Chat Log: September 6th 2003

Larry Niven was present for this month's chat.

To jump down to Larry's entrance click here.

Session Start: Sunday September 07 04:52:15 2003

[04:54] <Harry_Red> Hi Ted

[04:54] <Krenon> Hi

[04:54] <Krenon> Frank

[04:54] <Harry_Red> A bit early, but that's good.

[04:54] <Krenon> I'll be away for a while shortly

[04:55] <Krenon> I should be back soon after the appointed starting time

[04:55] <Harry_Red> I've got to take a tutorial oone of these days and learn the commands for IRC.

[04:55] <Harry_Red> -k-

[05:00] *** Krenon is now known as Kren_away

[05:00] <errhead> the good thing about reading the list months later is it keeps me from jumping in with flames, but the bad thing is that i lose the chance for ontopic comments

[05:01] <Kren_away> Why do you read them months later?

[05:01] *** SteveS_af has joined #knownspace

[05:01] <SteveS_af> Hi, all!

[05:01] <Kren_away> Hi

[05:01] *** SteveS_af is now known as SteveS

[05:01] <errhead> like where frank claims that a slaver disintegrator isn't a WMD, where canyon seems to imply different

[05:01] <Kren_away> Back in about an hour...

[05:01] <errhead> cuz i stopped reading to avoid getting into a pointless flamefest with peter

[05:02] <Harry_Red> That's when it's upscaled.

[05:02] <errhead> well yeah, ya gotta go for the deluxe model

[05:02] <SteveS> :-)

[05:03] <Harry_Red> Hi Steve. Actually, you don't, but it did do it's job... It stopped ther war.

[05:05] <SteveS> Aren't some things, like chemical weapons, considered WMDs even in small amounts?

[05:05] <Harry_Red> Shades of BURNING CITY! http://www.sciencenews.org/20030906/fob8.asp

[05:05] <Harry_Red> Kinda. Usually, when chemical weapons are used, they are used enmass. Like during WW I

[05:09] <errhead> hmmm, i wonder if throwing rocks from the moon with a mass driver would technically count as a WMD currently

[05:09] <SteveS> Small amounts aren't really *mass* destruction, but society considers them too terrible to use even in small amounts.

[05:10] <SteveS> It would certainly cause the same sort of destruction.

[05:10] <Harry_Red> It would. When you consider that unless you have a Large Payload, it's not worth doing. Smart crowbars should not qualify though.

[05:11] <errhead> crowbars are covered by that un ban on militarizing space

[05:12] <Harry_Red> Uh Yeah. Let's watch the UN stop the Chinese from militarizing space when they get there.

[05:12] <SteveS> <g>

[05:12] *** Larry has joined #knownspace

[05:13] <Harry_Red> Larry!

[05:13] <SteveS> Hi, Larry!

[05:13] <Harry_Red> How's it going?

[05:13] <Larry> Hi. Life is good.

[05:14] <Harry_Red> S9ometimes I wonder.

[05:14] <Larry> Today's our anniversary. I made breakfast for us.

[05:14] <errhead> in bed?

[05:14] <Harry_Red> Congratulations/ And Hi to fuzzy too!

[05:14] <SteveS> Congrats!

[05:14] <Larry> Sorry you're in doubt, HarryR.

[05:16] <Larry> Eating in bed is messy unless you're crippled. Then, getting to a table can be messier. I haven't been crippled in 2+ years.

[05:16] <Harry_Red> Part of the job description Larry. You alwasy end up questioning things.

[05:16] <SteveS> Sounds like a huge pain in the butt.

[05:17] <SteveS> The tendon thing, not fixing breakfast.

[05:17] <SteveS> :-)

[05:17] <errhead> good thing eating at the table can still be romantic

[05:17] <Harry_Red> Especially a small table.

[05:19] <Kren_away> Hi Larry. Looks like I'm the only larryniven.org manager here to greet you.

[05:19] *** Kren_away is now known as krenon

[05:19] <Larry> I turned in two novels, both collab, in the past month. Tom Doherty didn't know I'd turned in Ringworld's Children--

[05:20] <Larry> so I'm waiting for reactions to three novels.

[05:20] <Harry_Red> Interesting article here> Primitive Sculls found on Baja. http://www.sciencenews.org/20030906/fob8.asp

[05:20] <errhead> woohoo!

[05:20] <SteveS> Great news!

[05:20] <Larry> Hi, Kren_away.

[05:21] <krenon> I changed my nick back to the usual one. This is Ted

[05:21] <Harry_Red> Good for you Larry.

[05:21] <Larry> Make that four books. I'm getting reactions to Scatterbrain, and they're good.

[05:21] <Harry_Red> You going to take a break for a bit now?

[05:21] <krenon> We still get questions about The Ghost Ships. Had one the other day.

[05:21] <Larry> Correction: Hi, Ted. How you?

[05:21] <krenon> Good.

[05:22] <krenon> Got your "hi" from Torcon via Kay my friend from San Jose

[05:22] <Larry> I seem to be on break. I think I should try a Draco Tavern story. It would fit my contract--

[05:22] <krenon> That would be good. Think you could write a longer one?

[05:22] <Larry> Thus finishing a book of DT stories. Very cost-effective.

[05:22] <Harry_Red> eg says Hi.

[05:23] <errhead> burning tower would be one of the collabs, what's the other one?

[05:23] <Larry> A longer Draco Tavern story might pop up. I'm not inspired yet.

[05:24] <Harry_Red> Have you done a story on aliens that actually fly Saucer shaped ships and who visited Earth in the "early days"?

[05:24] <Larry> Burning Tower (w/Jerry) and Creation Myth (w/ Brenda Cooper, now up for sale.)

[05:24] <krenon> There are things I'd like to know about the Draco Tavern, that maybe you've never mentioned.

[05:24] <Larry> Kzinti ships include saucers. Ted, what are those things? I never yet described toilets.

[05:25] <Harry_Red> Peg says Hi and sends a Hug.

[05:25] <krenon> :-)

[05:25] <Larry> Hi, Peg!

[05:25] <SteveS> Any little shiny blue bits in sand involved?

[05:25] <Harry_Red> Kzin not part of the DT universe are they?

[05:26] <krenon> That's one question: just what *is* the DT universe?

[05:26] <Larry> No, Kzinti aren't in the DT universe. What shiny blue bits?

[05:26] <SteveS> In the kitty litter.

[05:26] <SteveS> :-)

[05:27] <Larry> The Draco Tavern universe starts when Chirp ships make contact a few years from some generic NOW.

[05:27] <Harry_Red> Hmmm, one wonders about the Kzin and what they used. (Please don't answer; "Anything they ant to".)

[05:27] <krenon> Where the DT is in relation to the earth as we know it? How far from the nearest spaceport?

[05:27] <SteveS> Siberia, I thought.

[05:27] <krenon> How old is Rick?

[05:27] <Larry> Steve, I'd be stealing from Space Quest V!

[05:27] <krenon> Is there a woman in his life?

[05:28] <krenon> Q's like that.

[05:28] <Harry_Red> Nothing says you can't have a space port in SDiberia.

[05:28] <krenon> Maybe that's a good spot. There was one in the Australian outback in KS

[05:28] <Larry> There's a "waterfall room" in the kzinti ship in "Fly By Night".

[05:28] <Harry_Red> More like HOW MANY women are in Rick's life Ted. /;-]

[05:29] <SteveS> The middle of nowhere would be safer with all those rocket exhausts splashing around.

[05:29] <krenon> I mean is there one special one? Was there ever "THE woman" for him?

[05:29] <krenon> I think a longer story might tie some of the shorter ones together.

[05:29] <Harry_Red> Not to mention various kinds of Fields from various kinds of drives.

[05:30] <Larry> One woman for Rick: see "Smut Talk" (Playboy Jan 2000 or Scatterbrain.)

[05:30] <SteveS> Which suggests another question -- how would the EPA react to mysterious fields from alien spacecraft?

[05:31] <Larry> Steve, I should consider that question. Maybe pressure groups could shut down the DT. Next ship's passengers wander about the Earth...

[05:32] <krenon> OK: an introduction to a book with all the DT stories. Something for someone who hasn't read any.

[05:32] <krenon> Perhaps written in the third person since all the DT stories are in the first.

[05:32] <SteveS> I'd be honored if a throwaway idea of mine could help.

[05:33] <Larry> I should certainly write an Introduction to the DT stories, and will.

[05:33] <Harry_Red> And end up being so disruptive that EarthGove wants to SUBSADIZE Rick to reopen the DT?

[05:33] <SteveS> :-)

[05:33] <krenon> That could in itself be a story.

[05:33] <Larry> Exactly, Harry.

[05:34] <krenon> Perhaps that's already happened?

[05:34] <Harry_Red> Great minds Larry. I can See Rick holding out for ABSOLUTLY NO INTERFEARANCE. You know, Where Gov money goes, Gove Regulations follows.

[05:35] <krenon> To define the DT you need to redefile "Tavern" or "Bar"

[05:35] <krenon> redefine

[05:35] <Harry_Red> I could see various Aliens Supporting Rick in that too. They wouldn't want to be over run by Reporters, Anthropoligists and Congressional Committies.

[05:36] <Larry> redefine, check...but it's normal enough for a bar to offer food. DT has to keep huge storage.

[05:36] <krenon> Oh absolutely. Indeed its operation would surely be mixed up with interworld politics

[05:37] <Harry_Red> Local Earth Politics could be Humorous enough. Whern contimplating Interworld Politics Oi!

[05:37] <krenon> So how big is it? How much business does it do? Does it sell anything besides "refreshment"? Is Rick Schumann the sole owner?

[05:37] <Larry> Twice the DT has been shut down. Maybe I'll work from there, Once was after an execution on TV. Once was a terrorist attack.

[05:37] <krenon> Is he the owner at all?

[05:38] *** Nesssus has joined #knownspace

[05:38] <Harry_Red> Hi Nessus.

[05:38] <SteveS> "Hi, Nessssus!

[05:38] <Nesssus> Hi Steve, Harry

[05:38] <Larry> Hi, Nessus!

[05:38] <Nesssus> Fithp?

[05:38] <krenon> Yes

[05:39] <Nesssus> Oh, Hi Larry

[05:39] <SteveS> Yup, either that Larry, or a very convincing imitation. :-)

[05:39] <krenon> :-D

[05:39] <Harry_Red> Hmmm DOPPLEGANGERS at the DT?

[05:40] <Harry_Red> 2 conflicting Drive fields )of wildly diffrent types) produce a Glitch in Time?

[05:41] <SteveS> Agoraphobic aliens who visit the tavern in teleoperated robot suits?

[05:41] <Harry_Red> Not bad Steve.

[05:41] <SteveS> Thanks.

[05:42] <Harry_Red> The trouble with Robotic Suits is 2 fold. They give the user a feeling of invincibility, and their control frequencys can be hijacked and over ridden.

[05:43] <Larry> A notion. Thanks, Steve.

[05:43] <SteveS> Cool.

[05:43] <Larry> 3 fold. An AI might pose as teleoperated.

[05:44] <Nesssus> I just got finished with MKW X last night. That last story, "Peter Robinson" was a little gem by Hal Colebatch.

[05:44] <Harry_Red> For the AGRAPHOBES, Perhaps an Isolation area and Holo-projection Inside the DT. I can't realy see Agraphobes exploring space though.

[05:44] <SteveS> A hijacked or AI-run suit could do things that embarrass the owner.

[05:44] <krenon> Hal Colebatch seems to be not very well known in Australia

[05:45] <Nesssus> How do you feel, Larry about Hal writing in the Ringworld Throne era of Known Space?

[05:45] <Harry_Red> Truly Steve. Imagine the Lawsuits over a Hijacked Suit and the damage it did.

[05:45] <SteveS> :still needs to get MKW X, but at least bought and read Scatterbrain.

[05:46] * SteveS used the wrong emote command. :-)

[05:47] <Harry_Red> I'll wait untill I get to LOSCON to get them... Provided I do get there.

[05:48] <krenon> I see LA got the Worldcon for 2006.

[05:48] <Harry_Red> That will be interesting.

[05:48] <krenon> LACon 4

[05:48] <krenon> And Nasfic 2005 is in Seattle.

[05:49] <Nesssus> Nasfic?

[05:49] <Harry_Red> Nor5th American Science Fiction COnvention. For fen that can't get overseas from the US.

[05:49] <krenon> North American Science Fiction - held when Worldcon is outside North America.

[05:50] <SteveS> Ah.

[05:50] <Nesssus> So it was held this year - but not last?

[05:50] <krenon> Neither.

[05:50] <krenon> Toronto is in North America

[05:50] <Larry> I've written Kzinti into the Beowulf Shaeffer era. A new guy is writing protectors, doing it well. I guess I'd put up with Hal in Ringworld time.

[05:50] <Harry_Red> LOSCON usually does well for those fen taking an extended tour from WORLDCON too.

[05:51] <Nesssus> Is the "new guy" M J Harrington?

[05:52] <krenon> I am currently looking at the idea of going to Interaction, returning via the US and catching the Nasfic.

[05:52] <Larry> Yes: M. J. Harrington. He's brilliant if flaky.

[05:53] <Larry> He's turned in two stories for, I expect, MKW11&12.

[05:54] <Nesssus> Hal wrote that he's got two more lined up already, Three at the Table and the Grossgeister Swamp

[05:54] <krenon> MKW is threatening to become like MASH - longer than the war it depicted :-)

[05:54] <SteveS> <g>

[05:54] <Harry_Red> There were 4 wars and a HUGH number if "incident's) as I recall.

[05:55] <krenon> That's good. I must look out for a book of Hal's poetry.

[05:55] <Harry_Red> Hmmm, COMBAT did that too. 4 years of fighting in France after D-Day.

[05:56] <Nesssus> There were six MK wars according to Ringworld

[05:56] <Harry_Red> I stand corrected.

[05:56] <Larry> four, six, depends on what counts as a "war".

[05:56] <krenon> Skirmishes. When does a skirmish become a war?

[05:57] <Harry_Red> Even with FTL drive, War's take a long time to fight. Mobalization, Weapons Production, getting what you need to where you need it... All take organization time.

[05:58] <Harry_Red> Usually a Skirmish becomes a WAR when Massive amounts of Assets are dispatched.

[05:58] <SteveS> Scream, transport materiel for a while, *then* leap. :-)

[05:58] <Harry_Red> *LOL*

[05:58] <krenon> Meaning plenty of scope for another 12 MKW books?

[05:58] <krenon> 10

[05:59] <Harry_Red> Maybe enough for 20 if people can find enough things to say.

[05:59] <Larry> I was going to quit at 10. Then Harrington popped up, and Colebatch had a whole books's worth, and now Chafe is working on a 200,000 word novel.

[05:59] <Nesssus> As long as the ideas keep coming....

[06:00] <krenon> Bur surely a novel wouldn't be a part of the series?

[06:00] <Larry> As long as the ideas stay interesting. I'm picky, dammit.

[06:00] <krenon> I should hope so.

[06:01] <Larry> A novel would be extraordinary; but you've seen fix-up novels: The Children's Hour, and one by Poul & Karen Anderson.

[06:01] <Nesssus> Chafe's "Windows of the Soul" story about the ARM on Tiamat was really inspired. It was if I was reading another Gil The Arm tale by the master himself....

[06:02] <Harry_Red> I have toi wonder, How dies Gil die?

[06:02] <Larry> Affirmative. Chafe's good.

[06:03] <Nesssus> Any title coming for that 200K jobby?

[06:03] <krenon> Probably in a boring way.

[06:03] <Larry> Interesting, Harry. Detective killed halfway through the book? Agatha Christie did that, sort of.

[06:03] <Nesssus> What, she killed off Miss Marples...?

[06:03] <Harry_Red> That could work well larry a real HOOK.

[06:04] <krenon> But the Gil the ARM stories were all in the first person. To kill the narrator would be kinda tricky.

[06:04] <Harry_Red> Bringing Lucas Garner into the fore?

[06:05] <krenon> Not unthinkable. Doyle killed Holmes, then resurrected him.

[06:05] <Nesssus> Maybe a clone of Gil's continued the narration?

[06:05] <SteveS> The poor, late Gil. Nothing left of him but his trick arm, which writes the rest of his story.

[06:05] <Nesssus> lol

[06:05] * SteveS bows

[06:06] <Larry> Ted's right: I can't do it. As for Agatha, Poirot died before the end of Nemesis. Steve, :(

[06:07] <SteveS> It popped into my head, and I just had to write it. :-)

[06:07] <krenon> I recall a first person story about a nuclear holocausr in which the death of the narrator marked the end of the book.

[06:07] <krenon> holocaust

[06:08] <Harry_Red> SUNSET BULAVARD used that trick.

[06:08] <Harry_Red> BOULAVARD... THE movie.

[06:08] <Nesssus> But how would Gil die? In a crashing spaceship, plugged into a doud, being dismembered by an Organlegger that he failed to catch...?

[06:08] *** ravidor has joined #knownspace

[06:08] <SteveS> Hi, ravidor!

[06:08] <Nesssus> Hi Ravidor

[06:08] <ravidor> Hi

[06:08] <Harry_Red> Shootout?

[06:08] <krenon> Or just fading away in a nursing home ;-)

[06:09] <Larry> "Earthset Highway"...hmm

[06:09] <Harry_Red> Hi Ravidor.

[06:09] <ravidor> Hi

[06:09] <Harry_Red> I don't see GIL dieing peacefully or Bey Shaffer either.

[06:09] <Nesssus> or Louis

[06:10] <krenon> Bey would surely eventually get himself into a tight corner and not be able to think fast enough to get out.

[06:10] <Harry_Red> Where Louis currently is, I doubt that OLD AGE is a common form of death.

[06:11] <krenon> Or: Bey goes back to We Made It in his old age and forgets about the winds...

[06:11] <SteveS> Good point.

[06:11] <SteveS> Last time he was on his homeworld, he *was* a lot taller. That could throw him off.

[06:12] <Nesssus> I wonder if you could fly a kite on We Made It?

[06:12] <Nesssus> Those winds would probably launch it into orbit.

[06:12] <Harry_Red> I suspect he'd run into buerocratic troubvle if bey went home. Much would not match.

[06:13] <Harry_Red> Depending on the strength of the teather.

[06:13] <krenon> There was certainly the potential to use a little bit of the energy. Remember they didn't want to destroy the winds because they were a tourist attraction.

[06:13] <ravidor> Whould Bey dare go home?

[06:13] <krenon> One last look at the place where he was born. Nostalgia.

[06:13] <Harry_Red> Hmmm, EXTREAM SPORTS Hang Gliding on We made It.

[06:14] <Larry> Bey's remarks re winds were sarcastic. He was glad to leave.

[06:14] <krenon> Or desperation. Old age ennui.

[06:14] *** TreeHuggr has joined #knownspace

[06:14] <Nesssus> That would be something for that death-seeking turtle from the Draco Tavern to try.

[06:14] <Harry_Red> Or the GIrl I left behind me.

[06:14] <SteveS> Hi, Treehuggr!

[06:14] <Nesssus> Hi Treehuggr

[06:14] <krenon> Oh I'm sure he didn't want to stay there long. But to see just once more the place of his birth?

[06:14] <Harry_Red> Hi Hugger.

[06:14] <TreeHuggr> Hi. Almost forgot. Thanks, Frank!

[06:14] <krenon> Yeah. That too.

[06:15] <ravidor> What will Bey try next? Won't he get board?

[06:16] <krenon> Sure.

[06:16] <TreeHuggr> What's the topic?

[06:17] <Nesssus> The recent releases

[06:17] <Larry> Re Beowulf: I'll await inspiration. Probably astrophysical.

[06:17] <krenon> Nobody is opped. We can't set one ;-)

[06:17] <Harry_Red> Beyt is one of those people that things happen to. Life around him would never be boreing... or comfortable.

[06:17] <SteveS> Scatterbrain and MKW X were the official topics given on the list.

[06:17] <TreeHuggr> Ah. Cool....

[06:17] <Nesssus> Well.... CrazyEddy's opped... but he's most likely asleep

[06:17] <ravidor> Bey in MKW XI

[06:17] * Nesssus slaps CrazyEddy around a bit with a large trout

[06:18] <krenon> Possible. It's just 6.20 am here.

[06:18] <CrazyEddy> Morning.

[06:18] <krenon> :-D

[06:18] <Nesssus> The trout worked!!!

[06:18] <Nesssus> lol

[06:18] <Nesssus> Morning Eddy!

[06:18] <TreeHuggr> Praise be to the trout!

[06:18] *** CrazyEddy sets mode: +oo Nesssus Harry_Red

[06:18] <CrazyEddy> Morning Larry. :-)

[06:19] <Nesssus> Thanks Eddy!

[06:19] *** Nesssus changes topic to 'New releases: Scatterbrain and MKW X'

[06:19] <CrazyEddy> Nesssus :-)

[06:19] <SteveS> Morning, Eddy!

[06:19] <CrazyEddy> And Steve.

[06:19] <Larry> Morning, Crazy Eddie.

[06:20] <CrazyEddy> There was a network bot here retaining the ops for a while, but it disappeared.

[06:21] <krenon> Yes. We need to contact the owner.

[06:21] <Nesssus> How long's it been gone? Haven't checked the channel since we used it last month.

[06:22] <TreeHuggr> What's new in the astrophysics field that Bey could go check out?

[06:22] <CrazyEddy> *** ChanServ is ChanServ@ircservices.illusionary.com (Channel Services)

[06:22] <Harry_Red> Dark Enegery? Dark Matter? A Brown Dwarf with planets?

[06:23] <TreeHuggr> I saw some images recently . . . one was a ring galaxy, a blue ring around a brilliant yellow core. The view must be incredible.

[06:23] <Larry> There's a lot new in astrophysics and astronomy. Brenda and I covered free floating planets, the frozen-over Earth, Pluto and Charon, but there's lots more.

[06:23] <TreeHuggr> A universe full, indeed.

[06:24] -> *ChanServ@ircservices.illusionary.com* auth krenon k0s1m0s

[06:24] <Harry_Red> Hmmm, Didn;'t Bulmer have Free Travelers in WHEN EARTH COLLIDES?

[06:24] <CrazyEddy> What about that asteroid that's due to hit earth in just under 900 years?

[06:24] <krenon> What about the one that's due in 2014?

[06:24] <TreeHuggr> No, that's just my ship.

[06:24] <Harry_Red> I suspect that THE ARM would take exception to an asteroid like that.

[06:25] <TreeHuggr> :-)

[06:25] <SteveS> Mined and moved by Belters, centuries before the due date, I would imagine.

[06:25] <ravidor> Terrorist attack?

[06:25] <CrazyEddy> They reckon the 2014 one probably won't hit.

[06:25] <Nesssus> 2900 is past Bey's time. Louis could go see though.

[06:25] <TreeHuggr> What's Bey time?

[06:25] <krenon> Lucifer's Hammer probably wouldn't hit..

[06:25] <krenon> 2600's

[06:25] <Harry_Red> As to the 2014 encounter, Orbits preturb. An eye should bve kept on objects like that.

[06:25] <CrazyEddy> No, they're pretty sure the 900 year one will hit.

[06:26] <Nesssus> 2014 is named for this year - so they only just spotted that one

[06:26] *** Redflame has joined #knownspace

[06:26] <Nesssus> Hi Carol

[06:26] <Redflame> Hello!

[06:26] <krenon> If the inhabitants of the earth can't deal with an asteroid in 900 years they deserve to die.

[06:26] <Harry_Red> At the rate NASA, the UN and Us Government works, we'd better start now as we are already behind!

[06:26] <Larry> Hi, Carol!

[06:26] <Redflame> People have been here awhile, eh?

[06:27] *** Nesssus sets mode: +o Redflame

[06:27] <Harry_Red> Hi Carol.

[06:27] <Redflame> Hello, Larry! How was Tor Con?

[06:27] <Redflame> Hello, Ted, Redd!

[06:27] <Nesssus> Yes, 45 minutes at least

[06:27] <TreeHuggr> Hi, Carol.

[06:27] <SteveS> Hi, Carol!

[06:27] <Redflame> Hi George, Steve!

[06:28] <Larry> I'm with Ted. The planet's bright minds are aware of the Dinosaur Killer Problem. If they can't fix it in 900 years, let 'em die with the consequences.

[06:28] <Redflame> Hey, my first sparring lesson was last night! I was only in one match that was judged and points given. I was slaughtered, but I got a point on a black belt, and she wasn't just being nice!

[06:28] <TreeHuggr> In the 2600's, that asteroid will be only 300 years off. Of course, it'll probably be mined to pebbles before it gets here!

[06:29] <Larry> Tor Con was good. Fun to be had. I'd have loved to see you there.

[06:29] <SteveS> Way to go, Carol!

[06:29] <Nesssus> in 900 years time maybe they can just stick the whole planet in a stasis field and let it bounce off!

[06:29] <Harry_Red> Red, you often learn more from losing than winning.

[06:29] <TreeHuggr> I'd have loved to see me there too.

[06:29] <CrazyEddy> What bothers me is what happens if we're plunged back into another dark ages before the problem's dealt with.

[06:30] <TreeHuggr> What was the best part of the con?

[06:30] <Redflame> Larry, I might have gone if I could have found a room mate.

[06:30] <Harry_Red> I can just see Islamic terrorists trying to deal with THAT problem.

[06:30] <krenon> To deflect an asteroid id conceptually very easy. It's the practical side that matters. Given a long lead time, though, it should be straightforward.

[06:30] <Harry_Red> Of any kind of FUNDY for that matter.

[06:30] <SteveS> With lucky humans on Earth, even if nobody touches it (unlikely), a pocket of gas will be exposed, and jet the rock off its course.

[06:31] <ravidor> Will be used to build a Dyson sphere

[06:31] <Redflame> Redd, I got some really good feedback. I get four more sparring lessons before World Tournament. Ya'll are welcome to come to Houstona nd watch me make a fool out of myself in front of THOUSANDS of people fromt he world over!

[06:31] <Nesssus> But we know it didn't hit.... "Safe At Any Speed" was set in 3200

[06:32] <Harry_Red> I do wish I could Carol

[06:32] <Larry> The Masquerade was good. Dinner with the Doherty clan was good. I was on a perfect panel. Nothing really shines.

[06:32] <Redflame> On a perfect panel isnt' shinning?

[06:32] <TreeHuggr> Yeah, and the guy in that story wasn't very lucky. Maybe the lucky ones ended up staying on Earth.

[06:33] <SteveS> How much mutation would it take to turn a lucky gene unlucky?

[06:33] <TreeHuggr> Or into something else entirely?

[06:33] <TreeHuggr> Hmmmmmm

[06:33] <Harry_Red> Good question Steve.

[06:33] <TreeHuggr> Yeah

[06:33] <SteveS> And would the potential lucky gene fight it out with the potential unlucky gene to go into a given person?

[06:33] <ravidor> What is a mutation of luck gebe?

[06:33] <Larry> Okay, the panel was great. Global Climate Predictions. I made notes. Maybe a story will emerge.

[06:34] *** CarolTLP has joined #knownspace

[06:34] <krenon> That in itself would be bad luck, inadmissable to someone with a lucky gene.

[06:34] <TreeHuggr> Mmmmm. . . . story . . . !

[06:34] <SteveS> Unless there's a large population of unluckies pushing from the future to make sure they exist.

[06:34] <TreeHuggr> I keep hearing that now it's not our fault the planet is changing.

[06:35] <krenon> Depends on what change you're talking about. Cutting down forests surely is "us".

[06:35] <TreeHuggr> It's always been in a process of change.

[06:35] <Nesssus> In Fallen Angels, Larry and co wrote that our pollution was actually holding back an iceage

[06:35] <TreeHuggr> Long before we got here.

[06:35] <Larry> We're definitely pumping unprecedented carbon dioxide levels into the atmosphere.

[06:35] <CarolTLP> Ultimately it doesn't matter how much of any climate change is our fault. The point is that we will be affected by it, and if there is something we COULD do, we need to investigate it.

[06:35] <TreeHuggr> We change the direction a little, and the speed a lot, maybe.

[06:36] <krenon> But, eg, how much enhanced volcanic activity would push the same anount of CO2 out?

[06:36] <Harry_Red> I read an article that said that the Earth's atmosphere acted like a Wilson Cloud chamber in regard to Cosmic Rays. Cosmic Ray minimum ment fewer low level clousd forming, therefor more heat recieved at ground level from the sun... Global warming.

[06:36] <Larry> Word was, we've been in an ice age for millennia.

[06:36] <SteveS> There was a recent article in Analog that suggested some warming may not be so bad.

[06:36] <TreeHuggr> Massive atmosphere change is bad for many, good for some. "Green Marauder", anyone?

[06:37] <SteveS> Historically, storms were less severe during warm periods, and more severe during colder periods.

[06:37] <krenon> The Americans' partiality to ice in their drinks will soon bring that to an end.

[06:37] <CarolTLP> I want any changes to be good for US!

[06:37] <TreeHuggr> But can the ice age keep up with our heat waste and the CO2?

[06:37] <Nesssus> If the summer we've just had is any indication of what it is going to be like, then I'm all for it!

[06:37] *** django has joined #knownspace

[06:37] <django> greetings all

[06:37] <krenon> Hi

[06:37] <SteveS> Hi, Django!

[06:37] <CarolTLP> Hello, Django!

[06:37] <ravidor> I want an ice age

[06:37] <TreeHuggr> Good for us?? Oh, now we're getting picky! :-)

[06:37] <ravidor> please

[06:37] <krenon> I want a nice age

[06:38] <SteveS> :-)

[06:38] <TreeHuggr> An Aquarian age?

[06:38] <CarolTLP> George, I have been accused of being picky before.

[06:38] <django> wasn't that about 40 years ago?

[06:38] <ravidor> space ae?

[06:38] <Nesssus> A Piscean age.... waterworld memories

[06:38] * CarolTLP smiles at Ted

[06:38] <krenon> Yuck

[06:38] <CarolTLP> django, an age is 2000 years long.

[06:39] * krenon smiles at Carol - memories of this time last year.

[06:39] <TreeHuggr> It is?

[06:39] <CarolTLP> We moved into Pisces from Taurus about 2000 years ago.

[06:39] <django> sorry - just remember my parents playing some "age of aquarius" thing on long car journeys ;)

[06:39] <Harry_Red> Hmm: Re Unlucky Genes. I've been told tat the time a Human is most in danger is in fetel development and for the first 6 mo after birth. An unlucky gene would not survive to reproduce.

[06:39] * CarolTLP has fond memories of last year too!

[06:40] <SteveS> I didn't think of that.

[06:40] <TreeHuggr> Females would be luckier than males. What does that portend?

[06:40] <Harry_Red> Unlucky is unlucky.

[06:40] <CarolTLP> smaller heads and easier births.

[06:40] <ravidor> but if parent have lucky gene and they want the baby?

[06:40] <Larry> I'm off. Been a pleasure chatting with y'all.

[06:40] <CarolTLP> Larry, sorry I wasn't here earlier! Nice seeing you!

[06:41] <django> if we're saying a small head is an aid to survival, why aren't there intelligent (yeah, I know) marsupials?

[06:41] *** Larry has quit IRC (Leaving)

[06:41] <SteveS> OK. See ya, Larry!

[06:41] <ravidor> bye bye

[06:41] <TreeHuggr> Once a developing baby goes male, it becomes more fragile. Luck wopuld make it female. Maybe only females carry the luck gene?

[06:41] <CarolTLP> That is interesting. Larry never said what gender lucky people were, but for Teela, did he?

[06:42] <TreeHuggr> Not that I recall.

[06:42] <Nesssus> They were of both sexes in RW

[06:42] <ravidor> safe at any speed was a male?

[06:42] <Nesssus> Yes

[06:42] <CarolTLP> Why is a male more fragile than a female. I must have missed something.

[06:42] <Nesssus> Males have a shorter lifespan

[06:42] <Harry_Red> Adios Larry

[06:42] <krenon> Maybe the luck gene was on the x chromosome.

[06:42] <SteveS> Female brains are better at routing around severe head injuries than male.

[06:43] <Nesssus> Is that because males usually only have one thing on their minds.. <g>

[06:43] <CarolTLP> Males only have a slightly shorter lifespan, and that is just because more females aren't dying in childbirth like they used to. I don't think a tiny fraction shorter life can be called "Unlucky"

[06:43] <ravidor> Female are better but do they have more luck?

[06:44] <CarolTLP> Steve, that is a point. ANd as I've explained to Keegan is regards to waht a protective cup is, there are things about males that make them very fragile and delicate.

[06:44] <krenon> I don't think that has much to do with luck.

[06:44] <ravidor> I think males are more lucky, we get the females :-)

[06:44] <django> LOL

[06:44] <TreeHuggr> Just saw this last week on a special thing on TV. Something about the thing that triggers maleness also weakens the whole system. Female fetuses have much more chance to survive to birth.

[06:44] <CarolTLP> WEll, some females get the females too.

[06:44] <SteveS> But your genes tell you to think that. :-)

[06:45] <ravidor> well then those females have the proto gene too

[06:45] <Harry_Red> One of the things that give males a shorter lifespan over all is that males get into more dangerous situations than females. It's part of the EXPLORER/HUNTER/TERRITORIAL codeing.

[06:45] <TreeHuggr> Enzyme? Whatever, it spreads through the body, making the cells male.

[06:45] <Harry_Red> No, your genes influence HOW you think.

[06:45] <CarolTLP> HORMONE. The Uterus has a wash of testosterone, and thta makes the fetus male. Before that, no matter waht the genes said, it was a female.

[06:46] <django> the content of my jeans used to influence how I think... then I got married

[06:46] <krenon> jeans?

[06:46] <TreeHuggr> Once the body is male, it gets enough testosterone dumped in it for a grown man.

[06:46] <django> genes/jeans - poor pun

[06:46] <SteveS> And some genetic males are immune to that hormone, so they become super-female in appearance.

[06:46] <Harry_Red> If your jeans are Levis, does that make you jewish?

[06:46] <CarolTLP> Super female?

[06:47] <django> if they contain a quarter pounder, then you're a MacDonalds ;)

[06:47] <ravidor> Super female?

[06:47] <TreeHuggr> Yeah, all babies start female. No hormone/enzyme/thingy, they develop female.

[06:47] <CarolTLP> I;ve neve rheard of a fetus immune to testosterone, but strange things do happen.

[06:48] <django> you've only got to look @ female bodybuilders to see that testosterone causes issues

[06:48] <TreeHuggr> eww

[06:48] <TreeHuggr> no thanks

[06:48] <SteveS> They're supposed to be very attractive. Whatever show I remember seeing this on speculated that many supermodels may be genetically male.

[06:48] <CarolTLP> I think it is wise to have the default be female, since with more females than males the species could survive better than with mostly males and few females.

[06:48] <TreeHuggr> yep

[06:48] <CarolTLP> I don't consider supermodels to be super attractive.

[06:48] <krenon> Gotta go. Back about 8 am my time; that's 3 pm Pacific or 5 pm Central

[06:48] <CarolTLP> I consider them to be rather plain and boyish.

[06:48] <SteveS> Depends on the supermodel.

[06:48] <Nesssus> ok ted

[06:48] *** krenon is now known as Kren_away

[06:49] <Harry_Red> Mostly Males and few females wouldn't last long... China is heading for trouble in that respect.

[06:49] <TreeHuggr> Got no use for what they call supermodels.

[06:49] <CarolTLP> See ya Ted.

[06:49] <CarolTLP> I think the perfect female body is at least a size 16, and that is considered large.

[06:50] <Harry_Red> Me either. Super Modeles are rhe result of people in power who were bottle fed as babys.

[06:50] * SteveS chuckles

[06:50] <django> the barbie mentality is a pain

[06:50] <ravidor> Maybe a different lucky gene for male and female (and super female / supermodle)?

[06:50] <CarolTLP> smaller women don't look healthy enough to carry babies and large packs, nor have any endurance.

[06:50] <TreeHuggr> It's all propaganda and publicity.

[06:50] <Nesssus> Marilyn Munroe was supposed to be a size 16

[06:50] <ravidor> What cup?

[06:51] <django> look @ some of the renaissance art some time... they weren't into skinny women back then...

[06:51] <CarolTLP> I heard that. I was shocked to hear that. But then, I don't think she was that pretty, even if her body was what I would consider the perfect size. Maybe I'm just not attracted to bleach blondes.

[06:51] <Nesssus> In Africa the larger female shape is more popular

[06:51] <ravidor> Marlinyn Munroe didn't have the proto luck gene

[06:51] <SteveS> What I've seen of her before she became "Marilyn Monroe" was better looking.

[06:52] <django> back in a bit

[06:52] *** django is now known as django_go

[06:52] <Nesssus> I think the thing with Munroe is that her bust and hips were size 16 - but she had an itty bitty waist (probably a 12) that emphasized the rest

[06:52] <ravidor> dudn't help her a lot, did it?

[06:53] <Nesssus> I don't think it was her blonde hair that gave her that enigmatic quality - it was her naive and baby girl act

[06:53] <ravidor> I think there was more then that

[06:54] <Nesssus> They still are not sure that she actually killed herself... there are rumours that the CIA had something to do with her death

[06:54] <Harry_Red> She had the proto LUCK gene, just made some very BAD choices.

[06:54] <Nesssus> In a similar way that there are rumours about the British Secret Service assassinating Princess Diana

[06:54] <ravidor> Yes, and she was an alien

[06:55] <ravidor> both of them

[06:55] <Harry_Red> Sjhe had the LUCK protogene, just made some very bad choices from the results of it.

[06:55] <errhead> the third chimpanzee by jared diamond gives a lot of detail about the 'super-feminine' males who don't respond properly to the testosterone their testes produce, and so end up with long legs, big busts, and feminine external genitalia

[06:55] <errhead> but no uterus/ovaries, just internalized testes

[06:55] <SteveS> That's probably where I saw it, then.

[06:55] <Harry_Red> she had the protoluck gene, just made some very bad choices from the results.

[06:56] <SteveS> Glad to hear I wasn't hallucinating it... ;-)

[06:57] <ravidor> Tela as Marliyn Munroe

[06:57] <CarolTLP> Internalized testes sound like malformed ovaries!

[06:57] <errhead> if there's a good luck gene, then there should be a bad luck gene too, though it's probably not a very successful mutation

[06:58] <ravidor> good night

[06:58] <SteveS> That's what male hormones do -- change potential female genitalia into male.

[06:58] <Harry_Red> Adios Ravi.

[06:58] <Nesssus> bye Rav

[06:58] <SteveS> Night, Rav!

[06:58] *** ravidor has quit IRC

[06:59] <CarolTLP> Yes, I've read all about how females turn into males, mostly in a book that talks about how horrid circumscisions are.

[06:59] <SteveS> And there are some people who have genitalia somewhere between the two, because something went wrong with the amount of hormoens, or their reaction to them.

[07:01] <TreeHuggr> Got to go, folks. Wish I'd gotten here sooner. Next time, I hope!

[07:01] <SteveS> See ya, Huggr!

[07:01] <errhead> wonder if any planets in known space practice circumcision?

[07:01] <Nesssus> bye Treehug

[07:01] <CarolTLP> See ya George!

[07:01] <errhead> bye

[07:01] <TreeHuggr> byeeeeeeee

[07:01] *** TreeHuggr has quit IRC (Leaving)

[07:01] <errhead> mayhap wunderlander asymetrical circumcision?

[07:01] <CarolTLP> I think it is a horrid barbaric practice.

[07:01] * SteveS chuckles

[07:01] <Nesssus> It's a religious practice. Religion is mostly dead in KS

[07:01] <CarolTLP> Yes, err, :-)

[07:02] <Harry_Red> It is healthier though. No place for nasty bugs to harbour.

[07:02] <SteveS> Yeah, surely that weird Victorian practice will go away eventually.

[07:02] <CarolTLP> People in the US think of it as a health practice.

[07:02] <errhead> it's pretty secular in america

[07:02] <CarolTLP> I heard it because rarer in Europe when insurance stopped paying for it. I'd like to see insurance stop paying for it here.

[07:03] <errhead> my insurance wouldn't pay for it 6 years ago when my son was born, not that i'd have had it done anyway

[07:03] <CarolTLP> Where are you err?

[07:03] <errhead> seattle washington

[07:04] <CarolTLP> glad to hear there is ONE smart insurance co, at least smart in ONE respect.

[07:04] <CarolTLP> I dont' kow if GEHA would pay. I was more afraid that the hospital staff would do it anyway.

[07:04] <SteveS> Force of tradition, unfortunately.

[07:05] <Harry_Red> Tired here and I've got to go.

[07:05] <Nesssus> Ok, Bye Harry

[07:05] <errhead> bye

[07:05] <SteveS> Bye, Frank!

[07:06] <Harry_Red> Adios all.

[07:06] <Harry_Red> -GONE+++

[07:06] <CarolTLP> Well, all anyone would need to do to shy away from circumcision would be to read "Say no to circumcision" The pictures would scare anyone away, even if they couldn't read.

[07:06] *** Harry_Red has left #knownspace

[07:06] <CarolTLP> Bye Redd!

[07:06] <errhead> does it cover female circumcision too?

[07:07] <errhead> cuz that's one 'cultural tradition' that shouldn't be humoured

[07:08] <CarolTLP> Don't remember any on female circumcision. That is far nastier, and thankfully, far rarer/

[07:09] <Nesssus> They do it in Africa

[07:09] <errhead> i missed most of the chat unfortunately, did larry give any information about his recently finished collaboration with brenda? anyone know what it's about?

[07:10] <Nesssus> Creation Myth??

[07:10] <CarolTLP> Isn't that the one that is about a generation ship?

[07:10] <errhead> yeah, that was the title he gave

[07:10] <CarolTLP> It is finished?

[07:11] <errhead> that's what he said

[07:11] <Nesssus> Brenda said back in June that they were still Tweaking it.

[07:11] <errhead> he had just finished 3 books, and was wondering what to work on next, leaning toward a dracos tavern story

[07:11] <Nesssus> We'll have to get the full log from Ted. I missed that

[07:12] <Nesssus> What were the other 2 books?

[07:12] <errhead> burning tower and ringworld's child (yah!)

[07:12] <CarolTLP> Maybe the Draco Tavern story coudl be the global climate change story?

[07:12] <Nesssus> Oh, of course. Orbit (UK) has publish dates for those already

[07:13] * CarolTLP looking forward to BURNING TOWER!

[07:13] <errhead> wish this java client had a decent scrollback buffer

[07:13] <Nesssus> Naah, RWC

[07:13] <Nesssus> The log will be posted lated on the website, Don

[07:14] <errhead> cool, will try to cultivate patience :)

[07:14] <SteveS> :-)

[07:14] <Nesssus> lated=later

[07:15] <Nesssus> Well. I'm going to pop off now as THE MAN left the building nearly an hour a go. Ted, when you get back from your walk, please send me the log file

[07:15] <Nesssus> Ta Ta

[07:15] <SteveS> See ya, Nesssus!

[07:15] <errhead> bye

[07:15] <CarolTLP> See ya Nesssus

[07:15] <Nesssus> Bye

[07:15] *** Nesssus has quit IRC

[07:16] <errhead> in puppeteer chat, do they always use 2 smileys at a time?

[07:16] <errhead> :) ;)

[07:16] <SteveS> :-)

[07:16] <CarolTLP> too many eyes!

[07:16] <SteveS> .) .)

[07:16] <errhead> (o o)

[07:18] <errhead> ?) ?)

[07:18] <SteveS> .} .}

[07:20] <CarolTLP> couple people leave so we all shut up?

[07:20] <SteveS> Apparently. :-)

[07:20] <errhead> woohoo, up to valentines day in my attempt to catch up on the list

[07:20] <SteveS> Wow! You are behind!

[07:20] <CarolTLP> That's a LONG itme ago!

[07:21] <CarolTLP> I actually have 159 from the old Bucknell list I havn'et read!

[07:21] <errhead> i took a break in january to avoid getting in a pointless flame war

[07:21] <CarolTLP> What flame was did you avoid?

[07:21] <CarolTLP> Was=war

[07:22] <errhead> peter williams just rubbed me way the wrong way, and keeping from flaming was getting difficult

[07:22] <CarolTLP> Peter rubbed lots of people the wrong way.

[07:22] <SteveS> Yup.

[07:22] <errhead> then the number of posts quickly spiraled into the thousands which made catching up daunting

[07:23] <CarolTLP> There are times we go over 100 a day, other times, not a one.

[07:23] <CarolTLP> If more people complain when there is someone who is causing trouble, the manager consortium will be able to LISTEN better.

[07:25] <SteveS> It didn't occur to me to complain. I just figured it would blow over. Even though he was being a jerk, it was just words.

[07:26] <errhead> yeah, normally when i am seized with the urge to ream someone out it's a failing on my part, so giving myself a timeout works well

[07:26] <CarolTLP> I thought I posted more than once to ask people to let the managers know how people feel.

[07:26] <CarolTLP> Good job, err.

[07:27] <CarolTLP> I try to remember when people disagree with me, that I"ve already had my say, and everyone doesn't need to hear me say the same thing again, just let it pass.

[07:27] <errhead> ah, maturity

[07:28] <errhead> i plan to achieve that someday

[07:28] <errhead> probably around the 23rd century

[07:28] <CarolTLP> Not that long, surely!

[07:28] <SteveS> :-)

[07:28] <errhead> well, it is the first step to senility

[07:29] <SteveS> Slippery slope, and all.

[07:29] <SteveS> <g>

[07:33] <CarolTLP> LIVING surely is the first step to senility.

[07:33] <errhead> good point

[07:34] <CarolTLP> And not every one goes senile.

[07:34] <CarolTLP> Many people just grow old and die, and skip the get sick part.

[07:34] <errhead> sure, just ruin all my arguments for an extended adolescence

[07:35] <errhead> but i still plan on living forever

[07:35] <CarolTLP> Depends on whoes adolesence you are talking about!

[07:35] <errhead> garner is my role model

[07:36] <CarolTLP> :-) Unfortunalty, he didn't skip the "Get sick" part.

[07:36] <errhead> hopefully we'll get nanotechnology working a lot sooner in this universe

[07:37] <CarolTLP> Or something.

[07:38] <CarolTLP> Many people feel that certian practices like Yoga and Martial arts help people maintain health longer.

[07:38] <errhead> i'll keep my faith in technology

[07:38] <errhead> cuz that's a lot easier

[07:38] <CarolTLP> a vitamin isn't as good as fresh food.

[07:39] <errhead> yet

[07:39] <CarolTLP> nothing takes the place of exersize, even anti depressants aren't as good!

[07:40] <SteveS> :-)

[07:40] <errhead> speaking of exercise, parenthood duties call again, see ya'all next month

[07:40] <CarolTLP> The hard part is finding some form of exersize that is actually fun.

[07:40] <SteveS> So that depressed little cartoon lump from the commercials should have been bouncing more, instead of taking that pill?

[07:40] <CarolTLP> see ya, err!

[07:40] <errhead> sex and dancing are the best exercise in my experience

[07:40] <SteveS> Oh. Bye, Err!

[07:40] <CarolTLP> LOL, Steve. Yes.

[07:41] *** errhead has quit IRC (Leaving)

[07:41] <CarolTLP> dancing is actually better exersize than sex.

[07:41] <CarolTLP> Sex is a lot like chasing a todler around. More just exhasting than good exersize.

[07:42] <SteveS> <g>

[07:42] <SteveS> Dancing sounds pretty good. I should get out and try that some time.

[07:43] <CarolTLP> Hard to dance not drunk!

[07:43] <SteveS> "Physical education" in school mostly taught me that exercise goes hand in hand with bullying and humiliation.

[07:43] <CarolTLP> That is basically my experience.

[07:44] <CarolTLP> When I was good at something, it wasn't ever something that was practiccal to continue.

[07:44] <CarolTLP> I was really good at archery, better than the aids, but we only did that one week, and the aids couldn't beleive that I was better than THEM.

[07:45] <SteveS> I never really found anything I liked to do.

[07:46] <CarolTLP> I've gone back to yoga several times over the last twenty something years. And martial arts took me ALL this time to find. I've had an epiphany, and MArital Arts ROCKS!

[07:46] <CarolTLP> I do about 5 hours of Yoga, and three hours of martial arts every week.

[07:47] <SteveS> Cool.

[07:47] <SteveS> About the only regular exercise I get these days is walking around the apartment complex.

[07:47] <CarolTLP> Through this month, I get an extra hour of Martial arts in, due to preparing for world tournament.

[07:48] <CarolTLP> I pulled a muscle in yoga Friday, and my leg hurts a little. Not enough to keep my from my martial arts tournament classes though!

[07:49] <CarolTLP> Keep trying different forms of exersize till you find one that works.

[07:49] <SteveS> You're that motivated? Cool.

[07:49] <CarolTLP> Where are you, Steve? Atlanta?

[07:49] <SteveS> Huntsville, in north Alabama.

[07:50] *** django_go is now known as Django

[07:50] <Django> back

[07:50] <SteveS> Welcome back!

[07:50] <Django> ty!

[07:51] <CarolTLP> There are two Kuk Sool Won Dojangs in Montgomenty, but none in Huntsville. http://www.kuksoolwonmontgomery.homestead.com/

[07:51] <SteveS> Montgomery's about 3 hours away.

[07:51] <Django> <sigh> I need to get back into kickboxing

[07:51] <CarolTLP> That would be a long ways to go to exersize.

[07:51] <SteveS> Definitely.

[07:52] <CarolTLP> While I'm a big Kuk Sool fan, surely tehre are other martial arts schools, and it would be too arrogant of me to think that other schools aren't good too.

[07:52] <Django> lau gar kung fu is good, if you can find it

[07:52] <SteveS> Yeah. I may look around and see what's here.

[07:53] <CarolTLP> I'm still shocked that I love it so much!

[07:53] <Django> and I used to love jujitsu

[07:53] <CarolTLP> is Tuskegee very far away?

[07:53] <SteveS> I think it's in the southern half of the state

[07:55] <CarolTLP> The school master who owns the above school studied in Tuskegee, but I dont' find an "authorized" school there now.

[07:57] * SteveS nods

[07:58] <CarolTLP> Many people seem to try several different martial arts before they pick one they want to stay with.

[07:59] <CarolTLP> I feel that I lucked onto the best one, first try! My school masters are 8th degree!

[08:00] <SteveS> I was going to look up where Tuskegee is, in my atlas, but I can't find the book. I don't know where it ran off to.

[08:00] <CarolTLP> Could look on an on-line mapping service.

[08:01] <SteveS> I just found the book, but no Tuskegee. I'll check online next.

[08:02] <CarolTLP> Must be a small place!

[08:05] <SteveS> It's about 30 or 40 miles east of Montgomery.

[08:05] <CarolTLP> So the student didn't go far from the master.

[08:06] *** Kren_away is now known as Krenon

[08:06] <Krenon> back

[08:06] <Django> wb krenon

[08:06] <SteveS> D'oh!

[08:06] <SteveS> It *was* in the atlas. I just misread the index.

[08:07] <CarolTLP> Hello, Ted.

[08:07] <Krenon> Hi

[08:07] <CarolTLP> I'm trying to convince Steve and Django that Kuk SOol rocks!

[08:08] <Django> lol

[08:08] <SteveS> Population ~13,000, as of 1980 census

[08:08] <Krenon> Well it sure seems to for you anyway.

[08:08] <Django> does anyone want a laugh?

[08:08] <CarolTLP> sure!

[08:08] <SteveS> Who doesn't?

[08:08] <CarolTLP> scrooge?

[08:09] <SteveS> I'm sure he likes *cheap* laughs.

[08:09] <SteveS> :-)

[08:09] <Django> https://sanctum.homelinux.org/cam/output.avi

[08:09] * Django has been pratting around with linux again

[08:09] <SteveS> Downloading now.

[08:10] <Django> ooh i need to recompress it :(

[08:10] <Django> just noticed - 7mb

[08:10] <Krenon> I'll look when I'm not eating breakfast

[08:10] <Django> np

[08:10] <CarolTLP> muffins?

[08:11] <Krenon> Two oranges and a Vegemite muffin

[08:11] <CarolTLP> Peter has been messing with Linux again, sadly.

[08:11] <Django> sadly?

[08:11] <CarolTLP> He broke his computer.

[08:11] <Django> ahh

[08:12] <Django> yes, it's not too forgiving

[08:12] <SteveS> D'oh!

[08:12] <CarolTLP> Peter says he tried to install a kernal patch

[08:12] <CarolTLP> and then re-installed something.

[08:12] <SteveS> Ah. That does sound dangerous.

[08:12] <CarolTLP> Hasn't been getting his email for DAYS.

[08:13] <CarolTLP> Don't know if email is working right, but he sent me a test message.

[08:13] <SteveS> I finished downloading, but Win Media Player doesn't recognize the codec.

[08:13] <Django> www.divx.com - you need the codec

[08:13] <Django> sorry

[08:13] <SteveS> How new a Divx format is it? I thought I had Divx installed.

[08:14] <Krenon> He left larryniven-l.org without a murmur hee hee

[08:14] <CarolTLP> I've got 2% DLed. I don't think I'll continue if I need to install a program to look at it. WHat is so funny?

[08:14] <CarolTLP> LOL

[08:14] <CarolTLP> 3%

[08:14] <Django> i updated the encoder last week, so it's possible a codec from last week

[08:15] <CarolTLP> "updated (tech) possible (tech) " I didn't understand much of that.

[08:15] <Django> i have an application which compiles images from my webcam into a timelapse video

[08:16] <Django> the codec is the compression algorithm used to save space

[08:16] <CarolTLP> So, this is a video?

[08:16] <Django> yup

[08:17] <Krenon> The .avi on the end says so, Carol

[08:17] <CarolTLP> Oh.

[08:18] <SteveS> DivX is one of the better ones, with pretty good picture quality in a really small file.

[08:19] <CarolTLP> Okay, so what is the vedeo about? It doen'st play on .... Real player?

[08:19] <Krenon> Windows Media player.

[08:20] <Django> it's a time lapse video - just something I'm mwessing around with - nothing serious/important

[08:23] <Django> i play with tech all the time - mainly because, at some point, people want me to set this sort of rubbish up for them...

[08:24] <SteveS> That's pretty cool.

[08:24] <Django> not bad for a $15 webcam and free software

[08:25] <Krenon> Ahh... That's better.

[08:25] <CarolTLP> I'm still at 17%!

[08:25] <Django> i'm just trying to get my mind around a vegemite muffin

[08:26] <Krenon> You'd probably prefer getting your mind around it to getting your mouth around it.

[08:26] <Django> yeah - it's a bigger file than I thought

[08:26] <Django> sorry carol

[08:26] <Krenon> Don't you know you have to be an Australian to like Vegemite. Unless you're Carol, that is.

[08:26] <CarolTLP> That's what I get for using dial up, I guess.

[08:26] <CarolTLP> :-)

[08:26] <SteveS> I'm completely spoiled by cable.

[08:27] <SteveS> :-)

[08:27] <CarolTLP> Surely there are others, sicne it is available here.

[08:27] <Django> hey - i like vegemite - i was trying to consider how one would go about makin them

[08:27] <Django> it's almost as good as marmite ;)

[08:27] <Krenon> Ah. Well basically I just mix self raising flour, bran, water and vegemite and microwave for 8 minutes.

[08:27] <Django> cheat!!

[08:28] * Django writes note to self

[08:28] <Krenon> Cheat? Why?

[08:28] <Django> microwave

[08:28] <CarolTLP> Look at it this way, food needs salt. MAybe the vegemite just takes the place of salt.

[08:28] <Krenon> It is salty I'll admit.

[08:28] <Django> lol

[08:29] <Krenon> OK. Steam for 8 minutes. That's what microwaving does to it.

[08:29] <Django> i'm just wondering how badly my wife will injure me if I attempt vegemite muffins

[08:29] <Krenon> I don't see why making them should affect anyone else.

[08:29] <Krenon> My wife won't touch them but she regards them as harmless.

[08:30] <Django> my wife is an (ex) professional baker/confectioner... I am not allowed to try baking without her guidance ;)

[08:30] <SteveS> :-)

[08:30] <Django> i don't understand what the problem is... I only set fire to the kitchen once...

[08:30] <SteveS> <g>

[08:30] <Django> ;)

[08:31] <CarolTLP> LOL. I've done that twice. I"m tied with my son!

[08:31] <Krenon> I first mix the vegemite thoroughly with the water.

[08:31] <Django> then there was the time i made 'beer can chicken'

[08:32] <CarolTLP> They probably need some pecan crumb on top.

[08:32] <Django> but I bought a new bbq, so all is well

[08:33] <SteveS> The worst cooking disaster I've had is tomato sauce exploding all over the oven.

[08:33] <Django> krenon - does this seem reasonable? http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/vegemite/recipe.html

[08:33] <CarolTLP> How did that happen? Didn't keep stirring it,a nd it was too thick?

[08:34] <Krenon> Just a sec..

[08:34] <SteveS> Yeah, I left it simmering, and didn't check on it for too long.

[08:35] <SteveS> So it got too hot, and started popping sauce all over.

[08:35] <Django> ouch

[08:35] <Krenon> Yes, but I think there are too many ingredients that you would never taste.

[08:36] <Krenon> I go for extreme simplicity in recipes.

[08:36] <Django> hrm

[08:36] <CarolTLP> "extra tasty cheese, grated"??? :-) I'm assuming any cheese would work, from extra sharp cheddar to <gasp> American process.

[08:37] <Krenon> Also it has fat in it. I am trying to avoid fat.

[08:37] <CarolTLP> Looks to me like all the ingredients would contribute. But what is green capsicum?

[08:37] <Django> <shudder> american cheese

[08:37] <Krenon> Mix cheese and Vegemite and you don't taste the cheese much.

[08:38] <Krenon> You might like to know, btw, that it was about 12 months ago that Carol first tasted Vegemite. I gave her some. She spread it thick, which is never recommended for first time eaters, and she liked it.

[08:38] <CarolTLP> THAT is why it must be "Extra tasty!"

[08:38] <CarolTLP> I'm weird though. Everyone knows that.

[08:38] <Django> ROFL

[08:38] <SteveS> :-)

[08:39] <Django> right - i have to dash

[08:39] <Krenon> -

[08:39] <CarolTLP> Nice to see you django.

[08:39] <Krenon> Bye Django

[08:39] <Django> see ya on the list, folks!! ttfn ;)

[08:39] <CarolTLP> at 33%......

[08:39] <CarolTLP> bye!

[08:39] *** Django has quit IRC (Client exiting)

[08:43] <CarolTLP> My Pagan group is working on a Texas Gulf Coast Wheel of the year. We discovered that, surprise, summer is the fallow period here. It is too hot for food to grow. The harvest season STARTS in September, and continues through till March.

[08:44] <SteveS> Huh. Even with Houston's weather, I'm amazed harvest goes right through winter.

[08:44] <CarolTLP> That pumpkin soup recipie has the vegetables pureed, so canned pumpkin should work.

[08:45] <CarolTLP> We went to a local farm, and picked up their list of what they grow, and the months that it is in season. The cucumbers havne't com in yet. Still too hot.

[08:46] <Krenon> I've messed around with pumpkin soup, because it's much cheaper to buy a pumpkin whole than to buy cut pieces, but pumpkin won't keep.

[08:46] <CarolTLP> So, October isn't a good time to celebrate the time of death. Also, there is no season of the hunter. Hunting and slaughtering of animals goes on right through the year. We dont' know about the fish market yet.

[08:46] *** Harry_Red has joined #knownspace

[08:46] <Harry_Red> Hi all.

[08:47] <SteveS> Welcome back, Frank!

[08:47] <Krenon> Hi Frank

[08:47] <Harry_Red> I can't stay long, but thought I'd check in while sending in the latest SETI dump.

[08:47] <CarolTLP> Feeling better? Get a rest?

[08:48] <Harry_Red> Some rest, now my eyes are clearing after the eyedrops.

[08:48] <CarolTLP> I'm looking at pictures of a Kuk Sool demonstration in Alabama: SWORDS! http://www.kuksoolwonmontgomery.homestead.com/files/JKN_Das-JKN_Steve_Inverted_Sword.JPG

[08:49] <CarolTLP> canned pumpkin is still very cheap.

[08:49] <Harry_Red> At the bottom line Carol, whatevcer works, works.

[08:50] <CarolTLP> in pumpkin? Yes.

[08:50] <Harry_Red> In fighting.

[08:50] <CarolTLP> Btw, Ted. Keegan took a Queensland Blue pumpkin seed to school wehn they were studying plants, recently. I suspect the teacher was VERY impressed with getting such an unusual seed!

[08:51] <CarolTLP> Ah. Redd, did you hear my brag that I got a point on a black belt last night in my first sparring lesson?

[08:51] <Harry_Red> Yes and my comment was that often you learn more from losing than winning.

[08:51] <CarolTLP> Oh, yes.

[08:52] <CarolTLP> Well, I lost a lot!

[08:52] <Harry_Red> Is there more than just that picture?

[08:52] <CarolTLP> I also LOST three points to her!

[08:52] <Krenon> Sorry. I missed that about Keegan until Now.

[08:52] <CarolTLP> http://www.kuksoolwonmontgomery.homestead.com/PhotoAlbum.html

[08:52] <Krenon> I thought the seeds were similar.

[08:53] <CarolTLP> THe commonoragne pumkin tends to have smaller flatter seeds.

[08:53] <CarolTLP> They were making a chart with different kinds of seeds.

[08:54] <CarolTLP> Hmm. Maybe I will make some pumkin custard, as in, no pie shell.

[08:55] <Harry_Red> A person got a Special mention at the MIT egg drop by using the MAPLE SEED heliocopter stratigy. Where you attach a vein to the egg and it gently spinns it's way to earth.

[08:55] <SteveS> Pretty smart.

[08:55] <Krenon> Pumpkin scones are good.

[08:55] <SteveS> A Roton egg.

[08:56] <CarolTLP> scones are too dry!

[08:57] <Harry_Red> I like scones for Eggs Bennidict. They absorbe the juicy stuff.

[08:57] <SteveS> I bet a dry scone would pass a drop test better than an egg would. :-)

[08:57] <CarolTLP> http://www.kuksoolwonmontgomery.homestead.com/KSWHistory.html says taht Tae Kwon Do is an Olympic sport.

[08:57] <Harry_Red> Getting ideas about competing on that level Carol?

[08:57] <CarolTLP> That would make then taste better, drip egg yolk and and butter all over them.

[08:58] <Harry_Red> And Hollindase sauce.

[08:58] <CarolTLP> I'm only a yellow belt. I can only compeat at yellow belt level, although they reserve teh right to mix events if enough people don't show up.

[08:59] <CarolTLP> I'm there to sweat. If I get a black belt while I'm doing that, so be it! I'll keep going as much as they will let me. Wehn I get brown belt, if, they will let me start assisting in classes.

[08:59] <Harry_Red> As in most things you learn more by teaching than as a simple student.

[09:00] <CarolTLP> They SAY Dohn Bo Nim, two brown stripes, but lots of brown belts help out.

[09:01] <CarolTLP> I've found that to be true, but in this case, I think that it is just that they school master wants more people to help teach class so that more people get more attention, and he doesn't have to pay them to teach.

[09:01] <Harry_Red> It works both wqays Carol.

[09:02] <Harry_Red> Ok, I've got stuff to do as Peg reminded me. Gotta go.

[09:02] <Harry_Red> Adios all.

[09:02] <Krenon> Catch you later, Frank.

[09:03] <Harry_Red> -GONE+++

[09:03] <CarolTLP> Five Commandments of the HwaRang warriors http://www.korea.army.mil/pao/hwarang1/hwarang.htm

[09:03] <SteveS> Bye, Frank!

[09:03] <CarolTLP> bye Redd

[09:03] *** Harry_Red has quit IRC

[09:05] <CarolTLP> Okay, once again, someone leaves and we get quite. I recognise a patten!

[09:06] <SteveS> I've been reading a compule of sites about music downoading: http://janisian.com/article-internet_debacle.html and http://janisian.com/article-fallout.html

[09:06] <Krenon> bi5

[09:09] <CarolTLP> I'm sensitive to the "Costing you money" arguemnet. It isnt' costing ME any money! How could they say that?

[09:10] <CarolTLP> Maybe I should say I am IN-sensitive to that one.....

[09:10] <CarolTLP> the musi industry needs to USE Dling music. Allow some, say buy the record for more. Or something.

[09:11] <SteveS> They didn't want to, from the beginning.

[09:12] <SteveS> They hoped that the internet would go away, so they wouldn't have to think, and try to figure out how to make money there.

[09:12] <Krenon> back

[09:12] <CarolTLP> Hello Ted.

[09:12] <SteveS> Besides, the internet was scary, because they would have to give up their iron control on music to do it.

[09:12] <Krenon> Just got coffee and another orange.

[09:14] <Krenon> Who is the owner of illusionary.com?

[09:14] <CarolTLP> Janis Ian and Mercedes Lackey sure are fans of free DLs, but esp in Lackeys case, SHE put some up, and it wheted people's appetite. THat is a LOT different than people scan a person's entire work and uplaod it for people to DL free.

[09:14] <CarolTLP> "Costing you money" they meant Janis Ian, not me as a consummer. Ok.

[09:16] <SteveS> There needs to be a fair way for those sorts of things to be decided, and a fair way for the artists to be paid if people *do* upload the artist's entire work.

[09:16] <CarolTLP> Yes.

[09:17] <CarolTLP> I don't care if fewer books are printed, but I care if the artist doesn't get paid.

[09:18] <SteveS> The music industry's thinking is to just crush new technology, instead of trying to use it for their own benefit.

[09:18] <CarolTLP> I think this is a lot like the oil companies not wanting alternative fuels research, as that would cut into THEIR profits. If people are DLing work, even if they are paying the artist, the stores and publishing houses arent' getting paid.

[09:18] <CarolTLP> Steve, you remember who Django is?

[09:18] <SteveS> Yup. The big music companies are right to be afraid of it, because it's likely to decrease their monopoly.

[09:19] <SteveS> I can look up some of his emails, and see if he gives a name besides Django Shagnasty.

[09:20] <SteveS> Nope, he doesn't.

[09:20] <CarolTLP> I shoulld be able to remember people's names.

[09:22] <CarolTLP> Why would record companies be against listening booths?

[09:23] <CarolTLP> Seems to me taht I am MORE likely to buy a CD if I know what is on it.

[09:23] <SteveS> Why pay money for music if you can go to the store and listen for free?

[09:23] <Krenon> Because you can listen in the comfort of your home.

[09:23] <SteveS> They've never been terribly bright.

[09:23] <Krenon> I believe you!

[09:24] <Krenon> Thing is: I usually have some idea of what the cd I want sounds like because the music has been around a long time.

[09:25] <CarolTLP> I want to STAND there and listen for hour after hour? No, I want to go home and listen to something I like in the TUB or something like that.

[09:25] <Krenon> Exactly.

[09:25] <SteveS> Every new technology they oppose ends up making them *more* money, but they're too stupid to realize it.

[09:25] <CarolTLP> Django Shagnasty is Neil something.

[09:26] <CarolTLP> He is also (qualish@hotmail.com)

[09:26] <Krenon> Oh

[09:26] <CarolTLP> Neil Pritchard

[09:26] <Krenon> I see. He's in Canada

[09:29] <CarolTLP> WEll, nice talking to you all. I'm going to go shopping. Look for some clothes for Clara for school. WE are borred with her only being able to wear blue dresses, and I think I should be able to come up with some thing else that will follow the dress code.

[09:30] <SteveS> Good luck shopping for better clothes.

[09:30] <CarolTLP> NOw, with me off the computer, Peter can see if he is receiving mail.

[09:30] <SteveS> Bye, Carol!

[09:30] <CarolTLP> ty.

[09:30] <CarolTLP> bye!

[09:31] <Krenon> Bye

[09:33] *** CarolTLP has quit IRC (Ping timeout)

[09:33] *** Redflame has quit IRC (Ping timeout)

[09:46] <SteveS> It's about time for me to head out, too.

[09:46] <SteveS> Bye, Ted!

[09:49] *** SteveS has quit IRC

Session Close: Sunday September 07 10:01:55 2003