Chat Log: April 7th, 2012

[11:50] Akiraa has joined #knownspace
[12:47] #knownspace> SeanS: !chuck
[12:47] #knownspace> HAL9000: When Chuck Norris snores, he is not "sawing logs," he is "decimating thousands of acres of precious rainforest." [score=6.192]
[13:01] #knownspace> SeanS: .weather 40601
[13:01] #knownspace> Outsider: Clear ☼, 62.6℉ (17℃), 30.30in (1023mb), Light air 3kt (↻) - KLOU 16:53Z
[13:03] #knownspace> SeanS: Back online. had to reset the router a bit ago
[13:20] NickE has joined #knownspace
[13:40] #knownspace> NickE: evenin'
[14:01] Dan has joined #knownspace
[14:02] #knownspace> Dan: I'm here early because I might have to duck outdoors and help a guy load my dune buggy and Tri-Magnum onto a flatbed tow truck to get them out of my yard once and for all.
[14:02] #knownspace> Outsider: Dan: 06 Apr 15:55Z <Xenovalent> tell Dan "I hope you had a nice rest. And really, try the Linux thing I suggested."
[14:03] #knownspace> Dan: I've got a laptop loaded with Linux that I play with occasionally. I do give it an honest try, but it isn't the "Magic AI" that some linux users seem to believe it is. LOL!
[14:03] #knownspace> NickE: hi dan. eating atm, back in a bit
[14:04] #knownspace> Dan: No problem. I just didn't want to forget to log into the chat in time/
[14:04] #knownspace> Dan: It's rare that I have the day off from work when chat day rolls around each month.
[14:07] #knownspace> Dan: OK< the guys are here with the tow truck. Back in a few minutes...
[14:14] #knownspace> NickE: ah, back
[14:27] #knownspace> Akiraa: if you want pc gaming, you sort of have to pay the MS tax
[14:28] #knownspace> SeanS: many games run under wine
[14:29] #knownspace> Akiraa: still a lot of effort and tweaking
[14:30] #knownspace> Akiraa: in general, can't expect things to work right off the bat under wine
[14:33] #knownspace> SeanS: I dont game any more so i can only go by the app db on winehq
[14:33] Hippy has joined #knownspace
[14:33] #knownspace> NickE: morni' Hippy
[14:33] #knownspace> Hippy: And, after a false start, he arrives
[14:33] #knownspace> NickE: Hapy Easter
[14:33] #knownspace> Hippy: Morning, Nick. Yes, it will be a bright golden day on the meadow in a few hours :(
[14:34] #knownspace> Akiraa: have you watched "A universe from nothing"?
[14:34] #knownspace> Hippy: Thank you. I do feel like I've risen form the dead, yes
[14:34] #knownspace> Hippy: I've only just heard of it
[14:34] #knownspace> Hippy: Happy Easter to everyone :)
[14:34] #knownspace> NickE: not heard of it
[14:34] #knownspace> Hippy: May I change the topic?
[14:34] #knownspace> Akiraa: happy easter from a nonbeliever << :)
[14:35] #knownspace> NickE: go for it
[14:36] #knownspace> Dan: Dune buggy loaded on the truck and about to depart. They'll have to make another trip for the T-Mag.
[14:36] #knownspace> Hippy: Dan! Before you go
[14:37] #knownspace> Hippy: I sent you a story for. . .Aphelion, but was vouchsafed no reply
[14:37] #knownspace> Hippy: It's good to see, though, that if you read it, you survived it
[14:42] #knownspace> NickE: just off to put the chickens away, brb
[14:44] #knownspace> Akiraa: it's fascinating that Frank Herbert built his world out of a visit to the Oregon sand dunes
[14:46] #knownspace> Hippy: I didn't know that
[14:47] #knownspace> Hippy: Or there's the fog in Carpinteria that inspired the mist on Plateau
[14:52] Lensman has joined #knownspace
[14:52] #knownspace> Hippy: Afternoon, Lens
[14:52] #knownspace> Lensman: Hi, Hippy.
[14:52] #knownspace> NickE: hi Lens
[14:52] #knownspace> Hippy: Any tornadoes up your way?
[14:52] #knownspace> Lensman: Not today.
[14:53] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, that's good to hear
[14:53] #knownspace> Lensman: Not lately.
[14:54] #knownspace> Lensman: Is Sean here?
[14:55] #knownspace> NickE: on a beer run I think
[14:56] #knownspace> NickE: (Skype shows as away currently)
[14:56] #knownspace> Lensman: Sean: If you see this, I'd like a copy of last month's chat log, please!
[14:58] #knownspace> Hippy: I've probably got most of that
[14:58] #knownspace> Lensman: Would you, could you, e-mail that to me pls Hippy?
[15:00] #knownspace> Lensman: So how did everyone survive the Year Without a Winter?
[15:00] #knownspace> Lensman: Those of us north of the equator, anyway.
[15:01] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, it's a warm Autumn so far :)
[15:01] #knownspace> Hippy: No worries, Lens. I think I have your email address around somewhere
[15:01] #knownspace> Lensman: Was hot enough to turn on the A/C here last week. Talk about unseasonably warm!
[15:02] #knownspace> Lensman: Lensman at...
[15:02] #knownspace> Lensman: sunflower dot com
[15:03] #knownspace> Hippy: Cool. I'm searching the disk for it now
[15:03] #knownspace> Lensman: Thanks, Hippy.
[15:04] #knownspace> Lensman: I take it there has not been a Niven related topic yet?
[15:05] #knownspace> Hippy: What? Wha's that, chopped liver?
[15:06] #knownspace> Lensman: I think they ate pate in "Inconstant Moon".
[15:06] #knownspace> Hippy: Amazon says that the book titled above is by Niven, Pournelle and Barnes, so I just want to ask him if it is before i buy it
[15:06] #knownspace> Hippy: LOL!
[15:07] #knownspace> SeanS: I am here... was just knocking balls around the pool table
[15:07] #knownspace> Lensman: Oh, thanks for pointing out there is a topic, Hippy. Duh.
[15:09] #knownspace> SeanS: it is. its a novella
[15:09] #knownspace> Lensman: "A novella set before the events that unfold in BEOWULF'S CHILDREN."
[15:09] #knownspace> Lensman: Odd Larry never mentioned it here.
[15:11] #knownspace> Lensman: So would this be the first publication by Larry to appear in electronic form first?
[15:11] #knownspace> Hippy: Chat snet, Lens
[15:11] #knownspace> SeanS: Its on Jerry's website
[15:11] #knownspace> Lensman: "snet" ?
[15:12] #knownspace> Hippy: Er, yes.
[15:12] #knownspace> Hippy: It should be rarviring at your address any time now :)
[15:13] #knownspace> Lensman: Oh, "sent".
[15:13] #knownspace> Hippy: That's what it says, Sean, but I'm sceptical about ebooks
[15:13] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes. My typing is just terribly this last week or so
[15:13] #knownspace> Lensman: Sean: Do you mean it's mentioned on Jerry's website, or the entire story is posted there?
[15:13] #knownspace> SeanS: its mentioned with a link to amazon
[15:14] #knownspace> Lensman: Thank you, Hippy.
[15:14] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, if Jerry says it's real, I'll just nip off and get it
[15:15] #knownspace> SeanS:
[15:15] #knownspace> Hippy: Lens, there's that Rich Mann story on the site that I think only appears there, so that's kind of electronic form. Otherwise I'd say you were right that this is the first one tha appears first electronically
[15:16] #knownspace> Hippy: Now watch as it tells me I can't read it 'due to geographical limitations'
[15:16] #knownspace> Lensman: Sorry Hippy, but "The Color of Sunfire" appeared in BRIDGING THE GALAXIES.
[15:16] #knownspace> Lensman: Altho come to think of it, there are at least a couple of "exclusives" on the Worlds of Larry Niven site that don't appear elsewhere.
[15:18] #knownspace> Lensman: So we'd have to say that "The Secret of Blackship Island" is the first COMMERCIAL publication by Larry to have its "first printing" in electronic format.
[15:20] #knownspace> Hippy: That would do it
[15:20] #knownspace> Hippy: It conforms to all applicable laws and statutes :)
[15:20] #knownspace> Lensman: LOL
[15:22] #knownspace> Lensman: Reminds me of the sign outside the municipal swimming pool in Garden City, KS. When I was growing up, it said "The world's largest free swimming pool". Last time I was there, it said"The world's largest municipally owned outdoor concrete swimming pool".
[15:23] #knownspace> Hippy: Sounds like redefining 'free' in Orwellian terms
[15:23] #knownspace> Hippy: And of course, the idea of free swimming pools has gone by the wayside
[15:24] #knownspace> Hippy: The word 'free' could still be used in Newspeak, though only in its sense of 'municipally owned outdoor concrete'
[15:25] #knownspace> Dan: OK, I'm free of that obligation now.
[15:26] #knownspace> Dan: My dune buggy and Tri-Magnum are now officially "Someone Else's Problem."
[15:26] #knownspace> Lensman: I doubt it meant "free" as in inertialess. :)
[15:27] #knownspace> SeanS: congrats, dan
[15:27] #knownspace> Dan: In my case, "free" means that those junk heaps are no longer taking up space in my yard.
[15:27] #knownspace> Hippy: Perhaps they should've put their signs in Spanish. I see on Amazon that I can get 'Ringworld' and 'Ringworld's Children' in the original Spanish
[15:28] #knownspace> Dan: And I no longer have to hear my wife complain about theat particular mess.
[15:28] #knownspace> SeanS: I wish I could be as successful with the 13 foot boston whaler that we dont need but mom refuses to sell
[15:28] #knownspace> Lensman: How about the original Klingon, like Shakespeare?
[15:28] #knownspace> Hippy: If only, Lens, if only
[15:28] #knownspace> Lensman: Dan: Have I talked to you about your (former) Tri-Magnum?
[15:29] #knownspace> Hippy: I had thought of the oriiginal Sindarin, but after 'Cornardhon, na Larry Niven' you run into the problem of saying 'flicked' in Sindarin
[15:30] #knownspace> Hippy: Now, why would they skip the second and third books in the original Spanish? I assume 'Hijos de mundo anillo' translates as 'Ringworld's Children'?
[15:30] #knownspace> Dan: Lens, I don't recall if we have talked about it. Nice concept for a vehicle, mostly hand-built out of scraps of VW and motorcycle parts, but ultimately the one I had needed too may repairs that I couldn't afford.
[15:30] Larry has joined #knownspace
[15:30] #knownspace> Lensman: Did you ever get to drive it?
[15:30] #knownspace> Dan: Hello, Larry!
[15:30] #knownspace> Hippy: Hi, Larry!
[15:30] #knownspace> Lensman: HI LARRY!
[15:30] #knownspace> Larry: Hi all
[15:31] #knownspace> Larry: Drive what?
[15:31] #knownspace> NickE: Hi Larry
[15:31] #knownspace> Dan: Lens, I droveit around the house twice the day it was dlivered, then it broke down and never ran again.
[15:31] #knownspace> Lensman: Bummer.
[15:31] #knownspace> Lensman: Hey Larry, you've been holding out on us! I don't think you ever mentioned "The Secret of Blackship Island".
[15:32] #knownspace> Larry: okay, here's the tale--
[15:32] #knownspace> Dan: Larry, a R.Q. Riley design called a Tri-Magnum. VW front end welded to a motorcycle frame & engine, with a fiberglass sportscar body.
[15:33] #knownspace> Dan: Two wheels in front for steering, one wheel in back to push.
[15:33] #knownspace> Larry: Steven Barnes, Jerry Pournelle and I wrote two novels some years ago. THE LEGACY OF HEOROT and BEWULF'S CHILDREN.
[15:34] #knownspace> Larry: Now Eleanor Wood suggests we write a story set between the two novels. We talked it over, did some outlining, and got Jack Cohen involved.
[15:35] #knownspace> Lensman: Actually, considering the genre, that should have been " the original Esperanto."
[15:35] #knownspace> Larry: Jack knows life forms, with emphasis on fertility, and he's a rabid SF fan. He's been helping other writers generate aliens and ecologies, for a fee.
[15:35] #knownspace> Hippy: He did a good job on McCaffrey's dragons
[15:36] #knownspace> Larry: We got him to generate an alien for us, for the ocean off Avalon. We took it from there, with Steven doing first draft. Lots of interaction via
[15:37] #knownspace> NickE: cool
[15:37] #knownspace> Lensman: Did he advise McCaffrey on the prequel which tries to make them science fiction instead of science fantasy?
[15:37] #knownspace> Larry: I've forgotten the --there we go--via Skype set up in Jerry's office, three of us crowded in there talking to Jack.
[15:38] #knownspace> Dan:
[15:38] #knownspace> NickE: sounds like Skype teleconferences we do at work :-)
[15:38] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, she gives him thanks in Dragonsdawn, so I'd say yes
[15:38] #knownspace> SeanS: skype is great. I use it a lot.
[15:39] #knownspace> NickE: not so much with flaky African ISPs on ocassion
[15:39] #knownspace> Larry: Jack does talk about working on the Pern universe.
[15:39] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, yes! Nick, are you in Africa now?
[15:39] #knownspace> Lensman: Dragonsdawn, thanks, couldn't remember the title. Mildly enjoyable, altho I can't say it was really convincing. That is, it didn't convince me that the dragons are really SF and not science fantasy.
[15:39] #knownspace> NickE: not yet, about a months time fir 2 weeks
[15:40] #knownspace> Hippy: Ah. . .
[15:40] #knownspace> Lensman: Doesn't explain the psychic powers of teleporting and time travel, even if you buy the premises.
[15:41] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, no.
[15:41] #knownspace> NickE: mostly OK, but when you are Skyping Oxford, Daker and Kilifi, Kenya, it can get frustrating when the connection is dodgy
[15:41] #knownspace> NickE: Dakar, sorry (Senegal)
[15:41] #knownspace> Lensman: And interesting that the retcon has the dragons originally not being flame-breathers.
[15:41] #knownspace> NickE: nayway, when it owrks it's very handy
[15:42] #knownspace> Lensman: That's a pretty radical mutation to achieve by breeding!
[15:42] #knownspace> NickE: So where is Jack based?
[15:42] #knownspace> SeanS: I talk to Euan with it and its like we are in the same room but that is Kentucky to New Zealand. No Africa involvement.
[15:42] #knownspace> Hippy: That was set up in the first book, though. Anyway, this is n't a McCaffrey chat room, so let us return to Avalon
[15:43] #knownspace> Larry: Can't remember where Jack was calling from. I just assumed England.
[15:44] #knownspace> Larry: ALL THE WEYRS OF PERN, wasn't that where Jack got involved?
[15:44] #knownspace> Hippy: 'Dragonsdawn', I think, but you may be right, Larry
[15:44] #knownspace> Dan: Lensman -
[15:45] #knownspace> Hippy: Is 'No Exit' worth getting for the Kindle?
[15:46] #knownspace> SeanS: Its been years since I have read Pern. i think 'the story telling guy of Pern' was the last one
[15:46] #knownspace> Hippy: . . .which I pose as a general question since the author is here
[15:49] #knownspace> NickE: the biology of Avalon was always one of the more interesting aspects of the Heorot novels
[15:50] #knownspace> SeanS: yep
[15:50] #knownspace> NickE: in terms of providing a convincingkly alien background for teh characters ans story
[15:50] #knownspace> Lensman: "No Exit" is pretty cheap in electronic format, I give it a "Thumbs up".
[15:51] #knownspace> Hippy: Good enough. I think I'll pick up 'Oath of Fealty', too, since I would rate that as the most influential Niven (at least it influenced me)
[15:51] #knownspace> Larry: "No Exit" is trivial. How curious are you?
[15:51] #knownspace> Hippy: I'm probably more a completist than curious, Larry
[15:52] #knownspace> Hippy: "A Gift from Earth" is at, too, I saw the other day
[15:53] #knownspace> SeanS: dang you Hippy... ;) you said Oath of Fealty, I looked up at the shelf and didnt see it. now I have to wander around the house looking for it.
[15:54] #knownspace> Hippy: Grrr! I just bought two Larry Nivens, Amazon, why the hell would I be interested in some idiot teen romance from some squawking English major in Nantucket?
[15:54] EML has joined #knownspace
[15:54] #knownspace> Hippy: Hi, Ed
[15:54] #knownspace> EML: Hi all.
[15:54] #knownspace> Larry: Jerry and I have run several electronic works through Amazon. I'm old: contracts lapse.
[15:54] #knownspace> Lensman: "No Exit" is a curiosity. As I recall, Larry said he couldn't come up with an ending for the story, and gave or sold it to Hank Stine to complete. That was before Stine's sex change operation, which is why now the co-author is listed as "Jean Marie Stine".
[15:54] #knownspace> Dan: Someone has borrowed my copy too, Sean. I'll have to buy yet another copy...
[15:54] #knownspace> Dan: Hi, Ed!
[15:55] #knownspace> SeanS: found it. upstairs bedroom
[15:55] #knownspace> EML: I upgraded browser versions today. Wish me luck staying connected.
[15:56] #knownspace> SeanS: good luck
[15:56] #knownspace> Hippy: May the browser gods smile
[15:56] #knownspace> Larry: An author's name is a brand name. It shouldn't change just because author got married--or changed gender.
[15:56] #knownspace> Lensman: We have company for Easter dinner (yes I know, our calendar is broken). Will have to leave in a bit.
[15:57] #knownspace> Hippy: Nice to see you, anyway, Lens
[15:57] #knownspace> Lensman: I hope I got that name right... Hank Stine. I've got the original magazine publication. Or used to have it; last time I looked, I couldn't find it.
[15:57] #knownspace> Larry: I've got a houseful of SCIFI honchos. Probably wiill join them in a bit.
[15:57] #knownspace> Lensman: Seems appropriate, considering the story...
[15:58] #knownspace> Dan: Larry, if an author changes gender, shouldn't they have a right to insist on the new name to reflect that change? Wendy Carlos allowed her work as Walter to stand under than name while publishing her new music as Wendy.
[15:58] #knownspace> Lensman: Thanks Hippy.
[15:58] #knownspace> Hippy: Wally Stott to Angela Morely
[15:58] #knownspace> Lensman: Nice to see your typeface too! :D
[15:58] #knownspace> Hippy: Morley
[15:58] #knownspace> EML: changing authorship after the fact must drive librarians crazy.
[15:58] #knownspace> Hippy: Exactly, Ed!
[15:59] #knownspace> Lensman: Gotta go. Bye and thanks for the chat!
[15:59] #knownspace> EML: Bye, Lens.
[15:59] #knownspace> Larry: yes, Ed.
[15:59] #knownspace> Dan: I'm sue it wouldm Ed. But filing the books by the two names side by side seems sensible to me. But then, I'm not a librarian.
[15:59] #knownspace> SeanS: bye Lensman
[15:59] #knownspace> Dan: Bye. Lens!
[16:00] #knownspace> Hippy: What I object to is the sort of revisionism that then goes on. Angela Morley's biography keeps saying 'she' when talking about the 1940's, when of course a male saxophonist wasn't remarkable at all
[16:00] #knownspace> Larry: new work, new name: OK. But I wrote that story with Hank Stine.
[16:01] #knownspace> Hippy: Now, this raises a queston about Jerry Pournelle's daughter
[16:01] #knownspace> Hippy: All the bios I've read says he has four sons, but now this daughter comes in
[16:01] #knownspace> EML: I have a deal for you, Larry: I won't change my name and you won't change yours :-)
[16:01] #knownspace> Dan: I bow to your preferences, Larry. I see your point now that you phrased it that way.
[16:02] #knownspace> Larry: Deal,
[16:02] #knownspace> Larry: ed.
[16:02] #knownspace> SeanS: lol
[16:03] #knownspace> Larry: Jerry's daughter is from a previous marriage. And she wrote a sequel to the Mote stories without our input (or knowledge! Surprise!)
[16:03] #knownspace> EML: While everyone is struck speechless, a tidbit: I recently had to move to a new website. If you're curious, it's
[16:03] #knownspace> Dan: OK, we'll hold you two to tha deal. If ever either or both of you decide to change genders, you'll still be two ladies named "Larry & Ed."
[16:04] #knownspace> EML: Dan: ouch!
[16:04] #knownspace> Hippy: Thanks, Larry. I can now buy 'Outies' confident that it's the real deal
[16:04] #knownspace> Dan: I'm tryig not to fall out of my chair giggling like a madman.
[16:04] #knownspace> SeanS: that was funny
[16:06] #knownspace> Dan: Sometimes my penchant for levity gets the better of my common sense. I do hope I didn't offend, but I'm helpless against the power of my mind to creat silly stuff on a whim. :)
[16:07] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, I wasn't offended, but then, I'm wearing a dress
[16:07] #knownspace> Larry: I am sometimes disturbed by what my mind comes up with. As "Bordered in Black".
[16:07] #knownspace> Dan: It's a small mind, but I'm comfortable living within it.
[16:08] #knownspace> Dan: Larry, BIB is a freaking *scarey* story!
[16:08] #knownspace> SeanS: bordered in black was kind of eerie
[16:09] #knownspace> Hippy: That's creepy, but I also think 'Organleggers aren't sadists. They don't have that much respect for the stuff' is even creepier
[16:09] #knownspace> Dan: I could so easily see it as Twilight Zone or Outer Limits teleplay.
[16:09] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, with Steven Banres writing it!
[16:10] #knownspace> Larry: Yeah, Steven writes horror better than I do.
[16:10] #knownspace> Larry: I freaked him out once, though. Rewriting a death scene set in free fall.
[16:11] #knownspace> Dan: *Everyone* writes horror better than *I* do! I alway come off sounding like Lovecraft on quaaludes when I attempt anything in the Horror genre.
[16:11] #knownspace> EML: Not a hanging :-) ?
[16:11] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, 'Descent of Anansi'?
[16:11] #knownspace> Larry: Yeah.
[16:12] #knownspace> Hippy: Yes, that was a good one. Watching that wire come at you and nothing you can do about it. . .
[16:12] #knownspace> SeanS: I remember reading Descent but dont remember the story.
[16:13] #knownspace> Dan: Oh, still no word from the publisher my spaceport bar series was submitted to. But he did appologise to me in person at the last convention we both attended for not haveing had time to read it yet. *HE* brought it up. I wasn't going to mention it!
[16:14] #knownspace> Hippy: Speaking of which, I sent something to Aphelion webzine
[16:14] #knownspace> Larry: I love most spaceport bar stories.
[16:15] #knownspace> SeanS: as the crossroads of the races and spacelanes of the galaxy, they are usually very fun.
[16:15] #knownspace> EML: "We don't serve your kind," the bartender said.
[16:15] #knownspace> EML: A tachyon walked (rapidly) into a spaceport bar ...
[16:15] #knownspace> Hippy: "Pity, we're a cannibal species"
[16:17] #knownspace> SeanS: heh
[16:18] #knownspace> Dan: Hippy! I do hope the editor you sent it to finds your story acceptable. I'm only the publisher, so I won't see it until the editor makes his decision.
[16:18] #knownspace> Hippy: Oh, I see. Sorry about that. I thought the email address for those bar stories was yours
[16:19] #knownspace> Dan: yeah, I do edit the bar stories myself. It's *MY* bar! LOL!
[16:19] #knownspace> SeanS: I did not know that aphelion was so diversified.
[16:19] #knownspace> Dan: I didn't get your submission. Send it to me at and I will.
[16:20] #knownspace> Hippy: Thank you! I will send it off with pathetic urgency :)
[16:22] #knownspace> Dan: Sean, I give my staff free reign. They accept what they feel our readers will enjoy, I pay for the webspace. I only edit the submissions to my spaceport bar shared universe series, and whatever horror stories get submitted. And the horror stuff is only because none of the staff feel comfortable reading horror.
[16:22] #knownspace> SeanS: ah
[16:22] #knownspace> Larry: Introduction: yes, Hippy
[16:24] #knownspace> SeanS: my 3rd edition has no introduction. It starts with the prologue The Invaders.
[16:24] #knownspace> Larry: The Intro to OATH is new.
[16:24] #knownspace> SeanS: ah
[16:24] #knownspace> Larry: Or newish or part new. I forget.
[16:25] #knownspace> Hippy: Excellent. I was keen to read that intro
[16:25] #knownspace> Dan: Larry, my spaceport bar won't conflict with Draco's Tavern in the least. Spider Robinson might possibly, on a bad day, get miffed, but my bar is different enough from yours so that readers won't ever think I was copying you.
[16:26] #knownspace> SeanS: well, I am now as well. guess I will have to find a bookstore... they get fewer all the time in favor of ebooks
[16:26] #knownspace> Dan: Mine is more like "For A Foggy Night" and The Fourth Profession" than your Draco series.
[16:26] #knownspace> Hippy: But you have a Kindle, Sean
[16:27] #knownspace> SeanS: I know and I love the Kindle. Nothing like having a book in your hand tho.
[16:27] #knownspace> Hippy: Well, yes
[16:27] #knownspace> Hippy: And there are no 'geographical restrictions'' on an actual book
[16:28] #knownspace> Hippy: And England is just as bad!
[16:30] #knownspace> SeanS: the amazing thing about the kindle is you can read it in full sunlight. too scared of dropping the thing to take it out on the boat tho
[16:31] #knownspace> Dan: Hippy, enjoy viviting England, but only my wife wants us to move there! I wouldn't bee allowed to drive, or own my firearms collection, or my sword collection... But I do like going there to visit!
[16:31] #knownspace> Hippy: They'll handle a bit of dampness, like steam or mist or whatever, but not a dunking I woulnd' think
[16:31] #knownspace> EML: a B/W Kindle. The Kindle Fire is backlit, so it (logic tells me -- I don't own one) be washed out in bright sunlight.
[16:31] #knownspace> SeanS: pretty sure it would be hard to read under 20 feet of water. ;)
[16:32] #knownspace> Hippy: It's a nice place to visit, but try buying anything ebookish from there
[16:32] #knownspace> Dan: Sean, a kindle is like a towel, drop it in the water and it'll sink out of sight forever.
[16:32] #knownspace> Hippy: I haven't tried my Fire in sunlight yet, but you're probably right, Ed
[16:32] #knownspace> SeanS: true... you can use a towel as an anchor if you forget one
[16:33] #knownspace> Hippy: Dan, why wouldn't you be allowed to drive in England?
[16:33] #knownspace> SeanS: i have the kindle touch. my cousin tells me the kindle fire is not nearly as good for reading books.
[16:33] #knownspace> Dan: Hippy, Sean, I use my Netbook when I'm over there. All the benefits of a laptop, at a third the weight.
[16:34] #knownspace> Hippy: I find the screens on those things too small to read
[16:34] #knownspace> Dan: Hippy, I'm too used to driving in the US to be able to pass a driver's exam in England. I can drive anything with wheels, but not on the wrong side of the road, and not through a roundabout! LOL!
[16:35] #knownspace> SeanS: i guess The Secret of Blackship Island' will be my first purchase for the Kindle. Everything has come from the library or project Gutenberg so far.
[16:35] #knownspace> Hippy: LOL!! It's apparently easier than you think, Dan
[16:35] #knownspace> SeanS: roundabouts are easy
[16:36] #knownspace> Hippy: My sister had no trouble adapting to your post-Napoleonic habits when she was in California
[16:37] #knownspace> Hippy: I hunted around till I found all the 'Wizardry' books in e-format
[16:38] #knownspace> SeanS: wizardry books?
[16:38] #knownspace> Hippy: Rick Cook. "The Wizard's Bane" et al
[16:38] #knownspace> Hippy: You haven't heard of them?
[16:39] #knownspace> SeanS: dont think i have read those.
[16:39] #knownspace> Dan: Oh, I've been a passenger in cars in England many times. I find the custom of pulling over to allow oncomming traffic to pass on a road that is narrower than a VW microbus to be so culture-specific as to be inscrutable. Should I bull ahead and make the oncomming car pull over, or does whichever car that can find a place to pull over first give up the right of way? LOL!
[16:39] #knownspace> Hippy: I see your point, Dan
[16:40] #knownspace> Dan: As it stands, I wouldn't attempt English traffic with any vehicle wider than a motorcycle!
[16:40] #knownspace> Hippy: The Wiz books are good fun. Not hard SF in the sense of physics, but the premise is worked out logically and that's always a good thing
[16:41] #knownspace> SeanS: in Grand Cayman people will stop and back up traffic to let an oncoming car turn in front of them. pretty neighborly.
[16:41] #knownspace> Hippy: Have you been there? What's it like?
[16:42] #knownspace> SeanS: just for a short time off a cruise ship
[16:42] #knownspace> SeanS: not enough time to get a feel for a whole island culture
[16:43] #knownspace> SeanS: tho i did see that and it was odd enough to stick in my brain for 12 years
[16:43] #knownspace> Dan: Sean, English secondary roard are frequently *less* than one car wide! And there is parking on both sides! The oly parallel I can draw is football game traffic in a small college town in the US.
[16:43] #knownspace> Dan: Secondary roads
[16:44] #knownspace> SeanS: gotcha
[16:45] #knownspace> SeanS: I have not been to England but would very much like to go pubbing with a few people over there. ;)
[16:45] #knownspace> NickE: oh yeah @=_
[16:45] #knownspace> Dan: English traffic would scare the nads off of the Marquis De Sade!
[16:46] #knownspace> Akiraa: everything going in the wrong direction?
[16:46] #knownspace> Akiraa: would scare me too!
[16:46] #knownspace> NickE: Nah, Indian traffic on teh other hand
[16:46] #knownspace> NickE: (been told)
[16:47] #knownspace> Dan: Yes, and everyone expecting their brakes to work at 100% every minute. Atlanta and Knoxvile rush hour traffic is far less frightening.
[16:47] #knownspace> EML: OTOH, the subway (Tube) and trains in England are quite civilized.
[16:47] #knownspace> SeanS: if they are not on strike ;)
[16:47] #knownspace> Dan: Oh, I love the trains in England, Ed!
[16:47] #knownspace> NickE: thats true
[16:48] #knownspace> SeanS: the last time I went through Atlanta I had to drive 90+ to keep from being run over but that was on I-75
[16:49] #knownspace> Dan: Buy a ticket, then buy a sandwich, crisps, and a beer from the fellow with the tea trolley on the train? What's not to love?
[16:49] #knownspace> SeanS: crisps being chips?
[16:49] #knownspace> NickE: yes
[16:49] #knownspace> Dan: I wish we had a train from Athens to Atlanta.
[16:49] #knownspace> Hippy: They didnt' have that when I was there!
[16:49] #knownspace> SeanS: like chips being fries?
[16:49] #knownspace> NickE: yes
[16:50] #knownspace> NickE: kee up!
[16:50] #knownspace> Dan: My wife is English, I've been educated.
[16:50] #knownspace> Dan: LOL!
[16:50] #knownspace> Larry: Sounds like Harry Potter to me, but I'm American.
[16:50] #knownspace> Hippy: In a hundred years or so these vocab differences will be so great we won't be able to understanad each other
[16:50] #knownspace> NickE: train sandwiches OTOH have a long and noble history of being inedible
[16:51] #knownspace> SeanS: I watch a lot of British TV
[16:51] #knownspace> SeanS: some things come through in context
[16:51] #knownspace> EML: train food I had in England was pretty bad, but no worse than plane food.
[16:52] #knownspace> NickE: yeah it's about teh same level of crapness
[16:52] #knownspace> NickE