04:38:02 : <Outsider> fredskuentz: I'll pass that on when inxi is around.
04:42:12 : <fredskuentz> Outsider: tell gofffan "Welcome to your second monthly Larry Niven Chat"
04:42:13 : <Outsider> fredskuentz: I'll pass that on when gofffan is around.
06:08:59 : "mik" joined the channel.
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11:55:25 : <Akiraa> rocket propulsion link
11:55:26 : <Outsider> Akiraa: 30 Nov 03:21Z <fredskuentz> tell Akiraa wrong chat
14:28:15 : <fredskuentz> :)
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17:33:46 : <bandersnatch> splot
17:51:49 : <Akiraa> so can you do oil refining without actually burning fuel? say by just applying some form of industrial heat
17:51:56 : <Akiraa> from an electric power plant or nuclear plant
17:57:54 : <bandersnatch> refineries use process heat mostly. you have take that from a volcano or solar if you like.
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18:09:18 : <sean> !chuck
18:09:19 : <HAL9000> When writing "Romeo & Juliet" Shakespeare originally thought about Chuck Norris to play Romeo but in the end this could not happen because no poison could kill Chuck Norris. Ever. [score=6.364]
18:10:31 : <fredskuentz> !Larry
18:10:39 : <fredskuentz> :(
18:10:40 : <sean> Dont think that is a trigger
18:11:03 : <fredskuentz> if only
18:11:23 : "NickE" joined the channel.
18:11:27 : <andy> pretty sure we could make it one if wanted to
18:11:30 : <andy> Hi NickE
18:11:39 : <andy> !help
18:11:44 : <HAL9000> help: (13 Programs): bbs, botsnack, chucknorris, deepthoughts, dice, excuse, fortune, insult, roshambo, theyfightcrime, tube, twitter, weather (help <topic> for more info)
18:11:45 : <fredskuentz> 2 hours to CHAT
18:12:13 : <NickE> hi all, afk while we have dinner, back in a bit
18:36:48 : <NickE> back
18:41:28 : "mik" left the channel.
18:42:38 : <sean> hey nick
18:45:32 : "mik" joined the channel.
18:48:56 : <NickE> hi Sean
18:50:26 : <NickE> in and out as am fiddling with that Rings of Orbis RPG that was mentioned on the list a few weeks back (due it's RW like structures - though they are more Halo/Orbitals
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19:04:02 : <NickE> hi mik
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19:11:16 : <fredskuentz> hey nick
19:11:19 : <fredskuentz> mik
19:11:24 : <NickE> hi Rob
19:11:26 : <NickE> Hi Frfed
19:11:41 : <NickE> (oh good typing off to a good start :-)
19:13:10 : <NickE> not read any new Niven since last month - still not had time to get to Bowl of Heaven
19:14:20 : <NickE> Saw a comment from Tim Atkinson (1st in ages) that Fate was good. Ought to pick it up really :-)
19:14:37 : "seanflash" joined the channel.
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19:16:11 : <sean> hi romm
19:16:14 : <sean> oops
19:16:17 : <sean> hi ronn
19:16:26 : <NickE> hi ronn
19:16:48 : <sean> closing up the laptop to head for the house. be back in 20-30
19:16:53 : <NickE> brb, got to get mt arse kicked on this rpg i'm fiddling with
19:16:57 : <NickE> k
19:18:44 : <NickE> HA! I just won my first fight (have lost teh previous 14 or so)
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19:23:03 : <andy> it's an invasion of mik-clones!
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19:30:59 : <RobBennett> Lensman pointed me to the existance of this group and suggested I try it. Do you guys know him?
19:31:26 : <NickE> oh yes we know teh Soobs of old :)
19:32:07 : <RobBennett> I figured he would have been around for a while! How do these chat sessions usually go? I heard Niven sometimes shows up.
19:32:49 : <NickE> Larry usually pops in for half an hour before his lunchtime
19:33:17 : <NickE> I think Lens was in teh last chat. There are 1st Sat of every month
19:34:29 : <RobBennett> I've agreed to help Lensman build his Known Space Concordance site. He's done a lot, and there is still a lot left to cover. What do you think of it?
19:35:59 : <NickE> Very comprehensive last time I looked (which was a while back)
19:40:33 : <RobBennett> I'd left off reading Niven for a while and recently came back with it. Started with Neutron Star and worked forward.
19:40:34 : <NickE> was it that long ago, or was that when he started putting it together?
19:40:54 : "Hippy" joined the channel.
19:41:09 : <NickE> Hi DJ
19:41:16 : <RobBennett> I understand that some of the newer stories don't seem to read as well as the older ones did in some people's estimations. Is that the consensus here too?
19:41:22 : <Hippy> Hi, Nick!
19:41:29 : <fredskuentz> It's certainly mine
19:41:38 : <fredskuentz> be warned that Ed Lerner also chats here
19:41:44 : <fredskuentz> he's Larry's co-author
19:41:52 : <fredskuentz> of the later less readable works
19:41:53 : <fredskuentz> :)
19:41:59 : <NickE> Ed is often here more than Larry
19:42:22 : <Hippy> So, do we have a topic?
19:42:46 : <fredskuentz> REVOLUTION sucks?
19:42:50 : <NickE> I like the later works, though tend to agree that they don'r flow as easy as older ones
19:42:52 : <fredskuentz> LAST RESORT sucks?
19:42:56 : <Hippy> Although comparisons of the older and ndwer stories seems like a good one
19:43:07 : <RobBennett> I was more commenting on things like Ringworld Throne and Ringworld's Children rather than the "of Worlds" books being developed now
19:43:19 : <fredskuentz> I'm still struggling to finish FATE OF WORLDS
19:43:51 : <NickE> thing is, if Larry still wrote the same way as he did 40 years ago, we may have got a bit fed up with it
19:43:55 : <fredskuentz> the very idea of me not sitting down and reading the final RINGWORLD novel in one bite is anathema
19:43:56 : <ronn> Computers -- Teh principle cause of adult-onset Tourette's syndrome . . .
19:43:58 : <RobBennett> I had a devil of a time completing Ringworld Throne recently
19:44:05 : <NickE> Not got to Fate yet (will be a while)
19:44:31 : <NickE> Throne was a difficult one and probably where the change in style was most apparent
19:44:53 : <NickE> but then it had been many years since Engineers
19:44:56 : <Hippy> I'd agree there
19:45:10 : <Hippy> Nonetheless, I hae read it several times
19:45:52 : <ronn> I have lots of pages flagged in Bowl of Heaven, which has to go back to the library this week . . .
19:46:02 : <Hippy> I read a review on Amazon abut 'Children' being 'nearly unreadable' in its later parts, but it makes sense if you consider that the narrator, or Louis anyway, has to appear super-intelligent
19:46:10 : <NickE> Children was closer in feel to the first 2, but rattled along so fast and introduced so many new ideas
19:46:33 : <Hippy> But that's what reading Niven is all about
19:46:36 : <NickE> Yeah, that was hard work as it *was* so damn quick
19:46:57 : <NickE> oh definitley new ideas = good
19:47:13 : <fredskuentz> Children is unreadable long before Louis goes Pak
19:47:14 : <RobBennett> If I could ask Larry one question, it would be "why so many 10 syllable names?" :)
19:47:17 : <Hippy> I must get 'Bowl of Heaven'
19:47:29 : <NickE> not got to Bowl yet, but at least have it on the shelf waiting
19:47:52 : <NickE> Had to get Bowl (not least cos of the title origin :-)
19:48:12 : <Hippy> I thnk it'll be a KIndle job for me. I'm not reading too well these days :(
19:48:53 : <NickE> you can ask him if he shows up - should be anytime in teh next hour if he's available and in teh mood
19:49:20 : <RobBennett> I'm sure it's been asked before!
19:49:52 : <RobBennett> What is Bowl about? I'm not familiar with the title.
19:50:02 : <ronn> So presumably no one wants me to start on my questions . . . :-)
19:50:55 : <Hippy> Well, if you say 'spoler aloert' first. . .
19:51:26 : <Hippy> 'Spoiler alert', I mean
19:51:34 : <fredskuentz> Outsider: tell ronn "spoiler alert"
19:51:35 : <Outsider> fredskuentz: I'll pass that on when ronn is around.
19:51:46 : "UncleNasty" joined the channel.
19:51:53 : <UncleNasty> hey all
19:51:58 : <UncleNasty> hi Outsider
19:51:59 : <Outsider> Morning UncleNasty
19:52:29 : <Hippy> Okay, this is getting creepy
19:52:42 : <ronn> Most of 'em are really for Larry, anyway :-)
19:52:43 : <Outsider> ronn: 19:51Z <fredskuentz> tell ronn "spoiler alert"
19:52:44 : <Hippy> Good to see you again, UncleN
19:52:45 : <fredskuentz> did I leave my webcam on again?
19:52:58 : <UncleNasty> hey hippy
19:53:16 : <UncleNasty> what's creepy?
19:53:40 : <Hippy> Chatting with the bot
19:53:43 : <ronn> I was able to interpret that . . . :-D
19:54:00 : <NickE> Hi Neil!
19:54:07 : <andy> Babylon 5 was great (except season 5)
19:54:08 : <UncleNasty> hey nick
19:54:37 : <ronn> Be a lot easier to rip those things if they came pre-perforated . . .
19:54:51 : <UncleNasty> i definitely blame the threatened cancellation for the poor finish in season 5
19:55:17 : <RobBennett> The movies didn't generally help much either. Blame TNT for getting fingers in things.
19:55:24 : <andy> UncleNasty: IIRC, they were actually supposed to only run for four season, and got unexpectedly renewed for a fifth...
19:55:54 : "sean" joined the channel.
19:56:14 : <NickE> wb
19:56:16 : <UncleNasty> hey sean
19:56:32 : <NickE> just going to get a couple of beers, brb
19:56:41 : <UncleNasty> iirc they didn't find out about season 5 going ahead until well into season4, which meant it blew the story arc
19:57:13 : <Hippy> It had a story arc?
19:57:19 : <Hippy> Hi, Sean
19:57:28 : <UncleNasty> but that aside, I still like the show
19:57:45 : <RobBennett> So, what is Bowl of Heaven about?
19:58:20 : <sean> dont know. I am not allowed to buy any Niven books during the holiday season
19:59:17 : <UncleNasty> sounds like a partial dyson sphere
19:59:27 : <Hippy> Pottery, I think
19:59:33 : <UncleNasty> for a second there I was thinking it was the golf-ball-world concept
19:59:45 : <NickE> sorta, the working title was Wok World
19:59:48 : <Hippy> What's that?
20:00:06 : <Hippy> I mean, the golf ball world
20:00:11 : <NickE> oh Dimple World
20:00:43 : <UncleNasty> the golf-ball one? you make a complete dyson sphere in static position around a star and [ut golf-ball type dimples in it so they are deep enough for the surface-G you want and terraform the interior
20:00:44 : <NickE> that was a BDT (big damn thing) that the list came up with years back
20:00:47 : "dmac44" joined the channel.
20:00:56 : <dmac44> Hi guys.
20:01:11 : <UncleNasty> that was it- blanked on 'dimple'
20:01:12 : <sean> hey dmac
20:01:28 : <Hippy> Hi, dmac
20:01:45 : <Hippy> Ah. . .the dimples being on the inside?
20:01:53 : <UncleNasty> dimpleworld lets you have tens of throusands of distinct biomes separated by vacuum and supported by the star's full power output captured by the dyson sphere
20:01:59 : <UncleNasty> the dimples face the stars
20:02:31 : <NickE> a Dyson sphere of radius small eough that surface G was about Earth normal but lots of Dimples on the surface deep enough to have seperate atmosheres and ecosystems - a bit like teh zoo planet in MKW 2
20:02:32 : <Hippy> Ah, of course. The sphere doesn't rotoate
20:02:57 : <RobBennett> What happens to a dyson sphere when the star transistions to Red Giant or goes super nova?
20:03:17 : <Hippy> Depends how tough the sphere is.
20:03:19 : <NickE> we even worked out a mirror system using holes in teh dimples to let sunlight out and reflect back down
20:03:44 : <UncleNasty> like a reflector telescope arrangement
20:03:59 : <Hippy> Iris the holes so you can have a day night cycle. Hmmm
20:04:19 : <dmac44> What happens to a dyson sphere when the star transistions to Red Giant or goes super nova? Turns into Wokworld. :)
20:04:22 : <NickE> it would probably come undre the Bog Smart Object dscription of the Bowl (ie dynamically maintained)
20:04:45 : <NickE> cos all that energy would originally at least be intended for some use
20:04:45 : <UncleNasty> heh. every dimple has a cori-celesti style spire in the middle for the sun-port
20:05:05 : <UncleNasty> brb - she-who-must-be-obeyed needs help
20:05:14 : <NickE> Was it Steve Sloan that did some basic graphics to show this?
20:05:22 : <sean> I think so
20:05:32 : <NickE> may vene have those on teh old PC somewhere
20:06:08 : <dmac44> I may have missed it but how is gravity provided?
20:06:21 : <NickE> (@dmac hehe yeah, thatd do it :-)
20:06:29 : <NickE> the star
20:07:03 : <NickE> the shel is small enough to give 1g at surface level (or a bit below) Insulation would be...challenging
20:07:44 : <Hippy> Yeah, how far are you from the sun to get 1g?
20:07:52 : <NickE> stil bloody big but not like 1 AU big
20:08:06 : <Hippy> Of course, you don't need a G-type start, any star would do
20:08:07 : <NickE> cant remember. SOmeone did the math and worked it out
20:08:37 : "Larry" joined the channel.
20:08:43 : <Hippy> Hi, Larry
20:08:44 : <NickE> Hi Larry!
20:08:47 : <dmac44> Hi Larry
20:08:51 : <ronn> Surface gravity of Sol is about 28 Earth gravities, if that helps . . . .
20:09:01 : <Larry> Hi all. What's up?
20:09:08 : <andy> "surface" of a star is kind of hard to pin down, ronn
20:09:11 : <ronn> Hi, Larry!
20:09:14 : <UncleNasty> back
20:09:20 : <andy> hi Larry
20:09:37 : <Hippy> We're discussing this 'dimpleworld' Really Big Thing
20:09:40 : <NickE> talking very big things
20:09:41 : <UncleNasty> hey larry!
20:09:50 : <NickE> funnily enough :-)
20:09:56 : <Larry> easiest to talk about the photosphere when you're not after something specific.
20:09:58 : <Hippy> Dyson shell with dimples on the outside
20:10:16 : <NickE> life in teh dimples surface G about 1.0
20:10:48 : <NickE> we came up with this on the lists many years back if you remember
20:10:55 : <Hippy> And thus, 'What is the radius of the shell?' and then you cam eon, Larry
20:11:18 : <Larry> I'm familiar with Dimpleworld, but have little to contribute.
20:11:52 : <NickE> been a while: this had all been worked out but we never went any further with it other than a fun idea to kick about
20:12:04 : <ronn> True, but whatever is designated as "1 solar radius" from the center, then use g=GMm/rÂ² for a "test particle" of unit mass m . . .
20:12:08 : "SolBelter" joined the channel.
20:12:40 : <Larry> build it around a wretched little red dwarf. Photocells line the inside. Electric sunlights wherever you want crops. Builders are nocturnal.
20:13:32 : <NickE> yea, thats the beuaty, works with any star, but rubbish stors probably easier to deal with
20:13:42 : <Hippy> Ronn, how did you get that 2 superscripted like that?
20:13:56 : <NickE> stable, not too hot, but plenty of energy for DW needs
20:14:14 : <fredskuentz> Welcome, Larry
20:14:47 : <Larry> if you want 1g, the center has to be too cool to broil you.
20:15:05 : <NickE> and of course you showed us how it could be turned into a spaceship (flare the star, have a hole)
20:15:36 : <andy> if you don't want to go fast, you don't even need to flare the star
20:15:58 : <andy> light pressure would be enough if you're willing to wait a long time to get anywhere
20:16:01 : <RobBennett> Would you build a dyson with a variable-diameter shell to allow for changes based on star activity over time?
20:16:03 : <NickE> yeah,youd have to consider it an active object using all that energy andnot overheating
20:16:14 : <ronn> Alt-0178 on the Num pad in anything which recognizes 8-bit extended ASCII characters. Some other way if everything fully recognizes Unicode (which not everything does, even now . . . )
20:16:27 : <Larry> andy, I don't think the shell will keep up with the star. need mag fields.
20:16:38 : <NickE> An open structure variant with th dimples as discrete sections would help
20:16:48 : <andy> and a completely different way if you're using Linux :)
20:17:12 : <Hippy> I should've thoguht of that , Ronn. Thanks
20:17:13 : <NickE> but if you've managed to build teh shell, that probably is a pre-requisite
20:17:28 : <ronn> "discreet dimples"? Sounds somewhat suggestive . . .
20:18:00 : <andy> Larry: ....I don't remember enough physics to even begin to do the physics on what would happen as the star moved relative to the shell...
20:18:07 : <Hippy> To me, too, but it's very eadly here
20:18:34 : <NickE> In fact, that's how to build it. Start with a non rotating ring and expand ina geodesic manner, adding new habitats as required
20:18:37 : <ronn> "eadly"?
20:19:03 : <Larry> guys, there's no net grav pull on a Dyson shell. Easy proof.
20:19:34 : <Hippy> Sorry, I meant 'early'
20:19:44 : <NickE> yep, so you'd need to actively keep teh star centred if you use it for thrust
20:20:10 : "senax" joined the channel.
20:20:26 : <Hippy> Hi, xenax
20:20:34 : <NickE> Hi Frank
20:20:42 : <senax> Hello. Pretty good turnout this month.
20:20:55 : <NickE> yarp
20:22:00 : <Larry> Then why the silence?
20:22:15 : <Hippy> Shocked awe?
20:22:22 : <NickE> probably should read Bowl before discussing this further as I'm betting you've already covered some of this there
20:22:23 : <sean> Hopefully everyone is typing a long statement
20:22:41 : <UncleNasty> according to Shadow in American Gods, it's because it was 20 after the hour ;-)
20:22:43 : <NickE> (it's next on my list to read)
20:23:09 : <NickE> heh, good book that odd, but good
20:23:10 : <Larry> Nick: so you're speedreading Bowl and willl gat back to us?
20:23:23 : <NickE> i wish!
20:23:24 : <Hippy> LOL
20:24:02 : <NickE> well, we probably can carry on really :-)
20:24:18 : <Hippy> Well, I was thinking about the guy in 'INferno' who speaks Newspeak
20:24:26 : <ronn> So did it ever almost end up being titled "Bound for Glory"? :-D
20:24:33 : <NickE> ronn has read it I think
20:24:38 : <Hippy> He's complaning about his robe in the city of Dis when Benito and Allen come in to get robes
20:24:45 : <NickE> I'm behind in my reading
20:24:58 : <SolBelter> I just finished Bowl - loved it, listening to others comment:)
20:25:25 : <sean> Well, don't comment too much. I have not read it. ;)
20:25:28 : <Larry> It never did. Greg wanted "Shipstar" so it came second after "Bowl". We did do some dithering, though.
20:26:32 : <UncleNasty> apparently I'm not alowed to buy it. i'm guessing it's ordered for xmas
20:26:35 : <SolBelter> Sean, that's why I was quiet
20:26:52 : <NickE> brb
20:27:03 : <ronn> Reread it this week and marked all the points I had questions about. Dunno how many of 'em are actually spoilers, but would probably make little sense to anyone who hadn't read it yet.
20:27:13 : <sean> thanks. I am not allowed to buy Niven books during the holidays.
20:27:16 : <Hippy> Me, too. That's the second pigeon that has hit the side of the house. So something's up
20:28:34 : <dmac44> Hippy: Dinner? :)
20:29:00 : <ronn> "Shipstar" is pretty good, too.
20:29:02 : <ronn> Will that be the end of the story, or do we have to wait for a third or subsequent volume to find out what happens?
20:29:12 : <fredskuentz> too eadly for dinner
20:29:56 : <ronn> @Hippy: Have you checked their legs for message capsules? :-D
20:30:20 : <SolBelter> Ronn, I noticed varient times since last arrivals at Bowl ... (save til others read, to continue discussion)
20:31:04 : <UncleNasty> @Hippy: careful. if it's ads for cheap viagra you're on a spam-pigeon list somewhere
20:31:11 : <Hippy> Dmac, toasty pigeon breakfast, but it had flown away by the time I got out there
20:31:25 : <dmac44> LOL
20:32:07 : <Hippy> LOL
20:32:27 : <Hippy> It's borad daylight and no wind. So I think spam is the reason
20:32:46 : <Hippy> . . .and of course I'm only assuming it was a pigeon this morning because it was one last night
20:32:59 : <Larry> two volumes. we swear.
20:34:04 : <ronn> I probably need to type up a list of questions with page numbers before it has to go back to the library (sorry: disability doesn't allow for many not-absolutely-essential purchases) probably Tuesday (that's the day I figure I will try to go out for errands) and save the list for later . . .
20:34:05 : <sean> two volumes for shipstar or bowl?
20:34:28 : <ronn> Thanks, Larry.
20:34:37 : <senax> I'm getting a little behindâ€¦haven't got Bowl yet and I'm only 3/4 of the way through Fate of Worlds.
20:34:45 : <Larry> one Bowl, one Shipstar.
20:34:59 : <sean> ok
20:35:10 : <SolBelter> Vol 3: Recipes from Bowlworld
20:35:34 : <NickE> well it was Wok WOrld for a while ;-)
20:35:44 : <Larry> :)
20:35:47 : <andy> Ingredients: 15 solar masses of flour, 3 solar masses of butter...
20:36:01 : <ronn> It was so interesting I hated to find out I'll have to wait for another volume to find out what happens.
20:36:03 : <dmac44> lol
20:36:06 : <SolBelter> :)
20:38:32 : <sean> I will probably have to wait until christmas afternoon before having a chance to read fate or bowl.
20:39:42 : <Hippy> Yes, but until then, there must be other things to type about
20:41:30 : <Hippy> It's like coughing in a library here :)
20:41:36 : <sean> trying desperately to come up with something.
20:42:21 : <sean> recently reread grendle from Neutron Star.
20:42:33 : <Larry> we've had several days of barely sensed rain here in LA NW.
20:42:38 : <Hippy> Well, if fictional characters or characters from fiction can turn up in Hell, then any of Allen Carpentier's creations culd, too, presuming they were sinful enough
20:42:58 : <sean> are Grogs really de-evolved Slavers and if so how did they survive suicide night?
20:43:16 : <UncleNasty> we've had -5c and heavy frost today. It's very pretty but absolutely sucks to walk in
20:43:42 : <Larry> true, Hippy, but did you find fictional characters in Hell? (barring Devil, Minotaurs, etc.)
20:43:45 : <Hippy> Torrential rain here on Friday night
20:44:07 : <UncleNasty> didn't we argue out that it could be because they were matrilineal and the slaver females were non-sentient
20:44:16 : <Larry> I dither regarding Grogs.
20:44:19 : <ronn> American Standard humo(u)r warning . . . A wide courrogated organic-appearing tube several astronomical units long, wrapped around a star almost in a square except that instead of the ends joining up about midway through the last side it bends outward about at a right angle and narrows somewhat toward an opening that emits exhaust as peristalic waves move longitudinally along...
20:44:22 : <ronn> ...the tube . . . yes, friends it's the justly infamous "Bowel of Heaven" . . .
20:44:23 : <Hippy> Yes, the man who complained about his robe spoke Newspeak. "Double plus ungood"
20:44:34 : "Lensman" joined the channel.
20:44:42 : <andy> sean: they had been knocked unconcious at the time...being unconcious, they were unable to receive the suicide signal (and had they received it, would not have been able to carry out the instruction)
20:44:48 : <NickE> <groan>
20:44:52 : <Lensman> Hi fen!
20:44:58 : <Lensman> Hi Rob, glad you could make it!
20:44:59 : <NickE> hey Lens
20:45:05 : <RobBennett> Thanks
20:45:10 : <dmac44> Hi Lens.
20:45:27 : <NickE> Rob did you ask your question?
20:45:28 : <SolBelter> hi Lens
20:45:30 : <ronn> Hi, Lens!
20:45:52 : <Hippy> Hi Lens
20:45:54 : <fredskuentz> hey lens
20:45:54 : <Lensman> Dunno if Rob said so, but he volunteered to help out with the Known Space Concordance!
20:46:00 : <NickE> aye
20:46:25 : <Hippy> Very nice of you, Rob
20:46:42 : <sean> andy, I can accept that reason.
20:46:43 : <RobBennett> No. Larry, this is a stupid question, but I was wondering from a writer's perspective why you used such long syllabic names in Ringworld Throne. Was there a particular reason?
20:47:05 : <Larry> concordance: yay! I'm too lazy to do it myself.
20:47:06 : <Lensman> Hopefully that will motivate me to apply my nose to the same grindstone. I've neglected that too long.
20:48:07 : <NickE> Lens how long have you been working on that?
20:48:41 : <Larry> Names are always a problem for me, if not for all writers. Sometimes I get something eight. See FOOTFALL: everything there is intentional.
20:49:09 : <Larry> Lens, am I getting ahead of you?
20:49:44 : <Lensman> Larry: Uh... if I say "Yes" will you slow down? No. NO NO NO NO NO!
20:49:52 : <NickE> :-)
20:50:14 : <Lensman> First date in the Concordance is April 27, 2007.
20:50:36 : <Lensman> But seriously, Larry... between you and Ed, you're putting out material much faster than I'm indexing it.
20:50:41 : <RobBennett> Thanks, Larry.
20:51:15 : <Lensman> I confess I've done pretty much nothing for the past year. As I said, hopefully the new blood (Hir, Rob!) will motivate me to actually do something this coming year.
20:51:39 : <Lensman> (That was supposed to be "Hi, Rob!)
20:51:55 : <RobBennett> @lensman: that's where I come in. I'm going to help pick up the slack at least for the in-between stuff (between old and most recent products)
20:52:08 : <NickE> shiny
20:53:45 : <UncleNasty> crap I have to go walk the dog. I leave this for your perusal http://bit.ly/TBbTXy
20:53:48 : <UncleNasty> back soon
20:54:13 : <Lensman> Gosh, it's been 5-1/2 years, and I've hardly gotten a good start. *sigh* I really need to flip to a smaller magnification on the microscope.
20:55:00 : <NickE> (popping back and forth between here and here (www.ringsoforbis.com) - RPG based on modified RWs - most like Ian Banks' Orbitals as far as I can make out without reading teh Softwire books
20:55:28 : <NickE> later Neil
20:55:46 : <Lensman> Don't think I've read anything by Ian Banks.
20:55:54 : <Lensman> Any good?
20:56:30 : <NickE> Quite like a lot of it. Very large scale SF, great ideas and he's a good writer, though some is less easy to get through
20:57:17 : <NickE> but, yes, the Culture books are worth reading and The Algebraist (not a Culture book) is great. Nit read any of his mainstream stuff though
20:57:59 : <Lensman> Mainstream? Are they still publishing that? ;-0
20:58:08 : <NickE> heh
20:58:19 : <NickE> apparently
20:59:01 : <Lensman> Rob: Have you started on PROTECTOR yet?
20:59:22 : <ronn> FWIW, it's "Iain M. Banks"
20:59:26 : "gofffan" joined the channel.
20:59:34 : <sean> hi goffan
20:59:38 : <RobBennett> Started the review process. It's only been about two weeks since I read it, so it's still fresh in my mind. One of my favorite books!
20:59:40 : <gofffan> Hey sean
20:59:41 : <Outsider> gofffan: 04:42Z <fredskuentz> tell gofffan "Welcome to your second monthly Larry Niven Chat"
20:59:41 : <Hippy> I was reading the other day that the top-selling e-book made $500 000 and the top-selling conventional book made $50 million, so yep, there's still mainstream oiut there
20:59:54 : <NickE> when hes writing SF anyway. Plain Ian BAnks for mainstream stuff
21:00:15 : <Lensman> "Review process" means what?
21:00:36 : <Lensman> Anyway, sounds like I picked a good project for you, if you only read it 2 weeks ago!
21:00:41 : <sean> Rob, one of my favorites as well.
21:00:54 : <NickE> absolutely one of my faves
21:00:56 : <RobBennett> Methodically going through page by page and pulling details out that are worth putting in the concordance
21:01:12 : <ronn> My point was it's "Iain" not "Ian", in case you are searching for him on-line . . .
21:01:15 : <fredskuentz> Hi, Richard, glad you could make it :)
21:01:23 : <Lensman> Oh, okay. I thought you said you were doing the summary first. But that's fine, either way.
21:01:26 : <gofffan> finally!
21:01:34 : <NickE> oh, yeah, well typos are my middle name here
21:01:47 : <NickE> hi gofffan
21:02:00 : <Hippy> Hi, gofffan
21:02:02 : <gofffan> Nick, good to be back.
21:02:06 : <gofffan> Hippy!
21:02:09 : <RobBennett> I thought I'd do both together
21:02:28 : <ronn> "Ian" _is_ the more common spelling . . .
21:02:59 : <NickE> aye well hes Scottish :-)
21:03:01 : <Lensman> Do both together: Wish I could split my concentration like that!
21:03:05 : <Hippy> I ran into an 'Eoin' in New Zealand
21:03:39 : <Lensman> I'm lousy at multi-tasking.
21:03:40 : <NickE> We have an Eoghan worjing on clinical trails
21:04:16 : <NickE> (Irish clinician)
21:04:23 : <sean> then there is Euan down in New Zealand
21:04:47 : <NickE> Lots of variants it seems
21:04:48 : "Louis_Wu" joined the channel.
21:04:56 : <sean> Hi Louis
21:04:58 : <Louis_Wu> walks off the stepping disk
21:05:07 : <NickE> Welcome Louis!
21:05:12 : <Louis_Wu> Salutations!
21:05:17 : <NickE> </Speaker>
21:05:20 : <Hippy> Well, Euan would be 'Ewen', wouldn't it?
21:05:21 : <Louis_Wu> Hi sean, Nick
21:05:24 : <Lensman> Greetings, Flatlander.
21:05:33 : <NickE> brb
21:06:40 : <ronn> Just in case anyone wondered about the color scheme I'm using today, it's expressing my (doubtless unsurprising) preference in a[n American] football game that's about to start . . .
21:07:07 : <sean> I am about to flip to it
21:07:15 : <Lensman> Ronn, I'm seeing boldface but not a different color for your text.
21:07:35 : <Hippy> Not the Superbowl? I thought that was in January
21:07:40 : <sean> his text is backgrounded in Alabama Crimson
21:07:41 : <Akiraa> hello
21:07:59 : <Hippy> Hi, Akiraa
21:08:00 : <Lensman> Welcome Akiraa!
21:08:07 : <ronn> Well, I'm just glad something is going through . . .
21:08:16 : <Louis_Wu> Greetings Akiraa
21:08:26 : <andy> Hippy: Superbowl is in February next year - falls on my wife's birthday.
21:08:44 : <andy> (fortunately for me, neither she nor I care for the sport)
21:08:55 : <Hippy> Ah. So, what's the game for today, then?
21:09:24 : <sean> Alabama vs Georgia. SEC championship
21:09:35 : <ronn> #2 Alabama versus #3 Georgia for the SEC championship and a shot at the national championship.
21:09:53 : <Louis_Wu> Anyone have any theories or ideas about why spectator sports are so popular....?
21:10:02 : <RobBennett> Back to the subject at hand; without spoilers, what is the consensus on whether it really was the Pak who built ringworld or not? The books seem to support for, but I've read others who are against.
21:10:03 : <Hippy> South Eastern Conference?
21:10:08 : <sean> yes
21:10:38 : <Hippy> I say Pak, too
21:10:38 : <Louis_Wu> Pak built the ringworld...
21:10:58 : <Lensman> I'd guess team sports are the closes things we have to the Roman circus. Physical competition... but less blood.
21:11:09 : <gofffan> I always thought it was the Pak. Who else?
21:11:10 : <NickE> Pak fits best, but ask the man :-)
21:11:19 : <andy> Hippy: They're also talking college football; not professional (NFL) which is the organization responsible for the SuperBowl.
21:11:22 : <Hippy> Well, go Alabama, anyway. I'm just happy to see that South Africa is whippping Australia in the cricket
21:11:43 : <andy> Outsiders could have originally built the Ringworld...then the Pak discovered and "adapted" it to their needs.
21:11:47 : <Larry> I say Pak.
21:11:48 : <ronn> Less blood, just broken bones and concussions :-(
21:12:10 : <RobBennett> Lens has a good article about reasons why the Pak *couldn't* have built ringworld. It is conjecture, but brings up some interesting points.
21:12:10 : <senax> Of course "national championship" should be in quotes...
21:12:12 : <andy> Well, Larry says Pak so I guess that's the last word on it.
21:12:22 : <Lensman> The Ringworld books seem to leave the question open for those who want to do so. But I haven't seen any argument that fits better than the Pak.
21:12:34 : <ronn> @Larry: if you say so, that pretty much settles it!
21:12:44 : <Louis_Wu> Pak built the ringworld, because any reasonably cautious species would have built lots of *smaller*, tilted rings that orbit the sun. Having the sun at the center is outragious...and only the Pak have that kind of confidence.
21:12:57 : <sean> the outsiders building a structure that has gravity and air makes no sense
21:13:29 : <Hippy> And Earth temperature
21:13:40 : <Lensman> Rob: And you haven't read RINGWORLD ENGINEERS, so you haven't read Proserpina's story of the Pak expedition which built the Ringworld. She claims to be one of the actual Engineers. Of course, we're free to think she was lying, but her story seems to fit what Larry has said in comments about the stories.
21:13:56 : <Lensman> Rob: Oops... I mean you haven't read RINGWORLD'S CHILDREN.
21:13:57 : <Hippy> As to 'national championship', it makes as much sense as 'World Series'
21:13:58 : <RobBennett> Don't you mean Ringworld's Children?
21:14:16 : <RobBennett> Ah, that would make more sense.
21:14:22 : <ronn> I presume "an as yet unknown species" is always possible . . . ;-)
21:14:32 : <sean> agreed, ronn
21:14:53 : <RobBennett> In spite of Larry's recent comment here! Kind of settles the question for me! :)
21:14:59 : <Lensman> Ronn: Sure.
21:15:36 : <Akiraa> there is no plan for ringworld continuation, is it?
21:15:53 : <Lensman> Actually I'm surprised Larry answered that. He usually says something like "You know as much as I do" to questions like that.
21:15:58 : <dmac44> Can we design a species that would eat the Pak for breakfast?
21:16:33 : <RobBennett> I vote for Babylon 5's Shadows and Vorlons! :)
21:16:45 : <ronn> I wasn't contradicting Larry. (No way!) Just suggesting a possible "out" if needed . . .
21:17:02 : <Larry> Thing is, I'm persuadable. I think Pak, but...
21:17:39 : <NickE> :-)
21:17:43 : <Louis_Wu> It HAS to be pak....
21:18:10 : <Hippy> Out of all the knowns species, anyway
21:18:18 : <Louis_Wu> Hippy: yah
21:18:22 : <fredskuentz> Akiraa, FATE OF WORLDS says "explosive finale to the Ringworld ... series" right on the cover
21:18:33 : <fredskuentz> cover blurbs wouldn't lie to us?
21:18:34 : <fredskuentz> :)
21:18:48 : <SolBelter> quick, we need a Grog to fill Larry's mind with crystalline certainties...
21:18:50 : <Akiraa> ooh, was not aware of that new one :)
21:18:51 : <RobBennett> Marketing: The Supreme Power in the Universe
21:19:32 : <Akiraa> a film or series based on Known Space?
21:19:37 : <Lensman> A species that would eat protectors for breakfast? I nominate the Puppeteer equivalent of protectors. Hindmost/Baedecker is already nearly as smart as a Protector himself.
21:19:44 : <Hippy> Tnuctip built the Ringworld, because they were told to build a small one and then not Told to stop
21:20:19 : <RobBennett> Larry, can the Grog indeed only reach halfway around their own world working together or can they really cross intersteller distances with their mind powers? What do you say?
21:20:24 : <Larry> cute, Hippy.
21:20:30 : <Lensman> LOL @Sol
21:20:57 : <Larry> as per Grogs, you know as much as I do.
21:21:04 : <NickE> Motie Warriors ona physical level maybe, tho wrong universe
21:21:23 : <RobBennett> Aw, if Lens hadn't tipped his hand, I would have got a definitive answer!!!!
21:21:25 : <NickE> heh
21:21:37 : <Hippy> Assume a Thrint that wants a lot of real estate. Thus the Ringworld is a lot older than we think it is
21:22:00 : <Hippy> The Ringworld has 'ostentatious' thrint' written all over it
21:22:12 : <Hippy> And sunfloweers, bandernsatchi. . .
21:22:17 : <Lensman> So we need a crossover between MOTE, Known Space and "All the Myriad Ways" to get Motie warriors to meet protectors. But protectors would eat them for lunch unless taken by surprise.
21:22:45 : <NickE> probably true
21:22:54 : <Hippy> Not if the Mediators negotiate
21:22:54 : <Lensman> Rob: Yeah, I shoulda kept my mouth shut. Rats!
21:23:39 : <dmac44> Hippy: Pak negotiate?
21:23:58 : <dmac44> I don't think so.
21:24:01 : <Hippy> Mediators are good at it
21:24:16 : <Lensman> Right, I'm having trouble with the concept of protectors negotiating. Only if they actually want to...
21:24:17 : <dmac44> Not if they're dead.
21:24:18 : <sean> but if the slavers had the ringworld built it would of been by the tnuctipun and the the ringworld would of been a living creature.
21:24:40 : <NickE> well, it has bandersnatch on it
21:24:57 : <Hippy> Two thrintun get into a bidding war. One says he has three planets, one says he has five, one other wants a million planets. NO, three million! Get cracking, tnuctip slaves!
21:25:09 : <dmac44> Sean: which it is more like now after the nanobots
21:25:12 : <Hippy> X years later. . .but after Suicide Night. . .
21:25:13 : <Lensman> If Slavers had built the Ringworld, the foundation would be a stasis field, and not /scrith/.
21:26:00 : <Akiraa> there was a story about a cubic planet rotating around a cubic star... why would someone do that, 'because they can'
21:26:00 : <RobBennett> I've got to see a concert my daughter is in. It has been fun chatting with you all. Thanks for the opportunity.
21:26:03 : <Louis_Wu> What other species would use giant plasma jets from the sun as a defense...??
21:26:06 : <Hippy> A stasis field that can control magnetcc effects in the sun?
21:26:07 : <Larry> lensman, you're right. stasis field for the Ringworld floor.
21:26:23 : <Louis_Wu> Have fun RobBennet
21:26:35 : <dmac44> If you believe the Man-Kzin franchise stories the T had really strong hull material like GP stuff.
21:26:43 : <Hippy> Bye, Rob. Nice to meet you
21:26:56 : <gofffan> Bye.
21:26:59 : <sean> i disagree with a stasis field for the floor. one oops in power and the thing flies apart.
21:27:02 : <Lensman> You could put the superconductor grid *above* the foundation.
21:27:33 : <Lensman> sean: Nonsense. You have multiple redunancy. Really, really multiple. Not just three.
21:27:51 : <Hippy> Also, a stasis field would be very noticeable. . .but that's what the thrint would want
21:27:51 : <sean> a solid foundation makes more sense.
21:27:54 : <dmac44> stasis fields take a lot of power.
21:28:14 : <sean> and you can not sculpt a stasis field
21:28:18 : <Hippy> Hmm. . ..there's more to this alternate view stuff than I thought
21:28:24 : <NickE> not once established
21:28:31 : <Larry> my problem, often stated: stasis fields can;t be made consistent.
21:28:58 : <Lensman> Obviously you sculpt the foundation before you wrap the stasis field around it. And before you spin it up to speed, so you don't need an ultrastrong material to start with.
21:28:59 : <ronn> @Akiraa: Other than when Superman remodeled Bizarro World for them ?
21:29:09 : <Akiraa> I wonder if the furry movement was triggered by rishathra (or the other way maybe?)
21:29:35 : <Lensman> Furry fandom predates RINGWORLD ENGINEERS.
21:29:49 : <sean> i thought of the weaker foundation with stasis backup on the way into the kitchen
21:29:57 : <ronn> @Lens: Maybe an actual light blue ribbon? :-D
21:30:12 : <Lensman> ronn: Now you're talkin'!
21:30:27 : <fredskuentz> dmac, why do you think stasis fields take lots of power?
21:30:40 : <fredskuentz> the slaver boxes lasted billions of years
21:30:43 : <Louis_Wu> Only the pak have the audacity to put the sun at the center....
21:31:24 : "Jim" joined the channel.
21:31:28 : <Lensman> True, it would take lots of power to wrap the entire Ring foundation in a stasis field all at once. Can we do it in sections? I think we can, and the fields join as they are activated.
21:31:38 : <sean> Hi Jim
21:31:50 : <Jim> hi
21:31:52 : <Louis_Wu> Salutations Jim
21:32:04 : <NickE> as Larry said (and we've gone over many times) Stasis fields are neat, but it's the KS equivalent of the Transporter isse in Trek - just too damn powerful tech
21:32:30 : <Lensman> Yes, we must assume that the Tnuctipun built stasis fields can last billions of years. Perhaps reliably so?
21:32:32 : <NickE> once you go into all possible uses and ramifications
21:32:40 : <dmac44> I thought it took a lot of power to fire them up.
21:33:11 : <NickE> oh reliable sure, but extrapolate uses and it's impossible to easily see why *not* to use them everywhere
21:33:12 : <Larry> lunch calls. Be seeing you.
21:33:16 : <Lensman> Obviously the amount of power depends on the size.
21:33:24 : <Jim> bye Larry
21:33:26 : <NickE> Thanks for dropping in Larry, p;leaseuer
21:33:26 : <sean> later Larry
21:33:27 : <ronn> @Louis: Where would you put it? On the rim, so the "Ring"world has a bright sparkler of a gem (and then the star should presumably be alpha Coronae Borealis . . . )?
21:33:30 : <Hippy> Okay. Scritch passes 40 percent of the neutrinos that hit it. Staiss fields would refelct the neutrino back into the sun. The Tnuctip think this a bad idea, for whatever reason, so they find something else to use instead
21:33:30 : <dmac44> bye Larry
21:33:36 : <Lensman> Bye Larry!
21:33:39 : <Jim> I slept in until 4:30 pm today.
21:33:40 : <Hippy> 'Bye, Larry
21:33:45 : <ronn> Bye, Larry!
21:33:58 : <gofffan> Could Fist of God exist with a statis field? Bye Larry!
21:34:00 : <Hippy> Merry Christmas, too
21:34:03 : <Louis_Wu> ronn: Nope---smaller rings orbiting the sun. Tilt the rings and you don't need shadow squares....
21:34:04 : "Larry" left the channel.
21:34:05 : <NickE> indded
21:34:09 : <Lensman> No, no Fist-of-God.
21:34:10 : <fredskuentz> does a stasis field bounce neutrinos?
21:34:13 : <NickE> wups too late
21:34:16 : <NickE> yes
21:34:17 : <fredskuentz> we know they don't come out the other side
21:34:26 : <NickE> (or that)
21:34:40 : <ronn> It's only 14:34 now . . . ;-)
21:34:42 : <fredskuentz> but does that mean they reflect, or do they stop dead and just hang around the surface
21:34:43 : <NickE> they reflect hyperwave
21:34:56 : <Lensman> A stasis field bounces every form of energy except gravity, and that affects everything as a whole... does not affect what's inside the field directly.
21:35:15 : <ronn> That's 15:34 . . . :(
21:35:23 : <NickE> thats how I understand it
21:35:24 : <Lensman> Reflect. That's why the stasis field is a perfect mirror.
21:35:34 : <NickE> (like I understand stasis!)
21:35:56 : <Akiraa> a nice rendering of ringworld http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6Uc4Hlj2kQ
21:36:01 : <Lensman> Well of course, my assertions here are only my interpretation of canon.
21:36:11 : <ronn> Like anyone does!
21:36:23 : "gofffan" left the channel.
21:36:30 : "gofffan" joined the channel.
21:36:57 : <Louis_Wu> No time passes inside the stasis field, so no info in or out. That's why it *appears* to be a mirror....
21:37:03 : <Lensman> Maybe someone can convince me I'm wrong.
21:37:18 : <Hippy> What about some redundancy? The tnuctip build it with stasis fields. Along come the Pak and say 'This places looks nice'. A space war ensues
21:37:33 : <sean> another argument for pak building the ringworld. In protector it is mentioned that the books in the library would survive a nova explosion. clearly they are made of some offshoot of scrith.
21:37:41 : <Hippy> The stasis fields are shut down due to damage, but fortunately the tnuctip had a back up in scrith
21:37:52 : "SolBelter" left the channel.
21:37:58 : <dmac44> so the ringworld stasis field would reflect all heat back up (it wouldn't be dumped to space on the backside). It'd get hot.
21:38:14 : <Lensman> If the Ring was built with stasis fields, then why is it made of /scrith/? Sorry, doesn't work for me.
21:38:19 : <ronn> @Lens: You're wrong.
21:38:20 : <ronn> (P.S. About what?) :-D
21:38:23 : <Hippy> They would've come flutteringh liek butteflies from a hydrogen bomb explosion, or something like that
21:38:24 : <NickE> nice vid
21:38:43 : <Hippy> Note that we're chatting up a storm now that Larry has gone. . .jeez
21:39:05 : <Jim> Has Ed been here?
21:39:09 : <sean> not yet
21:39:20 : <Lensman> But now you're saying the Tnuctipun invented /scrith/. That's multiplying entities beyond necessity, as we know the Pak have twing, a very similar material, and the Slavers don't.
21:40:26 : <sean> Ed did not email me about whether or not he would show.
21:40:32 : <Hippy> Well, it's not said that the Salvers don't, but I'll take your point
21:40:48 : <Lensman> dmac has a good point; a stasis field foundation would result in a hotter habitat.
21:40:51 : <Hippy> Jim, are you still off the chewing tobacco?
21:40:59 : <Jim> No
21:41:19 : <Hippy> Oh :( Well, you fought the good fight
21:41:28 : <Jim> Hurricane Sandy resulted in me getting hooked on it again.
21:41:48 : <Jim> I will try again later.
21:41:56 : <Lensman> Hippy: Okay, but we can at least say the Thrintun don't use twing to build their spaceship hulls. Those sneaky tnuctipun... !
21:42:41 : <Hippy> So, somewhere on the Ringworld there may be some tnuctipun
21:42:52 : <Hippy> No, hang on, I'll retract that
21:43:02 : <Lensman> Now *there* is a story I'd like to see!
21:44:02 : <Hippy> Me retracting something? Okay
21:44:07 : <ronn> @Jim: Sandy blew a plug right into your mouth? :-S
21:44:26 : <Hippy> "It was a dark and stormy night. No, wait. It was hot and quiet. . ."
21:45:13 : <dmac44> The T make a better challenge than the Outsiders for the Pak. Outsiders do not do tempature, gravity, etc. well. The T want the same real estate as the Pak (and may be as smart as they are).
21:45:27 : "Louis_Wu" left the channel.
21:45:28 : <sean> In the Hall of the Mountain King is a tnuctipun story. by Pournelle and someone else.
21:45:49 : <Hippy> S M Stirling
21:46:00 : <dmac44> Sean: yes, and the T had GP like material for their hulls.
21:46:09 : <Jim> Ronn, yes.
21:46:37 : <sean> I am going to start doing that as well. T for that species that is really hard to type.
21:46:59 : <Hippy> Plus, have you ever spelt it backwrds?
21:47:12 : <Hippy> . . .as Poul Anderson spointed
21:47:13 : <Hippy> out
21:47:35 : <Jim> nupticunt
21:47:49 : <Lensman> No one would have believed, in the last days of the 29th century, that the Ringworld was being watched keenly and closely by intelligences greater than hominids', yet as mortal as their own; that as the natives busied themselves about their various concerns they were scrutinized and studied...
21:48:23 : <Hippy> Nice, Lens
21:48:37 : <Hippy> Well, in the singular, Jim
21:48:40 : <ronn> Here's a thought: Dimpleworld built out of [transparent] GP hull material?
21:49:41 : <sean> whats that from? this island earth? plan 9?
21:49:43 : <Lensman> Yet across the gulf of the Ring, intellects vast and cool and unsympathetic-- and really really cunning-- regarded the remains of the City Builder empire, and slowy and surely drew their plans against them...
21:49:44 : <Jim> please spell it out for me
21:50:04 : <Hippy> War of the Worlds, Sean
21:50:12 : <sean> ah, yes
21:50:32 : <Hippy> Tnuctip = Pitcunt
21:51:09 : <Hippy> Beats a certain word describing an incestuous relationship as an insult, doesn't it?
21:51:10 : <Jim> Is that like armpit F*******?
21:51:11 : <Lensman> I thought one advantage of Dimpleworld is it doesn't need an arbitrarily strong building material? Am I wrong?
21:51:35 : <ronn> "nupticunt" I don't get it . . . except for the obvious inclusion of one of George Carlin's 7 Words as the last sylablel. . .
21:51:53 : <Hippy> That's it, ronn
21:51:58 : <NickE> potentially you don't need scrith levels as it doesnt spin
21:52:02 : <ronn> O.
21:52:04 : <NickE> has to be tough mind
21:52:39 : <NickE> space elavator levelsof strength maybe
21:52:40 : <Hippy> Perhaps I've led a sheltered and polite life, but I wouldn't write 'Dear Pitcunt' on a Christmas card :)
21:52:40 : <Lensman> Dimpleworld is built where the attraction from the sun's gravity is approx. 1 gee, right?
21:52:50 : <NickE> yes
21:52:56 : <Hippy> Yep, Lens
21:53:23 : <Lensman> So yeah, carbon nanotube material should be sufficiently strong. Maybe even something weaker than that, I dunno.
21:53:29 : <Hippy> Ooh, stick Dimpleworld around a neutron star
21:53:35 : <andy> actually with dimpleworld you don't need the sun to provide all of the mass for the gravity
21:53:36 : <ronn> What I was mainly thinking about when Dimpleworld was mentioned earlier in the chat was making it ut of something transparent . . .
21:53:56 : <NickE> I'm sure there would be a way to do this with standard matter
21:54:09 : <andy> you can also include the mass of the shell itself as part of the mass of the system
21:54:12 : <NickE> not some exotic quantum engineered version
21:54:19 : <Hippy> Saran Wrap
21:54:29 : <Lensman> We hope it's an old, cold neutron star? Otherwise, there's gonna be a hellish rotating magnetic field...
21:54:37 : <ronn> End of the 1Q: nothing like last week's game . . .
21:54:41 : <andy> (there's some weird math that happens with spheres, that means you can treat all the mass as being at the center of the system)
21:54:44 : <sean> Ordinarily I would do it with transparent aluminum
21:54:50 : <NickE> heh
21:55:13 : <Hippy> LOL, Sean
21:55:46 : <dmac44> lol
21:55:54 : <Hippy> So, Dimpleworld is made of transparent aluminium, and therefore logically built by and for humpback whales
21:55:56 : <Lensman> A small star is nice for providing gravity and sunlight. Of course you can create artificial sunlight, but are you gonna depend on gravity generators for your gravity? Not the best choice.
21:56:33 : <NickE> no, the whole point was not to need a-grav or grave generation
21:56:35 : <Hippy> I was thiinking of the Smoke Ring star, or something along similar lines
21:56:38 : <NickE> grav
21:56:56 : <Lensman> Right, Dimpleworld is supposed to be failsafe. So, no gravity generators.
21:57:01 : <NickE> yeah, possibly a good choice
21:57:48 : <NickE> but it may still have to have some active controls or in built homeostasis to deal with heat build up dpending how it was made
21:58:01 : <sean> no toMAto juice?
21:58:13 : <ronn> @Andy: Not weird at all, actually. Draw a double cone with vertex at any interior point, and the difference in mass of the segment of a spherical shell intercepted by each end is exactly cancelled out by the difference in 1/rÂ². :-)
21:58:14 : <NickE> so possibly a smart big thing rather than a dumb big thing
21:58:35 : <NickE> or at least a basic reflex enabled big thing
21:58:51 : <sean> georgia on top
21:59:21 : <Lensman> Heat would build up very quickly unless there was some mechanism to release it. I presume that's build into the structure from the start. I think what we want is for the entire surface to radiate in the dim infrared. That makes it impossible to spot from any appreciable astronomical distance, and presumably they want to hide.
22:00:08 : <NickE> thats all presuming a solid sphere - it could be an open geodesic network with just teh habitats with solid bottoms
22:00:34 : <NickE> you'd still get shitloads of space
22:00:46 : <Lensman> True, Nick. And that might be a better way to hide. It looks just like a normal star...
22:01:05 : <NickE> thinka giat buckyball with some filled in segments
22:01:09 : <andy> NickE: I think a structure like that was in one of Allen Steele's novels...
22:01:57 : <NickE> not read them but quite possible once you start playing with teh Dyson concept. It was never intended as a solid sphere to bein with
22:03:39 : <Lensman> Right, so later writers have differentiated between "Dyson sphere" and "Dyson shell". But the idea that you could have that many satellites in independent orbits without any of them colliding... Seems very problematic to me. Perhaps okay as a thought experiment, but not very practical. If just one gets bumped into a different orbit, you have a cascade failure.
22:04:39 : <ronn> "Dim" infrared? The total amount of flux radiating from the outer surface is dictated by the amount of flux falling on the inside = the total flux output by the central star, otherwise the surface keeps heating up until it vaporizes. If you meant "deep" infrared, we have telescopes (mainly space-based since the early 80s) that can see pretty deep into the IR: a "room temperature"...
22:04:43 : <ronn> ...~300K blackbody source is no problem for us to detect.
22:04:58 : <NickE> so structure it with cables to begin with and teh shel is born
22:04:59 : <Lensman> Well fen, unfortunately I have Laser Rangers today. My guests start arriving in 10 minutes or so, and I need to do some cleanup. Until next month... Clear ether!
22:05:10 : <NickE> ttfn
22:05:59 : <UncleNasty> holy moley it's cold out there
22:06:09 : <sean> .weather 40602
22:06:12 : <Outsider> Clear â˜¼, 64.4â„‰ (18â„ƒ), 30.17in (1018mb), Light breeze 5kt (â†‘) - KLOU 21:53Z
22:06:15 : <sean> nah nahy
22:06:27 : <sean> ;)
22:06:45 : <UncleNasty> .weather dundalk,ontario
22:06:46 : <Outsider> Overcast â˜, 32.0â„‰ (0â„ƒ), 30.20in (1019mb), Fog, Light breeze 6kt (â†‘) - CYKF, 21:00Z
22:07:21 : <Jim> .weather elkins,west virginia
22:07:22 : <Outsider> Clear â˜¼, 50.0â„‰ (10â„ƒ), 30.28in (1022mb), Calm 0kt (â†‘) - KEKN 21:51Z
22:07:29 : <sean> incidentally, this is the biggest crowd that has been on the server.
22:07:34 : <sean> a total of 22
22:07:42 : <andy> already, dinner is going to be ready soon so I'm out too - talk to you all later.
22:07:47 : <NickE> wow really?
22:07:49 : <UncleNasty> new server behaving itself?
22:07:55 : <sean> doing fantastic
22:08:00 : <NickE> last month was quite busy as I recall
22:08:11 : <sean> last month was 19 if i remember
22:08:12 : <Hippy> .weather 32826
22:08:13 : <Outsider> Cloudy, 71.6â„‰ (22â„ƒ), 30.22in (1020mb), Light breeze 6kt (â†‘) - KORL 21:53Z
22:08:16 : <UncleNasty> i'll have to show you how to get the logs out of mysql
22:08:26 : <sean> i already know
22:08:39 : <sean> you already told me.
22:08:46 : <UncleNasty> cool. couldn't recall if we'd gone through it
22:08:59 : <NickE> .weather banbury, oxfodshire
22:08:59 : <UncleNasty> my memory has been shot since coming off the medds
22:09:00 : <Outsider> No ICAO code found, sorry
22:09:00 : <sean> i made a cheat sheet
22:09:06 : <UncleNasty> lol
22:09:15 : <dmac44> I'm heading out too. Happy holidays to all. See you next year.
22:09:20 : <NickE> ah N.America only?
22:09:23 : <ronn> .weather 35210
22:09:27 : <NickE> later mate
22:09:34 : <Jim> bye
22:09:36 : <Hippy> 'Bye, dmac
22:09:43 : <UncleNasty> ttfn dmac
22:09:46 : <sean> its the phenny bot. not sure how it is done
22:09:59 : "dmac44" left the channel.
22:10:07 : <UncleNasty> .weather banbury,oxfordshire
22:10:08 : <Outsider> EGTK: no such ICAO code, or no NOAA data
22:10:17 : <ronn> bye
22:10:21 : <UncleNasty> .weather manchester,england
22:10:22 : <sean> but no... hippy got an australian temp
22:10:23 : <Outsider> Clear â˜¼, -3â„ƒ, 1016mb, Light air 2kt (â†‘) - EGCC 21:50Z
22:10:30 : <NickE> .weather oxford UK
22:10:31 : <Outsider> EGTK: no such ICAO code, or no NOAA data
22:10:32 : <NickE> .weather oxford UK
22:10:33 : <Outsider> EGTK: no such ICAO code, or no NOAA data
22:10:41 : <NickE> meh
22:10:44 : <UncleNasty> .weather oxford,england
22:10:44 : <Outsider> EGTK: no such ICAO code, or no NOAA data
22:10:46 : <Hippy> No, I was checking Orlando, FL
22:10:50 : <sean> oh
22:10:50 : <UncleNasty> bizarre
22:10:51 : <ronn> .weather oxford AL
22:10:52 : <Outsider> Clear â˜¼, 68.0â„‰ (20â„ƒ), 30.26in (1021mb), Light breeze 4kt (â†‘) - KANB 21:53Z
22:10:56 : <UncleNasty> .weather oxford
22:10:56 : <Outsider> EGTK: no such ICAO code, or no NOAA data
22:10:57 : <NickE> its fecking cold#
22:11:03 : <gofffan> Weather NYC 39 Farenheit
22:11:08 : <Hippy> You can stick check by airport code, though, I think
22:11:14 : <Hippy> .weather Ymml
22:11:15 : <Outsider> Clear â˜¼, 15â„ƒ, 1017mb, Gentle breeze 10kt (â†‘) - YMML 21:30Z
22:11:24 : <ronn> X-D
22:11:30 : <UncleNasty> .weather MAN
22:11:30 : <sean> !weather banbury, england
22:11:32 : <Outsider> Cloudy, 4â„ƒ, 1017mb, Light Showers of Rain, Moderate breeze 11kt (â†‘) - EGNS, 21:50Z
22:11:35 : <HAL9000> Weather info for Milcombe, Banbury, United Kingdom (updated on 10:11 PM GMT on December 01, 2012) -- Temperature: 31.8°F / -0.1°C -- Windchill: 32°F / 0°C -- Humidity: 91% -- Dew Point: 30°F / -1°C -- Wind: WNW at 3.0 mph / 4.8 km/h -- Pressure: 30.03 in / 1017 hPa (Rising) -- Conditions: Clear -- Visibility: 6.2 miles / 10.0 kilometers -- UV: 0.0 out of 16 -- Clouds: Clear (CLR) : - --
22:11:35 : <Hippy> That was Melbourne Airport
22:11:39 : <HAL9000> Yesterday's Maximum: 39.7°F / 4.3°C -- Yesterday's Minimum: 28.2°F / -2.1°C -- Sunrise: 7:51 AM GMT -- Sunset: 3:57 PM GMT -- Moon Rise: 6:38 PM GMT -- Moon Set: 9:51 AM GMT -- Moon Phase: Waning Gibbous
22:11:48 : <Hippy> WHAT THE FUCK IS IT WITH THESE PIGEONS??????
22:11:59 : <Hippy> Or whatever birds they are
22:12:01 : <UncleNasty> Hippy: more viagra spam?
22:12:02 : <NickE> ahah
22:12:06 : <gofffan> Ha!
22:12:39 : <Hippy> Yep, Neil. In a momnt I'm going to run out and startle the neighbours
22:12:41 : <NickE> should be down to -2 or 3 C tonight
22:13:03 : <ronn> @Hippy: You're supposed to attach your bank account number and send 'em back . . .
22:13:21 : <Hippy> LOL, ronn!!
22:13:51 : <UncleNasty> season1 disc4 now ripping
22:14:19 : <UncleNasty> transferring b5 to my boxee
22:14:20 : <sean> of?
22:14:24 : <sean> ah
22:14:44 : <sean> I have a wd tv live
22:15:02 : <ronn> !weather BHM
22:15:07 : <HAL9000> Weather info for Birmingham, Alabama (updated on 3:53 PM CST on December 01, 2012) -- Temperature: 68°F / 20°C -- Humidity: 45% -- Dew Point: 46°F / 8°C -- Wind: South at 7 mph / 11 km/h -- Pressure: 30.25 in / 1024 hPa (Falling) -- Conditions: Mostly Cloudy -- Visibility: 10.0 miles / 16.1 kilometers -- UV: 0 out of 16 -- Clouds: Mostly Cloudy (BKN) : 5500 ft / 1676 m -- Yesterday's Maximum:
22:15:12 : <HAL9000> 65°F / 18°C -- Yesterday's Minimum: 39°F / 4°C approx. -- Yesterday's Heating Degree Days: 13 approx. -- Sunrise: 6:33 AM CST -- Sunset: 4:38 PM CST -- Moon Rise: 7:25 PM CST -- Moon Set: 8:47 AM CST -- Moon Phase: Waning Gibbous
22:15:24 : <gofffan> I hate waning gibbous
22:15:47 : <NickE> whining gibbons?
22:15:54 : <gofffan> that too
22:15:57 : <sean> I have a scope... I love waning gibbous
22:16:11 : <ronn> I prefer it to whining gibbous.
22:16:14 : <UncleNasty> i think that was a hawkwind concept album from the 70s, no?
22:16:30 : <UncleNasty> possibly "the goodies"
22:16:39 : <gofffan> A character in Episode 2?
22:16:49 : <NickE> Funky Gibbon was a hit fior The Goodies in the 70s :-)
22:17:07 : <gofffan> Darth Gibbous
22:17:11 : <UncleNasty> i have a large collection of the goodies transferred from vhs
22:17:27 : <NickE> Gibbous Dickus
22:17:34 : <gofffan> ha
22:17:40 : <sean> lol
22:17:42 : <Hippy> lol
22:18:11 : <ronn> Forecast for tonite 49Â°F =~ 9.4Â°C . . .
22:18:16 : <sean> now i have to pull life brian
22:18:18 : <UncleNasty> I have a vewy gweat fwiend in Wome, and so on
22:18:38 : <NickE> he has a wife you knw...
22:19:07 : <UncleNasty> Incontinentia... Incontinentia Baboons
22:19:29 : <NickE> :-)
22:19:57 : <Hippy> Buttox
22:20:03 : <Hippy> Incontinentia Buttox
22:20:23 : <UncleNasty> I know, I was folllowing Whining Gibbons and kind of derailed :-P
22:20:30 : <NickE> heh
22:21:18 : <Hippy> Oh, sorry. I thought, you know, with your memory being a bit off
22:21:38 : <UncleNasty> Who said my memory was off??? ;-)
22:21:44 : <sean> you did
22:21:57 : <UncleNasty> note the ";-)"
22:22:01 : <sean> i know
22:22:33 : <ronn> No problem, I lost the train of this conversation awhile back . . . :-(
22:22:46 : <sean> it kind of got timey wimey
22:23:06 : <NickE> theres a train now?
22:23:40 : <Hippy> Yes. Built by the Tnuctip
22:23:45 : <ronn> If there is it's obviously jumped the track . . .
22:23:50 : <sean> so nick, new companion going to show in the christmas ep?
22:24:38 : <NickE> afaik. not been following stuff and no trails yet really
22:25:43 : <NickE> she'll be ther in some capacity I'm pretty sure
22:25:47 : <ronn> Yellow?
22:26:01 : <sean> most likely
22:26:23 : <sean> tho it did take the runaway bride a season before showing i think
22:26:50 : <sean> %08Yellow??
22:26:52 : <NickE> well yes
22:27:13 : <sean> cant think of her name
22:27:21 : <UncleNasty> donna noble?
22:27:25 : <fredskuentz> ick
22:27:25 : <sean> donna yes
22:27:49 : <NickE> oi Spaceman!
22:27:55 : <fredskuentz> the new companion is in the Xmas ep
22:28:09 : <ronn> . . . .oops . . . @Sean: wrt [16:25] Yellow?
22:28:22 : <fredskuentz> but questions of who she is and how she's there remain ... unanswered
22:28:25 : <UncleNasty> i got to go cook. ttyl folks
22:28:32 : <fredskuentz> buy nasty
22:28:41 : <sean> later django
22:28:42 : <NickE> bye Neil
22:28:47 : <Hippy> 'Bye, UncleNasty
22:29:20 : <Hippy> Sorry to hear about the, you know. . .
22:29:22 : <ronn> Buy Nasty what?
22:29:25 : <ronn> 'bye, Nasty!
22:29:46 : <Jim> bye
22:30:54 : <Jim> Does anyone have any ideas as how to make a force field?
22:30:57 : <ronn> @Sean: "yellow?" was in response to "is just curious" . . .
22:31:15 : <Hippy> Ah. Good one, ronn
22:31:47 : <Hippy> Apparently if you put two force fields together they will breed in captivity
22:32:27 : <sean> ronn, still not following
22:33:05 : <sean> I got dumbed down earlier by having to do a lot of christmas decorations for the gf
22:33:15 : <Hippy> It's a famous book of the 1970's, from Sweden, depicting frank discussions of sex and whatnot
22:33:36 : <ronn> Some people are lucky enough to get to laugh three times at a joke: the first time when they hear it, the second time when it's explained to them, and the third time when they finally get it . . . X-D
22:34:21 : <Hippy> Another good one
22:34:40 : <Hippy> That'd be a good one for a desk calendar
22:35:03 : <sean> i think i finally get it but with no knowledge of the backstory there was no laughter. ;)
22:35:04 : <ronn> @Sean: Q.v. Hippy's explanation. It was also a film. (Never read the book nor saw the movie.)
22:35:43 : <Hippy> Nor have I
22:35:44 : <sean> tie game
22:38:02 : <Jim> Curious Yellow was also a movie.
22:38:05 : <fredskuentz> My parents actually went to I Am Curious Yellow at the theater
22:38:19 : <fredskuentz> with some prominent lawyer and his wife
22:38:25 : <Jim> What did they think, Fred.
22:38:32 : <fredskuentz> they wanted to see what was so scandalous
22:38:39 : <fredskuentz> the next night, the theater was raided
22:39:08 : <fredskuentz> everybody busted for being pervs I guess
22:39:09 : <Jim> I used to have a copy downloaded
22:39:14 : <fredskuentz> that's all I recall of it
22:39:17 : <ronn> @Hippy: It's what I would often tell my classes when one of my gems of astronomical humorÂ¹ fell similarly flat.
22:39:26 : <ronn> Â¹E.g., "Saturn is less dense than water. In fact, it would float if anyone could find a big enough bathtub. However, the only time it's been tried, it left one heckuva ring around the tub . . . "
22:39:29 : <fredskuentz> the stills I've seen seem, shall we say, uninspired?
22:39:48 : <Jim> yup, 1970's Swedish porn
22:39:49 : <sean> heh
22:40:15 : <sean> sounds like you were a pretty good astronomy teacher.
22:40:45 : <Hippy> I was thinking that, too
22:41:14 : <fredskuentz> there's also I Am Curious Blue
22:41:35 : <sean> I do not own a scope but a friend keeps loaning me them. Currently I am using a 6 inch refractor.
22:42:12 : <fredskuentz> odorous flup! I found a DVD rip download of both I Am Curious movies, but it's 16gb!
22:42:13 : <fredskuentz> why?!??!?!
22:42:19 : <ronn> Well, whenever I got there on the first night of class the class was generally long since full and there was a crowd of students waiting for me with "add" slips in their hands for me to sigh . . .
22:42:30 : <sean> two 8 gig avi files
22:43:14 : <ronn> . . . I meant "sign," though sometimes I would "sigh" as well . . .
22:43:55 : <sean> means its probably in hi def or the originals were 8 gig.
22:44:13 : <fredskuentz> it's a dvd
22:44:22 : <fredskuentz> actually it's a rip from a dvd-r
22:44:25 : <fredskuentz> 36 files
22:44:26 : <sean> if you want them smaller, i could take a look through the groups
22:44:44 : <fredskuentz> thanks, sean, I'm just mostly curious how this is so big
22:44:47 : <ronn> Double-sided?
22:44:54 : <fredskuentz> ronn, even then ...
22:45:10 : <sean> no, double layer
22:45:14 : <fredskuentz> it's a playable dvd
22:45:16 : <fredskuentz> right
22:45:27 : <fredskuentz> it would have to be 2 double layer dvds
22:45:31 : <fredskuentz> but it can't be HD
22:45:33 : <sean> right
22:45:51 : <ronn> regular DVD = 4.7GB, double-sided=8.5GB, iirc
22:45:53 : <fredskuentz> what do you do to 4 hours of video to make it 16gb?
22:45:59 : <sean> ronn, yep
22:46:31 : <sean> if you wish, i can pull it and shrink it but your connection speed typically is faster than mine
22:46:49 : <sean> its uncompressed
22:47:27 : <fredskuentz> oh
22:47:29 : <fredskuentz> duh
22:47:33 : <ronn>AL 10, GA 7 at the half: again, hardly like last week against Auburn . . .
22:47:40 : <fredskuentz> I can get the torrent and check the file list ...
22:47:48 : <sean> good game
22:47:59 : <sean> an error on each side
22:49:03 : <fredskuentz> it's a standard dvd
22:49:13 : <fredskuentz> 7 VOB files & change
22:49:17 : <fredskuentz> each a gig
22:49:27 : <ronn> Whereas the rude truth is that last week Auburn made an error by showing up . . . ;-)
22:50:03 : <sean> you can use dvd shrink to make it fit a 4 gig disk
22:50:40 : <ronn> (Final score then was 49-0, for those who may not have paid attention for whatever reason.)
22:51:11 : <gofffan> Like whoever plays the Jets. Guys, it's been a pleasure. Must get back to work. Bye for now.
22:51:29 : <Jim> 59-10 WV over KU
22:51:38 : <Hippy> And I, too, should adjourn
22:51:54 : <gofffan> Bye Hippy
22:51:55 : <Hippy> Merry Christmas, gentlemen, and see you next year
22:52:15 : <Hippy> The Ringworld was buiolt by IKEA
22:52:20 : <Hippy> 'Bye!
22:52:44 : <ronn> 'bye, gofffan, Hippy! Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Happy Holidays or whatever you prefer . . . . !
22:53:07 : "Hippy" left the channel.
22:53:18 : <gofffan> all of 'em will do. Have a great turn of the year!
22:53:20 : "gofffan" left the channel.
22:53:26 : <Jim> bye
22:56:52 : <ronn> Hippy has gone, but . . . it was my impression IKEA never "builds" anything, just provides a kit missing a few necessary parts and a sheet of indecipherable "instructions" . . .
22:59:00 : <ronn> Tap, tap . . . this thing still on?
23:00:18 : <Jim> i am
23:00:31 : <NickE> sorry sidetracked by mad stuff
23:03:28 : <ronn> If everyone were watching the game I would presume they all went AFK for a halftime bathroom break . . . X-D
23:10:02 : <fredskuentz> https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/75229_10151277461132074_1006904048_n.jpg
23:16:26 : <Jim> I have to eat supper now, bye
23:16:30 : <NickE> heh Christmas Dalek
23:16:36 : <NickE> bye Jim
23:16:39 : "Jim" left the channel.
23:18:39 : <fredskuentz> Why is Dina Meyer in so many films that I do NOT want to see?
23:23:49 : <ronn> Even when she is less than fully dressed?
23:29:21 : <ronn> 'Bye, those who left! (I took my own advice to have a pre-emptory bathroom break, as well as to scoop the litter box of what I've been smelling since just before the kick-off and open cans of cat fud and soup and serve them in the appropriate dishes . . . )
23:48:59 : <NickE> getting late, gonna bail. Fare thee well gentle fen
23:49:40 : "NickE" left the channel.
23:56:30 : "ronn" left the channel.
23:58:32 : "ronn" joined the channel.