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2013-08-03 02:06:09 : <fredskuentz> let's make johnmanyjars do it
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2013-08-03 15:35:22 : <johnmanyjars> is it chat day? have i actually remembered
2013-08-03 15:39:31 : <fredskuentz> si
2013-08-03 15:39:52 : <fredskuentz> 03/03/13
2013-08-03 15:40:10 : <fredskuentz> that date only happens once every 16 million parsecs
2013-08-03 16:15:13 : <sean> thats a lot of parallax seconds.
2013-08-03 17:07:20 : <fredskuentz> it's like the phoenix asteroids
2013-08-03 17:13:32 : "Lensman" joined the channel.
2013-08-03 17:42:38 : "fredskue_" joined the channel.
2013-08-03 17:43:52 : <Lensman> Hi Fred!
2013-08-03 17:43:52 : "fredskuentz" left the channel.
2013-08-03 17:44:30 : <Lensman> Just peeking in at the moment. Also reading and writing e-mails for the Piper discussion list.
2013-08-03 17:55:03 : "Akiraa" joined the channel.
2013-08-03 17:55:06 : "Jim" joined the channel.
2013-08-03 17:55:20 : <Jim> hi
2013-08-03 17:57:37 : <Lensman> Hi Akiraa, Jim.
2013-08-03 17:57:45 : <Akiraa> \\o
2013-08-03 18:00:43 : <fredskue_> Howdy
2013-08-03 18:01:38 : <Lensman> Anything new in the world of Niven?
2013-08-03 18:02:15 : <fredskue_> facebook keeps asking me to rate his books
2013-08-03 18:06:58 : <Lensman> That would of course be 10/10 or ***** out of ***** for everything, right? ;-)
2013-08-03 18:07:46 : <Lensman> Actually, Fred, I was hoping for the latest dope or trade gossip about the "Ringworld" mini-series.
2013-08-03 18:08:14 : <Jim> I just got finished reading Bowl of Heaven.
2013-08-03 18:11:22 : <Akiraa> you can drop out of facebook
2013-08-03 18:11:31 : <Jim> Facebook keeps asking me to rate everything that I have watched or read.
2013-08-03 18:12:01 : <Akiraa> I feel like everything associated with my facebook will end up on my wall
2013-08-03 18:12:05 : <Akiraa> or someone else's
2013-08-03 18:12:13 : <Akiraa> there's no distinction between private and public
2013-08-03 18:12:19 : <Akiraa> and you can't seggregate your friends
2013-08-03 18:12:29 : <sean> I quit facebook almost 2 years ago.
2013-08-03 18:16:24 : <fredskue_> I think all the ratings end up on my wall, eys
2013-08-03 18:16:26 : <fredskue_> yes
2013-08-03 18:16:48 : <fredskue_> actually I give each Ringworld novel 1 less star than the one before :(
2013-08-03 18:17:07 : <fredskue_> as for the mini series, it's as cloaked as the previous one was
2013-08-03 18:17:28 : <sean> .weather 40601
2013-08-03 18:17:30 : <Outsider> Cloudy, 82.4â„‰ (28â„ƒ), 30.00in (1013mb), Gentle breeze 8kt (â†‘) - KLOU 17:53Z
2013-08-03 18:17:42 : <sean> think I will go to the river.
2013-08-03 18:18:45 : <fredskue_> .weather 85251
2013-08-03 18:18:47 : <Outsider> Clear â˜¼, 98.6â„‰ (37â„ƒ), 29.93in (1010mb), Light breeze 4kt (â†‘) - KPHX 17:51Z
2013-08-03 18:18:57 : <fredskue_> I think I'll hide inside
2013-08-03 18:20:00 : <SeanRiver> dont blame you
2013-08-03 18:24:02 : <Jim> .weather KEKN
2013-08-03 18:24:03 : <Outsider> Overcast â˜, 73.4â„‰ (23â„ƒ), 30.04in (1014mb), Gentle breeze 8kt (â†‘) - KEKN 17:51Z
2013-08-03 18:29:03 : <Lensman> I like /Ringworld's Children/ a lot, altho perhaps that puts me in the minority.
2013-08-03 18:29:27 : <Lensman> Lotta new, fresh ideas in that book, unlike the previous one.
2013-08-03 18:30:26 : <fredskue_> I disliked it :(
2013-08-03 18:30:40 : <fredskue_> I love the cover art though
2013-08-03 18:30:41 : <Jim> It is probably a good thing that all of my friends could not read what I wrote in response to Fred's post about Seattle.
2013-08-03 18:30:50 : <fredskue_> lol
2013-08-03 18:30:56 : <fredskue_> I *almost* deleted it
2013-08-03 18:31:19 : <fredskue_> but I don't think any of my friends kids are on FB
2013-08-03 18:31:27 : <fredskue_> and it was a reasonable sentiment
2013-08-03 18:32:02 : <Akiraa> ringworld miniseries in the works?
2013-08-03 18:32:03 : <Lensman> I started a Facebook page for my Laser Rangers movie group, but I very rarely post to my personal Facebook page. I just assume that anything I post is public, regardless of settings. FB keeps getting hacked, so I just work on the assumption that if I don't want it to be public, I shouldn't post it to FB.
2013-08-03 18:32:44 : <fredskue_> Akiraa, yes, Syfy announced it ... 3 months ago? Larry knows nothing more than what we've all read in the press.
2013-08-03 18:33:04 : <Lensman> Akiraa: The Siffy Channel (aka "
2013-08-03 18:33:18 : <fredskue_> http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/04/10/ringworld-syfy/
2013-08-03 18:33:20 : <Lensman> aka "SyFy" has announced a "Ringworld" miniseries.
2013-08-03 18:33:30 : <Akiraa> SyFy: "we tried sci-fi, but we gotta make some real money"
2013-08-03 18:33:45 : <Jim> yes
2013-08-03 18:34:07 : <Lensman> Considering the travesties they made out of "Wizard of Earthsea" and-- perhaps the worst-- "Riverworld", we don't hold out much hope for anything good.
2013-08-03 18:34:29 : <fredskue_> hey, they made TWO travesties out of Riverworld!
2013-08-03 18:35:02 : <Lensman> I couldn't bring myself to watch the sequel. I suffered enough the first time.
2013-08-03 18:35:40 : <Akiraa> I wish they did go ahead with riverworld
2013-08-03 18:36:32 : <Lensman> Riverworld or Ringworld?
2013-08-03 18:36:58 : "NickE" joined the channel.
2013-08-03 18:37:03 : <Akiraa> riverworld
2013-08-03 18:37:22 : <fredskue_> the second Riverworld at least had Richard Burton in it
2013-08-03 18:37:29 : <NickE> evening
2013-08-03 18:37:34 : <fredskue_> hey nick
2013-08-03 18:37:43 : <Lensman> Now, if they could get the same people who did the "Dune" miniseries, that would be promising. As I understand it, it was shown on Siffy but produced by an outside company.
2013-08-03 18:38:32 : <NickE> Hi Fred, Lens Jim, Mark, Sean, andy Akiraa, xhir :-)
2013-08-03 18:38:38 : <Lensman> Well, that was before it was the Siffy channel. It was still Skiffy then.
2013-08-03 18:38:52 : <Lensman> Welcome Nick!
2013-08-03 18:40:52 : <Lensman> Riverworld without Richard Burton. "Hey, let's do an adaptation of "Riverworld" but leave out the main character! He's too interesting, let's get someone duller. And let's put in horses, because, well, how can you have a pseudo-medieval culture with no horses? And that thing about no metal-- let's just find an excuse to ignore that. Too much trouble for costuming and props."
2013-08-03 18:41:17 : <fredskue_> and why should everybody wake up at the same time?
2013-08-03 18:41:26 : <fredskue_> oh, and the nudity is *right* out
2013-08-03 18:42:21 : <Lensman> Well I expected them to dump the nudity. Not doing so would restrict their audience.
2013-08-03 18:43:05 : <Lensman> I think drapery (that's a Sistine Chapel reference) is acceptable in an adaptation. Even Peter Jackson took liberties with LOTR.
2013-08-03 18:45:24 : <Lensman> Now the guys who did the draperies at the Sistine Chapel... they should have been drawn and quartered for even -thinking- about vandalizing Michelangel's masterpiece. At least they didn't get to the ceiling, they only put the "draperies" on as high as they could reach from the floor.
2013-08-03 18:45:53 : "Hippy" joined the channel.
2013-08-03 18:46:03 : <Lensman> ...as I recall. Could be wrong about that last bit.
2013-08-03 18:46:26 : <Hippy> Afternoon, everyone
2013-08-03 18:46:29 : <Lensman> Welcome Hippy!
2013-08-03 18:46:48 : <Hippy> Thanks, Lens. I'll be back in a sec with a satisfying lager
2013-08-03 18:47:34 : <Akiraa> wait, I thought nudity increases the audience
2013-08-03 18:51:18 : <Hippy> Not in my case
now has a very satisfying lager, because he had to work so hard to get it
2013-08-03 18:55:07 : "CrazyEddy" left the channel.
2013-08-03 18:55:33 : <Lensman> Akiraa: Surely you're not suggesting there's anything logical about the American view of sex, at once an unhealthy obsession and an attempt to stifle normal human behavior.
2013-08-03 18:56:01 : <Lensman> Europeans still think we're Puritains. There's some truth to that, too.
2013-08-03 18:56:28 : <Lensman> Hippy: So is this a home brew?
2013-08-03 18:58:03 : <Akiraa> in olden days, a glimpse of stocking / was looked on as something shocking / but now, god knows / anything goes
2013-08-03 18:58:14 : <Hippy> Nope, Lens. I just coulnd't find the bottle opener
2013-08-03 18:58:38 : <Hippy> ...but eventually I did
2013-08-03 18:58:57 : <Lensman> Interesting, I thought I remembered seeing a documentary on the restoration of the Sistine Chapel that referred to "draperies" being put on to cover the "naughty bits" of some of the more easily reached paintings, but all I see online is a reference to a "fig leaf" campaign and a disparaging characterization of "breeches" (not "draperies").
2013-08-03 18:58:59 : <NickE> heh
2013-08-03 18:59:06 : <NickE> Cheers
2013-08-03 18:59:07 : <Hippy> As to Americans seeming like Puritans, yes. But that is the modern outgrowth of the nanny state
2013-08-03 18:59:16 : <Hippy> Success in crime, Nick
2013-08-03 18:59:44 : <Hippy> Also, speaking of crime, avoid the Newcastele Brown Ale pale blonde Bombshell. Undrinkable
2013-08-03 19:00:17 : <Lensman> Good authors too who once knew better words / Now only use four letter words / Writing prose, Anything Goes.
2013-08-03 19:00:21 : <NickE> I have one of those credit card bottle openers in my wallet...to stop my security card from getting bent of course :-)
2013-08-03 19:00:25 : <Jim> Blonde == Urine ?
2013-08-03 19:00:56 : "dmac44" joined the channel.
2013-08-03 19:01:04 : <NickE> um Blonde Newkey? Kind of a contradiction in terms
2013-08-03 19:01:05 : <dmac44> Hi guys.
2013-08-03 19:01:12 : <Hippy> Close to it, Jim
2013-08-03 19:01:14 : <NickE> Hey
2013-08-03 19:01:19 : <Hippy> Hi, dmac
2013-08-03 19:01:22 : <Lensman> Love that song! Very clever lyrics, but the syncopation makes it difficult to sing. For me, anyway.
2013-08-03 19:01:45 : <Hippy> 'Puttin' On The Ritz' is harder
2013-08-03 19:02:11 : <Hippy> A bottle opener in your wallet sounds a wee bit too alcoholic for me
2013-08-03 19:02:22 : <Hippy> Plus I hardly ever open my wallet so I would die of thirst
2013-08-03 19:02:50 : <NickE> Never actually used it - I really do keep it there to stop the wallet bending, but you know, just in case
2013-08-03 19:03:20 : <Hippy> Fair enough
2013-08-03 19:03:32 : <Lensman> "Always be prepared"... which refers to something -else- lots of guys carry in their wallets.
2013-08-03 19:03:49 : <Hippy> Egad
2013-08-03 19:04:11 : <Lensman> Heavens to Murgatroyd!
2013-08-03 19:08:17 : <Hippy> So...how did the subject of nudity come up?
2013-08-03 19:08:38 : <Jim> Riverworld
2013-08-03 19:08:59 : <Hippy> Oh? I must've missed the nudity in that
2013-08-03 19:09:09 : <Lensman> Fred was complaining about the Siffy Channel removing the nudity from the Riverworld story.
2013-08-03 19:09:27 : <Hippy> Ah, I see
2013-08-03 19:10:29 : <Lensman> And I segued into talking about the Sistine Chapel paintings, which elicited no response from anyone. Philistines!
2013-08-03 19:12:03 : <Lensman> In Riverworld, everyone is nude when he is resurrected. They are provided with towels, which have magnets on them so you can "snap" them together, but it takes a day or two for those to come into general use.
2013-08-03 19:12:06 : <fredskue_> I was just adding to the laundry list
2013-08-03 19:12:19 : "Larry" joined the channel.
2013-08-03 19:12:26 : <fredskue_> Mr. Niven!
2013-08-03 19:12:27 : <Lensman> Hi Larry!
2013-08-03 19:12:31 : <fredskue_> Greetings and felicitations
2013-08-03 19:12:32 : <Jim> Hi Larry!
2013-08-03 19:12:34 : <Hippy> Hi, Larry
2013-08-03 19:12:40 : <dmac44> Hi Larry
2013-08-03 19:12:52 : <Larry> Hello all.
2013-08-03 19:13:32 : <Lensman> What's new in the life of Larry Niven?
2013-08-03 19:13:36 : <johnmanyjars> hello larry
2013-08-03 19:13:57 : <Larry> I lost over a week to food poisoning and complications.
2013-08-03 19:14:09 : <Lensman> Ack!
2013-08-03 19:14:12 : <Hippy> Holy crap!
2013-08-03 19:14:20 : <fredskue_> ack. I hear that. Ive been laid up on and off with it the last month.
2013-08-03 19:14:36 : <Lensman> Were you able to identify the source?
2013-08-03 19:14:56 : <dmac44> Same here, earlier this week.
2013-08-03 19:15:30 : <NickE> back, Hi Larry...ooh, nasty hope it's all over with
2013-08-03 19:15:43 : <Larry> The proofs for THE BOWL OF HEAVEN arrived during that. I couldn't face reading the whole thing again but I looked for the critics' most embarrassing mistakes.
2013-08-03 19:16:20 : <Hippy> What were they?
2013-08-03 19:16:34 : <Larry> Scource, yeah. I think I ate old bacoin.
is glad he sticks to satisffying lagers
2013-08-03 19:17:39 : <Larry> The mistakes? Tananareve appears in the wrong group, and Howard gets his shrapnel spike removed twice.
2013-08-03 19:17:48 : <Lensman> The publisher provides critics' comments along with galley proofs?
2013-08-03 19:17:55 : <Lensman> I think I'm confused.
2013-08-03 19:18:12 : <Hippy> I thought you meant reviews, Larry.
2013-08-03 19:18:17 : <Lensman> (I know, I know... my usual state.)... :)
2013-08-03 19:18:25 : <Larry> no, Lensman. We read the critics on our own.
2013-08-03 19:18:50 : <Hippy> So they are sort of beta readers of the manuscript?
2013-08-03 19:19:06 : <Lensman> These would be pre-publication reviews from those who have read the ARC?
2013-08-03 19:19:19 : <Larry> and also yes. The publisher's publicity person finds the reviews for us.
2013-08-03 19:20:39 : <Larry> understand, it's the puperback we're proofing. Hardback came out last year. Then came the critics/revuewers,
2013-08-03 19:20:58 : <fredskue_> so it's too late for an amended version?
2013-08-03 19:21:14 : <Larry> yeah.
2013-08-03 19:21:23 : <fredskue_> or will the paperback be different than the hard?
2013-08-03 19:21:33 : <Lensman> Ah, the paperback. I was wondering if you were relating an old story, as /Bowl of Heaven/ has been out for awhile.
2013-08-03 19:22:20 : <Larry> paperback will have corrections.
2013-08-03 19:22:33 : <fredskue_> cool
2013-08-03 19:22:44 : <Lensman> So, do you usually do revisions for the PB edition? I know Ed says you added one sentence to the first page of the PB version of /Fleet of Worlds/, but I didn't think you ordinarily did revisions... /Ringworld/ notwithstanding.
2013-08-03 19:22:49 : <Hippy> Maybe they'll do an update for the Kindle edition
2013-08-03 19:23:33 : <fredskue_> LOL, so now I have to search out that one sentence? Since my FLEET is hardcover?
2013-08-03 19:23:35 : <Hippy> On the other hand, it's good to be able to preserve the mistakes
2013-08-03 19:24:15 : <Hippy> One day they wil print persoanlised copies of books so that you will have to buy thousands of copies to check the individual variables
2013-08-03 19:24:18 : <Lensman> Fred: I actually went to the bookstore and looked to see what the addition was. But I don't own a PB edition, either. Just the hardcover.
2013-08-03 19:24:26 : <Larry> why do you want to perserve the mistakes, Fred?
2013-08-03 19:24:34 : <NickE> hi Sean
2013-08-03 19:24:37 : <Sean> hey
2013-08-03 19:24:46 : <Hippy> Hi Sean
2013-08-03 19:24:49 : <Larry> sorry, I meant Hippy.
2013-08-03 19:25:16 : <Hippy> Well, collecitibility I suppose. But also to see how the work develops over time
2013-08-03 19:25:27 : <Jim> My first edition of Bowl of Heaven with the mistakes may be worth something someday.
2013-08-03 19:25:37 : <Hippy> If the erros are erased its like revising history, which I hate
2013-08-03 19:25:55 : <Lensman> Author's perogative, IMHO.
2013-08-03 19:26:11 : <Hippy> I shall have to print my KIndle version and store it away somewhere
2013-08-03 19:26:14 : <Lensman> You don't -have- to buy the revised edition.
2013-08-03 19:26:29 : <Jim> Was error catching better in the old days of publishing?
2013-08-03 19:26:30 : <Hippy> If the KIndle updates itself, yes I do
2013-08-03 19:26:39 : <NickE> I'm, still reading it (should finish it next week - time issues)
2013-08-03 19:27:07 : <Hippy> My memory tells me it was, Jim, but that may be the patina of memory
2013-08-03 19:27:22 : <Lensman> Yeah, and as I understand it, Amazon.com will indeed "update" your version... or even remove it from your Kindle if they decide they shouldn't have published it.
2013-08-03 19:27:35 : <Lensman> Virtual books are only virtually your property. Not actually.
2013-08-03 19:27:47 : <Hippy> Yes, they will, Lens, though they warn you about the updates
2013-08-03 19:27:48 : <fredskue_> We enjoy our first editions of Ringworld
AFK for a lager he only rents
2013-08-03 19:29:04 : <Sean> isnt that the truth, hippy
2013-08-03 19:29:07 : <Jim> Didn't Archie Bunker say that you only rent beers?
2013-08-03 19:29:41 : <dmac44> I wouldn't want to be the 2nd renter
2013-08-03 19:29:47 : <Sean> heh
2013-08-03 19:29:51 : <fredskue_> Speaking of Ringworld, have you heard anything you can share about the Syfy mini-series?
2013-08-03 19:30:09 : <NickE> that would be teh blonde Newkey Brown then
2013-08-03 19:30:57 : <Hippy> I leased it as Stella Artois, I returned it as Pabst Blue Ribbon
2013-08-03 19:31:05 : <Jim> I believe that southern CA has started to recycle water from sewage to potable water, but that the recycled water will only be used for things like fire hydrants and irrigation.
2013-08-03 19:31:24 : <fredskue_> We had a wacky land developer here
2013-08-03 19:31:32 : <dmac44> Hippy: LOL
2013-08-03 19:31:36 : <fredskue_> who tried to set up something like that
2013-08-03 19:31:42 : <Hippy> Oh, and thanks to Larry for putting an Australian in "Moon Maze Game'. I finally read it
2013-08-03 19:31:46 : <fredskue_> but the recycled water would go to drink
2013-08-03 19:32:02 : <fredskue_> and the fresh water would go to his golf courses
2013-08-03 19:32:08 : <fredskue_> :\\
2013-08-03 19:32:16 : <Larry> No word on the SYFY version of Ringworld.
2013-08-03 19:32:36 : <NickE> I believe Thames water passes thhrough an average of 7 people (after recycling and treatment) before it hits the North Sea
2013-08-03 19:33:48 : <dmac44> We're going to have to do that for space travel.
2013-08-03 19:33:58 : <Hippy> One molecule of water in every glass was drunk by Oliver Cromwell
2013-08-03 19:33:59 : <Sean> about to say the same thing dmac
2013-08-03 19:34:07 : <Jim> I was at the Dr office Friday getting labs done and I was so dehydrated that they could not draw blood from me.
2013-08-03 19:34:15 : <Lensman> From Hal Clement's' "Whirligig World", an afterword to /Mission of Gravity/: Writing a science fiction story is fun, not work. If it were work I wouldn't be writing this article...
2013-08-03 19:35:11 : <Lensman> The fun... lies in treating the whole thing as a game. I've been playing this game since I was a child, so the rules must be simple.
2013-08-03 19:35:57 : <fredskue_> Now. see, if I were in charge of the RINGWORLD mini, I'd call Larry at least once a week, if only so I could start every Monday's meetings with "I just spoke to Larry"
2013-08-03 19:36:08 : <fredskue_> Would you like that, or be annoyed?
2013-08-03 19:36:43 : <Lensman> They are; for the reader of a science-fiction story, they consist of finding as many possible of the author's statements or implications which conflict with the facts as science currently understands them.
2013-08-03 19:37:08 : <Larry> I'd like to communicate with them.. I'd like some input. Not a veto, just to keep track.
2013-08-03 19:37:22 : <Lensman> For the author, the rule is to make as few slips as he possibly can. [End quote]
2013-08-03 19:37:26 : <fredskue_> I'm just always amazed at how hard producers work to distance the creators from their projects. I mean, after all, I can always *ignore* Larry's input. But I'd still like to have it.
2013-08-03 19:37:37 : <Lensman> From what Larry says, maybe not all authors -like- this "game".
2013-08-03 19:38:20 : <fredskue_> Plus, you know, pictures of Larry visiting the production offices have to be good publicity.
2013-08-03 19:39:23 : <fredskue_> Certainly better than "unidentified drone works at computer"
2013-08-03 19:39:30 : <Larry> You would think they would want the publicity. I find the silence ominous: as if there's nothing there to publicize.
2013-08-03 19:39:52 : <Lensman> Fred, you ignoring Larry's input about an adaptation of one of his works? I can't imagine such a thing. My imagination isn't that strong!
2013-08-03 19:40:05 : <Hippy> From their point of view they are just buying the name, Larry. You might be lucky and the screenwriter will read the book
2013-08-03 19:40:39 : <dmac44> Have they announced a cast?
2013-08-03 19:40:39 : <Hippy> "Does it have to be a world? Does it have to be a ring?"
2013-08-03 19:40:42 : <fredskue_> again, a mindset I don't understand
2013-08-03 19:41:15 : <Larry> my previous SyFy contact was through INCONSTANT MOON. The scriptwrited was a fan. He kept in touch by phone from time to time.
2013-08-03 19:41:31 : <Hippy> That was a good adaptation, too
2013-08-03 19:41:33 : <Sean> re-read protector. I really enjoy the slower than light stories.
2013-08-03 19:41:39 : <fredskue_> the first thing I'd do would be to score an illegal e-copy of Ringworld, stick it in my computer, and start chopping at it
2013-08-03 19:41:50 : <fredskue_> I love Protector
2013-08-03 19:41:52 : <Lensman> I thought "Inconstant Moon" was a reasonably good adaptation. Faithful to the spirit, at least.
2013-08-03 19:42:29 : <Hippy> So Larry has come off better than poor Raymond Chandler ever did
2013-08-03 19:43:43 : <Larry> I liked the SyFy INCONSTAND MOON very much.
2013-08-03 19:44:45 : <Lensman> I will be quite pleased if they do as good a job with /Ringorld/. But then, "Inconstant Moon" didn't have non-human characters and didn't require much in the way of FX work.
2013-08-03 19:45:23 : <Hippy> Well, maybe Steven Barnes will write the screenplay
2013-08-03 19:46:19 : <Lensman> Has he done a lot of screenplays?
2013-08-03 19:47:24 : <NickE> afk
2013-08-03 19:47:29 : <fredskue_> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1005417/
2013-08-03 19:47:45 : <Larry> Steven Barnes has done a lot of screenplays--for TV, years ago. And he's making a miniature movie now.
2013-08-03 19:48:04 : <fredskue_> Looks like about a dozen
2013-08-03 19:48:25 : <fredskue_> plus others where he just did story or something
2013-08-03 19:48:55 : <Hippy> He's a dab hand at it, too. His 'Outer Limits' scripts were pretty impressive
2013-08-03 19:49:04 : <Sean> inconstant moon was done by the new outer limits. dont think syfy was involved. ah i see. syfy took over co-production in 2001 season 7 incostant moon was season 2.
2013-08-03 19:49:15 : <fredskue_> He wrote an interest Stargate SG1
2013-08-03 19:49:32 : <fredskue_> interesting
2013-08-03 19:50:15 : <dmac44> which stargate did he write?
2013-08-03 19:50:37 : <Larry> Don't miss Steven's take on a time traveling mass murderer. it's wonderful.
2013-08-03 19:50:38 : <fredskue_> The one where Jack catches someting from a space babe and starts to age incredibly fast
2013-08-03 19:50:53 : <dmac44> thanks
2013-08-03 19:51:05 : <fredskue_> Which was much better than I just made it sound :D
2013-08-03 19:51:34 : <fredskue_> It was impressive that he managed to do an enjoyable take on such an oft-used subject
2013-08-03 19:52:22 : <fredskue_> Larry, which is the time traveling mass murderer story?
2013-08-03 19:52:31 : <Lensman> I thought "Stargate SG1" was very well done, at least for the first several seasons. Kinda ran down at the end, but that's true of most TV shows that go on for several seasons.
2013-08-03 19:52:40 : <Hippy> Yeah, itsounds familiar to me, too
2013-08-03 19:53:23 : <Larry> I can't remember the title.
2013-08-03 19:53:30 : <Lensman> SG1 had very good continuity, and I loved how they built out from the single idea of a stargate created by what people saw as Egyptian "gods" to an entire universe, with all sorts of wrinkles on the stargate tech and its implications.
2013-08-03 19:53:31 : <fredskue_> Stitch in Time?
2013-08-03 19:53:34 : <fredskue_> Outer Limits?
2013-08-03 19:53:35 : <Hippy> Stargate had what Star Trek didn't: in later seasons it went for the gags, but it had gag writers
2013-08-03 19:54:05 : <fredskue_> Brannon Braga's writing made me gag
2013-08-03 19:54:12 : <dmac44> Lens: I agree with you about SG1
2013-08-03 19:54:24 : <Hippy> LOL, Fred
2013-08-03 19:54:52 : <Sean> stitch in time according to my google fu.
2013-08-03 19:54:58 : <fredskue_> yes
2013-08-03 19:54:59 : <fredskue_> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0667856/
2013-08-03 19:57:06 : <Hippy> Now, if SYFY gets hold of Ringworld Engineers, that would be a story
2013-08-03 19:58:04 : <Sean> lets see what they do with ringwold first. if anything.
2013-08-03 19:58:31 : <Larry> Mandell and Mickey have rights to all of the RINGWORLD books and can sell them to SyFy.
2013-08-03 19:59:09 : <Lensman> Hippy: Interesting, I hadn't given that any thought. I think RE would make a better movie than /Ringworld/. The conflicts there lend themselves better to dramatization and action scenes.
2013-08-03 19:59:49 : <Lensman> In /Ringworld/, the central conflicts are more cerebral.
2013-08-03 20:00:26 : <Larry> RINGWORLD ENGINEERS was written by a better writer. I was ten years older.
2013-08-03 20:00:32 : <fredskue_> heh
2013-08-03 20:00:36 : <NickE> :-)
2013-08-03 20:00:40 : <Hippy> In RE the characters are in more jeopardy. Plus, if you combine the two, there's the reappearance of (spoiler alert) Teela
2013-08-03 20:01:05 : <Hippy> Good point, Larry
2013-08-03 20:01:18 : <Sean> they will probably focus more on 'Damn... we are stuck. We need to get off this thing!'
2013-08-03 20:01:39 : <fredskue_> I'll have Stitch in Time in 2 minutes
2013-08-03 20:01:47 : <fredskue_> thanks to Al Gore's Interweb
2013-08-03 20:01:50 : <Hippy> They might go completely insane and do it with songs, a la 'Wizard of Oz'
2013-08-03 20:02:18 : <fredskue_> or just make the aliens lightly themed humans, like PRINCESS OF MARS
2013-08-03 20:02:27 : <fredskue_> that's it! Traci Lords as Teela!
2013-08-03 20:02:38 : <Lensman> I don't think /Ringworld/ would be improved by adding singing Munchkins. ;-)
2013-08-03 20:02:43 : <Hippy> But in Ringworld, there's no ticking clock about them getting offf the Ringworld. They can take forever. In RE they have the 'ring/sun/boom' thing
2013-08-03 20:03:07 : <Sean> thanks hippy.... 'we're off to see harloprillalar... the wonderful harloprilllalar of the Ringworld' just scorched through my head.
2013-08-03 20:03:17 : <Lensman> Yes, RE has more suspense.
2013-08-03 20:03:40 : <fredskue_> Sooooooomewherrrrrre, under the Rinnngggwooorrlllllld
2013-08-03 20:03:51 : <Hippy> If RE were a Doctor Who episode, the ring would be crashing into the sun in six minutes. Now that's jeopardy!
2013-08-03 20:03:58 : <fredskue_> Cyyyycles flyyyyyy
2013-08-03 20:03:59 : <Hippy> Sorry. What is jeopardy
2013-08-03 20:04:18 : <Lensman> ...'neath theeeee aaaaaaaaarch...
2013-08-03 20:04:23 : <Jim> Jeopardy or jeopardy?
2013-08-03 20:04:32 : <Hippy> As a book Larry, we all love it
2013-08-03 20:04:52 : <fredskue_> Cyyyy-cles fly under the Ringworld, why then oh why can't I?
2013-08-03 20:05:01 : <Hippy> LOL!
2013-08-03 20:05:12 : <Lensman> That would be "o'er the Ringworld".
2013-08-03 20:05:53 : <dmac44> Vampire films are selling well ..... and Larry does have them on the RW.
2013-08-03 20:05:53 : <Larry> I'm humming along.
2013-08-03 20:06:15 : <Lensman> Okay, just my opinion, but I think Rw is a better book than RE. Just because the conflicts are more cerebral and the suspense less immediate doesn't mean it's not a Great book.
2013-08-03 20:06:25 : <Sean> yeah but you would have to do throne to really bring the vampires into it.
2013-08-03 20:06:28 : <Hippy> Couldn't change the topic to 'Welcome to Ringworld filk'
2013-08-03 20:07:03 : <Hippy> But is it more filmable, Lens?
2013-08-03 20:07:06 : <Sean> yeah, i need to change the config to allow anyone to change topic. I never think about it during the month when i could actually do it.
2013-08-03 20:07:34 : <Lensman> Ringworld uses the main characters as representatives of their species to show what the larger conflicts are between Interstellar civilizations. It's a book with bigger ideas than RE, which focuses more on just the Ringworld itself.
Welcome to Ringworld filk
2013-08-03 20:08:10 : <fredskue_> Ringworld is to Alien as Ringworld Engineers is to Aliens
2013-08-03 20:08:11 : <Hippy> Thanks.
2013-08-03 20:08:25 : <Hippy> Yes, Fred!
2013-08-03 20:08:34 : <fredskue_> Unfortunately .... that makes Throne = Alien Cubed
2013-08-03 20:08:38 : <Sean> skype me about that in a couple of days hippy and i will change the settings.
2013-08-03 20:08:39 : <Hippy> Which makes it better IMHO
2013-08-03 20:09:02 : <Hippy> Righto, Sean
2013-08-03 20:09:29 : <Lensman> Hippy: "Filmable" would have to include considerations of how easy (expensive) it is to portray aliens that can't properly be presented by a human actor with prosthetic makeup. Both books have a Puppeteer and a Kzin as central characters; I don't know that one would be harder than the other.
2013-08-03 20:10:06 : <Hippy> You're right, Lens. I should've said 'adaptable to a screenplay'
2013-08-03 20:10:09 : <fredskue_> How does the Ringworld/Wizard of Oz coralarry go? Is Dorothy Luis, or is she Teela?
2013-08-03 20:11:08 : <Sean> it really doesnt at all. dorothy would have to be louis but no character is seperated from the group for a long period of time to pick up a love interest.
2013-08-03 20:11:39 : <Larry> she's Teela.
2013-08-03 20:11:42 : <Hippy> Dorotthy=Louis, Nessus=Lion, Speaker=Scarccrow, Teela=Tinman
2013-08-03 20:12:11 : <Jim> Louis == Tinman
2013-08-03 20:12:23 : <Jim> Teela == Dorothy
2013-08-03 20:12:34 : <Hippy> Nope. Teela gets a heart when she gives Louis the tornquet
2013-08-03 20:12:35 : <Jim> Nessus == Lion
2013-08-03 20:12:36 : <Larry> And the puppeteer costume was harder to make and wear than the Kzin, when Kathy Sanders did them in 1984.
2013-08-03 20:13:31 : <fredskue_> Puppeteer is still harder, but flycycles help a lot
2013-08-03 20:13:32 : <Hippy> I haven't got the article easily to hand. Can't think who even wrote it, but it was pretty good
2013-08-03 20:13:42 : <Larry> Speaker = scarcrow. looking for wisdom, fear of being burned.
2013-08-03 20:14:37 : <Hippy> Prill=Toto :)
2013-08-03 20:14:54 : <fredskue_> So is Prill the good witch or the bad witch?
2013-08-03 20:15:07 : <Sean> she has skill so the bad witch
2013-08-03 20:15:18 : <Sean> bad girls always have more fun
2013-08-03 20:15:42 : <Lensman> Dorothy is Teela.
2013-08-03 20:15:51 : <Hippy> Louis
2013-08-03 20:16:20 : <Lensman> Well, okay. The analogies are not exact.
2013-08-03 20:16:35 : <Lensman> Prill = the Wizard.
2013-08-03 20:16:36 : <Hippy> No. Prill doesn't have a corollary
2013-08-03 20:16:48 : <Hippy> Fist of God is the Wizard
Who is who between RIngworld and Wizard of Oz.
2013-08-03 20:16:55 : <fredskue_> sunflowers are poppies?
2013-08-03 20:17:16 : <Sean> poppies with an attitude from hell.
2013-08-03 20:17:27 : <Hippy> Hmm...
2013-08-03 20:17:28 : <dmac44> lol
2013-08-03 20:17:35 : <fredskue_> they do go to sleep in the middle of a field of them in both stories
2013-08-03 20:17:43 : <Sean> true
2013-08-03 20:17:48 : <Lensman> I think Prill is a pretty good corollary for the Wizard. At first god-like and very frightning, then later just a friend with good intentions.
2013-08-03 20:17:54 : <Hippy> The zap gun is the poppies
2013-08-03 20:18:17 : <Lensman> It's Nessus who doesn't have a corollary.
2013-08-03 20:18:18 : <Hippy> Isnt' this fun, Larry? We're dissecting your work while its still alive :)
2013-08-03 20:18:20 : <Sean> so the sunflowers are the flying monkeys then
2013-08-03 20:18:56 : <Hippy> The police web is the flying monkeys
2013-08-03 20:19:02 : <Sean> i can see that.
2013-08-03 20:19:29 : <Hippy> Which would make Prill the WW of the West if this was a perect analogy, but Larry didn't do a SEARCH/REPLACE on Wizard of Oz
2013-08-03 20:19:30 : <fredskue_> if the police web is the flying monkeys, then prill is the bad witch
2013-08-03 20:19:53 : <Hippy> \\See above, Fred
2013-08-03 20:20:03 : <Sean> she is the bad witch. tried to get Louis to fall 90 feet by throwing him an orange
2013-08-03 20:20:06 : <Larry> I like Prill = wizard.
2013-08-03 20:20:13 : <fredskue_> so Dorothy has sex with the Wicked Witch and reforms her
2013-08-03 20:20:16 : <fredskue_> :\\
2013-08-03 20:20:34 : <Hippy> I'd subscribe to see that
2013-08-03 20:20:39 : <Lensman> There certainly are some similarities between Prill and the Wicked Witch. Prill was at first quite willing to watch our heroes die of thirst and starvation. As she had done to others in her trap.
2013-08-03 20:20:52 : <Jim> That is the version that I want to see.
2013-08-03 20:21:17 : <fredskue_> while the cowardly lion watches from hiding
2013-08-03 20:21:45 : <Hippy> Yeah, but Prill doesn't get them home. By the way, I'm analogising between Ringworld and the movie Wizard of Oz
2013-08-03 20:22:06 : <Hippy> Don't temember the book well at all
2013-08-03 20:22:11 : <fredskue_> yeah
2013-08-03 20:22:12 : <Sean> Never read the book
2013-08-03 20:22:16 : <Lensman> The Wizard doesn't get them home, either. Glinda helps Dorothy get home.
2013-08-03 20:22:32 : <fredskue_> well
2013-08-03 20:22:35 : <Lensman> I'm very familiar with both books.
2013-08-03 20:22:39 : <fredskue_> it's the Wizard's balloon
2013-08-03 20:22:46 : <fredskue_> :)
2013-08-03 20:23:06 : <fredskue_> so the Wizard's balloon is the hole in the top of Fist of God
2013-08-03 20:23:20 : <fredskue_> just to carry it to absurd extremes
2013-08-03 20:23:30 : <Hippy> Nope, the scrith repulsors in the Improbable
2013-08-03 20:23:33 : <fredskue_> and the ruby slippers are shadow square wire
2013-08-03 20:23:43 : <Lensman> The wizard doesn't take Dorothy home in his balloon. He tries to, but events intervene, and he admits "I don't know how it works!" so that wouldn't have worked anyway... movie version.
2013-08-03 20:23:47 : <fredskue_> "you had ti all along"
2013-08-03 20:24:16 : <Hippy> Well, that is in the book of Ringworld
2013-08-03 20:24:24 : <Lensman> The book has an extended anti-climax in which Dorothy and friends travel to Glinda's palace to be given the same advice.
2013-08-03 20:24:32 : <fredskue_> the mini series will be quite different
2013-08-03 20:24:37 : <Hippy> You can see how the SyFy version is going to tuen out, can't you?
2013-08-03 20:24:54 : <fredskue_> I can see how the Cinemax version would turn out
2013-08-03 20:25:25 : <Sean> yeah, the syfy version wont have the waterfall scene but cinemax would.
2013-08-03 20:25:55 : <Lensman> The interesting thing about the Oz movie is that it went thru several scripts and several script writers... and according to those in the know, improved every time. That's very very unusual.
2013-08-03 20:26:18 : <fredskue_> so beywolf schaeffer is Uncle Henry
2013-08-03 20:26:27 : <dmac44> Not if the fog was very, very thick.
2013-08-03 20:26:30 : <Hippy> Casablanca was the same. People could write in those days
2013-08-03 20:26:59 : <Lensman> Hippy: Indeed. Another movie where everything just came together and worked perfectly.
2013-08-03 20:27:27 : <Hippy> Hell, yes!
2013-08-03 20:27:34 : <fredskue_> with the exception of Speaker running past, the waterfall sequence may be the ONLY scene in Ringworld that you can shoot without FX, and/or on location
2013-08-03 20:28:09 : <Lensman> If you write a plot synopsis of "Casablanca", the story is nothing special. It was the execution and the perfect casting of every role, even the minor ones, plus a terrific screenplay with memorable lines, that made it great.
2013-08-03 20:28:36 : <Sean> the first meeting with the natives in the city.... but for the castle overhead.
2013-08-03 20:28:44 : <fredskue_> nope
2013-08-03 20:28:59 : <fredskue_> exterior stuff under the arch all has that noon lighting
2013-08-03 20:29:09 : <Lensman> Rw has the production problem of showing the Puppeteer homeworld, too. Wanna bet they'll cut that out?
2013-08-03 20:29:34 : <fredskue_> the leaf canopy over the waterfall lets you use earth standard lighting
2013-08-03 20:29:45 : <Sean> ok
2013-08-03 20:29:48 : <Lensman> So right there is a reason that RE would be better from a production POV. You don't have to show Hearth.
2013-08-03 20:29:48 : <fredskue_> it's a mini series. no reason to skip the fleet
2013-08-03 20:30:03 : <Hippy> Well, the shots appraoching the RW are all green-screen. My problem there is the scale. You can't make the RW look its right size unless the Liar is a tiny dot, and if the Liar is a spaceship size the RW is just a black, slightly featured wall
2013-08-03 20:31:08 : <fredskue_> almost every scene in Ringworld is green screen
2013-08-03 20:31:17 : <fredskue_> it's going to be like Sanctuary, if they do it right
hears his old teaxher saying 'You're talking like a producer, not a writer!'
2013-08-03 20:31:25 : <Lensman> There are scenes in Rw that wouldn't require FX for the background. Interior spaceship shots. Shots under cloudy skies. Shots at the waterfall and in the woods/forest.
2013-08-03 20:31:33 : <fredskue_> uh
2013-08-03 20:31:40 : <fredskue_> it's a glass spaceship
2013-08-03 20:31:49 : <fredskue_> that's pretty much greenscreen :)
2013-08-03 20:31:53 : <Sean> and under cloud they are flying
2013-08-03 20:32:06 : <Sean> and actually they are flying over cloud
2013-08-03 20:32:14 : <fredskue_> and since you can't get location clouds on demand, that's greensceen
2013-08-03 20:32:31 : <Hippy> So we get back to a soapie. Four people around a coffee table saying 'What a big Ringworld'
2013-08-03 20:32:33 : <Sean> over cloud you still have noon and the arch
2013-08-03 20:32:37 : <Jim> Some details, like the transparent spaceship, would be changed to save SFX money.
2013-08-03 20:32:46 : <Lensman> Ooops... Sean is correct, they are flying -over- the clouds. Two demerits for Lensman!
2013-08-03 20:32:56 : <Larry> The scale has defeated many. Friends who tried to computer-image the Ringworld ran out of bits. A friend who wanted to make a map used a marble for Earth, and got a sheet of paper half a mile long.
2013-08-03 20:32:57 : <fredskue_> You can shoot Louis house on a real yard, but that has both nessus and speaker in it
2013-08-03 20:34:27 : <fredskue_> okay, louis and prill kanoodling
2013-08-03 20:34:31 : <fredskue_> no fx
2013-08-03 20:34:48 : <Sean> well you only get the arch at night but i think you can still see a bit of the upward curve during the day. base of the arch.
2013-08-03 20:34:51 : <fredskue_> so the two scenes that don't need fx are the sex scens
2013-08-03 20:34:52 : <fredskue_> "D
2013-08-03 20:34:57 : <Sean> true
2013-08-03 20:35:13 : <Lensman> Yes, Fred, that's the production problem. Even in scenes where you don't need an FX background, most still have distinctly non-human characters in the foreground.
2013-08-03 20:35:34 : <fredskue_> hence the PRINCESS OF MARS solution
2013-08-03 20:35:43 : <Lensman> (That should have been an "As you know, Fred...")
2013-08-03 20:36:30 : <Lensman> I thought the Tarks (Green Martians) were very well done in "Princess of Mars", aside from the much-too-adorably-cute babies.
2013-08-03 20:36:40 : <fredskue_> uh
2013-08-03 20:36:42 : <fredskue_> say what?
2013-08-03 20:36:50 : <Hippy> The other question of scale is that you somehow have to enssure that Louis and the viewer don't guess the secret of Fist of God
2013-08-03 20:36:51 : <fredskue_> I suspect you're talking about JOHN CARTER
2013-08-03 20:36:57 : <fredskue_> not PRINCESS OF MARS
2013-08-03 20:37:01 : <Sean> i think lensman it talking john carter
2013-08-03 20:37:10 : <fredskue_> Oh, good point Sean
2013-08-03 20:37:21 : <Sean> isnt it tho... )
2013-08-03 20:37:22 : <Lensman> Yes, I'm talking about "John Carter". What are -you- talking about?
2013-08-03 20:37:29 : <fredskue_> PRINCESS OF MARS
2013-08-03 20:37:32 : <fredskue_> the Syfy version
2013-08-03 20:37:46 : <Larry> a man as old as Louis is goiing to need FX.
2013-08-03 20:37:48 : <fredskue_> that had a blonde white skinned non naked Dejah Thoris
2013-08-03 20:37:54 : <Lensman> Was that an adaptation of Burroughs' story?
2013-08-03 20:37:59 : <fredskue_> yes
2013-08-03 20:38:00 : <Hippy> He looks twenty, though
2013-08-03 20:38:01 : <andy> but otherwise actually mostly followed the plot of the original much closer than JOHN CARTER
2013-08-03 20:38:15 : <fredskue_> with Traci Lords as Dejah
2013-08-03 20:38:29 : <Lensman> A... BLONDE... Dejah Thoris?!?!? AAAARGH!!
2013-08-03 20:38:48 : <Sean> yeah... fred and i had this conversation the other day.
2013-08-03 20:38:50 : <fredskue_> http://roberthood.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/traci-lords01.jpg
2013-08-03 20:38:54 : <Lensman> Yeah, Louis looks 20, so what's the problem there?
hears 'Stella!' so clearrly Tennessee Williams is in the fridge
2013-08-03 20:39:12 : <Larry> just kidding. :)
2013-08-03 20:39:15 : <fredskue_> they hit her with red light; she's Pillsbury Dough Boy white in the film
2013-08-03 20:39:21 : <Lensman> Oh, I though you were kidding about Traci Lords. (Lord...)
2013-08-03 20:39:41 : <fredskue_> http://roberthood.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/princess01.jpg
2013-08-03 20:39:45 : <fredskue_> Nope
2013-08-03 20:41:58 : <Sean> so i see tarks in princess of mars are humans with chin horns.... great.
2013-08-03 20:42:21 : <Lensman> Don't see how keeping the secret of Fist-of-God from the viewer would be hard. Just never show it from directly overhead until the climax.
2013-08-03 20:42:42 : <fredskue_> http://yousaytoo-us.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/post_images/18/cb/44/3275012/remote_image_1331649919.jpg
2013-08-03 20:42:45 : <fredskue_> hah
2013-08-03 20:42:55 : <fredskue_> will we get Ringworld action figures?
2013-08-03 20:43:13 : <Lensman> I can't bear to look. Seriously.
2013-08-03 20:43:40 : <Sean> oh good lord.
2013-08-03 20:43:57 : <Sean> talking about the image
2013-08-03 20:44:26 : <fredskue_> um
2013-08-03 20:44:28 : <fredskue_> okay
2013-08-03 20:44:36 : <fredskue_> there's already a teela brown action figure
2013-08-03 20:44:41 : <fredskue_> no
2013-08-03 20:44:42 : <fredskue_> really
2013-08-03 20:44:45 : <fredskue_> I'm serious
2013-08-03 20:44:48 : <fredskue_> here it comes
2013-08-03 20:44:56 : <fredskue_> http://madhattersneverland.com/checklists/ActionFigures/MOTU_Checklist/images/teela_brown.jpg
2013-08-03 20:45:21 : <Lensman> An "action figure" of Teela Brown. Reminds me of the infamous librarian "Inaction figure". LOL
2013-08-03 20:46:44 : <Hippy> LOL, Lens
2013-08-03 20:47:11 : <Hippy> But will the audience believe that Louis didn't get it about Fist of God?
2013-08-03 20:47:12 : <Lensman> That's not Teela Brown. I think they just re-labeled a production overrun from "Xena: Warrior Princess".
2013-08-03 20:47:18 : <Jim> http://gottesman.pressible.org/files/2011/10/librarian-shush.gif
2013-08-03 20:47:24 : <NickE> looks like the Felicia Day Codex character from The Guild
2013-08-03 20:47:33 : <fredskue_> yeah, but it says it's teela brown
2013-08-03 20:47:33 : <NickE> sorta
2013-08-03 20:47:38 : <fredskue_> even in the file name
2013-08-03 20:48:07 : <Lensman> Hippy: Did you guess the secret of FoG before it was revealed in the book, the first time you read it? I, for one, did not.
2013-08-03 20:48:18 : <fredskue_> nor I
2013-08-03 20:48:25 : <Hippy> No, I didn't. Good point, Lens
2013-08-03 20:48:27 : <Jim> not me
2013-08-03 20:48:53 : <Sean> i did not either.
2013-08-03 20:49:10 : <NickE> me too. Great reveal!
2013-08-03 20:49:13 : <fredskue_> I got a lot of hits for a fashion model who's name is Teela
2013-08-03 20:49:18 : <fredskue_> http://images.fashionmodeldirectory.com/model/000000187383-teela_cull-fullsize.jpg
2013-08-03 20:49:50 : <Jim> Is Teela a blonde or a brunette?
2013-08-03 20:50:01 : <fredskue_> raven hair
2013-08-03 20:50:03 : <Larry> The movie viewer won't guess. Hey, the reviewers will blurt it out anyway.
2013-08-03 20:50:05 : <fredskue_> nordic pink skin
2013-08-03 20:50:06 : <Sean> and the clue was there... louis sitting in his cell and sees fist of god and thinks 'the peak must rise right out of the atmosphere
2013-08-03 20:50:19 : <fredskue_> almost as tall as Louis, who is more than 2 meters
2013-08-03 20:50:27 : <Hippy> Sadly true, Larry
2013-08-03 20:50:32 : <fredskue_> heart shaped face
2013-08-03 20:51:02 : <Hippy> Louis is more than two meters?????
2013-08-03 20:51:12 : <fredskue_> yes
2013-08-03 20:51:27 : <Sean> i dont think so.
2013-08-03 20:51:29 : <fredskue_> Speaker calls Louis 'barely 2 meters tall'
2013-08-03 20:51:30 : <Hippy> And from where do you get this info, Fred?
2013-08-03 20:51:47 : <Hippy> Well, that would make him less, wouldn't it?
2013-08-03 20:51:52 : <fredskue_> uh
2013-08-03 20:51:53 : <fredskue_> no
2013-08-03 20:51:57 : <fredskue_> it would make him more
2013-08-03 20:51:58 : <Hippy> I pictured him as Larry's height
2013-08-03 20:52:04 : <Larry> I probably didn't know what a meter was yet.
2013-08-03 20:52:09 : <Lensman> Teela's natural hair is apparently black and wavy, yes.
2013-08-03 20:52:09 : <Hippy> 'Barely' two meters
2013-08-03 20:52:24 : <fredskue_> that doesn't mean less
2013-08-03 20:52:28 : <fredskue_> it means 'not much more'
2013-08-03 20:52:47 : <Hippy> As in 'not much more than adequate'?
2013-08-03 20:52:58 : <Hippy> 'Barely' is not a metric term, you know
2013-08-03 20:53:19 : <Jim> 201 cm is not extraordinarly tall for modern European men.
2013-08-03 20:53:30 : <NickE> I always read barely as meaning not quite 2 meters (i.e average height)
2013-08-03 20:53:41 : <fredskue_> nope
2013-08-03 20:53:49 : <NickE> 6ft 6 is pretty tall Jim
2013-08-03 20:53:51 : <fredskue_> if you 'barely finish' you finish, right?
2013-08-03 20:53:58 : <Hippy> 2 meters is 6'7"
2013-08-03 20:54:10 : <fredskue_> 'barely finish' doesn't mean 'didn't quite finish'
2013-08-03 20:54:13 : <Lensman> Yeah, to me "barely" means she has to strain to stand that tall. So, not quite.
2013-08-03 20:54:17 : <NickE> well, barely 2 meters is 6ft 6 :)
2013-08-03 20:54:42 : <Hippy> Exactly, Nick
2013-08-03 20:54:53 : <fredskue_> lens, louis is barely 2 meters. Teela is almost as tall.
2013-08-03 20:54:58 : <Hippy> Small to Speaker at around 2.6m but still
2013-08-03 20:55:22 : <NickE> average ht more isn 28th Cen?
2013-08-03 20:55:36 : <Lensman> If Louis thinks of her as "barely" 2 meters, it's likely because the average height is taller than that. I would guess Larry was projecting the way the average height has increased over the past few centuries, with better diet becoming commonplace.
2013-08-03 20:55:44 : <fredskue_> Lens
2013-08-03 20:55:45 : <Hippy> That would be Fred's defense, yes
2013-08-03 20:55:46 : <fredskue_> just stop
2013-08-03 20:55:51 : <fredskue_> you misread it
2013-08-03 20:55:52 : <Jim> Michael Jordon is 6'6". Some Yugoslav players in the NBA are taller.
2013-08-03 20:55:56 : <fredskue_> that's NOT what anybody said
2013-08-03 20:56:16 : <fredskue_> nobody said anything about Louis thinking of Teela's height
2013-08-03 20:56:24 : <Lensman> Oh, Teela isn't as tall as that. Okay, that explains why I didn't remember it.
2013-08-03 20:56:28 : <fredskue_> nobody said anything about Teela being barely
2013-08-03 20:56:29 : <fredskue_> right
2013-08-03 20:56:30 : <fredskue_> :)
2013-08-03 20:56:52 : <Hippy> Larry, how tall is Louis? (Let's get some canon)
2013-08-03 20:57:14 : <Lensman> I think a lot of us think about Teela being bare-ly...
2013-08-03 20:57:41 : <Hippy> She's apparently too tall for my taste
2013-08-03 20:57:58 : <Lensman> http://news.larryniven.net/concordance/graphix/TeelaBrown_Arcass.jpg
2013-08-03 20:58:22 : <Larry> They're all tall in that age...but I didn't want him that tall. I misread 'METER. Make him any height you like.
2013-08-03 20:58:23 : <Lensman> Yummm...
2013-08-03 20:58:32 : <fredskue_> Hippy, it's in Ringworld. How much more Canon does it need to be?
2013-08-03 20:59:26 : <Hippy> Your interpretation of 'barely' is somewhat erroneous, Fred. Hence I was keen on a figure. Isn't there a reference in RE, lens?
2013-08-03 20:59:43 : <fredskue_> not that it matters; we don't see anybody standing next to anything we know the height of
2013-08-03 20:59:52 : <fredskue_> my interpretation of 'barely' is not erroneous
2013-08-03 20:59:54 : <Lensman> Hippy: Reference to Louis' height? I don't remember, sorry.
2013-08-03 21:00:41 : <Sean> makes no difference... that will be fodder for the syfy scriptwriters anyway. he will be the exact height of whoever they get to play him.
2013-08-03 21:00:47 : <Hippy> Well, Nick and I are the only English speakers here, so I suppose we can differ, Fred
2013-08-03 21:00:51 : <fredskue_> definition: "By a very little; hardly: could barely see the road in the fog."
2013-08-03 21:01:15 : <fredskue_> "only just; scarcely; no more than; almost not: He had barely enough money to pay for the car."
2013-08-03 21:01:26 : <Hippy> Ie, Fred, he could see the road a little more in the fog?
2013-08-03 21:01:43 : <fredskue_> he can see the road
2013-08-03 21:01:44 : <Hippy> Oh, 'no more than'? Interesting
2013-08-03 21:01:48 : <fredskue_> yep
2013-08-03 21:02:00 : <Hippy> 'No more than' two meters, then?
2013-08-03 21:02:09 : <fredskue_> not much more than
2013-08-03 21:02:21 : <fredskue_> 2.00001 meters
2013-08-03 21:02:21 : <fredskue_> :)
2013-08-03 21:02:23 : <Hippy> No, no more thjan
2013-08-03 21:02:38 : <Hippy> 1.99999 meters
2013-08-03 21:02:44 : <fredskue_> nope
2013-08-03 21:02:47 : <Larry> This has been fun, but I'm going to drop out now. Fare you all well.
2013-08-03 21:02:52 : <fredskue_> 2.00000 minimun
2013-08-03 21:02:54 : <Hippy> Sean, can the topic be 'English 101'?
2013-08-03 21:02:55 : <Lensman> And no specification of Louis' height in the Concordance entry, either. Shame, Lensman, shame! ;-)
2013-08-03 21:02:56 : <Sean> i dont blame you, larry
2013-08-03 21:02:56 : <fredskue_> bye larry
2013-08-03 21:03:00 : <Jim> Fare thee well
2013-08-03 21:03:03 : <fredskue_> thanks for dropping in
2013-08-03 21:03:08 : <Sean> i am about to slap them through the screen
2013-08-03 21:03:20 : <Hippy> 0.99999 goodbyes, Larry
2013-08-03 21:03:38 : <fredskue_> Sean, I apologize for correctly quoting Ringworld and correctly citing the dictionary
2013-08-03 21:03:39 : "Larry" left the channel.
2013-08-03 21:03:53 : <Sean> no worries, fred
2013-08-03 21:04:04 : <fredskue_> what's bothering me is, my mac says there are no files with RINGWORLD in the them name
2013-08-03 21:04:08 : <fredskue_> which is a problem
2013-08-03 21:04:17 : <Hippy> Barely any worries from me, too, Fred
2013-08-03 21:04:28 : <fredskue_> there should be pdfs of all the books, and I have the audio books too
2013-08-03 21:04:36 : <Lensman> Yeah, I don't blame Larry for not wanting to sit thru another argument over word definitions. That's when you know the conversation has lost any value.
2013-08-03 21:04:37 : <fredskue_> they've ... been redacted
2013-08-03 21:05:05 : <Hippy> Sorry, Lens
2013-08-03 21:05:48 : <Sean> yeah have to equate word definitions to the sexual habits of the common marmaset
2013-08-03 21:05:50 : <Lensman> The illegal text versions of /Ringworld/ have been deleted from the Internet? Well, hooray!
2013-08-03 21:06:14 : <Sean> hell with text versions.... the kindle uses mobi
2013-08-03 21:06:40 : <Hippy> The common marmoset, on the other hand...
2013-08-03 21:07:27 : <Jim> I learned today that the WV Department of Natural Resources is going to reintroduce Elk to the state.
2013-08-03 21:07:28 : <Sean> http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/topic+drift
2013-08-03 21:07:51 : <Sean> why... i think all of ours in kentucky have wandered over the hill
2013-08-03 21:08:20 : <Lensman> I think it's Speaker who says, in Rw: "Look at yourself, Louis. Barely two meters long, slender even for a human. Are you an explorer? Is Nessus?"
2013-08-03 21:09:06 : <Jim> Some of the Elk have crossed the Tug Fork river from KY to WV.
2013-08-03 21:09:20 : <Lensman> My theory is that the brontosaurus was short at the front, high in the middle, and short again at the tail.
2013-08-03 21:09:33 : <Jim> Classic
2013-08-03 21:09:37 : <NickE> heh
2013-08-03 21:10:34 : <Lensman> "That is the theory that I have, and which is mine, and what it is too."
2013-08-03 21:11:06 : <NickE> you forgot the brackets :-)
The common Marmoset: Here we go again ;)
2013-08-03 21:13:51 : <Hippy> As to its sexual habits, it marries young, has a couple of kids, then cruises the beats (or barely does) until it finds emotional fulfillment in a public lavatory.
2013-08-03 21:14:04 : <Hippy> So it's a kind of gay icon
2013-08-03 21:14:15 : <Sean> Jim, what are they proposing for license fees for elk tags?
2013-08-03 21:14:37 : <Sean> expensive here i think and i think you have to win a lottery thing to get one in the first place
2013-08-03 21:15:13 : <Lensman> Well, my paraphrase of Miss Ann Elk's theory on the Brontosaurus is just that-- a paraphrase, so not deserving of quote marks or "brackets".
2013-08-03 21:16:21 : <Lensman> But actually, Fred, in the context of that quote, I agree that "barely" in that case means "Only just" and not less than. While humans tend to exaggerate the height of short people, because it's seen as a social stigma, Speaker has no such prejudice against accurately describing the height of a human.
2013-08-03 21:16:22 : <Jim> WV is fourth in the waiting list to get elk from KY. I suspect that the license fees for elk will be similar to the license fees for bear, $162.
2013-08-03 21:16:58 : <Sean> great meat.
2013-08-03 21:17:13 : <Lensman> Context is everything.
2013-08-03 21:18:13 : <NickE> "by Anne Elk brackets Miss brackets" to quot
2013-08-03 21:18:34 : <Hippy> That's just over half what I paid to even be considred to stay here a bit longer. I should've paid to shoot elk
2013-08-03 21:18:52 : <Lensman> Oh, the "brackets" was spoken? LOL! I had forgotten that bit.
2013-08-03 21:18:53 : <Sean> if I see elk steak on the menu that is my choice every time. not a lot of places get it in.
2013-08-03 21:19:07 : <NickE> I bet its good
2013-08-03 21:19:17 : <Hippy> Ooh, I'll have to consider that
2013-08-03 21:19:35 : <Sean> its as lean as venison but has more of a beef flavor. REALLY good
2013-08-03 21:19:40 : <NickE> aye :-)
2013-08-03 21:20:02 : <NickE> souns excellent - love venison
2013-08-03 21:20:03 : <Hippy> Yep, it gets my vote
2013-08-03 21:20:09 : <Hippy> Me, too
2013-08-03 21:20:30 : <Sean> i have one package of venison burger left in the freezer.
2013-08-03 21:20:31 : <Lensman> The only time I've had venison it was in barbecue sauce, so I have no idea what it tastes like.
2013-08-03 21:20:35 : <Hippy> Ie, love venison
2013-08-03 21:21:14 : <Hippy> Sadly, much of it in Australia is now ground up for burgers and mixed with veal.
2013-08-03 21:21:28 : <Sean> several packages of steaks but I need to replace the deep freeze before I can get another deer. not enough cold storage.
2013-08-03 21:21:31 : <Hippy> What I want to try is impala
2013-08-03 21:21:40 : <Sean> the car?
2013-08-03 21:21:55 : <Hippy> Yes, the car. What? Is there some other kind?
2013-08-03 21:22:34 : <Lensman> The kind with horns. Oh, wait... cars got thost too. :)
2013-08-03 21:22:42 : <Sean> sorry... cracking jokes now after renting a few beers.
2013-08-03 21:22:57 : <Jim> Impala are from Africa, right?
2013-08-03 21:23:09 : <Hippy> And damn good ones, too, Sean. I barely laughed
2013-08-03 21:23:18 : <Sean> cool
2013-08-03 21:23:20 : <Hippy> Africa, yep
2013-08-03 21:24:15 : <Lensman> Yup. "The impala (Aepyceros melampus) is a medium-sized African antelope."
2013-08-03 21:24:45 : <Sean> wasnt aware of the creature. guess i don't watch animal planet enough.
2013-08-03 21:25:17 : <Hippy> Well, it's not as if everyone has their African antelopes down pat
2013-08-03 21:25:41 : <Hippy> For example, dik-dik on a stick. Yum yum
2013-08-03 21:25:53 : <Sean> sounds kinda vulgar
2013-08-03 21:26:17 : <fredskue_> Impalas were from the former city of Detroit
2013-08-03 21:26:26 : <Sean> heh
2013-08-03 21:27:20 : <fredskue_> Did you guys see that Seattle has language cops?
2013-08-03 21:27:27 : <Sean> no
2013-08-03 21:27:39 : <Lensman> And a Mustang is nuthin' but a Ford car. ;-)
2013-08-03 21:27:49 : <fredskue_> can't say 'dinosaur' any more, because you don't want to upset fundamentalist students during tests
2013-08-03 21:27:51 : <fredskue_> seriously
2013-08-03 21:27:58 : <fredskue_> can't say 'citizen'
2013-08-03 21:28:19 : <fredskue_> can't say 'brown bag'
2013-08-03 21:28:35 : <fredskue_> because in some way that's a derogatory term for black people
2013-08-03 21:28:57 : <Jim> Citizen offends illegal aliens.
2013-08-03 21:28:58 : <Lensman> I thought the fundies were the ones who think people rode dinos using saddles.
2013-08-03 21:28:59 : <fredskue_> you're now to say 'lunch and learn'
2013-08-03 21:29:13 : <Sean> brown bag to means that i am just not using my inch high private eye lunch box
2013-08-03 21:29:17 : <Sean> to me
2013-08-03 21:29:20 : <fredskue_> yeah, you have to say 'resident' and not citizen
2013-08-03 21:29:59 : <fredskue_> from the "Seattle Office for Civil Rights"
2013-08-03 21:30:35 : <fredskue_> the dinosaur memo is from their department of education
2013-08-03 21:30:41 : <Hippy> That is insane
2013-08-03 21:30:52 : <fredskue_> which makes me wonder if they've stopped teaching history or what
2013-08-03 21:31:10 : <Lensman> Reminds me of the city council member who was outraged by the use of the term "pot calling the kettle black" during a meeting. When it was explained to this black woman what the meaning was, and that it was in no way a racial slur, she refused to calm down and insisted it shouldn't be used because some people might -think- it was an ethnic slur.
2013-08-03 21:31:13 : <Hippy> I read somewhere wher esomeone got criticised for saying 'Native Canadian' Apparently they're all Americans
2013-08-03 21:31:41 : <fredskue_> Lensman, that's the arguement about 'brown bag'
2013-08-03 21:31:54 : <Jim> In Canada, the term is First Nations.
2013-08-03 21:31:55 : <Lensman> Sorry, dear... political correctness is not required by your ignorance.
2013-08-03 21:31:56 : <fredskue_> apparently there's no evidence that it ever WAS an ethnic slur
2013-08-03 21:32:13 : <fredskue_> but some idiot in the civil rights office thought somebody might think it was
2013-08-03 21:32:19 : <Hippy> Or that poor bloke at the White - sorry, NordeAmericano - House who used 'niggardly' in a sentence
2013-08-03 21:32:34 : <Sean> to my knowledge, brown bag just means lunch from home
2013-08-03 21:32:36 : <fredskue_> oh, seattle says you can't say 'birthday' any more
2013-08-03 21:32:40 : <fredskue_> offends the JWs
2013-08-03 21:32:46 : <fredskue_> and Halloween is right out
2013-08-03 21:33:09 : <Hippy> It means a bribe in Australia
2013-08-03 21:33:29 : <Hippy> 'Brown bag' does
2013-08-03 21:33:30 : <Sean> interesting
2013-08-03 21:33:53 : <fredskue_> "For a lot of particularly African-American community members, the phrase brown bag does bring up associations with the past when a brown bag was actually used, I understand, to determine if people's skin color was light enough to allow admission to an event or to come into a party that was being held in a private home"
2013-08-03 21:33:58 : <Hippy> Ie, brown paper bag wher there is cash in it
2013-08-03 21:34:31 : <Sean> i have never heard it used in that context ever, fred
2013-08-03 21:34:34 : <Hippy> I still love 'hugger' vs 'stubby holder'. Who'd've thought we would come up with the prosaic term?
2013-08-03 21:35:03 : <fredskue_> Sean, I don't think anybody outside this idiot in the seattle civil rights office has
2013-08-03 21:35:33 : <Sean> i understand... hell, by end of summer I am darker than a brown paper bag
2013-08-03 21:35:34 : <fredskue_> plus - who the hell every had doorman checking for race at the door of a party in a private home???
2013-08-03 21:36:02 : <Sean> i agree
2013-08-03 21:36:27 : <Hippy> If they wre all slaves this wouldn't be a problem :)
2013-08-03 21:37:59 : <Lensman> Never heard of that "brown bag" rule. But it doesn't come up on Snopes.com, so maybe it's true.
2013-08-03 21:38:03 : <Hippy> Too soon?
2013-08-03 21:38:37 : <Sean> i will take that a step further and say they should be incredibly thankful that their ancestors were brought over here. Have your read about the atrocities that happen in every african nation. today they are much better off here.
2013-08-03 21:38:47 : <Hippy> I'm told that Seattle has a huge number of immigrants, though. How do they do it?
2013-08-03 21:39:11 : <Hippy> You're right there.
2013-08-03 21:39:18 : <Lensman> "tree stubby holder" instead of "treehugger"? Sorry, doesn't work for me.
2013-08-03 21:39:32 : <Hippy> And what the hell, my ancestors were almost certainly slaves, at least some of them
2013-08-03 21:40:06 : <Sean> your ancestors were probably taken straight to botany bay, hippy. I have met you. ;)
2013-08-03 21:40:26 : <fredskue_> I bet that next, Seattle starts teaching that Neil Armstrong landed on Mars
2013-08-03 21:40:42 : <Sean> oh those moon landings were faked
2013-08-03 21:41:03 : <Lensman> You are suggesting that descendents of African slaves should be glad their ancestors were sold into slavery? Okay... I think it's time for me to leave, because this sounds even less defensible than the gun nuts' arguments that drove everyone away last month.
2013-08-03 21:41:04 : <Hippy> No, Port Arthur in Tasmania. That at least we can verify on Dad's side :)
2013-08-03 21:41:14 : <fredskue_> Um
2013-08-03 21:41:22 : <fredskue_> nobody drove anybody away but you Lensman
2013-08-03 21:41:25 : <Sean> 800,000 contractors can keep a secret for decades
2013-08-03 21:41:31 : <Jim> Don't forget the television studio that was rocketed to the moon to simulate the low gee.
2013-08-03 21:41:53 : <Sean> no, i am saying that they should be happy to be here and not in africa regardless of how they arrived.
2013-08-03 21:42:21 : <fredskue_> Serious questions, are there nice places in Africa?
2013-08-03 21:42:35 : <Lensman> Jim: LOL! Yeah, I still suspect that was a parody of conspiracy theories. The moon landing was faked by filming it... on the moon.
2013-08-03 21:42:35 : <fredskue_> you only ever see pics of dirty marketplaces
2013-08-03 21:43:10 : <Hippy> Some parts of South Africa are very nice and still expensive. Stick to the West Coatt, though
2013-08-03 21:43:23 : <Hippy> White people are treated well in Botswana, too
2013-08-03 21:43:36 : <Sean> and the only indefensible 'gun nut' arguments were yours, Lensman
2013-08-03 21:43:42 : <Hippy> And Mozambique, but they speak Portuguese there
2013-08-03 21:43:43 : <fredskue_> JINX
2013-08-03 21:43:47 : <fredskue_> Sean owes me a soda
2013-08-03 21:44:15 : <Sean> what flavor?
2013-08-03 21:44:29 : <Jim> Recently, it snowed in Johannesberg.
2013-08-03 21:44:31 : <Lensman> Interesting to read about Madagascar in the colonial era, where blacks enslaved whites.
2013-08-03 21:45:20 : <Hippy> Not surprising, Lens
2013-08-03 21:45:35 : <Hippy> Zimbabwe is close to doing that
2013-08-03 21:45:58 : <Sean> in the history of the world, i think i can safely say that everybody has enslaved everybody else at one time or another.
2013-08-03 21:46:44 : <Hippy> Yep
2013-08-03 21:47:17 : <Hippy> On my mother's side, apparently there is a freed (manumitted) American slave. The research continues
2013-08-03 21:48:36 : <Sean> interesting, hippy. I need to sit down with dad and ask those types of questions.
2013-08-03 21:49:45 : <Hippy> Do it! My sister asked my grandfather too late to get all the details
2013-08-03 21:49:55 : <fredskue_> My dad got interested in that stuff when he got older, but it was before you could find out so much online
2013-08-03 21:50:01 : <Hippy> Of course, websites fill in a lot nowadays.
2013-08-03 21:50:11 : <Sean> i will
2013-08-03 21:50:19 : <fredskue_> we did find the Ellis Island record of my father's mother entering the country online last week
2013-08-03 21:50:27 : <fredskue_> they have all the log books scanned
2013-08-03 21:50:27 : <Hippy> Nick, can you nip down to London and do about 1000 hours research for me?
2013-08-03 21:50:47 : <Sean> afk, phone
2013-08-03 21:51:06 : <fredskue_> but ancestry.com wants to convert me to mormonism, so I refuse to enlist :)
2013-08-03 21:51:09 : <dmac44> See you all next month.
2013-08-03 21:51:12 : <Hippy> oldailey.org has the scan of my ancestor's conviction and sentencing
2013-08-03 21:51:22 : "dmac44" left the channel.
2013-08-03 21:51:50 : <Hippy> Oops. OldBailey.org
2013-08-03 21:52:30 : <Hippy> I didn't know they tried to convert. Interesting
2013-08-03 21:52:45 : <Hippy> And a tad creepy, like all evangelism
2013-08-03 21:53:53 : <Lensman> Hadn't heard that about ancestry.com.
2013-08-03 21:53:55 : <fredskue_> I was kidding, but I can't imagine that a Mormon genealogy site isn't going to use the information against me somehow at some point
2013-08-03 21:54:28 : <fredskue_> last month I had a mormon insurance agent trying to give me a discount if I'd let missionaires live in Mom's house
2013-08-03 21:54:57 : <Lensman> They'll decide you're a Jew and, when you're gone, form a prayer group to pray you out of hell into purgatory. Even if you ask them not to.
2013-08-03 21:55:05 : <NickE> heh sorry, was eleswhere
2013-08-03 21:55:31 : <fredskue_> I've got cousins that converted, Lens. Yes, they'll baptize me in absentia, if they haven't already.
2013-08-03 21:55:58 : <Hippy> Well, every little bit helps
2013-08-03 21:56:24 : <fredskue_> You can officially request them not to, like I believe they'll honor that, especially once I'm dead
2013-08-03 21:56:29 : <Hippy> Hell might have the odd Niven character in it, but I'd soonner avoid it
2013-08-03 21:56:55 : <fredskue_> I don't think being mormon gets you to skip the inferno :)
2013-08-03 21:57:08 : <fredskue_> just gets you into the circle of endless polygamy and no beer
2013-08-03 21:57:33 : <Hippy> I must ask next month about the character in Inferno who speaks Newspeak from '1984'. that is a very interesting bit
2013-08-03 21:57:59 : <Lensman> Hippy: Yeah, I admit that I think you have to go pretty far out of your way to be outraged that someone is praying for your soul, even if it's another religion. They do mean well. So I think that's something that should only offend the easily offended.
2013-08-03 21:58:06 : <Hippy> Now there's a quandary, Fred
2013-08-03 21:58:40 : <Hippy> Well, Lens, God help Seattle
2013-08-03 21:59:03 : <Lensman> In heaven there is no beer / That's why they drink it here / And when we're gone up there / Our friends will be drinking all the beer!
2013-08-03 21:59:37 : <Hippy> Makes me wonder who the oldest of us is...
2013-08-03 22:00:01 : <Jim> Larry
2013-08-03 22:00:17 : <Lensman> Fred: Maybe. I've seen claims that they continue even after promising not to, but perhaps that was the exception and not the rule.
2013-08-03 22:00:39 : <fredskue_> hard to police
2013-08-03 22:00:57 : <Jim> Anne Frank has been baptized several times after her death.
2013-08-03 22:01:16 : <fredskue_> Interesting. Does she have living relatives?
2013-08-03 22:01:38 : <Jim> No direct descendants.
2013-08-03 22:02:00 : <fredskue_> no, but distant cousins will trigger it
2013-08-03 22:02:15 : <fredskue_> that's what all the genealogy is for
2013-08-03 22:02:26 : <Jim> Yup
AFK for a post-mortem baptised beer
2013-08-03 22:03:15 : <fredskue_> Anne Frank had a living first cousin as of 2008
2013-08-03 22:03:30 : <fredskue_> "last living"
2013-08-03 22:04:12 : <fredskue_> lol
2013-08-03 22:04:25 : <fredskue_> she seems to have multiple "last living relatives"
2013-08-03 22:04:38 : <fredskue_> guy in Switzerland, gal in Texas ...
2013-08-03 22:05:25 : <Lensman> Or maybe that's multiple people claiming to be her last living relative. Geneology in times past were often works of fiction. Perhaps they still are in some cases.
2013-08-03 22:05:31 : <fredskue_> the one in TX has kids and grandkids, so, if she's legit, there are lots of relatives
2013-08-03 22:05:58 : <fredskue_> Lens, might also be the reporters, trying to spice up the story
2013-08-03 22:06:42 : <fredskue_> LOL!!!!
2013-08-03 22:07:01 : <fredskue_> her 'last living relative' in Switzerland has children!!!!
2013-08-03 22:07:04 : <Hippy> She might be related to Anne's captors by marriage or something
2013-08-03 22:07:29 : <Hippy> I'm Anne Frank and so is my wife!
2013-08-03 22:07:54 : <Jim> Well, go to Utah and get baptized!
2013-08-03 22:07:57 : <fredskue_> okay
2013-08-03 22:08:13 : <fredskue_> apparently 'second cousins' are not relatives for this purpose or something
2013-08-03 22:08:18 : <fredskue_> that's ... bizarre
2013-08-03 22:08:18 : <Hippy> I've spent one night in Satl Lake City, so that's probably enough
2013-08-03 22:08:40 : <Jim> The ultimate in gay marriage, marry one's self.
2013-08-03 22:08:45 : <fredskue_> heh
2013-08-03 22:09:01 : <Lensman> "I'm her last living relative. Well, if you don't count my three brothers and sisters, our dozen children, and our four dozen grandchildren."
2013-08-03 22:09:09 : <fredskue_> yep
2013-08-03 22:09:15 : <Hippy> The Nazi method was to see if you could name with confidence all eight of your great-grandparents, so second cousin would be as close as you could get under their rules
2013-08-03 22:10:46 : <Hippy> So if noen of those eight were Jews, you were okay
2013-08-03 22:10:49 : <Lensman> Great-grandparents nothing. My maternal grandmother was married four times (multiply widowed, never divorced) and I still get confused about who was my grandpa on that side.
2013-08-03 22:11:07 : <Hippy> Ie, you're allowed a maximum (barely) 12.5% Jew
2013-08-03 22:11:18 : <fredskue_> I keep finding retarded cousins, which makes me worry about my bloodline
2013-08-03 22:11:36 : <Hippy> Bit of a black widow, Lens
2013-08-03 22:13:07 : <fredskue_> I have a retarded cousin 'Gerhaus' in Michigan. Who the Hell names their kid 'Gerhaus' in Michigan? His brothers and sisters all have names like 'John' and 'Lois'
2013-08-03 22:13:19 : <Lensman> My father was interested in geneology, so I know that one of my great^4 grandmothers was a full blood Cherokee, but otherwise so far as I know all my ancestors are descendents of western Europeans. Sad to have such an uninteresting blooline.
2013-08-03 22:13:26 : <Lensman> ...bloodline.
2013-08-03 22:14:23 : <fredskue_> Okay, next contentious topic
2013-08-03 22:14:34 : <fredskue_> Did you see that this week YALE basically okayed rape?
2013-08-03 22:14:56 : <fredskue_> they let one rapist go because he didn't have an orgasm!
2013-08-03 22:15:00 : <fredskue_> no orgasm, no rape
2013-08-03 22:15:55 : <fredskue_> and in general the punishment is a note in your permanent file
2013-08-03 22:16:06 : <fredskue_> it's now called "non consensual sex"
2013-08-03 22:16:38 : <Lensman> Hippy: Well, one of 'em died when the radio tower he was working on collapsed. Kinda hard to blame Grandma on that. Another, a German immigrant, disappeared in mysterious circumstances, and all the police found was a bloody raincoat. There was speculation he was a German spy, but that seems rather romantic.
2013-08-03 22:16:59 : <fredskue_> ack
2013-08-03 22:17:28 : <fredskue_> My dad's brother just vanished
2013-08-03 22:17:37 : <fredskue_> one year you don't get a Xmas card ...
2013-08-03 22:17:45 : <fredskue_> and nobody ever hears anything again
2013-08-03 22:18:05 : <Hippy> They might be the same man, Fred
2013-08-03 22:18:10 : <fredskue_> lol
2013-08-03 22:18:18 : <fredskue_> well, he vanished about 5 years ago
2013-08-03 22:18:25 : <fredskue_> I don't think he was a german spy
2013-08-03 22:18:48 : <Hippy> Of course not, otherwise what Kind of a spy would he be?
2013-08-03 22:18:49 : <fredskue_> he *had* changed his name to make it non german though
2013-08-03 22:18:56 : <fredskue_> maybe he was hiding
2013-08-03 22:19:31 : <fredskue_> he ... was probably about 20 at the onset of WW2
2013-08-03 22:19:53 : <Hippy> Well, it all fits
2013-08-03 22:20:59 : <fredskue_> seriously, he was like 60, and changed his name to 'Kent' because he was tired of spelling 'Kuentz'
2013-08-03 22:21:20 : <fredskue_> :\\
2013-08-03 22:21:44 : <Hippy> That is a common thing.
2013-08-03 22:21:55 : <fredskue_> really?
2013-08-03 22:21:59 : <Hippy> Look at Sean Stoltzpfrcwkyski, for example
2013-08-03 22:22:47 : <Hippy> Also, of course , 'Kuentz' is so easily pronounced 'Cunts'
2013-08-03 22:22:49 : <fredskue_> My ex had a name like that, and dumped me for a guy named 'alexander' in part because, she says, she can just mumble the name and people get it
2013-08-03 22:22:55 : <fredskue_> yes
2013-08-03 22:22:56 : <Hippy> As you have experenced
2013-08-03 22:23:04 : <fredskue_> it's *always* cunts on a PA system
2013-08-03 22:23:06 : <fredskue_> *always*
2013-08-03 22:23:07 : <Lensman> "Once across the mountains, the Boggies lost no time in establishing themselves. They shortened their names and elbowed their way into all the country clubs, dropping their old language and customs like a live grenade." --/Bored of the Rings/
2013-08-03 22:23:59 : <Hippy> Apt, Lens, apt!
2013-08-03 22:24:10 : <Lensman> So how is is supposed to be pronounced? "Koontz"?
2013-08-03 22:24:45 : <Hippy> One of the good things about being here is no-one wants to add an exra 'e' to Rout to make it be 'Route' because you pronoujnce the two words the same way
2013-08-03 22:24:53 : <fredskue_> When asked, I phoentically spell it Koonts
2013-08-03 22:25:07 : <fredskue_> lest you make a bumblebee noise at the end
2013-08-03 22:25:49 : <Lensman> LOL! "Bumblebee noise".
2013-08-03 22:25:53 : <fredskue_> :)
2013-08-03 22:26:29 : <Hippy> Lens, you could change 'Sooby' to 'Soaby' and say it was Old Low German in origin
2013-08-03 22:26:44 : <fredskue_> Interesting Hippy. Here, Rout is always Rout, but Route can be said as Rout or Route
2013-08-03 22:27:11 : <Hippy> I like it, Fred
2013-08-03 22:27:23 : <Hippy> I presume Fred is pronounced 'Fred'
2013-08-03 22:27:34 : <Lensman> If I changed my name it would be to "Aadams" because I'm so tired of being near the end of the alphabet when you have to wait in line in alphabetical order.
2013-08-03 22:27:35 : <fredskue_> for some reason that I've never understood
2013-08-03 22:27:37 : <Hippy> Maybe I should think 'Far-eed'
2013-08-03 22:27:49 : <fredskue_> multiple friends that have never met call me Frode
2013-08-03 22:28:31 : <fredskue_> but anybody I say my name to on the phone thinks I said 'Rick'
snorts in alughing manner
2013-08-03 22:28:44 : <Lensman> The not-quite-a-reference to Charles Addams would be just icing on the cake.
2013-08-03 22:29:15 : <fredskue_> You can claim to be a direct descendant of John Quincy Adams
2013-08-03 22:29:26 : <fredskue_> like every person of color named Adams seems to
2013-08-03 22:29:36 : <fredskue_> he must have been *busy*
2013-08-03 22:29:47 : <Hippy> Indeed, with one 'a' added every generation, Mr Aaaaaaaaaadams
2013-08-03 22:30:19 : <Lensman> LOL!
2013-08-03 22:30:47 : <Hippy> I often wonder where Bill Cosby got his name. Like, who was Cosby? A Danish name, like Lens's
2013-08-03 22:31:17 : <Lensman> Hippy, that reminds me of the NYC judge who refused some guy's request to change his name to.. don't remember exactly, but something like Aaaabb because he wanted to be first in the NYC phone book.
2013-08-03 22:31:58 : <fredskue_> yeah
2013-08-03 22:31:58 : <Hippy> They have a specific tax law in Sweden which prevents such weirdo names
2013-08-03 22:32:06 : <Lensman> Is Aadam's Danish? "Sooby" is apparently English, tho rare.
2013-08-03 22:32:07 : <fredskue_> there were court cases on AAAAAA for businesses
2013-08-03 22:32:13 : <Hippy> Why a tax law, though? Still, there tt is
2013-08-03 22:32:24 : <fredskue_> I think you're allowed to have 3 As at most
2013-08-03 22:32:45 : <Hippy> 'Sooby' would be dervied from a Danish, ie Danelaw, place name, since 'by' is the Danish word for 'town'
2013-08-03 22:32:52 : <Hippy> Old Norse, I mean
2013-08-03 22:33:00 : <fredskue_> Bill Cosby's dad is Bill Cosby Sr, but I can't find out any more about him
2013-08-03 22:33:29 : <Hippy> That's because one generation earlier, he wasn't black
2013-08-03 22:33:39 : <fredskue_> trying to find a pic
2013-08-03 22:33:45 : <fredskue_> he was in the US navy
2013-08-03 22:34:23 : <Lensman> One pre-Internet era geneology research company told Dad that "Sooby" might be derived from "Slougherby", but so far as I know that's pure speculation. There are Soobys still living in England, but as I said it's a rare name. So far as I know, every American Sooby is directly related to me.
2013-08-03 22:34:34 : <Hippy> Sooby might be a place name, Lens. Find an online gazetteer of Britain
2013-08-03 22:35:52 : <fredskue_> I think all the American Kuentzes (not like there are many) are related to me
2013-08-03 22:36:16 : <fredskue_> I found a few on Facebook, and they all had relative in Alsace about the time mine left
2013-08-03 22:36:22 : <Hippy> Rarer than Rout, then. There is one family not related to me in Australia, descending from a settler in New South Wales. Amazingly, both families produced a 'Geoffrey Rout' in 1939 who ended up living two miles from each other and going to the same doctor
2013-08-03 22:36:26 : <Lensman> The name comes up in historical records for Calvinists living near the town from whence the Pilgrims set forth to journey on the Mayflower. Might not mean they were actually Calvinists, tho. Just in the same area.
2013-08-03 22:36:42 : "Akiraa" left the channel.
2013-08-03 22:37:34 : <Hippy> Plymouth? That makes sense.
2013-08-03 22:37:57 : <Hippy> I can see the town's spelling being 'Sooby' at first and then altered later
2013-08-03 22:37:58 : <Lensman> The Kansas branch of the Soobys has mostly died out... and I have no brothers or children. The Pennsylvania branch is still growing.
2013-08-03 22:38:25 : <Hippy> Well, a round of applause for Pennsylvania
2013-08-03 22:38:39 : <fredskue_> The Texas Kuentzes seem to be mostly female
2013-08-03 22:38:45 : <Lensman> Considering the amount of teasing I received about my name as a kid, I'm not unhappy that name is not being passed on.
2013-08-03 22:38:55 : <fredskue_> there's one young male but all I know is he listens to Kayne West a lot
2013-08-03 22:39:37 : <fredskue_> What kind of teasing did you get for 'Sooby'?
2013-08-03 22:39:46 : <Hippy> They would tease you about Sooby? How?
2013-08-03 22:39:54 : <fredskue_> Or, what Hippy said
2013-08-03 22:40:12 : <fredskue_> (Hippy owes me a soda, too)
2013-08-03 22:40:15 : <Lensman> Now, can you say "Kuentzes" without making a Bumblebee noise? :)
2013-08-03 22:40:42 : <Hippy> I'll post it, Fahreed
2013-08-03 22:40:45 : <fredskue_> I would pronounce the Z and the S the same way :)
2013-08-03 22:41:03 : <Lensman> At least I was in high school when "Scooby-Doo" came on TV, so I mostly escaped that one.
2013-08-03 22:41:03 : <fredskue_> Coont-says
2013-08-03 22:41:24 : <Lensman> As far as the ones I did get hit with... I'm certainly not going to repeat them.
2013-08-03 22:41:30 : <fredskue_> Yes, that was my first thought, but I figured you were too old to get Sooby Dooby Doo
2013-08-03 22:41:37 : <fredskue_> except as a Sinatra ref
2013-08-03 22:41:52 : <Hippy> I would never have thought of that
2013-08-03 22:41:59 : <Lensman> My dad was old enough to get "Soupy Sales", altho why that would annoy him I'm not sure.
2013-08-03 22:42:11 : <fredskue_> well
2013-08-03 22:42:18 : <fredskue_> it was generally followed by a cream pie
2013-08-03 22:42:47 : <NickE> gotta bail - fallingsleep
2013-08-03 22:42:49 : <Hippy> 'Heh', as Nick would say
2013-08-03 22:42:52 : <NickE> nir
2013-08-03 22:43:00 : <fredskue_> nick at night
2013-08-03 22:43:03 : <NickE> nite even
2013-08-03 22:43:06 : <Hippy> 'Bye, Nick
2013-08-03 22:43:15 : <Lensman> "Scooby-Doo" would have been pretty mild compared to the nicknames I was saddled with, anyway. Children can be very cruel.
2013-08-03 22:43:16 : "NickE" left the channel.
2013-08-03 22:43:43 : <fredskue_> now we're going to spend the next month trying to guess
2013-08-03 22:44:00 : <Hippy> Well, it's only when you kidnap them chain them to a wall, and blowtorch their amrmpits that they know they're being cruel.
2013-08-03 22:44:04 : <Hippy> But I digress
2013-08-03 22:44:10 : <Lensman> Well, you're SF fans... you're supposed to be able to use your imaginations! :)
2013-08-03 22:44:24 : <fredskue_> Mark will come up with some Cockney rhyming slang that won't make any sense
2013-08-03 22:46:01 : <Lensman> Yeah, I always had to have the Cockney rhyming slang explained to me. "Raspberry" for a Bronx cheer? What? Oh, raspberry -tart- rhymes with...
2013-08-03 22:46:10 : <Hippy> Anyway, gentlemen, I'm out of satisfying lagers for the evening, so I shall bid you all a fond adieu and see you next month from wherever the USCIS says I have to go
2013-08-03 22:46:32 : <fredskue_> by hippy!
2013-08-03 22:46:48 : <Jim> bye
2013-08-03 22:46:49 : <Hippy> 'By the power of Hippy' that should be
2013-08-03 22:46:52 : <Lensman> Fare thee well, Hippy. Until next month!
2013-08-03 22:47:02 : <Hippy> Indeed, Lens
2013-08-03 22:47:03 : <fredskue_> soup is loop the loop
2013-08-03 22:47:10 : <Hippy> Bye, Jim. Enjoy the elk!
2013-08-03 22:47:46 : <Hippy> Sean, I shall remind you about the server config
2013-08-03 22:47:59 : <fredskue_> in barely 2 days
2013-08-03 22:48:09 : <Hippy> Andy, sorry I havent' been over for a snifter. Can't do anything until we sort out this immigration thing
2013-08-03 22:48:24 : <Hippy> Ha! Fred
2013-08-03 22:48:53 : "Hippy" left the channel.
2013-08-03 22:52:29 : <fredskue_> "Chances are that behind every great relationship, there's e-harmony dot com"
2013-08-03 22:52:51 : <fredskue_> whatever happened to the days when you weren't allowed to blatantly lie in a TV commercial?
2013-08-03 22:53:30 : <Jim> I miss those days.
2013-08-03 22:53:58 : <fredskue_> I mean, "every great relationship of the last decade that was arranged by a dating service" ... at least that would just be puffery
2013-08-03 23:07:04 : <Jim> gotta go, bye
2013-08-03 23:07:28 : "Jim" left the channel.
2013-08-03 23:44:07 : "CrazyEddy" joined the channel.