Larry Niven was present for this month's chat. His comments are highlighted in bold.
To jump down to Larry's entrance click here.
Session Start: Sat Jan 03 19:31:46 2004
[19:31] <Vash> Hi Vash
[19:31] <monokrom> are you following the mars rover landing?
[19:32] <Vash> hi all
[19:32] <Harry_Red> Yeah, tyto some extent anyway. Hi Vash.
[19:33] <Harry_Red> Still pretty heavly medicated here.
[19:34] <Harry_Red> How's it goin' Vash?
[19:37] <Harry_Red> ?? Is it my mouthwash?
[19:38] <monokrom> medicated? I hope that you're not very ill?
[19:39] <Harry_Red> I started pasing an 8.4 mm Kidney Stone the evening before the end of year Chat. It's had me screwed up for the last week.
[19:39] <monokrom> :x woah
[19:39] <Harry_Red> They busted it up with a sound hammer, but everything still hurts. Atleast I'm not still peeing blood.
[19:40] <Harry_Red> Yeah .36 cal is pretty big. Just the size to cause much trouble.
[19:40] <monokrom> sorry man, hope that you feel good as new soon
[19:41] <Vash> No. Lol. It's not your mouthwash Frank, I was just reading Storm Front
[19:41] <Harry_Red> My woahs are old newes to the room Mono. It always seems to be something going wrong.
[19:41] <Vash> reading back... ouch Frank. That sounds painful.
[19:41] <Harry_Red> Vash, did you see the news about VOYAGER I in Science News weekly?
[19:42] <Harry_Red> Yeah Vash. I found out something. Pain is additive. I've had to triple my usual dose of Pain killers.
[19:45] <Harry_Red> VOYAGER i link: http://www.sciencenews.org/20040103/bob8.asp
[19:46] <monokrom> i just read that this afternoon myself, prety neat
[19:46] <Harry_Red> yeah neat is the word. and yet another bone of contention between NASA ane the ESA scientists. ;-)
[19:49] <Harry_Red> Mono, you follow SCIENCE NEWS (The weekly edition)?
[19:51] <monokrom> i used to get the print edition when i was much younger, but these days i just settle for skimming the site (mozilla tells me when they've updated) ... i get most of my news through weblogs these days anyway .. not much use for print stuff
[19:51] <monokrom> i used to get science news and the planetary report when i was in highschool :)
[19:52] <Harry_Red> I get the free edition on lin too. However, You might find this site "interesting": http://sciencedaily.com/
[19:52] <monokrom> yeah i love that site :)
[19:53] <monokrom> you might like http://www.eurekalert.org/pubnews.php
[19:53] <Harry_Red> Me too. It keeps me ahead of the game. In some cases, by about 6 months.
[19:53] <monokrom> eurekanews is only doe and nih stuff though
[19:57] <Harry_Red> Yeah, SCIENCE NEWS SAILY is more comprehensive.
[19:58] *** SteveS has joined #knownspace
[19:58] <Vash> Hi SteveS
[19:58] <SteveS> Hi, all!
[19:58] <Vash> Hi Steve
[19:58] <Vash> We're a bit early yet. But the congregation is gathering.
[19:58] <SteveS> Good.
[19:59] <Harry_Red> Hi Steve.
[19:59] <SteveS> I have my Analog. :-)
[19:59] <Harry_Red> Steve, remember that Kline Bottle site addy I posted on the List? larry bought one from them!
[19:59] <Vash> I've just read my ecopy. Well only the story that mattered, anyway
[19:59] <SteveS> :-)
[20:00] <Vash> :-)
[20:00] <SteveS> Cool.
[20:00] <Harry_Red> One of the reasons why Larry keeps me around I guess. /;-)
[20:00] <SteveS> Yup. :-)
[20:01] <Vash> I've not been keeping up with the list traffic much, what Kline bottle?
[20:02] <Harry_Red> Check out this site Vash: http://www.kleinbottle.com/
[20:03] <Harry_Red> Hmmm, that should be KLEIN BOTTLE!
[20:03] <Vash> Acme? Isn't that the dodgy mail order company that sold Wile E Coyote his Rockets? lol
[20:04] <Vash> Weird things.... those bottles
[20:04] *** NickEyour has joined #knownspace
[20:04] <Vash> Hi NickEyour
[20:04] <Harry_Red> Nothing wrong with what they sold him Vash, just that W.E. Coyote didn't follow proper safty procedures with them.
[20:04] <Harry_Red> Hi NickEyour.
[20:04] <SteveS> Klein bottle hat. An idea that never occurred to me... :-)
[20:04] <SteveS> Hi, Nick!
[20:04] <Harry_Red> It's a neet site. If I only had the money...
[20:05] <Harry_Red> http://www.kleinbottle.com/
[20:05] <NickEyour> wups, Hi all, for some reasaon the font wasnt showing up
[20:06] <SteveS> And a Moebius scarf. :-)
[20:06] *** CrazyEddy sets mode: +ooo Vash Harry_Red SteveS
[20:06] <Harry_Red> Yeah. I wonder if a Klein Bottle Mug will show in DRACK TAVERN?
[20:06] <Vash> Thanks Eddy
[20:06] <CrazyEddy> Morning folks.*** Retrieving #knownspace info...
[20:06] <NickEyour> That's Cliff Stoll's site isn't it?
[20:07] <SteveS> Hi Eddy!
[20:07] *** Vash changes topic to 'Storm Front - New Niven in Analog '
[20:07] <NickEyour> Hi Eddy
[20:07] <Harry_Red> Hi Eddie.
[20:07] <CrazyEddy> NP vash.
[20:07] <CrazyEddy> Heya SteveS, Harry.
[20:07] <Harry_Red> You check this site? larry bought one! http://www.kleinbottle.com/
[20:07] <SteveS> Oh, just saw the mug. That's a really cool idea.
[20:08] <NickEyour> I wouldn't dare.Glassware has seems to have a short lifespan in our house :-)
[20:08] <Harry_Red> Not sure. I found it before the 27th Dec. Every thing past the 28th is a fog right now.
[20:08] *** Vash is now known as Vash_AFK
[20:08] <Vash_AFK> Now going to eat Chinese!
[20:09] <NickEyour> Yum!
[20:09] <Harry_Red> The stuff IS tempered Glass. That should last a bit longer.
[20:09] <NickEyour> 4 kids, 2 cats and no room to swing any of 'em??
[20:10] <Harry_Red> No Fair with that Chat title. I haven't read it yet!
[20:11] <NickEyour> Me neither, can't even recall the last time I saw an Analog
[20:11] <Harry_Red> Hmmm, Perhaps you could Swing one from the Celing? Naw bad idea, the kindervolk might think it was a Pinyada.
[20:13] <NickEyour> Possibly ;-) Lightbulbs last similarly short times, even energy efficient ones, something to do with our iffy power supply and the cowboys who rewired the house on the cheap before we moved in I think
[20:13] <Harry_Red> I wonder what a Klein Prism would look like?
[20:13] <Harry_Red> And what kind of defraction it would give.
[20:14] <NickEyour> More to the point, what sort of light could you see with it?
[20:14] <Harry_Red> Most likely a HEAR issue.
[20:14] <NickEyour> What he said
[20:15] <Harry_Red> HEAT, HEAT, HEAT! Changing the fixtures to reduce the amount of heat enclosed can have an amazing effect on bulb life.
[20:15] <SteveS> Like a more open lampshade?
[20:16] <NickEyour> Tried it, no significant improvement, though not so bad this last couple of years
[20:16] <Harry_Red> Truly Nick. That's what I was wondering. Hmmm, Perhaps a Mobius Prism of a crystal other than glass? For X-Ry diffraction?
[20:17] <NickEyour> How about splitting out virtual light to peek into other universes with/
[20:17] <Harry_Red> That would be good. I'd like to see that!
[20:17] <SteveS> Definitely.
[20:18] <NickEyour> Ah, but then you'd need virtual sensitive rods and cones to see it :-(
[20:19] <Harry_Red> Not necessarily. Since a MOBIUS is esscentually a TORUS, it might creat a field in the center you could see, or maybe even travel through.
[20:19] <SteveS> That's what virtual cameras are for. :-)
[20:19] <NickEyour> Ya know, that sort of tickles a memory of a story, something about seeing into a congruent universe and it all beeing *very* odd
[20:20] <NickEyour> Germ of a story there unless it's been done?
[20:20] <Harry_Red> Even if it HAS been done, It can be done differently.
[20:21] <SteveS> Otherwise, at least 50 years of SF couldn't have worked.
[20:21] <Harry_Red> 50? More like 70!
[20:21] <NickEyour> Of course. Everyone still has a bash at time travel stories as Larry has pointed out before (just re-read All the Myriad Ways collection)
[20:22] * SteveS started with 70, then decided to be conservative :-)
[20:22] <NickEyour> :-)
[20:22] <Harry_Red> Truly.
[20:22] <Harry_Red> I liked Beam Pipers take on Time Travel. Lateral to alternate world instead of Linnier.
[20:23] <SteveS> I haven't read those, but that makes sense. In fact, I've heard Crichton's Timeline uses the same idea.
[20:23] <NickEyour> Maybe youd be able to use Klein prism specs to see into the alternate world?
[20:24] <NickEyour> So is Timeline the film as crap as I've heard? The book was OK. quite readable
[20:24] <Harry_Red> You would find some dated, but very good stories in them Vash. APRATIME is the collection of them, leaving out Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen. It's a good read.
[20:25] <Harry_Red> We couldn't find out untill we tried it Nick. (starting to count up my pocket change)
[20:27] <NickEyour> Wonder if you could model it in a sufficiently powerful computer...assuming someone actually worked out the math! (but that is what your brilliant scientist character does ;-)
[20:29] <Harry_Red> Err, not everything works in COmputer modles. There is always the factor of the unforseen. Perhaps effects we know nothing about. We'd just have to build one and see what happens.
[20:29] <NickEyour> Hey, maybe the "virtual reality" story isn't dead yet!
[20:32] <SteveS> :-)
[20:32] <Vash_AFK> Hi fithp
[20:32] <SteveS> Hi, Larry!
[20:32] * SteveS assumes...
[20:32] <NickEyour> In fact, for story purposes, that could actually be the point. Hey, Hi Larry!
[20:32] <Harry_Red> FITHP! We've been discussing possibilities of MOBIUS PRISIMS.
[20:33] <fithp> Mobius prisms? I'd have to see a picture.
[20:34] <SteveS> It might be possible to visualize, but not without a bottle of aspirin. :-)
[20:34] <NickEyour> We're just trying to figure out how to do that :-)
[20:34] <fithp> I gave away two Klein bottles this season. Thanks to whoever sent that link.
[20:34] <Harry_Red> I can almost visualize one. 3 sided Mobius strip. One wonders what would happen if you put various kinds of EM Radiation theroudh it laterally.
[20:35] <Harry_Red> It was I Larry. http://www.kleinbottle.com/
[20:35] <NickEyour> Frank I assume. The klein bottle came up of course
[20:35] <fithp> Thanks, Frank.
[20:35] <Harry_Red> Any time Larry.
[20:37] <Harry_Red> Hmmm, Now I don't have an idea for a gift for THE MAN WWHO HAS EVERYTHING!
[20:40] <fithp> I want wraparound sunglasses that enclose a pair of specs. They used to be everywhere.
[20:40] <fithp> Now I can't find them at all.
[20:40] <SteveS> Gas stations or truck stops, maybe?
[20:41] <fithp> I'll try. Thanks.
[20:41] <Harry_Red> Try a GUNSHOP. As Shooting Glasses. Some Optromists have them too.
[20:41] <NickEyour> Sounds like the sort of thing snowboarders would still wear
[20:43] <NickEyour> They did used to be popular, though not sure they all had room for normal specs underneath
[20:45] <Harry_Red> The ones I've seen at gun Shops do, and ofcourse the Optical shops... BUilt for glasses.
[20:46] <NickEyour> Been having a bit of a clearout. Anyone got a burning need for some 25 year old OMNIs (think I have all the first couple of years bar a couple)
[20:46] <Harry_Red> Put them on E-Bay. You might be pleasently suprized at what you could get for them.
[20:46] <SteveS> My oldest Omnis are less than 20 years old.
[20:47] <NickEyour> Think the gunshop idea sounds most promising. May well try ebay. (1st time though!)
[20:48] <Harry_Red> There are various sites that give tips about useing E-Bay. Check them out first.
[20:49] <NickEyour> Larry, did you ever have anything in Omni? Not in any of the '78, '79 and '80 ones I have as far as I recall
[20:49] <NickEyour> I'll do that Frank
[20:50] <Harry_Red> I have the ORIGINAL OMNI Tee Shirt. The one with the Shuttle on it.
[20:50] <fithp> Sure, I was in OMNI often. They bought some big story--maybe Procrustes--as an insert, with a company to sponsor it.
[20:51] <fithp> OMNI bought the right to "Man of Steel/Woman of Kleenex" then couldn't get the right to illustrate it, so never published.
[20:51] <NickEyour> My copy still has the Rockwell Shuttle Transfer in it unused (though par transfered by time to the opposite page and the plain poaper I put in some years later.
[20:52] <NickEyour> Shame! That could have been interesting. I guess some of the discussion could have made for top shelf material!
[20:53] <SteveS> Yeah, I can see illustrating that essay would be pretty tough.
[20:54] <Harry_Red> I've seen one. Very Funny! All the Sperm that were Giantized by GOld Kryptoniet were wearing capes. /:-)
[20:54] <SteveS> Reminds me of the re-titling of Brin's story "Thor vs. Captain America" to "Life Eaters" in graphic novel form. Marvel would really freak out if they published a GN with the original title!
[20:54] <NickEyour> Yeah. DC might have a few things to say about Superboy playing with himself! :-)
[20:55] * SteveS chuckles
[20:55] <NickEyour> Thats a good story
[20:55] <SteveS> And little chance of seeing mysterious holes in the walls on Smallville. ;-)
[20:56] <NickEyour> They'd be microscopic, but the image of little sperms with capes is an amusing one :-)
[20:56] <SteveS> :-)
[20:56] *** Krenon has joined #knownspace
[20:56] <Vash_AFK> Hi Krenon
[20:56] <Harry_Red> Some stuff slipped through their Censors though. One about Wonder Woman tying up a Villian and remarking that it was one of the games played where she came from... Another about the METAL EATER from the Krypton Zoo eating a particurlarly destructive robot to "ELIMINATE" the problem.
[20:56] <SteveS> Hi, Ted!
[20:56] <Krenon> Hi all
[20:56] <Harry_Red> Hi Ted.
[20:57] <NickEyour> Hi Ted
[20:57] <Krenon> Hi Nick
[20:57] *** Vash_AFK is now known as Vash
[20:57] <NickEyour> HA!
[20:57] <Vash> Back
[20:58] *** Vash sets mode: +o Krenon
[20:58] <Krenon> Hi Vash
[20:58] <Vash> +v for V.I.P.
[20:58] *** Vash sets mode: +v fithp
[20:58] <NickEyour> Nice Chinese?
[20:58] <Krenon> Ta
[20:58] <Vash> Hi Ted
[20:58] <Vash> Hello Larry!
[20:58] <Vash> Yes, it was actually.
[20:58] <fithp> Hello, Vash.
[20:58] <Krenon> Hi Larry
[20:58] <SteveS> I've heard there was a lot of bondage going on in early Wonder Woman.
[20:58] <Vash> I had loads of crispy duck, all to myself
[20:58] <SteveS> All that lariat work...
[20:59] <NickEyour> Yuk yuk yuk ]-)
[20:59] <SteveS> :-)
[20:59] <Harry_Red> Truly. They got a LOT of mileage out of theat.
[20:59] *** Vash is now known as Nesssus
[21:00] <Nesssus> What, Nick, you don't like duck?
[21:00] <Krenon> That's better. The extra head suits you ;-)
[21:00] <NickEyour> Well, the whole superhero thing kind of lends itself to that with the costumes etc
[21:00] <Nesssus> Makes me sound like Zaphod Beeblebrox.
[21:00] <SteveS> Yeah.
[21:00] <Nesssus> So Larry, what's new?
[21:01] <NickEyour> Love it. That was supossed to be a particularly dirty laught WRt teh bondage comments...as if you didn't know
[21:01] *** Redflame has joined #knownspace
[21:01] <Nesssus> Hi Redflame
[21:01] <fithp> Possible collaborations with Brenda Cooper and Greg Benford.
[21:01] <NickEyour> Hey Carol!
[21:01] <Redflame> Larry! Hi!
[21:01] <Harry_Red> Hi Carol!
[21:01] <Redflame> Hello, everyone else!
[21:02] <NickEyour> Oooh! Sounds good!
[21:02] <Redflame> Redd, feeling better?
[21:02] <Nesssus> Amazon have finally posted a release date for RWC. June this year. I also spotted that THE FLYING SORCERERS is going to be re-released in April. That was well overdue.
[21:02] <Nesssus> Hello Carol
[21:02] <fithp> Redflame! Hii!
[21:02] <SteveS> Great news.
[21:02] <Harry_Red> A bit, but Medicated to the gills. I've found out that Pain is additive.
[21:02] <Redflame> Brenda is going in on Wok World?
[21:02] <Nesssus> Wok World?
[21:02] <NickEyour> Excellent! RWC and TFS!
[21:03] <Krenon> Is that a book of Chinese recipes?
[21:03] * Nesssus imagines a Ringworld in the shape of a Wok
[21:03] <NickEyour> Wok the heck is that (sorry)
[21:03] <Nesssus> lol
[21:03] <Harry_Red> Hmmm, Has anyone considered FLYING SORCERS as a GRAFIC NOVEL?
[21:03] *** Nesssus sets mode: +o Redflame
[21:03] <Redflame> The Benford collaboration..... The mega structure.... I thought Larry was just talking about it.
[21:03] <fithp> Yeah, Wok World with Greg Benford. We'll find another name.
[21:03] <Redflame> TY, Nesssus.
[21:03] <Redflame> LOL. Yes, just a nick name!
[21:04] <Harry_Red> DISHWORLD? (Ducking)
[21:04] <fithp> It's half of a Dyson sphere. Not even the first time it's been tried.
[21:04] <Nesssus> Is this anything to do with the fact that I just had Chinese Duck? lol
[21:04] <Redflame> TFS would make a good graphic novel.
[21:04] <NickEyour> Intrigued! What sort of mega structure..if thats not giving away too much?
[21:05] <Krenon> Well with half a Dyson sphere what serves as gravity?
[21:05] <NickEyour> Half a sphere....hmmm....OK could sort of see how that might work. Weird. I love it!
[21:05] <fithp> We're still talking. Details are currently soft.
[21:05] * Redflame sidles up to monokrom and asks "Race/planet/drink preference?"
[21:06] <CrazyEddy> You could use one of those wok things to make a "torch" that focuses the light on parts of the ringworld. More effective use of available resources.
[21:06] <Krenon> Haven't got around to sorting out gravity yet?
[21:07] <fithp> Gravity is spin...and I should stop giving details NOW.
[21:07] <Krenon> That'll do
[21:07] <NickEyour> Bowl Of Heaven?
[21:07] <SteveS> Egg Cup World? :-)
[21:07] <fithp> Nick, good suggestion.
[21:07] <Redflame> Then I shouldn't add anything that I might have heard?
[21:07] <CrazyEddy> Instead of the shadow things for day and night.
[21:07] <NickEyour> Would have to be spin I guess. OK. 'nuff said.
[21:07] <Redflame> Is Nesssus and I the only oens besides Larry who has read the story mentioned in the topic?
[21:08] <Nesssus> Steve's got it
[21:08] <SteveS> I've read it.
[21:08] <Redflame> Steve, you could read it quickly and get back to us..... oh good.
[21:08] <Krenon> Don't worry guys. When Greg comes to Australia in a few months we'll get him drunk and have the truth out of him :-)
[21:08] <fithp> Redflame, yes, don't offer details, please.
[21:08] <NickEyour> <shame> nope
[21:09] <NickEyour> Good plan Ted!
[21:09] <Krenon> He is GoH at our Narcon in late April.
[21:09] <Redflame> OK. Mum's the word. So, Larry, we were wondering why "Storm Front" got published. We thought you were savign new Draco Tavern stories.
[21:09] <Krenon> Natcon
[21:09] <Nesssus> I was thinking that those projection screens on the roof of the Draco Tavern described in Storm Front, could be linked to the Internet of the future, al la Minority Report's newspapers
[21:09] <Krenon> " Conflux" - Canberra 23-26 April. I'm paid up, booked in.
[21:09] <Redflame> By late April, maybe Gregory will have a rough draft or detailed outline, so you could actually get some good details out of him.
[21:09] <NickEyour> I shall have to find somewhere that does Analog.Nesssus, where do you buy yours?
[21:10] <Nesssus> Fictionwise.com
[21:10] <NickEyour> Ah. Thanks
[21:10] <Nesssus> I get the Emagazine version.
[21:10] <Nesssus> I've never seen it in any branch of WH Smiths.
[21:10] <fithp> Thirty odd years ago--really odd--there was a story in APA-L: "Cupworld". Half of a Dyson sphere. Day and night provided by shadows of giant orbitting tea bags. Spaceport in the handle.
[21:10] <Harry_Red> Ask them to get it NESSUS.
[21:11] <Redflame> I used to have to drive into the museum district, to the only magazine stand that carried Analog, till I finally gave up and subscribed at a world con.
[21:11] *** PiWi has joined #knownspace
[21:11] <Nesssus> Hi PiWi
[21:11] <Redflame> Hello, PiWi.
[21:11] <SteveS> "My cup runneth over" inspires mass panic!
[21:11] <PiWi> Hi everybody
[21:11] <Nesssus> WH Smith are a bit useless in that respect. You ask about ordering magazines and they just look at you blankly
[21:11] <SteveS> \Hi, PiWi.
[21:11] <NickEyour> I think I last saw it in one of the bookshops in Oxford, but I don't work there anymore.
[21:11] <Harry_Red> Hi PiWi
[21:12] <NickEyour> Smiths have really gone downhill
[21:12] <fithp> Hello, PiWi.
[21:12] <NickEyour> Hi PiWi
[21:12] <Krenon> Anyone realise it's JRR Tolkien's birthday today?
[21:12] <Harry_Red> Truly!
[21:12] <Krenon> Yes. He's 112.
[21:13] <PiWi> I am Nesssus'friend from the Netherlands, it' been a while
[21:13] <Harry_Red> One wonders what he would have thought of the Movie(s).
[21:13] <Krenon> Born 3 January 1892.
[21:13] <NickEyour> We do now. Saw ROTK yesterday. Bloody marvelous. Welling up all over the place I was!
[21:13] <SteveS> Welcome, PiWi!
[21:13] <SteveS> Yup, an excellent movie.
[21:13] <PiWi> JRR is eleventy-2 today?
[21:13] <Redflame> So close to the release date of RotK. I guess Oscar eligibility influenced the release date. Too bad they couldn't wait till a real auspicious date like his birthday to release the film. All of them actually.
[21:13] <NickEyour> Probably would have hated them, but I think they do the story justice
[21:13] <PiWi> Saw RotK last week - was a bit disappointed
[21:14] <Harry_Red> Yeah, I saw itlast month. I missed THE CLEANING OF THE SHIRE though.
[21:14] <Krenon> That's right. Last year we celebrated his eleventy first.
[21:14] <PiWi> Too many hiccups in the story]
[21:14] <Nesssus> Ted, I remember you posting to me last year about JRRT's 11th11th birthday
[21:14] <Krenon> scouring
[21:14] <SteveS> I hope the movie actually gets some real Oscar niminations.
[21:14] <PiWi> Harry, what do you mean you missed the cleaning of the shire? You mean it being depicted in the movie?
[21:14] <Harry_Red> Jackson might be up for Best DIrector.
[21:15] <Nesssus> Jackson deserves Best Director.
[21:15] <NickEyour> Yeah. Lots missing but what was there hung together well and was handled brilliantly
[21:15] <NickEyour> Agreed
[21:15] <Nesssus> If he doesn't get it, it's proof of the way the Oscar voting is mishandled.
[21:15] <SteveS> I would have liked to see that part of the movie, too. Oh well. Hard to complain when the rest of the movie was so good.
[21:15] <PiWi> I read in a movie magazine that he did 5 shoots of Sarumans death - and none of them was in the film!!
[21:15] <Harry_Red> Truly. Not to mention his extrordinary use of effects.
[21:15] <Krenon> On http://members.optushome.com.au/aussff/Tol_Harndor.html you'll see a pic of four people toasting JRRT's 111th.
[21:15] <PiWi> Did any of you got the special empire edition
[21:16] <NickEyour> Never been in a cinema packed to the gills that was so quiet in rapt attention
[21:16] <Nesssus> I missed it! I looked for it after Christmas, but the next issue was already out
[21:16] <Nesssus> Yes. ROTK was quiet. It was very full too.
[21:16] <NickEyour> Wait for the DVD! Can see why Chris Lee was a bit peed off though
[21:16] *** CarolTLP has joined #knownspace
[21:16] <Nesssus> Hi CarolTLP
[21:16] <Redflame> Larry, we thought you were saving up new Draco Tavern stories for the release of the compilation. So, we were wondering why "Storm Front" got published?
[21:16] <PiWi> Maybe you can backorder it? Or I will look out for it here - we are late
[21:17] <Redflame> Nesssus, that must be a script you have set up.
[21:17] <Nesssus> The current one has The Last Samurai on the cover
[21:17] <Nesssus> Yes, Carol it is.
[21:17] <Harry_Red> Hi CarolT
[21:17] <Nesssus> Maybe we can do a swap for XS Gold? lol
[21:17] <PiWi> Chris Lee wasn' peed off! His fans were. See the Jackson interview, ask Nesssus for the link
[21:17] <CarolTLP> I just like chatting from Trillian better.
[21:18] <PiWi> Okay, I'l check the shop for you tomorrow!
[21:18] <fithp> Once again...I gave the collection two unpublished. "Storm Front" was in Analog's hands earlier than that.
[21:18] <Krenon> But the last scene in the book that involved Saruman was not one that exactly shows up Saruman in a good light. He gets killed rather ignominiously.
[21:18] <NickEyour> Ah, well just goes to show you shouldn't believe everything you hear
[21:18] <Harry_Red> BRB Bio Break.
[21:18] <Nesssus> How long do Analog take to publish stories anyway?
[21:19] <PiWi> I wonder - LotR was supposed to be unfilmable - and now it is done. Do you think there is a LN book that should be made into a movie
[21:19] <CarolTLP> Well, analog sure is slow then, right? So, we still have tow new ones to look forward to. Great!
[21:19] <fithp> Bio break for me too: I'm hungry.
[21:19] <NickEyour> Oh yus!
[21:19] <Krenon> OK. I'm off to make some tea.
[21:20] *** Krenon is now known as Kren_tea
[21:20] <CarolTLP> I made a big brunch before I got onto the computer. MAke sure EVERYONE was full!
[21:20] <NickEyour> Gotta get a beer, Anyone else? (who is in teh evening anyway ;-)
[21:20] <Nesssus> Piwi, the movie rights to Ringworld were purchased decades ago. But.... I won't use any bad names ... the person who bought them is sitting on them till hell freezes over it seems.
[21:20] <CarolTLP> GOt an NA?
[21:20] <PiWi> Ah, that' s toooo bad... would love to see the Kzin in the flesh
[21:21] <Nesssus> Not to mention a CGI puppeteer.
[21:21] <PiWi> Oh yes!!
[21:21] <SteveS> Definitely!
[21:21] <CarolTLP> PiWi, we all want good Niven on the silver screen. WE all want RW. Personally, I think INTERGRAL TREES & SMOKE RINGS would be great.
[21:21] <NickEyour> Yep, they could do that really well now.Amazing isn;'t it
[21:22] <PiWi> Well, about RW on the silver screen - with book fans, there' s always the chance of being disappointed...
[21:23] <CarolTLP> Yes, and there are plenty of dissapointed Tolkien fans. Am I the only person who doesn't think Liv is beautiful? I think they did lousy on her hair, costumes....
[21:23] <Nesssus> Have a look at http://www.larryniven.org/kzin/kitty_gallery.htm - Hal Colebatch, one of the Man Kzin War authors sent in a picture he took in a perth pub of a Tiger Skin (one of his stories tells about a kzinti stranded on earth in India in the 1900s who got turned into a throw rug).
[21:23] <PiWi> I would really want the scientist to hurry up and invent stepping stones and a tasp, thoug!
[21:23] <NickEyour> Of course, but with the right director, even the "unfilmable" can be done well
[21:23] <Nesssus> There's also a picture of Teresa Tannahill + her cat Dudley on that page that I uploaded today.
[21:24] <CarolTLP> tasp, I could use that..... Talk about anti-depressants!
[21:24] <PiWi> Just looked at the link, nesssus and it´ s wonderful!
[21:24] <NickEyour> Oh! Shall have to check that
[21:24] <Harry_Red> You mean ther's BAD Nicen Carol?
[21:25] <CarolTLP> Nesssus, I don't see Hal's pic. Have you not done that?
[21:25] <CarolTLP> Redd?
[21:25] <Nesssus> Refresh the page.
[21:25] <Nesssus> I thought I'd uploaded it, but forgot to. It's there now
[21:25] <Harry_Red> I didn't think she was Beautiful. STRIKING yes, Somewhat exotic? Yes! But not Beauty.
[21:25] <SteveS> Cool pic.
[21:25] <CarolTLP> exotic, yes.
[21:26] <Nesssus> Piwi, Cheryl's too kittens are there too.
[21:26] <Nesssus> too = two
[21:26] <NickEyour> We had a lovely ginger Tom years ago who adopted us.Not too kzinlike though!
[21:27] <PiWi> Ah, see them all now.
[21:27] <PiWi> Larry still there=
[21:27] <PiWi> mean there?
[21:27] <Nesssus> He's gone for a "bio break"
[21:27] <Harry_Red> http://www.comics.com/comics/roseisrose/archive/images/roseisrose2030497031230.gif
[21:27] <fithp> I'm back.
[21:27] <Nesssus> Food, I think. It's early afternoon in California
[21:27] <CarolTLP> Nice page, Nesssus.
[21:27] *** Kren_tea is now known as Krenon
[21:28] <Krenon> Back
[21:28] <PiWi> Because I wonder if he 'invented' Kzin because he has a ginger cat himself?
[21:28] <Harry_Red> Could you post that page URL again Nessus/Krenon?
[21:28] <Nesssus> No, the cat's in Larry's stories are far too docile to be ginger.... (i.e. Cat tails sleeping up your back)
[21:28] <Nesssus> http://www.larryniven.org/kzin/kitty_gallery.htm
[21:28] <fithp> I've had many cats, but the Kzinti came first.
[21:29] <NickEyour> Nice pics! Actually we had 2 gingers, but the second one wasn't so nice and moved out of his own accord (we'd taken him as a favour,so not too disappointed) our current 2 kittens are just starting to bring home prey, the little scamps!
[21:29] <Harry_Red> http://www.comics.com/comics/roseisrose/archive/images/roseisrose2002033131231.gif
[21:29] <PiWi> Loved Ringworld. Loved the idea of stepping stones and tasps.
[21:29] <NickEyour> LOL Frank!
[21:29] <Harry_Red> STEPPING DISKS!
[21:29] <PiWi> You know why they bring home prey?
[21:30] <PiWi> They find you pathetic, but love you anyway, and since you can't hunt for yourself...
[21:30] <CarolTLP> I understand they are love offerings.
[21:30] <Nesssus> My cats would rather sleep in the rabbit's hutches with them then hunt them. I guess Bugs really hasn't got the Kzinti killing instinct in him
[21:30] <PiWi> Sorry Harry. Read it in Dutch, didn' know the correct translation :-)
[21:30] <CarolTLP> Redd! Freudian? LOL
[21:30] <NickEyour> Joy wouldn't let me call the tabby Chmeee :-(
[21:31] <PiWi> I loved that pic with Tom in the rabbits hutch. He looked so posh
[21:31] <CarolTLP> (slowly waking up as to who is saying what) PiWi, you are Dutch?
[21:31] <Krenon> How do you pronounce Chmeee?
[21:31] <Krenon> Same as Chmee?
[21:31] <PiWi> Yes, carol, I am
[21:31] <PiWi> Is that a disadvantage?
[21:31] <Nesssus> I should have taken another picture a few days later. He was back in there, and jasmine was in the other hutch ....
[21:31] <PiWi> And the rabbits were?
[21:32] <Nesssus> in the hutches too. One in each one with each cat!
[21:32] <CarolTLP> I wonder how many other words are difficult ot translate. Many, I'd guess. I just got a copy of "Green Eggs and Ham" in Latin. From what little I can follow, the story, while retaining the flavor, is quite a bit different.
[21:32] <Krenon> Flavor?
[21:32] <NickEyour> Not the same as Artemis, which is what he wound up with. Along with Butler, who looks like he has a tux (from the Artemis Fowel books by Eoin Colfer)
[21:32] <fithp> Maybe I should have called them "stepping stones".
[21:33] <CarolTLP> PiWi, dissadvantage, no. Actually makes you moreinteresting to talk too, as you must have very interesting perspectives.
[21:33] <Nesssus> or transporter pads?
[21:33] <CarolTLP> I like the disks. Makes them more... exotic. And when I refer to MY stepping stones as stepping disks, people can look at me funny, as if they needed a reasont o think I am weird.
[21:34] <NickEyour> Stepping discs, stones....it's the concept thats fun!
[21:34] <NickEyour> LOL!
[21:34] <Nesssus> like "Wok World".
[21:34] <NickEyour> Bio break
[21:34] <PiWi> lNick, you read Artemis!! Way to go!
[21:35] <Harry_Red> Differing perspectives are always "interesting".
[21:35] <CarolTLP> Ted, flavor of a book, same type or rythm.... certainly not JSUT like the original. But we got laught out of it at the New YEars Eve party I was at.
[21:35] <PiWi> Carol - re interesteing perspectives. Erm, not sure what you mean - perspective on what?
[21:35] <PiWi> I might add: the stance of the dutch governance is not always my opinion!
[21:36] <Harry_Red> Just about everything PiWi. Your world is defined by the language you think in.
[21:36] <PiWi> What do you mean, carol, your stepping stones and people finding you funny?
[21:37] <CarolTLP> Well, just about anything, but since we are HERE because we are all Niven fans, (or, well, Niven himself) your perspectives on Niven's work as a... Dutchman.... or differences on how they read in different languages versus the originals..... Have you read any in English?
[21:37] <Krenon> Ness: When you're on http://www.larryniven.org/kzin/kitty_gallery.htm next: Teresa Tannahil should be Tannahill.
[21:37] <Nesssus> It's a shame that "Storm Front" was written so long ago, as it seemed very topical after last years really bad solar storms and magnetic prominences hit the sun.
[21:37] <PiWi> On LN books read in English: erm, no.
[21:37] <Nesssus> extra "l" - check
[21:38] <PiWi> And I had great trouble following the science in the Integral Trees
[21:39] <Harry_Red> I don't seem to have a NEXT link for the Kitten page.
[21:39] <CarolTLP> The standard english phrase for round garden stones, is "Stepping stones." When mundanes, non-sf-fans, people who havne't read Niven/RW hear me say "Stepping disks" it is close enough to the standard phrase that they know what I mean, but can't really figure out why I said it in such an unusual fashion. Gotta understand, I live in mundania, surrounded by mundanes, and I don't hide in broom closets.
[21:40] *** NickEyour has quit IRC (Ping timeout )
[21:40] <Krenon> If you put a page with real cats on as tribute to kzinti, how about one with llamas and alpacas as a tribute to puppeteers?
[21:40] <PiWi> Are there people having them as pet?
[21:40] <CarolTLP> stepping stones might look like real rocks, like in a pond. a disk is defintitly flat. I think it is a better description.
[21:40] <Nesssus> But, Ted, how many people have a pet llama?
[21:41] <PiWi> Thanks for the explanation Carol!
[21:41] <Krenon> Actually alpacas are better. I agree. Not many, but some people swear by them. They also shear them and spin wool.
[21:41] <SteveS> And who aren't in jail... ;-)
[21:41] <PiWi> ? Steve? Why in jail when you have a pet llama?
[21:42] *** NickEyour has joined #knownspace
[21:42] <Nesssus> Hi NickEyour
[21:42] <Krenon> We have four perfectly circular stones set into our front lawn. If anyone coming to the front door should vanish...
[21:42] <SteveS> Michael Jackson keeps llamas, and he's having legal troubles right now.
[21:42] <NickEyour> Longer than usual before I got chucked off anyway!
[21:42] <PiWi> Krenon: LOL!!!
[21:42] <NickEyour> LOL
[21:42] <PiWi> Steve, thanks for explaining
[21:43] <PiWi> So nick, what did you think of Artemis Fowl?
[21:43] <SteveS> You're welcome.
[21:43] <PiWi> Did you read the latest?
[21:43] <Harry_Red> Jackson might be expecting to be found GUILTY. I suspect he joined NATION OF ISLAM to get "protection" while in Jail.
[21:43] <Krenon> My ever resourceful wife bought them cheap at a garage sale. She didn't say that the seller had two heads, or anything else suspicious.
[21:43] <SteveS> :-)
[21:43] <NickEyour> Liked them. My son devoured them and has re-read them many times.More so than Harry Potter in fact
[21:44] <NickEyour> Theres just the 3 to date isn't there?
[21:44] <CarolTLP> Llamas and alpacas resemble pupeteers less than ginger stripe cats resemble Kzin, I think.
[21:44] <NickEyour> Agreed
[21:44] <Krenon> I suppose all you boreals are cool to cold. Right here it's 8.50 am and the temperature is 26 C
[21:44] <Harry_Red> Does using Llamas as beasts of burden make them ALLPACKAS?
[21:45] <Krenon> ::groan::
[21:45] <PiWi> Nick: yes, 3. The first, the Arctic Incident, and the latest... forgot name
[21:45] <CarolTLP> Ted, having LOTS of stepping disks is a good cover for the ONE that really works!
[21:45] <SteveS> :-)
[21:45] <Nesssus> Right here it's 9:50 pm and the temperature is about 1. Nice to rub in the fact you are enjoying your hemisphere's summer, Ted. Thanks.
[21:45] <Krenon> Yeah. Watch that last step, it's a beauty!
[21:45] <NickEyour> Sorry, this whole Llama debate must have strted while I reconnected. Llamas are bigger than frogs though ;-)
[21:45] <Harry_Red> Just don't mark the one that works with an "X".
[21:45] <Krenon> You're welcome Ness.
[21:45] <CarolTLP> redd, groan!
[21:46] <PiWi> Erm, nick, yes. Llamas bigger than frogs
[21:46] <NickEyour> Bloody freezing here. Tried snowing several times today
[21:46] <PiWi> You got me puzzled here,,
[21:46] <PiWi> Here, pretty cold too.
[21:46] <Nesssus> Larry, what's the current status of the Creation Myth collaboration with Brenda. Does it have a publisher yet?
[21:46] <CarolTLP> I have two rows of them on eitehr side of the driveway to make the driveway larger. So, when I step on the disks, I do transport somewhere else. It just isn't instantaneous.
[21:46] <Harry_Red> Snow on the mountain behind us here in Central AZ.
[21:47] <fithp> Creation Myth doesn't have a publisher yet.
[21:47] <PiWi> No mountain whatsoever... a bit powdery snow on the ground
[21:47] <Krenon> Houston is supposed to reach 25 today.
[21:47] <Krenon> C
[21:47] <PiWi> Larry, Creation Myth is your new book?
[21:47] <Harry_Red> Doen to -3 (F) last night... But then it started to rain.
[21:47] <CarolTLP> 25c would be what f? It is really nice. The windows are open, airing out the house.
[21:47] <NickEyour> Sorry PiWi, that was a bit obscure (Monty Python Live at Drury Lane)
[21:48] <Krenon> -3 F! That's cold.
[21:48] <PiWi> Never mind Nick, love MP but haven' seen that one
[21:48] <Harry_Red> Yeah. Tell me Ted.
[21:48] <fithp> "Creation Myth", written with Brenda Cooper, will probably require polishing after it's got an editor. But it's a finished novel.
[21:49] <CarolTLP> No editor?
[21:49] <NickEyour> Cool, and not just the temperature;-)
[21:49] <fithp> 77 degress F = 25 C.
[21:49] <CarolTLP> Ty, Larry!
[21:49] <Nesssus> How about the Draco Tavern collection. Are you done with those extra two stories? I think during the last chat you came to you were talking about writing an introduction to the entire Draco Tavern series.
[21:49] <CarolTLP> That sounds right. Really nice here in Houston.
[21:49] <PiWi> ? Don't understand why a good book, written by a famous author needs editing??? Won't that change it beyond your recognition?
[21:50] <NickEyour> Looking fwd to that almost as much as RWC!
[21:50] <PiWi> ?RWC
[21:50] <PiWi> Ring World?
[21:50] <fithp> The Draco Tavern collection is ready to publish. I think I've written the Introduction, but I'd best check.
[21:50] <NickEyour> Ringworlds Children
[21:50] <SteveS> Plenty of other famous authors could really use *more* editing.
[21:50] <CarolTLP> Like late Heinlein.
[21:50] <Harry_Red> An editor is needed to keep a work in line with current Conventional standards PiWi
[21:50] <Nesssus> I heard that the Unwin and Allen publishers didn't dare edit the Lord of the Rings, because Tolkien was a professor of english at Oxford.
[21:50] <PiWi> Oh, sounds interesting RWC
[21:51] <CarolTLP> Does a work get an editor AFTER a publisher buys it?
[21:51] <NickEyour> Yup. See Scatterbrain!
[21:51] <Nesssus> Teela had babies.....
[21:51] <Krenon> They dared, but JRRT said a few things about the editing.
[21:51] <CarolTLP> at least one baby.....
[21:51] <Harry_Red> Truly Steve. I haven't seen a S. King book that wouldn't benifit by a cut of about 1/3rd.
[21:51] <PiWi> But Teela went to become... Protector?
[21:51] <NickEyour> Guess we'll find out in June
[21:51] <PiWi> LOL about the JRRT no-editing rule
[21:51] <Nesssus> She had the child(ren) before she turned.
[21:52] <PiWi> Oh.
[21:52] <NickEyour> Ya, but she was fertile with Louis probably
[21:52] <Krenon> Tolkien ordained that "dwarves" was the plural for *his* dwarf characters. They wanted to change it to dwarfs.
[21:52] <Krenon> They also changed "elven" to "elfin". He was furious.
[21:53] <Nesssus> Who is going to publish the Draco Tavern Collection? Tor?
[21:53] <Harry_Red> Her NO BABY Patch ran out I suspect.
[21:53] <PiWi> I wonder about LotR being best in BBC Big read - if it wasn' t already famous, coming out NOW instead of 50 years ago, I bet every critic would call it too lengthy, to few action, to boring?
[21:53] <CarolTLP> CJ CHERRYH used to tell a story abotu how the title of her book "Get of the Unicorn" was changed by a lowly proof reader to "Get off the Unicorn." There was nothing she could do.
[21:53] <NickEyour> Thats what was speculated, makes sense
[21:54] <PiWi> ? Nick, what?
[21:54] <PiWi> What' s the difference between Getting of an unicorn, or getting off?
[21:54] <Krenon> Nothing? That is a gross miscarriage if you'll excuse the pun.
[21:55] <fithp> Bob Gleason, ubereditor for Lucifer's Hammer, was given (by an undereditor) a manuscript utterly festooned with ribbons. Question on the ribbon, ribbon taped in place. Bob tore them off and started over. Some editors have no sense.
[21:55] <Harry_Red> GET OF means CHILD of PiWi. GET OFF means DISMOUNT.
[21:55] <CarolTLP> A word in MOTE IN GOD'S EYE got changed from "spaced" to "spared" and changed the entire meaning of the passage. Must be rough in a feild where the author picks what is the norm.
[21:55] <NickEyour> Teela's contraceptive shot may have worn off while she was with Louis, her Luck would have seen to it I assume
[21:55] <CarolTLP> Get is a word meaning offspring, afaik.
[21:55] <NickEyour> Correct
[21:55] <Nesssus> Larry, who is going to publish the Draco Tavern Collection? Tor?
[21:55] <PiWi> Thanks for all the explanation!
[21:56] <CarolTLP> Get of the unicorn would mean offspring of the unicorn, as opposed to getdown from the unicorn.
[21:56] <Krenon> I thought that story about "Footfall" being erroneously listed on Ebay as "Football" was funny.
[21:56] <CarolTLP> Yes, that was listed several times wrong!
[21:56] <fithp> TOR has the Draco Tavern stories, yes.
[21:56] <Nesssus> Will it be called "The Draco Tavern", or have you come up with another name for the collection?
[21:56] <Harry_Red> The best editor(s) I've worked with has been John Carr and Jerry Pournelle.
[21:57] <PiWi> I also like the suggestions MS Word spellingchecker makes for words I use in my daily job
[21:57] <fithp> Bob Gleason has been my best editor, but all have been good.
[21:57] <Harry_Red> Who Knows. It might have gotten FOOTFALL into the hands of some Sports Fans.
[21:57] <Nesssus> especially people's names
[21:57] <PiWi> Harry - but those are writers as well!
[21:57] <PiWi> Nesssus, yes
[21:57] <Krenon> Carol told me that, and also that nobody bid for it.
[21:57] <Harry_Red> Yeah. They KNOW the problems a writer faces and will work with you.
[21:57] <Krenon> Or something similar.
[21:58] <NickEyour> That's gotta help
[21:58] <fithp> I've got to bug out. Someone expected at my door.
[21:59] <CarolTLP> Nice seeing you Larry!
[21:59] <Nesssus> ok Larry. Glad you could make it
[21:59] <SteveS> See ya, Larry. Nice talking to you!
[21:59] <Krenon> Going? Bye.
[21:59] <Nesssus> Good afternoon.
[21:59] *** fithp has quit IRC (Leaving )
[21:59] <NickEyour> I hate MS word spellchecker, bloody useless for bioscience!
[21:59] <NickEyour> Bye latrry
[21:59] <Harry_Red> Adios Larry.
[21:59] <PiWi> bye larry! loved talking to you
[22:00] <NickEyour> Always fun when LArry pops in!
[22:00] <Krenon> Of course.
[22:00] <Harry_Red> I use to write in Q&A WRUTE 4.0. It had a senseable spell checker with an easly editable dictionary.
[22:00] <NickEyour> NOt that it 'aint otherwise of course :-)
[22:00] <Nesssus> Shame he killed our "Wok World" speculation. That was fun ;-)
[22:00] <PiWi> Don' t you feel uncomfortable that your beloved author is here in the flesh? Shock and Awe, and such?
[22:00] <Krenon> Not many well known authors would bother to sit in on chats between fans.
[22:00] <NickEyour> Yeah, could have run with that
[22:01] <Nesssus> Yep.
[22:01] <CrazyEddy> Who mentioned snow? We have tropical rain here right now.
[22:01] <Harry_Red> It was his right to do so Nessus. I respect that.
[22:01] <Krenon> PiWi, no. Larry is a very friendly and approachable guy.
[22:01] <NickEyour> I'm very glad he does. He's a fan too
[22:01] <Nesssus> I always think that when I get to meet him in person, I'll to a "Wayne's world" I'm not worthy impression and prostrate myself on the floor.
[22:01] <Harry_Red> Larry is DEFINATLY one of the good ones.
[22:01] <CarolTLP> Shame he told me not to tell you everything he already told me about wok world. Redd, you know to much too!
[22:01] <NickEyour> LOL bigtime! You and me both!
[22:02] <NickEyour> Oh shut up ! :-)
[22:02] <PiWi> Wok world? Missed it, I suppose. Here in Holland, a wok is a cooking device?
[22:02] <Krenon> Get over that before Interaction, won't you.
[22:02] <Harry_Red> Truly, and I don't tell either.
[22:02] <CarolTLP> Yes, this megasstructure is shaped like a wok, from the side.
[22:02] <Harry_Red> It's a cooking device here too Piwi.
[22:03] <Nesssus> speaking of spellcheckers.... the amazon.com listing for Ringworld's Children has a classic humdinger of a misspelling: Jeery Pournelle <g>
[22:03] <CarolTLP> I udes to have a wok. would like one again, I think, but they are so big, and I have such a small kitchen!
[22:03] <Krenon> Better than Leery Niven
[22:03] <Nesssus> Apparently Larry's nicknamed the story that because it's about half of a dyson sphere
[22:03] <NickEyour> Not suprisingly, the list has a history of playing with megastructures, even came up with our own Dimpleworld!
[22:03] <PiWi> Say, guys - I've read Ringworld, Ringworld Engineers, and Integral Trees. What book should I read next?
[22:03] <Harry_Red> They make 12 in WOKS now Carol.
[22:03] <Nesssus> Neutron Star.
[22:03] <CarolTLP> I beleive he came up with the nickname of wok worlld while we were talking about it.
[22:04] <Krenon> Yes. Some early short stories.
[22:04] <CrazyEddy> Mote in Gods Eye..!
[22:04] <Nesssus> It's a short story collection. It's got several hugo winning short stories in it. Some of Larry's best
[22:04] <CarolTLP> " They make 12 in WOKS now Carol." I don't understand.
[22:04] <NickEyour> Then Protector!
[22:04] <SteveS> Protector.
[22:04] <Harry_Red> PROTECTOR!
[22:04] <Nesssus> it helps you put the Known Space Universe in some sort of perspective too.
[22:04] <CarolTLP> PiWi, read THE BURNING CITY!
[22:04] <NickEyour> Ya
[22:04] <Harry_Red> WORLD OF PTAVVES too.
[22:05] <Krenon> Protector. A Gift From Earth
[22:05] <Harry_Red> A Wok 12' in Diameter.
[22:05] <NickEyour> Definitely. The earlier Known Space stories are all worth a visit
[22:05] <monokrom> World Out of Time
[22:05] <Krenon> Early stuff first I think.
[22:05] <Harry_Red> Truly. First the EARLY STUFF.
[22:05] <NickEyour> As is just about anything Larry writes of course. Yeah, WOOT is one of my faves
[22:06] <CarolTLP> Ah, I see. I wonder if that would be big enough for cooking for 4?
[22:06] <PiWi> Thanks for all the suggestions, am writing them down!
[22:06] <PiWi> Looked up Dyson Sphere on Internet. How can you have half of it?
[22:06] <CarolTLP> Nesssus, don't we still have our favorites available on Amazon?
[22:06] <Harry_Red> I suspect you could... In portions.
[22:06] <Krenon> We have an electric wok that is that size or larger. It would be hard to cook for 4 unless you filled up on rice.
[22:06] <Nesssus> Ask Larry ;-)
[22:07] <Nesssus> Yes, hold on
[22:07] <CarolTLP> I'd love to say, but I've been sworn to secrecy.
[22:07] <Krenon> I visualise a Dyson hemisphere spinning. Very little of it would be habitable. Near the bottom you would get thrown sideways.
[22:07] <SteveS> I guess light pressure could hold it above the sun's surface.
[22:07] <NickEyour> It'd have to be a huge wok to do a single dish for 4. We usually have rice or noodles as well. It'll do chili or spag bol for 4 though
[22:08] * CarolTLP has zipped lips
[22:08] <Harry_Red> Solar Wind Attitude jets a Necessity I suspect.
[22:08] * Redflame has zipped lips too!
[22:09] <CarolTLP> It is hard to not TELL you all the answers you seek!
[22:09] <NickEyour> Pry bar at the ready!
[22:09] <SteveS> :-)
[22:09] <Krenon> The only way I can see a hemisphere being habitable is gravity generators or magic.
[22:10] <NickEyour> And neither of you drink much now so what chance do we have!!!
[22:10] <Harry_Red> The MAGIC OF THE WOK? Hmmm, I think that's been published as a Cook BOok.
[22:10] <NickEyour> LOL
[22:10] <PiWi> Wok Travels
[22:10] <Nesssus> Ted, Carol and My top ten Niven Reads are listed here: http://www.larryniven.org/credits.htm
[22:10] <Krenon> Don't worry, Nick. At Conflux we will steal all Greg Benford's pants and promise to return them only when he tells all.
[22:10] <Nesssus> Surprisingly, they are not the same
[22:11] <NickEyour> Actually, Joy suggested Heaven's Bowl as a variant on Bowl Of Heaven
[22:11] <NickEyour> You do that TED :-)
[22:11] <Krenon> "And that inverted bowl they call the sky" - the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam
[22:12] <SteveS> You might need to bring in Brin, because you'd need to "Heaven's Reach" to get the Bowl down out of the cabinet. :-)
[22:12] <PiWi> Bookmarked that site, thanks nesssus
[22:12] <NickEyour> Yeah, thought teher were some classical versions of it, suspect it may be a chinese name for the sky
[22:12] <Nesssus> If you explore around a little, you'll find reviews of all the stories in our top tens. It will give you some idea about whether you want to read them or not
[22:13] <NickEyour> <grin> Steve
[22:13] <SteveS> The pun was a "Reach" as well. ;-)
[22:14] <NickEyour> If you aren't on the list PiWi, you should be, details via teh Known Space site
[22:14] <Harry_Red> A topping Reach!
[22:14] <PiWi> ? Nick, what list?
[22:14] <Nesssus> Larry Niven Mailing List
[22:14] <NickEyour> mailing list that is, though I gues you probably are
[22:14] <Nesssus> http://www.larryniven-l.org to subscribe yourself
[22:14] <PiWi> Nesssus? Am I?
[22:14] <Nesssus> No, she's not
[22:14] <Krenon> Yup, and three of the list managers are here.
[22:15] <PiWi> But I know sh*t about Larry and his books!
[22:15] <NickEyour> Pretty good roll call this chat in fact!
[22:15] *** Krenon sets mode: +o CarolTLP
[22:15] <Nesssus> you're on my non-larryniven-l bcc list for Chat announcements
[22:15] <Harry_Red> You'll learn PiWi. The list will teach much.
[22:15] <NickEyour> Always time to learn!
[22:16] <PiWi> ;-) hmmm... but do I WANT to learn? Why? >:)
[22:16] <Nesssus> You'll learn about space technology, and also learn to dodge politics and religious debates....
[22:16] <PiWi> LOL
[22:16] <Nesssus> but there's no CAG on the list either <g>
[22:16] <NickEyour> <grin>
[22:16] <PiWi> People here know about CAG as well?
[22:16] <NickEyour> CAG? New one on me
[22:16] <PiWi> She's getting real famous!
[22:16] <Krenon> Me too
[22:17] <SteveS> CAG?
[22:17] <PiWi> Krenon, you too what?
[22:17] <Nesssus> An "in" joke.
[22:17] <Krenon> Don't know what CAG means
[22:17] <NickEyour> C'mon, it's not just me...Give!
[22:17] <Nesssus> Noooo... they don't. But no doubt they'd think that she's a strange as we do.
[22:17] <CarolTLP> CAG?
[22:17] <Harry_Red> CAG? Carrier Air Group?
[22:18] <Harry_Red> CAG? Carrier Air Group (Commander)?
[22:18] <Krenon> Well there's certainly not one of those on the list.
[22:18] <PiWi> Eh, no, she' s a person... and a mystery to me and Nesssus
[22:18] <Nesssus> CAG is the initals of a person.
[22:18] <Krenon> Oh
[22:19] <NickEyour> George Akin is in the air force, short colnel IIRC
[22:19] <Krenon> I thought it must be something like FAQ
[22:19] <PiWi> She claims to have finished college/university, but truly I think she understands nowt of the world!
[22:19] <NickEyour> Ah, a notorious one I asume
[22:20] <PiWi> I feel some connections in her head are twisted
[22:20] <Harry_Red> I run into those on an almost daily basis... In Chatrooms.
[22:20] <NickEyour> Bio (well, OK, more beer) break
[22:20] <Nesssus> She's very religious and travels from place to place around the world (she started in Scotland last year, then went to Iowa, Montana, California, Hawaii, and now she's back in Montana).
[22:20] <CarolTLP> Some people managet o maintain their ignorance despite degrees. Anyone here meet my mother?
[22:20] <PiWi> Because to her, all she says and does makes perfect sense and logic, but to the rest of the world, she is ... strange, to put it mildly
[22:20] <Krenon> Yeah. He makes out it is for health reasons and he's really just opening another beer.
[22:21] <PiWi> Carol: no, but I trade you (unseen) for mine! <vbg>
[22:21] <Nesssus> nothing wrong with Beer (burp!)
[22:21] <Krenon> Oh I didn't say there was anything wrong with it.
[22:21] <PiWi> And during her travels, she only meets BAD people! according to her
[22:21] <CarolTLP> Well, PiWi, we might be able to come to some conclusions. I couldn't understand a WORD your mother said to me, and you could completely ignore mine!
[22:22] <Harry_Red> I've traveled much but on the Underside and much of that on minimum funds. You get a different prospective that way.
[22:22] <PiWi> I am not the ignoring kind...
[22:22] <Krenon> Personally, while Americans were singing "The land of the free and the home of the brave" I'd be singing "The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine".
[22:22] <Nesssus> Well, she had to leave Hawaii a month ago because she was camping out on the beach every night and facing $100 fines.
[22:22] <CarolTLP> Piwi, you live in an area so rich in culture. I had a HS student from the Netherlands. Culturally, he was many years older than my students. Emotionally, he was still just a boy.
[22:22] <Harry_Red> Hmmm To some people "BAD" means those who disagree with one's preconcieved notions.
[22:23] <PiWi> And my mother, despite the fact she speaks very little english, is perfectly capable of making her thoughts clear. She estranged her american DIL that way...
[22:23] <PiWi> Well, to CAG, Bad means they tell her off, or ask money for services rendered, or...
[22:23] <Nesssus> No. People take advantage of her. But she does put herself in very dangerous situations, like hitch-hiking. We've all tried to warn her.... but she just doesn't listen to reason.
[22:23] <Harry_Red> AHA Piwi! A FREELANCE SOCIALIST!
[22:24] <CarolTLP> Piwi, my mother drive my crazy. People like her is why OTHER people learn to zone out and live in their own little world.
[22:24] <PiWi> Socialist? ME?! Don't think so!
[22:24] <CarolTLP> I wonder if Redd was refering to CAG?
[22:24] <Harry_Red> Sounds like she has to learn from VERY HARD experiance.
[22:25] <Harry_Red> Yes, I was.
[22:25] <CarolTLP> I've noticed that the nicer peopel are to each other, the nicer other people are. When people act mean to others, ignorign their thoughts and feelings, they start to feel that no one listens to THEM. My pronouns make that hard to follow, yes?
[22:26] <PiWi> Carol: can relate to that. A couple of years ago, a friend of mine was reluctant to emigrate to the states because his mother was so attached to him. I told him " trade with my mother? She is a REASON to emigrate..." and always wondered, since then, if that is why my Bro went to the States...
[22:26] <Harry_Red> No, I was refering to CAG.
[22:26] <NickEyour> Back. It's late and I'm full so it had to be a Macallan :-) medicinal of couse as I'm sure Ted has implied ;-)
[22:26] <CarolTLP> I invite my motehr to come visit, because my children love beign around her so much. But then I have to spend all DAY with her!
[22:26] <Nesssus> Macallan?
[22:26] <PiWi> CAG just doesn't learn from her experiences, so life repeats the lessons time after time
[22:27] <Krenon> You shouldn't dring Macallan for *medicinal* purposes. Sacrilege!
[22:27] <Harry_Red> A truism Piwi.
[22:27] <NickEyour> THE Macallan, v. nice single malt, crimbo treat
[22:27] <CarolTLP> One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
[22:27] <Nesssus> Ahhh, a whisky. I thought you were on the beers?
[22:27] <Krenon> Been to the distillery! :-)
[22:27] <CarolTLP> brb
[22:27] <Harry_Red> Or Scientific Method Carol.
[22:27] <NickEyour> You know damn well I was lying Ted ;-0
[22:28] <PiWi> Carol: I agree on the being nice bit, experienced that myself. Don't understand what you mean with your pronouns making it hard to follow?
[22:28] <Krenon> Blended grain whisky is made for medicinal purposes.
[22:29] <NickEyour> Been on the beers since 6.30, want to avoid bio break requirements in the wee hours if you'll pardon the pun. Back to work on Monday so I'm making the most of my last chance at a lie in for a while!
[22:30] <PiWi> Ah, Whisk(e)y! Another subject I don't know sh*t about!
[22:30] <NickEyour> Again, always time to learn :-)
[22:30] <Nesssus> Nick, I'd be comotose by now if I had been drinking since 6:30 (4 hours)
[22:30] <PiWi> (which is not true actually. Visited both a Scottish and an Irish distillery)
[22:30] <CarolTLP> i guess you understood me. I just thought there were too many of the same words to descibe different people.
[22:30] <Krenon> PiWi, it is important to distinguish between whisky and whiskey.
[22:30] <PiWi> KrenoN; I KNOW!
[22:30] <Nesssus> Yeah the "E"
[22:30] <NickEyour> Taking it fairly slow and in small bottles so not that bad!
[22:30] <PiWi> Like Whiskey better than Wisky
[22:31] <Krenon> Bourbon, like Irish whiskey, is whiskEy.
[22:31] <Nesssus> I just don't get the diference between JD and whiskey.
[22:31] <CarolTLP> why does the 'e' matter?
[22:31] <Krenon> Bourbon is made from corn.
[22:31] <Nesssus> distilled cornflakes?
[22:32] *** Nesssus is now known as Vash
[22:32] <PiWi> My favorite Scottish single malt is Glenkinchie
[22:32] <Harry_Red> I prefer SCOTS Whiskey. Smokey Single Malts especially.
[22:32] <CarolTLP> WHY is it important to distinguish between whisky and whiskey?
[22:32] <NickEyour> Or should that be "Mash" :-) (sorry)
[22:32] <PiWi> Carol: Irish whiskey is with E. Scottish is without
[22:32] <Harry_Red> Try some TALISKER sometime Piwi. If you can afford it.
[22:32] <SteveS> Ah.
[22:32] <Krenon> You can call it Scotch. They do, as well as Scots.
[22:33] <Vash> M*A*S*H?
[22:33] <NickEyour> Talisker is a peaty one IIRC
[22:33] <Vash> I thought Hawk-eye brewed moonshine vodka?
[22:33] <Krenon> M*A*S*H? Puts a new spin on "Suicide is painless".
[22:33] <PiWi> Why does my cat wants to be fed AGAIN, only 4 hours after his previous, ful meal?
[22:33] <CarolTLP> I never could tell the difference. If it made you drunk, that is what mattered.
[22:33] <NickEyour> MAsh , vash feeble play on nick change...its the whisky I tell you!
[22:33] <Harry_Red> Yeah. I know a guy who made an exceptional Burbon from kellogs Cornflakes... Once.
[22:34] <SteveS> :-)
[22:34] <Vash> So what is the thing with the E?
[22:34] <PiWi> Anyone here that knows Vodka is made from potatoes?
[22:34] <Vash> wouldn't have make them soggy?
[22:34] <SteveS> "Yup.
[22:34] <NickEyour> Yup
[22:34] <Vash> the cornflakes, not the potatoes
[22:34] <Krenon> I have no idea. They both presumably come from the Gaelic "Usquebaugh" - "water of life".
[22:35] <CarolTLP> You could as easliy use corn flakes as roasted cracked barley.
[22:35] <NickEyour> Oh ghod, I've perverted the discussion to booze yet again :-(
[22:35] <PiWi> Now that would be a smashing breakfast!
[22:35] <NickEyour> <groan>
[22:35] <Harry_Red> Yeah. You can make drinkin' Alky from just about ANYTHING that contains Starch and Sugar. I haven't tried Sweet Peas though.
[22:35] <Vash> Yes, all this talk of alcohol is your fault, Nick!
[22:36] <NickEyour> <guilty>
[22:36] <Vash> popcorn?
[22:36] <PiWi> Aren't there many UK people brewing their own wine from strange ingredients?
[22:36] <Krenon> He talks about it ... he drinks it ...
[22:36] <Krenon> I've done a fair bit of mead.
[22:36] <PiWi> Flowers and such?
[22:36] <PiWi> Oh, mead, YES!!!
[22:36] <Vash> What's mead taste like?
[22:37] <PiWi> I can get very, very drunk on mead
[22:37] <NickEyour> Oh ghod...I've got a *rep*!!!
[22:37] <Krenon> Oh yes. Things like elderberry wine, sloe wine.
[22:37] <PiWi> That's it
[22:37] <PiWi> MEad is made from honey, so it's sweet
[22:37] <NickEyour> Nice. Sweet unsuprisingly and very warming
[22:37] <Vash> I had some nice blackberry wine earlier this year
[22:37] <PiWi> Like what we in Holland call Likeur - liquor
[22:37] <Krenon> candy is dandy but liquor is quiquor. Even sloe wine.
[22:38] <Vash> doesn't the honey make mead sickly?
[22:38] <NickEyour> Sloe Gin. I still have plenty left and have been very restrained this year I'll have you know ;-)
[22:38] <Krenon> No. Not if you make it with the right amount of residual sugar.
[22:38] <PiWi> Usually, likeur is quite thick, syropy like. Mead isn't. It taste like very sweet white wine with some... nature tastings in it
[22:38] <Harry_Red> Dandalion Wine!
[22:39] <Vash> I like really sweet wines - even those rated 8, those desert wines that taste like venos honey and lemon. Is mead anything like that?
[22:39] <NickEyour> Been a while since I tried my hand at home brew, not got the space for it now
[22:39] <CarolTLP> some of the sweetness of mead goes into feeding the yeasties, untill the alcohol kills the yeast.
[22:39] <PiWi> We have the most delicious liquors here - Safari, 43, Pisang Ambon...
[22:39] <Vash> What's Pissing Ambon?
[22:39] <PiWi> LOL!
[22:39] <PiWi> PiSANG ambon! It's banana liquor
[22:40] <Krenon> Mead can be made sweet, medium or dry.
[22:40] <Vash> ooooohh I bet that's nice
[22:40] <Vash> I like fruity liquors. I love Cherry Brandy.
[22:40] <PiWi> Great if you mix it with 7 up, or orange juice. Want me to send you some?
[22:40] <PiWi> Don't let the venom green color turn you off
[22:40] <NickEyour> Alcoholic bannanas...hmm...be a very late night before I tried that!
[22:40] <Vash> In spain, I was drinking Cherry and Watermelon Schnapps. You can only get Peach and Apple schnapps here.
[22:40] <Harry_Red> PiWi. I use to be a great fan of BOLES Corduals. Lime maricino Cherry over vannila icecream. YUM!/:-).....
[22:41] <PiWi> Harry, that's a new one for me!
[22:41] <Vash> I don't think it would go through customs, but the next time you're over, keep me in mind for a bottle.
[22:41] <CarolTLP> green banana liquour? What would that do to Banana's Foster?
[22:41] <CarolTLP> PiWi, you should consider WorldCon in Glasgow!
[22:41] <NickEyour> We did do Apricot Brandy and Champagne cocktails on New Years Eve though, rather nice
[22:42] <Krenon> Yes. Definitely! (slips on Australian agent's hat)
[22:42] <Vash> Apricot brandy's nice too.
[22:42] <PiWi> Why would I like that one?
[22:42] <Vash> We are all going there. And so is Larry
[22:42] <NickEyour> Yep, World Con! Resolution 158 is to actually get my name down this year!
[22:42] <Harry_Red> The japanese make an EXCELLENT Cherry Brandy.
[22:42] <Vash> It sounds like everyone's going to get pretty drunk there too!
[22:43] <CarolTLP> It is big, and close, people you know will be there, and you could meet Larry!
[22:43] <Krenon> Hopefully meet me, if you can find me.
[22:43] <NickEyour> Could be. I'll have to do some extra Sloe Gin!
[22:43] <PiWi> Vash: I think I can get small bottles, try-size. of both Pisang Ambon and Safari.
[22:43] <CarolTLP> Well, not ALL of us are going. Some of us will be HERE in Houston.
[22:43] <Harry_Red> Ofcourse everyone's going to be pretty drunk Vash. It's in SCOTLAND!
[22:43] <Vash> What is Safari?
[22:43] <NickEyour> We've got to get Carol there somehow!
[22:44] <PiWi> What is Resulution ?
[22:44] <Krenon> Oh I don't know. What about the Send Carol To Interaction fund.
[22:44] <Vash> New Year's Resolution
[22:44] <PiWi> Safari is exotic fruit liquor. Also terrific in orange juice
[22:44] <Krenon> Bah! You women and your alkopops!
[22:44] <PiWi> When is that World Con?
[22:44] <Krenon> August 2005.
[22:45] <Vash> End Aug/beg September 2005
[22:45] <NickEyour> Oh, a silly promise you make at the start of the tyear that nobody ever keeps, but if it's far enough down the list, I might just get around to doing it ;-)
[22:45] <PiWi> Don't do any promises mind you, England is still $$$ away
[22:45] <Krenon> NO, Beginning of August!
[22:45] <PiWi> Oh, I can save up then!
[22:45] <PiWi> My new years resolution is that I won't make any this year!
[22:45] <PiWi> Tried several previous years, and didn't like them :-)
[22:46] <PiWi> Krenon: is no alcopop!!
[22:46] <CarolTLP> Didn't like money, liquour, fans, or conventions?
[22:46] <PiWi> Carol: oops! Meant resolutions....
[22:46] <SteveS> I need to go to one outside of my immediate area one of these days... :-)
[22:46] <PiWi> Like money!!!
[22:46] <CarolTLP> WOn't make any money, conventions, or liqours?
[22:46] <Krenon> Check http://www.interaction.worldcon.org.uk/
[22:46] <Vash> Piwi and Me in the Hobbit Cart at the LOTR Exhibition in London: http://www.geocities.com/vashq/nov03.htm
[22:46] <CarolTLP> LOL. My resolution is to keep doing martial arts!
[22:46] <NickEyour> Trying to save up for the TT this year as well :-(
[22:46] <PiWi> <buries head in hands in shame>
[22:47] <CarolTLP> Steve, how was the rest of your vacation?
[22:47] <PiWi> Carol: won't make any resolutions. Liquors: never tried making them, and money, erm, isn't that illegal? making your own money? <bg>
[22:48] <SteveS> Pretty good. The whole family went to see Return of the King.
[22:48] <NickEyour> The LOTR exhibition was excellent wasnt it. I loved the weapons!
[22:48] <Vash> If you didn't make any money, what would the Government tax?
[22:48] <CarolTLP> LOL, piwi. PiWi, I look forward for the holiday season to end, so I can get back to my regular schedule.
[22:48] <Vash> I liked Galadriel's dress and seeing the elven rings.
[22:48] <Vash> You still didn't see Elrond's ring even in ROTK. I looked out for it as well.
[22:49] <PiWi> I also liked all the dresses
[22:49] <PiWi> And the stories behind the scenes... remember the Ork attack story, VAsh?
[22:49] <Vash> Oh year, the AI driven characters running away from the battle at Helms Deep!!!
[22:49] <CarolTLP> Even Livs?
[22:50] <Harry_Red> NEVER COUNTERFIT. The Government hates the competition!
[22:50] <Vash> Yes. The one she wore on the horse with Frodo
[22:50] <NickEyour> Didn't tell us it was you *and PiWi !!! Excellent!
[22:50] <PiWi> Eh, yes, I am the one in the stripey shirt...
[22:51] <Vash> I read in an interview that when the cast members left the shooting of the films they each got to keep a weapon that their character had fought with. Liv Tyler got to keep her red and blue dress from ROTK
[22:51] <NickEyour> That was funny, all these Uru HAi running over the big rock when they were supposed ton go around...so much for AI ;-)
[22:51] <NickEyour> Figured that out :-)
[22:51] <PiWi> Yes, nick, but if they made them more intelligent, they refused fighting the elves... LOL
[22:51] <Vash> Not to mention all those squashed discarded feet and ears in that display
[22:52] <Krenon> I'm wondering if the LotR exhibit will come to Australia
[22:52] <PiWi> Cate Blanchett got to keep her ears, wasn't she?
[22:52] <Vash> Elija wood said that they gave him a pair of stinky hobbit feet to keep too.
[22:52] <PiWi> Krenon: yes, it will go to Sydney
[22:52] <Vash> I don't know. The interview didn't say what she got.
[22:52] <NickEyour> LOL yup . I enjoyed that, could have stayed longer but my two sons were getting tired and had been very tolerant
[22:52] <Vash> Treebeard's head was there as well
[22:53] <CarolTLP> I waited untill Peter took the kids to a playdate, then told him I was going to the movie, and I would see him in FOUR hours!
[22:53] <SteveS> :-)
[22:53] <Krenon> PiWi, any idea when?
[22:53] <NickEyour> So, did they actually make Narsil and then break it? Looked incredible!
[22:54] <Vash> The best had to be Boromir's body in the boat. It was as if they'd paid Sean Bean to lay there for hours.
[22:55] <SteveS> They mentioned that one in the Two Towers special features. What little I saw of it looked really amazing.
[22:55] <PiWi> Krenon, no.
[22:55] <NickEyour> Yep. Amazing. Put Madame Tussards to shame!
[22:55] <SteveS> They got the painter to paint Gollum's skin texture using the same technique.
[22:56] <NickEyour> Definitely worth a few quid to go see it if anyone else gets the chance
[22:57] <CarolTLP> Gollum's skin was nice, but I didn't like how they did his hair.
[22:58] <Harry_Red> Gollum's hair looked like that of an accountant I once knew... Hmmm shared several of Gollum's other traits too as I recall.
[22:58] <SteveS> <g>
[22:58] <NickEyour> Better boogie soon, dialup approaching the 3 hour mark. Maybe one more dram's worth ;-)
[22:59] <CarolTLP> He shouldn't have had bangs in the front. And I didn't think it acted as strands of long hair would have, although I could tell they tried.
[22:59] <Harry_Red> Adios Nick. That's the nice thing about EARTHLINK DIalup. Unlimited time.
[22:59] <CarolTLP> I also didn't care for how the lava flowed around the outcrapping that Frodo adn Samwise were stranded upon.
[22:59] <CarolTLP> Nice seeing you nick.
[23:00] <SteveS> Yeah, that was awfully convenient.
[23:00] <SteveS> Night, Nick!
[23:00] <Vash> Did it seem at the end that Gollum was more worried about keeping the Ring out of the lava, than worrying about his own flesh being consumed by it?
[23:00] <Krenon> G'night Nick
[23:00] <Vash> I can't remember the book very well. I think he just fell in.
[23:00] <PiWi> Night Nick!
[23:00] <Vash> Good night Nick. Have a last shot for me
[23:00] <PiWi> I think in the book he just feel, yest
[23:00] <SteveS> I didn't notice at the time, but now that I think of it, it did look like he was protecting it.
[23:01] <NickEyour> Fairly minor quibble. In fact apart from major omissions that we could debate until the cows come home, I think most quibble were fairly minor
[23:01] <Harry_Red> That protraila was accurate Vash. THE RING would fight for it's survival.
[23:01] <PiWi> Well, like the miraculus healing of Merry and Faramir, and the Healing Powers of the True King not displayed in the movie?
[23:01] <SteveS> Makes sense to me.
[23:01] <NickEyour> I certainly will! Night folks, been a lot of fun tonight as always.
[23:02] <Krenon> Vash, you don't drink single malts like American cowboys drink bourbon. :-)
[23:02] *** monokrom has quit IRC (ChatZilla 0.9.35 [Mozilla rv:1.5/20031007] )
[23:02] <Vash> There's supposed to be a scene in the halls of healing in the extended dvd for the ROTK
[23:02] <PiWi> Also, keep wondering, if the Nazgul could find Frodo in the Shire, why can't they find and feel the Ring when he's in Mordor?
[23:02] <CarolTLP> Steve, I don't mind the fact that they found an outcropping to survive on. WHat I mind is that it did not flow realistically.
[23:02] <Krenon> Hm ... Nick says good night and monokrom leaves.
[23:02] <NickEyour> Beat me to it :-)
[23:02] <PiWi> Roll on extended DVD
[23:03] <CarolTLP> So, nick and momokrom are one?
[23:03] <CarolTLP> And Nickeyour is still here!
[23:03] <NickEyour> Nope, still here
[23:03] <Vash> No. Don't know who Momokrom was. He was here before Nick turned up anyway.
[23:03] <NickEyour> No idea who that was, very quiet
[23:03] <Harry_Red> The NAZGUL were busy at the time AND under specific orders is the way I see it.
[23:04] <CarolTLP> Steve, when the lava hit the rock, it did not spash up the way it should have. It didn't ride up the outcrapping a bit then flow down.
[23:04] <SteveS> And Sauron probably didn't think they'd make it anyway.
[23:04] <Krenon> Undoubtedly a terrorist. Did he leave an unattended bag behind?
[23:04] <NickEyour> Look, I really had bettre go as my tyoing is degenerating faster than usual :-) Byeee!
[23:04] <Harry_Red> "He was very quiet". Must have been hunting Wabbits!
[23:04] <SteveS> :-)
[23:05] <Krenon> Bye
[23:05] <NickEyour> LOL Cheers Frank. L8R on the lsit
[23:05] <PiWi> Bye
[23:05] <Harry_Red> Adios to those who are leaving.
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[23:05] <SteveS> I didn't notice the lava flow. I'll have to look out for it next time I see the movie.
[23:05] <Harry_Red> Adios Nick. Have a good one.
[23:05] <CrazyEddy> .wud
[23:06] <CarolTLP> It looks like they filmed a slow horizontal flow, then tilted it, sped it up, and added the outcropping.
[23:06] <CarolTLP> Steve, did you enjoy the rest of your trip?
[23:06] <SteveS> There were some places where the lava didn't quite look right.
[23:06] <PiWi> Erm, steve, have you seen lava from close by
[23:07] <Krenon> I can forgive them the outcrop. In the book they were supposed to have been on an island amid the lava. I couldn't stand Denethor's Human Torch thing though.
[23:07] <SteveS> Yup, I had a nice visit with the rest of the family, and got to talk to Robert Seeberger for a while, the night before the drive homw.
[23:07] <PiWi> Krenon: agree with you there
[23:07] <SteveS> I've seen stock footage of lava on screen, but no lava in person.
[23:08] <CarolTLP> Good, he wrote to my for your phone number.
[23:08] <SteveS> Oops. If I'd thought of it, I would have sent it to him myself.
[23:08] <CarolTLP> Piwi, have YOU seen lava from clse up? I've only seen recordings.
[23:09] <Harry_Red> I have Carol. Lava ALWAYS looks strange.
[23:09] <Krenon> Actually the worst thing about those Mount Doom scenes was Gollum's sinking into the lava. He'd have been burned to a crisp long before that.
[23:09] <PiWi> No, haven't seen Lava except for on television documentairys
[23:09] <SteveS> Yeah, he's less tough than the Terminator.
[23:09] <CarolTLP> Redd, have you seen the movie? Did you think that flow looked poorly done?
[23:09] <Harry_Red> Not quite. Lave at about 850 (F) would be disloving him from the bottom up.
[23:10] <PiWi> Holland is awfully boring: no vulcanoes, no earthquakes, no twisters... only the incidental flooding :-)
[23:10] <CarolTLP> Some kinds of borring are GOOD!
[23:10] <Harry_Red> It was better than most movie Lava effects usually are Carol.
[23:11] <PiWi> Carol: I agree with you. Whenever I see a natural disaster on the news, I can't help thinking " God, we in Holland are soooo lucky!"
[23:11] <Krenon> The Australian outback is like that except that there are virtually never floods either.
[23:11] <CarolTLP> I doubt that someone actually sinking in lava would have any breath to scream, although they may still be living long enough to feel intense pain.
[23:11] * SteveS shudders
[23:11] <Krenon> I suspect that he'd have burned up before actually touching it.
[23:12] <Vash> No Ted, Australia is fairly safe except if you're Steve Irwin's baby.
[23:12] <PiWi> No., I think the body shuts down all the feelings not to overexpose itself
[23:12] <SteveS> LOL
[23:12] <Krenon> The description in the book suggests that he fell down a narrow crack.
[23:12] <PiWi> Often people that are burned or shot say they don't feel anything
[23:12] <CarolTLP> Maybe, if he was held suspended for some time above it. However, falling happens fast, and we arent' tlaking plasma temeratures here.
[23:12] <PiWi> Or have a limb bitten of by a shark, or so
[23:13] <PiWi> I don't agree with the newspaper that compared Irwins actions with that of Michael J
[23:13] <Harry_Red> Truly. Jackson was MALACIOUS!
[23:13] <PiWi> I haven't seen the footage, but holding a baby with one arm, while feeding a croc with the other... doesn't sound dangerous to me
[23:13] <Vash> Michael Jackson - dangling baby over balcony vs Steve Irwin - dangling baby over hungry crocodile....?
[23:14] <PiWi> He wasn't dangling the baby!
[23:14] <PiWi> The baby happened to be in his arms
[23:14] <Krenon> Oh yes, The s*it has really hit the fan over Steve Irwin
[23:14] <CarolTLP> Saw that. He shouldn't have had his baby close.
[23:14] <Vash> Have you seen Dr Doolittle 2?
[23:14] <PiWi> By the way, I don't think MJ really had sex with children
[23:14] <Harry_Red> Steve Irwindosen't have MEDIA STARS to protect him.
[23:15] <SteveS> I saw it, though I don't remember much about it.
[23:15] <Vash> Irwin has a cameo role in it, and Doolittle says that the crocodile is really pissed off, and warns Steve, but he ignores Doolittle so the Croc gets him.
[23:15] <PiWi> Havent seen any of the Dr Doolittles. Am allergic to Eddy Murphy :-)
[23:15] <SteveS> Oh, yeah, I remember that one.
[23:15] <Harry_Red> The evidence seems to be pointing the other way PiWi.
[23:15] <Vash> No. I think MJ is innocent of everything but being a little weird.
[23:16] <PiWi> Nah, the parents just want money. I agree with vash. Maybe he and CAG should meet up >:)
[23:16] <SteveS> A little? :-)
[23:16] <CarolTLP> I think there is certainly the possibility he didn't. If he gave intoxicants to children, he shouldn't have, but I really don't think there is anything wrong with sleeping with children. I sleep with children. I do happen to be related to them, though.
[23:16] <CarolTLP> Yes, steve, I was thinking the same thing. A little?
[23:16] <PiWi> Intoxicants? Child was 12 or so, give it a little beer, don't we always do that on partys?
[23:17] <SteveS> Yeah, I think him sleeping with kids was inappropriate, but if you hear media shrinks tell it, that makes him some kind of monster.
[23:17] <CarolTLP> It is illegal to give intoxicants to children under age if they are not your own. _I_ can give my children a bit of intoxicants, but YOU may not.
[23:18] <Krenon> I once read about a guy who got his 8 y o daughter to drink several nips of whisky just to see what would happen. She just wnet to sleep and woke up later with no hangover.
[23:18] <PiWi> Oh. Sorry. Didn't know that, Carol. Still, I think the media are out to get thim
[23:18] <CarolTLP> The media are just too stupid to tell a real stroy, or to ferret out facts.
[23:18] <PiWi> In the middle ages, a common pacifier for small children was a rag filled with suger, dozed in rum
[23:18] <Harry_Red> Jackson does fit a certain profile though.
[23:18] <CarolTLP> There are no real journalists anymore.
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[23:19] <SteveS> Agreed about the profile. I don't know if he actually abused those kids, but he definitely has some serious problems.
[23:20] <CarolTLP> I heard he tended to keep a nanny around, I guess to help protect him from these kinds of attacks. He didn't keep the nanny close enough I guess.
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[23:20] <Vash> Hi PiWi
[23:20] <CarolTLP> Wb
[23:20] <SteveS> WB
[23:21] <Vash> When I was younger, I used to love playing video games, one of the neighbour's kids used to come over every day to get his ass whooped at Mario Kart. I'd know his elder brother and sisters for years before this, but he was 10 and I was 20. I sometimes wonder what his mother thought about him constantly knocking on the door. It's those sort of thoughts that start to make things awkward for Michael and his sueable millions.
[23:21] <PiWi> Hi. I clicked refresh (to update the time) and was kicked out
[23:21] <Krenon> The computer thought that refresh meant leave the chat
[23:21] <Vash> I know if you surf off the chat page you leave the chat.
[23:21] <PiWi> Rumour has it, Michael got money trubble
[23:21] <Vash> I thought you had done that by accident
[23:22] <PiWi> Well, yes, accident - didn't mean to leave. Just wanted to update the time
[23:22] <CarolTLP> I used to have a neighborhood boy who came over to hang out. I liked him.
[23:22] <Krenon> It's hard to think that he has money troubles when he owns all the copyrights to the early Beatles songs.
[23:22] <Vash> That was the game that taught me to SWEAR!!!
[23:22] <SteveS> :-)
[23:22] <CarolTLP> I was in my early 20s then, living with a man who was in his 30s, I think. The boy was around 10. He was fun to have around.
[23:23] <CarolTLP> Does he really own all the beatles songs?
[23:23] <Krenon> Can I drink 1.3 litres of tea without going for a pee? JUST! (brb)
[23:25] <Harry_Red> Michael seems to have more Outgo than Income.
[23:25] <CarolTLP> When I first thought of the chat, I was thinking how nice it would be to have a cuppa and a biscotti, and got niether of them. :-(
[23:25] <CarolTLP> Well, when you already have so much, you can afford to spend more than you earn.
[23:25] <SteveS> For a while, at least.
[23:25] <Harry_Red> I suspect he paid a wopping big um to be accepted into the NATION OF ISLAM too.
[23:26] <CarolTLP> Just a church? Why would he have to pay a LOT?
[23:26] <Harry_Red> Also that the reason he's not going back to NEVERLAND is that he's sold it to pay legal and other fees.
[23:26] <Krenon> Back
[23:27] <Krenon> biscotti?
[23:27] <Harry_Red> Carol, NoI is not "just a church". It's much more than that. And not nice either.
[23:27] <CarolTLP> biscotti is a twice baked cake, a hard cookie that is made to dip in coffee to make it soggy.
[23:27] <Vash> like amaretti biscuits?
[23:28] <PiWi> Ah, like Scientolgoy -not-Church and not-nice-either?
[23:28] <SteveS> Exactly.
[23:28] <SteveS> But in a slightly different kind of "not nice".
[23:29] <CarolTLP> Maybe. Don't know what an amaretti biscuit is. Sounds the same.
[23:29] <Vash> what's scientology got to do with twice-baked biscuits?
[23:29] <CarolTLP> Nothing, I hope. Two different conversations.
[23:29] <SteveS> It sucks in half-baked people? ;-)
[23:29] <CarolTLP> So, what is so bad aobut Nation of Islam, and who wons Neverland, now?
[23:29] <Krenon> The word "biscuit" covers all cookies and crackers.
[23:30] <CarolTLP> to YOU is covers biscuits and crackers.
[23:30] <Vash> owns?
[23:30] <Vash> crackers are savoury
[23:30] <CarolTLP> Yes, who owns neverland now, if Jackson sold it to pay legal fees?
[23:31] <PiWi> At least those dutch syropy ones, right vash?
[23:31] <CarolTLP> biscuits are savory to us!
[23:31] <Vash> oh, they were loooooovely....
[23:31] <Vash> Send more....
[23:31] <PiWi> Okay!!
[23:31] <CarolTLP> syrpy savory crackers?
[23:31] <Vash> I wish you could get something just as gooey and crisp over here.
[23:31] <Harry_Red> Nation if Islam is Anti-Semetic, Anti-White of any kind and acts as a Prot4ection organization of the Al Capone kind in many black neighborhoods Carol.
[23:32] <Harry_Red> BISCOTTI covers a multitude of sins.
[23:32] <CarolTLP> Greek filo dough deserts are all very gooey and crispy.
[23:32] <PiWi> It's a dutch thing called Stroopwafels - treacle waffles
[23:32] <CarolTLP> ah. Wonder why they wold want Jackson in. Isn't he trying to pretend to be a white guy? He needs the protection?
[23:32] <CarolTLP> treacle is honey, yes?
[23:33] <Vash> More or less.
[23:33] <Vash> I'm getting sleepy here, so I'm going to have to call it a night.
[23:33] <CarolTLP> treakle tarts as mentioned in the Potter univers, would be like..... pecanpie without the pecans?
[23:33] <Vash> It was great to see Larry here again.
[23:33] <Vash> I just wish he'd let us know he was coming ... <G>
[23:33] <CarolTLP> Yes. Anyone kep stats on how often he comes?
[23:33] <CarolTLP> every third time?
[23:34] <SteveS> Sopunds about right.
[23:34] <Vash> seems to be every 3rd or 4th time.
[23:34] <Harry_Red> They want MONEY and he wants PROTECTION if he goes to Prison. Without it, the inmates would make him last a VERY LONG TIME before killing him.
[23:34] <Krenon> Less than third. More like once a year. Santa Claus :-)
[23:34] <CrazyEddy> Last time I counted it was about once or twice a year.
[23:34] <CarolTLP> Often enough to keeo us guessing, rare enough to keep us from becoming complacent!
[23:34] <Vash> enough time to elapse for him to have something to report on his new books.
[23:34] <PiWi> It's getting late here as well (an hour later than with you vash) and The Hobbit is being a pest
[23:34] <CarolTLP> He would be in solitary confinement for his own good, like poor ANdrea Yates.
[23:34] <PiWi> So I am about to sigh off too
[23:34] <Vash> He's got the Beard to be SC
[23:35] <SteveS> OK. Night, Vash and PiWi!
[23:35] <CarolTLP> G'night Piwi, vash.
[23:35] <Vash> Piwi's cat is called Hobbit in case anyone wondered if she had Frodo under her bed.
[23:35] <PiWi> Bye! Lovely talking to you!
[23:35] <Krenon> 'Night PiWi
[23:35] <CarolTLP> :-)
[23:35] <SteveS> :-)
[23:35] <PiWi> L:OL
[23:35] <Vash> Good night
[23:36] <PiWi> Well, if I had to choose... more like Aragorn or Legolas
[23:36] <SteveS> :-)
[23:36] <PiWi> Good night all. Hope to make it next month!
[23:36] <Vash> yeah.... but which one.....? That's a hard call.
[23:36] <PiWi> And maybe, just maybe, I might have read another LN book
[23:36] <CarolTLP> Clara wants to send happy faces: (globe):-.(r)
[23:37] <SteveS> Hi, Clara!
[23:37] <PiWi> Legolas, I think
[23:37] <Vash> we saw: (globe):-.(r)
[23:37] <Harry_Red> Hi Clara
[23:37] <PiWi> Aragorn is a disappointment when not rugged
[23:37] <PiWi> Hi Clare - who are you?
[23:37] <SteveS> He'll be rugged again in a horse movie, soon.
[23:37] <CarolTLP> yEs, that is just what I saw! globe....
[23:37] <Vash> Clara is Carol's daughter
[23:37] <CarolTLP> clara is my 5 yo daughter
[23:38] <PiWi> Ah, hi clara!
[23:38] <Krenon> Clara Celeste Taylor Phillips to give her her full title.
[23:38] <CarolTLP> the second it a thoughtful smile, the third was a rianbow. Trilliam has different emoticons.
[23:38] <SteveS> Is she still wearing the Minnie Mouse ears? :-)
[23:38] <CarolTLP> :-)
[23:38] <PiWi> Oh, horse movie?
[23:38] <Harry_Red> Tell her HI for me Carol.
[23:38] <SteveS> Called Hidalgo.
[23:38] <PiWi> Sounds good...
[23:39] <Harry_Red> Ah well. I've got to sign out. Very tired here.
[23:39] <CarolTLP> Clara has a flaying cat named Celeste, and she addes that the rest of Celeste's name is Taylor Phillips Clara
[23:39] <SteveS> He's racing his horse in some Egyptian desert race, some time around the turn of the 20th century.
[23:39] <PiWi> Oh my, I really must go. My brain already left for bed...
[23:39] <CarolTLP> Yes, she is still wearing her Minnie mouse ears.
[23:39] <SteveS> :-)
[23:39] <PiWi> Bye guys!!!
[23:39] <Vash> me too.
[23:39] <CarolTLP> She did misplace them for a few days till I found them again for her.
[23:39] <Vash> Bye
[23:39] <PiWi> Loveley talking to youy all
[23:39] * Vash waves bye-bye to Vash *sob*Session Close: Sat Jan 03 23:39:44 2004