Chat Log: November 5th, 2011

Chat: November 5th, 2011

[10:51] Akiraa has joined #knownspace
[12:07] sean has joined #knownspace
[12:35] sean has joined #knownspace
[13:51] NickE has joined #knownspace
[13:54] #knownspace> NickE: afk
[14:02] #knownspace> SeanS: .weather 40601
[14:02] #knownspace> Outsider: Clear ☼, 57.2℉ (14℃), 30.25in (1021mb), Gentle breeze 7kt (↑) - KLOU 17:53Z
[14:10] Dan has joined #knownspace
[14:15] #knownspace> SeanS: hey Dan
[14:15] #knownspace> Dan: Hiya, Sean!
[14:16] #knownspace> SeanS: whatcha up to?
[14:16] #knownspace> SeanS: nick is afk
[14:17] #knownspace> Dan: Just barely out of bed. Nodded off in my chair after I got home from work last night, then slept past 1 PM after finally dragging myself to bed around midnight.
[14:17] #knownspace> Dan: Work was fairly easy this past week, but I didn't sleep well. I guess I made up for it last night.
[14:17] #knownspace> SeanS: heh
[14:18] #knownspace> SeanS: nice editorial btw
[14:18] #knownspace> Dan: Thanks! Need to think up a new one and get it written this weekend. Most of the November issue is finished already.
[14:18] #knownspace> SeanS: stayed up at Julie's last night.
[14:20] #knownspace> SeanS: Had to fix the mailbox today. it has been tied (with shoestrings) to a piece of metal welded to a horizontal pipe since I have owned the house.
[14:20] #knownspace> Dan: LOL!
[14:20] #knownspace> SeanS: metal piece finally rusted off of the pipe so i had to improvise.
[14:21] #knownspace> Dan: I need to replace mine, & the post it's mounted to, before too long.
[14:21] #knownspace> SeanS: used giant wire ties to affix a piece of wood to the pipe and screwed the mailbox down. much more stable.
[14:21] #knownspace> SeanS: previous owner of the property was an accomplished welder. I am not.
[14:21] #knownspace> Dan: Me neither. I can weld, just not very well.
[14:22] #knownspace> SeanS: I can solder but have never welded
[14:24] #knownspace> SeanS: Thinking about asking Julie for a Kindle for Christmas
[14:26] #knownspace> Dan: I'm undecided about those. One would be nice for work, etc. but I dislike the idea that Amazon could reach into it an delete anything they decided I wasn't allowed to have anu more.
[14:30] #knownspace> SeanS: I havent seen anything about that. I did read that you can do loans from the library and something like a kindle user group but it looked more like those formats deleted themselves after the load period.
[14:31] #knownspace> SeanS: Neil has one. I can ask him.
[14:33] #knownspace> Dan: Yeah. My thing is that I've got hundreds of e-books that I got as free bonus gifts when I bought a dozen public domain e-book CDs. Not sure if all of them are entirely leagal. I'd rather not have Amazon poking around in my files to see what I've bought from them and what I bought elsewhere, then deciding I was a criminal.
[14:35] #knownspace> SeanS: I would not have an amazon account so dont see how they could have access.
[14:35] #knownspace> Akiraa: Why is it said our planet still has 20% of the original heat of formation? The interior is heated by radioactive decay, without which it would have solidified in just a few million years. The primordial heat (of accretion) is basically gone.
[14:37] #knownspace> NickE: back. evenin all
[14:38] #knownspace> Akiraa: hello NickE
[14:38] #knownspace> Akiraa: is this the monthly Larry chat?
[14:38] #knownspace> Dan: Akiraa, maybe one of our Physicists can answer that. It does sound odd when put into words, though.
[14:38] #knownspace> NickE: should be
[14:38] #knownspace> SeanS: the official start time is in about 22 minutes.
[14:39] #knownspace> Akiraa: I was also wondering if stars with greater metallicity would also generate planets with a greater proportion of radioactive elements
[14:39] #knownspace> Akiraa: leading to potentially greater internal heat, greater chance of plate tectonics or active geology, volcanism etc...
[14:39] Hippy has joined #knownspace
[14:39] #knownspace> Akiraa: or the possibility of warm interiors in smaller planets
[14:40] #knownspace> NickE: Hi Hippy
[14:40] #knownspace> Akiraa: so more chances for life to occur
[14:40] #knownspace> Hippy: Hi, Nick
[14:40] Fred_via_Flash has joined #knownspace
[14:40] #knownspace> NickE: Hi Fred
[14:40] #knownspace> Hippy: Hi, Fred
[14:40] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: Greetings Legal Entities
[14:40] #knownspace> Hippy: Looks like we're all getting in early, or I've got the timezones wrong again
[14:41] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: I failed to connect via the Java link on the site
[14:41] #knownspace> NickE: havent used that in a while
[14:41] #knownspace> Hippy: Welll, good 'ol MIRC seems stable today
[14:41] #knownspace> NickE: eris works pretty well
[14:41] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: Yeah, I came in via eris
[14:41] #knownspace> Hippy: So theree'll be no need of duct tape this session
[14:41] #knownspace> Dan: Nah, I cannected early on general principle. If I don't fire up mIRC early, I might get busy with something else and forget about the chat entirely.
[14:42] #knownspace> NickE: he said hopefully
[14:42] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: LOL, Dan, exactlly
[14:42] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: connect before hand or suddenly realize it's 4pm
[14:42] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: Good to see you guys again
[14:42] #knownspace> Hippy: Good to see anything :)
[14:43] #knownspace> Dan: I've gotten more absent-minded with the passing of the years. :)
[14:43] #knownspace> SeanS: I will check with Mark on the Java client.
[14:43] #knownspace> SeanS: failed here as well.
[14:44] #knownspace> Dan: Aphelion's chat room had a Java client option. Rob got very tired of fixing it every other month. :)
[14:44] #knownspace> SeanS: it is probably something simple. LIke where my IP changed a while back
[14:44] #knownspace> Dan: That's quite possibly it, Sean.
[14:45] #knownspace> SeanS: that broke the eris client until I made a change in the eris config
[14:45] #knownspace> Hippy: That or evil spirits
[14:45] #knownspace> SeanS: evil spirits and sunspots can also affect java
[14:45] #knownspace> Hippy: Some sort of Gypsy curse. . .
[14:47] #knownspace> Akiraa: the IP is wrong in the applet page, it's hardcoded to 204.118.75.100 and it should be 63.131.195.200
[14:47] #knownspace> Dan: I've gotten 2 of the voice actor's recordings in for the Airships Suite song I'm upgrading from an instrumental to an audio play version. Another one is *supposed to send me his files tonight. That leaves only the Narrator actor sending his, and me recording the part I'm doing, and I can start the re-mix! This is going to be soooooo good!
[14:48] #knownspace> SeanS: my old IP addy compared to my new IP addy.
[14:48] #knownspace> Hippy: Dan this is most interstting. What are then names of these artistes?
[14:49] #knownspace> SeanS: I dont have access to make the change to the java client. Mark has been made aware.
[14:49] #knownspace> NickE: some nice sounding stuff Dan's doing
[14:50] #knownspace> Hippy: Yeah
[14:50] #knownspace> Dan: Our own Neil Pritchard is one. Alex Stadler (guitar player for The Extraordinary Contraptions) is another. My web Maven is yet another. Denis Vore is my Narrator, and myself. But that's just for this one song.
[14:51] #knownspace> NickE: awesome
[14:51] #knownspace> Hippy: Neil I'm familiar with, and Denis Vore sounds familiar
[14:52] #knownspace> Hippy: Was it Neil or Nick that played 'Spike' on some Buffy project?
[14:52] #knownspace> Dan: I decidec that the Narrator charactor will be the only constant voice. For the rest of the pieces, we'll each get to trade parts around so that the complete work sounds like it's about airships in general rather than concerning one particular airship.
[14:52] #knownspace> NickE: <ahem> guilty
[14:52] #knownspace> Hippy: J'accuse, Nick!
[14:53] #knownspace> Hippy: So it's clear many people on this channel can talk
[14:53] #knownspace> NickE: that was a while ago
[14:53] #knownspace> Dan: When I heard Neil's recordings, I damn near cried from hearing my words brought to life so vividly.
[14:53] #knownspace> Hippy: My life is so devoid of activity that it seems like yesterday, Nick
[14:53] #knownspace> NickE: Neil has a decent voice as I recal from a couple of Skype chats
[14:54] #knownspace> Hippy: I presume he retains an English accent?
[14:54] #knownspace> NickE: a fara s I can remember yes
[14:54] #knownspace> Dan: Indeed he does.
[14:54] #knownspace> Hippy: Ah. . .
[14:55] #knownspace> NickE: (this was a couple of years back, but doubt he'd pick up much of a twang between then and now :-)
[14:55] #knownspace> Dan: His voice resembles that of the British actor on Enterprise in tone and pitch. Quite lovely.
[14:56] #knownspace> Hippy: Dominic Keating, if I recall correctly
[14:57] #knownspace> Dan: Dennis Vore has a very deep bass voice. Alex Stadler provided me with 4 different readings of the lines, depicting the chame character at different ages from Cadet to Sgt. Major, so to speak.
[14:57] #knownspace> Hippy: Well done!
[14:58] #knownspace> Dan: Rob Wynne is a filker, so his voice is well trained, at least for singing, LOL!
[14:58] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: bang bang kapow
[14:58] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: sounds like beruit outside
[14:59] #knownspace> NickE: yo Mark
[14:59] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, of course. Guy Fawkes
[14:59] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: hey nick longtime no type
[14:59] #knownspace> Dan: Sounds like that here, too. I think Deer Season opened last weekend.
[14:59] #knownspace> Hippy: I wish we still had that
[14:59] #knownspace> NickE: been a few bangs, but not too bad yt
[14:59] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: suddenly guy fawkes is everywhere
[14:59] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: we're having a big night to celebrate hang drawing and quartering someone (;
[14:59] #knownspace> NickE: heh, V mask makers are making a mint
[14:59] #knownspace> Hippy: Not in the Antipodes it isn't
[15:00] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: after you're hung, i'm not sure what differnce it makes drawing and quartering you
[15:00] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, you're still alive when they do it
[15:00] #knownspace> NickE: hung till not quite dead
[15:00] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: ah.
[15:00] #knownspace> NickE: so not nice
[15:00] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: that's okay then.
[15:00] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: bring back the pillory!
[15:01] #knownspace> Hippy: It puts a damper on your socal life, yes
[15:01] #knownspace> NickE: well, they's want you to enjoy it
[15:01] #knownspace> Hippy: And tell all your friends
[15:02] #knownspace> NickE: luckily our cat simply doesnt seem bothered
[15:02] #knownspace> Hippy: The executioner will even tweet for you
[15:02] #knownspace> NickE: <g>
[15:02] #knownspace> Hippy: Ooh, sun's just coming up. Nice sunrise
[15:03] #knownspace> Hippy: So, shaping up to be a nice day mowing the lawn
[15:04] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: must go to party be back later
[15:04] #knownspace> Hippy: See you then!
[15:04] #knownspace> NickE: k, have fun
[15:05] #knownspace> SeanS: fix the java client
[15:06] #knownspace> SeanS: screw it, go party.
[15:06] #knownspace> NickE: well into autumn here, so no mowing for me
[15:07] #knownspace> Hippy: Well into Spring and the grass has just gone 'foom!' It's like 'Greener Than You Think'
[15:07] #knownspace> NickE: lwn vaguely has teh consistecy of a sponge
[15:07] #knownspace> Dan: I need to mow at least once more so that the lawn doesn't jungle-up on me during the Winter.
[15:07] #knownspace> NickE: I'd prefer to also, but it just gets too wet
[15:07] #knownspace> SeanS: I would mow once more but the 10,000 walnuts in the yard makes it a hazardous exorcise.
[15:08] #knownspace> Hippy: Wet is the problem here, too, this year
[15:10] #knownspace> NickE: bloody squirrelsl had all our walnuts
[15:10] #knownspace> SeanS: you can have as many of these as you want
[15:11] #knownspace> NickE: nah, I'm good :-)
[15:12] #knownspace> NickE: brb
[15:15] #knownspace> Dan: I need to make a weekend beer run before everything gets busy here. LOL!
[15:16] #knownspace> Hippy: It's a bit early for me :)
[15:18] #knownspace> NickE: well yes :-)
[15:18] #knownspace> NickE: on the vino atm
[15:20] #knownspace> NickE: have to go reasonably easy as am a work tomorrow (start of probably 2 weeks without a full day's break)
[15:20] #knownspace> Hippy: I"m having a nice cup of tea
[15:20] #knownspace> Hippy: Egad, Nick
[15:23] #knownspace> SeanS: sipping on a beer here.
[15:25] #knownspace> Hippy: What brand?
[15:25] #knownspace> NickE: doesnt happen often (just when we're doing a malaria challenge clinical trial)
[15:25] #knownspace> Hippy: 'Malaria Challenge' sounds like a quiz show
[15:26] #knownspace> NickE: Found a good new beer to me - Profanity Stout
[15:26] #knownspace> NickE: hehe
[15:26] #knownspace> Hippy: I'
[15:26] #knownspace> Hippy: I've been getting into Samuel Smith's Nut Brown Ale. Very nice
[15:26] #knownspace> NickE: yummy
[15:27] #knownspace> NickE: brb
[15:27] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, yes, and what the hell is it with imported beer in the US? I had ten stubbies of Newcastle Brown Ale in Florida in September and didn't even get the ghost of a glow of a nice inebriated feeling. I tried to find the alc/vol amount and it's nowhere on the bottle!
[15:28] #knownspace> Hippy: So, how alcoholic is it? 1%?
[15:29] #knownspace> mikembley: Why were you even drinking Newcastle Brown, yuck!
[15:29] #knownspace> Hippy: There's this huge bit of the label telling you about the dangers of alcohol, causing birth defects, cancer, arthritis, surprise pregnancies, whatever, but how can you know how much alcohol you've actually had?
[15:29] #knownspace> SeanS: typically 3.2 i believe
[15:29] #knownspace> Hippy: Ah. . .well, that would explain it
[15:29] #knownspace> NickE: Newkay broon's the stuff tha knows
[15:29] #knownspace> Hippy: I'm open to suggestions, mike
[15:30] #knownspace> mikembley: That stuff gives me carpet tongue.
[15:30] #knownspace> NickE: 3.. for NB? nah, should be at leats 4.2
[15:30] #knownspace> Hippy: I agree, Nick!
[15:31] #knownspace> Hippy: The Pilsner Urquell was the same. Might as well drink. . .well. . .well, Sam Adams is bearble
[15:31] #knownspace> SeanS: In the U.S. the alcohol content of beer is frequently indicated by weight while wine is usually indicated by volume. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) uses the weight measurement, and we often hear about 3.2 beer which is by weight, which equates to approximately 4% by volume.*
[15:31] #knownspace> NickE: good grief, Urquell should have been really good
[15:31] #knownspace> Dan: Back from the store.
[15:32] #knownspace> Hippy: There's no way this was 4%
[15:32] #knownspace> NickE: whatcha get?
[15:32] #knownspace> SeanS: wb
[15:32] #knownspace> Hippy: Not imported beer, I hope
[15:33] #knownspace> Hippy: So, Sean, on your beer does it say anywhere on the label what 'weight' it is?
[15:33] #knownspace> SeanS: other than 12 ounces?
[15:33] #knownspace> Dan: Natural Light for me, Steel Reserve for Lyn.
[15:33] #knownspace> SeanS: Miller lite here.
[15:33] #knownspace> NickE: something I was pleasantly surprised by when at Dragon Con in Atlanta last year was the quality of teh local beers
[15:34] #knownspace> Hippy: I'll bear that in mind, Nick
[15:34] #knownspace> SeanS: http://www.csulb.edu/~parayner/Alcohol.html
[15:34] #knownspace> Hippy: So, Sean, you'd have to guess how alcoholic the beer was
[15:34] #knownspace> NickE: the American micro brewery IPAs tend to be very good indeed
[15:34] #knownspace> SeanS: now when I am making beer they are typically 4-6 percent according to the hygrometer readings.
[15:34] #knownspace> Dan: There *are* some good local brews here near Atlanta, yes. They cost a lot more than Natty Light, though.
[15:35] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, yes, IPA's are so much the rage here now that they just use the acronoym. Took me a bit to work out what they meant the last time I was having a few snifters
[15:36] #knownspace> SeanS: looking at this can, I see 3.2 carbs and the only other measurement is 12 ounces/355ml
[15:39] #knownspace> NickE: The Profanity Stout I picked up today is 7% by volume
[15:39] #knownspace> Hippy: Now that's a beer!
[15:39] #knownspace> NickE: oh yes
[15:39] #knownspace> NickE: tasty too.
[15:39] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, good, Sean, it means I wasn't going nuts because I couldn't see a measurement on my bottles of NB
[15:40] #knownspace> Hippy: So my defence on a drink driving charge would be that I simply didn't know I was drinking anything alcoholic, because it doesn't say on the label!
[15:40] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: The last beer I got was Werewolf beer from Romania
[15:41] #knownspace> NickE: any good?
[15:41] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: (hey, it was Halloween)
[15:41] #knownspace> Akiraa: I never heard of that beer
[15:41] #knownspace> SeanS: good plan, Fred
[15:42] #knownspace> Akiraa: it's probably sold to tourists, relabeled from another local beer
[15:42] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: it was the first time I ever understood what people meant when they referred to a beer as 'skunky'
[15:42] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: so I cooked with it instead
[15:42] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: had a slow cooker recipe
[15:42] #knownspace> Dan: Same thing on this can. But as I recall from the past, NL is 4.3% alcohol.
[15:42] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: and ended up throwing out the entire slab of meat
[15:42] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: 'cause it tasted like skunk
[15:42] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: :(
[15:43] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: http://liquor-pig.blogspot.com/2009/05/werewolf-beer.html
[15:43] #knownspace> NickE: not so great then
[15:44] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: 8.2% alcohol
[15:44] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: looks like I win
[15:44] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: :)
[15:44] #knownspace> SeanS: I am going to make it to England at some point and let my English buddies introduce me to some good beer.
[15:45] #knownspace> Dan: They have some GREAT beer over there!
[15:45] #knownspace> Dan: I think that we're going back in August for a Jack the Ripper conference.
[15:45] #knownspace> Hippy: That they do
[15:46] #knownspace> SeanS: hint hint, English buddies.
[15:46] #knownspace> Hippy: 4.3% is pretty high for a light beer
[15:46] #knownspace> Hippy: Land's End to John O'Groats by pub
[15:47] #knownspace> Dan: According to several websites, NL is the best compromise between carbs, hooch content, and still resembles the taste of actual beer. LOL!
[15:47] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: hah
[15:47] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/12224/42948
[15:47] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: review says 'skunk
[15:48] #knownspace> NickE: Now I know that Hobgoblin can be obtained in the US. That is a really nice pint. 5.2% abv, rich malty taste with good hoppy balance and satisfying dark flavour
[15:49] #knownspace> Dan: Lyn's Steel Reserve, on the other hand is closer to 5% alcohol, and tastes a bit too "fruity" for me to enjoy. She loves it, though.
[15:49] #knownspace> NickE: Draft or bottled is good. Don't know abot cans, but past experience suggests not to bother with most canned real ales (Tanglefoot possibly an exception)
[15:49] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: In college I used to drink THOR beer
[15:49] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: it wasn't very good
[15:49] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: but tanj dammit, it was THOR BEER
[15:49] #knownspace> NickE: heh
[15:50] #knownspace> Dan: LOL!
[15:50] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: http://www.royalunibrew.com/Default.aspx?ID=537&PageNum=3
[15:50] #knownspace> SeanS: Its times like this that I envy the glass from Elephant's bar.
[15:50] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: we went to a sandwich place that prided itself on having a wide variety of imported and obscure brews
[15:50] #knownspace> SeanS: or wish I had the glass from Elephant's bat
[15:50] #knownspace> SeanS: bar
[15:51] #knownspace> NickE: Elephant Beer was nice (not sure if it's stil made by Carlseberg)
[15:52] #knownspace> NickE: ah..I've actually had Thor beer in Denmark. The stuff I had was quite decent as I recall
[15:53] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: cool
[15:53] #knownspace> NickE: (This was teh pilsner)
[15:53] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: probably tastes better in Denmark than in Phoenix :D
[15:53] #knownspace> Dan: Sean, when I was playing D&D I stole that detail for all my liquor & wine bottles that were treasure items. Empty it, set it down, & it refilled. Also could be used as a weapon: throw the bottle like a grenade and watch as your attackers drowned in booze! (I added a safety valve so that after a small lake of drink was created too quickly, the teleport shut down.
[15:53] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: and I don't have a very sophisticated alcohol palette
[15:53] EML has joined #knownspace
[15:53] #knownspace> SeanS: cool
[15:53] #knownspace> SeanS: Hi Ed.
[15:53] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: Hey Ed!
[15:53] #knownspace> NickE: Hi Ed
[15:53] #knownspace> EML: Hi, all. S'up?
[15:53] dmac44 has joined #knownspace
[15:53] #knownspace> Dan: Hiya, Ed! How's tricks?
[15:54] #knownspace> dmac44: hi guys
[15:54] #knownspace> SeanS: Hih dmac
[15:54] #knownspace> NickE: evenin
[15:54] #knownspace> SeanS: dang... have lost control of fingers already
[15:54] #knownspace> Hippy: Hi, Ed, dmac
[15:54] #knownspace> EML: Sort of a Waltons feeling here :-)
[15:55] #knownspace> SeanS: heh
[15:55] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: Goodnight Ed
[15:55] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: Goodnight Teela
[15:55] #knownspace> Hippy: It's all that 4% beer, Sean
[15:55] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: Goodnight Gregory
[15:55] #knownspace> NickE: <g>
[15:55] #knownspace> SeanS: then I am in big trouble, Hippy. Have only had 2.
[15:55] #knownspace> Dan: Ed, I was given a copy of "Fool's Experiments" as a gift last month. I enjoyed it quite a lot. Didn't want to put it down.
[15:56] #knownspace> EML: Dan: Glad you enjoyed it.
[15:56] #knownspace> EML: IT's a change from KS fare.
[15:56] #knownspace> Hippy: The first two are the worst. Then you ease into the thing the name of which I can't remember - the state of supreme self-knowledge acheived through drink'
[15:56] #knownspace> SeanS: That's a good recommendation. Julie has been wanting to find something for my birthday. Fools Experiments was recommended by someone I know.
[15:57] #knownspace> Dan: Yes, I do like a variety of writers. I'm not by any means a "single-intrest fan."
[15:57] #knownspace> EML: Dan: I meant it was a change from KS for *me."
[15:57] #knownspace> SeanS: heh
[15:58] #knownspace> SeanS: still highly intrigued by the idea of interstellerNET
[15:58] #knownspace> Dan: Ah! LOL! Sorry, Ed. But it applied to me eaqually. :)
[15:58] #knownspace> NickE: will have to stick that on my Christmas list
[15:58] #knownspace> EML: Sean: me, too :-)
[15:59] #knownspace> EML: Has Larry been by today?
[15:59] #knownspace> Dan: Not yet, Ed.
[16:00] #knownspace> SeanS: There may be a kindle in my future.. How does electronic copy compare to book copy from the author's (money) point of view?
[16:00] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: So now that the Ringworld doesn't have shadow squares any more, do they still observe Daylight Saving Time?
[16:00] #knownspace> Hippy: Good toopic, Fred
[16:00] #knownspace> Hippy: Er. . .topic
[16:00] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: Sean, given that the electronic copies are barely any less expensive, the authors damn well be getting at least the same royalties
[16:01] #knownspace> EML: Sean: there's no single answer. It varies by publisher, sometimes even by book (because contract boilerplate is evolving).
[16:01] #knownspace> Hippy: Jerry Pournelle was saying that it's considerably better, Sean
[16:01] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: the Kindle Fire is tempting
[16:01] #knownspace> SeanS: Looking at the Kindle Touch... the 99 buck one
[16:01] #knownspace> NickE: indeed
[16:01] #knownspace> Dan: Ah! Eternal daylight might have a detrimental effect on the vampire population. Or maybe not, since they already sought out long-term shadow areas...
[16:02] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: even given that the vampires have hidey holes
[16:02] #knownspace> EML: The KIndle Fire *is* tempting, but I wonder if/when I can get color *and* e-ink (rather than backlit).
[16:02] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: they can't venture out to hunt any more
[16:02] #knownspace> NickE: my son has a standrd Kindle and it's pretty nart
[16:02] #knownspace> NickE: neat
[16:02] #knownspace> NickE: even
[16:02] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: I think the ghouls and night people are in trouble too
[16:02] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: as well at the trillions that went made from staring at hyperspace
[16:02] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: mad
[16:03] #knownspace> Hippy: Plus, the plant life needs darkness
[16:03] #knownspace> SeanS: Nick, Dan mentioned something about Amazon having remote control of content of the kindle. is that true?
[16:03] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: yes
[16:03] #knownspace> Hippy: I'm sure Tunesmith et al will build new shadow squares
[16:03] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: they erased a book on me
[16:03] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: there was a royalty problem
[16:03] #knownspace> NickE: wtf?!
[16:03] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: and they reached out and refunded and erased
[16:03] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: er, not royalty, rights problem
[16:03] #knownspace> Hippy: Holy crap!
[16:03] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: there was a HUGE flap about it
[16:04] #knownspace> EML: IIRC, not a royalty problem but a rights problem (Amazon didn't have rights to the work in question).
[16:04] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: but it's within their rights in the terms and conditions
[16:04] #knownspace> Dan: Yeah, I remember when that made the news. They deleted copies from everyone's Kindle over that.
[16:04] #knownspace> Hippy: Would backing it up to your PC solve that?
[16:04] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: or what ed said
[16:04] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: hippy, yes
[16:04] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: if I'd known
[16:04] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: although the kindle would kill it again every time I connected to the net
[16:04] #knownspace> Hippy: That's on my agenda for today, then!
[16:05] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: and if they're smart they can tell it not to acknowledge tht book even if I reload
[16:05] #knownspace> SeanS: so they have control of content that you get from amazon. what about stuff that you dont get from amazon. like gutenburg and library.
[16:05] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: sean, good question
[16:05] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: I just synced my kindle to an ipad
[16:05] #knownspace> Hippy: So it's only a matter of time before rights change on my paperbacks and the Feds kick my door in to take them away. What a world. . .
[16:05] #knownspace> Dan: I actually enjoy reading on my Netbook, even though the screen is small.
[16:05] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: it only brought across the amazon stuff
[16:05] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: not all my bootlegged known space for instance
[16:06] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: oops, was that out loud? :)
[16:06] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: so in theory they're ignoring anything you didn't actually purchase from Amazon
[16:06] #knownspace> SeanS: thats what I am thinking
[16:06] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: in practice, who knows?
[16:06] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: certainly they can check and see what I have on there if they want
[16:07] #knownspace> Hippy: Only if you turn the wireless on
[16:07] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: right
[16:07] #knownspace> Hippy: . . .I presume
[16:07] #knownspace> Dan: In theory, but the paranoid among us will neote that they might be keeping a little list of bootlegs for later use against the owners of same. LOL!
[16:07] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, good
[16:07] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: which you'll hae to do sooner or laster
[16:07] #knownspace> mikembley: DRM is broken for kindle anyway.
[16:07] #knownspace> EML: The more connected you are, the less privacy you have. A nasty tradeoff ...
[16:07] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: ed, yes
[16:07] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: which is why I hate 'the cloud'
[16:07] #knownspace> mikembley: http://bit.ly/urzyAt
[16:07] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: apple keeps trying to get me to move all my tunes, all my mail, everything to 'the cloud'
[16:07] #knownspace> mikembley: ^^ Unswindle, DRM removal.
[16:08] #knownspace> Hippy: DRM removal! Yay!!
[16:08] #knownspace> Hippy: Now I can buy the books I want to read
[16:08] #knownspace> SeanS: i read books on the laptop all the time and it just looks like carrying the kindle into the bathroom would be a whole lot easier and less cumbersome than the 15Inch laptop
[16:08] #knownspace> Dan: I prefer backing everything up to rarely-used external drives.
[16:08] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: yes
[16:08] #knownspace> EML: IMO, the cloud is but the mainframe and timesharing all over again. I prefer a *personal* comnputer.
[16:08] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: and each drive I get is twice the size of the one before
[16:09] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: so the first thing I do is dump the old drive onto half of the new one
[16:09] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: :)
[16:09] #knownspace> Hippy: How do you do that, Fed?
[16:09] #knownspace> Dan: I'll be glad when the price of Solid State hard drives drops to something I can actually afford. And huge thumb drives, too.
[16:09] #knownspace> Hippy: I mean, what software?
[16:09] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: it's firewire. just daisy chain and drag and drop.
[16:09] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: then take the older drive out of service.
[16:10] #knownspace> SeanS: Dan, my recommendation after studying ssd's is put in a relatively small ssd for system use and massive hard drive for data
[16:10] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh. I thought you had to use Norton Ghost or something similar
[16:10] #knownspace> EML: I use a RAID NAS, for a bit of safety.
[16:10] #knownspace> Hippy: I always put my trust in spinning metal, too
[16:11] #knownspace> dmac44: raid here too.
[16:11] #knownspace> SeanS: Raid is good.
[16:12] #knownspace> Dan: That would work, except for programs that don't give me a choice as to which internal drive to install. My C:/ drive is getting too full.
[16:12] #knownspace> SeanS: by relatively small, i meant like 250 gig
[16:12] #knownspace> SeanS: put programs on it... data like music movies etc on the spinning storage
[16:12] #knownspace> Dan: Ah, that's a better safety belt.
[16:12] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: Lion won't let you do partitions
[16:12] #knownspace> Hippy: Damn right
[16:13] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: very very annoying
[16:13] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: everything is just one big messy drive
[16:13] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: except for the secret partition
[16:13] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: (seriously)
[16:13] #knownspace> Dan: I really need to clone my C:/ drive soon. The bugger is getting a bit of age on it.
[16:13] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: that has the 'restore' information on it
[16:13] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: instead of on a DVD like you used to get
[16:13] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, yes, now I know what you mean
[16:13] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: so if your drive crashes, you just restore it via the secret partition
[16:13] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: on the drive
[16:13] #knownspace> mikembley: Recovery Partitions
[16:14] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: you just crashed
[16:14] #knownspace> SeanS: no secret partitions here.
[16:14] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: wait a minute
[16:14] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: is that crazy talk?
[16:14] #knownspace> mikembley: OEMs use them a lot
[16:14] #knownspace> Hippy: I have been pondering upgrading just so I can play 'Battlefield 3' but. . .buy a new machine just to play a game?
[16:14] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: loll, sean, how would you know if there was a secret partition or not?
[16:14] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: :P
[16:14] #knownspace> Dan: Sean *would* know!
[16:14] #knownspace> SeanS: tis linux... everything is up front and in the fstab
[16:14] #knownspace> mikembley: scan sector by sector :)
[16:15] #knownspace> Hippy: Just assume there is. You can't be paranoid enough. . .
[16:15] #knownspace> Dan: Beer Pixies! Damn it, I just opened this one and now it's empty! LOL!
[16:15] #knownspace> Hippy: It's the reverse of that D&D bottle
[16:15] #knownspace> EML: If your C: drive is very old, you might not *want* to do a restore. A repave and clean install of a later service pack might be better -- and would avoid all the trialware crap in the restore partition.
[16:16] #knownspace> SeanS: what is cool is I can go get a 4 TB drive, plug it in and just type mount sdc1 /home/sean and all of a sudden my home folder grows by 4 TB
[16:16] #knownspace> Dan: That is good advice, Ed.
[16:17] #knownspace> Hippy: How much is a 4TB?
[16:17] #knownspace> SeanS: the first thing I ever do with a winblows machine is remove all the trialware.
[16:17] #knownspace> SeanS: 4000 gigabytes
[16:17] #knownspace> Dan: Exactly, Hippy! The teleport crystal is teleporting the *wrong* direction! LOL!
[16:18] #knownspace> Hippy: Ah. . .I was kind of thinking pricewise?
[16:18] #knownspace> SeanS: www.pricewatch.com but with all the thailand flooding, prices are jumping fast
[16:18] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, but my KIndle now has beer in it!
[16:19] #knownspace> Hippy: I shall check that out
[16:19] #knownspace> SeanS: I think I will ask Julie for Fool's Experiments on Ed and Dan's recommendation and then try out interstellerNET on the kindle come Christmas
[16:20] #knownspace> Dan: Sean, all I can say is that I greatly enjoyed reading it.
[16:20] #knownspace> EML: I just checked Amazon -- a 4 TB external HD started at about $219. I remember when a 10 MB drive was $400.
[16:20] #knownspace> SeanS: Ed, you did say that those 2 are available as ebooks, right? the interstellernets
[16:21] #knownspace> dmac44: and I remember when there were orange groves around disneyland :)
[16:21] #knownspace> EML: Sean: at the moment all my novels and collections are available as ebooks, for the Kindle (and often also other formats).
[16:22] #knownspace> SeanS: my first hard drive was an 80 meg drive for my apple IIgs. Had to split it into 3 partitions. 30/30/20 because the gs could not recognize anything bigger than 30 meg.
[16:22] #knownspace> SeanS: thanks, Ed
[16:23] #knownspace> EML: Da nada, Sean. I hope you enjoy your reading (but I'll never ask :-) )
[16:23] #knownspace> Hippy: I think my first was 32MB
[16:24] #knownspace> SeanS: I understand, Ed.
[16:24] #knownspace> EML: My first professional programming gig, at Bell Labs, involved a huge telephone switching system -- with about 1 MB of nonvolatile (magnetic) RAM and no disk.
[16:25] #knownspace> Dan: My first real computer had a 20MB hard drive that took me 2 years to fill. Now I can fill a 1TB external drive in 6 weeks, if I back up a lot of stuff. As I recall, I have 3TB of internal drives and 10TB of externals. But half the externals are just back-ups.
[16:26] #knownspace> SeanS: When I first started IT at Farmer's Bank, in 93, they still had a punch card reader in use... so there.
[16:26] #knownspace> EML: I was talking about the early 70s. Sean: you win.
[16:26] #knownspace> SeanS: LOL
[16:26] #knownspace> Dan: Mom ran a punch-card computer at the bank where she works when I was a pre-teen.
[16:27] #knownspace> Dan: worked.
[16:27] #knownspace> SeanS: I had to drag them kicking and screaming into technology.
[16:28] #knownspace> Hippy: I miss my Brabbage engine. . .
[16:28] #knownspace> Dan: Mom was a computer Op & part-time teller from '69 to '75. Then she got promoted to run the entire Mortgage Lending department for the next 15 years.
[16:29] #knownspace> EML: Ah, what's the difference?
[16:29] #knownspace> Hippy: LOL, Ed
[16:32] #knownspace> EML: Things have been hectic here today, so I'm going to run. Have a great weekend, everyone.
[16:32] #knownspace> dmac44: bye Ed
[16:32] #knownspace> SeanS: Thanks for dropping bye, Ed.
[16:33] #knownspace> SeanS: by
[16:33] #knownspace> SeanS: damn
[16:33] #knownspace> Hippy: You, too, Ed
[16:35] #knownspace> Hippy: So. . .anyone doing NaNoWriMo?
[16:36] #knownspace> Hippy: So. . .anyone doing. . .Lady GaGa?
[16:36] #knownspace> Dan: Drat! My LAN is refusing to recognise my wife's computer. It worked last week!
[16:37] #knownspace> Hippy: It always works last week
[16:38] #knownspace> SeanS: Wireless?
[16:38] #knownspace> SeanS: windblows? if so, Delete the connection profile and create a new one.
[16:39] #knownspace> Dan: Wired, through the wireless router. Her internet connection, etc. still works fine. But I can't copy files directly to her computer. I had to copy the image she just scanned into a thumb drive.
[16:40] #knownspace> SeanS: windows is horrible about permission issues I fight it all the time with Evan's laptop up at Julies.
[16:40] #knownspace> Hippy: That's what I do these days, too. Then just walk to the second bedroom and copy it on to the PC there. It's just easier
[16:40] #knownspace> Dan: If she'd just quit opening virus-laden e-mails through her online mail programs...
[16:40] #knownspace> SeanS: sometimes it is easier to upload stuff to my ftp server then download to the windows laptop
[16:41] #knownspace> SeanS: and this homegroup shit in windows 7 sucks in any multi OS enviroment
[16:41] #knownspace> Dan: I swear! I've had to wipe her hard drives and reinstall more times in the last 6 years than I've ever had to do on my own 5 computers combined! Rassum, frassum...
[16:42] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: Now that Ed's gone ...
[16:43] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes?
[16:43] #knownspace> SeanS: since I have gone to linux, I just upgrade... dont reinstall from scratch.
[16:43] #knownspace> SeanS: thats why i said library and gutenburg
[16:43] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: I was sent a communique from the Niven list
[16:43] #knownspace> Hippy: Go on. . .
[16:43] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: where Sheen said I called him a fat lying fuck because he said good stuff about Obama
[16:44] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: for the record, that is NOT why I called him a fat lying fuck
[16:44] #knownspace> Dan: So I recall, Fred.
[16:44] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: I was tempted to resubscribe just to call him a fat lying fuck for that
[16:44] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: it may have been obscured across various replies
[16:45] #knownspace> SeanS: i thought you were going back to the kindle conversation
[16:45] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: but IIRC he said that I had claimed only white male landowners should be entitled to vote
[16:45] #knownspace> Hippy: Who would claim that?
[16:45] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: exactly
[16:46] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: which is why I felt 'fat lying fuck' was an appropriate reply
[16:46] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: plus, I knew it was my last
[16:46] #knownspace> Hippy: So would I
[16:46] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: LOL, no, Sean, I just spare Ed the list politics 'cause I know he doesn't care for it
[16:46] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: and the dental horror stories
[16:46] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: there are topics Ed is squeamish about :D
[16:47] #knownspace> SeanS: my true kindle question was is amazon going to be able to see the 800 titles that i have sitting on my network.
[16:47] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: I have all of Known Space on my Kindle
[16:47] #knownspace> Akiraa: Dan, the computer is visible in the windows network? (smb, CIF)
[16:47] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: at this point I don't think Amazon cares since I can't get them legitimately
[16:47] #knownspace> SeanS: k
[16:47] #knownspace> Akiraa: and which operating system?
[16:47] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: I suspect they might begin to care when I have a bootlegged RINGWORLD and it can actually be purchased
[16:48] #knownspace> SeanS: because they will be on the kindle within minutes of it being charged up
[16:48] #knownspace> Dan: *MY* question is "will Sean edit any pirate questions from the posted version of the chat log?" :)
[16:48] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: hee hee
[16:48] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: I own about a dozen physical copies of Ringworld
[16:48] #knownspace> Hippy: I don't like the diea that the rights might suddenly expire, and Amazon just whips them off my KIndle and asks me to rebuy the same book. At the moment I own them permanently, but suppose some publisher says 'No you don't
[16:48] #knownspace> SeanS: i can write 16:46 on the white board and remove it if requested.
[16:48] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: and I can't buy an electronic copy or I would
[16:48] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: my conscience is clear
[16:49] #knownspace> SeanS: I have bought all of knownspace before and they were destroyed in the house fire so my conscience is clear as well
[16:49] #knownspace> SeanS: lots of niven books on the shelf over my left shoulder as well.
[16:49] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: ack
[16:50] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: I got an excellent little program that converts between ebook formats
[16:50] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: so I have all the Doc Savage books as well
[16:50] #knownspace> Hippy: Is that Calibre?
[16:50] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: yeah
[16:50] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: thanks
[16:50] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: couldn't recall
[16:50] #knownspace> SeanS: yeah... 98.. lost everything I ever had. including the iguana
[16:50] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: :(
[16:50] #knownspace> Hippy: That sucks, Sean
[16:50] #knownspace> SeanS: i run calibre on the laptop. nice linux book reader
[16:51] #knownspace> SeanS: old news hippy but thanks
[16:51] #knownspace> Hippy: And you can edit text files to make them more Kindle-able
[16:51] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: caliber is just great. I find doc savage pdfs and convert to mobi with color covers I find elsewhere and they run on the ipad too
[16:51] #knownspace> Hippy: Although, I would like to know how to write stuff so the Text-to-speech would pronounce them corectly
[16:51] #knownspace> Dan: I once had to "physically restrain" my 1st wife when she attempted to destroy my books during an argument that she'd started. I did my best to give the impression that she'd show up on Unsolved Myseries if she ever tried that stunt again. :(
[16:51] #knownspace> SeanS: on windows, I use ybook.
[16:52] #knownspace> SeanS: heh
[16:52] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: hey, did you see the guy that just strangled his wife for destroying his star wars toys?
[16:52] #knownspace> Hippy: Wives can be replaced, books cannot
[16:52] #knownspace> SeanS: calibre does text to speech? I have just started using it in the last couple of days.
[16:52] #knownspace> Dan: I did. Justifiable Homicide if there ever was a case for one.
[16:53] #knownspace> Hippy: No, no. The Kindle does
[16:53] #knownspace> SeanS: I saw the kindle text to speech thing
[16:53] #knownspace> SeanS: does it to well?
[16:53] #knownspace> Hippy: But if you're listeningn to Tolkien its limitations become apparent :)
[16:53] #knownspace> NickE: it pronounces kzinti correctly :-)
[16:53] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: http://jediinsider.com/index.php?catid=8&itemid=13880
[16:53] #knownspace> SeanS: hell, I cant pronounce half the tolkein stuff.
[16:53] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, it's pretty good unless you're listening to other than English
[16:53] #knownspace> Hippy: But it's intelligible
[16:54] #knownspace> Hippy: It doesn't like words ending in 'ong' for some reason. It sounds like it gets it 'rar'
[16:55] #knownspace> SeanS: Well, I think I will get one on what I have seen here today.
[16:55] #knownspace> Hippy: It was a godsend to me when I couldn't read
[16:55] #knownspace> SeanS: most of my pirate fears have been resolved.
[16:55] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: sean, notes on kindles
[16:55] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: I held out for the DX
[16:56] #knownspace> Hippy: Me, too
[16:56] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: which is more the size of a hardback than a paperback
[16:56] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: the kindle fire comes out next month IIRC
[16:56] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: color
[16:56] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: does movies
[16:56] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: still half what I paid for the DX
[16:56] #knownspace> Akiraa: what's that version of ubuntu which included all the relevant nonfree packages?
[16:56] #knownspace> SeanS: i dont want to watch movies on a 6 inch screen.
[16:56] #knownspace> Akiraa: ah, mint!
[16:56] #knownspace> Hippy: With a battery life resembling some radiaoctive elements
[16:56] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: but it is a smaller screen than the DX
[16:57] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: lol, hippy
[16:57] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: I'm on my shiny new macbook pro
[16:57] #knownspace> Dan: Hippy, *that* particular wife *eas* replaced shortly after the incident I related. Bought her off with a small divorce settlement and found another wife within 18 months of the divorce decree being finalized.
[16:57] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: 17" and when you first pull the power cord it tell you you have 9 hours of battery life
[16:57] #knownspace> Dan: *eas* = *was*
[16:58] #knownspace> Hippy: I was gong to say 17 inches was a good size, but. . .
[16:58] #knownspace> SeanS: i play movies in high def to my 47" 1080p tv in dolby digital. smart phones for movies do not interest me
[16:58] #knownspace> SeanS: i will get the kindle to take a zillion books with me every where.
[16:59] #knownspace> SeanS: are the claims accurate? you can read it on a boat in the sun?
[16:59] #knownspace> Hippy: Plus the text-to-speech means you can do other things while you listen. I bought some stuff for the KIndle I would never have bought to sit down and read, but if you can do the dishes and still hear the book
[17:00] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, you can. Even I can read it like that, if I put the font up to a good size
[17:00] #knownspace> Dan: 1st wife: 5 years before divorce. 2nd wife: 13 years 'til death did us part. 3rd wife: 6 years and counting! I'm taking better care of this one! I do *not* want to have to train Wife 4.0! Life is too short!
[17:00] #knownspace> SeanS: i can not read the laptop in direct sun
[17:00] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: I would like to say that text-to-speech does a better job on Ringworld than the audio books guy
[17:01] #knownspace> SeanS: interesting fred
[17:01] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: sean, you can't read a real book in direct sunlight in arizona :)
[17:01] #knownspace> SeanS: heh
[17:01] #knownspace> Hippy: Good point, Fred
[17:01] #knownspace> SeanS: do they just burst into flame?
[17:01] #knownspace> Dan: Fred, you could read a real book, but the sunlight keeps setting the pages on fire, LOL!
[17:01] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: or the reflected light melts your eyeballs
[17:01] #knownspace> Hippy: Friends of mine were complaining that because it's not backlit, they can't rad it in the dark. But apparently they can read a paperback in the dark
[17:02] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: heh
[17:02] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: I thought the 'can't read in dark' argument was stupid until I got the ipad
[17:02] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: glowing pages are pretty awesome
[17:02] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, wehre 'awesome' means 'gimmicky' :)
[17:02] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: and I spent the last two months in hospital rooms with my mom
[17:02] #knownspace> SeanS: i can read the laptop in the dark. and it has a nice screen brightness feature
[17:03] #knownspace> Dan: I've never been to Arizona, but I've been to New Mexico. Fairly close in comparison.
[17:03] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: she can have darkness and I can still real
[17:03] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: read
[17:03] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, that's a selling point, yes
[17:03] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: granted it's an unusual circumstance, and one I hope you never share
[17:03] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: oh
[17:03] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: and
[17:04] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: a couple nights ago they knocked out the power to the area
[17:04] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: we were in PITCH blackness
[17:04] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: I finally woke up enough to pop open the ipad
[17:04] #knownspace> Hippy: Another good point
[17:04] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: lit up the whole room :)
[17:04] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: try THAT with your kindle!
[17:04] #knownspace> Dan: LOL!
[17:05] #knownspace> Hippy: I'll glue them to the ceiling and save on light globes
[17:05] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: I was digging around in the dark trying to find a flashlight in my bag by feel and finally went 'doh!'
[17:05] #knownspace> dmac44: why 17?
[17:05] #knownspace> Dan: I have used my Netbook to watch a *good* movie on an airliner during a trans-Atlantic flight.
[17:05] #knownspace> Hippy: You can never have enough iPads :)
[17:06] #knownspace> Hippy: Crossing the Pacific was my main reason for buying the Kindle
[17:06] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: hmm. is the kindle fire backlit?
[17:06] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: 'cause I'm not sure how movies are gonna look on it otherwise
[17:06] #knownspace> Dan: I loaded all the "Thin Man" movies into my Netbook for just such an occasion!
[17:06] #knownspace> Hippy: In fact I have 20 lights in the house so will need to buy even more iPads
[17:07] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, I think the Fire is backlit
[17:07] #knownspace> SeanS: the kindle for me will just be a book reader.
[17:08] #knownspace> Dan: I also have an 8GB HDSC card loaded with e-books to read on my Netbook.
[17:08] #knownspace> Hippy: One thing that's annoying about the text-to-speech is it's habit of identifying the punctuation. It says 'backquote' at the start of every line of dialogue, but after a bit you just tune that out
[17:09] #knownspace> SeanS: do you have to have an amazon account with a kindle?
[17:09] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: no
[17:09] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: but it's free
[17:09] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: kindle fire is backlit
[17:09] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: kindle users are complaining :)
[17:09] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: they like the e-ink
[17:09] #knownspace> SeanS: well, if i never sign up for one they cant look at my stuff. quest5ion answered
[17:09] #knownspace> Akiraa: hey hey, do you remember what day it is today?
[17:09] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: oh. Um ...
[17:10] #knownspace> Hippy: It's Sunday
[17:10] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: I don't know if you can do that
[17:10] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: it might have some activation protocol
[17:10] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: it didn't matter to me 'cause I had an account
[17:10] #knownspace> Akiraa: it's 5th of november and we all forgot
[17:10] #knownspace> mikembley: I didnt, because i can hear the fireworks ;)
[17:10] #knownspace> SeanS: if it does that is a turn off for me
[17:10] #knownspace> Hippy: No, it was mentioned before. Guy Fawkes
[17:10] #knownspace> Akiraa: the gunpowder treason and plot :p
[17:10] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: yeah, sean, I just don't know
[17:10] #knownspace> Hippy: And the 5th was yesterday for me :)
[17:11] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: you don't have to buy it from amazon
[17:11] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: you can buy one at Staples, for instance
[17:11] #knownspace> SeanS: tis ok... i think you can pick them up at best buy up the road
[17:11] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: but I don't know if you can just hook it up to your computer and dump stuff on it
[17:11] #knownspace> Akiraa: what about buying a paper book in the store, but also one off the swedish free store?
[17:11] #knownspace> SeanS: it says it has usb and wifi for you home and hot spots
[17:11] #knownspace> Hippy: You should be able to. I can certainly move stuff via the USB
[17:12] #knownspace> Hippy: I like this Swedish free store idea
[17:13] #knownspace> SeanS: if i have to log into an amazon account to pull stuff off one of my servers it will go back.
[17:13] #knownspace> SeanS: buy a couple cases of wine instead. ;)
[17:13] #knownspace> Hippy: I don't think you'd need to do that. I can move stuff around with the wireless turned off
[17:14] #knownspace> Hippy: So effectively not logged in to anything
[17:15] #knownspace> Hippy: Akiraa, what's this Swedish free store?
[17:16] #knownspace> Akiraa: Hippy, the pirate bay
[17:16] #knownspace> Dan: International Citizenship Question: Why is there a greater benefit for my oldest daughter to retain a Resident Alien status in the US and remain a UK citizen than it proves for my wife to have become a US citizen while retaining her UK citizen rights as well? (That doges the question of the status of my wife's Venezualian citizenship by virtue of her being born to British parents whilst
[17:16] #knownspace> Dan: they were living in Caracas?
[17:16] #knownspace> Hippy: Ah, now I see. Thanks
[17:18] #knownspace> dmac44: Short one for me today. See you all next month.
[17:18] #knownspace> SeanS: later dmac
[17:18] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: Yeah, I hardwire transfer my files on the kindle
[17:18] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: bye dmac
[17:19] #knownspace> SeanS: well, thank you Fred and Hippy for answering a lot of my kindle questions.
[17:20] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: and yet, not enough
[17:20] #knownspace> Hippy: NO worries, Sean
[17:20] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: but as long as it's returnable
[17:20] #knownspace> Hippy: Dans' question is a little harder :)
[17:20] #knownspace> SeanS: i think i posed questions that you hadnt considered.
[17:20] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: if it requires an account to start it up, you'll find out pretty quick
[17:21] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: like 'in the parking lot'
[17:21] #knownspace> SeanS: is it charged in the box?
[17:21] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: mine had some charge
[17:21] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: enough for that
[17:21] #knownspace> SeanS: actually, it will probably be wrapped with my name on it under a fake tree.
[17:21] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: heh
[17:21] #knownspace> Dan: Chavez revoked Venezualian citizenship for everyone who ever applied for US citizenship, so Lyn is persona non grata in the country of her birth until Chavez dies. But the UK allows Lyn to hold her UK & US citizenship equally without protest. But Lyn's eldest daughter has been in the US for over 20 years (since age 10) without ever applying for US citizenship.
[17:22] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: yeesh
[17:22] #knownspace> SeanS: I dont want to wrap my beer drinking mind around that.
[17:22] #knownspace> Hippy: And she can legally work without citizenship?
[17:23] #knownspace> Dan: Lyn & Michelle only ever pay US income taxes.
[17:23] #knownspace> Hippy: Bah! I poid tax when I was there, too! Where's my repesentation??? That's what I say!
[17:23] #knownspace> SeanS: sales tax doesnt count
[17:23] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, I poid it
[17:24] #knownspace> Hippy: It bloody well ought to!
[17:24] #knownspace> SeanS: anybody going to libertycon with Dan and me next year?
[17:24] #knownspace> Hippy: Weak beer, sales tax. . if it weren't for chili dogs, I'd. . .
[17:25] #knownspace> Hippy: I'm aiming to
[17:25] #knownspace> SeanS: ad on tv for a virus... maxmyspeed.com
[17:25] #knownspace> Hippy: It will depend on my cash reserves
[17:25] #knownspace> Dan: Oddly enough, I could take advantage of UK health care by virtue of being married to a UK citizen. That freaks me out, because I don't think I should because I've never paid into the UK national health program.
[17:25] #knownspace> mikembley: Neither does half of our jobless :)
[17:26] #knownspace> Hippy: I looked into premanent residencyin the US, albeit briefly, and it seems difficult to get
[17:26] #knownspace> Dan: Indeed! But I'm fanatic about only using what I've actually *earned!*
[17:26] #knownspace> Hippy: They don't seem to want people to retire there
[17:27] #knownspace> Hippy: Dan, look at the VAT you have to pay there. You earnt it!
[17:27] #knownspace> Hippy: Plus, you took one of their citizens off their hands
[17:27] #knownspace> Hippy: Two of them
[17:27] #knownspace> Dan: I've checked into it. I could retire in the UK and still receive my US retirement funds.
[17:27] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: the fuel tax here is userous as well
[17:27] #knownspace> SeanS: back from the party i see.
[17:27] #knownspace> SeanS: now fix the java client
[17:27] #knownspace> Hippy: Same for me. Retire to the US and still get mine, if the US would let me in
[17:27] #knownspace> SeanS: ;)
[17:27] #knownspace> mikembley: Haha.
[17:28] #knownspace> Dan: But I'd have to start paying both US & UK taxes if I did that.
[17:28] #knownspace> Hippy: No, you'd get tax credit for the US taxes
[17:28] #knownspace> Hippy: Dual tax agreement between UK and US
[17:28] #knownspace> Dan: Ah! I didn't find that in the sources I read! Thank you.
[17:29] #knownspace> SeanS: you thinking about jumping the pond dan?
[17:29] #knownspace> SeanS: I am sure the beer is better
[17:29] #knownspace> Hippy: Actually, I'd think US pensions would be exempt foreign source income, so you might be even better off
[17:30] #knownspace> Dan: Lyn wants to retire to Cosham. I can't see it because that would force me to sell off all my firearms, swords, knives, etc.
[17:30] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, there is that
[17:30] #knownspace> SeanS: yeah... extremely frowned apon over there as i understand
[17:31] #knownspace> Dan: $100k worth of weapons I'd only ever see $1k worth or resale value from? No thanks!
[17:31] #knownspace> Dan: or = of
[17:32] #knownspace> SeanS: I would not like to give up my firearms as well.. tho I have far less than you.
[17:32] #knownspace> Dan: My Desert Eagle .44 magnum has a MSRP of $1500 right now. I'd be lucky to get $500 in a sale.
[17:32] #knownspace> SeanS: how do the english police enforce the law? Stop! or I will say stop again.
[17:33] #knownspace> Hippy: No, they have guns
[17:33] #knownspace> mikembley: They tackle you to the ground.
[17:33] #knownspace> Hippy: It's New Zealand cops who don't have guns as a general rule
[17:33] #knownspace> mikembley: And then tell you stop resisting (If you are)
[17:33] #knownspace> SeanS: tis a Robin Williams joke
[17:33] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, sorry
[17:34] #knownspace> Dan: Sean, last time I was there this year, Lyn freaked out because I'd managed to smuggle a penknife into the UK. She said that if a policeman saw it I'd get locked up!
[17:34] #knownspace> SeanS: really
[17:34] #knownspace> mikembley: What length is the blade?
[17:34] #knownspace> Dan: Tiny, tiny knife. Less than a 2.5 inch blade.
[17:34] #knownspace> SeanS: I like a society where if a 14 year old is carrying a rifle down the street the cop asks how the hunting is.
[17:34] #knownspace> Hippy: A switchblade can get you locked up here
[17:35] #knownspace> Dan: Here too. I own two switchblades that are legal for me to keep in the house, but would be an automatic 5 year prison sentence if I ever carried one in public.
[17:36] #knownspace> Hippy: I don't htink we're that extreme on the sentencing. Probably get three months at the worst
[17:37] #knownspace> SeanS: Sounds like the 3 knives I use for processing deer would really piss off cops in other parts of the world. no switch blades but large and extremely sharp.
[17:37] #knownspace> SeanS: one to bust bone and 2 that you can shave with.
[17:37] #knownspace> Hippy: Crocodile Dundee style?
[17:37] #knownspace> SeanS: not that big.
[17:37] #knownspace> Dan: I've got a dozen pistols, half a dozen rifles, a shotgun, 40 swords, 50 knives... Hell, they're just property here in the US. In the UK, thry're enough to get me locked up as a terrorist! LOL!
[17:38] #knownspace> Hippy: To be fair, the UK does have more terrorists in it than the US does
[17:39] #knownspace> Dan: As the old joke goes: "Sir, what are you afraid of? Not a DAMN thing!"
[17:39] #knownspace> SeanS: i have 4 firearms. .50 caliber black powder rifle, .270 caliber rifle, 12 gauge shot gun and beretta 9mm pistol.
[17:39] #knownspace> SeanS: with those, I can hunt anything in N. America
[17:39] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: including zombies
[17:39] #knownspace> mikembley: You have more public shootings, We have more terrorists, Trade off?
[17:39] #knownspace> SeanS: oh, and an absolutely huge potato gun.
[17:39] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: but not a bandersnatch
[17:40] #knownspace> Hippy: Let's hjope nobody goes missing in Frankfort, then :)
[17:40] #knownspace> SeanS: depends on what you load into the potato gun
[17:41] #knownspace> SeanS: about a 4 inch bore on that thing
[17:41] #knownspace> Dan: I was raised in a hunting & fishing culture in Tennessee & Georgia. I have a real problem thinking that a firearm is more than just a way to put food on the table & keep criminals from kicking my door in or carjackers from seeing me as a viable target.
[17:41] #knownspace> SeanS: Hippy, I can promise you there are 50,000 people within 20 miles of me that have shitloads more firearms than I do.
[17:42] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, but we argue here (I don't) that the reason you get carjacked is because the carjackers have guns, too
[17:42] #knownspace> Hippy: I don't doubt it, Sean. Dan is probably something of a liberal in his neck of the woods, too
[17:42] #knownspace> SeanS: carjackers typically go after license plates that do not allow gun ownership
[17:43] #knownspace> SeanS: or limited gun ownership
[17:43] #knownspace> Hippy: Is that true? Interesting gun use defense if it is
[17:43] #knownspace> SeanS: for instance... they want to hit a car with New York plates instead of Georgia plates
[17:44] #knownspace> SeanS: tis a statistic
[17:44] #knownspace> Hippy: So you would think that carjacking would be more prevalent here than in the US, but it isn't
[17:45] #knownspace> Hippy: The best argument for gun ownership I've ever heard is 'I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it'
[17:45] #knownspace> Dan: I have a cousin in Tenness that owns over 100 hunting rifles. He uses them as wall paneling in his Living Room! Any of them could be taken off the shelves in seconds.
[17:46] #knownspace> SeanS: i love gun ownership and hope to God that i never have to use one other than for food or targets.
[17:47] #knownspace> Hippy: One question I was assked the last time I was there was 'What happens if someone invades Australia?' So it's clear that some people think that gun ownership will let them take to the heills as ome kind of Resistance movement
[17:47] #knownspace> Dan: I've carried a small pistol every day for the last 25 years, & only needed it once. I had it locked up in my vehicle the one time I felt I needed it. Never doing that again!
[17:47] #knownspace> SeanS: hence my next statement, Dan. An unloaded gun is a stick and a gun in another room is furniture.
[17:48] #knownspace> Hippy: I agree
[17:49] #knownspace> SeanS: Hippy, I thought you were in Oz... are you in New Zealand?
[17:50] #knownspace> Hippy: No, Australia
[17:50] #knownspace> SeanS: Thats what I thought. just checking.
[17:50] #knownspace> Hippy: No worries
[17:51] #knownspace> mikembley: If you hold a gun license, Could you allow someone else to use your gun under your supervision?
[17:51] #knownspace> SeanS: well, you kept saying new zealand so I wondered.
[17:51] #knownspace> Hippy: Not here
[17:51] #knownspace> Dan: Exactly! I left the pistol in my truck because my host's wife was uncomfortable around guns. It so happens that was the one time that armed cocain dealers crashed a party, held the host at gunpoint within 5 feet of me, and beat the crap out of a black couple that was at the party. I was reduced to being shoved into a clset with a child, my pocket knife, and a vow to protect that child with
[17:51] #knownspace> Dan: my life if the druggies managed to actually get through the locked door that they were trying to kick in.
[17:51] #knownspace> SeanS: guns are not licensed in the states... at least not in kentucky
[17:51] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, I was just talking about the police there being unarmed - mostly unarmed
[17:52] #knownspace> SeanS: gotcha
[17:52] #knownspace> Akiraa: armed citizenry, unarmed police, that's a civilized state
[17:52] #knownspace> SeanS: the US has armed citizenry and armed police
[17:52] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, yes, Akiraa. . .
[17:53] #knownspace> Dan: And better armed criminals, Sean!
[17:53] #knownspace> Hippy: So in Kentucky you don't need some k,ind of permit to carry a gun?
[17:53] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: no one gets shot here.
[17:53] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: in arizona, no permit was required. i owned a 22 rifle
[17:54] #knownspace> Dan: Only our military (and collectors like myself) have better weapons than do our criminals.
[17:56] #knownspace> SeanS: Hippy, you can wear it on your hip walking down the street.. if you want to carry concealed you have to take a class, get an fbi check and get a concealed permit.
[17:57] #knownspace> SeanS: FWIW, I have a concealed license
[17:57] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: so you don't show it to people?
[17:57] #knownspace> Dan: Each US state has different firearms laws. *Usually* but not always, a permit is required to *carry* handguns, but hunting rifles & shotguns are not as strictly regulated. Mere ownership is even more complicated with background checks before finalized purchase, etc.
[17:57] #knownspace> SeanS: I typically do not carry.
[17:57] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: in arizona you need no background check for a private sale
[17:58] #knownspace> SeanS: the only checks in kentucky are gun store sails
[17:58] #knownspace> SeanS: sales
[17:58] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: okay, at 3 in the afternoon, Mom is awake, so I'm gonna resume caregiver duties. I'll leave this open and see youts later!
[17:58] #knownspace> Dan: Whereas, sice Georgia laws are different from Kentucky laws, Sean could carry a pistol on his hip, but I have to carry mine in a concealed holster.
[17:58] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: always a pleasure
[17:58] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: Canadians have loads of guns and don't shoot each other
[17:58] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: see you fred!
[17:58] #knownspace> SeanS: later freddo
[17:58] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: it's something about americans
[17:58] #knownspace> Dan: Bye, Fred!
[17:59] #knownspace> SeanS: my concealed license in KY lets me carry in Ga as well... and it reciprocates.
[18:00] #knownspace> SeanS: chill jars... you are an american... transplanted.
[18:00] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: heh.
[18:00] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: a friend of mine posted on facebook "when you used to be American"
[18:00] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: heh
[18:00] #knownspace> SeanS: heh
[18:01] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: i guess i'm a turn coat
[18:01] #knownspace> SeanS: did you see where you need to fix the java client?
[18:01] #knownspace> Dan: When I visit relatives in Tennessee, I am supposed to remove my pistol from my person and place it in the glove box of my vehicle to drive around. I think that's a little unweildy.
[18:01] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: no i only just got back
[18:01] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: i haven't tested it in ages
[18:01] #knownspace> SeanS: it seems java is still pointing to my old ip
[18:02] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: ah. i'll have a look when i'm more sober. you'll have to remind me
[18:02] #knownspace> SeanS: i will shoot you an email reminder when i send the log
[18:02] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: thanks
[18:03] #knownspace> SeanS: oh, and i mentioned earlier that i will make it to england eventually and expect people there to show me good beer.
[18:03] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: personally, i prefer if people are going to be armed, that they be clearly armed
[18:04] #knownspace> Dan: Sean, it would be amazing if we both wound up in the UK at the same time. LOL!
[18:04] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: and Dan and everyone else. I'll take you to the Heys Inn for a beer
[18:04] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: all of you'all
[18:04] #knownspace> Dan: Jon, I agree. I hate having to do Concealed Carry.
[18:05] #knownspace> SeanS: I only know where the plane lands
[18:06] #knownspace> Dan: Mostly I hate it because it removes the deterrent factor from casual crime. If I have to hide it, someone with bad intent might think I don't have one.
[18:06] #knownspace> SeanS: well, you dont have to hide it here, but if you want to, you have to get the license.
[18:07] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: was the big concealed carry thing because women wanted to carry guns in their purse
[18:07] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: purses
[18:07] #knownspace> Dan: In Georgia, to carry it leagly with a permit, you have to hide it! That doesn't make sense to me.
[18:07] #knownspace> SeanS: its been a while... like more than 10 years so i dont recall
[18:08] #knownspace> SeanS: wow, dan. So I can carry openly here with nothing but the gun and you have to get a permit?
[18:08] #knownspace> Hippy: You have to get extra permits to carry concealed here, too. Not that there are many of these permits floating about
[18:08] #knownspace> Dan: I'be carried a hand & a half broadsword hung on my backpack and no cop blinked, but a pistol I am forced by law to hide?
[18:10] #knownspace> SeanS: the uninitiated do not understand that the sword is just as deadly and more painful. silly them
[18:10] #knownspace> Dan: Exactly, Sean. To carry within the limits of the law, I had to buy a concealed holster. If I carry a firearm openly, it has to be a rifle, in my hands, into the woods. No visible firearm of any design is leagle to carry in public.
[18:10] #knownspace> SeanS: and does not leave brass around
[18:11] #knownspace> SeanS: with Georgia being a more southern state, i would figure that would be backward that what it is.
[18:12] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: i liked shooting cans with a rifle but i decided that firearms weren't compatable with small children
[18:12] #knownspace> Hippy: It's the Union's plan to disarm the South
[18:12] #knownspace> Akiraa: why not?
[18:13] #knownspace> Akiraa: well, kids have to be taught guns are not toys
[18:13] #knownspace> SeanS: Hippy... funny
[18:13] #knownspace> Dan: I think US firearms laws are just a bit under-thought out. I'd like to see a handgun permit that allows one to folow one's resident State's laws legally in all other states.
[18:13] #knownspace> Hippy: Which reminds me. . .has anyone else heard David Brin talking about 'the third part of the Civil War'? He mentioned this a few times at the WorldCon and I know not of what he speaks
[18:13] #knownspace> SeanS: nope
[18:13] #knownspace> SeanS: dan, most states do that under the table
[18:14] #knownspace> SeanS: its there, they just dont want it in the press.
[18:14] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: well, i remember my friend playing with the rifle his dad gave hime. the weapon was unloaded and the safety was on. he blew a hole though his window
[18:14] #knownspace> SeanS: when i got my licsense to kill, they said i could drive from here to FL and everything would be fine
[18:15] #knownspace> Hippy: No Consitutional amendment is idiotproof
[18:15] #knownspace> Dan: Akiraa, that is one thing I love about my childhood in Tennessee & Georgia. I was taught from age 5 that firearms were *not* toys & that firearms safety was the most important thing anyone can ever learn.
[18:15] #knownspace> Hippy: I don't think they meant you were supposed to kill all the way there, Sean :)
[18:16] #knownspace> SeanS: i learned at an early age that every gun was loaded until you checked for yourself. regardless of you just seeing a guy checking.
[18:16] #knownspace> Dan: I've done my best to teach my wife & kids the same safety lessons.
[18:16] #knownspace> Dan: Sean, that's Rule #1!
[18:16] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: well, everyone's choices are their own and i respect that.
[18:17] #knownspace> jonmanyjars: but they wouldn't let me have one here anyway
[18:17] #knownspace> SeanS: heh, hippy, i was trying to keep from typing concealed deadly weapons license yet again... oh well.
[18:17] #knownspace> Dan: "Every firearm is loaded until you unloade it yourself. And even then you have to open the breach *yourself* to make sure you didn't screw up!"
[18:17] #knownspace> Hippy: He he he
[18:17] #knownspace> SeanS: and a good rule #1 it is
[18:19] #knownspace> Dan: Mom & Dad taught me firearms safety from the time I was 5 years old. I'm 54 this week, and I've never forgotten those lessons!
[18:19] #knownspace> SeanS: regardless of how much i promote the legal owning of firearms, I will talk firearm safety far more.
[18:19] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, happy birthday, Dan!
[18:20] #knownspace> Hippy: This now makes me the fourth oldest person on this channel, I think, at 49.75
[18:21] #knownspace> SeanS: going to be 43 come Nov 27
[18:21] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, happy birthday to you, too
[18:21] #knownspace> Hippy: Anyone else before December 8th?
[18:21] #knownspace> SeanS: are you serious about libertycon hippy?
[18:21] #knownspace> SeanS: I have decided to go.
[18:22] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes. I'll be out of my bankruptcy then and free to travel, so it's just reaising the ticket price
[18:22] #knownspace> Dan: Thanks. I think I've turned 19 for the 35th time, LOL!
[18:22] #knownspace> Hippy: I'll join as supporting member and then upgrade if I can afford it
[18:22] #knownspace> Hippy: Dan asked me to go last month, and I was so flattered I decided I would
[18:23] #knownspace> Hippy: Much more fun to go to a con wher you know people
[18:23] #knownspace> SeanS: Julie wants to go to DC and do museums for a week next summer so we will see how i can work that in... but I will be at LibertyCon
[18:23] #knownspace> Hippy: And of course Larry will be there (I hope)
[18:23] #knownspace> SeanS: Larry and Jerry both
[18:23] #knownspace> Hippy: It galls me that I can't get a train to Chattanooga
[18:23] #knownspace> Dan: LibertyCon in 2012 is the 25th annuversary! It'll be held in the Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel this time so that more memberships can be allowed.
[18:24] #knownspace> SeanS: there are train tracks there... you can hobo
[18:24] #knownspace> Dan: Let me look up the info...
[18:24] #knownspace> Hippy: I couldn't track any route online. The closest I could get was Raleigh, Georgia
[18:24] #knownspace> SeanS: long walk
[18:24] #knownspace> Hippy: It would be criminal not to go to Chattanooga by train from New York
[18:25] #knownspace> Dan: http://www.libertycon.org/
[18:25] #knownspace> Hippy: Even if you can't do Baltimore etc
[18:25] #knownspace> SeanS: most of America is just too big for trains
[18:26] #knownspace> Hippy: You used to have trains. But nowadays flying is so cheap there
[18:26] #knownspace> SeanS: trains on the east coast work
[18:26] #knownspace> Dan: I still have to book hotel rooms for AnachroCon in Atlanta and LibertyCon in Chattanooga, even though we have Lifetime Memberships for AnachroCon & bought our LibertyCon memberships last July.
[18:26] #knownspace> SeanS: up and down the coast
[18:27] #knownspace> SeanS: but in mid and west america they do not work
[18:27] #knownspace> Hippy: Population density has seen to that
[18:27] #knownspace> Hippy: Our cross country trains are heavily subsidised and rely on there being few airports out in the desert
[18:28] #knownspace> SeanS: well, you can not convince a person to take a train when you can get there as fast or faster by car
[18:28] #knownspace> Hippy: Exactly
[18:28] #knownspace> SeanS: and then rent a car or pay a cab once there.
[18:29] #knownspace> Hippy: And if you can get from Orlando to Chicago for $47 by plane, why would you go by any other method?
[18:29] #knownspace> SeanS: and historically, every town will lobby for a stop so even 'high speed rail' will go 30 miles an hour
[18:29] #knownspace> Dan: We're minor royalty for AnachroCon, since we were the first 2 people to ever buy memberships for AC#1, and permanent guest celebs at LibertyCon since I am asked to do all the Steampunk & Internet Publishing panels.
[18:29] #knownspace> Hippy: That's been the experience here
[18:29] #knownspace> SeanS: i would rather do 80mph on the interstate and have my vehicle with me
[18:30] #knownspace> Hippy: So do you think getting to Chattanooga is possible?
[18:30] #knownspace> SeanS: I-75 runs right around it.
[18:30] #knownspace> Dan: Hippy, where is your home base?
[18:30] #knownspace> SeanS: by rail, i am the wrong person to ask
[18:32] #knownspace> Hippy: My home base would be Orlando for this purpose, but I was hoping to go by rail because of the song
[18:33] #knownspace> Hippy: I'm in the mood to do it, so to speak
[18:33] #knownspace> SeanS: why orlando?
[18:33] #knownspace> Hippy: Because my Signficant Other lives there
[18:33] #knownspace> SeanS: good reason
[18:34] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes. It has fringe benefits :)
[18:34] #knownspace> SeanS: I am aware of them. ;)
[18:35] #knownspace> Dan: Orlando to Chattanooga by car = 9 hours driving time @ 75 MPH. A straight shot up HWY 75 the whole way.
[18:35] #knownspace> Hippy: I think it might be better to fly, then
[18:35] #knownspace> Hippy: If I could share the driving 9 hours would be no problem, but I won't make the SO do that
[18:36] #knownspace> SeanS: yeah... about the same difference from here
[18:36] #knownspace> Dan: You'd eeither have to rent a car at the Chattanooga airport or find a bus from the airport to the hotel.
[18:36] #knownspace> SeanS: well, about 6 hours from here
[18:37] #knownspace> Hippy: I can look into that once I work out what hotel to be at
[18:37] #knownspace> Dan: 3 hours from here, but I have to waste an hour navigating Atlanta trafic.
[18:37] #knownspace> Hippy: Although the site says the accommodation fills up fast
[18:37] #knownspace> SeanS: I will sick Julie on it soon... she is good at it.
[18:37] #knownspace> Dan: Hippy, http://www.libertycon.org/hotel.html
[18:38] #knownspace> Hippy: Okay, got that
[18:39] #knownspace> Hippy: I am sceptical about taking the Con's recommendation after my hotel in Reno cost me nearly $300 a night
[18:39] #knownspace> Hippy: There were all these fees they didn't tell you about
[18:40] #knownspace> Hippy: But I will at least purchase a membership on Thursday
[18:40] #knownspace> Dan: Liberty is usually pretty good about saying if there are extra fees.
[18:40] #knownspace> Hippy: WorldCon certainly wasn't!
[18:41] #knownspace> Dan: Liberty is a Family, WorldCon is an Event.
[18:41] #knownspace> SeanS: this will be my first con
[18:41] #knownspace> Hippy: Egad
[18:42] #knownspace> Hippy: I thought you were a real conventionhead
[18:42] #knownspace> SeanS: nope
[18:42] #knownspace> SeanS: never been
[18:42] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, they're good fun if you're not jet-lagged and you know people there
[18:43] #knownspace> SeanS: well, tis only a 5 hour drive away
[18:43] #knownspace> Hippy: So no jet lag? Well, that's good
[18:43] #knownspace> SeanS: and i think I will know some people who I am sure will take me under their wing convention wise
[18:43] #knownspace> Hippy: And you'll know Dan and me
[18:44] #knownspace> Hippy: I'll be at the bar, drinking gimlets
[18:44] #knownspace> SeanS: I am not into gimlets but I am into the bar
[18:44] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, that's that settled :)
[18:45] #knownspace> Hippy: Dan, you may bring people into Our Presence
[18:45] #knownspace> Hippy: Where we shall beguile them with our repartee
[18:47] #knownspace> Dan: We now have room reservations for Liberty!
[18:47] #knownspace> Dan: We'll arrive on the Thursday & check out on the Monday.
[18:48] #knownspace> Dan: Now to book rooms for AnachroCon in Feb.
[18:49] #knownspace> SeanS: never know dan, I may have to pull up a bit of floor in your shower. Just kidding. I will sick Julie at it.
[18:50] #knownspace> Hippy: Does that $50 cover your full membership, or is that just a deposit?
[18:50] #knownspace> Dan: $50 is a full membership.
[18:51] #knownspace> Hippy: Excellent! I shall purchase one forthwith
[18:52] #knownspace> Hippy: Even if I can't make it, it's only $48.18
[18:52] #knownspace> Dan: That covers Con Badge for 1, and whatever goodies the 25th anniversary entails. T-shirts & memoribelia are extra.
[18:52] #knownspace> Hippy: I'm not a big T-shirt man, but I hope I can purchase a bag to put thhings in
[18:53] #knownspace> Dan: I think bags would be had at any shop inside the hotel. The hotel sounds bigger than the town I live in.
[18:54] #knownspace> Hippy: But they arne't souvenirs!
[18:55] #knownspace> Dan: Hippy, beint the 25th anniversary, I should think that there will be an abundance of goodies.
[18:55] #knownspace> Hippy: But that doesn't matter. The fun part is the drinking
[18:55] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, well, good to hear
[18:56] #knownspace> Dan: Usually there are 2 brands of beer in the Con Suite, and loads of alcohol at the room parties.
[18:57] #knownspace> Dan: But this is a special event, so *usual* might not be the limit.
[18:57] #knownspace> Dan: Killians is *usually* one of the brands of free beer.
[18:58] #knownspace> Hippy: I vaguel know that one
[18:58] #knownspace> Hippy: However, it is now 10:00AM here and time for me to mow the lawn, so I shall bdi you all a fond farewell
[18:58] #knownspace> Hippy: Happy birthday to anyone between now and December 8
[18:59] #knownspace> Hippy: See you hopefully in July
[18:59] #knownspace> Dan: Lyn & I usually show up with a couple of cases of Natty Light in a cooler in our room. And usually, we need to buy another case for the Sunday. LOL! How can 2 people drink more than 72 cans of beer in a weekend? That's the magic of being us!
[19:00] #knownspace> Dan: Bye, Hippy! Happy mowing!
[19:00] #knownspace> Hippy: Thanks. It should be fun
[19:12] #knownspace> Dan: OK, booked for LibertyCon in Feb. too! Now we're set for everything except our trip to England next August.
[19:12] #knownspace> Dan: Ack, LibertyCon in July and AnachroCon in Feb.
[19:14] #knownspace> Dan: JTR Conference in August in Petersfield, Hampshire, England in August.
[19:19] #knownspace> Dan: Sean, better make your room reservations and buy your memberships for LibertyCon this weekend. Only 550 guests are going to make the cut!
[19:20] #knownspace> Dan: That's 100 over the usual limit!
[19:20] #knownspace> NickE: gotta go bed
[19:20] #knownspace> Dan: Goodnight, Nick!
[19:20] #knownspace> NickE: night guys
[20:11] #knownspace> Dan: I suppose that we're done for the evening. SIGH!
[21:12] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: What you mean 'we' White Eyes?
[21:13] #knownspace> Dan: Um, Fred, I *am* a Cherokee, LOL!!!
[21:13] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: oops
[21:13] #knownspace> Dan: LOL!!!!!
[21:13] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: where's the 'blush' emoticon?
[21:15] #knownspace> Dan: Hey, I don't make a big deal f it. 'Cause I pass for White. No one outside of family & close friends know that Grandaddy Griffith was full-blooded & 1/4 of Daddy's ancestors in the US were Indians, too.
[21:15] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: R U Dan Hollifield?
[21:17] #knownspace> Dan: I am the last Dan Hollifield that can be traced back to an ancestor who emmigrated from England in the 1700s. I am the last Dan Hollifield in an unbroken line since the 1400s.
[21:17] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: You're my facebook friend Dan Hollifield, more importantly. :)
[21:17] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: Just reading about your Dad. My condolences.
[21:18] #knownspace> Dan: Indeed, and damn proud to be your friend!
[21:18] #knownspace> Dan: Well, Facebook has a way of making me reveal truths I wouldn't otherwise make public.
[21:19] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: not a problem. I'm dealing with the same thing with my Mom.
[21:20] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: Now that I only see you guys once a month, I've lost track of who is behind what nickname here.
[21:20] #knownspace> Dan: My wife has me feeling all sentimental tonight because we spent a couple of hours on the phone today with her oldest daughter, Michelle and our grandson Jamie. He'll be 2 this month!
[21:22] #knownspace> Dan: Dad still has good days when he remembers everything. But those good days are getting further and further between. He's only 74 :( he's only been retired for 2 years!
[21:22] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: How far away do they live?
[21:22] #knownspace> Dan: 4 miles.
[21:23] #knownspace> Dan: I go visit whenever I'm strong enough to stand the sadness.
[21:23] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: ?
[21:24] #knownspace> Dan: Sad because Dad was once Superman, to everyone in the family, and now he's more like a child.
[21:24] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: Oh, sorry, we've got crossover lag
[21:24] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: I was asking how far away Michelle and Jamie live
[21:24] #knownspace> Dan: That's alright. I understand.
[21:25] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: I wondered why it was sad to visit them :)
[21:26] #knownspace> Dan: Oh, Michelle & Jamie are in Virginia, about 600+ miles. I'd visit them in a heartbeat except that Lyn can't stand Michelle's husband/Jamie's father.
[21:26] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: Yeah, Mom's very childlike now. She had a good day yesterday, and we had just adjusted her meds, so I was hopeful it was a trend, but she's having a bad day today.
[21:27] #knownspace> Dan: I'm sorry Fred. But this kind od shit will keep happening. I admire you quite a lot for how much work you put into taking care of your Mom without even thinking about it. You're a good son!
[21:28] #knownspace> Dan: I wish I had more of the strength you display.
[21:28] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: Thanks. I try. I hate that the economy keeps me from giving her as good a life as I should be able to.
[21:29] #knownspace> Dan: Economy be damned! You do what you are able. That counts!
[21:29] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: I want Carlos Wu's autodoc.
[21:29] #knownspace> Dan: I can't even go home withot breaking down into tears. I don't possess your strength.
[21:30] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: Hell, at this point I'd settle for the crippled medkit from Teela's flycycle.
[21:31] #knownspace> Dan: I'd settle for convincing Dad to smoke a joint, since THC has been proven to reverse the effects of Alzheimers! LOL!
[21:32] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: well, inhibit, not reverse
[21:34] #knownspace> Dan: Well, I tend to remember the more optomistic reports that I've read. But still, what's the bloody difference between not being able to remember the past ad being stoned? I mean, really, LOL!
[21:36] #knownspace> Dan: I've read that cannibis combats Alzheimers, as does caffine, as does inhuman amounts of sex, as does living at high altitudes... What can the average person believe?
[21:37] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: they aren't even certain it's alzheimer's. she could have vascular dementia from the strokes.
[21:38] #knownspace> Dan: Oxygen deprivation? Now that really is shitty!
[21:40] mikembley has joined #knownspace
[21:41] #knownspace> Dan: Mike, Hello.
[21:42] #knownspace> mikembley: hey
[21:42] #knownspace> Akiraa: some people swear by magic mushrooms or LSD as well
[21:42] #knownspace> Akiraa: hey, to each his own :)
[21:42] #knownspace> Dan: Fred and I were talking about our parent's medical conditions. Kinda boring to non-combatants, I know. LOL!
[21:42] #knownspace> Akiraa: by and by, tobacco is probably the most addictive drug known
[21:42] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: http://vimeo.com/31158841
[21:43] #knownspace> Dan: I tend to believe that anything that keeps a human brain active and engaged is good for any elderly persons.
[21:44] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: Yeah, if it's vascular, the treatment is to keep her engaged
[21:44] #knownspace> Akiraa: those old people playing chess in the park, they're cheating the pension system :p
[21:44] #knownspace> mikembley: Thats one big orgy.
[21:45] #knownspace> Akiraa: cheating by keeping their brains active and not dying sooner
[21:46] #knownspace> Dan: Ain't cheating if they stay alive, By all the Gods.
[21:48] #knownspace> Akiraa: by the Gods, they're not, but by politics they certainly are
[21:49] #knownspace> Dan: Politics, the opium of the power-mad.
[21:50] #knownspace> Akiraa: in Europe, things are unraveling in that direction
[21:50] #knownspace> Dan: Sorry, politics is the salvation of the retarded.
[21:51] #knownspace> Dan: The only reason to become a politician is because you are a retard with delusions of normalicy.
[21:52] #knownspace> Akiraa: or if you're a hustler and swindler
[21:52] #knownspace> Dan: REAL people know politicians are just cirminals that are too stupid to be accept into the MAFIA.
[21:52] #knownspace> Akiraa: politics is just the legal way to steal
[21:52] #knownspace> Dan: accepted
[21:53] #knownspace> Akiraa: the mafia is an organization too small to call itself government
[21:53] #knownspace> Dan: Thus the distinctions of organized crime into "Politics, or the Private Sector."
[21:54] #knownspace> Dan: Yes, that's the only thing that makes he Mafia respectable. They don't engage in politics beyone bribing elected officials.
[21:55] #knownspace> Dan: Too many typos, LOL!
[21:55] #knownspace> Akiraa: this is awesome http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYEgq1bweN4
[21:55] #knownspace> Akiraa: khan academy doing videos on seti
[21:57] #knownspace> Akiraa: astronomy & cosmology
[21:57] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: mispronouncing SETI was the exact moment the movie Contact jumped the shark
[21:57] #knownspace> Dan: I can respect the Mafia, they're only criminals. I can't respect politicians. There needs to be a manditory death penalty for running for public office. Becoming a candidate for any office proves that one is too power-mad to be allowed to exist.
[21:57] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: and it happens, what, 3 minutes in?
[21:59] #knownspace> Akiraa: Dan, there are respectable politicians too, like Ron Paul
[21:59] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: okay, somebody tell me who here is whom?
[21:59] #knownspace> Akiraa: Rand Paul, his son, while not strictly a libertarian, is ok too
[21:59] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: I know Dan and Sean
[21:59] #knownspace> Akiraa: Daniel Hannan in the UK (UKIP party)
[21:59] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: jonmanyjars is Dennis Nedry is Mark Firestone?
[22:00] #knownspace> mikembley: yes
[22:00] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: and I guess mike mbley is, well, self explanatory
[22:00] #knownspace> mikembley: :)
[22:07] #knownspace> Dan: think
[22:09] #knownspace> Dan: I'm really just this guy that wants everyone to live however they choose. That makes me popular with the LGBT, BDSM, and Poly friends that I have.
[22:10] #knownspace> Dan: Oh, and I also write SF and music a lot, too. LOL!
[22:13] #knownspace> Dan: 872 listeners to my 50 songs on SoundCloud since July 1st this year! 33 since last Sunday night.
[22:15] #knownspace> Dan: 5 million readers of my online fiction since 1997, but mst of those were for stories that I've pulled offline last year so that I can rewrite them for (hopefully) eventual publication in the pro markets.
[22:16] #knownspace> Dan: Not really impressive stats, in the real world.
[22:17] #knownspace> Dan: But they make me feel better about my work. :)
[22:21] #knownspace> Dan: A real writer with 5 million buyers in 16 years is rather low key, to my way of thinking. I'd rank somewhere beneath Terrance Dicks and Jude the Obscure. LOL!
[22:22] #knownspace> Dan: About even with a single year's viewers of Rock Horror Picture Show, in fact.
[22:22] #knownspace> Dan: Rocky
[22:22] #knownspace> Dan: Sheesh, I hate my typos!
[22:44] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: Do people still watch RHPS?
[22:45] #knownspace> Dan: Hell, yeah!
[22:46] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: It's such a part of the distant past for me
[22:46] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: we used to go at midnight just as the crazyness began
[22:46] #knownspace> Dan: Part of my every day life, like any music I enjoy.
[22:47] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: Well, now you've gone and done it
[22:47] #knownspace> Dan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4s0nzsU1Wg The *Other* national anthem of the US.
[22:47] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: just fired it up in iTunes
[22:48] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: science fiction double feature
[22:48] #knownspace> Dan: Doctor X will build a Creature...
[22:48] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: lol
[22:48] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: coming up
[22:48] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: NOW
[22:48] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: you were about 10 seconds ahead
[22:48] #knownspace> mikembley: Beavis & Butthead is awesome, Watching the new ones
[22:49] #knownspace> Dan: I'm always ahead of my time, LOL!
[22:52] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: oh, janet
[22:53] #knownspace> Dan: Be Just and Fear Not...
[22:54] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: just saw a chinese place nearby called 'yummy yummy'
[22:55] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: wonder if they have a menu online
[22:55] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: jesus
[22:55] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: I typed 'yum' into google and it autofilled 'yummy yummy scottsdale'
[22:57] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: reviews are grim
[23:04] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: antici
[23:04] #knownspace> Dan: ................Pation!
[23:05] #knownspace> Dan: Try Phantom of the Paradise sometime, for a change of pace from RHPS. Another of my iconic movies from my College years.
[23:06] #knownspace> Dan: Actually, POTP is closer to the music I write nowadays, but don't tell my fans! LOL!
[23:06] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: big phantom fan
[23:06] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: saw it in the theater first run
[23:06] #knownspace> Dan: Me too!
[23:06] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: got the phantompalooza DVD
[23:06] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: lent Beef my tire guage once ")
[23:06] #knownspace> Dan: Had the soundtrack LP a year before the movie hit the theaters.
[23:07] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: lol
[23:08] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: saw jessica harper in Inserts
[23:08] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: saw Paul Williams in concert a couple times, but he doesn't do Phantom stuff :(
[23:08] #knownspace> Dan: I saw her and Paul Williams on an episode of The Hardy Boys, LOL!
[23:08] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: heh, yeah
[23:09] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: I'm disappointed I can't get more of Paul's old albums online
[23:09] #knownspace> Dan: Methuselah has nothing on me.
[23:10] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: saw williams in concert opening for Olivia Neutron Bomb
[23:10] #knownspace> Dan: She must have doe a monumental performance.
[23:11] #knownspace> Fred_via_Flash: he went on Johnny Carson to promote it and said before each show he'd go to her dressing room, drop to his knees, and say "Please, Olivia, just once, no one will ever know!"