Chat Log: 7th April 2001

Session Start: Sun Apr 08 05:58:56 2001

[5:58] <Red_AFK> Hi Krenon

<Krenon> Hi

[6:00] *** Krenon changes topic to 'The life, loves and writings of Laurence van Cott Niven'

<Krenon> Strange - I didn't think I could do that unless I was opped.

[6:00] <vxpmrz3> hello.

[6:01] <vxpmrz3> Maybe K9 isn't doing it's job.

[6:01] <vxpmrz3> And Alien pinged out earlier.

<Krenon> Oh!

<Krenon> I thought you were Frank 

[6:03] <vxpmrz3> Just so long as you don't think anyone is a frankenfurter.

<Krenon> K9 might be a hot dog

[6:03] *** Vash ( has joined #KNOWNSPACE

[6:03] <Red_AFK> Hi Vash

[6:03] <Vash> Hello and welcome, Vash!

<Krenon> Hi

[6:04] <vxpmrz3> I think some people's scripts need fixing.

[6:04] <Vash> Hi, that topic sounds like the life and times of Robert A Heinlein.

<Krenon> Methinks that Red_AFK is not actually at her computer right now

[6:04] <Vash> Yes, Vxpmrz3, I welcomed myself!

<Krenon> The topic was my invention

[6:05] <vxpmrz3> Was for a while, but then popped out.

[6:05] <vxpmrz3> Or so it seemed to me.

[6:06] <Vash> k9 op

[6:06] *** K9 sets mode: +o Vash

[6:06] <Vash> what popped out?

[6:06] <vxpmrz3> Not what, who.

<Krenon> Red_AFK - an alias of Redflame of course

[6:07] <Vash> who popped out? 

<Krenon> v.i.

[6:07] <vxpmrz3> Red_AFK, aka Redflame.

[6:07] <Vash> oh, Carol left, i thought someone had popped out of their top!

[6:07] <vxpmrz3> Somebody has a dirty mind. :)

<Krenon> Probably seeing to Clara

[6:08] *** K9 changes topic to 'New FAQ Questions'

<Krenon> I've done a bit of work on the KS mirror page.

[6:08] <Vash> have you added all the files that you were cross-linking before?

<Krenon> Oh, I know a good question for the FAQ. What's Nesssus's real name?

[6:09] <Vash> I'm being deafened at the moment by the hamster running in its wheel,

<Krenon> No but I can at short notice

<Krenon> How's BTI?

[6:09] <Vash> its not just the hamster but about a ton of seed that its dumped in there that's rolling around with it!

[6:10] <Vash> nothing's changed

[6:10] <vxpmrz3> krenon: the answer is, non-displayable in available fonts

[6:10] <Vash> the old number, which should have stopped working a week ago is still working, 

<Krenon> OK. I do at present have room for all the big files on my web space, but I won't actually upload them until and unless it becomes necessary.

[6:10] <Vash> I've had an acknowledgement of my complaint, but nothing further

[6:11] <Vash> still haven't heard anything from Larry about a domain

<Krenon> No

<Krenon> He seems to be rather uncommunicative at present

[6:11] <Vash> hasn't posted to the list in weeks

<Krenon> "FAQ Questions" is a tautology

[6:12] <vxpmrz3> Doubtless working hard on some new book.

<Krenon> Several, as far as we know

[6:12] <Vash> I was surprised to see how many postings hit the list yesterday, over 100!

<Krenon> Yes, it's been busy. My local sf list has been busy too.

[6:13] <vxpmrz3> Things often cycle like that. 

[6:13] <Vash> as well as seed, the hamster is running with a 2/3 slice of carrot too!

[6:13] *** HARRY has joined #KNOWNSPACE

[6:13] <Vash> Hello and welcome, HARRY!

[6:13] <Red_AFK> Hi HARRY

[6:13] <vxpmrz3> At least it has some company.

[6:14] <HARRY> Hi all. 

<Krenon> Have you got a name for it yet?

<Krenon> Hi 

<Krenon> Red says hi but she's really not at her computer

[6:14] <Vash> Sean is still calling it "Henryetta". To me its just "Hamster".

[6:14] <HARRY> Thanks. Please tell her HI for me.

<Krenon> She's presumably coming back soon

[6:15] <Vash> Jade doesn't know what to make of it, I put it on his back yesterday and he was making "hmmh" noises.

[6:15] <vxpmrz3> Harry: Can't, it's just a script answering, we'll have to wait till she returns.

<Krenon> When the recalcitrant child is pacified, probably

[6:16] <HARRY> Thanks vxp. I'll be hear for a while, but will have to leave sooner than usual. I have shopping to do and I have to go see my S/O. She's in the hospital.

[6:16] <vxpmrz3> Naw, she's been gone for at least an hour.

[6:16] <Vash> I wonder where alien's gone, it was here earlier

[6:17] <vxpmrz3> No telling, when, or if she's get back.

[6:17] <HARRY> Ah well.

<Krenon> Strange.

<Krenon> Maybe she intends to read the chat log later.

[6:17] <HARRY> What's this about FAQ's?

[6:18] <Vash> Well let's get started, FAQ question no 4, "How did Niven and Barnes get together"?

<Krenon> I've never heard an explanation

[6:18] <vxpmrz3> What book was that?

[6:19] <vxpmrz3> I know it happened, I just can't recall which one it was.

<Krenon> Steve is about 12 years younger than Larry. I think his role was firstly that of student

[6:20] <HARRY> Ok, I was there close to the start if anyone's interested.

<Krenon> But Steve was always good. I don't know what he learned from Larry

[6:20] <vxpmrz3> Harry: Well, then you answer the question.

[6:20] <Vash> I'm sure that there must be an explanation of how they met somewhere in Niven's anecdotal writings, its just knowing which one

<Krenon> I was impressed with Dream Park, as I was with the Mote.

<Krenon> I think I'd recall it if I'd ever seen it. They probably met at a con

[6:21] <HARRY> Steve barns walked into a LASFS meeting one evening looking at people VERY Carefully... The Club resident greeter asked Steve "Are you looking for someone?" Steve said "Larry Niven". 

<Krenon> Ah. Of course, he lived in LA then

[6:22] <vxpmrz3> BTW, I do have a problem with the Knownspace site. I don't like Splash screens. I think they detract from websites.

<Krenon> What's a splash screen?

[6:22] <Vash> Splash screens? The java water effect?

<Krenon> Lake applet?

[6:22] <vxpmrz3> Krenon: What's on the knownspace website right now is one.

[6:23] <Vash> the popup window?

<Krenon> The entry page?

[6:23] <vxpmrz3> Now I don't favor the Java images, but that's tolerable, the splash, or entry page though, is just not a good idea.

[6:23] <HARRY> About that time, Larry came in and Steve said, Is that Larry? I said Yes. And Steve walked over and said something on the order of " I'm Steven Barns, We've corresponded." Larry's face lit up and I couldn't hear what was said, but they obviously were getting along quite well.

<Krenon> If it's the popup window, it's only on the BTI site

[6:23] <Vash> and not for long, hopefully

<Krenon> OK, V, what's a splash screen?

[6:24] <vxpmrz3> Krenon: No, not the popup, that's not it at all. You might want to look at Cnet's article with 5 people about effective websites. It mostly applies to commercial ones, but the point remains.

[6:24] <vxpmrz3> krenon: The page that's currently on the site right now, with the "Enter" button.

[6:24] <Vash> Many sites have an Entry page.

<Krenon> OK. You mean the lake applet I presume

[6:25] <vxpmrz3> Vash: Many sites have poor and broken HTML.

[6:25] <vxpmrz3> krenon: NO, NO, NO!

[6:25] <Vash> A lot of commercial sites have loads of flash on their entry page which takes ages to load

<Krenon> Just having an entry screen?

[6:25] <vxpmrz3> krenon: I mean the page itself. If you remove that image, it'd still be a splash screen.

[6:25] <HARRY> I found out later that Steve (His own words) had set out in Highschool to write a book with Larry. He'd read EVERYTHING Larry wrote and apparently wrote letters interesting enough to get written replies from Larry.

<Krenon> You think the main page should come straight up?

[6:25] <vxpmrz3> Krenon: Yes, I think that's best.

<Krenon> Can you put a date on that meeting?

[6:26] <vxpmrz3> Anyway, I've got to pop out to look at some plumbing, so I'll be gone for a bit.

[6:26] <HARRY> While in his final year of college, he seriously started sending Larry plots and writing samples... Most had a Martial Arts theme.

<Krenon> Well I must admit that I rather like the entry page myself.

[6:27] * Vash hopes that Vxpmrz3 will give the pipe and extra twist to make sure it doesn't leak!

[6:28] <Vash> Well, Carol said that Larry got confused with the original layout of the various screen resolutions..... so I changed it so that the site only had one big friendly "Enter" button

[6:28] <HARRY> At any rate, Larry liked his style enough to get started on one with an African theme I forget the title but I believe it was published in ANALOG.

[6:29] <HARRY> *DONE*

<Krenon> I'd like to know what that was.

[6:30] <Vash> thank you Harry, that should be sufficient information to include in the FAQ.

[6:31] <HARRY> BTW, Steve joined LASFS that first evening. Later ( At a Shuttle landing at Edwards) he told me that it was the first White majority event he'd attended where his color was not commented on. He liked that. /;-)

[6:31] <Vash> Unanswered FAQ question no#8 "Why did Niven do several three-author collaborations"?

[6:32] <HARRY> Krenon, you can do a author search at the ANALOG site.

<Krenon> That's true. However I'll ask first.

<Krenon> There was a legal reason for bringing Flynn into "Fallen Angels"

[6:33] <HARRY> Larry likes to experiment. There have been very few 3 MAN collaborations that actually work well. It speaks well of the people Larry hooked up with and VERY well on Larry to be successful with them.

[6:33] <Vash> what was that?

<Krenon> Something to do with a contract about Niven-Pournelle collaborations. It didn't preclude collaborations with a third person. That may also explain the Heorot novels

[6:33] <HARRY> Re: Flynn. I don't know.

<Krenon> You know he's got Flynn lined up for another collaboration.

[6:34] <Vash> bbinasec,

[6:34] * Vash gets a screwdriver....


[6:36] <HARRY> Heorot had been in the works since BEFORE Liven and Barnes met. Larry wanted to do one about a planet, where the colonists had to change the planetary ecology to something they could survive on, a piece at a time.

[6:37] *** Red_AFK is now known as Redflame

[6:37] <Redflame> Hello!

<Krenon> But he must have had problems with writing it. I wonder what they were.

<Krenon> Hi Carol.

[6:37] <Redflame> I'm going to read the log and catch up.

[6:37] <HARRY> I remember making a comment that Garbage and people who spread shit would be VERY important there and of Hi social status. /:-)

<Krenon> You missed an explanation of how Niven and Barnes met, but you probably know that anyway

[6:37] <HARRY> Hi Carol

[6:38] <Vash> seeds are now gone

[6:38] <Vash> <sigh>

[6:40] <HARRY> It's in the log Red... Or should be.

<Krenon> Yes, it is.

<Krenon> But can you date that meeting?

[6:42] <HARRY> Sorry no. It was back just after 76 (The REAGAN SHUTTLE 4th of July).

[6:42] <Vash> quite a way back then.

<Krenon> That's close. Anyone here know when Dream Park was first published?

[6:42] <Vash> when was the first Niven/Barnes collaboration printed?

[6:43] <HARRY> Not off hand, Hmmm, Check with the publisher.

<Krenon> It was in the 70's.

[6:43] <HARRY> I think that was an ANALOG.

<Krenon> It'll be in the biblio from N-space or BtG

[6:44] <HARRY> I'm kinda shaky about most of the 70's/80's. I was drinking quite a lot back then and not really sane.

[6:45] <Redflame> I"ll look in his biblio.....

<Krenon> If it was after 4 July 76 it probably wasn't too long after, I think.

*** Retrieving #KNOWNSPACE info...

[6:45] *** Krenon changes topic to 'New FA Questions'

<Krenon> I don't like tautology

[6:46] <Redflame> The first story Niven and Barnes wrote together: 112. "The Locusts," with Steve Barnes, Analog, June 1979

<Krenon> Here's one: Who's Susan Stepney and why does her website carry the Niven light bulb jokes?

[6:47] <HARRY> Not by a lot... I hosted Steve to a shuttle landing soon after and convinced Larry to come out and see a landing from the "CHEAP" seats across Rogers Dry Lake where the commoners were. He LOVED IT!

[6:47] <Redflame> Second: 121. "Retrospective," with Steven Barnes, Destinies, Summer 1980

[6:47] <Redflame> Third: 126. Dream Park, with Steven Barnes, Limited edition with signatures from Phantasia Press [February, 1981]

[6:48] <Redflame> fourth: 136. The Descent of Anansi with Steven Barnes, segment in Analog, October 1982 [(#136b)]

[6:48] <Redflame> Tor, [September]1982 [(#136a)]

[6:48] <HARRY> RIGHT Red. I was in on part of Anansi.

[6:48] <Vash> so it still took 4 years from their initial meeting until anything went to press

[6:48] <Redflame> I've never heard of Susan Stepney

[6:49] <Redflame> Mags can hold a story for a year easy!

[6:49] <Redflame> Brenda and Larry have sold two more stories, for a total of four.

[6:49] <HARRY> Things like that take TIME. Larry knew Jerry for almost 5 years before anything showed in print.

<Krenon> If you go to the Niven light bulb jokes page as linked on KS somewhere, or on Vash's pages, you can trace it back to her home page.

[6:50] <Redflame> Is her email connected to her page?

<Krenon> Yes

<Krenon> She's a GEEK

[6:51] <Redflame> But none of us has bothered to write her?

[6:51] <HARRY> He's known David Jerrold for some time before FLYING SORCERERS too. Hmmm The report is that David joined LASFS by walking in and filling out the usual card and when asked to say something about himself announced the HE wrote TROUBLE WITH TRIBBLES. His membership was instantly accepted by Acclaim.

<Krenon> No. I was thinking about it

[6:51] <Redflame> Vash, while Harry is here, we need to hit him up with historical questions he might be able to answer, since he has known Larry and Jerry for so long.

[6:51] <Vash> I'd love to read the Flying Sorcerers, unfortunately it was published when I was two so I don't expect to find a copy lurking......

<Krenon> I struck one of her pages the other day. She has a lot of them, about sf as well as esoteric aspects of computing.

[6:52] <HARRY> Almost 30 years Red.

[6:52] <Redflame> :-) That is funny about Gerrold.

<Krenon> You want a copy?

[6:52] <HARRY> Great GHU, It HAS been that long, hasn't it!

[6:53] <Vash> I'd like to read it, Duncan's review on KS makes it sound very "lets break the Prime Directivey" and as a trekkie, it appeals

[6:53] <Redflame> That one is a hard one to find. 

[6:53] <HARRY> Gerrold can be quite funny at times, although back then he could also be quite annoying.

[6:53] <Redflame> What is/was so annoying about Gerrold?

<Krenon> I've seen the occasional second hand copy

[6:54] <Redflame> Second hand is the only way I've ever seen it!

[6:54] <Vash> if you see one, pick one up for me, I'll send you the postage

<Krenon> Forget the postage.

<Krenon> If I find one it's yours.

[6:55] <Vash> 10x

[6:55] <Redflame> Ok, if I see one, I'll get it for you. I do always look under G when I am looking for used rare Niven books.

[6:55] <Redflame> Read Trouble with Tribbles?

[6:55] <Vash> You know, looking for new Niven books is a sad experience nowadays, you'll find a lone copy of Destiny's Road and that's all

[6:55] <Vash> Well, I saw the episode.

[6:56] <Vash> Star Trek magazine voted it the funniest ever ST scene (tribbles falling on Kirk's head)

[6:56] <Redflame> I suppose that it has been novelized, unfortuantley, that would be harder to find in the second hand bookstore, since it would be with the MOUNTAIN of ST books, rather than under "G" like the FLYING SORCERERS.

<Krenon> brb

[6:57] <HARRY> In the shooting of TRIBBLES, remember when there was the occasional Tribble bouncing off Shatner's head? David was the one throwing them /;-)

[6:57] <Vash> LOL

[6:58] <Redflame> LOL!

[6:58] <Redflame> The last scene?

[6:58] <Redflame> That is funny.

[6:59] <Vash> But in the episode of DS9 that revisited that scene, they had Dax and Sisco throwing them down on Kirk!

<Krenon> back

[6:59] <Vash> Krenon missed the tribbles......

<Krenon> I'm reading

[6:59] <HARRY> *COMMERCIAL BREAK* It's time to start bombarding POCKET BOOKS ( I think) about Leslie Fish's BANNED FROM ARGO book again. It IS in the hands of a senior Editor but she's heard nothing from him in 2 months.

<Krenon> Banned From Argo BOOK?

[7:00] <Vash> actually, do you think tribbles resemble hamsters, .... hamsters are supposed to be the most voracious breeders in the mammal world....

[7:00] <HARRY> I'm talking about the Actualities of the First episode. THE DS9 thing was a good take though. /:-)

[7:00] <Redflame> Re Gerrold and Niven: I read somewhere Niven talking about Collaborations. He said that Gerrold is the only person where he could write in the same room together, that Gerrold would type awhile, giggling, then stop, and pass it over to Niven, telling him something like "Ok, get them out of THAT!"

[7:01] <HARRY> Truly Red. I got the same story from both of them.

[7:01] <Redflame> :-) 

<Krenon> I recall reading that too. NS or PotM I think.

[7:01] <Vash> so did Niven then laugh too?

[7:01] <Redflame> Cant' you hear that in your head?

[7:01] <Redflame> Yes, the process delighted both of them.

[7:02] <HARRY> Leslie has written a ST Novel based on the Filk BANNED FROM ARGO she wrote about 30 years back. BANNED FROM ARGO is a Filksong that just won't die!

<Krenon> Makes one wonder why they never collaborated again

[7:02] <Redflame> Harry, I"ll try to remember to go to that site and pester them.

<Krenon> I noticed that about the song.

[7:02] <Redflame> song?

[7:02] <Redflame> yeah.

[7:02] <HARRY> They never tell about the problems that Larry wrote David into. /:-)

[7:03] <HARRY> Please spread the word Red. I helped with it and it's a FUN read!

<Krenon> Leslie is on record in an interview that her favorite self composed song was Hope Eyrie and her least liked was BfA

[7:03] <Redflame> Possibly because David was getting into script writing, and Larry doesn't like doing that, although he did a few for Land of the Lost.

[7:04] <Redflame> yeah, and BFA is probably the most requested filk of all times!

<Krenon> I'd buy it if it's reasonably priced, but I can't see it being on sale here.

[7:04] <Redflame> It would be in pb, I bet.

[7:05] <Redflame> From the front page of KS, where do I find the light bulb joke link?

[7:05] <HARRY> Truly Krenon... BTW she's here if you'd like to see her on line for a bit. Kre, if they sell the other ST novels where you are, When BfA get's published, they'll have it on the racks where you are... Foreign Sales are what help fuel these things.

[7:07] <Redflame> Harry, Has anyone showed Leslie my filk on BFA? The Niven filk, which he named "Alien Invasion Song"?

[7:07] <HARRY> I don't remember if I did. If you ask, she might come on line (In my place) and chat a bit.

<Krenon> They certainly sell Trek novels

[7:08] <Redflame> Won't come here?


[7:08] <HARRY> Red Come here?

[7:10] <Redflame> Yeah, maybe Leslie can come here and say hello!

[7:10] <Redflame> Oh, that is my song.

[7:10] <HARRY> She's on the way.

<Krenon> I just brought up and I'm not getting the graphic of Larry.

[7:10] <Redflame> Cool.

[7:11] <HARRY> Anything else?

[7:11] <Redflame> The link to his pic is broken when I look too.

[7:12] <Redflame> anything else about the FAQ?

[7:12] <Redflame> Vash, you have the FAQ questions there?

[7:12] *** Vash has quit IRC (Ping timeout for Vash [])

<Krenon> The url of the lightbulb jokes page is

[7:13] <Redflame> Harry, if Leslie isn't' here yet, Vash has the list and she just got timed out.

[7:13] <HARRY> She's almost here.

<Krenon> is Susan Stepney's home page

[7:13] <Redflame> Robert Sneddon <> is the one who posted the light bulb jokes to the net. Wonder if HE collected them.

<Krenon> The link is on the Known Space www page

<Krenon> and of course my mirror page.

[7:14] <Redflame> I was just looking on the larrlink page.

[7:14] *** HARRY is now known as LeslieFis

[7:14] <Redflame> Krenon, it would be funny to teach those light bulb jokes to alien. I notice he isn't here now.

[7:14] <Redflame> Hi Leslie!

<Krenon> is the url but it's not there, though the KS WWW page is

[7:16] <Redflame> Leslie, if you aren't TOTALLY sick of even hearing anyone mention BFA to you..... I wanted to point out a filk I wrote to it, about Niven and Pournelle's FOOTFALL.

[7:16] *** Vash ( has joined #KNOWNSPACE

[7:16] <Redflame> Hi Vash

[7:16] <Vash> Hello and welcome, Vash!

[7:16] <Vash> ooops I crashed, had to reboot

<Krenon> Hi Vash

<Krenon> :-)

[7:16] <Redflame> Vash, it would be fun to teach Alien the Niven Light bulb jokes.

[7:17] <Redflame> Vash, Leslie Fish is here. She's kind of quiet right now though.

[7:17] *** Redflame sets mode: +o Vash

<Krenon> Yes, or maybe even some of the "You know you've been reading too much Niven"

[7:17] <Redflame> Yeah, is alien sick?

[7:17] <Vash> the Niven's laws page is here:

[7:18] <Redflame> DL that, if you want a copy. it might not always be there. Larry doesn't' remember giving permission or not.

<Krenon> Got it.

[7:18] <Vash> I've got a copy on my HD anyway

<Krenon> Downloaded

[7:19] <Redflame> Ok, I just put it in his biography!

[7:20] <Redflame> Leslie, are you there?

[7:20] <LeslieFis> Look two spaces up.

[7:20] * Redflame sends greetings and felicitations to the Fish!

[7:20] <Redflame> Leslie, if you aren't TOTALLY sick of even hearing anyone mention BFA to you..... I wanted to point out a filk I wrote to it, about Niven and Pournelle's FOOTFALL.

[7:21] <Redflame> It is on the net at

<Krenon> Didn't know Leslie Fish had a beard :-)

[7:21] <Redflame> beard? 

[7:22] <LeslieFis> Great! Be sure to send a copy to my publishers, John & Mary Creasey, at, so they can include it in "The Bastard Children of Argo".

<Krenon> Well there seems to be evidence that Harry and LeslieFis are one and the same.

[7:22] <Vash> Beard?

<Krenon> Ah. You're on the same computer

[7:22] <LeslieFis> No way; we're just using the same computer until mine gets back from the shop.

[7:22] <Redflame> I've put it out on the web, and it was in one worldcon filksong book, but I'll do that. Last I heard, they weren't looking for more "children"

<Krenon> OK.

[7:23] <Redflame> Krenon, didn't you HEAR Harry say that he was going to get Leslie?

[7:23] <LeslieFis> Actually, they could use a couple more; some of the ones they wanted, they couldn't get written permission for.

<Krenon> No

<Krenon> I was probably looking up the last url

[7:24] <Redflame> WEll, mine is available. I have a collaborator on it, but we have both given the song away to be reproduced at will. We aren't going to get rich off the rare song we write.

[7:25] <Redflame> Larry and Jerry were amused by it! I dressed Larry and a couple other friends up as fithp and INVADED (made an entrance into) a GoH speech of his. I hope most people there got the reference.

[7:26] <Redflame> Leslie, weren't you doing filk before it even had that name?

[7:26] <LeslieFis> That's OK. Just tell the Creaseys where it was published before, and they'll include that in the notations/credits for the song.

[7:26] <Vash> nah! They just thought you were the remnant cast of Dumbo! :-)

[7:27] <LeslieFis> Yep. I was writing STAR TREK songs before the first ST con, back in the early '70s.

[7:27] <Vash> Oh, i missed Harry going....

[7:27] <LeslieFis> Red, Harry wants to know what the URL for the Java link is.

[7:27] <Redflame> Mmm. Last time I wore that costume, I walked up to a friend I met at that convention, elephant ears and bifurcated trunk and everything, and she looked at me, and a moment later admitted that she recognized me b4 she even noticed that I had on a costume.

<Krenon> Carol, did you ever check with Leslie about the attribution on that web page? Now might be a good time. For me too as it's on my website.

[7:27] <Redflame> I'll look.....

[7:28] <LeslieFis> What attribution? What website?

[7:28] <Redflame> Attribution regarding BFA on FIS?


[7:28] <LeslieFis> Hmm, 'scuse me: web PAGE.

<Krenon> This is a filk. It may be sung to the tune of "Banned from Argo" by Leslie Fish.

[7:28] <Redflame> THAT is my song. Ted is the web master of that page. He is concerned about MENTIONING BFA on him site.

<Krenon> Krenon=Ted

[7:29] <LeslieFis> Oh, go ahead and mention all you like! Scr*w the NAPSTER decision; in my book, it's all free advertising.

<Krenon> :-)

[7:30] <Redflame> Is there a link to a MP3 of BFA that Krenon could link to so people who don't' know it could listen to it?

[7:31] <LeslieFis> I don't know, but I think the Creaseys would. Red, Harry wants that Java site; can you find?

[7:31] <Redflame> Ted, is there a current email for Judy that I could include in an email to Leslie's puplisher?

[7:31] <Redflame> I'll look NOW.

[7:31] <Redflame>

<Krenon> Just a sec, Carol

[7:32] <Redflame> This is the JAVA link to this page. You do have to enter "chatnet" and "#knownspace" in the appropriate places, I think.

[7:33] <Redflame> I don't' really want to call up a JAVA chat client, because it makes my computer crash when I have up mIRC.

[7:33] <Vash> no, it should be already set up, all Harry needs to do is enter his name where it says "Java User"

[7:33] <Redflame> There you go.

[7:33] <LeslieFis> Harry says thanx.

[7:33] <Redflame> great!

<Krenon> I think that is still valid. Her home page is still at

[7:34] <Redflame> Is he going to try to get here too?

[7:34] <Redflame> Ok, ty.

[7:34] <LeslieFis> I don't know. He's off on Peggy's computer right now, looking up that Java site.

[7:34] <Redflame> I"m not going to cc to Judy, as she has already given blanket permission to reproduce.

[7:35] <Redflame> Are the computers networked? 

[7:35] <LeslieFis> No, alas. He'll be back here when he's done.

[7:35] <Redflame> More than one phone line?

[7:36] <LeslieFis> Yes: one for the computers, one for the household.

[7:36] <Redflame> Cool. If someone wants to talk to me, they need to send me email or be patient, because I only have ONE line, and I stay on the computer a lot!

[7:36] <LeslieFis> 'Scuse me for a minute or two, folks; I've got to go hang out the laundry.

[7:37] <Redflame> ok, seeya later!

[7:37] <LeslieFis> Don't worry; Harry will be back on in a minute.

<Krenon> I must keep that bit of log along with the permission letters from Larry.

[7:38] <Redflame> Fine. But MENTIONING a song is not the same as reproducing a performance of it. Besides, Leslie os on the blanket permission to reproduce with attribution list.

[7:39] <LeslieFis> Hmm, while I'm waiting for Harry to come pick this up so I can go get the laundry, I'd appreciate anybody out there emailing Pocket Books and asking them about "Banned From Argo", so that Ordover will finally get back to my agent about it. Thanx.

<Krenon> But saying: ... may be sung to the tune of ... by ... could be seen as different. Not that I was particularly worried.

[7:40] <Redflame> Yeah! Do you have a specific email, or do we need to try posting to that trk list?

[7:40] *** LeslieFis is now known as HarryRedd

[7:41] <Redflame> Leslie is gone? I was going to show her another link.

[7:41] <Redflame>

[7:42] <HarryRedd> Red, you might want to E-mail those links to her.

[7:42] <Redflame> I'll cc a letter to the creasys that I am writing to her, what is her eddress?

<Krenon> She's with earthlink too isn't she?

[7:43] <HarryRedd> Leslie, Larry and I are all on Earthlink. /;-)

<Krenon> Oh yes. So she's

[7:44] <Redflame> :-) Harry is starting up a consortium of sf fans on earthlink. Soon, they will have enough for a chatroom!

[7:44] <Redflame> :-) 

[7:45] <Redflame> Vash, are there more FAQ you are still looking for answers too? 

[7:46] <HarryRedd> Actually, Joe Zeff is the one pushing Earthlink on Fanns. He's a Tier !! GURU there and helps keep the quality of the server from going to hell. /;-)

[7:47] <Vash> Another FAQ question, how many references are there to the poem Beowulf in Niven's stories?

[7:47] <HarryRedd> That should be Tier II

[7:47] <Redflame> I think someone can just look that one up themselves, 

<Krenon> Well every time Beowulf Shaeffer's name is mentioned. Plus "Grendel" the short story and the two Heorot books

[7:48] <Redflame> Unless you are talking about listing each and every one!

<Krenon> Tier?

[7:48] <HarryRedd> I spotted at least 5 in Beowulf's children, I think GRENDEL has about 7 or 8 more... At least Events in the Poem.

[7:48] <Vash> Grendel was mentioned in Legacy of Heorot

[7:49] <HarryRedd> Tier= LEVEL.

<Krenon> OK

[7:49] <HarryRedd> The kind of Guru that other gurus send the problems they can't handle too.

[7:49] <Vash> Carol, read Triv

[7:49] <Redflame> Ah!

[7:50] <Redflame> LOL!

[7:50] <HarryRedd> Hmmm I have a Triv question about the movie KING KONG. anybody want to try it?

[7:50] <Redflame> What is a young salmon is called ?

[7:50] <Vash> Has anyone else wanted to read Salmon as Samlon after reading Legacy of Heorot?

[7:50] <Redflame> yes!

<Krenon> Depends on what age.

[7:51] <HarryRedd> A FRY (Young Salmon) or a Sprat.

<Krenon> Smolt (?)

[7:51] <Vash> Ted, add that to the you know when you've read too much Niven file.....

<Krenon> Give me the full entry. You know you've been reading too much Niven when...

[7:52] <Vash> you see the word Salmon and read samlon instead....

<Krenon> OK

[7:52] <Redflame> A young salmon is called a parr, according to the triv channel that JUST now asked about that!

<Krenon> I have a few more to put there too.

[7:52] <Redflame> Yeah, that is funny!

[7:52] <Vash> talk about topical

[7:52] <Redflame> FUNNY!

[7:53] <HarryRedd> Ok Red. "The Natives are restless and want the "GOLDEN GIRL". The captain says "we'd better get back to the boats before they cut us off" and Film Producer Dennim says, "Yeah, but take it easy." and walks off whistling a popular tune of the day. Name that TUNE!

[7:53] <Redflame> Anymore FAQ questions?

[7:53] <Redflame> I'm listening to the Carpenters. Can't think of any tune except "I love you, I really do"

[7:54] <HarryRedd> Red??

[7:54] <Redflame> What song? I give.

[7:54] <Vash> are the Dream Park books and Descent of Anansi books part of the same universe?

[7:54] <HarryRedd> St Louis Blues. /:-)

[7:54] <Redflame> I'm too slow to get that Harry.

[7:54] <HarryRedd> I think Descent and Fallen Angels are part of the same universe.

[7:54] <Vash> Ted, K9's routing for you in the Trivia Channel <g>

[7:55] <HarryRedd> Ah well, As a musician I tend to notice things like that.

[7:55] <Redflame> Bee is an Aussie.

[7:55] <Vash> oh, you're on speaking terms then?

[7:55] <Redflame> I never thought of trying to fit them together before. I thought they were independent books.

[7:55] <Redflame> I've spoken to Bee. That is her entrance.

[7:56] <Redflame> <K9> !!!AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE OI OI OI!!!

[7:56] <Vash> Descent does mention dream park like scenarios.......

[7:56] <HarryRedd> So did I until I noticed a reference or two.

<Krenon> Bee?

[7:57] <Redflame> Ah. Catch that Vash? Descent and Fallen Angels in the same Universe.

[7:57] <Redflame> The EXACT reference would be nice to list with that mention.

[7:57] <Vash> yes, I though so too.

[7:57] <Vash> The real question I have, which has nothing to do with the FAQ is the short story "Passerby".

[7:57] <Redflame> She is going by babybee right now. She is on the #1worldmirc, a trivia channel that Vash got me hooked on.

[7:58] <Redflame> what about it.

[7:58] <Redflame> What is it about?

<Krenon> What's the question?

[7:59] <Vash> A Rammer (The State universe) returns from the stars to meet a man in the park, who says something about the Monks. (From the Fourth Profession). The thing is, the State universe ( according to a World Out of Time) has met no other intelligent species.......

[7:59] <Vash> I didn't know that Bee was a woman,.......

[7:59] <Redflame> Well, I don't' remember really, regarding Bee.

<Krenon> I would have suspected that someone called Bee would be a woman

[8:00] <Redflame> That is in Passerby?

[8:00] <Vash> Carol have you ever looked at the "Regulars" page that Darch runs:

[8:00] <Redflame> Maybe he was making a reference to the birds and the bees, and since HE isnt' a bird.....

[8:00] <Vash> Yes. I read it the other night, even folded down the page so I would remember to ask Larry about it, but he never turned up last week -(

[8:00] <Vash> :-(

[8:00] <Redflame> I think I have, but I am never one of the top 10!

[8:01] <Redflame> Passerby is a short in a mag?

[8:01] <Vash> Its in N-Space

[8:01] <Redflame> 42. "Passerby," Galaxy, September 1969

[8:01] <Redflame> but N-space would be easier to dig up.

<Krenon> I thought it was the one about the great golden being that pulled the spaceship along

[8:01] <Redflame> It sounds like a minor inconsistency.

[8:02] <Vash> as well as All the Myriad Ways

[8:02] <Redflame> And found also in Inconstant Moon (#60)

[8:02] <Vash> So I'm sort of convinced that the Leshy Circuit Universe, which Night on Mispec Moor is part of is combined with the State, one Rammer to another. But this Monk business kind of complicates the matter

<Krenon> Speaking of "All the Myriad ways" a q I've been sussing out is whether "all the myriad ways" is a quote from somewhere in particular.

[8:03] <Vash> Need to Add Inconstant Moon to the A-Z story page then.

[8:03] <Vash> Boy, Niven is sure complicated at times.....

[8:05] <Vash> and on that note, I must depart....... I'll leave this on for another 1.10 minutes for logging purposes (all that Measley BT will give me......)

[8:05] <Vash> Good Night

[8:05] *** Vash is now known as Vash_bed

[8:05] <Redflame> g'nihgt!

<Krenon> good night

[8:05] <Vash_bed> bye byw

[8:05] <Vash_bed> byw

[8:05] <Vash_bed> bye

[8:06] <Redflame> Wait! Wow has more faq questions!

[8:06] <Vash_bed> e and w are close together when you are tired......

[8:06] <Redflame> who has more FAQ questions?

[8:06] <Redflame> Vash!

[8:06] <Vash_bed> well Carol, I got to number 21,..... its all yours....

[8:06] <Redflame> Do I have the lsit?

[8:06] <Vash_bed> this really is g'night.....

[8:06] <Vash_bed> I emailed it to you on 29/3

[8:06] <Vash_bed> 28/3

[8:06] <Vash_bed> even

<Krenon> parting is such sweet sorrow

[8:06] <Redflame> I'll look....

[8:06] <Vash_bed> and Ted too

<Krenon> Here it really IS good morrow :-)

[8:07] <HarryRedd> I've got much to do also. Any more questions?

[8:07] <Vash_bed> if parting is such sweet sorrow, why do your puns still sting!?

[8:07] <Vash_bed> bye!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

<Krenon> Bye

[8:07] <Redflame> BYEEEEE!

[8:07] <Redflame> I"m looking at the list....

[8:08] <Redflame> I'm trying to pick one that maybe only YOU, Harry, can answer.

[8:08] <Redflame> 33. What are the Leshy, and what are the names of the worlds in the Leshy circuit derived from?

<Krenon> I know there's a reference to James Branch Cabell

[8:09] <Redflame> Don't like that one, Harry? I have another one for you.....

[8:09] <Redflame> Peter just left the room. He would be the one to ask regarding a Cabel reference.

<Krenon> Vash had already found the connection. She didn't recognize the connection with Jerome Branch Corbell though

<Krenon> brb

[8:11] <Redflame> 36. Wasn't Dan Forrester from _Lucifer's Hammer_ modelled after a real person?

<Krenon> I don't know. Is Harry still there?

[8:14] <Redflame> No one is talking.

<Krenon> Well they must be connected.

[8:16] <HarryRedd> Dan Forrester was Dan Alderson. He wrote Programs at JPL for many years... In fact they still use many of the UTILITIES he wrote for Deep Space stuff... All the outer planet Vehicles had Dan's Utilities.

[8:17] <HarryRedd> ??.

[8:17] <Redflame> Cool

[8:17] <Redflame> I might have thought that is was some reference to Forrest Ackerman.

[8:17] <Redflame> 37. Who are the characters from the "Threat Team" in _Footfall_ based on?

[8:18] <Redflame> Shall I get my FOOTFALL? BRB.

[8:18] <HarryRedd> Forry shows in Fallen Angels.

<Krenon> Nat Reynolds - Larry Niven. Wade Curtis - Jerry Pournelle. Robert Anson - er duh.

[8:19] <HarryRedd> Larry, Jerry, Robert Heinline And Ginny" Poul Anderson, Gordy Dickson and I forget who the Female was. 

[8:19] <Redflame> I'll list a name, you tell me the real person.

<Krenon> CJ Cherryh wasn't she

[8:20] <Redflame> female?

[8:20] <HarryRedd> Right, It was C.J.

[8:20] <Redflame> linda crichton gillespie

[8:21] <Redflame> Jeaneete Crichton

[8:21] <Redflame> any idea?

[8:22] <Redflame> Straight on to the listing of people in Colorado Springs: Sergent Ben Mailey, US Army?

[8:22] *** Vash_bed has quit IRC (Read error to Vash_bed []: Connection reset by peer)

[8:23] <Redflame> So much for her another hour!

[8:23] <Redflame> Harry, you know that person?

[8:23] <Redflame> What about Joe Ransom? and Bob Burnham?

[8:24] <Redflame> Is Sherry Atkinson the female you referred to?

<Krenon> This is becoming a monologue

[8:25] <Redflame> Ben Lafferty, Sheriff, Whatcom County, Washington, HAS GOT TO be Raphael Aloitious Lafferty

[8:25] <Redflame> I think Harry is having trouble with is connection.

<Krenon> Would that be Earthlink's fault :-)

[8:26] <Redflame> Dunno.

[8:26] <Redflame> Might be the computer.

[8:30] <HarryRedd> Joe Ransom was actually Robert Ransom a Local to L.A. Computer GURU and Game BUilder

[8:30] <Redflame> ah.

[8:31] <Redflame> Bob Burnham?

[8:31] <HarryRedd> COmputer Problems.

[8:31] <HarryRedd> Sherry was my Ex. Gale Selinger.

[8:31] <HarryRedd> Sherry was my Ex. Gail Selinger.

[8:31] <Redflame> Sherry Atkinson was Gail Seliger?

[8:32] <HarryRedd> Yes.

[8:32] <Redflame> Ok, I"m looking at teh dramatic personae, I don't' see anyone who might be CJ.

[8:33] <Redflame> Bob Burnham? Know who he is?

[8:37] <Redflame> Ken Dutton, bookstore manager, know who that is?

<Krenon> I take the point

[8:39] <HarryRedd> The FEM on the THREAT TEAM is C.J.

[8:39] <HarryRedd> rty Massolgia

[8:39] <HarryRedd> Massolgia= Ken Dutton

[8:40] <Redflame> who is Massolgia?

[8:40] <Redflame> RTY?

[8:40] <Redflame> What is her book name?

[8:40] <HarryRedd> Marty. He runs a LARGE SF BOOK operation in the San Fernando Valley.

[8:40] <Redflame> ok! 

[8:42] <Redflame> so, friends of Ken Dutton would be emps at the bookstore? Might you know their names too?

[8:43] <Redflame> I've got to get my good copy of FOOTFALL. BRB

<Krenon> I really LOL about that Ebay auction where you said someone advertised it as "Football" and didn't get any bidders.

[8:45] <Redflame> lol!

[8:46] <HarryRedd> Possibly.

[8:47] <Redflame> we're still trying to identify the book name of CJ

[8:48] <HarryRedd> THE FEM on the Threat Team. 

<Krenon> But you said Sherry was my Ex. Gail Selinger.

[8:49] <Redflame> THERE IS NO ONE NAME FEM! and there is not a list that says Threat Team. I am trying to ID a name by scanning the book.

[8:50] <HarryRedd> Ah... The one on the Threat Team is CJ. My Ex shows as part of the L.A. Crowd,

<Krenon> One of the "survivors and others"?

[8:52] <HarryRedd> Yes.

<Krenon> Jeri Wilson ... Melissa Wilson

[8:53] <Redflame> Ted, you type from the top, I'll type from the bottom. When you recognize names, Harry, list it.

[8:53] <Redflame> Rosalee Pinelli, and Carol North, citizens of Lauren, Kansas.

[8:53] <HarryRedd> Hmmm, It's really been a while... I seem to remember a NEW AGE Mother and Daughter team for that but can't remember their names.

[8:54] <Redflame> Whitey Lowenthal, welder

[8:54] <HarryRedd> Don't know them but they are Local KC Fans.

[8:54] <Redflame> Leigh Young, Deputy Sherriff

[8:54] <HarryRedd> Garry Lowenthal

[8:54] <Redflame> No, I KNOW that is not right.

[8:54] <Redflame> Who is Gary Lowenthal?

[8:55] <HarryRedd> A LASFS Local who welds and tries to be a Gr4afic Artist. He's not really very bright.

[8:55] <Redflame> lol!

[8:55] <HarryRedd> Not sure, but it could have been Scratch Galloway.

[8:56] <Redflame> Scratch Galloway was Leigh Young?

[8:56] <HarryRedd> Possibly.

[8:56] <Redflame> Who is Scratch?

[8:56] <HarryRedd> There are a few names missing from my memory right now.

[8:57] <Redflame> You may have missed me announcing that Ben Lafferty HAS GOT TO be RA Lafferty.

[8:58] <Redflame> Evelyn Rohrs, former Washington Socialist, and Maximillian Rohrs, general contractor, Bellingham?

[8:58] <HarryRedd> I saw it and as I recall, you're right on.

[8:58] <HarryRedd> Don't know...

[8:58] <Redflame> Know the Rohrs?

[8:59] <Redflame> Ok, friends of Ken Dutton: Cora Donaldson, Sarge Harris, Patsy Clevenger, and Anthony Graves?

[8:59] <HarryRedd> Scratch is still local to LASFS and has had a LOT of professions... Now is into Therapy of some sort as a counselor.

[9:00] <HarryRedd> Sarge Harris is Sarge Workman, Patly is my Ex. Gail.. Anthony Graves might be Marty Cantor. COra? don't recall.

[9:00] <Redflame> Who is Sarge Workman?

[9:01] <Redflame> Martin Carnell, show dog breeder. Mike Resnik raises dogs, just like Larry's mother used to. Wonder if this is Mike or Larry's stepfather.

[9:02] <HarryRedd> Sarge was a LASFASIAN who Introduced me to Larry and the LASFS. Martin (I think) Is Larry's Step.

[9:03] <Redflame> Know his REAL NAME? Larry's step father?

[9:04] <HarryRedd> No, I don't recall it.

[9:05] <Redflame> Mother and daughter team, would that be Isador and Clara Leiber?

[9:05] <Redflame> George and Vicki Tate Evans? Jack and Harriet McCauley?

[9:06] <HarryRedd> Isador and Clara could well be.

[9:06] <Redflame> Know their real names?

[9:07] <HarryRedd> Red, I've been away from the LASFAS for over 15 years... I realy don't remember that much right now.

[9:07] <Redflame> Was fritz lieber married?

[9:07] <HarryRedd> I think so.

[9:07] <Redflame> Well, you are the closest to someone in the know that I know.

[9:07] <Redflame> did he leave a widow and daughter?

[9:07] <HarryRedd> Yeah. 

[9:07] <Redflame> Wonder if they are them.

[9:07] <HarryRedd> Perhaps. I don't remember.

[9:08] <Redflame> Do you have any idea who George and Vicki Tate Evans or Jack and Harriet McCauley are?

*** Retrieving #KNOWNSPACE info...

[9:08] *** Krenon changes topic to '"Footfall" Characters'

[9:09] <HarryRedd> Possibly Hmmm The Cranes... Diane and Bob(?).

[9:10] <HarryRedd> I'd have to Re-Read Foot to ID the people.

[9:10] <Redflame> Diane and Bob Crane is who?

[9:10] <HarryRedd> Possibly the Tates.

[9:10] <vxpmrz3> Now I'm back, more of less.

[9:10] <Redflame> Welcome back. We are trying to ID the people in FOOTFALL.

<Krenon> Or we are asking Harry so to do

[9:11] <Redflame> Actually, that comes down to Ted and me pummeling poor Harry with questions.

[9:11] <vxpmrz3> Unfortunately, the sink's still not installed. And the house doesn't even have a cutoff valve.

<Krenon> :-(

[9:11] <Redflame> What sort of house hasn't' a cut off valve? It has to!

[9:11] <vxpmrz3> That's why it pays to deny any association with anyone alive or dead.

[9:11] <vxpmrz3> redflame: Well, I can't find on on this one. I think it's been cemented over, actually.

[9:12] <HarryRedd> Sometimes it comes in handy vxp

[9:12] <Redflame> Yeah, funny to have a book that sayd "No resemblance" yet everyone knows they ARE resembled!

[9:12] <Redflame> Usually there are ones near major sources of water also, like one under the sink, beside the toilets and washing machines.....

[9:12] <vxpmrz3> That kind of boilerplate happens with Law & Order all the time.

[9:13] <vxpmrz3> Red: There isn't one on the main, and unfortunately, this sink is close to it. 

[9:13] <Redflame> Harry, would you know any of the people mentioned in association with military or Washington?

[9:13] <vxpmrz3> Managed to cut off the water at the sink, but the valves are old and gunky. And I can't replace them because...

[9:14] <Redflame> I was suggesting to Peter that the Honorable Joe Dayton was Deke Slayton, but Peter says NOT as Speaker of the House.

[9:14] <vxpmrz3> Oh well, I'd help with Footfall, but I don't think I have a copy on hand to reference.

[9:14] <Redflame> Neither does Harry. Ted and I are naming names and hoping that Harry can name names too!

[9:15] <HarryRedd> Way back when, I through a COLATION PARTY. Larry had handed me a printout of HAMMER to collate and read... (It was in several boxes.) A LASFASian Friend dropped by Sandh Cohen) saw what was going on and called a another Lasfsian who brought Chips, Dipps and Sodas. Soon another showed with a case of beer... After that more and more Fen showed as were sitting aling the walls, reading single pages, Editing Mistakes, passing the pages one

[9:15] <vxpmrz3> Well, I can't recall the book that well either, it's been so many years since I read it.

[9:15] <Redflame> wow. That sounds like FUN!

[9:15] <vxpmrz3> Wish that'd been done for Kalvan Kingmaker.

[9:15] <HarryRedd> until the book was properly collated and read by all. They ALL brought food or drink and the party lasted about 20 hrs.

[9:16] <Redflame> Was it on perffed paper? 

[9:16] <Redflame> Why did it need collating?

[9:16] <Redflame> WAS IT TYPED!???

[9:16] <HarryRedd> Me too Red. I did SOME corrections o=n the first 4 chapters, then lost contace, as we moved about that time.

[9:16] <HarryRedd> CONTACT!

[9:16] <Redflame> So, original and two carbons, or something.

[9:17] <vxpmrz3> Well, better to lose contact than Constance.

[9:18] <Redflame> Yes, vxp. Very true.

[9:18] <Redflame> Harry, what about Lt. Gen'l Harvey Toland, US ARMY?

[9:19] <HarryRedd> 3 page Printout of the length of the book Red.

[9:19] <HarryRedd> I got to keep one! /:-)

[9:19] <Redflame> Back when paper was joined together?

[9:19] <HarryRedd> Gen Dan Grham I think, It could have been someone else though. Jerry has a lot of Military connections I don't know.

[9:19] <Redflame> So, you all had to tear off the perfs and separate than pages?

[9:20] <Redflame> Gen Dan Graham?

[9:20] <Redflame> Who is Gen Dan Graham?

[9:21] <HarryRedd> High Frontier Project... The ORIGINAL of the SDI or "STARWARS".

[9:21] <vxpmrz3> Chief of Def Intelligence for Ford.

[9:21] <Redflame> Ah. Graham was involved with SDI?

[9:21] <vxpmrz3> That too.

[9:21] <vxpmrz3> Redflame: There's a page at

[9:21] <HarryRedd> Truly vxp. I've met him and he was about as good as they get.

[9:21] <Redflame> Ah. That is good. what about Senator Alexander Haswell. President Pro tem of the Senate?

[9:22] <vxpmrz3>

[9:22] <HarryRedd> He literally wrote the book Red.

[9:22] <Redflame> what is that?

[9:22] <Redflame> Not there.

[9:22] <Redflame> Wait, I didn't have the entire url.

[9:23] <Redflame> Ah, that will be something to reference in this list for sure. Thanks.

[9:23] <Redflame> I was suggesting to Peter that the Honorable Joe Dayton was Deke Slayton, but Peter says NOT as Speaker of the House. Any other ideas?

<Krenon> brb

[9:25] <vxpmrz3> When was Footfall published?

[9:25] <HarryRedd> John Glenn.

[9:25] <Redflame> 1985

[9:26] <vxpmrz3> Hmm, don't think he'd be Tip O'Neill then.

[9:26] <HarryRedd> Sam Rayborne?

[9:26] <Redflame> Dayton is in Ohio, John Glenn was the senator from Ohio. Joe Dayton must be John Glenn.

[9:26] <HarryRedd> RIGHT!

[9:27] <Redflame> Takes a team!

[9:27] <HarryRedd> You DO know that Jerry was on the Mercury Selection Board? He has stories about the original 7 and Glenn in particular.

[9:27] <vxpmrz3> Sounds good to me.

[9:27] <Redflame> No, I wasn't' aware of that.

[9:28] <vxpmrz3> But I'm going away to work on that sink, see you folks another time. 

[9:28] <HarryRedd> Yeah. I've heard several.

[9:28] *** vxpmrz3 ( has left #KNOWNSPACE

[9:28] <Redflame> Ok, how about Senator Raymond Carr, Senator from Kansas?

[9:28] <HarryRedd> Red, I REALLY have to go.

[9:29] <Redflame> Ok. We have a nice start to the list of characters from Footfall. 

[9:30] <Redflame> I need to give the children some 'tention.

<Krenon> I thought all that was actually documented somewhere.

<Krenon> I need to be elsewhere too

[9:30] <Redflame> I have never seen a list, although people keep talking about there being one.

<Krenon> However, you may rest assured that the log will be saved and examined

[9:31] <Redflame> Yup/

[9:31] <Redflame> Bye, Redd

<Krenon> Bye

[9:32] <HarryRedd> ADIOS All. See you on the LIST.

[9:32] <Redflame> bye!

[9:32] <HarryRedd> *GONE*

<Krenon> Bye Harry

[9:32] *** HarryRedd ( has left #KNOWNSPACE

<Krenon> Bye Carol. Catch you on AIM

[9:37] <Redflame> Bye, Ted! See you on AIM!

[10:17] *** laracroft (laracroft@ has joined #KNOWNSPACE

[10:17] <Redflame> Hi laracroft

[10:17] <laracroft> hi

[10:22] <Redflame> Hello

[10:22] <Redflame> I didn't see you.

[10:23] <laracroft> what u mean

[10:24] <Redflame> Are you a Niven fan?

[10:25] <laracroft> no

[10:25] <Redflame> Oh. How did you find this room?

[10:26] <laracroft> i just found it

[10:26] <Redflame> Ok. 

[10:27] <Redflame> We had a lot of people in here earlier for our regular chat, of Niven fans, but it is pretty quiet right now.

[10:27] <Redflame> Even the bots are quiet.

<Krenon> Sure is.

<Krenon> One bot is absent

[10:27] <laracroft> y don't u go to different chats

[10:28] <Redflame> I am in a different chat! Two others. One in mIRC!

[10:28] <Redflame> Another someplace else!

[10:28] <Redflame> I miss Alien.

[10:28] <laracroft> ohhhhh

<Krenon> :-)

[10:29] <Redflame> K9 doesn't do near as many tricks as Alien does.

<Krenon> If you want to see Alien you could try #ufo

[10:31] <Redflame> Alien is there? Why isn't he here too? They are better than us?

[10:31] <laracroft> lol

<Krenon> #ufo is the principal haunt of Crow, the guy who built Alien

[10:32] <laracroft> lol

[10:43] *** laracroft (laracroft@ has left #KNOWNSPACE

[10:53] *** Redflame has quit IRC (See you later! Gotta go do mommy things.)

Session Close: Sun Apr 08 10:54:09 2001