgeon.

[21:52] <Fred>Mom's coming up on 5 years since Dad died in a couple weeks

[21:52] <Fred>I'm amazed she's made it this long

[21:53] <SpaceCowboy> Be grateful, Fred.

[21:53] <Harry_Redd> I first met him at Igguana Con. Got "Smoothed". Then we got a chance to talk later at a Pro (ACE) Party. I liked him from the start. After that, we met at a few other cons. Not for long conversations, but good ones.

[21:53] <Lensman> Well I guess we were really lucky at ConQuesT 'cuz Bob came every year, or nearly so, until his health became so bad he rarely left home. The last time I saw him was when a bunch of us went to Bloomington for a combo Tucker family reunion/micro-con. "If Tucker can't come to the con..."

[21:53] <SpaceCowboy> Bob swung a mean story, that's for sure.

[21:53] <Lensman> That was a few years ago.

[21:54] <Lensman> Bob was a True Gentlemen, one of the best storytellers who ever lived, and one of fandom's founding fathers. His contributions to fandom just can't be overstated.

[21:54] <FrGeek> OK I give up. What is the "smooth" ritual?

[21:55] <Lensman> Bob was a True Gentlemen, one of the best storytellers who ever lived, and one of fandom's founding fathers. His contributions to fandom just can't be overstated.

[21:56] <Harry_Redd> I think Tucker was involved in "And his Blaster spewed a stream of Lead" story.

[21:56] <SpaceCowboy> A bottle of Beam's Choice is passed around the room, everyone takes a swig and holds it and raises a hand. When all hands are up, a toast is proposed, the liquor is swallowed and everyone agrees the subject of the toast is "smooo-oooyh!"

[21:56] <SpaceCowboy> With a sweep of the hands.

[21:57] <Lensman> Harry: That one I don't know.

[21:58] <Lensman> Altho that's funny just by itself!

[21:58] <SpaceCowboy> Bulwar-Lytton Science Fitton! Er, Fiction.

[21:58] <Harry_Redd> Took place back in the 30's. Many SF Writers wrote for all the pulps. Mystery, Ghost, Western etc... They'd get together and play poker.

[21:59] <Lensman> There are so many stories one could tell about Tucker... he contributed *very* heavily to fanzine letter columns back in the day, so much so that he invented a wide range of pseudonyms. Perhaps the best one was "Hoy Ping Pong", whose "Engrish" was not so good, in a hilarious manner.

[22:00] <Lensman> Anyway, for one of the very early cons here in K.C. our GoH was Wilson Tucker, our Fan GoH was Bob Tucker, and the Toastmaster was Hoy Ping Pong...

[22:00] <SpaceCowboy> Way to cut down on transportation costs for attending guests, I suppose!

[22:01] <Lensman> Yup :)

[22:02] <Harry_Redd> SAInce the standard acceptance price in those days was about $.02/Word it became common for a writer who busted out, to retire to another room, bang out a few thousand words and give it to another writer to put his name on for Cahs at the table... One writer who specalized in Westerns made a deal with an SF writer for a story in exchange for $15. At the Payoff in the last couple paragraphs, where the Hero confront's the villian cam the line:

[22:02] <Harry_Redd> And his Blaster spewed a Stream of Deadly Lead". :-)

[22:02] <Lensman> LOL! Good story, Harry.

[22:02] <SpaceCowboy> I hope I can get finances sufficient to attend NASFiC in 07.

[22:03] <Harry_Redd> I got that story from Len Moffatt BTW.

[22:03] <Lensman> Well that will be cheaper than going to Japan, that's for certain!

[22:03] <SpaceCowboy> Verily.

[22:04] <senax> I was looking forward to going to the Worldcon in Columbus...

[22:04] <senax> ...til Osaka won.

[22:04] <senax> :-(

[22:04] <Lensman> Since K.C. is bidding for the '09 WorldCon, and since they're now on a two-year cycle, that means some locals here *have* to go to Japan!

[22:05] <Lensman> I think that's the third time Columbus has lost a WorldCon bid, and never won. The first time was K.C. in '76...

[22:05] <SpaceCowboy> Have you set up a "TAFF/DUFF"-style phan phund to help in that regard, Lens?

[22:06] <Lensman> No, actually I'm not actively involved with the bid. I was involved with an earlier bid for '06 but we lost to L.A. (

[22:06] <Lensman> (Well, obviously by now)

[22:07] <SpaceCowboy> How is KC in the same region as LA?

[22:07] <Lensman> The better known fan funds are for fanzine publishers. That is, they may *say* they're open to anyone, but in reality only fanzine editors have a real chance of winning those.

[22:08] <Harry_Redd> Truly Lensman. However MAFF and MPFF are open to anyone. ;-)

[22:08] <Lensman> SC: Sorry, your info is out of date. The rotating "three zones" has been eliminated. The rules now only state that a WorldCon bid has to be for a city at least 500 miles away from the last winning bid.

[22:09] <SpaceCowboy> *BUT* if you can subsidize sending some KC reps to Osaka, you improve your chances of throwing a successful bid party or three...

[22:09] <Lensman> Harry :)

[22:09] <Lensman> Now that Virgin Galactic will be starting tourist flights to space, maybe we can get a MTFF (Mid Troposphere Fan Fund) started.

[22:10] <SpaceCowboy> I didn't know the rotation bit had been phased out. Thx.

[22:11] <Lensman> Yah, that was a few years back. I was participating in the SMOFS e-list for a year or so during the KC in '06 bid, so I got en edjekashun!

[22:13] <Lensman> Actually, the number of Americans at foreign worldcons (not incl. Canada) is always fairly low, and with the cost of travel/hotels in Japan will be even lower. So it's the mail-in ballots which will almost entirely decide the issue at Nippon.

[22:14] <Lensman> Nippon OTOH has a HUGE fanbase, so their WorldCon attendance may be very high. But I doubt many native Japanese will pay the fee to vote in site selection. Unless they're planning to travel to the U.S., there would be no point to them paying to vote.

[22:15] <Lensman> At least that's the way the central bidding committee here sees it. Hope they don't get an unpleasant surprise! Or maybe I do... the last WorldCon in K.C. just about killed our club.

[22:16] <Lensman> But no, not really. I do support the bid by word if not with my wallet, and I will work on the WorldCon if an when it comes to K.C. But I *am* worried about the effect it will have on our club.

[22:16] <SpaceCowboy> How was that, Dave?

[22:17] <Lensman> I presume you mean how was it that the previous WorldCon just about killed the local club?

[22:17] <SpaceCowboy> Affirm

[22:18] <SpaceCowboy> The "Seattle in 1981" loss sure cemented Northwest Phandom together. I think Norwescon still throws "Seattle in 81" bid parties.

[22:19] <Lensman> A huge feud developed in the concom. After the con, there was no newsletter for the club for 3 months, and I'm not sure there were even any meetings. When the club did start up again, there were only 15 members on the rolls, and for the number who showed up at a meeting, we could and did meet sitting on someone's front porch. 7-8 was the usual attendance.

[22:20] <SpaceCowboy> "Sponsored by the Northwest Science Fiction Society and Pacific Northwest Time Tampering Association..." --- sounds a bit like the "Garret/Non-garret" feud in Phoenix phandom in '78...

[22:21] <Lensman> But KaCSFFS did recover. We've had as many as 125 paid members, altho in the past few years we've shrank somewhat to about 85. People are getting older, and parents are spending more time with their kids. Of course that's not just the local club, that's nationwide. Moaning and hand-wringing on SMOFS was a frequent thread.

[22:21] <Fred>We had a feud?

[22:21] <Fred>and nobody invited me?

[22:21] <SpaceCowboy> That's the way I heard it from Tim Kyger, Fred.

[22:22] <Fred>The Yahoo groups have these weird feuds too

[22:22] <Fred>I don't get it

[22:22] <SpaceCowboy> Good for you. It's best to keep it that way.

[22:22] <Fred>There was a purge on one of the TOM SWIFT groups. All the 'heavy hitters' got booted

[22:22] <Fred>like me

[22:22] <Lensman> Any large social organization is in danger of splitting, and feuds are one symptom of that.

[22:22] <Fred>and a similar thing on the TIME TUNNEL group

[22:23] <Fred>I guess the owners are threatened or something

[22:23] <SpaceCowboy> Now there's a show I haven't thought of for a long time...

[22:23] <Fred>yes, I have cgi time tunnel models too :-)

[22:23] <Lensman> Someone on the comic strip collecting group list I'm on came on recently and said he and his clique had all left another collectors' list, and invited us to join his new list. I dunno what that was about, and frankly I don't care.

[22:24] <Lensman> I never saw Time Tunnel when it was on. Maybe it was on the one of the three networks we didn't get in central Kansas.

[22:24] <SpaceCowboy> Irwin Allen was such a mensch (am I using that properly? I could just say "dork"...)

[22:24] <Fred>

[22:24] <Fred>early attempts

[22:24] <Lensman> Or maybe it was on when my parents or sister had a regular show they watched.

[22:25] <Alex> I watched TT in the UK - did they ever get home?

[22:25] <Fred>no

[22:25] <Harry_Redd> A Mensch is a Good person.

[22:25] <Fred>although it seems they may have shot a 'got home' sequence

[22:25] <FrGeek> Did you see teh quantuum leap final?

[22:25] <Lensman> Mmmm.. not sure but doesn't "mensch" mean "man", in a complimentary fashion? Maybe you mean "schmuck".

[22:26] <Fred>stills and behind the scenes movies of it exist

[22:26] <Fred>but it never aired, and it's unclear what it was for

[22:26] <Alex> Ah.

[22:26] <Fred>there's footage of them in the tunnel, surrounded by smoke and (probably) prehistoric foliage

[22:26] <Harry_Redd> Or if you want the Extreame, a Shmeckel. I'jewish by ingestion. Had more than a few Jewish girlfriends!

[22:27] <Fred>the thinking is, they're running from a dinosaur, and suddenly they're home . . .

[22:27] <Alex> At least _The Fugitive_ found the one-armed man in the end.

[22:27] <Fred>yep

[22:27] <SpaceCowboy> Yes, FrG ... brought tears to my eyes. That was a great show!

[22:27] <Lensman> I won't claim to have had much exposure to Yiddish, or Jewish culture. Just a small-town WASP boy, here.

[22:27] <senax> Yah, mensch is yiddish AFAIK. Usually connotes "a good stand-up guy"or the like.

[22:28] <FrGeek> Yah yiddish for a good guy

[22:28] <Lensman> I thought the finale on "The Fugitive" was simply appalling. Such a wonderfully written show, and any one of the episodes I saw was 10 times better written than the finale. What a letdown!

[22:28] <SpaceCowboy> You ingested Jewish girlfriends, Frank? (A man after my own heart ...)

[22:29] <Harry_Redd> There was a show about a toy maker who built gagets for the "CIA" and other gov agencys. The Best episode was one written by Steve Barnes about a sentient Robot designed to explore Jupiter. That episode brought tears to My eyes!

[22:29] <SpaceCowboy> I understand there were two different "final episodes" of the Fugitive.

[22:29] <Harry_Redd> Only certain Fluids SC. :-)

[22:30] <Alex> Dont remember it clearly Lens - seemed OK at the time

[22:30] <Lensman> Are we still talking about The Fugitive? Robots? Jupiter?

[22:30] <Lensman> OVERSHARING!!

[22:30] <Alex> I'm confused too

[22:30] <Harry_Redd> IN this case Not TREK Well written or poorly written episodes of TV shows I think.

[22:31] <Lensman> Are you talking about "The Invaders" perhaps?

[22:31] <SpaceCowboy> CIA? Robots? Huh?

[22:31] <Fred>I loved THE INVADERS

[22:31] <Lensman> The Fugitive was a straight drama with no stfnal elements, at least the episodes I saw.

[22:32] <Harry_Redd> It stared David Rappaport. The Dwarf from THE SECRETE POLICEMAN'S BALL. Hell of an actor.

[22:32] <SpaceCowboy> I wasn't terribly disappointed with the 1995 miniseries of the Invaders ... it was fun seing Roy Thinnes again.

[22:32] <Fred>Space, the only difference I know of between the 2 finales of THE FUGITIVE are the date that William Conrad announces

[22:32] <Lensman> David Jansen (sp?) was The Fugitive.

[22:32] <Fred>it ran on a different date in Canada, and they recorded different narration

[22:33] <Fred>William Conrad was The Fugitive announcer, Lens

[22:33] <SpaceCowboy> Rappaport suicided shortly after "Time Bandits", I understand. Tired of not being taken seriously as an actor.

[22:34] <Lensman> David Rappaport? Dwarf? Was he a guest star? He was neither the protagonist nor the villain in the finale of The Fugitive.

[22:34] <Alex> OH bedtime for me

[22:34] <Alex> 'night folks

[22:34] * Alex has quit IRC

[22:34] <SpaceCowboy> I think we're all talking at cross purposes here. I don't think Rappaport was ever on "The Fugitive" and I still wonder where the CIA robots come from.

[22:34] <Harry_Redd> Rappaport was The TITAL STAR I think the series was called something like The TOY MAKER.

[22:35] <Lensman> Very odd how film titles we've recently done, or are doing soon, for Laser Rangers keep coming up. We just did "Time Bandits" a couple of months ago.

[22:36] <SpaceCowboy> TB was wonderful! Gilliam is underrated!

[22:36] <Fred>harry, are you talking about THE WIZARD?

[22:36] <Lensman> No, scroll back up, he's talkng about "The Toymaker". A show I never heard of.

[22:36] <Harry_Redd> Ah YES Fred. That's the puppy!

[22:36] <Fred>:)

[22:37] <SpaceCowboy> Even just directing ... "12 Monkeys" is another favorite. And "Brazil."

[22:37] <FrGeek> Oh I loved brazil

[22:37] <Fred>The Wizard was sort of a benign Dr. Migolito Loveless

[22:37] <Lensman> I can't say Gilliam really appeals to me, altho I did like "The Fisher King" enuff to buy the DVD. "Time Bandits" is certainly fun in spots, but overall doesn't really work for me.

[22:37] <Harry_Redd> It had some pretty good writing but suffered from poor production. Again, a producer who didn't understand what was suppose to be going on.

[22:38] <Lensman> A lot of Laser Rangers love "Brazil" altho I am not one of them. 12 Monkeys-- ick!

[22:38] <senax> 12 Monkeys was great, Lens!

[22:38] <Fred>which version of brazil? there are at least 4 of 'em

[22:39] <Lensman> Ah, Dr. Megolito (sp?) Loveless! A friend came over with the new first season of "The Wild Wild West" a few weeks ago, and we watched four episodes including two Loveless ones.

[22:39] <FrGeek> Definatly NOT the happy ending version.

[22:39] <Fred>yeah, good stuff

[22:39] <Lensman> senax: *shrug* to each his own.

[22:39] <Fred>(TWWW)

[22:40] <FrGeek> I goy the WWW DVD collectionfor my father. I grew up watching them together,

[22:40] <Fred>I wish they had a non ragged copy of the original pilot

[22:40] <Fred>and boy is Conrad hard to listen to now

[22:40] <Lensman> Well I spoze that's a case of film being lost. Entropy happens.

[22:40] <Fred>but it's a great show

[22:41] <SpaceCowboy> The Terry Gilliam version, Fred. Jonathan Pryce, Mike Palin,

[22:41] <Fred>the intros are annoying though. "Watch for the villian to be revealed as none other than guest star Leslie Neilsen!!!"

[22:41] <Fred>um - who thought THAT was needed?

[22:41] <Fred>Space, there are 4 distinct cuts of Gilliams BRAZIL

[22:42] <FrGeek> YEs but hey had 4 differnt cuts of Brazil. One was "happy ending version" for TV.

[22:42] <Fred>includeing the 'love conquers all' studio mandate

[22:42] <Fred>or, what geek said

[22:42] <Lensman> Wow, plot spoilers in the intro. Shoot the writer! Or was Conrad allowed to do whatever he wants for the intros? But hopefully it will let you chapter-forward past the intros.

[22:42] <Fred>no

[22:42] <Fred>you have to mute

[22:42] <Fred>and ride it out

[22:42] <Lensman> GAAA!!

[22:42] <Fred>yeah

[22:43] <SpaceCowboy> Ah. I know only of the one Gilliam played for the Film Critics (his version) which I take as *the* legitimate cut.

[22:43] <Fred>likely, space

[22:43] <Lensman> Now that you mention it, I *do* remember mentioning to Bill "It's a good thing we know this is a Loveless episode 'cuz Conrad just blew his cover!"

[22:43] <Fred>I've got one of those HUGE box laser sets with all the versions

[22:44] <Harry_Redd> I liked the original WWW. The Will Smith version required too much of a suspention of belief.

[22:44] <SpaceCowboy> Of Brazil, Fred?

[22:44] <Fred>oh god

[22:44] <Fred>yes, of brazil

[22:44] <Fred>"oh god" was to the will smith WWW

[22:44] <Lensman> I still find the whole fight inside the miniature house inexplicable. I guess my problem is trying to make sense of nonsense.

[22:44] <SpaceCowboy> Wow ... green again!

[22:44] <Fred>WWW is on my short list of "worst movies made from tv every"

[22:45] <Fred>ever

[22:45] <Lensman> Bad Fred! No cookie! Why did you have to bring up the awful Will Smith movie?!

[22:45] <Fred>hey, IT WASN'T ME

[22:45] <Harry_Redd> One of the things that really made the Original was Ross martin.

[22:45] <SpaceCowboy> The Will Smith version was infinitely forgettable.

[22:45] <Fred>harry started it!!

[22:45] <Lensman> Oh sorry I skipped past Harry's mention.

[22:45] <Harry_Redd> ITrue, I started it as a BAD Example.

[22:45] <Fred>hee hee

[22:46] <Fred>WWW is down there with The Avengers

[22:46] <Fred>oh, and

[22:46] <Fred>I hate to type the word

[22:46] <Lensman> STOP!!!

[22:46] <Fred>"Bewitched"

[22:46] <Fred>madre de dios!

[22:46] <Harry_Redd> Ah yes. WeBitched!

[22:46] <Lensman> Bewitched I missed. Or not, from the sound of it.

[22:47] <SpaceCowboy> *ANY* "Avengers" without Diana Rigg is blasphemy!

[22:47] <Fred>We got shiny new digital cable, and and a shiny new DVR, and it came with free premium, so we sat down and looked for something mom and I could watch together

[22:47] <Fred>we chose Bewitched

[22:47] <Lensman> I think The Avengers was a worse travesty than WWW. Or maybe it's that I'm an even bigger fan of *that* show. The Emma Peel DVD Megaset, yum!

[22:47] <Fred>it's an astoundingly bad film

[22:47] <Harry_Redd> I'd rater watch some of the Nick Addams Japanise/Italian SF Stuff from the 50's than any of the above.

[22:47] <Fred>oh, sure

[22:47] <Fred>like his Frankenstein

[22:48] <Lensman> And what's really boggling is it manages to be that bad with Sean Connery as the villain. Shoot the writers, I say! No, that's too quick.

[22:48] <Fred>yeah, how do you make a boring avengers movie with sean connery?

[22:48] <Fred>I did enjoy MacNee's cameo

[22:49] <SpaceCowboy> WHOA! I think we just had an earthquake!

[22:49] <Fred>is that a good thing?

[22:49] <Fred>and, where are you?

[22:49] <Harry_Redd> Sometimes, it's cameos that make a film. The moveie WATER has some really good ones.

[22:50] <Lensman> That was also during the period when the "If I were the Evil Galactic Overlord..." lists were making their rounds via e-mail, and a whole discussion thread started on KDL about the digital counters on movie bombs and why they were so stupid... and there was another big bomb with a huge digital counter in The Avengers.

[22:50] <Harry_Redd> SC, Go outside and look to the West for a sky glow.

[22:50] <SpaceCowboy> Well, the house isn't off its foundations, so it could be worse. Ellensburg WA, Fred.

[22:50] <Lensman> Yah, SC, where are you?

[22:50] <Fred>Ellensburg WA, Lensman

[22:51] <FrGeek> But "Its mam madm mad mad world had eth best

cameos. The scnec of the three stooges as the fire parment killed me. They did not even have to do or say anything.

[22:51] <Harry_Redd> Agreed. the Jimmy Duranti cameo was MARVELOUS in Mad Mad World!

[22:51] <Lensman> MMMMW didn't work for me. Too overblown, I guess. Or maybe the wrong kind of comedy. More likely, both.

[22:51] <Fred>he kicked the bucket

[22:51] <SpaceCowboy> None evident, Frank ... but we're overcast.

[22:52] <Lensman> Okay, I'll bite... what's the "Sky glow" about? You thinking volcano?

[22:52] <Fred>If you were in Jericho, you'd be able to see the 100 mile high mushroom cloud over denver

[22:52] <Harry_Redd> Nope. The Jonathan Winters line (After the bucket got kicked) Was, "That Feller's Dead!"

[22:52] <Lensman> Oh, you thinking WW III?

[22:53] <Fred>or hammerfall

[22:53] <Lensman> I guess I'm just not worried about that anymore.

[22:53] <Harry_Redd> Yupper. SC's East of the cascades and some reports say something is about to pop in that mascon.

[22:54] <Lensman> Was it here-- I mean on the Niven list-- someone reported that meteor in, where was it, Northern New Zealand as a live event? Prolly not, that was prolly on the War of the Worlds forum.

[22:55] <Harry_Redd> It was the LIST and it was UWEN.

[22:55] <Harry_Redd> He actually heard it.

[22:57] <Harry_Redd> Heads up SC.

[22:57] <Lensman> I did have an OMG WW III moment, quite some several years ago. I was in my apartment lying in bed, reading by the light filtering in thru the closed venitian blinds. Had been reading for hours when suddenly it got MUCH BRIGHTER outside! And stayed that way! What could it possibly be EXCEPT the light from a fireball over K.C.? My heart was going like a triphammer as I moved the blinds aside-- and discovered that the sun had just come out from behin

[22:58] <FrGeek> I guess i liek a IMMMW becuase my granfather loved it it so. He woudl bust a gut while waticng it... H esaid it wa steh first movie he eve saw when he came to the US so it has sentimential meaning for me

[22:58] <Lensman> Seems silly now, of course.

[22:59] <Lensman> Some types of humor just don't appeal to me. Unfortunately IAMMMMW falls into that category.

[22:59] <Harry_Redd> MMMMW is suppose to be Silly. Monty Python is silly. Lots of good humor is just plain SILLY!

[22:59] <FrGeek> The Simpsons fall in tha categlory for me.

[23:00] <Harry_Redd> FURUREAMA and FAMILY GUY too.

[23:00] <Lensman> I am quite fond of The Simpsons, have the first two seasons on DVD.

[23:00] <Lensman> Futurama doesn't really appeal to me, tho. And don't ask why, I dunno. It certainly has it's moments.

[23:01] <Lensman> Its moments, I mean. Grumble typo grumble.

[23:02] <SpaceCowboy> In my younger more foolish days, I was smoking a doobie with a friend in Seattle, looking out over Puget Sound. Suddenly Bremerton erupted in actinic flashes of light that literally filled half the sky. It turned out later that somebody knocked a power pole over into a power substation. It was mightily impressive, though!

[23:02] <Lensman> Wo-o-oah! Good sh*t, man! <g>

[23:04] <SpaceCowboy> we thought so ...

[23:04] <FrGeek> Yah, I was in Clark AFB when Mt pinetubo blew up. Powerstations and trnsformer were blowing up all over the place. Becuase of the ash it looke liek nearby sheet lighning a couple yards away, by boy coudl you feel and hear it

[23:05] <Fred>I remember watching Wallace and Ladmo (local kids show) as a wee lad and they suddenly broke in with a CONRAD ALERT

[23:05] <SpaceCowboy> 7:48:26 PM ... a a 4.0 earthquake at Mt. St. Helens

[23:05] <Fred>it was one of the standard tests, but -- they forgot to run the 'this is just a test' announcement

[23:05] <Fred>I went screaming for my parents, 'cause it was WW3 and all . . .

[23:06] <SpaceCowboy> Add a few minutes for the shock wave to get here, that's about right.

[23:07] <Harry_Redd> WRATH OF KAHN is starting (here) on SPIKE.

[23:08] <Harry_Redd> Magma moving ther I'd guess SC.

[23:08] <Fred>I shall leave you as you left me

[23:08] <Fred>as you left her

[23:08] <Fred>stranded in the center of a dead planet

[23:08] <Fred>BURIED ALIVE

[23:08] <Lensman> Fred, you have another private message.

[23:09] <Fred>"um, khan? I left you on a perfectly nice planet with shelter and supplies and food and all sorts of stuff"

[23:09] <Fred>"and you AGREED to it"

[23:10] <Fred>btw, Ricardo Montalban rocks on Kim Possible

[23:11] <SpaceCowboy> Numerous aftershocks. This is fun.

[23:11] <FrGeek> I love KP can wait for teh DVDs to coem out

[23:12] <Fred>new KP eps start this month

[23:12] <Lensman> Interesting how there were all those snide remarks about Ricardo Montlebahn's (sp??!) "plastic chest" and then on the DVD commentary we're assured that was all man! Sometimes the critics are stuffed full of wild blueberry muffins.

[23:13] <Fred>there are some dvds, but they aren't very good. they're theme collections, and they pan and scan 'em and cut off the openins and endings

[23:13] <Lensman> Kim Possible is done widescreen?

[23:13] <Fred>yeah, somebody on the electric image group was ragging on montalban's chest last week

[23:14] <Fred>yeah, KP is 16:9, surprised the heck out of me

[23:14] <Fred>they have one 16:9 ep on the DVD I've got, and it's got the opening in 16:9, and it's got extra stuff on the sides

[23:14] <Fred>but then the other 3 eps were 4:3 with no opening

[23:14] <Fred>very very annoying

[23:15] <SpaceCowboy> Nobody mentions Montalban's wooden leg ...

[23:15] <Fred>lol

[23:15] <Fred>I really really really liked "So the Drama"

[23:15] <FrGeek> And scotty's missing finger

[23:15] <Lensman> Well of course that's gonna become the standard eventually. Unfortunately the FAA refuses to give the broadcast stations a "hard" deadline-- or even set standards. "Oh, you guys work that out amongst themselves." Geez what part of "regulation" don't you understand?

[23:16] <Fred>btw, the new KPs take place AFTER 'so the drama'

[23:16] <Fred>and they're actually gonna acknowledge it

[23:16] <FrGeek> NEW KP????!!!!!!!!!!!!

[23:16] <Lensman> Scotty's missing finger? In joke I'm guessing?

[23:16] <Fred>lol, no

[23:16] <Harry_Redd> I am not sure. When the Government starts "Regulating" Things get screwed up.

[23:16] <Fred>Doohan got the middle finger on his .. . I think left hand

[23:17] <Fred>blown off in WW2

[23:17] <SpaceCowboy> First finger, right hand. Ends at the first knuckle. (Well, ended...)

[23:17] <Harry_Redd> Jim Duhan lost that finger in Normandy after D-Day.

[23:17] <FrGeek> Man don't tease me abot KP

[23:17] <Fred>when he got out of the hospital he went straight to a bar and ordered "3 drinks please"

[23:17] <Fred>holding up 2 fingers

[23:17] <Fred>I'm not teasing about KP

[23:17] <SpaceCowboy> Actually, Harry, I heard it was a gardening accident.

[23:17] <Fred>you can clearly see the missing finger in TRIBBLES

[23:18] <Fred>he's holding a batch of tribbles

[23:18] <Lensman> Hmmm... that sounds vaguely familiar. I do remember looking *very* closely and seeing someone was missing a finger joint. I had forgotten it was Doohan, if that's who it was. I guess he hid it well.

[23:18] <Fred>and it looks like one of 'em has his finger in it'smouth

[23:18] <Harry_Redd> I got the story over Bloody Marys at a DAWN FANDOM party at EQUICON I.

[23:18] <Fred>once you start watching for it, you can see he's always got that hand behind something

[23:19] <SpaceCowboy> Or some other orifice, Fred. (Ewww...)

[23:19] <Fred>heh

[23:19] <FrGeek> THank you for saying it before I had to ;)

[23:19] <Harry_Redd> Or the fingers wrapped around something.

[23:19] <Fred>

[23:20] <Fred>June 7, 1944: A young Canadian officer fearlessly leads a company of men to storm Normandy beach under a hail of gunfire. After overrunning German positions, and personally dispatching two Nazi snipers, the man future generations would know as, "Scotty", the USS Enterprise's trusty Engineer, is ambushed. Before he can beam himself out of trouble, his body is riddled by machine gun bullets.

[23:20] <Fred>Luckily, for countless rabid Trekkies around the world, the faux-Scotsman was down, but not out. His only serious injury was to the middle finger to his right hand. Deciding it canna take it anymore, they amputated what was left of the digit, leaving Scotty one tube short a full bagpipe.

[23:20] <Fred>yes, you can find anything on google

[23:20] <Lensman> But is that the real story, or a press release?

[23:20] <Fred>even the 'missing finger' website

[23:21] <SpaceCowboy> I hear he used to fly slalom in a Hurricane or Spit through telephone poles when he was on patrol in Northern Cananadanada.

[23:21] <Harry_Redd> That's the story I got. He was with the Cannucs BTW.

[23:21] <Lensman> LOL! Now THAT's what I'd call an "obsessive fan"!

[23:21] <Fred>here's the story in his own words

[23:21] <Fred>

[23:22] <Fred>James Doohan: I was on the beach at D-Day. I was wounded that night. Three bullets hit one finger..... And I had four in the left knee. One hit a sterling silver cigarette case.... Four weeks later, they cut the finger off. It was useless --- and not pretty.... I hid it in the episodes.

[23:22] <Harry_Redd>

[23:23] <Lensman> We could start a website dedicated to the bits of Larry's kneecap removed by the doctor's drill...

[23:23] * Flying_away has joined #knownspace

[23:23] <Lensman> Picures might be hard to come by, tho...

[23:23] <Harry_Redd> Fred, that's pretty much the story I got. I can believe it. I saw the involved knee.

[23:23] <Harry_Redd> Hi Carol.

[23:23] <Flying_away> Whoa! Is the chat STILL going on?

[23:24] <Fred>we've been waiting for the hot chicks to show

[23:24] <Fred>wait - here's one now!!

[23:24] <Lensman> I don't think all those people listed are really here, but a few of us die-hards are.

[23:24] <SpaceCowboy> Hi, Carol. Welcome aboard. (OK guys, we have to clean up the act ...)

[23:24] <Lensman> Fred speaks for moi, also :)

[23:24] <Flying_away> I can't REALLY stay.

[23:24] <Fred>sniffle

[23:24] <SpaceCowboy> Awww ...

[23:25] <Flying_away> ARe you saying that I was kicked off because you guys been talking dirty?

[23:25] <Lensman> "Hello, I must be going..."

[23:25] <Fred>lol, I wish we were talking dirty

[23:25] <Fred>we're talking Kim Possible and Star Trek

[23:25] <Flying_away> Fred, Lensman, how SWEET!

[23:25] <Flying_away> LOL, LEnsman.

[23:25] <Lensman> LOL no you were kicked off when we only had 10 channels here and they were all full!

[23:25] <SpaceCowboy> I think it's been a matter of bumping up against a member-online-limitation. Larry couldn't get in earlier.

[23:25] <FrGeek> So ther is going to be another season of kim possible! WHoohoo. I get to see Shego again!

[23:25] <Flying_away> WEll, I've been away all day, and I had to check my mail.

[23:26] <Fred>You're in good company, Larry himself couldn't get on

[23:26] <Flying_away> WOw

[23:26] <Harry_Redd> OK guys, we have to clean up the act You don't know FD very well do you. ;-)

[23:26] <Fred>FrGeek, yes, they went back and made new Kim Possibles

[23:26] <Fred>I've read episode descriptions of a few

[23:26] <Lensman> Yes, I confess! *sob* I suggested Flying_away be kicked out to allow room for newcomers! It's all my fault!

[23:26] <Flying_away> I forgive you. I wasn't here anyway.

[23:27] <Harry_Redd> Not quite Fred. I'm the one who did the deed.

[23:27] <Flying_away> I've been away at the Martial arts tournament.

[23:27] <Flying_away> Tomorrow, I compete, but not before 1:30.

[23:27] <Harry_Redd> I also got Sean to reset the server numbers.

[23:27] <SpaceCowboy> Another aftershock! St Helens is in a feisty mood tonight!

[23:27] <Flying_away> Redd, I forgive you both, and all the others who supported the move.

[23:28] <Harry_Redd> Thank you FD.

[23:28] <Lensman> Pardon me for being geographically challenged... how close are you to Mt St. Helens? And no wonder Fred (?) was suggesting you look for a red glow in the sky!

[23:29] <Harry_Redd> It was me again Lensman. I suggested it.

[23:29] <SpaceCowboy> Um, I believe I'm about 110 miles or so to the ENE, maybe a bit farther.

[23:30] <Harry_Redd> Anyway, Sean reset the numbers high enough that I doubtr we'll have any problems.

[23:30] <Fred>Kim Possible, season 4, 22 episodes, none aired yet

[23:30] <Lensman> But how long will that setting stay? Surely it hasn't been set for a limit of 10 lo these many months??

[23:30] <Harry_Redd> You're outside of the ash patters under normal dispersion SC.

[23:30] <Flying_away> It is a good show, but it seems rather... repetiative.

[23:31] <Harry_Redd> He redid the servers and I guess he forgot to reset the default Lensman.

[23:31] <Lensman> Prevailing winds towards the east, I hope!

[23:31] <Harry_Redd> To the WEST Lensman.

[23:31] <Flying_away> I have to go put Clara down.

[23:31] <FrGeek> Well almost 70 miles away form pinatuboe we got a good show and 2 feet of ash

[23:31] <Lensman> Oops... that doesn't sound so good.

[23:32] <Harry_Redd> Give her a hug from us FD.

[23:32] <SpaceCowboy> Ellensburg got dusted pretty good in 1980, probably would again.

[23:32] <Flying_away> Yes, Redd.

[23:33] <SpaceCowboy> Bye, FA

[23:33] <Flying_away> I'll try to come back to say g'night to all you.

[23:33] <SpaceCowboy> OK

[23:33] <Fred>dammit

[23:33] <Lensman> LOL Reminds me of a time we were having a gaming session at a friend's house. He walks in carrying the toddler, who says "Put me down, daddy!" "Okay, you're short and your mother dressed you funny." Which of course went completely over the kid's head, but he got a laugh out of *me* anyway.

[23:33] <Fred>it says season 4 started october 6

[23:34] <Harry_Redd> Ash Radius wold be about 300 miles from Mt St H. So you'd get dusted by the fallout in varying degrees, depending on the winds at the time.

[23:34] <Fred>I have the dvr set to record EVERY EPISODE

[23:34] <Fred>GRRR

[23:34] <Harry_Redd>

[23:35] <Lensman> So what are you growling about? You should have an ep sitting on the recorder waiting for you, shouldn't you?

[23:35] <SpaceCowboy> 300 miles my aching ass, Harry ... Wichita got dusted pretty heavily in 1980. (More than Seattle got, thanks to the prevailing winds.)

[23:35] <Fred>nope, I checked this morning

[23:35] <Fred>had nothing but reruns

[23:35] <Harry_Redd> Kahn just Crottled his pet Greep!

[23:35] <Fred>harry!

[23:35] <Lensman> Wichita?? As in Kansas??!!

[23:35] <Fred>there's a lady present!

[23:35] <Harry_Redd> Primary Dispersion SC.

[23:36] <SpaceCowboy> That's what Roger said at the time, Lens.

[23:37] <Harry_Redd>

[23:37] <Lensman> Well I will be dipped in effluvium. I certainly don't remember seeing any dusting here in K.C... how could Wichita have been "dusted pretty heavily" and none here? Strange, very strange.

[23:37] <Harry_Redd> Wind Patterns Lensman.

[23:38] <Lensman> I guess.

[23:38] <Harry_Redd> BTW, the links I'm posting are to a Movie I'd LOVE to see made right. :-)

[23:39] <SpaceCowboy> Pinky and my grandmother both told me they needed to brush the stuff off their cars. (Grandma lived in Sterling, Pinky and my birth town...)

[23:39] <Harry_Redd>

[23:41] <Lensman> I get a very nice totally white page there.

[23:41] <SpaceCowboy> A movie I'd love to see done right is Rendezvous With Rama. Morgan Freeman holds the rights at the moment...

[23:42] <Lensman> Ohhh yeahhh... that book's images are so vivid it's just BEGGING for a movie to be made! I hope it gets done right, tho... which as we all know is quite rare for a great SF novel.

[23:43] <Fred>hey, do we have a new candidate to play teela brown, now that Katie Holmes has been ruined?

[23:43] <Harry_Redd> Try this then Lensman:

[23:43] <FrGeek> I still vote for jessica alba

[23:44] <Fred>be nice if we got an actress

[23:44] <Harry_Redd> I opt for an unknown who has the looks and can act. I suspect there are many like that out there.

[23:45] <Fred>how about the voice of nessus?

[23:45] <Lensman> But there *was* a movie entitled "Space Truckers" or somesuch. I don't remember much... it was a comedy, and a pretty forgettable one.

[23:45] <Fred>who's the hottest female voice in the world?

[23:46] <Lensman> Nessus has to be Kathleen Turner, of course... "I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way." If "contralto" means what I think it does, she qualifies.

[23:46] <Harry_Redd> This looks kinda like Starwars crossed with FIREFLY. Not a bad idea.

[23:46] <Lensman> Jessica Alba-- she was Sue in "The Fantastic Four" is that right?

[23:47] <Harry_Redd> I agree Lens and she is a contralto.

[23:47] <Fred>yes, lens

[23:47] <Fred>turner's been playing men for awhile now . . .

[23:47] <Lensman> Hey, batting 1000! :)

[23:47] <SpaceCowboy> Are you thinking of "Battle Beyond The Stars", Lens? George Peppard as the space trucker?

[23:48] <Lensman> No!

[23:48] <Fred>no, there was a movie called SPACE TRUCKERS

[23:48] <SpaceCowboy> Hottest female, Fred: Jessica Rabbit.

[23:48] <Harry_Redd> I thinnk she's LOVE to do Nessus. I Opt SC for doing the "Mad SYNTHASIZER" for the screem though. ;-)

[23:48] <Fred>contralto:

[23:48] <Fred>the lowest female voice; the term itself comes from two Italian words which signify against ("contra") the high ("alto") voice. In baroque operas, the contralto generally represented a certain character type on stage: either comic (a sort of female basso buffo), or spooky and other worldly, or just plain matronly. Marian Anderson and Maureen Forrester have been legendary contraltos in the concert and operatic world.

[23:49] <Lensman>

[23:49] <FrGeek> Heard a radio commercial a while ago with a very sultry vioce tha ended with "You have to see these deals to belive them, because seeing them makes a big differnce. For example, I not a hot sultry blonde, I'm actually a fat sweaty middle aged man with a hormone imbalnce.)

[23:50] <SpaceCowboy> ROTFL!

[23:50] <Harry_Redd>

[23:50] <Harry_Redd> LMSO!

[23:50] <Lensman> Lauren Bacall also qualifies as contralto. But I still like the idea of Jessica Rabbit being Nessus <g>

[23:50] <Lensman> ROTFL indeed! That's great!

[23:50] <Harry_Redd> Me too. And I think she's really LIKE the role. It's a Very MAJOR part.

[23:51] <FrGeek> I was just about to say Jessica rabbbit. Katleen turner woudl be prefect.

[23:51] <SpaceCowboy> JR certainly had "major parts" ...

[23:52] <Lensman> Er sorry not Lauren Bacall, who's probably passed away, I mean Anne Bancroft.

[23:52] <SpaceCowboy> Lo-ove those Borg Implants...

[23:52] <Harry_Redd> "Nice Boioby Trap!"

[23:52] <Fred>um

[23:52] <Fred>lauren Bacall is alive and well and working

[23:52] <Fred>anne bancroft is not

[23:52] <SpaceCowboy> And I think Anne Bancroft died this year ...

[23:53] <Lensman> Really! There's a surprise.

[23:53] <Harry_Redd> Hmmm. She might take the role because it would be an interesting one. SOmething she's never done.

[23:53] <Harry_Redd> Bacall Would work quite well.

[23:53] <SpaceCowboy> And interestingly, Kathleen T was playing "Mrs. Robinson" the last I heard. (Live stage.)

[23:53] <Fred>bancroft died last year

[23:54] <SpaceCowboy> Ah, time flies like an arrow.

[23:54] <Harry_Redd>

[23:54] <SpaceCowboy> Fruit flies like a banana.

[23:54] <Fred>turner's most recent credit is Nip/Tuck

[23:54] <Lensman> Lauren Bacall (sp?) was really, really hot in "The Big Sleep" When she and Bogie are talking about horse racing... well they're NOT talking about horse racing!

[23:55] <Harry_Redd> Truly!

[23:55] <Fred>so, contralto . . . Kirstie Alley would qualify?

[23:55] <Lensman> That has to be the steamiest scene I've ever seen where the actors are fully clothed and not groping each other.

[23:56] <Lensman> Yah I think Kirstie would qualify as contralto. Maybe not *quite* as low as Turner, but close.

[23:56] <SpaceCowboy> I dunno, Lens ... RedEye Knight gets glazed over when he watches that lady pull the bullets out of Steve Martin in "Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid" ...

[23:56] <Harry_Redd> In the OUTLAW there a scene about riding a horse that is CLASSIC.

[23:56] <Fred>How about Tina Turner? And she could sing the stirring "Love Theme from Ringworld" as well

[23:57] <Harry_Redd> Fred, Wash your mind out!

[23:57] <Lensman> I hate Martin's early films, including that one. Doubt I've ever seen the scene you're discribing.

[23:57] <SpaceCowboy> "We're just looking for a speaker-to-animals ..."

[23:57] <Fred>okay, wrap your brain around this

[23:57] <Lensman> Fred: Please tell me you're joking. A jive-talking Nessus? NOT!

[23:57] <Fred>goldeneye, but sing "lou ee wu" instead

[23:57] <FrGeek> a bald Mel gibson as louis wu?

[23:58] <Harry_Redd> Tuburo Sakkai Perhaps? He's got a DEEP growling voice.

[23:58] <Lensman> As I've said before, Vin Desiel has to be Speaker. Watch The Iron Giant if you don't believe me.

[23:58] <Fred>Michael Dorn as Speaker

[23:58] <Fred>Vin would be good too

[23:58] <Harry_Redd> I'll acccept VIN.

[23:58] <Lensman> Dorn would be good too, yah.

[23:59] <Harry_Redd> That would be good too. Hmmm How about NEMOY?

[23:59] <Fred>Dorn if I have Alley for my 'all trek cast'

[23:59] <SpaceCowboy> Vin Diesel was AMAZING in Iron Giant ... if heavily filtered. Good call, Lens.

[23:59] <Lensman> Remember Louis doesn't LOOK old.

[23:59] <Fred>yeah, louis has the physique of a 25 year old

[23:59] <Fred>he's not asian either

Session Time: Sun Oct 08 00:00:00 2006

[00:00] <Lensman> I dunno, frankly I'm not good at "casting" live-action actors.

[00:00] <Fred>can I have inara from firefly as prill?

[00:00] <Lensman> He's mixed race, he could look a bit asian.

[00:00] <Harry_Redd> He looks like a Mix. Now, can we find a Asian, Black mexican? Maybe Tiger Woods?

[00:00] <SpaceCowboy> I could almost see Jessica Alba as Teela Brown.

[00:00] <Fred>I want my Teela Brown nordic pink, dammit!

[00:01] <Fred>I'd rather have alba as prill

[00:01] <SpaceCowboy> Didn't she have dark hair? (It's been a while...)

[00:01] <Harry_Redd> Yes. BUt would alba submit to the shaving of her hair?

[00:01] <Fred>yes, she has raven black hair and nordic pink skin

[00:01] <Fred>think Terry Farrel

[00:01] <Lensman> Jessica has the right coloration for mixed race. But was Teela described that way? For some reason I think of her as a blue-eyed blond. Maybe that's just my gonads talking, tho.

[00:01] <FrGeek> Terry woudl be good

[00:02] <Fred>she's also about 6 feet tall

[00:02] <Fred>think terry farrell

[00:02] <FrGeek> Terry would be good

[00:02] <Lensman> I don't know who that is, sorry.

[00:02] <Fred>STAR TREK

[00:02] <Fred>deep space 9

[00:02] <SpaceCowboy> Terry would be excellent. She can act, too, so klutz isn't out of the question...

[00:02] <Lensman> Dax?

[00:02] <Fred>si

[00:02] <SpaceCowboy> Yes, Lens

[00:02] <Fred>Dax number 1

[00:03] <SpaceCowboy> Jadzia, not Ezri.

[00:03] <Fred>

[00:03] <Lensman> Hmmm I dunno, Dax #2 seems much more like the "innocent" Teela to me, altho she's not tall enuff. Dax was *much* too self-assured, and Teela was only 20.

[00:04] <Fred>well, Ringworld's Children retcons Teela to be a LOT older

[00:04] <FrGeek> Oh Ashley Judd

[00:04] <Fred>ahhhhh

[00:04] <Fred>ashley judd

[00:04] <SpaceCowboy> Like I said, though, Terry can act. I wasn't too impressed with Ezri.

[00:04] <Lensman> Maybe she's a good enuff actress to play innocent, but playing much younger... isn't easy.

[00:04] <Fred>alas, too old

[00:04] <Lensman> You're right, whoever played Ezri was a lightweight in the acting category.

[00:05] <Fred>I'd like to pluck terry out of time and space, but unfortunately a 20 year old terry didn't have the acting chops

[00:05] <Harry_Redd> *LOL*

[00:05] <Fred>okay, so, I'd just like to pluck terry

[00:05] <Flying_away> Here again....

[00:05] <Harry_Redd> WB FD.

[00:05] <SpaceCowboy> What matters age? They'd probably still cast Jackie Chan or Will Smith as Louis Wu. (Or Ben Stiller, or some equally unlikely favorite-of-the-week...)

[00:06] <Fred>okay

[00:06] <Fred>I hate myself for saying this

[00:06] <FrGeek> Hollywood woudl probably cast howie mandel, he's bald now right?

[00:06] <Fred>and you'll all hate me too

[00:06] <SpaceCowboy> SAY IT

[00:06] <Fred>but

[00:06] <Fred>louis wu

[00:06] <Fred>Freddie Prinze Junior

[00:07] <Lensman> That's why I'm dubious about a Ringworld movie. The chances are almost zilch that I'd be satisfied with whatever they came up with. I'd be like one of those die-hard Tolkien fans who complained about the first LOTR movie.

[00:07] <SpaceCowboy> Fred, go open a window ... you're not getting enough oxygen.

[00:07] <Flying_away> Fred, Louis Wu is not asian.

[00:07] <Fred>lol, neither is freddie prinze

[00:07] <Harry_Redd> A slight asian cast to the fetures.

[00:08] <Fred>

[00:08] <FrGeek> How about Adam baldwin - jayne from serenity?

[00:08] <Fred>ooo, the all serenity cast

[00:08] <Fred>that gives me inara as prill

[00:08] <Fred>gina torres as Nessus

[00:09] <Fred>oh oh

[00:09] <Fred>river

[00:09] <Fred>as teela

[00:09] <FrGeek> ooohhhh

[00:09] <Fred>what's her name? river tam . . .

[00:09] <Fred>who the hell plays her

[00:09] <Lensman> She could certainly do the part, altho physically she isn't a match. She *is* young enuff.

[00:09] <SpaceCowboy> Wish I'd ever seen an episode of the show ...

[00:09] <Fred>all she's missing is the height

[00:10] <SpaceCowboy> They'll fix her in post, Fred. ;)

[00:10] <Fred>summer blau

[00:10] <Fred>all we need to do is cast a shorter Louis

[00:10] <Lensman> SC You should definitely see "Serenity". It's a *very* good movie, and stands on its own well. I know that's true 'cuz I never got into the show.

[00:10] <Fred>which helps with speaker, too

[00:10] <Fred>speaker would only need to be 7' tall :)

[00:11] <SpaceCowboy> I get that impression, Lens.

[00:11] <Fred>

[00:11] <Fred>and here's my prill

[00:11] <Lensman> Serenity won the Hugo didn't it? I think so.

[00:11] <Fred>

[00:11] <FrGeek> i can see he doing a clumsy with grace

[00:12] <Harry_Redd> I only saw 3 episodes on broadcast. S*I*G*H

[00:13] <Fred>okay

[00:13] <Fred>firefly cast

[00:13] <Fred>

[00:13] <Fred>only louis wu in there is the guy that played her brother

[00:14] <Fred>baldwin could do speaker

[00:15] <FrGeek> Speaker woudl have to be CG to be doen well. and good cg at that, no jar-jar binks

[00:15] <Fred>maybe

[00:15] <Fred>I'd like to see a suit in the shipboard shots

[00:15] <Fred>cgi in long shots and action

[00:16] <Fred>certainly a suit sitting on the flycycle, which is half the damn movie

[00:16] <SpaceCowboy> PLEASE! NO MORE ANTHONY SERKIS (sp?) MOCAPS!

[00:16] <Fred>lol, no mocrap

[00:17] <Lensman> I think Jar-Jar was very GOOD CGI. He was just a very annoying character.

[00:17] <Fred>if I mocrap speaker, I'm gonna do it with somebody THE RIGHT FREAKING SIZE

[00:17] <Fred>like Shaq

[00:17] <Fred>that was the problem with THE HULK; you could instantly tell they had a 5' tall guy doing the mocrap

[00:17] <Lensman> What's wrong with Anthony Serkis? Great heavens, they were talking about an Oscar nomination!

[00:18] <Fred>well, that was one problem. one of many many many many MANY problems with the hulk.

[00:18] <SpaceCowboy> Good call. Shaq in a suit with Dorn's voice...

[00:18] <Lensman> Of course he's totally wrong for the voice, but for motion capture...

[00:18] <Fred>yes. If I'm mocrapping Speaker, I'm doing it with a 7 foot plus athelete

[00:19] <Flying_away> OKay, I'm not following the conversation, so I better just get myself off to bed.

[00:19] <Fred>:(

[00:19] <SpaceCowboy> Serkis blew Kong for me. Acrobatic, yes ... but I never believed the scale for a second.

[00:19] <Lensman> I just never bought The Hulk as a real person. Not for one single second, not even when standing still. It wasn't the mocap, it was just bad CGI period. Lets be honest here, they never *did* get human skin to look right until Gollum in The Two Towers.

[00:19] <SpaceCowboy> Bye bye, Carol...

[00:19] <Fred>yeah, kong was clearly a 6' ape surrounded by tiny people

[00:19] <Flying_away> g'night. Wish me good luck for tomorrow.

[00:19] <Harry_Redd> Sleep well Carol.

[00:20] <Harry_Redd> GOOD LUCK!

[00:20] <Flying_away> ty, you too. I hope Peg is better.

[00:20] <FrGeek> I msut be off. Great chat. Was worth it just to find out Kim Possible is back on the air

[00:20] <Lensman> Goodnight Carol!

[00:20] <Flying_away> Ty, redd.

[00:20] <Flying_away> G'night Lensman.

[00:20] <Fred>night carol, night geek

[00:20] <Harry_Redd> Sleep well FrGeek.

[00:20] <Flying_away> Night Fred, night, fr geek.

[00:20] <FrGeek> I'll be praying for you both frank.

[00:20] <Harry_Redd> Adios Lensman.

[00:20] * FrGeek has quit IRC

[00:20] <SpaceCowboy> Good night, those departing. Great chat!

[00:21] <Lensman> That's because they didn't slow down the motion enuff to convince us Kong was actually a huge critter.

[00:21] <Flying_away> Night, cowboy.

[00:21] <Fred>yep

[00:21] <SpaceCowboy> Ma'am.

[00:22] <Harry_Redd> Thank you Carol.

[00:22] <SpaceCowboy> Like I told RedEye Knight ... Jackson's Kong was beautiful and a waste of time.

[00:22] <Lensman> Well gang, I've been in this chat room for 13 hours now, and I think I'm gonna call it quits. It has been a great series of chats today, on a wide variety of subjects, and I enjoyed it thoroughly.

[00:22] <Fred>same here lens

[00:22] <Lensman> So, good night all!

[00:23] * Lensman has quit IRC

[00:23] <SpaceCowboy> Me too, Lens. See you in the DP chat tomorrow maybe?

[00:23] <Harry_Redd> Adios Lensman.

[00:23] <Fred>2 L8

[00:23] <SpaceCowboy> Quick he is!

[00:24] <SpaceCowboy> ("Me too" meant "enjoyed" ... not quitting yet.

[00:24] <Fred>what's a DP chat?

[00:25] <SpaceCowboy> It's a gathering of the blog newsletter of The Chronicles of the Dawn Patrol ... aerospace, skiffy...

[00:25] <Fred>ah

[00:26] <Harry_Redd> WARBIRDS!

[00:27] <SpaceCowboy> The founder, Roger "Pinky" Tener, is the TM at the 2007 NASFiC.

[00:28] <SpaceCowboy> Pinky gets away with his nickname because he's about 6'7" at close to 300# ... who's going to make fun of him?

[00:30] <SpaceCowboy> afk for 'arf-a-mo --

[00:35] <Harry_Redd> -k-

[00:36] <SpaceCowboy> I've had occasional daydreams about a Supercar theatrical live-action ... although we see the original Supercar, the main unit is a newer one ... big, sleek, black. George Clooney as Mike Mercury, Jimmy is a female, the damn chimp is something more like a wooley monkey ... it'd be fun for the thing to be forced to "hide in the crowd" at "Burning Man" (also Black Rock...)

[00:37] <Fred>you should probably try the Black Rock chat sometime

[00:37] <Fred>every friday night

[00:37] <SpaceCowboy> Supercar related?

[00:38] <Fred>yeah, black rock one is the supercar group

[00:38] <SpaceCowboy> That sounds like fun. When and where?

[00:38] <Fred>hang on . . .

[00:38] <SpaceCowboy> Hanging...

[00:39] <SpaceCowboy> *ack* *gak* *koff koff*

[00:39] <Harry_Redd> Hanging.

[00:39] <Fred>

[00:39] <Fred>every friday 5pm pacific

[00:39] <Fred>doesn't usually start 'til 6 though

[00:40] <Fred>

[00:40] <Fred>I don't suppose you're into Tom Swift?

[00:41] <SpaceCowboy> I was once upon a time. And Danny Dunn, and Spaceship Under The Apple Tree and Journey to the Mushroom Planet ...

[00:41] <Fred>lol

[00:41] <Harry_Redd> I haven't read any T.S. for over 40 years.

[00:42] <Fred>wow

[00:42] <Fred>you've missed 3 series

[00:42] <Fred>maybe 4

[00:42] <SpaceCowboy> New?

[00:42] <Fred>Tom Swift series 5 started this year

[00:42] <Fred>

[00:43] <SpaceCowboy> Wow. See what happens when you marry a wannabe artist, and mostly mundane at that?

[00:43] <SpaceCowboy> "Aaahh! The walls arre closing in! Can't -- breathe --"

[00:44] <SpaceCowboy> Does anybody remember "Jet Jackson"?

[00:44] <Fred>yeah

[00:44] <Fred>

[00:45] <Harry_Redd> Kinda.

[00:45] <SpaceCowboy> or "Steve Canyon" ... I want to say Jeff Chandler played Caniff's old bold pilot...

[00:45] <Harry_Redd> STEVE CANYON! I Loved that and TERRY AND THE PIRATES!

[00:45] <Harry_Redd> SKY KING!

[00:45] <SpaceCowboy> Did TATP ever show up as a TV series?

[00:45] <Harry_Redd> Casptain Midnight!

[00:46] <Fred>and his plucky neice penny

[00:46] <Harry_Redd> Yes, but it was short lived. About the time Duruay die CHINA SMITH.

[00:46] <SpaceCowboy> "Rip her blouse off, Sky! She's not really your niece, she's just an actress!"

[00:46] <Fred>terry and the pirates was a series in '52

[00:46] <Harry_Redd> You sure you spelled that right Fred?

[00:46] <Fred>and a movie or serial in '40

[00:48] <Fred>hey, you can get terry on dvd

[00:48] <Fred>cheap

[00:48] <Fred>

[00:48] <SpaceCowboy> I had a Secret Squadron card, a Steve Canyon crash helmet, and a Supercar Pilot's License at various times in my past. (sigh)

[00:48] <Fred>cool

[00:49] <Fred>I still have my Remco SUPERCAR

[00:49] <SpaceCowboy> I just found out that Space Angel is available, too.

[00:49] <Harry_Redd> I had the Squadron Card and the Ring. I seem to remember a BLACKHAWKS series too, but very short lived.

[00:49] <Fred>I watched JET JACKSON FLYING COMMANDO too

[00:49] <SpaceCowboy> I used to have the Supercar and the Fireball XL5 set. All fell victim to the military moves...

[00:50] <Fred>which turns out to be a renamed Captain Midnight

[00:51] <SpaceCowboy> Yeah, I don't remember it as Captain Midnight. But when I bought a model kid of the D558 Phase 3, I painted it black. My dad thought I was nuts...

[00:51] <Harry_Redd>

[00:51] <Fred>Kirk Alyn was BLACKHAWK

[00:52] <Harry_Redd> One thing I LOVED in Terry was that old DC-3. It was actually an RD-4 (Navy version) but I still loved seeing it.

[00:52] <SpaceCowboy> Seeing Kirk Alyn in the original Chris Reeves "Superman" was a hoot ... and Noel Neill to boot!

[00:53] <Fred>yep

[00:53] <Fred>although I've always preferred Phyllis Coates

[00:53] <Harry_Redd> Yeah. I wish I'd gotten to know Kirk better.

[00:53] <Fred>you knew Kirk?

[00:53] <Fred>excellent

[00:53] <SpaceCowboy> Verily

[00:53] <Fred>Larry had a great anecdote about him IIRC

[00:54] <Fred>You know they're releasing the Richard Donner cut of Superman 2 this Xmas?

[00:54] <Harry_Redd> Kinda. We talked at a few Fan parties. He was that I knwe some of the STEWVE ALLEN "BOP TALES". ;-)

[00:54] <Fred>and both the Kirk Alyn serials

[00:54] <Harry_Redd> Sorry, Refilling my coffee levels here.

[00:55] <SpaceCowboy> Steve Allen wrote several interesting skiffy stories, as I recall. One was called "The Public Hating", if memory serves.

[00:55] <Harry_Redd> Truly.

[00:55] <Fred>and he was of course mistaken for SUPERMAN

[00:56] <Harry_Redd> Kirk was... Yes.

[00:56] <Fred>no, steve allen

[00:56] <Fred>there's a whole comic based on steve allen being a dead ringer for george reeves, so of course he must look just like clark kent

[00:56] <Fred>and he wears those glasses . ..

[00:57] <SpaceCowboy> I loved Proctor & Bergman's mistreatment of a bunch of old Republic serials in "J-Men Forever"...

[00:57] <Harry_Redd> Steve dis a few skits with Louie Nye on the tonight show based on that.

[00:58] <SpaceCowboy> I have a hard time visualizing Superman going "Smock-smock, how's your fern?" ;)

[00:58] <Harry_Redd> In one of them Steve went into the phone booth as Clark and louie came out as Superman. ;-)

[00:59] <Fred>lol

[00:59] <Fred>Murder in Manhattan. Hard Cover. Autographed by both Steve Allen and Jayne Meadows. Veteran show business personality Steve Allen is back in another wickedly entertaining mystery! After his previous adventures, Steve has sworn off solving mysteries--blood, violence, and especially those exhausting chases are just not his cup of tea. What does intrigue him, however, is the offer to play a cameo role in a movie being shot in Manhattan, a part that involves d

[00:59] <SpaceCowboy> I still think one of the best Superman characterizations was done by Bob Newhart.

[01:00] <Harry_Redd> I have THE GLITTER BOX. He got sued over that one.

[01:01] <Harry_Redd> What means "IIRC"?

[01:01] <Fred>If

[01:01] <Fred>I

[01:02] <SpaceCowboy> Fred? Involves d-iapers? d-elinquency? d-umbo the flying elephant?

[01:02] <Fred>Recall

[01:02] <Fred>Correctly

[01:02] <Harry_Redd> Newhart did some very good stuff.

[01:02] <Fred>newhart is great

[01:02] <Harry_Redd> Thanks Fred.

[01:02] <SpaceCowboy> THANK YOU!

[01:02] <Fred>sure harry

[01:02] <Fred>newhart was great on the emmys this year

[01:03] <Fred>locked in an airtight box

[01:04] <SpaceCowboy> (Newhart: "How'd you like me to come down there and knock that silly cigar out of your mouth? -- Never mind how I know --"

[01:04] <Harry_Redd> Sounds GREAT Fred. But then, Trust Newhart to do something like that.

[01:04] <Fred>yeah, they told the winners to keep their speechs short

[01:04] <Fred>because he only had 3 hours of air

[01:04] <Fred>if the show ran long . . .

[01:04] <SpaceCowboy> LOL

[01:05] <Fred>he was so perfect; how could anybody take a chance on hurting bob newhart?

[01:06] <SpaceCowboy> I watched his delicious TV wife, Suzanne Pleshette, the other night in a favorite flyin' film, "Fate is the Hunter."

[01:06] <Fred>nancy kwan

[01:06] <SpaceCowboy> She was in it, too.

[01:06] <Fred>yep

[01:07] <Fred>Pleshette is also in THE WILD WILD WEST pilot

[01:07] <Fred>hey

[01:07] <Fred>she's a contralto

[01:08] <SpaceCowboy> I love the Rod Taylor bit: "The runway's at the end of this fjord." "How do you know?" "It has to be. We're out of gas. Feather four ..."

[01:09] <SpaceCowboy> That's right ... a lovely voice. In a still elegant package...

[01:09] <Harry_Redd> Truly!

[01:10] <Fred>I wonder what Diana Rigg sounds like these days

[01:10] <SpaceCowboy> I haven't seen her for some time ... wasn't she hosting "Mystery" for PBS for a while?

[01:11] <Fred>yeah

[01:11] <Harry_Redd> Yupper.

[01:11] <SpaceCowboy> There are a few classic beauties that just get better. Diana Rigg is one. Sophia Loren another.

[01:12] <Harry_Redd> TRUELY!

[01:12] <Fred>wow, rigg is almost 70

[01:12] <SpaceCowboy> Going on 40...

[01:12] <Fred>plays grandmothers now

[01:13] <Fred>hey, she had a daughter, late in life

[01:13] <Fred>under 30 now

[01:14] <Fred>,%20Rachael

[01:14] <SpaceCowboy> Did she inherit Mom's good looks?

[01:16] <SpaceCowboy> Wow ... I guess that's a 10-yes.

[01:16] <Fred>

[01:16] <Fred>how did I not know this person existed?

[01:17] <SpaceCowboy> (sigh) ... so many beautiful women, so little time.

[01:18] <Fred>

[01:18] <SpaceCowboy> She sure has mom's cheekbones.

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[01:20] <SpaceCowboy> Cheese, I'm getting weary too. It sure has been fun, gents!

[01:20] <Harry_Redd> TEELA? That is IF she has her mom's talent.

[01:20] <Fred>she's got the height

[01:20] <Fred>night spacey

[01:20] <Harry_Redd> Agreed. I'm going to get off line to ead a Late dinner. Almost 11 P here.

[01:21] <Fred>take care frank

[01:21] <Harry_Redd> Not gone yet Fren

[01:21] <SpaceCowboy> Good night, all. Chat with ya tomorrow, Frank?

[01:21] <Harry_Redd> FRED!

[01:21] <Fred>:)

[01:21] <Harry_Redd> Adios Bill. Have a good one.

[01:21] <SpaceCowboy> BCNU

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[01:21] <Fred>if larry shows up NOW I'll be really mad!

[01:22] <Fred>night all you lurkers

[01:22] <Harry_Redd> Too late for larry.

[01:22] <Fred>nite

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[01:24] <Harry_Redd> I must go too. Adios all.

[01:39] <senax> Heh...I finally get back and almost everyone's gone.

[01:39] <senax> Night Frank

[01:39] <Harry_Redd> Hi and Bye.

[01:40] <Harry_Redd> -GONE+++

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[01:41] <senax> Oh well. Don't forget to turn the lights out, CrazyEddy.

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