12:27 < jimslow> anyone home?
12:54 < SeanS> I am now that the weed eating and shower are done
13:02 -!- Merlin_McCarley [~email@example.com] has joined #knownspace
13:14 < Merlin_McCarley> Quiet innit? Everybody must be at the lake or a BBQ.
13:15 -!- NickE [~firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #knownspace
13:16 < NickE> evenin'
13:16 < NickE> (will be in and out)
13:16 < Merlin_McCarley> Afternoon, very quiet here on this holiday weekend.
13:22 -!- Jim [~email@example.com] has joined #knownspace
13:23 < Jim> I made it here.
13:32 < Xenovalent> Larry popped in briefly yesterday
13:32 < Xenovalent> didn't say if he'd be back today or not that I saw, though.
13:36 < jimslow> im here
13:41 < NickE> afk
14:13 -!- Lensman [~firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #knownspace
14:28 -!- SolBelter [~SolBelter@c-24-60-202-163.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #knownspace
14:29 < SolBelter> hi Lens, Nicke
14:30 * SolBelter looks at topic
14:31 < SolBelter> ok, how about the ship bouncing thru the pingpong balls of the rings of Saturn in Saturn V movie?
14:31 < SolBelter> visually horrible :)
14:33 < SolBelter> xcuse me - Saturn 3 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_3
14:35 < jimslow> thats just as bad as the movie silent running, going thrue the rings
14:37 < SolBelter> oh but was a fun light show
14:38 < jimslow> true
14:38 < SolBelter> and without pingpong balls, but yes
14:39 < SolBelter> oh, what about the biologist or whatever not realizing in millisecs that plants needed sunlight
14:39 < jimslow> yeah that was a miss step in the movie
14:40 < SolBelter> but i loved the bots playing poler
14:40 < SolBelter> poker
14:41 < jimslow> and they were real humans inside them suits
14:41 < SolBelter> nod
14:43 < jimslow> nice to meet you Sol im jim from Albuquerque nm
14:45 < SolBelter> u too, i'm Spike MacPhee from Boston MA
14:45 < jimslow> cool
14:46 < Jim> Is Larry showing up?
14:46 -!- The_Lurking_Eye [~Hippy@CPE-121-219-169-180.lnse2.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #knownspace
14:47 < SolBelter> no idea :)
14:47 -!- The_Lurking_Eye is now known as Hippy
14:47 < SolBelter> i have rl company later, so i'm in earlier than usual
14:47 < Hippy> Respective time zone greeting to everyone :)
14:47 < Jim> Hippy!
14:47 < Hippy> Jim!
14:48 < SolBelter> larry shows approx 2/3rds, i'd guess
14:48 < jimslow> thats ok i was here yesterday and talking to myself mostly lol
14:48 < SolBelter> hey hip
14:48 < Hippy> Hey, Sol
14:48 < Hippy> It's a surprisngly warm morning here
14:49 < jimslow> my states on fire
14:49 < SolBelter> humid, mid-eighties in Boston
14:49 < SolBelter> aagh
14:49 < Hippy> Jimslow, where's that?
14:49 < jimslow> Im in Albuquerque Nm
14:49 < jimslow> NM
14:49 < SolBelter> another friend of mine works at JPL
14:49 < Hippy> 47 F and windy here
14:50 < jimslow> the place where buggs bunny always makes a wrong turn
14:50 < Hippy> Didn't think there was anything to burn in NM
14:50 < SolBelter> nods to jin - LANlab
14:50 < jimslow> we have , had some good forests
14:50 < Hippy> Ah, Albuquerque, city of regret. . .
14:50 < SolBelter> los alomas
14:50 < SolBelter> and other areas
14:50 < jimslow> its peacefull here at times
14:51 < Hippy> Giant ants not bothering you, then?
14:51 < Hippy> Anyone mind if I change the topic?
14:51 < jimslow> red or black?
14:51 < jimslow> lol
14:52 < SolBelter> a Stendehl-up comedian
14:52 < jimslow> belivie it or not my home has so much formaldihide in it, it keeps most pests away
14:52 < SolBelter> (i know wrong sp)
14:53 < SolBelter> re Stehndehl/
14:53 < SolBelter> wow
14:53 < Hippy> Stendahl?
14:53 < SolBelter> yep
14:53 < Hippy> Ah. . .
14:53 < Hippy> Anyway, on the baiss that silence is assent. . .
14:53 < SolBelter> 'formican formaldi fortress'
14:54 -!- Hippy changed the topic of #knownspace to: So you think you can scree?
14:54 < jimslow> I have a sick beagle that has cushings disease
14:54 < Hippy> Sorry to hear that
14:54 < jimslow> im sorry it just on my mind lately her surgery is the 11th
14:55 < SolBelter> sure i can - if i slide long and hard down a slope of scree, i'll stand up, bent over, holding myself, and saying SCREEE!!!
14:55 < jimslow> thats what ringworld matieral is right?
14:55 < Hippy> Consider this situation: you're a Trinoc and you're (and partner) are pregnant. You're sitting on the couch trying to read and your partner is watching the annoying Trinoc program 'So You Think You Can Scree?' But you can't get away from that because of the way Trinocs breed
14:56 < SolBelter> and my translator will say 'screee'
14:56 < Hippy> Sol, you make a good point
14:56 < Hippy> But, yes, the translater wouldn't get what the TV show was about
14:56 < SolBelter> jim - scrith
14:56 < jimslow> im sorry scirth my bad
14:57 < jimslow> there wne t another c-130 bomber over my house
14:57 < SolBelter> i meant scree re my painful cry of screee...earlier
14:57 < SolBelter> continue Hippy
14:58 < SolBelter> i dont know how trinoca breed...
14:58 < SolBelter> yay jim, water bomer or retardant dumper
14:58 < jimslow> carefuly?
14:58 < SolBelter> bomber
14:59 < Hippy> Oh. Two trinocs bud a trinoc between them till it grows enough to live on its own
14:59 < jimslow> i think the airforce is using retardant
14:59 < SolBelter> i'd forgotten that hip
14:59 < Hippy> Therefore you're trapped with your girlfriend, or whatever, while they're watching the most brain-dead Trinoc entertainment
15:00 < SolBelter> so equivalent for the parents of being screeamese twins
15:00 < jimslow> lol
15:00 < Hippy> LOL
15:00 < SolBelter> :)
15:01 * Hippy AFK to get a cup of tea
15:01 < jimslow> i just started reading jugler of worlds
15:02 < SolBelter> a lot of moving parts in the plot but good
15:03 * Hippy returned - with tea
15:03 < jimslow> sometimes i get lost, but then i seem to re gather my plot lines and see it thrue
15:04 < Hippy> Last month I learnt that it was something of an historical revisionist novel, so I have put them on the back burner as far as reading goes
15:04 < jimslow> im partaly blind, and get the books on digital now
15:04 < jimslow> 15 hours to read to book
15:05 < jimslow> the
15:06 * SolBelter nods to both
15:07 < SolBelter> hippy, they are an intricate five books - better to all 5 at once
15:07 < Hippy> Me, too, Jimslow. . .I think you may have a solution there
15:07 < SolBelter> to read
15:07 < SolBelter> i haven't seen five, but read one at a time
15:07 < Hippy> Yeah, but I don't like changing Louis Wu's life around like they apparently do
15:08 < SolBelter> \same as jim, had to regather plotlines
15:09 -!- Larry [~Larry@adsl-64-175-211-26.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net] has joined #knownspace
15:09 < SolBelter> oh Louis is fine - there's a reason for seeming inconsistency
15:09 < Hippy> Hi Larry!
15:09 < SolBelter> but u have to read book 4 first
15:09 < SolBelter> hi Larry
15:10 < Larry> Hi, all! I tried to contact you all yesterday, misreadingthe day of week. Sorry for any confusion.
15:10 < jimslow> i asked my Library to send all Niven books here, but they dont send them in order
15:10 < Hippy> Ah, okay. Well, in that case I shall move them back up the list
15:10 < SolBelter> i saw an ad for here http://www.audible.com/t1/PBRP0329WS022409?source_code=PBRGA900WWS042811 and they said i could have a free audiobook of ringworld, if i joined
15:11 < SolBelter> legit or nor?
15:11 < Hippy> Well, I did join and I got 'Lucifers's Hammer' and 'Footfall' from them
15:11 < Larry> So you think you can scree? Don't understand scree.
15:11 < SolBelter> oh good!
15:11 < Hippy> Ah, it's where your translator won't translate
15:11 < SolBelter> Trinoc translator scream
15:12 < Hippy> It's my thoughts on a Trinoc reality show
15:12 < Larry> Ah! I suspected a Nivenism.
15:12 < jimslow> water break
15:12 < Hippy> Oh, yes, we're all Niven fans here :)
15:13 < SolBelter> i'd always figgered a fellow hiker challenge3d Larry to put geolgical scree into an sf story
15:13 < Hippy> So, imagiene a pair of 'pregnant' Trinocs, who can't get away from each other, and one watches shows like 'So You Think You Can Scree?'
15:14 < SolBelter> and Harlan Ellinoc wrote the classic 'i have no mouth and must scree...'
15:14 < Larry> Greg Benford and I are into the fun part of BOWL OF HEAVEN. We've got a manuscript and are playing with it, amplifying.
15:14 < SolBelter> ooh great
15:15 < Hippy> Excellent!
15:15 < SolBelter> i've always enjoyed greg's work
15:16 < SolBelter> and both collaborations were goodBrin Heart of the Comet\
15:16 < SolBelter> and If the Stars are Goods Ecklund
15:16 < SolBelter> i look forward to what you two create
15:17 < Hippy> 'We Could Do Worse' was a good short story. I can't say I've read any other Benford
15:17 < jimslow> same here
15:17 < SolBelter> Timescape
15:17 < SolBelter> and 6 book galactic Center series
15:17 < SolBelter> many others too
15:17 < SolBelter> oh yeah Eater
15:18 < SolBelter> brrr...
15:18 < Hippy> This is looking like I'll need to add these to my reading list
15:18 < SolBelter> and Cosm for a look at real physicists
15:19 < SolBelter> in Eater, a black hole comes to visit
15:19 < SolBelter> and demand...
15:19 < Hippy> Ooh, that's actually quite intriguing
15:19 < Hippy> You've got a good way with a blurb there, Sol
15:19 < SolBelter> and a heart-wrenching subplot of watching a loved one die
15:19 < jimslow> and something living on the event-horizion
15:20 < SolBelter> hippy, i sold books
15:20 < Hippy> Oh, right!
15:20 < SolBelter> i had to hook clients without spoilers
15:20 < SolBelter> so i practiced
15:20 < Hippy> I always thought you were some kind of scientist, but I now can't say why
15:21 < SolBelter> my vocab
15:21 < SolBelter> engineering and tech phrases
15:21 < Hippy> That's could be it
15:21 < Hippy> Or I just assume eeeryone here is some kind of scientist, or they wouldn't be here
15:21 < jimslow> im not
15:21 < Hippy> Even though I'm not. . .
15:22 < SolBelter> and comment like this - 49,000 miles to Vesta rock! http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/orbits/fullview4.jpg
15:22 < jimslow> hence the name
15:22 < Larry> Heh. Solbelter, a seller of SF should sound like a physicist/biologist/etc.
15:22 < SolBelter> i have a MechEng degree but devour sci/tech news
15:22 < SolBelter> no Larry, that's you writres
15:23 < Larry> Us too
15:23 < SolBelter> but i had to have knowledge of books to recommend correctly to the biols, etc :)
15:24 < SolBelter> my favorite tease-blurb ever
15:24 < SolBelter> was to hook teens on their first heinlein juvenile
15:24 < Hippy> Ah, yes: 'Red Planet'. . .
15:25 < Larry> Yeah. I came to Heinlein at the golden age, maybe eleven.
15:25 < SolBelter> u see this 'Tunnel in the Sky?" U know a bout pass-fail courses? This is about a pass-die course!
15:25 < jimslow> woof
15:25 < Hippy> Nice one!
15:25 < Larry> :)
15:25 < SolBelter> and i could scoop a highschooler into his first heinlein
15:26 < Hippy> A good start, too
15:26 < SolBelter> then they's self motivate
15:26 < Lensman> I think I found Heinlein at 11, too. STARMAN JONES.
15:26 < jimslow> the movie that realy got me burning for sf was the Andromeda strain
15:26 < SolBelter> aaah yeah! and time for the stars...
15:27 < Larry> my first was Rocket Ship Galileo.
15:27 < SolBelter> i was a 2nd gen sf reader so i got exposed to heinlein in F&SF from age 7 on
15:27 < Hippy> Damn, havne't read that one
15:28 < Lensman> I remember thinking "Hey, this author put REAL science into his book, not like those other books I've read."
15:28 < SolBelter> then saw them them in school library 3rd grade when we were allowed to take out books
15:28 < Hippy> It was hard to get the magazines out here, so I read everything in anthologies.
15:28 < Hippy> Years after it had been written
15:28 < Hippy> So I neatly sidestepped the New Wave, which meant I wanted to continue to read. . .
15:29 * SolBelter gyuffaws
15:29 < Larry> Miss the New Wave, you likely miss me. I wasn't in it, it was when I started writing.
15:29 < Hippy> My first Niven was 'Get A Horse' and that was in the Austrlian Women's Weekly' of all places
15:29 < Lensman> Stumbled across Heinlein in the school library. I was too young to understand at the time that I should seek out other books by the same author. So by the time I started collecting books of my own, I couldn't remember which title it was. It was only when I was much older, reading my own copies of the books, that I figured out STARMAN JONES was my first.
15:30 < SolBelter> remebing issue 3 of a Chip delaney new wave anthol with i think Rammer or some sujh
15:30 < SolBelter> by Larry - i was confused
15:31 < SolBelter> ah, i think the Monks, interstellar trade, draco tavern?
15:31 < jimslow> since my 40's ive re-gatherd my thought processes
15:31 < Hippy> I borrowed 'The Second If Reader' from the school library, came across 'At The Core' by the same guy that wrote 'Get A Horse!' and after that I sought out more.
15:31 < SolBelter> it was so out of place in that experimental writing vol
15:32 < Hippy> Luckily, 'Tales of Known Space' came out the following year.
15:32 < Lensman> When I was in high school, I noticed this paperback on a carousel that had a huge ring around a star on the cover. It showed mountains and sky on the world... but at a 90 degree angle to the ring. So I thought it was some sort of surreal thing, which put me off. But I kept seeing it. So I finally picked it up and started reading RINGWORLD. 1972, probably. Give or take a year.
15:32 < jimslow> and mr Nivens books make alot of sence to me now
15:32 < Hippy> 'Fourth Profession', Sol?
15:34 < Hippy> Who here remembers those carnivorous centaurs from 'Starman Jones'?
15:35 < Larry> "Fourth Profession" does have Monks, interstellar trade, and a bartender. Also a sainthool pill.
15:35 < SolBelter> possible Hippy
15:35 < Hippy> Yes, Larry, but no Smithpeople. We only ever hear about them once
15:35 < SolBelter> i'm riffling the bibliog but it doesntlist anthologies, just collections
15:35 < Larry> Starman Jones was sixty years ago, can't remember many details.
15:36 < Lensman> <Lensman looks at Hippy and raises hand> Reread STARMAN JONES just a few years ago. Third time.
15:36 < Hippy> Ah, Lens, I can always rely on you. Larry, I was thinking that the Puppeterers reminded me of those 'centaurs'
15:36 < SolBelter> Jones has to use his mental log tables to conn the ship after the mutineer hides the log table books grin
15:36 < jimslow> Mr Niven I enjoyed your interview on bellonium
15:37 < SolBelter> Maximillian Jones
15:37 < Lensman> Not sure, but Smithpeople may be mentioned in "The Leshy Circuit" planetarium script. Not that that counts as canon, of course.
15:37 < SolBelter> hippy, brrr,,, organzing the world
15:38 < Lensman> Oooh, Centaurs are nasty. And use biotech.
15:38 < Hippy> Yep, Sol. Can't remember Heinleins' phrase, though
15:38 < Lensman> Centaurs are slavers. But then...
15:38 < Hippy> 'Biological autocracy' or something like that
15:38 < Lensman> Puppeteers are merely more sophisticated slavers.
15:38 < Larry> I didn't describe Smithpeople even to myself.
15:38 < Hippy> Oh. . .
15:39 < Hippy> I have a clearer picture of Puppeteers now, though, and they aren't really like the centaurs at all.
15:39 < Lensman> "Interview on bellonium." When/where was this? I must have missed it.
15:39 < Hippy> But at age 13 or so
15:40 < jimslow> i found it on youtube, let me see
15:41 < SolBelter> oh balonium, balogna, baloney - now i get the ref toscrith
15:41 < Hippy> Scrith, GP hull material. . .
15:41 < Lensman> "Balonium", oh.
15:42 < jimslow> sorry spelling is bad
15:42 < Lensman> 'sokay
15:42 < SolBelter> np
15:42 < Lensman> A variant on "unobtainium".
15:42 < SolBelter> mine, too
15:43 < Lensman> I suppose the GP hull is composed of balonium.
15:43 < Hippy> There were other examples, but I can't remember them
15:43 < Lensman> And /scrith/ would also be balonium.
15:43 < jimslow> that and scrithy i was thinking
15:43 < jimslow> scrith
15:44 < Larry> I had three variants of unobtanium in RINGOWRLD. Not deliberate: two were left over from previous Known Space stories.
15:44 < jimslow> and the shadow squar wires
15:44 < Lensman> What was the third, Larry? The stasis field?
15:44 < Hippy> I always thought the SS wires were made of scrith
15:44 < Hippy> Stasis fields!!
15:44 < Larry> Okay, four.
15:44 < jimslow> ah
15:44 < Hippy> Knew I'd get it. . .
15:44 < Lensman> Shadow square wire was almost certainly /scrith/.
15:45 < Lensman> Well, if Larry says the wire isn't /scrith/, then it isn't. Seems to have similar properties, tho.
15:46 < Larry> Okay, shadow square wire is scrith.
15:46 < Hippy> Why would the Engineers have used something different? Scrith does it all
15:46 < Hippy> So that's three
15:46 < Hippy> And one more bit of canon :)
15:47 < SolBelter> side note from last month about Fate of Worlds, from what Larry and edward said http://paradoxolbers.wordpress.com/2011/06/27/fifth-fleet-of-worlds-novel-fate-of-worlds-finished/
15:48 < Larry> THE FATE OF WORLDS is a draft, perhaps not final draft. We're awaiting proofs.
15:48 < SolBelter> Probability Zero ad 'Shadow-square wire! the *ultimate* dental floss!'
15:48 < Hippy> Oh, so we're about eighteen months away from release?
15:48 < Hippy> LOL!
15:49 < jimslow> sol lol
15:49 < Larry> Jeez, Solbelter, you'd cut off all your teeth!
15:49 < SolBelter> kk Larry, i'll update
15:49 < Lensman> Hippy, the OF WORLDS books have been coming out about a year apart, give or take a month or so.
15:49 < Lensman> LOL! Yeah, you'd have to be quite a masochist to use SSW as dental floss!
15:49 < Lensman> It cut the grippy Speaker was holding.
15:49 < Hippy> I was thinking that 'Escape from Hell' took about eighteen months
15:50 < jimslow> i just finshed escape
15:50 < Lensman> Speaking of which... Hey Larry! What's a "grippy"? Is that a slang term for pliers, or a different tool?
15:50 < Hippy> Yes, and therefore SS wire would tackle the most recalcitrant bit of beef vindaloo
15:50 < jimslow> i liked it alot
15:50 < Hippy> I always thought it was a spanner of some type
15:51 < Hippy> Or 'wrench', if I may lapse into the vernacular
15:51 < Larry> a grippy is a multipurpose tool.
15:51 < Lensman> Ah, thanks Larry.
15:51 < Hippy> If it was made of memory plastic it could take a variety of shapes
15:51 < Larry> spanner, plyers, hammer, wrench, maybe sawblade.
15:52 < jimslow> yes i remember that stuff
15:52 < Hippy> And therefore would first appear in Gil the ARM's time
15:52 < Lensman> The furniture in Bellamy's camp in "Grendel" was made of memory plastic.
15:53 < Hippy> As was the furniture in Owen Jennisons' flat
15:53 < Hippy> In 'ARM'
15:53 < jimslow> larry can a wirehead be rehab'ed
15:53 < SolBelter> yes, SS floss would cut teeth - hence old Astounding ref to Probabilty Zero dept
15:53 < Lensman> ...in "Death by Ecstasy". Two points for Hippy.
15:53 < SolBelter> look what it did to grippies
15:53 < Larry> a wirehead named Louis Wu was rehabbed. (Twice.)
15:54 < jimslow> besides Wu
15:54 < SolBelter> 'u will observe i now hold half of a grippy' Speaker
15:54 < Hippy> Sorry, it was 'D by E'. I must be losing my edge, Lens. . .
15:54 < jimslow> Wu is chosen
15:54 < Lensman> SolBelter: Yeah, I got the "Probability Zero" reference. Asimov's "Thiotimoline" speculative science articles were pubbed under that header.
15:55 < Larry> Re Theotimoline: I don't think they were.
15:55 < Lensman> Hippy: Didn't want to argue with you, my memory ain't perfect.
15:55 < SolBelter> oh i figgured most got the ref but i like to be inclusive, esp referring to a 60 yr old feature...grin
15:55 < Hippy> Nor's mine, Lens. You were quite right to argue
15:56 < SolBelter> right Larry - they were too big to fit
15:56 < Larry> Jeez, we are getting old, aren't we? Or mostly me.
15:56 < SolBelter> Prob eroes were halpage or so
15:56 < SolBelter> half
15:56 < Hippy> The only Asimov I cank think of published under 'Proability Zero' was a thing called 'Blank!'
15:56 < SolBelter> we, Larry, we ...
15:56 < Hippy> Well, I second that, Larry
15:57 < Xenovalent> SolBelter: Analog still runs "Probability Zero" short stories (generally less than two pages) sometimes.
15:57 < Xenovalent> I guess they changed format somewhere along the way?
15:57 < Lensman> Larry is right, I was mixing up the "Thiotimoline" article in the /Astounding-- John W. Campbell Memorial Anthology/ with the "Probability Zero" article there.
15:57 < Xenovalent> (And once a "Probability One" story about a insurance actuary who encouraged his wife to take up dangerous habits)
15:57 < SolBelter> wow xeno - i'm 20 yrs out of date re ASF
15:58 < Lensman> Larry, ain't none of us getting younger.
15:58 < Lensman> Larry: Howz about you invent that Dikta immortality booth real soon now?
15:58 < Hippy> But relativity is aging all of you faster than me :)
15:58 < jimslow> lol
15:58 < SolBelter> hippy, it's not arguing, it's crowdsourced self correction
15:58 < Hippy> I think.
15:58 < jimslow> spice
15:58 < Hippy> Anyone nearer than 38 degrees from the Equator?
15:59 < Hippy> You ARE a good man with a euphemism, Sol
15:59 < SolBelter> but true hippy we are scholar/fans. not competitors
16:00 < SolBelter> well, except for some of the kzin niven fansd
16:00 < jimslow> cat lovers
16:00 < Hippy> Now there's a thought. . .would they object to how they're portrayed?
16:00 < Lensman> No, I like SolBelter's phrase. I've always thought of a forum that way... crowdsourced self-correction. Well, not using that term, but that concept. The good memes float to the top, the bad ones get killed off. At least, that's the way it should be. Sometimes bad memes get spread that way, tho.
16:01 < SolBelter> Hippy, in answer, observe the four deep grooves down your face...
16:01 < Hippy> Eventually it all evens out, though, Lens
16:01 < Hippy> LOL, Sol
16:02 < SolBelter> we're here because we like 'to think it through' or at least read about those who do :)
16:02 < Hippy> There's that 'index' or whatever it is. The one that measures how long it takes someone on a forum to say 'That's just what Hitler did'
16:02 < jimslow> agree
16:02 < Lensman> "kzin niven fans"? I know there are some Trek fans who are "into" Kzinti as an assumed culture, the way some Trek fans are into Klingons. Is that what you mean? I don't consider those Niven fans.
16:03 < SolBelter> not a Na/zinti ref! oh no!
16:03 < Hippy> Yes, that's what Larry says. 'Always work a speculation all the way through.' or something like that
16:03 < Lensman> "Godwin's Law"?
16:03 < Lensman> Re Nazi references.
16:03 < SolBelter> Lens I meant actual kxin (joke)
16:03 < SolBelter> not human kzinti fans
16:03 < Jim> Kzin furries
16:04 < Hippy> I think that's it, Lens
16:04 < Lensman> SolBelter: Sorry. Sometimes I just don't get jokes. My Asperger's Syndrome showing, I guess.
16:04 < Larry> I don't know any Kzin Niven fans. But I remember Dickson's Dorsai. Maybe they're still around.
16:04 < SolBelter> one friend of mine went one tour in Iraq and returned to being Shrekkk here after
16:04 < Lensman> Oh, furries. Okay.
16:04 < Hippy> Jim, you have opned a Pandora's box, now
16:04 < Larry> And I did get invited as GOH to a Furry convention. Odd but pleasant.
16:04 < jimslow> lol
16:05 < Hippy> Egad!
16:05 < Hippy> Now, this reminds me of something. Assume you wanted to be a Puppeteer Furry
16:05 < Lensman> I confess almost all I "know" about furries comes from the CSI episode "Fur and Loathing in Las Vegas".
16:05 < Jim> yffing along
16:06 < Lensman> Sounds painful, Hippy.
16:06 < SolBelter> rl visitors calling A good weekend to you all
16:06 < jimslow> u 2
16:06 < Hippy> Now, here's what you could do. Get a couple of webcams and strap them to your wrists. Run the feed from each to a separate lens in a pair of virtual goggles. Instant Puppeteer viewpoint
16:06 < Lensman> Bye, SB.
16:06 < SolBelter> bye Lens
16:06 < Larry> I know where to find a Puppeteer costume. However it's uncomfortable and restrictive.
16:06 < Hippy> 'Bye, SB
16:06 < Jim> bye
16:07 < SolBelter> bye hippy, Jim
16:07 -!- SolBelter [~SolBelter@c-24-60-202-163.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["*g0ne*"]
16:07 < Hippy> Larry, is that the costume it takes two people to use?
16:08 < jimslow> it was nice meeting you all, have a great 4th and safe
16:08 < Larry> Cathy Sanders made it.
16:08 < Lensman> You too, jimslow
16:08 < Jim> yes
16:08 < Hippy> Good to mee you, too, Jimslow
16:08 < jimslow> ill be more versed next sat
16:08 -!- jimslow [~Jimslow@97-123-48-237.albq.qwest.net] has quit 
16:09 < Larry> One person. She had one leg bound up against her belly, and stilts for the arms/forelegs, and the heads and necks were stiffened and hollow. Muscles sculpted in.
16:09 < Hippy> That's impressive!
16:10 < Larry> Cathy put 12 of my aliens onstage. We won funniest at the Masquerade.
16:10 < Hippy> Oh, yes, the play. I wish I'd seen that
16:11 < Lensman> Don't we all!
16:11 < Hippy> Maybe I did but the thrint told me not to remember
16:11 < Lensman> LOL
16:11 < Hippy> I really liked the thrint. Everyone liked the thrint!
16:11 < Lensman> jimslow: This chat is once a month, not once a week. Sorry. First Saturday of the month.
16:11 < Larry> "See it again for the first time!"
16:12 < Hippy> LOL
16:12 < Lensman> I wonder if that masquerade was videotaped?
16:12 -!- Hippy changed the topic of #knownspace to: Thrint vs Hypno-Toad
16:13 < Larry> If you could control the Babel Fish, it would serve as projective telepathy.
16:13 < Hippy> Hey. . .that's interesting
16:14 -!- Jim changed the topic of #knownspace to: Hypno-Toad vs Thrint
16:15 < Jim> my sinuses
16:16 < Lensman> Larry casually dropping in that mind-blowing concept reminds me of "What Can You Say about Chocolate Covered Manhole Covers?"
16:16 < Hippy> Ah, yes. The ice skating in that. . .
16:16 < Hippy> Yes, you're a good intelligence tester, Larry. Suspiciously good. . .
16:16 < Lensman> ...in which the parties were attended by those bright enough to keep up with the conversations, as those less bright tended to drop out.
16:17 < Lensman> Yah. Reverse ice skating.
16:17 < Lensman> But the penalty for falling is rather severe...
16:18 < Hippy> Why aren't there parties like that, these days?
16:18 < Hippy> I suppose WorldCon room parties are like that
16:18 < Lensman> Hippy: You're in one!
16:19 < Hippy> Good point, Lens, but it's a tad early for a cocktail. . .
16:19 < Hippy> Ah! Kzin furries are the opposite of Kdaptist kzinti
16:20 < Hippy> Sorry, I mean 'the same as'
16:20 < Lensman> I've seen chat rooms for SF fans described as the online version of a SF con party. I agree, altho the number of conversations per room tend to be fewer. I *have* been in chat rooms with so many people that different ones were holding different conversations simultaneously. That has happened here, altho not that often.
16:20 -!- Akiraa [~Akira@184.108.40.206] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
16:21 < Hippy> For instance, what is the RL equivalent of what just happened to Akiraa?
16:21 < Lensman> LOL! Good point about Kzin furries <> Kdaptist Kzinti
16:21 < Lensman> Hippy: Passing out or having to run to the bathroom.
16:22 < Hippy> Yeah, true. Not people just vanishing. . .
16:22 < Hippy> Not every idea pans out :(
16:22 < Lensman> Well, there are some Fortean claims for people literally vanishing, but personally I don't put a lot of stock in such things.
16:23 < Hippy> There would almost certainly be Kzin furries. People trying to understand aliens who eat intelligent species would dress up like them
16:23 < Hippy> Getting their ears surgically altered
16:23 < Lensman> You did say "real life" equivalent. Otherwise I'd point to Larry's "By Mind Alone".
16:24 < Hippy> 'By Mind Alone'?
16:24 * Hippy is shocked to find he hasn't heard of that one
16:24 < Hippy> I. . .this is not good
16:24 < Lensman> Unfortunately Trek fans tend to get the Kzinti ears wrong. They often make them look more like tigers.
16:25 < Hippy> Wunderlanders who can move their ears anyway could get the surgery done
16:25 < Lensman> "By Mind Alone" is one of the uncollected Niven stories. Teleportation by psychic power, not mechanical device.
16:25 < Hippy> And what happened to that poor girl in. . .the Don Kingsbury story. . .becomes a lifestyle choice
16:25 < Hippy> Ah. . .well, that explains why I haven't come across it
16:26 < Lensman> I have it in magazine form, it's never been reprinted AFAIK.
16:27 < Hippy> If it had, I'd've heard of it
16:27 < Hippy> Hopefully it's in 'The Best Of. . .'
16:27 < Lensman> Nope.
16:27 < Hippy> Damn. . .
16:27 * Hippy shrugs off disappointment with the aid of a droud
16:28 < Lensman> You might be able to find the magazine thru <used.addall.com>.
16:29 < Hippy> Righto
16:29 < Hippy> Is it us, Lens, or has it gone quiet in here?
16:29 < Lensman> Definitely quiet.... too quiet!
16:29 < Hippy> LOL
16:31 * Hippy coughs, just to hear the echo
16:31 -!- senax [~email@example.com] has joined #knownspace
16:31 < Hippy> Hello, xenax!
16:31 < senax> Hello.
16:31 < Lensman> Okay, so you have your skating rink of razor blades laid out in a loop, mounted edge up. You strap blocks of ice to your feet to skate with. How the heck to you protect yourself if you fall? A full suit of chainmail? We need something very tough and lightweight. Here's where we need aranek, from the /Skylark/ series. Or very thin pieces of GP hull. Not /scrith/, that's described as dense and...
16:31 < Lensman> ...heavy.
16:32 < Larry> I dropped out for a few minutes and have been rereading. Laughed out loud at a reference to the basis of "Chocolate Covered Manhole Covers".
16:32 < Hippy> Ah, well, we're still on that, Larry
16:33 < Hippy> Motorcycle leathers should protect well enough, Lens
16:33 < Hippy> After all, you'd be sliding across the blades with little resistance
16:33 < Larry> I see. Anyone local to San Francisco could meet Tom Digby (whom I called Degler.)
16:34 < Hippy> Will you be going to the WorldCon in Reno, Larry?
16:34 < Lensman> Seriously, you think a leather jacket is enough? You'll need a helmet, too. And I think you'll need something better than just motorcycle leather gloves.
16:34 < Larry> He wears a ring in his nose and says he's gay. Misdirection to hide an alien?
16:35 < Hippy> Look at the leathers racers wear. They protect against asphalt
16:35 < Lensman> I don't remember, what story is Degler in?
16:35 < Larry> Lensman: "
16:35 < Lensman> I suppose it makes a difference how closely set the razor blades are. Just like a bed of nails, if they're very close together, the penetrating power is a lot less.
16:36 < Hippy> Good thought, Larry. It does explain why he's not interested sexually
16:36 < Larry> "What can you say about Chocolate Covered Manhole Covers?"
16:36 < Lensman> Ah. Thanks Larry.
16:36 < Hippy> Well, the blades have to be very close or they'd bend under the weight of the skater
16:37 < Hippy> I alwsys imagined them being as close-set as teeth in a comb
16:37 < Lensman> But the farther apart, the lower the friction and the faster you can skate.
16:37 < Lensman> I imagined them as inches apart.
16:37 < Hippy> Too much danger of slipping, though, if they're further apart
16:37 < Lensman> So, that explains why you think motorcycle leathers would be sufficient.
16:38 < Hippy> Yes, but you'd need help getting up
16:38 < Hippy> If you put your hands down to pick yyourself up. that would be a major owie
16:38 < Larry> Yeah, don't forget gloves.
16:39 < Hippy> And a full face helmet
16:39 < Lensman> Yah, that's why I said typical leather gloves won't cut it. Too much pressure on just your hands if you use them to break your fall. Maybe gloves made of that chainmail skin divers use to protect against sharks. But then you'd mess up the razor blades you landed on, so that's an imperfect solution.
16:40 < Larry> Murder mystery: anyone could be inside a skater's outfit.
16:40 < Lensman> Right, closed motorcycle helmet.
16:40 < Hippy> Go on, Larry. . .
16:40 < Larry> Lots of Kevlar involved.
16:40 < Lensman> It's fascinating watching how an author's mind works. Or at least Larry's.
16:41 < Hippy> Kevlar would do it
16:41 < Hippy> Strong, flexible, hard to cut
16:41 < Hippy> And if the blades are inches apart, they would bend under a skater's weight
16:41 < Larry> Kevlar gloves work around sharp stuff in a kitchen.
16:42 < Lensman> Okay, Kevlar gloves it is.
16:42 < Hippy> Of course, the rink must be kept cold still, or your ice blocks melt
16:44 < Hippy> But an outdoor one far enough South (or North) would work.
16:44 < Hippy> A great children's playground idea!
16:44 < Hippy> All the play equipment is made of razor blades
16:44 < Hippy> Razor swings, razor monkey bars. . .the kids are dressed in Kevlar
16:44 < Lensman> Depends on how long you want to skate. If it's for just a few minutes at a time, you don't need a chilled rink. But wearing all that leather, it would be nice if the room was chilled.
16:46 < Lensman> Or I guess we're wearing full suits of Kevlar now.
16:46 < Lensman> Not leather.
16:46 < Hippy> Yep
16:46 < Hippy> Woven Kevlar thread
16:46 < Lensman> So we look like race car drivers.
16:47 < Lensman> Without the logos, unless we're a sports team.
16:47 < Hippy> Yep, and the fans certainly won't storm the pitch after a razor hockey game
16:47 < Lensman> Hey! Rollerball on a razor rink.
16:47 < Hippy> Oh, the humanity. . .
16:47 < Lensman> Have to change the ball, tho. A huge ball bearing would *not* be good on the razor blades.
16:48 < Hippy> No. . .
16:48 < Hippy> An ice ball might work
16:48 < Lensman> Oh, perfect Hippy!
16:48 < Hippy> Or something like a Kevlar ping pong ball
16:49 < Hippy> You just replace the ice balls when they melt
16:49 < Lensman> In "Rollerball" they had a motorcycle as part of each side's equipment. So what kind of tires does it have?
16:49 < Hippy> In the original story, William Harrison had an oval-shaped ball, so it would bounce uncontrollably
16:50 < Lensman> Never read it. (Lensman --> Philistine)
16:50 < Hippy> It's pretty good
16:50 < Hippy> If I can ever get a book scanner at a decent price, I shall forward you a copy
16:51 -!- senax [~firstname.lastname@example.org] has quit 
16:51 < Hippy> Although buying the whole book from AbeBooks might be a better option
16:51 < Lensman> Thanks for the offer, Hippy. But I prefer not to violate copyright.
16:51 < Hippy> A laudable attitude, Lens
16:51 < Lensman> used.addall.com is a book collector's best friend!
16:52 < Lensman> That uses AbeBooks and a bunch of other sites for its search.
16:53 < Hippy> Looks like an interesting site. . .I was using bookfinder.com for a while
16:53 < Hippy> But then the ol' eyeballs made buying books something of a waste of time
16:53 < Lensman> Make sure you check the "search all sites" option at the bottom.
16:54 < Hippy> Indeed I shall
16:54 < Hippy> For the murder mystery. . .if someone 'thinks' their suit is Kevlar, but it isn't
16:55 < Lensman> Ow ow ow ow!
16:55 < Hippy> Yep, and as Larry says, anyone could be inside another suit
16:55 < Hippy> At first it would look like an accident until you see the suit all shredded
16:56 < Hippy> The victim has had a very close shave
16:56 * Hippy ducks for cover
16:58 < Lensman> Not sure that's really a very good murder method, tho. If the blades are as closely set as you suggest, I think you'd tend to get superficial cuts, but not deep wounds.
16:58 < Hippy> Yeah, you're right, Lens
16:58 < Hippy> It would take a long time to bleed to death
16:59 < Hippy> On something of an imploring note. . .who here has Excel 2010?
16:59 < Lensman> You could work around that by, say, coating the inside of the suit with a poison which had to get into the blood to work. But then that kind of spoils the elegance of the idea.
16:59 * Hippy is surprised to see that it's raining here
17:00 < Hippy> Yes, why not just inject them with poison
17:00 < Lensman> I have OpenOffice, which is pretty good at opening Excel files, altho there may be exceptions.
17:00 < Hippy> You could coat the blades with some 'cleaner' that would have the same effect. Now you've covered why the poison was there in the first place
17:01 < Hippy> Ah, no, this is Excel specific. For some reason, my charts are not updating
17:01 < Lensman> Right, if you're gonna poison someone, switching their skating suit and poisoning it is a rather elaborate way to do it. Surely there are easier ways.
17:01 < Hippy> I'll call Microsoft on Monday. (Gets out Urdu-English dictionary.)
17:04 < Lensman> So, to make sure our fall onto the razor rink is actually deadly, we don't use razor blades and ice blocks. We use variable sword blades, and the skates are plates of scrith! Now, a fall *will* kill you. Of course, now you need something better than a Kevlar suit, too.
17:04 < Hippy> GP hull suit
17:04 < Lensman> 'Xactly.
17:04 < Hippy> Wait. If the blades are made of antimatter. . .
17:05 < Larry> If we're going that far...
17:05 * Hippy waves sanity a fond farewell
17:05 < Lensman> LOL! I think antimatter might be going a bit far...
17:06 < Larry> Skate across an ice field on an antimatter planet. Your skates are in stasis. Knee pads, elbow pads, etc also in stasis.
17:06 < Hippy> There we go!
17:06 < Larry> Aw, you guys think just like me.
17:07 < Hippy> It makes ice hockey pretty interesting
17:07 < Lensman> Right, that's what I was thinking Larry. You'd have to use stasis fields for protection, nothing else would do! And your rink has to be in vacuum, otherwise the air interacts with the antimatter and you get deadly radiation, at least.
17:08 < Hippy> Now, the planet in 'Flatlander' was too cold to have liquid water (antiwater) otherwise you could go sailing, and possibly SCUBA diving
17:08 < Larry> It's time to resume my life. Fare you well, all.
17:09 < Hippy> You, too, Larry
17:09 < Lensman> Bye, Larry.
17:09 < Lensman> Scuba diving? You have a stasis field that doesn't put you in stasis?
17:09 -!- Larry [~Larry@adsl-64-175-211-26.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net] has quit ["*g0ne*"]
17:09 < Hippy> Yeah, that's where my idea goes up in high velocity particles
17:10 < Lensman> Not to mention, it's... um... rather hard to see thru a stasis field.
17:10 < Hippy> Ah, yes. . .
17:11 * Hippy AFK briefly for another cup of tea
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17:12 < Lensman> I'll be AFK getting lunch.
17:17 * Hippy back
17:18 < Lensman> front
17:18 < Lensman> Guess it's just you and me, Hippy.
17:18 < Lensman> So how are the eyes now? Fully recovered?
17:19 < Hippy> Oh, yes. As good as they're going to get
17:19 < Lensman> Which means...?
17:20 < Hippy> Now that I have glasses in the right prescription, I can even read
17:20 < Hippy> And there's no danger that the retina will detach again
17:20 < Lensman> Read normal print, or do you need large print books?
17:20 < Hippy> 'As good as' means 6/48 vision. What you can see at 48 yards, I have to be 6 yards away to see
17:20 < Lensman> Glad to hear there's no danger of relapse.
17:21 < Jim> was Ed here?
17:21 < Hippy> Normal print, though textbooks are hard and in any case the lighting has to be good
17:21 < Lensman> Heh. What I could see without my glasses at 48 yards... ain't much.
17:21 < Lensman> Not that I saw, Jim.
17:21 < Hippy> I have to hold the book about four inches from my nose, but the joy of reading cares not for for the look of the thing
17:22 < Hippy> Ah, no, 6/48 with glasses
17:23 < Hippy> Unassisted, it's less than 6/120 which is as far as the eye charts go
17:23 < Hippy> But compared to what it was, it's brilliant
17:23 < Lensman> Well that's good that you can use normal books. I guess they have text-to-speech readers that will read a normal book for you, but surely it's not as convenient as holding a book yourself. I wonder if those will turn the page, or do you have to take the book out and put it back in every time you need to turn a page?
17:23 < Hippy> And what's up in Kansas City, Lens?
17:24 < Hippy> They have readers that will turn a page, but they're around $4500 each
17:24 < Hippy> I do have the Kindle which is good since I let it read to me while I do the housework, but the range of books for it is still not great
17:24 < Lensman> Well, it's 4th of July weekend, so what's up is what you'd expect. Other than that... I dunno. We had our local SF convention, ConQuesT, over Memorial Day.
17:25 < Hippy> Oh, of course, July 4th. Yes
17:25 < Lensman> Some kerfluffle on the concom, and problems with programming. But as one of the old timers said: "What would a convention be without problems?"
17:26 < Lensman> Distressing to see one of your friends feuding with another of your friends. I want to slap both of 'em upside the head and say "Just cut it out and act like adults!"
17:27 < Hippy> Yes, it's so embarrassing when that happens
17:28 < Hippy> Larry has said 'I don't insist that my friends like each other' but I'm afraid I do insist that, so when they don't it's awkward
17:31 < Hippy> Well, my Significant Other has come online, so I shall bid you folks a fond farewell
17:31 < Hippy> See you in August
17:32 < Lensman> Bye Hippy.
17:33 -!- Hippy [~Hippy@CPE-121-219-169-180.lnse2.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit 
17:41 < Jim> bye
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18:34 < SolBelter> hi Lens, xeno
18:35 < SolBelter> me looks at topic...
18:35 < SolBelter> aaaaaaahh....hmmmm...
18:36 < SolBelter> then crystal certainties filled my mind - and I felt Groggy (so to speak)
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21:45 -!- Fred [~Fred@ip68-3-82-127.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #knownspace
21:45 < Fred> Did I miss it all?
21:46 < Fred> Thanks for the reminder, Sean, even though I booted it. It's on my iCal and everything. :(
21:56 < Xenovalent> Fred: Yeah, I think you did...
21:56 -!- Irssi: #knownspace: Total of 8 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 8 normal]
22:36 < Fred> Oh, well, it's not like I don't get to talk Niven every day on the list.
22:37 < Fred> hey. wait a minute ...
22:37 < Fred> see youse guys next month, hopefully
22:37 -!- Fred [~Fred@ip68-3-82-127.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit ["*g0ne*"]
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