Chat Log: 13th July 2002

Session Start: Sat Jul 13 13:50:32 2002

[13:50] <Redflame> Hi Redflame

[13:50] <Redflame> Hello!

[13:50] <Redflame> Hello, err....

[13:59] <Redflame> Crazy?

[14:05] <Redflame> "sitting around... no one is making a sound...."

[14:11] *** Treehugger has joined #knownspace

[14:11] <Redflame> Hi Treehugger

[14:11] <Redflame> Hi!

[14:11] <Treehugger> Hi people!

[14:11] <Treehugger> Hi people!

[14:11] <Treehugger> oops

[14:11] <Redflame> You and me are the only ones awake.

[14:12] <Treehugger> Well, I'm half awake.......we got any topic plans?

[14:13] <Redflame> We could talk about the most recent gossipy message Larry just posted to the list.

[14:13] <Treehugger> ???????!!

[14:13] <Redflame> You get digest?

[14:14] <Redflame> Not THAT gossipy.... :-)

[14:14] <Treehugger> Nothing by Larry......

[14:15] <Treehugger> No, no digest here.....digestless.

[14:15] <Redflame> It is timed 23 minutes ago.

[14:16] <Treehugger> Oh. Lemme check.......

[14:18] <Treehugger> Last post in my mailbox is Oliver's, on the Avalon colony. Guess it'll show up shortly.

[14:19] <Redflame> Weird. Olivers is timed 5 minutes AFTER Larry's.

[14:19] <Redflame> Wait. Larry made a mistake. He sent that to the Administrators!

[14:19] <Redflame> I'm certain he meant that for the list!

[14:19] <Treehugger> Ah. Just another weird time-warp thingie, then.

Typical.

[14:19] <Treehugger> Aha!

[14:21] <Treehugger> Maybe, being in Digested mode, he isn't set to send right to the list? Bearing in mind I have no idea how the list actually works, or what Digest mode is...

[14:21] <Redflame> Maybe he is still at his desk. I'll ask him if he wants me to forward it to the list.

[14:21] <Redflame> He usually replies to all to a digest.

[14:21] <Treehugger> Cool. Now I'm all curious!

[14:22] <Treehugger> You'd think a SciFi writer could work a computer...!

[14:22] <Treehugger> :-)~

[14:26] <Redflame> Well... He isn't the only one. I've received Larry's personal mail from at least ONE of his collaborators because she didn't look closely at the question by the mailing program of who she means by "Larry Niven." even on my computer, if I type "Larry Niven" into the "To" field,

my computer asks me if I mean "Carol Phillips at redflame@larryniven.org"!

[14:27] <Treehugger> Too damned helpful!

[14:28] <Redflame> :-)

[14:29] <Redflame> I've received some VERY interesting mail over the years! I've also become VERY careful about that "To" field!

[14:29] <Redflame> brb, gotta go finish making some potato salad.

[14:29] <Treehugger> ok

[14:29] *** Redflame is now known as Red_AFK

[14:36] *** SteveS joined #knownspace

[14:36] <Red_AFK> Hi SteveS

[14:36] <SteveS> hi, all!

[14:37] *** Harry has joined #knownspace

[14:37] <Red_AFK> Hi Harry

[14:37] <SteveS> Hi Frank!

[14:38] <Harry> Hi Steve, Hi Red.

[14:38] <Harry> Hi Tree, err.

[14:38] <Treehugger> Ooo, people! Hello all!

[14:39] <Harry> An early start... That's a good sign.

[14:40] <Harry> You know WesterCon was vastly under attended this year.

[14:42] <Treehugger> What's the usual attendance?

[14:43] <SteveS> DeepSouthCon was smaller than I expected, too. Not much bigger than the usual con in town.

[14:43] <SteveS> This was the first DSC I've ever attended, so I don't know.

[14:43] <Harry> between 2500 and 4000 (dependant on where it is) from what I hears. I'd be suprized if this years topped 1500.

[14:44] <Harry> DSC?

[14:44] <SteveS> DeepSouthCon, which was in Huntsville, AL last month.

[14:45] <Treehugger> They change the locale of Westercon each year? How much?

[14:46] *** Red_AFK is now known as Redflame

[14:46] <Treehugger> Welcome back, Red.

[14:46] <Harry> North South and "OTHER". There's an article on the SCRAMJET Teses here: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/07/020711075955.htm

[14:46] <Redflame> TY. My potatoes are all "saladed" now.

[14:47] <Redflame> It was in El Paso one year, the closest to Houston it has ever gotten.

[14:47] <Harry> Yeah Red.

[14:47] <Treehugger> Maybe they picked the wrong location this year.

[14:48] <Harry> Los Angeles? Wrong Hotel maybe but L.A. Conventions have always been well attended.

[14:48] <Treehugger> Yeah, very strong fan base there.

[14:49] <Harry> The Radison should be spelled RATISON.

[14:49] <SteveS> <g>

[14:49] <Harry> Strong and BIG.

[14:50] <Redflame> My peeve with hotels is that none of the staff seems to ever speak English. And I'm not talking about only in CA or Houston, either, but way north.

[14:51] <Harry> Yupper and un-restricted Hispanic immigration means never getting your order right at a McDonalds.

[14:51] <Treehugger> I'd have to complain about that....loudly. What good is a service staff you can't talk to?

[14:51] <Redflame> You should have to be able to pronounce the items on a menu to work at a restaurant.

[14:51] <Harry> What good is a staff you can'

[14:51] <Redflame> I've been in restaurants before where the help didn't know the word "ice."

[14:52] <SteveS> Ouch!

[14:52] <Harry> t complain to? One that doesn't pass the complaints along... Something that might cost the hotel money.

[14:52] <Treehugger> Gives it a kind of Manuel/Fawlty Towers flavor, though.

[14:53] <Harry> Fawlty Towers is one hotel I'd NEVER check into. Can you imagine a Con held there? (Shudders).

[14:53] <Redflame> I think we should make English the national language. MOST of my ancestors came over here and learned a common language!

[14:53] <Treehugger> Heeheehee!! Make a great story, though!

[14:54] <Harry> Mine too.

[14:54] <SteveS> I wonder what changed since then that keeps immigrants from learning English nowadays?

[14:54] *** Krenon has joined #knownspace

[14:54] <Redflame> Hi Krenon

[14:54] <SteveS> Hi, Krenon!

[14:54] <Redflame> Mexicans don't come here to start a new life. They came here to make some fast money to send home to Mexico.

[14:54] <Krenon> Hi

[14:54] <Treehugger> English isn't supposed to be the main language in KS, is it?

[14:54] <Harry> Check this out please: [link dead] ObNivRef: Larry' time scale was wrong...

[14:54] <Treehugger> Hi Krenon

[14:54] <Harry> Hi Krenon.

[14:54] <Krenon> Hi

[14:55] <Harry> As I recall, they spoke System English. Probably with some other languages words tossed in for spice.

[14:55] <Krenon> It's cold here.

[14:55] *** Vash has joined #knownspace

[14:55] <Redflame> Hi Vash

[14:56] <Redflame> So sorry. Would you rather come here and BAKE?

[14:56] <SteveS> Hi Nesssus!

[14:56] <Harry> Lucky you Krenon.

[14:56] <Vash> Wow a full house

[14:56] <Harry> Hi Vash.

[14:56] <SteveS> Or drown?

[14:56] <Krenon> Perhaps. I'd like a bit of warmth right now

[14:56] <Treehugger> Mid-80's here, finally cooled down.

[14:57] <Harry> About 101 here. Cooler than Phoenix's 112.

[14:57] <Treehugger> Yeesh!

[14:57] <Krenon> OK, there is such a thing as too hot.

[14:57] <Treehugger> It's a "dry heat", right?

[14:57] <Redflame> George, still no answer from Larry regarding that letter.I guess he isn't sitting at his desk waiting for 1 PM to roll around in California. Or maybe he is just getting a bite to eat.....

[14:57] <SteveS> Mid-80s and raining here. It doesn't look like tonight's planetarium thing will have much telescope time...

[14:57] <Vash> Surface of a star maybe

[14:58] <Krenon> In F terms it's about 44 here.

[14:58] <Redflame> Houston is NEVER actually dry, although I don't know how high the temp got today.

[14:58] <Treehugger> Selfish beggar!! :-{

[14:58] <Vash> I didn't think it ever got that

[14:59] <Vash> cold in Australia!

[14:59] <Redflame> You call that COLD? I call that COOL! Sweater weather!

[14:59] <Krenon> Cold in my part of it. OTOH the ski resorts people are happy.

[14:59] <Harry> Southern Australia has been known to get the occasionalsnowflake.

[15:00] <SteveS> Yup, sounds like nice fall weather.

[15:00] <Vash> who is Err?

[15:00] <Krenon> I put a 2 Kw blower heater on at 5 am in here. It's getting bearable now.

[15:00] <Krenon> I can't identify err as anyone I know.

[15:00] <Redflame> Hey, we, the church rented a snow machine for the kidsthe other day. Really , it is small chunks of ice, but the closest to snow these Houstonians have seen. At least in Houston!

[15:01] <SteveS> I don't know, but I think Err is human...

[15:01] <Vash> using attbi.com I think there's several list subbers who use them as an ISP

[15:01] <Krenon> :-)

[15:01] <Redflame> I don't know who err is, but I thought I recognized the handle. Steve, :-)

[15:01] * Redflame smiles at Steve

[15:01] <Treehugger> okay, I gotta ask.....do you actually have seasons in the Midwest, or just hot followed by warm or cool?

[15:02] <Redflame> Texas? We have summer, autumn, spring, and rainy. Rainy is actually rather short, and just heralds summer.

[15:03] <Redflame> But a lot of the trees here are live oaks, meaning that they drop leaves all year, not just in autumn. Many trees do actually loose their leaves, but more due to drought than cold!

[15:04] <Harry> About that early Hominid. The brain size is about that of a chimp's, but the facial structure is quite different. http://sciencenews.org/20020713/fob1.asp Sounds like a BREEDER to me! Now, if they find one with a beak...

[15:04] <Treehugger> Be real funny to PLANT one out there...!

[15:05] *** Corny has joined #knownspace

[15:05] <Redflame> Hi Corny

[15:05] <Corny> Hi @all!

[15:05] <SteveS> hi corny

[15:05] <Vash> Hello Corny

[15:06] <Harry> Hi Corny.

[15:06] <Corny> Did something important already happen? :)

[15:06] <Vash> Nope ;-) - I only just got here!

[15:06] <Redflame> We actually mentioned something regarding a Niven work! Must be a record for how early we got to talking about the works of Niven!

[15:07] <Krenon> Was it expected?

[15:07] <Treehugger> Does an e-mail count as a work of Niven? :-()

[15:07] <Redflame> I never got the idea that breeders were stupid. Just not scientifically advanced. You don't get advanced if someone is taking care of you.

[15:07] <Corny> By the way: Did somebody hear anything about the Ringworld movie?

[15:08] <Vash> Nothing recent

[15:08] <Corny> too bad

[15:08] <Corny> @Redflame: That's an interesting idea

[15:08] <SteveS> Not stupid -- just a little smarter than chimps.

[15:08] <Treehugger> Apparently it's a Patriarch's secret.

[15:09] <Corny> well they are probably as intelligent as the homo habilis, aren't they :)?!

[15:09] <Treehugger> But built somewhat more like us? The chimps, not the Patriarch.

[15:09] <SteveS> Yup, shaped a lot like us, but smaller.

[15:09] <Redflame> Treehugger, if Larry wrote the email, it is on topic.

[15:09] <Treehugger> Intelligence is relative. I know some people NOW who're dumber than chimps!

[15:10] <SteveS> With a chimpy head.

[15:10] <Harry> Or if you have Long Term memory Red. Chimps don't have very long memories it seems. Only f they uses something on a very regular basis.

[15:10] <Redflame> Chimps can't talk, not with words. But yes, they are smarter than people give them credit for.

[15:10] <Corny> I always asked myself how intelligent Grendels are

[15:10] <Corny> "the old" seemed to be quite intelligent - nearly as intelligent as a human

[15:11] <Redflame> I think they are too intelligent for us to justify trying to wipe them off a planet.

[15:11] <SteveS> I suspect they'd be a lot smarter if they were taught complex language from infancy.

[15:11] <Harry> You mean like Mammoths and the Sabretooth Red?

[15:11] <Redflame> There are people who raise chimps in their homes from birth. They still don't talk.

[15:11] <Harry> Aome "Talk" in ASLAN.

[15:12] <Redflame> Well, the current "we" didn't do that. Other people who were looking for something to EAT or merely to survive did that.

[15:12] <Vash> Aslan - CS Lewis lion?

[15:12] <SteveS> American Sign Language

[15:12] <Treehugger> Guess they don't have the brain bits that allow us to form and use words.

[15:12] <Corny> the ability to talk is probably not a proof of intelligence

[15:13] <Treehugger> Got that right.

[15:13] <Corny> in other words: Chimps are not unintelligent just because they are not able to use words

[15:13] <SteveS> But the ability to have some sort of complex language -- spoken or signed -- is proof.

[15:13] <Vash> Agreed, look at most gameshow hosts!

[15:13] <Treehugger> Still, it would allow a higher culture.

[15:13] <Redflame> Not proof of intelligence, just like using tools isn't a perfect test. But it is hard to build a complex society without better communication.

[15:13] <Harry> Beam Piper used the "TALK and Build a fire" rule as a test on non-Human intelligence. I know adults who don't smoke and grew up in All electric Homes who can barely talk.

[15:13] <Treehugger> Agreed, Corny. Most animals are intelligent, just not in our direction!

[15:14] <Krenon> I'd rather not look at gameshow hosts

[15:14] <SteveS> I've see speculations that the reason modern humans surpassed Neanderthals about 40,000 YA in the "Great Leap Forward" is the invention of complex language.

[15:14] <Harry> Me too krenon, However Alex Trebec does display intelligence.

[15:15] <Corny> no - don't you know - the Neanderthals were emphatic - they were not able to kill somebody ;)

[15:15] <SteveS> He displays the ability to look smug when he reads the correct answer off a card.

[15:15] <Krenon> He does? I've never heard of him. I've never seen an Australian game show host that did, but then I try to avoid them.

[15:15] <Krenon> She ones I've heard read the answers as if they meant absolutely nothing to them

[15:16] <Harry> No proof of that Corny, just conjecture.

[15:16] *** Nesssus (Vash@knownspace.demon.co.uk) has joined #knownspace

[15:16] <Redflame> Hi Nesssus

[15:16] <Corny> just a joke Harry

[15:16] <Corny> hi nessus

[15:16] <Nesssus> Damn, Sean just pulled a wire in the other room

[15:16] *** Vash (Vash@knownspace.demon.co.uk) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)

[15:16] <Krenon> The sort of people who thing light years are units of time.

[15:16] <Treehugger> As an aside, the SNL skits of Jeopardy are some of my favs! "Who is Kraven Moorhead?"

[15:17] <Harry> I know people who consider Neanderthal "EMPATHY" as fact... They read too much Jane Aural in my estimation.

[15:17] <Treehugger> Yeah. Empathic animals would go down FAST.

[15:18] <Corny> just another question: Is "Nessus" written with three s in the English version of Ringworld?

[15:18] <Nesssus> Two

[15:18] <SteveS> Nope.

[15:18] <Corny> mean: Nesssus

[15:18] <Krenon> That is Nesssus's own invention.

[15:18] * Redflame laughs

[15:18] <Corny> because I was surprised about your Nick :)

[15:18] <Krenon> originally to get an account with aol

[15:18] <Corny> :))))

[15:18] <Nesssus> The SSS version is my little elaboration - "Nessus" on AOL was already taken when I tried registering for an account years ago

[15:19] <SteveS> Ah!

[15:19] <Nesssus> I often wondered if the original account holder used to get my mail.

[15:19] <Redflame> Corny, I was wondering what language you must have read RW in to ask about the English version! Oh, you mean UK!

[15:19] <Nesssus> But AOL is now a sad memory on my ISP memory lane

[15:19] <Harry> If so Nessus, That user was in for a surprise!

[15:20] <Redflame> Nesssus gets some interesting mail!

[15:20] <Corny> no - I read the German version

[15:20] <Corny> ;)

[15:20] <Redflame> Ah!

[15:20] <Nesssus> Perhaps, perhaps not. He may have been thinking of the Centaur Nessus from Greek Myth which is where Larry originally found the name

[15:21] <Corny> Did you already read the article on the "puppeteer's homepage" - the picture is very good

[15:21] <Redflame> Did the Greek centaur do anything interesting?

[15:21] <Corny> ......the picture of the "puppeteer"

[15:21] <Nesssus> I think the lamest mail I got was from the BBC asking if I wanted to go on a TV show as a glove-puppet puppeteer.

[15:21] <Harry> Supposedly, they taught man the use of the Bow as I recall.

[15:22] <SteveS> He got rowdy at weddings, IIRC.

[15:22] <Krenon> Hercules killed him. Just before he died ...

[15:22] <Nesssus> There was a scene in the Disney film Hercules with the Centaur in it

[15:22] <Harry> Hercules or Achilles?

[15:22] <Krenon> Hercules

[15:22] * Redflame shakes head. Disney....

[15:23] <Harry> Sorry about the Typos... may hands are hurting much today.

[15:23] <Krenon> I haven't seen it but I bet Disney's Hercules was very highly sanitized.

[15:23] <SteveS> Disney's Hercules... AKA Greek Superman

[15:23] <Nesssus> Well it was .... Disney

[15:23] <Redflame> Redd, as long as I can tell what you mean, I don't mind missspellings!

[15:24] <Nesssus> speaking of sanisation of movies, I went to see Resident Evil today. Not a bad movie, but it deserved a 18 certificate. It got away with a 15 - even the games are rated 18+

[15:24] <Redflame> I wish they would hire some new cartoonists, and let them draw with a different style. They are in a DEEP rut.

[15:24] <Treehugger> Saw MIB2. Very good.

[15:25] <Redflame> You have a much different rating system than we do.

[15:25] <Redflame> MIB2, I can't wait!

[15:25] <SteveS> I've heard good things about Lilo and Stitch

[15:25] <Nesssus> Hand drawn cartoons are going the way of the dinosaur though.

[15:25] <Treehugger> Gonna see Reign of Fire tomorrow, I hope.

[15:25] <Treehugger> Damn, wish I'd thought of that plot!

[15:25] <Redflame> Maybe, but my favorite animators are now at Pixar!

[15:25] <Nesssus> I always thought PG-13 = our 12, R = 15 and X = 18

[15:25] <Nesssus> Pixar are cool

[15:26] <Krenon> I haven't got a clue

[15:26] <Redflame> gotta be 18 to get into an R, unless you have a parent.

[15:26] <Krenon> We have, iirc, G, M, R and X

[15:26] <Treehugger> We always ignored ratings. If the kids wanted to see something, we went first, and made a decision based on our reaction.

[15:26] <SteveS> I think hand-drawn animation is only on the decline because Pixar and Shrek are so good, but the hand-drawn studios are running out ofideas.

[15:26] <Nesssus> I don't know if anyone here ever saw it, but there was a mpeg movie file doing the rounds a couple of years ago of a one-eyed alien miming "I will survive"

[15:27] <Krenon> No.

[15:27] <Treehugger> Nope.

[15:27] <SteveS> Victor Navone's Alien Song.

[15:27] <SteveS> He's working at Pixar now.

[15:27] <Corny> I personally prefer animes - they are quite fascinating

[15:27] <Nesssus> Well, I stumbled on the programmers website a month or so ago, and after seeing that, he was head hunted by Pixar and did some of the anim work on Monsters Inc.

[15:27] <Harry> Note that extreme violence PG-15 is acceptable and Nudity or showing a female breast r-18 is not?

[15:27] <SteveS> He used the same 3D software I use to make it, Hash Animation: Master.

[15:27] <Treehugger> Excellent point, Redd.

[15:28] <Redflame> Ted, we had G,M,R, X when I was growing up. I understand that the X differentiates a XX and a XXX based on how much male anatomy you see.

[15:28] <Treehugger> Still haven't seen Monsters Inc.

[15:28] *** flatlandr has joined #knownspace

[15:28] <Redflame> Hi flatlandr

[15:28] <Redflame> Monsters Inc was fun, but too fast paced for children.

[15:28] <Corny> hi flatlander

[15:29] <Redflame> Hi Larry!

[15:29] <Harry> In fact, by today's standards the original Fantasia would be unexceptable. nakkes cherib butts and toppless female Centars.

[15:29] <Krenon> Really? I've never seen a multiple X rating used here, not even on the doors of "adult" shops.

[15:29] <Treehugger> Greetings, Flatlander. To your planet, welcome!

[15:29] <Nesssus> Hello Larry

[15:29] <Harry> Hi Larry!

[15:29] <Corny> Larry?

[15:29] <Nesssus> if you want to change your nick type /nick yournewnick

[15:29] <Corny> :)

[15:29] *** Redflame is now known as Landlubber

[15:29] <flatlandr> Hi redflame! Hello, all.

[15:29] <SteveS> Hi, Larry!

[15:30] <Krenon> Hi Larry

[15:30] <Corny> Hi Larry ;)

[15:30] <Treehugger> red, hou gonna ask him about thaT

[15:30] <Treehugger> oops

[15:30] * Landlubber thinks we are all waiting for Larry to say something grand....

[15:30] <Treehugger> cat on the table

[15:30] <flatlandr> Redflame = Landlubber? or just kidding?

[15:31] *** Landlubber is now known as Redflame

[15:31] * Redflame making a joke.....

[15:31] <Krenon> She's demonstrating the name change

[15:31] <Redflame> flatlander.... landlubber....

[15:31] <flatlandr> Grand. Okay. Dinner with Tom Doherty the publisher had this result:

[15:31] <Treehugger> oooo!

[15:31] <Harry> How's Tom doing Larry?

[15:32] <flatlandr> We solve all problems in Iran by reversing an old legal decision: give North Iran to Turkey.

[15:32] *** Nesssus (Vash@knownspace.demon.co.uk) Quit (Ping timeout)

[15:32] <flatlandr> North Iran is where most of the oil is. The current lords of Turkey were its protectors from time immemorial.

[15:33] <Treehugger> Give North Iran some turkey...? Oh.

[15:33] <flatlandr> Also Turkey can defend their property, and they're our allies.

[15:33] *** Vash has joined #knownspace

[15:33] <Redflame> Hi Vash

[15:33] <Harry> Iran isn't NEAR the problem that IRAQ and SYRIA are Larry. They've been eliminating their Religious Government over the last several years... Mostly by free elections.

[15:33] <Corny> hi vash

[15:33] <flatlandr> Tom is fine, Harry.

[15:34] <Vash> Hello Vash

[15:34] <Harry> That's good about Tom Larry. He's one of the good ones.

[15:34] <Vash> Back again

[15:34] *** Vash is now known as Nesssus

[15:34] <flatlandr> Tom Doherty is a good man and a pleasure to work with.

[15:35] <Redflame> Wonder if Tom can come up with a good plan to solve the Israel/Palestinian problem. Maybe nobody is that smart.

[15:35] <Redflame> Treehugger, here it comes.

[15:35] <Treehugger> Speaking of work . . . how's Purgato...Purgatory....Purga...What's it called again?

[15:36] <Krenon> Purgatorio?

[15:36] <SteveS> If only we can convince the Palestinians that their real enemies are the leaders of the Arab world.

[15:36] <Treehugger> Yeah, him.

[15:36] <Redflame> Pergatorio.... You don't speak Italian?

[15:36] <flatlandr> Purgatorio still exists only in our heads.

[15:36] <Treehugger> There's a straight line for you!

[15:36] <Harry> I still think that my plan would work Red. The U.S. BUY the Falklins from G.B., and give them to the Palestinians for a new Homeland... With Political control given to Shinn Fain and the IRA.

[15:36] <Redflame> And out side in Texas.....

[15:37] <Krenon> Huh?

[15:37] <Treehugger> Gotta ask, Larry. What's the next book gonna be on the shelves?

[15:38] <Krenon> TBT, right?

[15:38] <Redflame> Pergatorio still exists only in our heads and outside in Texas.

[15:38] <SteveS> <g>

[15:38] <Krenon> Oh. What was that line: If I owned Texas and Hell I'd live in Hell and rent Texas.

[15:39] <flatlandr> Jerry and I are in the short strokes re BURNING TOWER. Also SCATTERBRAIN is ready to go.

[15:39] <Nesssus> lol

[15:39] <Treehugger> <huge grin>

[15:39] * Redflame wonders what "short strokes" means, and what is the origin of the phrase?

[15:39] <flatlandr> I don't know which will appear first. SCATTERBRAIN is short stories etc.

[15:39] <Corny> well what's about RINGWORLD'S CHILDREN?

[15:39] <Krenon> Coming up to the finish

[15:39] <Treehugger> Any word on a Draco Tavern collection?

[15:40] <flatlandr> "Short strokes" refers to either sex or golf: near the ending or climax.

[15:40] <Redflame> At one more Draco Tavern story a year, how many years before there are enough to fill one book?

[15:40] * Redflame laughs out loud!

[15:40] * Redflame LIKES short strokes!

[15:41] <flatlandr> Eleanor Wood wants to sell a Draco Tavern collection for me. She may be waiting for more stories.

[15:41] <SteveS> Everything you ever wanted to know about putting, but were afraid to ask...

[15:41] <Nesssus> What type of short stories are going to be in SCATTERBRAIN?

[15:41] <Treehugger> Guaranteed big seller, that.

[15:41] <Redflame> Hmm. Let's put some more!

[15:42] <Treehugger> <waiting for a hole-in-one joke>

[15:42] <Redflame> LOL. Or one in the hole?

[15:43] <flatlandr> I write Draco Tavern stories faster than that!

[15:43] <Harry> As in ; Standing in front of a disgruntled Female Postal worker with a shotgun is guaranteed to...Treehugger?

[15:43] <Krenon> Mae West said that sex is like bridge. If you don't have a good partner you'd better have a good hand.

[15:43] <Nesssus> So far I've totaled 19 Draco stories, is that right?

[15:43] <SteveS> LOL

[15:44] <flatlandr> I'd have to count, but check the latest Analogs. 19 at least.

[15:44] <Krenon> I guess the important thing is how many words total.

[15:45] <Redflame> How many still unpublished?

[15:45] <Krenon> Important for a single volume

[15:48] <Corny> by the way: Is there a story that describes what happened after the Pak invasion on Home?! I ever wondered that Beowulf sent his family to that planet a few hundred years later.........

[15:48] <Harry> Especially when payment is calculated by Word Count Krenon,

[15:48] <flatlandr> Maybe none unpublished. I just looked: "Chrysalis" and "Convergence of the Old Mind" are both in Analog.

[15:48] <Nesssus> Chrysalis is missing from my list, so make that 20

[15:49] <Krenon> I was thinking more of the thickness of the volume. To call it a book it had better look like a book.

[15:49] <flatlandr> There was mention of a sunflare caused by giant meteor impact, sterilizing Home.

[15:49] <Krenon> And not, as most modern fantasy books look like, a brick :-)

[15:49] <flatlandr> Draco Tavern stories vary around 3000words, I think. That's WORLD OF PTAVVS size.

[15:49] <Corny> oh that probably solves the problem ;)

[15:50] <Krenon> 60,000 words. 150 pages?

[15:50] <Krenon> Sounds good to me.

[15:51] <Redflame> That many? Still don't think just because there are enough to put in one book that you can quit writing them!

[15:52] <Redflame> Larry, I wonder when the colonists from "Smut Talk" are going to be brought up again?

[15:52] <Harry> One would expect Human Protectors to have colonized out in the Commetary Belt against just that sort of thing.

[15:53] <Corny> @Harry: They are probably responsible for the sunflare -maybe they wanted the humans to colonize the planet again

[15:54] <flatlandr> Yes, Corny, exactly.

[15:55] <Harry> Ok. Then That Pak Threat is Ended.

[15:55] <Redflame> Redd, regarding changing standards over time, I heard a story this morning about how someone wanted to remove "Little Black Sambo" from the realm of racist story, and so changed the race of the characters to East Indian, and the butter to ghee. One Indian man wonders how if it was racist then, how it is not racist now. I could never understand how a little boy out witting a tiger to help feed his family was racist....

[15:55] <Harry> THREAT!

[15:56] <Treehugger> "People is dumb".

[15:56] <Harry> Red? What animal chaseed Sambo up the tree? It wasn't a LION for sure.

[15:57] <Redflame> I thought it was a tiger.

[15:57] <Nesssus> Maybe it was a Kzin

[15:57] <Corny> :)

[15:57] * Redflame loves that ObNiven!

[15:57] <Nesssus> no more little boy, and no more racist slurs.... problem solved

[15:57] <Harry> Some people Would change the name of the insecticide BLACK FLAG because it's RACIST".

[15:57] <Treehugger> No more tree, if the Kzin was armed!

[15:57] <Nesssus> lol

[15:58] <SteveS> <g>

[15:58] <Krenon> Change it to WHITE FLAG and show the bug waving it.

[15:58] <Harry> Tigers are NOT African... The people who Classified SAMBO as RASIST were the NAACP... People who had never read the book!

[15:58] <Redflame> Then we need to stop using it at races. Or is that a checkered flag? Everything black is not a pejorative. People don't wear WHITE to be elegant, but black.

[15:59] <err> speaking of failed colonies, why is avalon doomed? Is it the overly competitive ecology? too few surviving colonists to ensure genetic diversity? the really tough creatures we haven't seen yet?

[15:59] <Redflame> Redd, I always liked the story, and thought it complimentary. But then, I know people who think that playing spoons or hambone is racist.

[16:00] <Krenon> Spoons??

[16:00] <Nesssus> Oh no - we are getting back to Button Moon - that had a character called Mr Spoon

[16:00] <flatlandr> I dropped off for a bit. I remember "Little Black Sambo" fondly, from childhood. I haven't asked Steve Barnes...

[16:01] <Nesssus> Larry, have you got any further with any of your collaborative works with Steve?

[16:01] <Redflame> Take two spoons, back to back, bounce them between your hand and various parts of your body in rhythmic fashion. Spoons is an instrument you can play even if your evil white master took away your drums.

[16:02] <Treehugger> Finally read "Streetlethal" a few months ago. Interesting.

[16:02] <flatlandr> Steve's here next week. We'll spend a day working. Currently he's got my notes for a story.

[16:02] <Nesssus> Is that the nanotechnology plot idea which has been on hold for ages?

[16:02] <Treehugger> Larry, I strongly suspect you have one of the world's great jobs!

[16:03] <flatlandr> Yes, Nessus.

[16:03] <flatlandr> Yes, Treehugger, it's a great job. The hours can't be beat.

[16:03] <Nesssus> Good. It will be nice to see some more info about that one.

[16:03] <Redflame> IN my hometown, there was a restaurant named "Sambo's" It was closed down from racist protests, and the building is gone now. And Bartlesville has a very small black population.

[16:03] <Nesssus> Was the restaurant any good?

[16:03] <Redflame> Like Denny's.

[16:03] <Corny> :)

[16:04] <Nesssus> What is Denny's?

[16:04] <Treehugger> Was it owned by a guy named Sambo?

[16:04] <err> we had a few sambos here in Washington, they went under and were bought out by denny's back in the 70's

[16:04] <Krenon> In Australia, "sambo" is often used to mean sandwich

[16:04] <Redflame> What does a 5 year old know of gourmet food? I don't know who owned it. I never was good with names.

[16:04] <Treehugger> Heehee....that explains a lot!

[16:04] <err> denny's 24hour american cuisine franchised all over the place

[16:04] <Redflame> Maybe that is where it comes from then.

[16:04] <Nesssus> I thought that was Sanga, Ted

[16:04] <Krenon> That too

[16:05] <Krenon> sanger

[16:05] <Nesssus> Is that burgers, and fries or more too?

[16:05] <Redflame> sanger, sanga, sambo all the same?

[16:05] <Nesssus> and "snag" is a sausage, right?

[16:05] <Krenon> The g is not hard

[16:05] <Treehugger> Dennys' = good breakfast stuff, average otherwise.

[16:05] <Redflame> pancakes, burgers, hash, steak and eggs, clubs, shakes....

[16:06] <Krenon> sanger rhymes with clanger

[16:06] <Krenon> Yes. Usually.

[16:06] <Nesssus> up market MacDonalds then.

[16:06] <Redflame> I like their "skillet" menu. Kinda like casseroles.

[16:06] <Krenon> clubs?

[16:06] <Nesssus> Club sandwiches, I think

[16:06] <Redflame> club sandwich.

[16:06] <Corny> well I have to go now - bye everyone

[16:07] <Redflame> reubens, pizza even.

[16:07] <SteveS> Bye, Corny!

[16:07] <Krenon> Bye corny

[16:07] <Nesssus> bye Corney

[16:07] <Treehugger> Bye Corny

[16:07] <Redflame> By corny. Thanks for joining us.

[16:07] *** Corny Quit (Quit: Leaving)

[16:07] <flatlandr> bye Corny

[16:08] <Nesssus> oh well, who's now hungry?

[16:08] <Nesssus> ;-)

[16:08] <Redflame>

[15:52] <Redflame> Larry, I wonder when the colonists from "Smut Talk" are going to be brought up again?

[16:08] <SteveS> I just ate. :-)

[16:08] <Nesssus> all that talk of food and everything.....

[16:08] <flatlandr> I'll reread :"Smut Talk" and see if my muse speaks.

[16:09] * Redflame going late to a pot luck to be here; Peter is taking the kids and her southern potato salad.

[16:09] <Krenon> You have a pet muse? ;-)

[16:09] <Redflame> Pet moose?

[16:09] <Nesssus> What is your muse saying about Teela's children?

[16:09] <Krenon> chocolate moose

[16:10] <flatlandr> You'll have to wait re Teela's progeny.

[16:10] <Redflame> "Smut Talk" = marital aide!

[16:10] <Nesssus> ow.... spoilsport

[16:10] <flatlandr> My muse is not a pet. More like a master.

[16:10] * Nesssus sulks!

[16:10] <err> you've got to train those muses right, or they go all alpha and try to run the show

[16:11] <Krenon> Aw get out of that catatonic position, Nesssus

[16:11] * Redflame laughs at flatlandr!

[16:11] <Treehugger> Larry, Stephen King has written that he doesn't plot out stories. He doesn't know how they'll end until they end. Me, I like to have the whole thing worked out before I sit down to write. Granted, this is a very individual thing, but how do you prefer to work it? Just curious.

[16:11] * Nesssus realizes she has a smelly navel anyway.......

[16:11] <SteveS> <g>

[16:12] <Krenon> Hrm ... where is a puppeteer's navel?

[16:12] <Treehugger> I just can't imagine writing that . . . chaotically?

[16:12] <flatlandr> When I know the ending, I'm ready to write the story.

[16:12] <Redflame> Do they have one? If so, they are placental mammals.....

[16:12] <Treehugger> Indeed. I'm relieved! Thanks.

[16:12] <flatlandr> Puppeteer's navel: don't know.

[16:13] <Krenon> I have heard writers' panels where all the members say that they start stories and don't know the endings

[16:13] <SteveS> How does that third sex feed puppeteer infants before birth?

[16:13] <Redflame> Wonder if Puppeteer's navels are mentioned in ADG? I don't even remember about MKOL!

[16:13] <flatlandr> "Don't even go there", SteveS.

[16:13] <Krenon> I don't think so

[16:13] * Redflame bet he doesn't know that either!!

[16:14] <Krenon> No. We didn't mention the navel

[16:14] <Nesssus> Well, you mentioned just about *everything* else in MKOL.

[16:15] <Redflame> As often as we could!

[16:15] <Krenon> Yes, including Robert Hine Lines which seems to annoy some people

[16:15] <SteveS> <groan>

[16:15] <Harry> I would assume that a navel would be private Business... Like it was amongst the Old Norse.

[16:15] <Treehugger> Puppeteers may not HAVE a navel.

[16:15] <Krenon> Exactly

[16:15] <flatlandr> MKOL? ADG?

[16:16] <Redflame> If they are from some sort of egg, they don't need one...

[16:16] <Treehugger> And the Paramount execs in the 60's!

[16:16] <Krenon> No umbilical cord, no navel. No placentas ...

[16:16] <Krenon> placenta

[16:16] <Redflame> ADG, A Darker Geometry

[16:16] <err> many kinds of loving, a darker geometry

[16:16] <Nesssus> Many Kinds of Loving (story written by Ted/Carol)

[16:16] <Treehugger> If the egg grows inside the host....

[16:16] <Krenon> Carol/Ted

[16:16] <Treehugger> then when it hatches...ewwww.

[16:17] <flatlandr> Told ya.

[16:17] <Redflame> Larry, we get tired of writing all these things out and just use abbreviations for all your stories, and the titles of any story remotely related to anything you wrote....

[16:17] <SteveS> Space elevator story on CNN now.

[16:17] <Redflame> We don't REALLY know that the host doesn't then LAY an egg after the male and female deposit genetic material.

[16:17] <flatlandr> thanks for help with acronyms.

[16:17] <Krenon> Yes. We've even been known to write "LN" or to be formal "LvCN"

[16:18] <Treehugger> LvCN?

[16:18] <Redflame> I've never seen anyone use "LvCN" but only LVCN.

[16:18] <Nesssus> Larry Van Cott Niven - full name

[16:18] <Harry> Red, we don't even know that Nessus was telling the truth in the first place!

[16:18] <Krenon> Oh

[16:18] <Redflame> That is right.

[16:18] <Krenon> Is it van or Van

[16:18] <Redflame> LAURENCE, if we are going to get pedantic.

[16:19] <Nesssus> If I had a van, I'd want a big one.

[16:19] <Treehugger> Too formal, too formal!

[16:19] <Harry> It I WAS a van I'd BE a Big one!

[16:19] <Harry> BIG ONE!

[16:19] <Redflame> LOL. Any van is better than no van. Start small and work up!

[16:19] <Treehugger> Yet another straight line...!

[16:19] <Treehugger> minivan?

[16:20] <Harry> Or maybe just medium sized but one that just kept running.

[16:20] * Nesssus pictures Redflame on a Sinclair C5....

[16:20] <Redflame> LOL! and going and going and going!!!!!

[16:20] <Harry> Truly!

[16:20] <Nesssus> like the energizer bunny?

[16:20] <Krenon> A certain American woman gave me one of those buttons that they live to wear at cons, which says "stop me before I pun again".

[16:20] <Redflame> C5, that is the really big colony size ship?

[16:21] <Nesssus> you need to wear it more often, Ted!

[16:21] <Redflame> Ted, are you into that kind of punishment?

[16:21] <Treehugger> Yeah, built into a GP hull.

[16:21] <Krenon> Yes. I know.

[16:21] <Nesssus> no - it was a battery powered pedal car from the early 80s

[16:21] <Krenon> She knew a thing or 2 about me

[16:21] <SteveS> Sinclair makes everything!

[16:21] <err> biblically?

[16:22] <Redflame> I used to ride a moped. Was my only transportation for years.

[16:22] <Treehugger> Like Acme!

[16:22] <Krenon> Actually, on the subject of making things, what besides ships' hulls did General Products sell?

[16:22] <Treehugger> me too, Red, 'til it was stolen.

[16:22] <Redflame> I think Mrs. Scribner is the only woman who knows Ted biblically.

[16:22] <Treehugger> Good question, Krenon.

[16:22] <Redflame> Yes, good question.

[16:22] <flatlandr> I never found out what GP sells besides hulls.

[16:23] <Nesssus> what about flashlight lasers and variable swords?

[16:23] <Nesssus> who made them?

[16:23] <Krenon> She's right.

[16:23] <SteveS> They could make tough suitcases that put Samsonite to shame.

[16:23] <Treehugger> Somebody check their website and order a catalog!

[16:23] <Redflame> Dish washers, washing machines, automatic cars?

[16:23] <SteveS> Advertised in commercials where an angry Kzin jumps on them, and throws them around.

[16:23] <Krenon> In "Neutron Star" there is mention of the fact that GP sold a lot of different stuff, but nothing besides the hulls has ever been mentioned afaik

[16:24] <Redflame> I want a machine that will make my clothing designs for me. Put in a drawing, measurements, get my finished costumes!

[16:24] <Redflame> But the suitcases, they only come in clear!

[16:25] <Treehugger> Ah, a replicator!

[16:25] <SteveS> Called an autotailer, obviously.

[16:25] <Krenon> Flashlight lasers were made on earth.

[16:25] <Nesssus> Steve: why would a Kzin be abusing luggage?

[16:25] <Treehugger> By Craftsman?

[16:25] <flatlandr> Redflame, do you really? Half your hobby would vanish.

[16:25] <Redflame> TY for that, Steve.

[16:25] <Krenon> Variable swords involved stasis fields. Don't know who made them

[16:25] <Treehugger> It insulted his sense of fashion?

[16:25] <Redflame> No, I'd have more and more costumes!

[16:25] <SteveS> I figured it made more sense than the gorilla in the Samsonite suitcase commercials.

[16:25] <Nesssus> Originally the Slavers, but they were duplicated, copied and then mass produced

[16:26] <Nesssus> Haven't seen those gorilla ads.

[16:26] <Treehugger> They're old, those ads.

[16:26] <SteveS> They were on in the US decades ago.

[16:26] <Krenon> But, I think, only by Puppeteers.

[16:26] <Nesssus> and ergo, by GP

[16:26] <Redflame> I'd still get to do all the designing. Then, I could also design the fabric designs. I have a hard time finding fabric I want. I've been looking for golden and indigo blue half inch striped fabric, medium to light weight for years.

[16:27] <Krenon> Maybe but I don't recall GP mentioned in connection with them.

[16:27] <Harry> I think the Gorillas do LESS damage to luggage than the Human Baggage handlers.

[16:27] <Redflame> I even have costume shops who want to carry it if I find a manufacturer!

[16:28] <Nesssus> You're probably right, Frank

[16:28] <err> GP sold all kinds of stuff, but they really weren't into marketing and retail, they sold direct to other manufacturers, who would then slap their name on it, and sell it

[16:28] <Krenon> All except the hulls.

[16:28] <Treehugger> GP bought stuff, too, like influence.

[16:28] <Redflame> Influence can be expensive!

[16:28] <err> those were big enough ticket items, and the number of hull

buyers small enough, that they dealt directly with that

[16:29] <Treehugger> Hey, SOMEBODY was buying those Sinclair yachts!

[16:29] <Krenon> Dudes.

[16:29] <Redflame> Makes more sense to sell high market items. How rich can you get selling suitcases when you could be selling space ships!

[16:29] <Treehugger> dudes?

[16:29] <Treehugger> oh, DUDES!

[16:29] <Treehugger> Thought it was comment.

[16:30] <Krenon> Mentioned in the "Neutron Star" story "Grendel"

[16:30] <err> gp didn't sell space ships, they sold the hulls to the space ship manufacturers, who then sold the ship

[16:30] <Redflame> Maybe the hulls are insanely easy to make, so the formula is a really big secret.

[16:30] <Treehugger> Didn't GP also outfit ships for buyers?

[16:31] <Redflame> They did Beowulf's ship, yes?

[16:31] <Nesssus> like KFC

[16:31] <Krenon> Btw, Larry, "Elephant" of the story "Flatlander" etc was Bruce Pelz I presume.

[16:31] <Harry> the people who bought Sinclair Yachts couldn't afford a GP Hull or maybe wanted something smaller than a GP #1.

[16:31] <Treehugger> yeah, and they cost about a tenner to make! Nice profit.

[16:31] <Redflame> Good secrets make for nice profits!

[16:32] <flatlandr> Yes, Bruce Pelz was "Elephant".

[16:32] <Krenon> His death made headlines in fandom here.

[16:33] <Nesssus> I've heard that Doc Smith is very ill at the moment too.

[16:33] <flatlandr> Here, his death made phone calls, then announcements.

[16:33] <Krenon> Which Doc Smith? E. E. Smith died in the 60's

[16:33] <Nesssus> oh, that's the one I thought it was, must be another one that the LTUE list is discussing then.

[16:34] <Redflame> LTUE?

[16:34] <Treehugger> How close was Bruce to Elephant? I like the way you put real people in your work, Larry.

[16:35] <flatlandr> I made him rich, for plot purposes. But Bruce was a great traveler.

[16:35] <Nesssus> Life The Universe and Everything. The organizers of a con which Larry attended earlier this year

[16:35] <Redflame> Ah.

[16:36] <flatlandr> Yeah, LTUE was held near Salt Lake City. Very nice people.

[16:36] <Krenon> So how many other Doc Smiths have there been in sf?

[16:37] <Redflame> Is Doc Smith the same as E.E. Smith?

[16:37] <Nesssus> apparently not

[16:37] <Krenon> Edward E. Smith PhD was always known as Doc

[16:37] <flatlandr> There's been a plague of Smiths, many of whom have doctorates.

[16:38] <Treehugger> None, I think. Did you mean Forrest Ackerman?

[16:38] <Krenon> Ah. Yes.

[16:38] <Krenon> He had a stroke as I've heard.

[16:39] <Treehugger> Some of what I've heard made it seem he wasn't long for this world. Is he doing better?

[16:39] <Krenon> He was last seen in a hospital, with few visitors.

[16:40] <Krenon> In June Locus Online first reported him to be dying, then that he wasn't so bad.

[16:40] <Redflame> Larry, you very good friends with Forry?

[16:40] <Krenon> I haven't heard anything for over a month.

[16:41] <flatlandr> 4ej and I are moderately good friends. I'm told he's at home now, and he's improving.

[16:41] <Treehugger> Excellent!

[16:41] <Krenon> That's good.

[16:41] <Redflame> No more eulogies for a while? Good.

[16:41] <Treehugger> Isn't he part of the LASFS with you?

[16:41] <Krenon> I'll report that locally

[16:42] <flatlandr> 4ej was central to the LASFS. Not so much these days.

[16:42] <flatlandr> I don't do eulogies well.

[16:42] <Treehugger> <sigh> I live on the wrong coast. All the interesting fans seem to be out there!

[16:42] <flatlandr> So stop dying.

[16:42] <Redflame> Ted, tell them to look up the more recent chat on Known Space for the most recent news!

[16:43] <Treehugger> i promise to try, Larry!

[16:43] <Redflame> I'll do my best to mind you, Larry! You mind your own advice, hear?

[16:43] <Treehugger> I'll stop aging, for starters. Now, where's that pill...?

[16:43] <Nesssus> Hear, Hear!

[16:43] <Krenon> I can only drop the name of Larry Niven so often into my news :-)

[16:43] <Krenon> You know there is a bookshop in Adelaide called Known Space Books?

[16:44] <flatlandr> I didn't know that, Krenon.

[16:44] <Nesssus> Do they specialize in Sci Fi?

[16:44] <Krenon> Yes

[16:44] <Redflame> Larry, I'm sure that Ted will be happy to take you by there the next time you are in Sydney!

[16:44] <Krenon> They are probably the biggest sf booksellers in Adelaide.

[16:44] <Nesssus> Well, that's something, at least

[16:45] <Krenon> To Adelaide? A bit far.

[16:45] <Krenon> But it can be organized

[16:45] <Nesssus> But it would be worth it to see the proprietor's faces <g>

[16:45] <Treehugger> Nonsense. You step in and dial...!

[16:45] <Treehugger> Yeah!

[16:45] * Redflame bad enough in geography without having to recall all of Australia and Known Space too!

[16:45] <Nesssus> and order a pizza....

[16:45] <SteveS> LOL

[16:45] <flatlandr> I visited Adelaide when I was GOH in Sydney, in 1981. Marilyn and I had a ball throughout that visit.

[16:46] <Krenon> Nice city, Adelaide. Founded by free settlers, no convicts.

[16:46] <Redflame> Hmm. Maybe the proprietors got their inspiration from that con!

[16:47] <Nesssus> Larry, is there anywhere left in this world which you would really like to visit?

[16:47] <Treehugger> Don't be discriminatory, Krenon!

[16:47] <Nesssus> You seem to have been everywhere as a GOH.

[16:47] <Krenon> If you look at my mention of Known Space Books on

[link dead] you'll see that I managed to squeeze in a reference to www.larryniven.org.

[16:48] <Krenon> It makes a difference, Treehugger.

[16:48] <Krenon> I am descended from a convict.

[16:49] <Redflame> Well, I don't make a distinction between US cities founded by religious radicals and ones founded by.... what else is there here?

[16:49] <Treehugger> Okay, I'll ask. What difference, after all this time?

[16:49] <Krenon> Only the layout of the city, which has influenced its subsequent development.

[16:49] <Harry> Secular Radicals Red.

[16:49] <flatlandr> I'd like to see Antarctica. Hey, I'd like to see Alaska! And Hong Kong.

[16:49] <Krenon> Adelaide's CBD is entirely surrounded by parkland

[16:50] <Redflame> Snow and crowds....

[16:50] <SteveS> Antarcticon!

[16:50] <Krenon> Yeah.

[16:50] <Nesssus> And Krenon was cold when he got up today!

[16:50] <Treehugger> Antarctica's white. There, saved you a trip!

[16:50] <Krenon> Fans would feed the penguins - with the wrong stuff.

[16:50] * Redflame laughs at the hugger!

[16:50] <Harry> From all reports Hong Kong is changing into what most "Socialist" cities end up as. Mostly colorless and somewhat drab

[16:51] <flatlandr> Antarcticon might be a smallish convention.

[16:51] <Treehugger> The world is becoming homogenized, as Louis discovered.

[16:51] <Krenon> It would have to be. Accommodation is pricey

[16:51] <Treehugger> Hong Con? Might be interesting!

[16:52] <SteveS> The penguins and orcas might like it...

[16:52] <Redflame> Antaricon, maybe even smaller than the Australian cons!

[16:52] <Treehugger> Um, not to be naive, but . . . you have the dough and you set your own schedule, Larry. What are you waiting for? Go see Alaska!

[16:52] * Redflame laughs at the hugger again!

[16:52] <Krenon> Nothing could be smaller than them :-(

[16:53] <Krenon> But Antarctica is not Alaska

[16:53] <Krenon> and as far as I'm aware there is still no provision for paying tourists to go to Antarctica

[16:54] <Nesssus> But Alaska is easier to get to as a tourist. I know someone personally who went on an Alaskan cruise ship a year or so ago.

[16:54] <Treehugger> Antarctica can be done, I'll bet. maybe not the South Pole itself, but the continent.

[16:55] <Krenon> Only fly-overs.

[16:55] <Krenon> As far as I know.

[16:55] <Redflame> Flatlander, Go to AlasKon, drive out of town a few miles to a hunting shack, pretend you are at AntarctiCon with the few people who drive, which is about all who would have showed up. Two penguins, one stone.

[16:56] <Krenon> Even just the scientific expeditions have messed it a bit

[16:56] <Krenon> And take a CD of Vaughan Williams's "Synfonia Antarctica" to play while you're there.

[16:57] <Nesssus> Apparently Antarctica is a really good site for finding meteorites.

[16:57] <Krenon> No penguins in Alaska are there?

[16:57] <Nesssus> No only polar bears

[16:57] <Redflame> Maybe AntartiCon has some really good light shows?

[16:57] <Krenon> You'd think that they'd get buried deep in the ice cap

[16:57] <Redflame> Certainly there are in the zoos....

[16:58] <Nesssus> I guess they do eventually, but they sit on the surface undisturbed for centuries.

[16:58] <Nesssus> covered in the winter, but uncovered in the summer thaw

[16:59] <Harry> There was a proposition to put A Ski Lodge up in Antarctica but the U.N. Rulings on Antarctic uses quashed that... No commercial usage, remember?

[16:59] <Krenon> The penguins certainly wouldn't touch them

[16:59] <Treehugger> No hills!

[16:59] <SteveS> I've read that it rarely snows in Antarctica -- but

whatever snow gets there stays.

[16:59] <Redflame> That would mean no convention, right? even if it is a charity con?

[17:00] <Harry> Krenon, Penguins are strictly a coastal population, and they hunt rocks to make nests of.

[17:00] <Redflame> The Antarctic must be a desert, then.

[17:00] <Treehugger> What if the con was on a ship/

[17:00] <Krenon> There are mountains there

[17:00] <Nesssus> There's a whole continent there

[17:00] <Treehugger> Penguins make nests out of meteorites? Penguins are manna-rich!

[17:00] <SteveS> Yup, it's a desert, which is another reason why it's a good place to practice for Mars activities.

[17:01] <Nesssus> good OB-Niven!

[17:01] <Harry> And mana mutated birds that can only fly UNDER WATER!

[17:01] <Redflame> LOL!

[17:01] <Treehugger> Every time I see something on the Antarctic. it'

[17:01] <Treehugger> s flat right to the horizon.

[17:01] <SteveS> What about were-penguins?

[17:01] <Harry> That's the Ross Ice Shelf Tree.

[17:02] <Redflame> What a great idea, George!

[17:02] <Nesssus> Isn't that supposed to break off at some point?

[17:02] <Harry> Were? Penguins to what?

[17:02] <flatlandr> Penguins get the stones, but who speaks the spells? Picture an unholy alliance between a penguin and a parrot...

[17:02] <Krenon> No wolves. Only penguins

[17:02] <Redflame> a human who turns into a penguin.

[17:02] <Treehugger> Penguins could lead a magician to manna. First he'd have to get to them.....

[17:03] <Krenon> Parrots would never survive there.

[17:03] <SteveS> Parrots in parkas?

[17:03] <Harry> The Human form would soon freeze to death.

[17:03] <Nesssus> lol

[17:03] <Treehugger> parrots have magic heat-manna in their colors.

[17:03] <Redflame> dig down deep like an igloo, the human form could survive on a magic fire

[17:03] <Nesssus> How about werewolf magicians?

[17:03] <Treehugger> penguins are were-whales. They change underwater.

[17:04] <Harry> Re Ross... Only the outer edges nessus.

[17:04] <Krenon> I do not like parrots at present. A couple of large white

cockatoos ruined our lemon crop.

[17:04] <Redflame> Good one, George. No reason why were-creatures have to be only human and something else.

[17:05] <Harry> Wrong transformation. MAMMAL to MAMMAL Not Bird to mammal.

[17:05] <SteveS> Were-cars change into robots. :-)

[17:05] <Harry> And were bicycles to Coat Hangers.

[17:05] <Treehugger> Good point, Harry.

[17:05] <Nesssus> That makes them Transformers, Steve

[17:06] <Treehugger> Coat hangers to paper clips!

[17:06] <Redflame> But, Redd, a were-wolf isn't REALLY a wolf. It may just LOOK like a penguin to be able to get into the Penguin flock....

[17:06] <SteveS> Not according to Futurama -- a were-car isn't born... uh... manufactured that way.

[17:06] <Krenon> I've heard that the juvenile form of coathangers is a paper clip

[17:06] <Treehugger> Just read that last week, harry!

[17:06] <Krenon> paper clips reproduce in desk drawers, coathangers in wardrobes

[17:06] <SteveS> There was a 3D animation contest entry based on that story a few months ago.

[17:06] <Redflame> Will have to remember that when Clara gets more into Barbie dolls. Hangers, paperclips.....

[17:07] <Krenon> Are you letting Clara get into Barbie dolls? That's dangerous.

[17:07] <Nesssus> but inevitable

[17:07] <Redflame> Ted, regarding Capt Kirk's original chair, Will Wheaton reported on his web site that they were auctioning off a bunch of ST ephemera.

[17:08] <Nesssus> That chair sold on Ebay recently. Started at 80K, finished at 265K

[17:08] <Nesssus> I paid attention.

[17:08] <Krenon> Wow!

[17:08] <Redflame> Regarding Clara and Barbie's: actually, I plead guilty to starting a collection for her. I already have a collector edition waiting for her in my closet. She must be a little older.

[17:08] <Treehugger> A magician, a penguin, and a parrot walk into a bar......

[17:09] <Krenon> Having insufficient money, that is, I presume, all you paid.

[17:09] <SteveS> It attracts women in short red dresses carrying electronic clip-pads.

[17:09] <Nesssus> would the bar be the Draco Tavern.....?

[17:09] <Treehugger> Why, yes.

[17:09] <Redflame> Some people have too much money. eBay is the way to correct that problem.

[17:10] <SteveS> I bought some were-cars on eBay myself. :-)

[17:10] <Nesssus> Prices do tend to be higher on the US Ebay. The UK version seems a little more restrained.

[17:10] <Redflame> Were-cars that turn into robots: reminds me of the pic of Larry's "door man" Jerry posted.

[17:11] <Redflame> Nesssus, fewer people.

[17:11] <Nesssus> Fewer obsessed fans, more like.

[17:11] <Harry> I should get into my Storage bin and separate out my collection of duplicates... Some might be worth money. Especially the Beam Piper ones.

[17:12] <Redflame> Hey, the Draco tavern is in an icey environment. The Parrot must be an alien. The penguin is a familiar of the magician, which of course, has to be Warlock in a crossover story!

[17:12] <Krenon> I'm still waiting for the punch line

[17:12] <Redflame> I let a book go today that hit over 27 pounds!

[17:12] <Krenon> Curses! I just heard the unmistakable call of the white cockatoo outside.

[17:13] * Redflame and Treehugger think slowly.

[17:13] <Treehugger> Warlock's dead, isn't he? "Course, that might not stop him from walking into a bar!

[17:13] <Redflame> Hey, Wavyhill is still managing to get around!

[17:13] <Treehugger> True, true!

[17:13] <Krenon> How? I thought he was finished at the end of TMGA

[17:13] <Redflame> "Cockatoo sits in the lemon tree, eating all the lemons he can see...."

[17:14] <Krenon> They don't even eat them! Just trash them

[17:14] <Redflame> Isn't he just a skull now, getting carried around?

[17:14] <Krenon> Tear them to bits

[17:14] <Nesssus> Well if they did eat them, think of the faces that they would pull

[17:14] <SteveS> LOL

[17:14] <Krenon> I thought that the end of TMGA had that skull disintegrating

[17:14] <Redflame> Tart lemons, makes you pucker to kiss. Maybe it is an aphrodisiac for them!

[17:15] <Krenon> They are beautiful looking birds but they are real mean.

[17:15] <Treehugger> Can birds pucker?

[17:15] <Redflame> Ah. Well, if I was writing a review, I'd have to re-read them!

[17:15] <Redflame> Lemme see.....

[17:15] <flatlandr> They've got beaks! Beaks don't pucker!

[17:15] <Krenon> Cockatoos' beaks are in a constant pucker.

[17:15] <Treehugger> they could try to pucker....ouch!

[17:15] <Harry> Lemons have more sugar content that Oranges...

[17:15] <Redflame> Still, even if they don't actually pucker, it might make them want to.... do something else!

[17:16] <Harry> And Onions more than apples.

[17:16] <Nesssus> like go play golf....?

[17:16] <Redflame> Didn't know that, about onions.

[17:16] <Redflame> one might presume that there is a lack of cockatoos on the golf course!

[17:17] <Harry> Fact Red. Bermuda (RED ONIONS) have the highest sugar content of the whole family.

[17:17] <Redflame> Reds, yes, very sweet.

[17:17] <Redflame> Used one today in my potato salad. My family would HATE it.

[17:17] <Harry> That's why they caramelize when you cook them.

[17:18] <Krenon> You talking onions?

[17:18] <Redflame> Yes. Red onions, sweet.

[17:18] <Harry> Yupper.

[17:18] <Krenon> I've never known an onion to taste sweet.

[17:18] <Redflame> My family hates it is I change ANYTHING. Ted, you have never had a Texas 1015!

[17:18] <Harry> Sauté one sometime krenon.

[17:19] <Krenon> Texas 1015?

[17:19] <Redflame> Sweet onion, Texas 1015.

[17:19] *** Nesssus Quit (Quebec.QC.CA.ChatNet.Org Augusta.GA.US.ChatNet.Org)

[17:19] *** Treehugger Quit (Quebec.QC.CA.ChatNet.Org Augusta.GA.US.ChatNet.Org)

[17:19] *** CrazyEddy Quit (Quebec.QC.CA.ChatNet.Org Augusta.GA.US.ChatNet.Org)

[17:20] <Krenon> Hello! Something threw them off.

[17:20] <Redflame> Don't know where the name comes from. However, I do know that store LIE and say that an onion is a 1015 when it isn't, in fact a 10 15.

[17:20] <SteveS> Ouch!

[17:20] <Redflame> Quebec is having a problem.

[17:20] <Krenon> No doubt a warp in the fabric of space-time

[17:20] <Harry> I just heard some thunder. if I drop, you'll know why.

[17:20] <Redflame> I have thunder too. Larry what is the day like in CA?

[17:21] *** CrazyEddy has joined #knownspace

[17:21] <Redflame> Hi CrazyEddy

[17:21] *** Treehugger has joined #knownspace

[17:21] <Redflame> Hi Treehugger

[17:21] *** Augusta.GA.US.ChatNet.Org sets mode: +o CrazyEddy

[17:21] <Harry> Strangely enough, I log in on an random AU Chatnet server... Much easier than any US Server.

[17:21] <Harry> Hi Eddy, Tree.

[17:21] <Krenon> Is it? I noticed Larry is connected to Sydney

[17:21] <Treehugger> Hi, Red.

[17:22] <Redflame> Couldn't get though on Pensicola, used Medford, Oregon

[17:22] <Krenon> Nesssus didn't get back.

[17:22] <Harry> Lightening flash through the window. Time to go.

[17:22] <Redflame> See ya Redd.

[17:22] <Krenon> OK. Catch you later.

[17:22] <SteveS> Bye, Frank!

[17:23] <Harry> Adios all.

[17:23] <Harry> -GONE=+++

[17:23] *** Harry has left #knownspace

[17:25] <flatlandr> I will depart too. Stay well.

[17:25] <Redflame> Nice seeing you Larry.

[17:25] <Krenon> Bye Larry

[17:25] <SteveS> Bye, Larry!

[17:25] *** flatlandr Quit (Quit: Leaving)

[17:25] <Redflame> Thanks for coming.

[17:26] <Krenon> Nice of him to drop by

[17:26] <Treehugger> yep

[17:26] <Redflame> Okay, now that Larry is gone, I guess I'll go to my party I am late for.

[17:26] <Redflame> Yes, it was fun having Larry.

[17:26] <SteveS> Definitely

[17:26] <Krenon> OK. Have fun.

[17:26] <SteveS> OK, bye Carol!

[17:26] <Krenon> And tell Peter I'll email him soon about his essay

[17:26] <Redflame> I noticed that we didn't do a lot of talking to each other when Larry first came, we all just wanted to talk to HIM!

[17:26] <Redflame> Okay, I will.

[17:27] <Krenon> Well what do you expect?

[17:27] *** Redflame is now known as Red_logging

[17:27] <Treehugger> I'm off too. Dinner's waiting. See you all on the list!

[17:28] <Red_logging> I guess I expect exactly what happened!

[17:28] <Treehugger> bye

[17:28] <Krenon> OK. Bye

[17:28] <Red_logging> Bye, guys!

[17:28] <SteveS> Bye, TH!

[17:28] *** Treehugger Quit (Read/Dead Error: Connection reset by peer)

[17:28] <Krenon> I'll be logged in for a while but I may not be at my computer.

[17:29] <err> someday i will have a free weekend to actually participate, or at least i tell myself that

[17:29] *** Krenon is now known as Krenon_logging_too

[18:47] <SteveS> I'm officially outta here.

[18:47] <SteveS> bye!

[18:47] *** SteveS Quit (Quit: )

[18:50] *** err has left #knownspace

[18:54] *** Krenon_logging_too is now known as Krenon

[18:54] *** Krenon Quit (Quit: )

[20:13] *** Disconnected

Session Close: Sat Jul 13 20:13:16 2002