Chat Log: April 7th 2002

Session Start: Sun Apr 07 05:53:23 20021

<Harry> Vash, I'm watching Gammera -vs- the Sonic Monster. (Glog)

<Vash> wb ted

<Harry> Wb tTed

<Krenon> Hi. I had a connection problem

<Akatsukam> Rehi, Ted.

<Krenon> Back shortly

<Harry> -k- Ted

<Harry> Somebody want to E-Mail Carol (RedFlame)?

<Akatsukam> Done.

*** flatlandr has joined #knownspace

<flatlandr> Hello?

<flatlandr> This space must be big. I can't even hear echoes.

<Krenon> Hi

<Akatsukam> Afternoon, flatlandr.

<Harry> Hi Flatlandr

<Vash> Hello Flatlandr

<flatlandr> Ah, there's one/two. Hi, Justin, Akatsukam, Harry, Vash.

<Harry> Krenon, any ideas for a topic?

<Krenon> Give me a minute.

<Vash> Flatlandr, you are using the default nickname for the java interface, can you change your nick by typing /nick yournewname please

*** flatlandr is now known as fithp

<Harry> -k-

<Harry> FITHP?

<Vash> Oh, hello Larry!!!

<Harry> LARRY!

<Krenon> :-)

<fithp> Hello.

<Krenon> Nice to see you.

<Krenon> I'm hoping to meet you at ConJose.

<Harry> Good to see you Larry.

<Krenon> Looking for Carol: she hasn't got AIM open

<Harry> I sent an E-Mail Kernon.

<Vash> I'm using the laptop downstairs, so I can't check where she is either

<Krenon> If she hasn't got AIM open it probably means she's off line so she may not have seen the email

<Akatsukam> Does she use ICQ?

<Krenon> Personally I'd like to have a bit of a discussion about magic.

<Vash> She uses AIM

<Krenon> No

<Vash> and Mana?

<Krenon> Yes and whatever else goes with magic.

<Vash> chips?

<Krenon> ?

*** Vash is now known as Nesssus

<Nesssus> as in Chips with everything

<Akatsukam> Chips don't go with magic; baked potatoes do :)

<Krenon> Oh. I'm still fighting cholesterol.

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<Redflame> Hi Redflame

<Krenon> Hi Carol

<Nesssus> Hi Carol

<Redflame> Hey!

<Harry> Hi Red.

<Redflame> hi!

<Akatsukam> Afternoon, Carol.

<fithp> Hi Carol!

<Redflame> Larry?

<Krenon> Yes

<Redflame> John, I was just about to tell you that I was on my way here.

<fithp> Redflame, it is I. How' s life?

<Akatsukam> We see that now; I guess that there is no need :)

<fithp> New things have been happening. For some time now I've been getting email about "Halo".

<Redflame> Life... well enough. Lanae is going into the hosp Wednesday for yet another new treatment.

<Redflame> From people concerned about whether it is Ringworld?

<Nesssus> Has anyone here got an Xbox yet?

<fithp> Halo is a game on Xbox, with dynamite visuals. The structure that is the game's site looks like a poor man's Ringworld.

<Redflame> Not me. I waste enough time playing on my computer. I see no reason to find a new way to waste time.

<Akatsukam> No Xbox; none wanted.

<fithp> So I get emails suggesting I sue, and I keep saying I can't patent nor copyright a ring.

<Redflame> Poor man's Ringworld... nothing YOU need then!

<Krenon> So, does it violate your copyright, or have they negotiated anything with you?

<Harry> Even a poor copy can yield a good idea or two Red.

<Krenon> But ... BIG rings?

<Nesssus> Someone suggested that the Ring on Halo looks more like one of Brin's orbitals anyway

<fithp> Now I've gotten a suggestion from Del Rey Books: shall I write a novelization of Halo?

<Redflame> LOL!

<Harry> Data like gold is where you find it.

<Nesssus> lol

<fithp> I waffled. I can't jump into a fully programmed universe, I said, and write anything good. It works better if I've been living in that universe.

<Harry> Well, it would connect you to a new audiance.

<Nesssus> I think I saw that novelization suggestion on one of the sci-fi news pages but the report suggested that other authors were being approached

<Harry> And a BIG one, All in one chunk.

<Redflame> I can see where that might go. The pupeteers, having found the Ring world, build a prototype around a moon. As they don't think their imitation skrith is as sstrong as the original, they build only a small


<Akatsukam> Hmmm. I think there might be TOO much interaction between Halo and Ringworld.

<Redflame> fithp, you've played Halo?

<fithp> I'm about to play Halo. They sent me an Xbox and Halo, and some other games too.

<fithp> Steve Saffel's suggestion.

<Redflame> They.... the creators of Halo? Del Rey?

<Krenon> Ah. That answers my question. So an Xbox is a game station

<Nesssus> the privileges of being a big time author......


<Krenon> Methinks there's a lot of work that comes before the freebies

<Nesssus> Xbox is a game console by micro$oft

<fithp> This might work for them. I did sequels to the 1001 Nights and the Berserkers, and rewrote the Green Lantern universe, because I was already living there in my head.

<fithp> They who sent me the stuff are Microsoft.

<Redflame> Ah.

<Harry> Fithip? Peg sends a HUG.

<fithp> Hug to Peggy, and health to you both.

<Redflame> Stawberries are in season. The best I have tasted since the lasttime I was in California. I wonder if the grower in CA accidently let go some of the berries they keep for the CA natives.

<Krenon> They keep the best for the CA natives?

<fithp> There's a Strawberry Festival, annual, near us. I've missed a couple of years, but may make this one.

<Krenon> I need to know what to eat when I get there in August

<Redflame> That is MY personal opinion abotu why berries in CA taste betterthan berries in TX and OK. I never liked them much, until I had some in CA! The festival is soon?

<fithp> I'm not aware that CA is sending you outofstaters second rank strawberries. Conspiracy theory!

<Harry> Why not Larry? The top grade California Avacados are all sent to New York!

<Krenon> We do a reasonable strawberry in New South Wales, Australia

<Nesssus> We get English strawberries in June/July, but any other time of the year they mostly come from Spain.

<Krenon> Not a bad avocado too

<Nesssus> The spanish ones are usually bigger, but only have half the taste

<fithp> May 18 and 19 is the Strawberry Festival.

<Redflame> Maybe they are just picked too soon, to spend four weeks sitting in the dark to slowly ripen while being transported.

<Akatsukam> Aha! I'll tell wagimoko to buy the next avocadoes in NY, then.

<Harry> 9*** L*O*V*E*S AVACADOS ***

<Krenon> I don't blame you

<Nesssus> Avacados have a strange soapy taste. Did you know that they are the fruit with the most calories? Even more than sweet lushious strawberries.

<Krenon> Strawberries are very low in calorific value

<Krenon> As you say, avocadoes are high

<Nesssus> Yes, I think Lemons have more calories

<fithp> try avocados with bay shrimp.

<Redflame> Dried strawberries are to DIE for!

<Krenon> Bay shrimp?

<Nesssus> Yes, I've had avocados and crabsticks

<Redflame> Bay shrimp, are they large? Boiled?

<Nesssus> somehow fish and avocado works!

<Krenon> They do indeed.

<Harry> The breed of the avacado has much to do with the taste. The HASS variety is oily and somewhat soapy in taste.

<Krenon> I don't find them soapy. We have Hass avocadoes

<Krenon> I'm fairly eclectic in tastes

<Redflame> I don't find them soapy either. Maybe they mean.... slimey, slick.

<Nesssus> I have Tesco's avocados


<Harry> Bay shrimp are tiney and usually boiled. Try mashing an avacado adding a touch of garlic and onion powder and some ground Cumin and mixing Bay Shrimp into that. Delicious!

<Redflame> Next con in Houston: June 14 - 16, ConSortium. GoH Timothy Zahn. Anybody planning on coming? :-)

<Krenon> The Americans might not understand that

<Krenon> Are there any Tesco's in the US?

<Akatsukam> Bland and buttery, I'd say. Perhaps a difference in perception?

<Harry> What's a Tesco?

<Nesssus> A Supermarket

<Krenon> A big supermarket chain in the UK

<Redflame> Hmm. With Cumin? Just have some.... I made some WONDERFUL Chili recently, with Cumin, and.... chocolate!

<Krenon> Over 300 stores as I've heard.

<Harry> Ah. Nope we have (UGH) Safeway instead.

<Krenon> They also have Safeway

<Redflame> Safeway all closed. Kroger's seems to have taken over. Now, Albertsons are leaving too.

<Harry> Safeway took oer KROGER here... Except for WAL-MART, who still sells Kroger brand goods.

<Harry> I don't like that trend. One store means that your choices get limited very quickly.

<Nesssus> Never heard of Kroger

<Harry> So far, Kroger brand has been pretty good quality at a reduiced price.

<Nesssus> I think Walmart also own Asda, another large supermarket chain over here (uk)

<Harry> Fithp? What do you think of the Chinese claim that they are ready to orbit a man and want to put up a Space Station?

<Redflame> When my other lost my single cup coffee filter, I looked in ever coffee specialty store in New Orleans, and a dozen different chains and specialty stores in Houston, and FINALLY found them at Albertsons. I've tried to be faithful since then, but now, they are LEAVING me!

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<Redflame> Hi Andy_L

<Nesssus> Fithp, any news on Ringworld's Child?

<Akatsukam> Afternoon, Andy_L.

<Nesssus> Hello Andy

<Andy_L> Hi Carol. Glad to be here after so many missed chats.

<Krenon> Hi Andy

<Harry> Hi Andy.

<Andy_L> What's today's hot topic?

<Akatsukam> The usual :)

<Krenon> I suggested magic but so far it hasn't happened

<Redflame> ANyone catch the new Draco Tavern story in REDSHIFT?

<Krenon> What's Redshift?

<Redflame> Andy, you can plug your wife's upcoming book!

<fithp> I have nothing to tell you re Ringworld's Child, as I'm working on two other novels.

<Andy_L> Magic? Plenty to talk about there.

<Akatsukam> OK, magic and mana. About them?

<Redflame> "Extreme Visions of Speculative Fiction" ed by Sarrantonio

<Krenon> I was thinking about Sauron's Ring, and whether it had anything equivalent to mana in it.

<Andy_L> Redshift is sort of "Dangerous visions" for the new millenium

<Redflame> fithp, re RWC, do you even know how many children are involved?

<Andy_L> Hmmm. Sauron certainly poured a lot of his power into the Ring

<Krenon> So it's a sf anthology

<Redflame> Yeah, I've only read that one story though.

<Akatsukam> Probably not. Mana is a finite resource, which doesn't appear to be the case in Arda.

<Harry> I would suspect that Sauron's Ring would have a whole BUNCH of MANA in it.

<Krenon> That's it. But did it come out bit by bit with use?

<Andy_L> And the whole Tolkien sequence of every declining magic in Middle Earth fits

<Nesssus> Gandalf and Saruman both owned staffs set with Gems, mana stones?

<Andy_L> with mana depletion

<Krenon> The gradual decline of the elves as a race fits too.

<Andy_L> Maybe the Ring was so powerful because Gollum was ineffective in using up its manna?

<Akatsukam> Only if the total amount is trvial compared to the amount used to date.

<Krenon> Elves needed something - arguably similar to mana

<fithp> everyone in the novel is shaped by the Ringworld. Probably I'll retitle it RINGWORLD'S CHILDREN.

<Nesssus> The Ring only started growing in power again when Sauron awoke and started calling to it.

<Nesssus> Twins?

<Harry> Consider the stones of Far Seeing... Also consider that other than a stove, the biggest Watt hog in your home is likely to be your TV Set and or COmputer Monitor.

<Krenon> The power of the Ring was always there, but its purpose changed when Sauron started looking for it

<Nesssus> For most of the time that Gollum owned it, Sauron was asleep/discorporated

<Andy_L> BTW since Carol mentioned it first, my wife's first book is coming out soon - no magic or manna, just a little lost loon (Title is "A Loon Alone" for 4-8 year olds)

<Akatsukam> Hmmm. A possible Warlock/KS crossover here?

<Andy_L> The Ring needed someone who knew how to use it.

<Krenon> Yes and no. Certain beings would never learn how to fully use it

<Redflame> Sounds loony! :-)

<ducks quickly>

<Andy_L> Meteors have a lot of manna presumably because the inherent manna in them hasn't been used yet - so space is full of manna

<Krenon> But others would, and they would become dark lords if they tried

<Harry> I would suspect that the invisibility granted by THE RING was a default property of it... There were other powers associated with it that would take MUCH more power.

<Nesssus> Larry, how many more Draco Tavern stories do you feel you need to write before they will be the right length for a dedicated Draco Tavern collection?

<Krenon> Good q

* Nesssus thinks the Draco Tavern stories would make a great TV show!

<Harry> Hmmm, COnsider NASA sending an Indian SHAMAN to the moon?

<Akatsukam> Just so, Andy. So, mankind gets into space, and finds mana available again.

<Andy_L> Galadriel essentially suggested that her decline in power was inevitable unless she took the Ring - maybe it is both a source of manna and a way to obtain more manna from distant places?

<fithp> Re Draco Tavern: Beats me. Eleanor Wood wants as many as she can get. I would think she'd start sounding out publishers now.

<Krenon> Yeah. Rick Schumann would make an interesting centrepiece for a TV series

<Andy_L> Akatsumka - that would be cool - wizards in space

<Redflame> We ALL want as many as we can get! ;-)

<Akatsukam> Indeed, we might postulate that EVERY sapient race has gone thru the mana depletion experience.

<fithp> Could you sell the Draco Tavern as the new Cheers?

<Redflame> LOL!

<Nesssus> How many SF shows seem to centre around a bar?

<Nesssus> DS9 - Quarks Bar

<Akatsukam> Human wizards vs. kzinti ones?

<Redflame> Every author seem sto have a bar series!

<Nesssus> Star Trek TNG: Ten Forward

<Andy_L> Dracos - the place where everybody knows your metabolism type

<Nesssus> Babylon 5: The Zocalo

<Nesssus> the list goes on

<fithp> At this time I think I've done under 20 Draco Tavern stories.

<Andy_L> DS 9 - Quark's

<Harry> Akat. Gasperik's Correlary states that "Any sufficently advanced form of Magic is indistingishable from Technology".

<Akatsukam> Aha! So that's the Outsiders' secret! :)

<Nesssus> Harry, that was originally Clarke's but you've got it turned on its head

<Krenon> Oh dear. Our little Tolkien group did discuss Sauron's Ring as if it were a piece of technology.

<Harry> Bars are not politically Correct. It would have a tough time making it past the NetZecs.

<Andy_L> Maybe there's some way to connect manna depletion with the hyperspace/gravity well exclusion

<Akatsukam> As a naturally space-faring species, the Outsiders are in the idea position to...

<Harry> I said it was a Correlary Nessus.

<Akatsukam> ...avoid mana depletion.

<Andy_L> Krenon - there was an article in SF Weekly a few months back about the Ring as technology

<fithp> The secret is, whatever works, some people will get better at. Magic that works will be treated as technology.

<Redflame> I prefer to think of magic as a form of psychology.

<Harry> Kzin would not make good wizards. They'd try to execute the spell before it ws finished.

<Andy_L> Great point fithp - that's another reason to doubt claims of pyschic powers - there's no transition to the practical

<Akatsukam> That not only explains Outsider tech, it explains SCSI drives as well :)

<Andy_L> Maybe only kzin telepaths could use magic. Puppeteers might think magic too dangerous to mess with

<Andy_L> There are valid technical reasons why a chicken sacrifice isrequired when setting up scsi drives!

<Nesssus> ?

<Andy_L> Redflame - mob psychology might be a form of magic - did you ever see "The Music Man"?

<Krenon> What has chicken got to do with scsi? What do you use with eide?

<Harry> MUSIC MAN Carol? Ever watch the proceedings of COngress?

<Redflame> Yes, "Good night my someone good night, my love, sleep TIGHT my someone sleep tight, my love..."

<Andy_L> Chicken gizzards are kind of scuzzy - the connection to scsi should be clear

<Nesssus> maybe virgins, Ted

<Harry> WIth IDE you use a goat.

<Krenon> And USB?

<Nesssus> a pig

<Krenon> Nesssus, where does one get THEM these days?

<Redflame> GUys at my church have an annual goat roast. However, I do not think they actaully kill the goat at the time.

<Nesssus> the Vatican

<Andy_L> Harold Hill takes vague illease among the River City folk and creates, as if by magic, a marching band, respect for literature and a happier life for most of the town - he's a witch

<Redflame> My brother's pig just had babies. They are about 3 weeks old now. I could get my mom to bring one down next week....

<Akatsukam> Freshly killed goat tastes terrible. You want it thoroughly blooded and aged a little first.

<Nesssus> I think Ted was asking about Virgins....

<Krenon> I was

<Nesssus> Akatsukam, you make a goat sound like a pheasant that needs to be hung for a while...

<Akatsukam> Obvoiusly, technology that relies on sacrificing virgins doesn't work often enough :)

<Redflame> I'd think a half hour soaked in brine or milk would be enough.

<Harry> BTW, We finally got some rain here. I was awoken by a crack of thunder at about 7 Am. Peggy said that the Angels were bowling again.

<Andy_L> Speaking of magic as technology - did anyone ever read Walter Jon Williams' Metropolitan - I recommend it. Manna, he calls "plasm"

<Redflame> The pig, not the virgin.

<Redflame> I thought that was Thor who liked to bowl!

<Akatsukam> Farmed pheasant doesn't really need hanging, although it does need blooding.

<Redflame> Akatsu, when something is "blooded" how long should it hang? Is half an hour enough?

<Nesssus> Larry, is Burning Tower one of the "two novels" that you are currently working on? If so, what is it's progress?

<Akatsukam> Large amountss of blood left the flesh of anything makes it taste nasty.

<Harry> Usually about 6-8 hrs Carol.

<fithp> "Burning Tower" is one of the two, yes. It's going well. Jerry's at a con, so for the moment, it's mine.

<Harry> Less in hot weather.

<Akatsukam> You want all the blood that will drip out on its own to do so. Koshering is not necessary.

<fithp> The other novel is "Creation Myth". I'm reading the work Brenda has been doing.

<Redflame> So, a goat roast where one actually killed the goat, would need to be a very long event.

<Akatsukam> Oh, to be sure.

<Nesssus> Will you be doing any more exploration trips, like the one you did last October in New Mexico - or is the story almost wrapped up by this stage?

<Harry> How has Brend been doing Larry?

<Harry> BRENDA!

<fithp> Brenda's been doing good work. I've done little on this first pass...but it's time I got deep into this.

<Krenon> brb

<Andy_L> brb?

<Redflame> Redd, was wondering if "Brend" was a nickname I hadn't heard before inconnection with her!

<Nesssus> Be right back

<fithp> Exploration trips: we've done all we need for Burning Tower. For the probable sequel, we'll need to get into Mexico.

<Redflame> Good that it is set in the Americas, and not the middle east!

<Nesssus> I hope you like Tequilas....

<Harry> Mexico produces a tolerable Brandy Nessus.

<Harry> Infact several.

<Redflame> Not liking fermented grains or juices, I'd have to carry a lot of water, and probably would keep a water boiler on hand too. I've heard it is the ICE that gets most people!

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<Andy_L> A "Brandy Nessus" - sounds like a great mixed drink - requiring two heads of course

<Redflame> Hi xihr

<xihr> hello

<Nesssus> Hello Eric

<xihr> fithp?!

<Akatsukam> Afternoon, xihr.

<Nesssus> YES!

<Harry> Hi xihr

<xihr> heh, cool

<Andy_L> hey there xihr

<xihr> what's up guys

<xihr> Nesssus: long time no see

<Nesssus> We are talking about Manna and Magic

<xihr> as the years go buy you keep adding S's :-)

<Nesssus> I'm usually here as Vash too ;-)

<Andy_L> Talking about manna in space, future books and goat-killing practices

<Redflame> Has anyone here ever heard of "winter wine" what is supposed to be a form of non-distilled brandy where wine is frozen to remove excess water?

<Harry> The AZTEC Two Step is an Amobic disease Nessus. Amobeas freeze well and revive well too.

<Akatsukam> Yup, Carol.

<Harry> Yupper Red. I've even made it.

<Andy_L> Redflame - no, but sounds easier than distilling and effective enough to pack a punch

<xihr> bb

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<Redflame> How old is that technique, and where did it originate?

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<Redflame> Hi xihr

<Andy_L> Maybe by accident

<Harry> You can generally gat a winter wine to about 20-24% 40 Proof.

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<Harry> I think it started in France or England.

<Andy_L> Guys - I've got to run. It's been great to chat - see you on the list

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<Redflame> I was not trying to imply that winter wine would cause something to not cause Mentezuma's revenge. I was thinking aobut some mint wine my sister made. I dont' allow alcohol in my house, and Lanae can't drink with the drugs she is taking, but I was thinking that making it wintter wine would be easy, and SOMEONE else might enjoy the result better.

<Harry> I wonder if it would work with Ale?

<fithp> winter wine seems straightforward. The dregs might freeze in the ice too, and alcohol might kill the amoebas.

<Redflame> Ale has the fizz. Freezing repeatedly would mess with that.

<fithp> Should work with ale and beer, sure. I'm absolutely guessing, folk.

<Redflame> My step father, an engineer with Phillips Petroleum, made winter wine once. The dregs sunk, and the ice forms on top. from what I remember.

<Nesssus> Have you got a favorite tipple, Larry?

<Harry> Alcohol WOULD kill the Amoebas Fithp. The Ph isn't right for them if alcohol is present.

<Krenon> De-alcoholising by selective freezing is a bit tricky

<fithp> Freeze dried beer. Just add club soda!

<Krenon> :-)

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<Redflame> Hi bcooper

<Redflame> Is it Ted? Have you done it.

<Nesssus> Hello Brenda

<Redflame> Speak of the devil!

<bcooper> Hi Carol! I was afriad you all would be done by now

<Redflame> I do have to leave early.

<fithp> Hello, Brenda

<Harry> BRENDA! Great to see you!

<bcooper> Me as the devil?

<Krenon> No, but I've looked into it. The problem is that the alcohol is what doesn't freeze so you have to get the liquid out while retaining the solids, at -10 C or less.

* Redflame is taking her kids to a benefit concert.

<Krenon> Hi Brenda

<Redflame> We were talking about you.

<fithp> I'm halfway through Creation Myth. It's a lot smoother...and I'll not go into detail for the mob.

<bcooper> Hi Larry, Harry. Glad to hear Myth is better - lot's of work!

<Nesssus> we don't mind spoilers.....


<Redflame> Mob? Us? But we have established that mobs are FULL of magic!

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<Redflame> Hi gfish

<gfish> Heya

<Harry> Hi Matthew!

<gfish> Sorry, had to go run some errands.

<Redflame> Is it something about beautiful spring weather that makes everyone want to come inside and sit at their computers? :-)

<Nesssus> Welcome back Matt

<Krenon> Hi Matt

<bcooper> It's not beautiful spring weather up here! It's raining in Seattle.

<Nesssus> I don't know about beautiful spring weather, its been blowing one hell of a gale here today.

<bcooper> You must be in the nice place Redflame

<Harry> It was BEAUTIFUL here thismorning. We GOt RAIN!

<Krenon> Well it's a fantastic autumn day here in Sydney

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<Redflame> Hi SteveS

<SteveS> Hi, all!

<Nesssus> Hello Steve

<Harry> HI Steve.

<bcooper> Hi Steve

<xihr> mid-60s, partially cloudy in the Bay Area

<Redflame> I actaully wnet outside and worked in the yard. It was perfect


<fithp> I just opened my blinds. The day is bright but cloudy.

<xihr> here it's not that cloudy but not bright for some reason either

<xihr> your average confused Northern California winter day

<Redflame> My favorite, next to heavy shade. Beleive it or not, I'm not a sun worshipper.

<SteveS> It's bright but a little chillier than usual this time of the year.

<xihr> rain frightens us here in the Bay Area

<Nesssus> back in a sec

<Redflame> LOL!

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<gfish> Not raining in my part of Seattle. Nice sunny day.

<fithp> I've never really tried to nail down what you worship, Redflame.

<xihr> when it rains we think we're being punished and drive erratically

<bcooper> Well, then don't move to Seattle - we worship the sun whenever it shows up. It's such a rare occurence it must be a sign from God.

<xihr> fithp: are you all recovered from your injury?

<Harry> Something just occured to me Fithp. The Earth's mass is growing by about 1,000,000 tons a day due to the collection of Micrometeorites. The MANA will NEVER go completely away!

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<Redflame> Hi Vash

<fithp> I am recovered from all injuries, especially the torn knee. If I can hike, it's healed enough.

<Redflame> LOL. In that case, I might make exceptions. My eyes are just so sensitive to light. Maybe I'm actaully a vampire, or some other creature of the night.

<Vash> back!

<Harry> Wb Vash

<xihr> fithp: good to hear

*** Vash is now known as Nesssus

<fithp> Yes, of COURSE manna resides in meteorites. Griffith Park Observatory must be (and is) a very magical place.

<bcooper> I was late to the party - did you all talk about today's announcement of likely chlorophyll on Mars?

<Redflame> No!

<Redflame> Bring it up!

<SteveS> Chlorophyll on Mars?!

<xihr> yeah, I scanned past that as well

* xihr remembers 2010

<Krenon> Do creative artists, including writers, absorb mana in their creative activity?

<Nesssus> no - I've not checked my email since this morning.

<Harry> Now THAT is interesting!

<Nesssus> 2010 was Chlorophyll on Europa

<Harry> Where's the article Brenda?

<xihr> yes

<bcooper> They are saying there a number of likely spots. More to be announced at a conference in San Jose this week - NASA's astrobiology conference. See CNN for article

<Redflame> Yes.... Artists are also vampiric in nature, drawing creative energy/life force from those around them.

<Nesssus> Is that in the Mars rock, Brenda?

<Nesssus> Or have they found another source?

<gfish> It was in spectroscopic analysis of Pathfinder images.

<gfish> Which seems like pretty weak evidence to me.


<bcooper> Krenon: We hope for mana!

<Harry> OMG! There goe the Creation Myths... Nobody tell the Baptist Church!

<bcooper> Yes, it's weak evidence - but the original vidence for water was weak too. I am hopeful.

<Redflame> Peter says that he heard about that rumor, and that it was too early to get excited about it.

<Krenon> Feminists might want to say persona :-)

<fithp> okay if I get excited early?

<Redflame> fithp, YOU can get excited any time you want!

<bcooper> Yes, too early. I was trying to go to the conference, but I am stuck in seattle. Now I want to be there twice as badly.

<Redflame> conference... space access?

<bcooper> Fithp: ditto redflame

<bcooper> No - the astrobiology conference. Next week, San Jose. Science fiction night on Wednesday, lots of stuff that would go over my head the other days, but I'd get some of it.

<fithp> We're booked for a wedding, a birthday, and a lot of traveling during the Space Access window. I'm going to miss it.

<Krenon> :-(

<Redflame> "A wedding, a birthday, and a lot of traveling" sounds like a new movie.

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<Krenon> Hullo! Why did they all go?

<fithp> Have fun at the astrobiology event, Brenda. Nobody ever absorbs all of the data.

<Redflame> Oh, lots of people got bumped.

<bcooper> Wow - bye everyone!

<SteveS> Starring Hugh Grant!

<Krenon> Must have been on a server that went down

<Redflame> I'm sure they will be back.

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<Krenon> There they are

<Harry> Grief!

<Krenon> Magic :-D

<gfish> Re

<Harry> WB All!

<Nesssus> oh you are all back

<Nesssus> We just suffered a netsplit

<fithp> folk, it has become my lunchtime. Fare you well.

<Nesssus> that is where the IRC servers lose contact with each other

<Krenon> Bye

<Redflame> Hi Nesssus

<Redflame> Hi gfish

<Redflame> Hi xihr

<Redflame> Hi Harry

<Harry> Interesting article Brenda... I wonder what else would match the spectral signature of Chlorophyll?

<Nesssus> Goodbye Larry

<Krenon> Catch you at ConJose

<xihr> fithp: see you

<SteveS> Bon apetit, Larry! :-)

<Nesssus> It was a pleasure having you here

<xihr> Redflame: I had a feeling your greetings were automated :-)

<bcooper> Is gfish Mathew Dockrey? He was on the list once, and anyway, I heard his group (escape key) at Norwescon. They were good.

<Redflame> Larry, Peter asks you a ??

<Harry> Adios Larry. Have a good one.

<Nesssus> Brenda, yes.

<gfish> Yes, I am he. And thanks. :)

<Redflame> He wonders if you know of a SF writer who still uses word star.

<bcooper> Bye Larry - have a super day!

<gfish> I'm still on the list, I just don't post as often.

<Krenon> I use a bit of one of Michelle's songs as an opening on my computer

<bcooper> Well, I never post. Got your CD - it's good!

<Harry> Red, I'd use Q&A WRITE 4.0 if I could find a copy.

<fithp> Redflame, I have no idea who uses wordstar.

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* Redflame sighs

<SteveS> I think I may have an old copy of Q&A Write on a floppy somewhere.

<bcooper> One of the people in my writing group does - Renee Stern.

<Krenon> Gone - like the Outsiders in their inertialess drive.

<Redflame> Peter says he was surfing recently, and someone was telling about

using a DOS emulator under Linux so that someone could continue to use WordStar.

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<Krenon> They split again

<bcooper> Wow - these guys don't get to stay long. What's a netsplit anyway?

<Krenon> Some mysterious esoteric attribute of IRC I presume

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<Krenon> Either that or we have a witch operating :-)

<Redflame> Hi Ness_food

<Redflame> Hi gfish

<Redflame> Hi xihr

<Redflame> Hi Harry

<Harry> Wb all.

<SteveS> Since IRC uses several different servers, I'm guessing that some servers connected to a given room split away and form their own rooms

<Krenon> Naaa - it's definitely magic.

* Redflame hides her wand

<bcooper> Magic sounds better

<Krenon> But you didn't hide your broom or cat

<Harry> ??

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<SteveS> Brooms and cats can be innocent, and wands can't?

<Nesssus> Hello?

<bcooper> Hello....

<Krenon> Hi

<bcooper> If that's magic, then the computers are using Mana as fast as outer space is feeding us...

<Harry> Here Nessus.

<Nesssus> I'm going to change servers

<Harry> -k-

<Redflame> My broom, I'm going to throw away my favorite magic broom that I used in our wedding. It is falling apart, and I'd rather not add repairing my broom to my list of responsibilities.

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<Krenon> In one of the later "History of Middle Earth" series (Christopher Tolkien publishing every word his father ever wrote), referred to Morgoth having "squanderes his being" on corrupting Middle-earth

<Redflame> Even the QUEEN has a wand. They just call it a septer.

<Krenon> meaning he had a lot of something the equivalent of mana, and he wasted it

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<Redflame> Hi nesssus

<nesssus> That's better

<bcooper> Well - you can keep a little bity of the broom (like some bristles?) and decorate a new one - transfer the magic! Easy.

<Krenon> I can't remember any mention of the broom in your wedding.

<Harry> So Red. ANything now on RAWA?

<nesssus> shouldn't that be the Groom at the wedding?

<Harry> Am I alone here?

<bcooper> Good question Harry --

<Redflame> No, I"m here, just can't quite talking....

<Harry> Cats aren't the only familiers Krenon, just the best ones.

<nesssus> Only SETI can answer that one.....

<Redflame> Broom, Good idea, Brenda. Esp the bow is worth keeping.

<Krenon> Have you all seen Carol's wedding page?

<Redflame> We jumped over the broom just before the pronouncements.

<Harry> You going for a NIMBUS 2002 Red?

<SteveS> Why isn't Richard Dean Anderson selling something useful like Stargate access, instead of lame long-distance phone cards?

<Redflame> Rawa recently sponcored a sporting event. I'll forward you the announcemnt if you like.

<bcooper> Are things getting better for them there? There's so much I read about that makes me glad I'm here!

<Harry> The binding works better than the straws Brenda. Magic Threads!

<bcooper> Ah - good idea. Utility probably depends on what the binding is made of on her particular broom.

<Krenon> brb

<Redflame> The Northern ALiiance is little, if any, better than the Taliban.

<Harry> Red? Would you please send me the RAWA links? I want to post them on a couple of chat rooms.

<Harry> And there's no wonder about that Red. ALl the progress made in Afghanistan was wiped out by the Russians and the Taliban.

<Redflame> They usually list links at the bottom of every letter they send out.

<bcooper> How are they no better (I suspected )

<SteveS> What is RAWA?

<Redflame> One letter they sent out told about the Northern Alliance killing Pushtun babies they oulled from the arms of of their crying mothers.

<Redflame> A women's group in Afghanistan.

<bcooper> Ouch.

<SteveS> Ah.

<Harry> Remember Red, the Northern Alliance is a GROUP not a single body. Tribal hatreds die Hard in places like afghanistan/

<SteveS> I didn't know that, but I'm not exactly surprised.

<Redflame> Yes, they are all very very predjudiced over there.

<Harry> Much of that country is still at the 14th century level.

<bcooper> Humans ARE usually crueler and.or stupoder in groups than as individuals.

<bcooper> Stupider - is that a word anyway --? But you get the idea.

<Redflame> The new "government" is still not giving any political power to the women. They need to stop treating the women worse than slaves.

<Harry> Truly Brenda. I've seen people do things as groups they would NEVER consider as individuals.

<Harry> Errr Red? One thing that no Western GOvernment has taken into account. Slavery still exists in the world and FLOURISHED in Islamic cultures.

<bcooper> Red: If they are at least getting health care and education, then the rest will have to follow, I hope. Too much change too fast might not work, no matter how bad the thought of less than prefect freedom


<bcooper> FLOURISHES. Article in a recnt magazine - I don't remember which one.

<Harry> Too much change too fast NEVER works. It just produces backlash. SOmething that American Feminists have never learned.

<Harry> You know that Money Grab going on by those Black Activeists? I wonder if they KNOW that the enslavement of blacks is still going on in Africa..

<Harry> Of course, it's being done by other Blacks, so maybe that dosen't count.

<bcooper> That's alittle simplistic. I know some black activists, and not all of them are thrilled by the suit, nor do they ignore the slavery. Same issue as with the afghani's - group behavior.

<Redflame> Too much change too fast may not be good for MEN, but it is usually much better for women.

<SteveS> I don't know about that, since I've read tht a lot of support fror female genital mutilation comes from the women themselves.

<bcooper> Yes, women are good at change. But political change is best done more slowly, espacially in a fragmented poor place. Knowledge and education, exposure to modern ideas - those will matter a lot in the long run.

<Harry> I can't think of a culture where too rapid a change (Not just about the treatment of gender either) hasn't had some catistrophic results Red.

<Harry> Slower chang worked in Iran and is STILL working.

<Redflame> I'm supposed to be leaving for a concert, and I have NO idea where it is, and neither does anyone else here, so I have to try to figure it out.

<Harry> -k- Red. ENjoy!

<bcooper> It's hard to see women (or anyone) disenfrashed from things we think of as basic.

<bcooper> By Red. I've got to go too. Have fun at the concert!

<Redflame> RIght now, I'd rather just send everyone away and be by myself.

<Krenon> Bye Brenda

<Redflame> TY, nice talking to you Brenda. See you at Con Jose?

<bcooper> Well, maybe it will be a good concert.

<xihr> later

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<Harry> Brenda, a truth is, that it is hard to envision ANYTHING unless you spend a lot of time at it or go there and see it first hand.

<Harry> Adios Brenda

<SteveS> Bye, Carol and Brenda!

<bcooper> I'll be at conjose. Bye all!

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<Harry> I should go too. Time for pain Meds.

<Harry> Adios all.

<Krenon> Bye

<SteveS> Bye, Frank!

<Harry> Adios Krenon, Steve.

<Harry> 1-gone=

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<Krenon> BOO!!

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<Krenon> Scared him off :-)

<Krenon> I think it might be about time to wrap this up

<SteveS> <g>

<SteveS> Yup, looks like it.

<SteveS> I can't believe I was at the grocery store most of the time Larry was here...

<Krenon> We have the whole thing on log anyway

<Krenon> Or I do, don't know about the others.

<Krenon> Nobody seemed to expect him to show up

<SteveS> Yeah, that's true.

<Krenon> I suppose he likes to pay his respects to his fans occasionally

<Redflame> Bye.....

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<Krenon> Bye Carol

*** Krenon is now known as Krenon_monitor

<nesssus> I'm going to be off too

* nesssus SHOUTS "GOOD NIGHT, TED"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

<nesssus> bye steve

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<SteveS> Night, Nesssus!

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<Krenon_monitor> Bye bye bye

Session Close: Sun Apr 07 08:44:07 2002