2014-03-01 11:05:52 : "johnmanyjars" left the channel.
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2014-03-01 11:17:43 : "CrazyEddy" left the channel.
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2014-03-01 12:10:53 : <fredskue_> THREE HOURT 'TIL CHAT!!!!
2014-03-01 12:11:43 : "johnmanyjars" left the channel.
Welcome to #knownspace!!
2014-03-01 12:32:41 : <fredskue_> TWO AND A HALF HOURS 'TIL CHAT!!!!
2014-03-01 13:31:40 : <sean> watching vietnam in hd on the history channel. my one recurring thought, tho, comes during commercials. With the nightmarish side effects of the drugs advertised, do any of them actually sell?
2014-03-01 13:32:12 : <sean> i mean i would rather deal with with the actual problem than bleeding out through the eyes.
2014-03-01 13:38:19 : "CrazyEddy" joined the channel.
2014-03-01 13:42:45 : "NickE" joined the channel.
2014-03-01 13:43:04 : <NickE> hey peeps
2014-03-01 13:43:38 : <NickE> will be afk for a bit to eat shortly
2014-03-01 13:44:40 : <sean> hey nick.
2014-03-01 13:46:12 : <NickE> hi Sean. Dinner literally just dishing up, so wwil be back in a bit
2014-03-01 13:46:54 : "johnmanyjars" joined the channel.
2014-03-01 14:02:07 : <fredskue_> ONE HOUR 'TIL CHAT!!!!
2014-03-01 14:02:10 : <fredskue_> boy am I bored
2014-03-01 14:02:32 : <fredskue_> sean, yeah, those side effects ...
2014-03-01 14:04:59 : <NickE> omnomnom
2014-03-01 14:05:08 : <NickE> hey Fred
2014-03-01 14:05:29 : <NickE> hi Mark
2014-03-01 14:17:50 : <johnmanyjars> hi nick
2014-03-01 14:18:12 : <johnmanyjars> well, we've survived moving all the servers at my work to the new building, setting up new network stuff, etc.
2014-03-01 14:18:15 : <johnmanyjars> phew
2014-03-01 14:19:15 : <sean> always fun
2014-03-01 14:42:47 : <fredskue_> ONE QUARTER HOUR 'TIL CHAT!
2014-03-01 14:43:42 : <fredskue_> I *was* going to run errands first, but the sky gods had other ideas.
2014-03-01 14:47:04 : <fredskue_> I was going to look at that phone Mark's trying to force me into
2014-03-01 14:55:00 : <fredskue_> FIVE MINUTES 'TIL CHAT!
2014-03-01 15:00:28 : <sean> ok..... GO!
2014-03-01 15:02:54 : "Hippy" joined the channel.
2014-03-01 15:03:14 : <Hippy> Good afternoon, everyone
2014-03-01 15:03:20 : <NickE> good timin Hippy
2014-03-01 15:03:32 : <sean> hey, roomie.
2014-03-01 15:05:36 : <Hippy> In what sense was it good timing?
2014-03-01 15:05:41 : <Hippy> Hi there, roomie
2014-03-01 15:05:58 : <NickE> seans said ok ..Go
2014-03-01 15:06:07 : <NickE> and there you wree
2014-03-01 15:06:09 : <NickE> were
2014-03-01 15:06:16 : <Hippy> I have been looking into WorldCon and it is looking very unlikely that I will be gracing the shores of Old Blighty this August :(
2014-03-01 15:06:23 : <NickE> aw
2014-03-01 15:06:57 : <Hippy> I can't find any accommodation! All London is booked out as far as I can discover
2014-03-01 15:07:48 : <sean> i said go because fred has been counting down start time since 11am
2014-03-01 15:07:49 : <Hippy> If I were to commute in from Prague I'd probably be okay
2014-03-01 15:08:01 : <fredskue_> I thought WorldCon was in Anaheim?
2014-03-01 15:08:10 : <NickE> nope London
2014-03-01 15:08:11 : <Hippy> Ah...
2014-03-01 15:08:31 : <Hippy> London is the Anaheim of England
2014-03-01 15:08:49 : <fredskue_> oh. WonderCon
2014-03-01 15:08:54 : <fredskue_> is in Anaheim
2014-03-01 15:09:10 : <Hippy> How Disneyfied of it
2014-03-01 15:09:16 : <fredskue_> friend of mine couldn't get but one day ticket for ComicCon
2014-03-01 15:09:23 : <fredskue_> so he's doing WonderCon instead
2014-03-01 15:09:35 : <Hippy> ComicCon is insane
2014-03-01 15:09:51 : <fredskue_> yes, but he's been going for 40 years
2014-03-01 15:10:29 : "dmac" joined the channel.
2014-03-01 15:10:33 : "dmac" left the channel.
2014-03-01 15:10:44 : <fredskue_> hi dmac
2014-03-01 15:10:48 : "dmac" joined the channel.
2014-03-01 15:10:59 : <Hippy> Just light up a room and leave, dmac
2014-03-01 15:11:02 : <dmac> Hi guys.
2014-03-01 15:11:06 : <NickE> hey
2014-03-01 15:11:18 : <dmac> Having problems signing on today.
2014-03-01 15:11:39 : "Larry" joined the channel.
2014-03-01 15:11:40 : <NickE> I'm not doing a hotel
2014-03-01 15:11:47 : <dmac> Hi Larry
2014-03-01 15:12:05 : <Larry> Hi gang
2014-03-01 15:12:10 : <NickE> going to commute in from my brothers
2014-03-01 15:12:13 : <NickE> Hi Larry
2014-03-01 15:12:19 : <sean> Hey, Larry, sorry we missed you Thursday.
2014-03-01 15:12:22 : "ronn" joined the channel.
2014-03-01 15:12:30 : <NickE> hi ronn
2014-03-01 15:12:49 : <Larry> what happened Thursday? I was at LASFS.
2014-03-01 15:13:07 : "Jim" joined the channel.
2014-03-01 15:13:27 : <ronn> hi
2014-03-01 15:13:30 : <sean> well, whichever day you popped in for a few minutes.
2014-03-01 15:13:42 : <Jim> hi
2014-03-01 15:13:58 : <Larry> oh yeah. Nobody there, so I found entertainment elsewhere.
2014-03-01 15:14:04 : <sean> Hi, Jim, Ronn
2014-03-01 15:14:58 : <sean> hi dmac
2014-03-01 15:15:12 : <dmac> hey sean.
2014-03-01 15:15:16 : <Larry> it's raining. We need it.
2014-03-01 15:15:35 : <Jim> better rain than snow
2014-03-01 15:16:13 : <Larry> snow, hah! In California we keep the snow where it won't bother anyone.
2014-03-01 15:16:22 : <sean> supposed to start raining here tonight and by sunday night turn into wintry mix then snow.
2014-03-01 15:16:24 : <dmac> Larry, do you ever look at the Vandenberg weather radar website. See what's coming your way?
2014-03-01 15:16:42 : <Larry> never did.
2014-03-01 15:17:01 : <Larry> I do have a weather display.
2014-03-01 15:17:12 : <dmac> http://radar.weather.gov/radar.php?rid=vbx&product=N0R&overlay=11101111&loop=no
2014-03-01 15:17:39 : <Hippy> According to the display on my window, it's blue skies in Orlando, with the possibility of more weather to come
2014-03-01 15:18:40 : <sean> the joke in kentucky is that if you dont like the weather, stick around for a day. 54F now. Low for monday is 5F
2014-03-01 15:19:14 : <ronn> Larry, are you where you may be in the path of the mudslides they keep talking about on the news?
2014-03-01 15:19:17 : <NickE> In Iceland they say just wait a couple of hours :-)
2014-03-01 15:19:20 : <Jim> .weather KEKN
2014-03-01 15:19:21 : <Outsider> Overcast â˜, 42.8â„‰ (6â„ƒ), 30.14in (1017mb), Light breeze 6kt (â†‘) - KEKN 19:51Z
2014-03-01 15:19:35 : <fredskue_> Hi Larry
2014-03-01 15:19:36 : <Larry> the joke in California is that tomorrow is just like today.
2014-03-01 15:20:08 : <Hippy> Sounds like Sydney
2014-03-01 15:20:17 : <dmac> which is how it should be as long as it's good weather
2014-03-01 15:20:25 : <Larry> rule, not joke. Not amusing.
2014-03-01 15:20:26 : <ronn> Hippy, it's always nice when there's more weather to come, as the alternative is no weather to come . . .
2014-03-01 15:20:51 : <fredskue_> we're abruptly underwater here
2014-03-01 15:20:57 : <Hippy> Indeed, ronn - or is that only because we've evolved in weather?
2014-03-01 15:21:02 : <Larry> scary thought. Weather forecast: nothing.
2014-03-01 15:21:07 : <fredskue_> https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t31/1795370_10152317657281264_359427246_o.jpg
2014-03-01 15:21:39 : <Hippy> Couldn't've said it better myself, Fred
2014-03-01 15:21:39 : <ronn> Hippy: no weather to come = no future . . .
2014-03-01 15:22:03 : <dmac> Maybe on Pluto
2014-03-01 15:22:17 : <Hippy> Well, yes - I suppose if we all virtualise ourselves we could have an existence without weather
2014-03-01 15:22:21 : <sean> unless a ship lands
2014-03-01 15:22:38 : <dmac> that wouldn't be weather
2014-03-01 15:22:57 : <sean> sure it would... a fire storm. ;)
2014-03-01 15:22:58 : <dmac> weather depends on energy differentials
2014-03-01 15:23:11 : <dmac> ahhhhh
2014-03-01 15:23:33 : <Hippy> Weather in the Smoke Ring...
2014-03-01 15:24:03 : <dmac> both gravitational and heat differentials there
2014-03-01 15:24:30 : <Hippy> Plus differences in moisture content of the air
2014-03-01 15:25:01 : <Larry> I tried to predict weather in the Smoke Ring. An Analog reader says I was wronr. Trees would be shorter and would tumble.
2014-03-01 15:25:52 : <Hippy> But aren't the leaves of the trees sort of plumes? Evolution would make them into aerofoils to stablise the tree
2014-03-01 15:26:14 : <Larry> good point, Hippy
2014-03-01 15:26:22 : <dmac> wouldn't both be possible?
2014-03-01 15:26:39 : "SolBelter_Spike" joined the channel.
2014-03-01 15:26:39 : <Hippy> I can't see how they would put a size limit on the trees, apart from a kind of Roche's limit that would eventually pull them apart
2014-03-01 15:27:03 : <Jim> Spike!
2014-03-01 15:27:11 : <Hippy> Holy....I thought Solbelter was a bot!
2014-03-01 15:27:18 : <dmac> air pressure would limit their length
2014-03-01 15:27:29 : <Larry> The math was beyond me too. But Robert Forward looked at earsy version and said I wasn't crazy.
2014-03-01 15:27:31 : <Hippy> Go on, dmac
2014-03-01 15:27:47 : <SolBelter_Spike> n aw Hippy ... :) Hi Jim.
2014-03-01 15:27:52 : <dmac> too far min or too far out the air pressure would be too low
2014-03-01 15:27:56 : <Larry> early
2014-03-01 15:28:19 : <Hippy> Well, yes, but you've got a wide margin there, dmac
2014-03-01 15:28:30 : <dmac> I agree
2014-03-01 15:28:46 : <SolBelter_Spike> an 'earsy version' is the audiobook manuscript
2014-03-01 15:29:52 : <Hippy> I think young trees would be small and would tumble due to that size, but as they grew they would stabilise. Now, as shown in - er, the second book - tumbling trees can move nutrients around, so they would stay tumbling. After they get big enough, thye moment arm would make them slow their tumbling so they don't break
2014-03-01 15:29:53 : <ronn> I went with the eysey version . . .
2014-03-01 15:30:33 : <ronn> eyesey?
2014-03-01 15:30:53 : <dmac> Hippy, when you say small, what about the size of a redwood tree?
2014-03-01 15:31:31 : <Hippy> Small by Smoke Ring standards. I picture an integral tree seed as being about the size of a coconut
2014-03-01 15:31:49 : <Hippy> Sequoia seeds are some of the smallest plant seeds
2014-03-01 15:32:01 : <dmac> why so big?
2014-03-01 15:32:47 : <Hippy> It just seems silly to make a tree that's 50 miles long have a really tiny seed, but I suppose they could be the size of a sperm
2014-03-01 15:33:14 : <dmac> tree seeds as manna from heaven?
2014-03-01 15:33:15 : <Hippy> They dont' have to store any energy to grow out of the soil so they could start photosynthesising straight away
2014-03-01 15:34:12 : <dmac> so they'd unfold leaves or sprout them.
2014-03-01 15:34:16 : <ronn> I was about to make the point in your addendum: no apparent correlation between seed size and size of grown tree for Earth plants.
2014-03-01 15:34:35 : <Hippy> Nope. Look at an avocado pip
2014-03-01 15:34:42 : <Larry> Integral trees don't need much structural strength. It's all tension.
2014-03-01 15:35:22 : <Larry> That's why the cotton candy look.
2014-03-01 15:35:57 : <Hippy> I was thinking that a spherical seed offers the most surface area for the mass and volume, so no leaves to start off with. They might grow leaves to catch the breeze and fly away further from the mother tree, like sycamore seeds
2014-03-01 15:36:30 : <dmac> is a coconut one of the largest seeds?
2014-03-01 15:36:42 : <Hippy> 'Sails'; on the seed give it a chance to find a puddle to get water
2014-03-01 15:36:59 : <ronn> (The last was in reply to Hippy. Dunno fit's because I'm using the irc.laryniven.net client or something else I've got going, but the chat buffer is a lot slOwer than my typing today and keeps omitting keystrokes. :(
2014-03-01 15:37:10 : <Hippy> I think the largest is a thing called a 'coco de mer' which is a bit bigger than a large pumpkin
2014-03-01 15:37:19 : <sean> makes sense... i remember a comment like In the smoke ring, even a fish can fly.
2014-03-01 15:37:38 : <Larry> spherical seed offers LEAST surface area for mass and volume.
2014-03-01 15:38:00 : <Hippy> Oops. So it does. Okay, forget that
2014-03-01 15:38:18 : <ronn> Hippy: it's called that 'cuz if it hits your coco you will be merde . . .
2014-03-01 15:38:23 : <dmac> coco de mer is a palm seed
2014-03-01 15:38:50 : <Hippy> L'OL, ronn
2014-03-01 15:40:11 : <dmac> a fractal structure would maximize energy reception, wouldn't it?
2014-03-01 15:40:48 : <Hippy> So, IT seeds wouldn't be spherical - they would probably be fan-shaped or sail-shaped, since they're not dragging any weight around - negligible weight. Fractal shapes, like on Destiny
2014-03-01 15:41:05 : <Hippy> GMTA, dmac
2014-03-01 15:41:05 : <Larry> yes, dmac. also maximize possible damage from environment. it's a tradeoff.
2014-03-01 15:41:31 : <ronn> Hipp: That's the French spelling, correct?
2014-03-01 15:41:44 : <Hippy> Okay, so the seeds don't want to be eaten by herbivorous fish, so they are hard like a coconut but winged like a sycamore seed
2014-03-01 15:41:52 : <SolBelter_Spike> notices Hippy's mass/volume error and wonders if he's a bot ... :)
2014-03-01 15:41:53 : <Hippy> Mais oui, ronn
2014-03-01 15:42:12 : <Hippy> I sometimes think I am, Spike
AFK briefly to check on suspiciously quiet dogs
grins at Hippy
2014-03-01 15:42:54 : <ronn> Hippy: so basically the ball usd in Quidditch? ;)
2014-03-01 15:43:17 : <sean> the golden snitch
2014-03-01 15:44:07 : <ronn> yep. not far from being a wiged cocoanut .. .
2014-03-01 15:44:34 : <ronn> "winged" Darned keybord or whatever it is
2014-03-01 15:45:59 : <ronn> Larry: I've had a question on THE GOLIATH STONE if you're willing?
2014-03-01 15:46:26 : <dmac> sure
2014-03-01 15:46:41 : <Larry> yes, ronn?
2014-03-01 15:47:12 : <dmac> oops
2014-03-01 15:48:20 : <Larry> we're all waiting for Ronn to drop the other shoe.
2014-03-01 15:48:53 : <SolBelter_Spike> ...from his gripping hand
2014-03-01 15:49:32 : <sean> dang... been a while since i read mote. now I will have to drag it off the shelf again.
2014-03-01 15:50:15 : <ronn> The Rukh is described (in brief) as lokig like a cross between a Blackbird and a Valkyrie. Are there any pictures or more detailed description available? (Sory, cat is trying to demand attention by threatening to pul the power cable out of the compuer.)
nods at sean - 'other shoe' is so clearly a biped's phrase.
back. The present canine danger is ended
2014-03-01 15:51:11 : <ronn> Yeah: what would a Puppeteer wait for?
2014-03-01 15:51:47 : <SolBelter_Spike> canine dangers and 'catnip' menaces ... start of a story...
2014-03-01 15:52:02 : <Larry> I don't have even a good mental picture of the Rukh. I/we should raise the topic with Harrington. Early GOLIATH is mostly mine; later is mostly his.
2014-03-01 15:52:46 : <Hippy> Yes, there are a few concepts of yours that I was hjappy to see written into a story, Larry
2014-03-01 15:52:58 : <Hippy> Hjappy is happier than happy
2014-03-01 15:53:18 : <Larry> puppeteer wouldn't wait for anything. run now.
2014-03-01 15:53:24 : <SolBelter_Spike> 'slap-Hjappy'
2014-03-01 15:53:50 : <sean> or for an insane puppeteer, the striking hoof.
2014-03-01 15:54:08 : <Hippy> It's clear that Larry and ronn remember more of 'The Goliath Stone' than Ido. Where did the Rukh appear?
2014-03-01 15:54:59 : <SolBelter_Spike> sean, another '3rd alternative'
2014-03-01 15:55:08 : <Larry> Rukh was May's airplane. May upgraded it to a spaceplane.
2014-03-01 15:55:41 : <Hippy> Thanks, Larry. I can see that I will have to reread Goliath Stone
2014-03-01 16:00:16 : <Hippy> So, anyway, all of London seems booked out in August, so WorldCon may be difficult, if not impossible for me. My nearest relatives are in Dorset, so a commute in is probably not an option
2014-03-01 16:00:42 : <sean> I guess I will have to acquire and read Goliath Stone so I can be a part of the conversation. ;)
2014-03-01 16:01:05 : <Hippy> I did that and I can't remember enough to ask intelligent questions :)
2014-03-01 16:01:10 : <Larry> In London I'm rooming with my nephew. I didn't act quickly enough.
2014-03-01 16:01:22 : <Hippy> Same here, Larry
2014-03-01 16:02:39 : <NickE> oh good, youo
2014-03-01 16:02:43 : <NickE> youo
2014-03-01 16:02:46 : <NickE> ahahgasg
2014-03-01 16:02:55 : <sean> I need to go ahead and register with LibertyCon but it is not that pressing.
2014-03-01 16:02:56 : <NickE> you are going then ;-0
2014-03-01 16:03:16 : <NickE> (typing skills not hot today)
2014-03-01 16:03:40 : <NickE> rooming with my brother and commuting in
jokingly wonders when NickE's typing skills are really hot. :)
2014-03-01 16:04:02 : <Hippy> Where does your brother live, NIck?
2014-03-01 16:04:11 : <ronn> Thanks, I wasn't sure whose idea it was. I'm asking b/c in the spirit of "great minds think alike" way back in the 1970s I was playing around with a design that was basically . . . a cross between the XB-70 and the SR-71, and when I read that description (on page 252, Hippy) I naturally wondered if we had thought along the same lines . . . (NOT at all a suggestion anyone saw mine, 'cuz the story I was working on never went anywhere :(
2014-03-01 16:04:42 : <NickE> Orpington - about 15 miles from middle of London
2014-03-01 16:04:58 : <NickE> (thansk mate...:-)
2014-03-01 16:05:12 : <sean> lol
2014-03-01 16:05:26 : <Hippy> Hmm. That's seems feasible...not that I will impose on your brother, but I can look at somewhere in that radius
2014-03-01 16:06:11 : <NickE> well, he'll have a full house with me and 2 of my adult kids
2014-03-01 16:06:17 : <Hippy> Friends of mine used to run a pub in Whitechapel, but sadly they don't now
2014-03-01 16:06:41 : <NickE> as long as it's close to mainline station
thinks that WorldCon may be back on the agenda - of course, the cost of membership has now gone up :(
2014-03-01 16:07:01 : <SolBelter_Spike> ronn, thx for Rukh page ref. Like sean, I haven't read it yet.
2014-03-01 16:07:34 : <NickE> yeah by 10 quid
2014-03-01 16:08:15 : <NickE> - still not sure what days I can manage, so not booked yet (but was never going to be able to a fford a hotel this time)
2014-03-01 16:08:29 : <Hippy> Oh... Well, that's not much, even on my third-world currency
2014-03-01 16:09:09 : <Hippy> One place there wanted Â£169 a night!
2014-03-01 16:09:31 : <Hippy> ...which is a lot on my third-world currency
2014-03-01 16:09:32 : <sean> try kayak.com ;)
2014-03-01 16:10:35 : <sean> but with worldcon, i really cant imagine an empty hotel room.
2014-03-01 16:10:49 : <NickE> ouch
2014-03-01 16:11:05 : <NickE> hence the bunking up and commutiing
2014-03-01 16:11:21 : <NickE> even with train and tube fares, its cheaper
2014-03-01 16:11:22 : <Hippy> I always thought London was cluttered with hotels, but it seems not :)
2014-03-01 16:11:43 : <NickE> mid August -0 height of tourist season
2014-03-01 16:12:05 : <NickE> Oxford is as bad
2014-03-01 16:12:26 : <Hippy> Yes...why do the Cons do that? Why can't we do mid-January in Manaus or something really cheap like that?
2014-03-01 16:13:28 : <Larry> in most places, tourist season is when the place is habitable. we live on a marginally habitable planet.
2014-03-01 16:13:58 : <Hippy> Hmm...that's a point, Larry
2014-03-01 16:14:05 : "xihr" left the channel.
2014-03-01 16:15:14 : <dmac> so tourist season in LA is only when it's not raining or shaking? :)
2014-03-01 16:16:17 : <SolBelter_Spike> I had been going to joke about icebreakers, dogsleds, and camels to cheap places, but Larry generalizes the point well.
2014-03-01 16:17:20 : <Hippy> Well, I am voting Damascus for 2016 - that should be cheap
2014-03-01 16:17:46 : <Hippy> Or Rio, after the Olympics has been at it
2014-03-01 16:17:55 : <ronn> If Earth is "marginally habitable," what would be better for hman and the rest of the ecosystem that seems to developed/adapted to live here?
2014-03-01 16:18:30 : <sean> do they even know what sci fi is in Damascus?
2014-03-01 16:18:37 : <Hippy> Somewhere warmer, I suppose
2014-03-01 16:19:04 : <Hippy> Sci fi in Damascus right now is running water, electricity, clean food...but it may improve by 2016
2014-03-01 16:19:14 : <SolBelter_Spike> ronn, a lot of us wondered about spaces back in 1960s; I always wondered about the X-15 orbit scheme, but the SR-71 was a tempting springboard.
2014-03-01 16:19:33 : <SolBelter_Spike> about spaceplanes^
2014-03-01 16:19:46 : "xihr" joined the channel.
AFK briefly for an unspecifiable purpose
2014-03-01 16:20:03 : <sean> kind of what i figured.... i can picture vendors in Damascus holding a pipe and yelling plumbing... get your plumbing here
2014-03-01 16:20:28 : "ronn" left the channel.
2014-03-01 16:22:45 : <sean> oh well... so much for my History of the World Part 1 joke.
guffaws I missed the ref, sean.
2014-03-01 16:23:58 : <fredskue_> Introducing Mary-Margaret Humes
2014-03-01 16:23:59 : <fredskue_> sigh
2014-03-01 16:24:34 : <dmac> fredskue: I'm missing the reference.
2014-03-01 16:24:52 : <sean> well, i did not follow up with the 'pipe the shit right out of your house'
2014-03-01 16:25:00 : <sean> the girl in history of the world
2014-03-01 16:25:06 : <dmac> okay
nods as well.
2014-03-01 16:26:27 : "ronn" joined the channel.
2014-03-01 16:26:33 : <sean> wb, ronn
2014-03-01 16:27:20 : <ronn> Drat. Trying to fix slow typing problem & broke sumthing. :(
back. The unspecified purpose was achieved
2014-03-01 16:27:36 : <SolBelter_Spike> wb, ronn. I had commented that the SR-71 had made a tempting springboard for a spaceplane
2014-03-01 16:28:10 : <Larry> ronn, hope it was gear rather than a bone.
2014-03-01 16:28:11 : <SolBelter_Spike> in fiction and speculation
2014-03-01 16:29:49 : <Larry> SR-71 was wonderful. Imagining something better was easy.
2014-03-01 16:30:46 : <ronn> Spike: yes. And the XB-70 is also unusual enough looking that both naturally inspire the imagination to extrapolate.
2014-03-01 16:31:07 : <sean> SR-71=awesome plane. I feel there is no way they would of retired it unless there was something better out there.
2014-03-01 16:31:10 : <Larry> Aldo Spadoni showed at LASFS last night. Slide show. Lots of wonderful and stupid spacecraft that got designed but never built.
2014-03-01 16:31:28 : <SolBelter_Spike> Love that Kelly Freas ASF cover of it. 'Hawk Among the Sparrows' Dean McLaughlin
2014-03-01 16:32:01 : <SolBelter_Spike> Absolutely, sean!
2014-03-01 16:35:02 : <SolBelter_Spike> http://jimvanpelt.livejournal.com/191228.html?thread=1203452
2014-03-01 16:35:23 : <ronn> Today for the first time in a while I'm trying to run the irc.larryniven.net client in a Google Chrome tab, and I think it doesn't like the resource usage with the other tabs I already had open for something I was working on earlier. (stuff I started before losing the net formost of the past week due to the storm
2014-03-01 16:35:31 : <SolBelter_Spike> for Kelly's cover.
2014-03-01 16:36:23 : <SolBelter_Spike> My irc input field keeps erasing what i type ...
2014-03-01 16:36:27 : <ronn> Larry: I'd have liked to see that slidshow!
2014-03-01 16:36:42 : <sean> I have not tried the flash client in chrome. I have run chrome and just dont like the look of it.
2014-03-01 16:37:29 : <ronn> Spike: Mine jst types so slow todyitdrops keystrokes.
2014-03-01 16:37:38 : <SolBelter_Spike> IK'm using Mozilla Firefox withGHostery and AdBlocker.
2014-03-01 16:37:54 : <ronn> "just" "today"
2014-03-01 16:38:40 : <SolBelter_Spike> YHes, ronn, today my inefficient input is worse too.
2014-03-01 16:38:46 : <Hippy> All this network talk reminds me that I wanted to ask if anyone knew about VPN's. I'm trying to fool www.abc.net.au/iview into thinking I'm in Australia so I can watch my shows
2014-03-01 16:38:58 : <SolBelter_Spike> but was present before.
2014-03-01 16:39:36 : <ronn> I usually use Chatzilla in Firefox for these chats but already was usig Chrome and both togehr really eat resorces sometimes.
2014-03-01 16:39:38 : <sean> Hippy, I will answer that question but not in the chat
2014-03-01 16:39:55 : <Hippy> Cool!
2014-03-01 16:40:31 : <SolBelter_Spike> I had always hoped we actally built that Mach-6 pulse-detonation Aurora ...
2014-03-01 16:40:53 : <dmac> are you sure we didn't?
2014-03-01 16:40:53 : <Larry> Lunchtime. Fare you all well. BTW, I've had no problems with connections today.
2014-03-01 16:40:58 : <sean> Spike, whatever it is called, I really do not doubt it is there.
2014-03-01 16:41:03 : <dmac> Bye Larry
2014-03-01 16:41:11 : <sean> thanks for dropping in Larry
2014-03-01 16:41:13 : "Larry" left the channel.
2014-03-01 16:41:16 : <Hippy> "Bye, Larry. Have a good lunch!
2014-03-01 16:41:29 : <Hippy> Dang. Missed him.
2014-03-01 16:41:32 : <SolBelter_Spike> seeya!
2014-03-01 16:41:48 : <fredskue_> Larry has left the building
2014-03-01 16:41:49 : <sean> ok, Hippy... I did not want to say that I will answer that question when Larry leaves
2014-03-01 16:42:14 : <Hippy> Ah, fair enough.
2014-03-01 16:42:19 : <sean> the easiest way to do what you want it use a dynamic proxy from oz
2014-03-01 16:42:24 : <SolBelter_Spike> the other argument is that satviews replaced planes.
2014-03-01 16:42:35 : <sean> do you have a friend there that runs linux?
2014-03-01 16:42:49 : <dmac> if satviews replaced planes why do we have drones?
2014-03-01 16:43:15 : <SolBelter_Spike> Drones for close-in views
2014-03-01 16:43:17 : <sean> I can not see a sat view from a couple hundred miles ever replacing a plane
2014-03-01 16:43:54 : <Hippy> Nope, no-one that I know of, Sean
2014-03-01 16:44:03 : <sean> oooh... would a pc in new zealand be able to access Oz websites?
2014-03-01 16:44:04 : <ronn> Hippy: Since the local ABC affiliates (Ch. 33 & 40) have such a weak signal right here, I have to watch everything fom them on-line. No fun that at the first of the year they went thewayof Fox and now togetthe shows the day after they air yo hae to sign up with a cable provider or the like. Greed messes up everything . . .
2014-03-01 16:44:23 : <Hippy> That's why I went with the VPN mode, but the company says they have no plans to get an Australian server to mask my IP address
2014-03-01 16:44:39 : <Hippy> I doubt the NZ solution would work, either.
2014-03-01 16:45:20 : <ronn> (Missed saying 'bye to Larry whilst tryig to type :()
2014-03-01 16:45:31 : <sean> instead of vpn, you just need someone you know to run an ssh (secure shell) server that will let you log into it
2014-03-01 16:45:32 : <Hippy> Ah, ronn, you have my point exactly, except that the 'A' stands for Australian in my case
2014-03-01 16:45:37 : <ronn> T-R-Y-I-N-G
2014-03-01 16:46:29 : <Hippy> Is that difficult to set up? None of my friends, bar one, knows even as much as I do about the Internet etc
2014-03-01 16:47:03 : <sean> in windows, i dont know.
2014-03-01 16:47:10 : <sean> i can research tho
2014-03-01 16:47:23 : <ronn> Hippy: My last sentence above is a universal truth! I worry the providers will make al the networks go that way . . .
2014-03-01 16:47:31 : <Hippy> Convincing any of them to run Linux would require my physical presence and a gun
2014-03-01 16:47:47 : <sean> there are ssh servers for windows i am sure
2014-03-01 16:48:00 : <Hippy> It's the complicity of governments, ronn, too. After all, they enact the copyright laws
2014-03-01 16:48:17 : <SolBelter_Spike> Planes flew weekly or as needed. Satellites at 100 miles make few hours coverage. tradeoffs
2014-03-01 16:48:40 : <Hippy> That would then mean they would be pulling the video data down the line and then sending it here, wouldn't it?
2014-03-01 16:49:01 : <ronn> When I eventually get up on the roof to clean the gutters I may try putting up an antenna up there to see if I can get the missing stations, which include ABC and PBS.
2014-03-01 16:49:33 : <sean> for instance, when i go out and use a wifi hot spot... the first thing i do is establish a secure shell connection back to the house with the -D dynamic proxy option. then i use foxy proxy in firefox to establish the proxy. at that point all web requests run through my house server over an encrypted connection. no ID theft
2014-03-01 16:49:50 : <Hippy> All the free to air in Orlando is Spanish or religious stations. I think you can get PBS but the broadvcast point is only half a mile from here
2014-03-01 16:50:46 : <SolBelter_Spike> Nice tip, sean!
2014-03-01 16:50:47 : <sean> the proxy also gives you the ip addy of the ssh host so if you have a buddy in oz that will set it up, you can have an oz ip addy
2014-03-01 16:51:07 : <sean> IT is what i do
2014-03-01 16:51:11 : <SolBelter_Spike> re no ID thef
2014-03-01 16:51:46 : <sean> everything you do in a hotspot is available to someone with a packet sniffer unless you do that
2014-03-01 16:52:14 : <Hippy> Yeah, but it still means GB of data coming down their line. They'll never go for it. Data is metered in my once-proud Commonwealth
2014-03-01 16:53:06 : <sean> it would also be so with a vpn
2014-03-01 16:53:45 : <sean> i can research a solution. should be able to spoof your IP to one in OZ
2014-03-01 16:54:19 : <fredskue_> so why wouldn't you discuss this in front of Larry?
2014-03-01 16:54:55 : <sean> for all of his sci fi genius, he is a puter noob. it would of driven him off.
2014-03-01 16:55:16 : <sean> rather have him leave by choice than 'what the fuck is he talking about'
2014-03-01 16:55:25 : <fredskue_> ah, okay
2014-03-01 16:55:44 : <Hippy> LOL! Yes, 'he knows little of computers and wnats to know less' as Jerry Pournelle said
2014-03-01 16:56:23 : <Hippy> With a VPN, though, I wouldn't be leaving my mates without bandwidth for the whole month
2014-03-01 16:57:05 : <Hippy> I can continue to look into the VPN solution. I don't mind paying for the service, if the price is reasonable.
2014-03-01 16:57:53 : <sean> spike, if you want an excellent video on how to set it up by a cute girl... go to youtube and search nixie pixel ssh proxy
2014-03-01 16:58:13 : <sean> the video can explain far better than i can type it
2014-03-01 16:58:43 : <sean> there should be a free way. you know me, hippy. I like free
2014-03-01 16:58:58 : <Hippy> That what I was hoping for :)
2014-03-01 16:58:59 : <SolBelter_Spike> I introduced Larry to Marvin Minsky at a small Known Space event I organized in early1970s. Larry said he knew nothing of computers. Marvin said 'we can teach you!' Larry wrote the parts of 'World Out of Time' with computer AI Peersa after that.
2014-03-01 16:59:37 : <sean> cool
2014-03-01 16:59:43 : <Hippy> Ah, yes. And here we are 40 years later and no closer to recording our personalities
2014-03-01 17:00:01 : <dmac> hippy for the state.
2014-03-01 17:00:03 : <Hippy> And, so far as I know, we haven't made much progress on AI, either
2014-03-01 17:00:06 : <SolBelter_Spike> With the line 'NEVER say 'forget it' to a computer' :)
2014-03-01 17:00:45 : <ronn> Hippy (from back a bt): The Governments enact the copyright laws they do these days 'cuz the "content providers" contribute to their campaigns, so we still get right back to 1 Timothy 6:10a . . .
2014-03-01 17:01:15 : <Hippy> Where do I know the name 'Marvin Minsky' from? (And don't say 'from a few seconds ago'. My attention span is...um, what?)
2014-03-01 17:01:53 : <Hippy> A Bible reference! Go for it, ronn!
2014-03-01 17:02:04 : <sean> about as long as it takes you to sip a glass of tomATo juice
2014-03-01 17:02:19 : <Hippy> LOL!
2014-03-01 17:02:25 : <SolBelter_Spike> The 'Sonny Bono' copyright extension among others. Disney donated heavily to him.
2014-03-01 17:02:33 : <Hippy> I mean, 'Hmph!', pronunciation guy...
2014-03-01 17:02:50 : <SolBelter_Spike> Minshy was/is a leading AI proponen t.
2014-03-01 17:03:05 : <sean> I am looking forward to a breakfast scramble at Aretha Frankenstein's
2014-03-01 17:03:18 : <ronn> "For the love of money is the root of all evil" (New Testament | 1 Timothy 6:10) [Yes, I planned to provide the quote :P]
2014-03-01 17:03:51 : <Hippy> Me, too. No 'termayder' juice, though, just a good old-fashioned - or a good Old Fashioned.
2014-03-01 17:04:06 : <sean> lol
2014-03-01 17:04:12 : <Hippy> Ah. I should've seen that coming, ronn
2014-03-01 17:04:42 : <Jim> I like RedEyes (beer and tomato juice)
2014-03-01 17:04:49 : <SolBelter_Spike> 'See, the money's fine! Get rid of your guilt - give me your money.'
2014-03-01 17:05:01 : <Jim> spike!
2014-03-01 17:05:14 : <sean> for those not in the know... Hippy and I have roomed at LibertyCon in chattanooga, TN the last two years and last year went to a college restaurant in the area called aretha frankenstein's
2014-03-01 17:05:33 : <Hippy> Anyway, God only knows (trade mark) why Australia has the aame laws. Campaign contributions don't have the same impact as they seem to here
2014-03-01 17:05:49 : <ronn> sean: can I just get the cute girl to set it up?
2014-03-01 17:06:24 : <Hippy> Jim, I...I'm rendered speechless by gagging
2014-03-01 17:06:54 : <sean> oh, Nixie?
2014-03-01 17:07:40 : <ronn> sean isit run by a black singer with tall hair with a white stripe?
2014-03-01 17:07:53 : <SolBelter_Spike> lol
2014-03-01 17:07:57 : <sean> she is in the Philippines helping with relief stuff.
2014-03-01 17:08:17 : <sean> no, unfortunately. it has great food but horrible service by college kids
2014-03-01 17:08:43 : <sean> UT-Chattanooga right down the road
2014-03-01 17:09:05 : <SolBelter_Spike> Hippy, yes, a 4 decade sidetrail so far AI and personality uploads.
2014-03-01 17:09:18 : <ronn> Hippy: But everyone wants the content American companies put out, so to get it they have t agree to the same laws.
2014-03-01 17:09:19 : <sean> mornings at Cons are recovery time. nothing really gets started before noon so plenty of time for breakfast
2014-03-01 17:10:07 : <Hippy> Which you will need because there is FREE BEER in the con suite (if you don't mind idnetifying yourself every time you get one)
2014-03-01 17:10:07 : <ronn> sean: About 150 miles NE from me.
2014-03-01 17:10:46 : <Jim> When I was in college, I noticed that college students gave better service in McDonalds.
2014-03-01 17:10:48 : <ronn> (Looks in mirror.) "Yep, I'm still me!"
2014-03-01 17:11:08 : <sean> ronn, chattanooga? Why did I think you were in arizona?
2014-03-01 17:11:45 : <SolBelter_Spike> <Boston for me.
2014-03-01 17:11:52 : <ronn> I dunno. Both start with "A"?
2014-03-01 17:12:19 : <Hippy> McDonalds service levels are an excellent economic indicator. Once the job market picks up, only the idiots are left to serve there
2014-03-01 17:12:19 : <ronn> (And end with "A" as well . . . )
2014-03-01 17:12:44 : <Hippy> Well, then you're just west of me, ronn
2014-03-01 17:12:50 : <sean> it is tennessee law that you have to show an id every time you order unless you are 'well known' to the bartender or server
2014-03-01 17:13:06 : <sean> come on up to libertycon then, ronn
2014-03-01 17:13:06 : <dmac> gotta run, see you all next month.
2014-03-01 17:13:11 : <sean> later dmac
2014-03-01 17:13:20 : <SolBelter_Spike> bye
2014-03-01 17:13:26 : <Hippy> 'bye, dmac
2014-03-01 17:13:30 : <ronn> bye, dmac!
2014-03-01 17:13:31 : <Jim> bye
2014-03-01 17:13:34 : "dmac" left the channel.
2014-03-01 17:15:20 : <SolBelter_Spike> I look forward to DreamChaser spaceplane on a Falcon-9R(esuble)
2014-03-01 17:15:59 : <sean> got a link?
2014-03-01 17:16:03 : <SolBelter_Spike> 24 to 30 months or so from now
2014-03-01 17:16:19 : <sean> k
2014-03-01 17:16:35 : <SolBelter_Spike> just my synthesis
2014-03-01 17:17:07 : <SolBelter_Spike> DreamChaser will test on an Atlas
2014-03-01 17:17:25 : <SolBelter_Spike> but be driven to SpaceX by cheaper cost.
2014-03-01 17:18:50 : <SolBelter_Spike> DreamChaser vids playlist http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmU1XuFLmTRWhWm4rQiYHrqsJKnonEptW
2014-03-01 17:19:18 : <ronn> sean: I wish I could sometime, but these days going to the library and/or Wal-Mart often puts me down for a couple of days. (Spending literally hours on a prepaid cellphone trying to get phone and Intenet service back this week was also quite exhausting . . .
2014-03-01 17:20:29 : <ronn> sean: I presume that TN law doesn't apply to milk . . . ;)
2014-03-01 17:20:41 : <SolBelter_Spike> SpaceX resuble first stages videos http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmU1XuFLmTRUpcK939lL375sPsZMmPLQv
2014-03-01 17:21:01 : <sean> sorry to hear that, ronn. Hippy, Dan, his wife Lyn and I will be there. Travis Taylor from rocket city rednecks.... much fun will be had by all.
2014-03-01 17:21:18 : <sean> no, just alcoholic libations.... the good stuff.
2014-03-01 17:21:24 : <Hippy> I thought jIm was going to put in an appearance, too
2014-03-01 17:21:39 : <sean> you coming Jim?
2014-03-01 17:22:01 : <sean> sometimes beer blurs my memory
2014-03-01 17:22:31 : <sean> is he hooking up with us here?
2014-03-01 17:23:27 : <Hippy> Last month you were talking about him driving as far as Frankfort and then all of us taking your TARDIS (or un-TARDIS) down there
2014-03-01 17:23:54 : <sean> yeah... i remember. all good
2014-03-01 17:23:56 : <Hippy> But now that I think of it, that may be for a different event
2014-03-01 17:24:01 : <ronn> As long as it isn't a reTARDIS . . .
2014-03-01 17:24:06 : <Jim> No, I am between contracts.
2014-03-01 17:24:12 : <Hippy> LOL, ronn
2014-03-01 17:24:18 : <sean> k
2014-03-01 17:24:24 : <Hippy> Ah...
2014-03-01 17:24:42 : <sean> i seem to remember making the offer
2014-03-01 17:27:15 : <sean> Hippy, you are coming in at supposedly 4:30 on a thursday? knowing your nightmare flight stuff, Julie and I will pick you up in the Venza so she can drive back. I will pack a full cooler. ;)
2014-03-01 17:28:10 : <Hippy> Full cooler sounds good. I thought to come up on the Wednesday, then we drive to Chattanooga on Thursday the 27th
2014-03-01 17:28:27 : <SolBelter_Spike> take care all and safe landings ...
2014-03-01 17:28:32 : <sean> later spike
2014-03-01 17:28:37 : <ronn> I suppose it's always possible I could be having a good spell in June, as well as being finacially flush, but I can't plan that far in advance. Heck, when it comes to things that require energyor stamina, I can't reliably plan for tomorrw . .
has just discovered that it is only an hour from Canterbury to London, so maybe the WorldCon is back on
2014-03-01 17:29:08 : <SolBelter_Spike> yay Hip!
2014-03-01 17:29:30 : <sean> ronn, I would have no problem putting you up at the choo choo. sure the hollifields wouldnt either
2014-03-01 17:30:36 : <sean> you can always register at the con if you show up
2014-03-01 17:32:28 : <ronn> Hippy: Only an hour? How many tales can you tell in that amount of time?
2014-03-01 17:32:57 : <Hippy> I like your references, ronn. I actually have to think about them
2014-03-01 17:33:06 : <Hippy> Which is wearing my brain out
2014-03-01 17:33:29 : <ronn> sean: that would be the only way I migh do it, to show up if I can . . .
2014-03-01 17:34:17 : <Hippy> It's only two hours from Dorset! I am suddenly reminded how small Engand is
AFK to check on suspiciously noisy dogs
2014-03-01 17:35:40 : <sean> ronn, I can talk to dan.... they will have an extra bed.
2014-03-01 17:36:09 : <ronn> Hippy's dogs sound like children: too quiet or too loud both mean possible trouble . . .
2014-03-01 17:36:21 : <sean> or, I am sure the choo choo would have a rollaway for hippy and my rooms
2014-03-01 17:36:24 : <sean> room
2014-03-01 17:36:55 : <sean> the dan's have offered to put me up in their room before. before hippy and i hooked up.
2014-03-01 17:37:23 : <sean> they are night owls so you would probably have the room to yourself till like 4am
2014-03-01 17:38:23 : <ronn> (For cats it's not sound but how long it's been since you saw them that makes youworry what they're up to . . . )
2014-03-01 17:40:32 : <ronn> As I said, no way I can pan tha far ahead. And for theother, keep in mind "Sunrise is Nature's way of telling you it's bedtime."
2014-03-01 17:41:02 : <ronn> AFK for perhaps the same unspecified process.
back and ronn is exactly right. They are like children because they are treated like children
2014-03-01 17:44:28 : <sean> talked to dan... he would have to talk to Lyn his wife and she is shy... his first thought is doubtful. I had met them and she said yes but with doubts about me.
2014-03-01 17:45:06 : <sean> that was after staying a weekend at their house in georgia.
2014-03-01 17:54:03 : <sean> still no problem with putting you up in our room ronn. we will see what happens.
2014-03-01 17:56:33 : <Hippy> Yep!
2014-03-01 17:57:03 : <sean> i figured you would agree, Hippy. ;)
2014-03-01 17:57:08 : <Hippy> Anyway, gentlemen, 6:00 approaches, so I shall bid you all a fond farewell and see you next month.
2014-03-01 17:57:30 : <Hippy> I shall ponder the WorldCon a bit more, too
2014-03-01 17:57:42 : <sean> i will find you an oz way by the way. ;)
2014-03-01 17:57:44 : <Hippy> See you all in April
2014-03-01 17:59:08 : <Hippy> Thanks, Sean. I'm missing all my shows!
2014-03-01 17:59:23 : "Hippy" left the channel.
2014-03-01 18:04:47 : <Jim> bye
2014-03-01 18:04:54 : "Jim" left the channel.
2014-03-01 18:20:55 : <NickE> bed
2014-03-01 18:21:44 : "NickE" left the channel.
2014-03-01 18:56:31 : "Jim" joined the channel.
2014-03-01 18:56:52 : <Jim> anyone still here?
2014-03-01 19:04:24 : <Jim> guess not
2014-03-01 19:04:29 : "Jim" left the channel.
2014-03-01 19:05:51 : "fredskue_" left the channel.
2014-03-01 19:44:06 : "fredskuentz" joined the channel.
2014-03-01 19:44:07 : <fredskuentz> I'm here!
2014-03-01 19:59:48 : <sean> I am always here.
2014-03-01 20:04:35 : "ronn" left the channel.
2014-03-01 21:54:13 : "johnmanyjars" left the channel.