Chat Log: May 5th 2007

Session Start: Sat May 05 08:28:11 2007

[08:28] * Now talking in #knownspace

[08:28] * Topic is 'Happy Birthday, Larry!!_'

[08:28] * Set by Sean on Mon Apr 30 14:55:56

[08:28] * Retrieving #knownspace modes...

[08:29] * Sean changes topic to 'In Loving Memory of Frank Gasperik. RIP, my friend._'

[08:29] * Sean raises a cup of coffee in toast

[08:30] <Sean> the brandy will come later

[08:30] * Sean is now known as SeanLog

[09:03] * SeanS sets mode: +o InvisibleDragon

[09:06] <InvisibleDragon> Hello. ANyone awake?

[09:14] <InvisibleDragon> It seems so empty here without Frank.

[09:20] <SeanLog> sure does

[09:21] <SeanLog> how is the topic?

[09:24] <SeanS> give me a buzz for a couple minutes of convo 502-xxx-xxxx

[09:33] <SeanS> off to keeneland to place bets on the kentucky derby. that number is a cell so you can still call if you wish

[10:33] * CatPasswd has joined #knownspace

[10:40] * UncleNasty has joined #knownspace

[10:40] <UncleNasty> hey all

[10:49] * Lensman has joined #knownspace

[10:54] * growler has joined #knownspace

[10:56] <growler> ping?

[10:56] <UncleNasty> pong

[10:56] <UncleNasty> how goes it growler?

[10:56] <growler> not well for some, sadly

[10:57] <UncleNasty> no kidding

[10:59] <growler> just saw the new Spiderman movie

[10:59] <UncleNasty> same here

[11:00] <UncleNasty> suffering from batman syndrome

[11:00] <UncleNasty> venom was done nicely, though

[11:00] <UncleNasty> as was sandman

[11:01] <UncleNasty> back in a bit

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[14:59] * Agincourtdb has joined #knownspace

[14:59] <Agincourtdb> Hi all

[15:01] <SeanS> hi

[15:02] <Agincourtdb> Just woke up

[15:02] <SeanS> just got in from running errands

[15:03] <SeanS> leaving for a derby party in about an hour and a half

[15:03] <Agincourtdb> got a big hat?

[15:03] <SeanS> nah

[15:03] <Agincourtdb> oh, wait, that's just girls

[15:03] <SeanS> right

[15:04] <SeanS> i live in kentucky so it is kind of mandatory that i be at a derby party

[15:04] <Agincourtdb> right

[15:04] <Agincourtdb> being a marylander I will be going to at least one crab feast

[15:04] <SeanS> its written into the state constitution i think

[15:04] <Agincourtdb> same basic idea

[15:05] <Agincourtdb> well I reread the end of Footfall, like I said

[15:05] <Agincourtdb> and what sticks in my head is,

[15:05] <Agincourtdb> "All this just to wear a pressure suit"

[15:05] <Agincourtdb> :-)

[15:06] <SeanS> hehe

[15:10] * Agincourt has joined #knownspace

[15:10] <Agincourt> I dropped

[15:10] <Agincourt> wifi connection

[15:11] * Agincourtdb has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer_)

[15:11] <SeanS> i just fired off a header download but dont think it affects irc at all

[15:17] <SeanS> hmmm, spiderman 3

[15:17] <Agincourt> I hear it's not very good

[15:17] <SeanS> there was some commentary earlier...

[15:18] <SeanS> <growler> just saw the new Spiderman movie

[15:18] <SeanS> <UncleNasty> same here

[15:18] <SeanS> <UncleNasty> suffering from batman syndrome

[15:18] <SeanS> <UncleNasty> venom was done nicely, though

[15:18] <SeanS> <UncleNasty> as was sandman

[15:18] <SeanS> <UncleNasty> back in a bit

[15:18] <Agincourt> thats almost exactly what my friend said

[15:18] <Agincourt> the bad guy effects were good, but that otherwise they tried to do to much

[15:18] <Agincourt> and it doesn't work

[15:19] <SeanS> pulling now, will probably watch it in the morning

[15:19] <SeanS> oos, dr who will take precedence in the morning

[15:19] <SeanS> oops

[15:20] <Agincourt> evervyone else afk?

[15:20] <SeanS> apparently

[15:21] <Agincourt> I have to read allyn's blog

[15:21] <SeanS> its pretty good

[15:24] <Agincourt> yeah

[15:25] <Agincourt> My gig last night went well

[15:31] <SeanS> good deal

[15:32] <SeanS> need to beam upstairs for a medical emergency.... gf cut her leg shaving

[15:32] <Agincourt> k

[15:37] * Agincourt wanders around the room alone, examining the plastic potted plants

[15:37] * Agincourt is now known as AgincourtDB

[15:37] * AgincourtDB notices and fixes his nick

[16:10] <AgincourtDB> cool

[16:10] <AgincourtDB> because I'm not sure mine is logging even though I set it to

[16:10] <AgincourtDB> It may require restart or something

[16:11] <SeanS> amazing it can get disconnected when it is on the lan with the irc server

[16:11] <SeanS> what client are you using?

[16:11] <AgincourtDB> mirc

[16:11] <SeanS> it starts logging immediately

[16:11] <AgincourtDB> oh ok

[16:11] <AgincourtDB> it just doesnt write to file yet?

[16:12] <SeanS> it should write to #knownspace in the logs subdirectory

[16:12] <AgincourtDB> yeah there's nothing thered

[16:12] <SeanS> hmm

[16:13] <SeanS> let me go to the other room

[16:14] <SeanLog> this is set to automatically log channels

[16:14] <SeanLog> lock log files

[16:14] <AgincourtDB> well as long as you're logging it doesnt matter

[16:14] <SeanLog> and timestamp logs

[16:14] <SeanLog> thats it really

[16:14] <SeanLog> oh, and this is mirc

[16:14] <AgincourtDB> k

[16:24] * Treehug has joined #knownspace

[16:25] <Treehug> Hey all

[16:25] * nick_danger has joined #knownspace

[16:25] <AgincourtDB> hi

[16:26] <AgincourtDB> it's a little quiet in here

[16:26] <Treehug> Yeah.

[16:27] <AgincourtDB> it's a no-chatting chat room

[16:28] <Treehug> What's to say? I wish I'd gotten to meet Frank. I don't know what he was like in person, but I liked what I knew of him from here and the List.

[16:28] <AgincourtDB> yeah

[16:29] <SeanS> i talked to him voice all the time

[16:29] <SeanS> him and peggy both

[16:29] * allyngibson has joined #knownspace

[16:31] <Treehug> I'm trying to work out what books or stories he was in, besides Footfall, Lucifer's Hammer, and Fallen Angels.

[16:31] <allyngibson> hello all

[16:32] <SeanS> hi allyn

[16:32] <Treehug> Hi Allyn

[16:32] <AgincourtDB> hi

[16:33] <allyngibson> sorry, I'd forgotten completely about the chat :/

[16:33] <Treehug> I had something to do this afternoon that I could not get out of. Did I miss much, or has it been this quiet?

[16:33] <SeanS> its been very quiet

[16:33] <SeanS> carol phillips said she might pop in for 10 minutes every now and then

[16:37] <Treehug> I googled Frank, got some interesting things. Couple of articles he wrote, many mentions of him at other sites.

[16:38] <AgincourtDB> http://www.boston-baden.com/hazel/Pix/A/frankgasperik.htm

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[16:40] <AgincourtDB> http://www.locusmag.com/index/s292.html

[16:40] <Treehug> I like that photo at boston-baden, but when you click on it for full size, it says file not found.

[16:41] * allyngibson has quit IRC (Ping timeout_)

[16:42] <AgincourtDB> yeah

[16:42] <AgincourtDB> http://home.earthlink.net/~sidebrnz/car.html

[16:44] <Treehug> http://www.zarthani.net/Images/gasperik.pdf

[16:45] <SeanS> well fellows, i hate to leave good company but i must be off to a kentucky derby party

[16:45] <Treehug> Ah, the equest -- equester -- the horses!

[16:46] <SeanS> yeppers

[16:46] <SeanS> cheer hard for the 8 horse 'hard spun'

[16:46] <Treehug> Here's a tip for the races: don't lose.

[16:46] <SeanS> i will keep that in mind ;)

[16:46] <SeanS> later everyone

[16:46] <Treehug> bye

[16:46] * SeanS is now known as SeanAway

[16:47] <Treehug> Tanj. Frank was unique, and we'll not see another one like him.

[16:48] <Treehug> However, I suspect we will continue to see him in books!

[16:49] <AgincourtDB> http://www.smithway.org/fanpix/lasfs/lasfs.html

[16:50] * EML has joined #knownspace

[16:51] <AgincourtDB> hi

[16:51] <EML> _12Memory of Frank? I didn't know. Was it sudden?

[16:51] <Treehug> Somewhat unexpected. We had hoped he was getting better.

[16:52] <EML> _12I'm very sorry to hear the news.

[16:53] <Treehug> He's been in hospital for a couple of weeks, and had apparently been stable. Then suddenly he wasn't.

[16:53] <EML> _12I only knew him for a short time, a few emails and recent chats, but I liked him a lot. He seemed quite the gentleman.

[16:53] <AgincourtDB> In my google for frank I have discovered a PDF of Ringworld in, like, Hungarian or Czech or something

[16:54] <Treehug> He was a unique character.

[16:54] <AgincourtDB> oop, no it's RE

[16:54] <AgincourtDB> http://www.pity.rwan.org/larry/prstenec2.pdf

[16:54] <Treehug> Well, hard to tell in Czech.

[16:54] <AgincourtDB> exactly

[16:54] <AgincourtDB> It might be polish

[16:55] <EML> _12How old was Frank?

[16:56] * vilstef has joined #knownspace

[16:56] <vilstef> Hello all

[16:57] <Treehug> According to his 2003 bio for loscon, he was 250 then. He was born in 1942.

[16:57] <Treehug> 65 then.

[16:57] <AgincourtDB> hey vilstef

[16:57] <vilstef> HI!

[16:58] <EML> _12thanks, treehug

[16:58] <Treehug> No, wait, that was something else, maybe lasfs, wher he put his age at 250.

[16:59] <AgincourtDB> http://home.earthlink.net/~felix33/

[17:00] <Treehug> I always wondered, why "felix"?

[17:02] <vilstef> I've wondered that too.

[17:06] <AgincourtDB> anybody know what time the formal chat started/starts?

[17:08] <AgincourtDB> well, those were all the links I found in 36 pages of 'Gasperik'

[17:08] <AgincourtDB> that were at all relevant

[17:09] <AgincourtDB> there were a couple references to his and Leslie's story in Locus, in a couple different languages

[17:09] <Treehug> I believe it started about two hours ago, if I've not got my time zones mixed again.

[17:09] <AgincourtDB> I'm in EST

[17:09] <Treehug> Me too.

[17:10] <AgincourtDB> k

[17:10] <Treehug> I have never been able to get the start time right. I'm either 30 minutes early or late.

[17:10] <EML> _12Since Frank organized these chats, it's a tricky question. That said, isn't 1 PT the customary First Saturday start time?

[17:10] <vilstef> I'm in central. Just signed on after taking the younger daughter to lunch & going to comic store for free comic book day.

[17:10] <Treehug> Doesn't help that Saturday afternoon is usually my errand-running time.

[17:11] <Treehug> Crap in a hat, I forgot free comic day! Ah, well.

[17:12] <vilstef> Got a really interesting one. Peanuts strips which weren't reprinted in collections.

[17:12] <EML> _12also Derby Day, for you CDT types.

[17:16] <nick_danger> hi guys

[17:18] <Treehug> Hey Nick

[17:18] <EML> _12Hi, Nick

[17:18] <vilstef> Hello, Nick

[17:18] <nick_danger> hi.

[17:18] <Treehug> Just read Allyn's web page on Frank. Very well said. http://www.allyngibson.net/?p=1118

[17:21] <AgincourtDB> yeah

[17:33] <Treehug> Folks, I have to go. Got one more errand, then dinner. Later this evening, I intend to sit down with Footfall and a large cold drink.

[17:34] <EML> _12I guess I'll head out.

[17:34] <Treehug> See you all on the List!

[17:34] * EML has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*_)

[17:34] * Treehug has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*_)

[17:38] <vilstef> <crickets>

[17:39] <AgincourtDB> I'm blogging

[17:40] <AgincourtDB> about last night's show, and frank

[17:40] <nick_danger> i'm watching father ted. to try and take my mind off things.

[17:41] <nick_danger> damn. it's over now and I don't have any more.

[17:42] <vilstef> I'm checking downloads, listening to a new cd and contemplating a nap

[17:43] <nick_danger> need to work on the blogging software. there is always something more to fix

[17:43] <AgincourtDB> i just use livejournal

[17:44] <nick_danger> i wrote my own

[17:44] <AgincourtDB> cool

[17:44] <AgincourtDB> i usually post using semagic

[17:44] <nick_danger> check out the new logo for the blog (which I never update)

[17:44] <nick_danger> www.thisistheshit.org

[17:44] <AgincourtDB> lol

[17:45] <nick_danger> my new roommate did it. he's working on the pimp my mao site

[17:45] <nick_danger> that should be up soon. then larryniven.org can be banned in china.

[17:45] <AgincourtDB> lol

[17:45] <nick_danger> frank would have liked that. he thought it was a funny idea.

[17:45] * Fred has joined #knownspace

[17:46] * nick_danger wonders who he's going to argue with now.

[17:46] <Fred> _02_I'll argue with you

[17:46] <nick_danger> ok.

[17:46] <Fred> _02_GLOBAL WARMING IS A CROCK

[17:46] <nick_danger> heh.

[17:46] <Fred> _02_:)

[17:47] <nick_danger> global warming is caused by republicans!

[17:47] <nick_danger> all that hot air

[17:47] <Fred> _02_Saving the world from the next ice age, obNiven Fallen Angels

[17:48] <nick_danger> heh. that was a good book

[17:48] <Fred> _02_Yep. I need to reread that again someday.

[17:49] <Fred> _02_Next time AlGore 'testifies' before Congress, we should have Larry read Angels as a rebuttal :D

[17:49] <vilstef> At last, a good rationale for global warming!

[17:49] <nick_danger> might be nice here. more like the algarve

[17:52] <nick_danger> matt daemon is broken... or i'd set him loose in here

[17:55] <nick_danger> http://home.earthlink.net/~sidebrnz/car.html

[17:55] <nick_danger> I think we need to collect all this stuff.

[17:56] <Fred> _02_so, since I pre-ordered FLEET OF WORLDS, Amazon.com is drowning me in suggestions for other science fiction novels

[17:56] <nick_danger> is that up for pre-order?? I have my $10 gift certificate (payment from them for larryniven.org) to spend

[17:57] * nick_danger can't wait to read a new known space book!

[17:57] <nick_danger> how much is it?

[17:57] <Fred> _02_hang on, I'll pull up my order

[17:58] <Fred> _02_http://www.amazon.com/Fleet-Worlds-Larry-Niven/dp/0765318253

[17:58] <Fred> _02_$16.47

[18:00] <nick_danger> ok. i'll put my ten bucks down on it

[18:00] <Fred> _02_heh. $6.47 total. Well worth it!

[18:00] <nick_danger> oh yeah. i've waited years for some more ks stuff

[18:01] <nick_danger> kind fitting to spend larry niven money on larry niven

[18:02] <vilstef> Good idea-I like it.

[18:02] <nick_danger> i have to get the other computer (my mac is being used as a tv)

[18:03] <Fred> _02_Patrimony

[18:03] <AgincourtDB> about the only thing Macs are good for

[18:03] * AgincourtDB ducks

[18:03] <Fred> _02_Recommended because you purchased Fleet of Worlds

[18:06] * the_lorax has joined #knownspace

[18:07] <the_lorax> ok. i've changed identies

[18:07] * AgincourtDB is done blogging

[18:08] <Fred> _02_The Accidental Time Machine

[18:08] <Fred> _02_Recommended because you purchased Fleet of Worlds

[18:09] <AgincourtDB> http://agincourtdb.livejournal.com/

[18:09] <Fred> _02_they only tossed a couple at me today

[18:09] <the_lorax> isn't there a button to turn off their spam on their site or something

[18:10] <vilstef> Better than a bunch of paypal phishing spam.

[18:10] <Fred> _02_oh, sure, or I can just tell it not to send me stuff based on FLEET OF WORLDS

[18:10] <Fred> _02_but frankly, their guesses are remarkably good

[18:10] <AgincourtDB> yeah, i've ended up buying stuff that's been recommended

[18:10] <AgincourtDB> at least in music

[18:11] <Fred> _02_they just suggested 2 things I just ordered for my Mom for Mother's Day

[18:11] <the_lorax> i wonder how the software that guesses your preferences works

[18:11] <vilstef> I've never bought anything from amazon, I use their site for research. Lots of stuff they recommend I already have.

[18:11] <Fred> _02_The scariest recommendation they made: When the new series PLANET EARTH debuted, in HiDef, I ordered a 500gb eSATA for our DVR

[18:12] <Fred> _02_figuring I wanted to record the whole series

[18:12] <AgincourtDB> I find amazon's prices lower than retail, and it's the best place to order used stuff

[18:12] <AgincourtDB> most of what I buy through them are used cds

[18:12] <the_lorax> heh. i had to buy one of those to hold all my episodes of mystery science theatre 3000

[18:12] <Fred> _02_Later, Amazon recommended that I buy the HD release of PLANET EARTH - based on the fact that I bought the eSATA drive

[18:12] <AgincourtDB> lol

[18:13] <the_lorax> heh

[18:13] <AgincourtDB> that's a theramin soundtrack moment if I ever heard one

[18:13] <Fred> _02_heh, there's a 135gb torrent of MST3K; every episode but the first season

[18:13] <Fred> _02_If I had the drive space I'd get it

[18:13] <the_lorax> really? they must be compressed to buggery!

[18:13] <the_lorax> because I have about 60 of them, and it's taking up about 100 gb

[18:13] <AgincourtDB> the MST3k DVDs are outrageously expensive

[18:14] <Fred> _02_I've yet to buy one but I give them as gifts

[18:14] <the_lorax> they have to get rights to the movies again. they didn't get the dvd rights when they made the show

[18:14] <Fred> _02_people look wistful when they open them :)

[18:14] <AgincourtDB> yeah

[18:14] <Fred> _02_they don't even have broadcast rights to most of the movies any more

[18:14] <AgincourtDB> its just, that's one of the series I'd like to collect, and I don't have a couple thousand dollars to spend on it

[18:15] <the_lorax> now mao has a doctor suess hat

[18:15] <vilstef> The Geriatricat in the Hat?

[18:16] * the_lorax nods at vilstef

[18:16] <the_lorax> the mass murderer in a hat

[18:16] <Fred> _02_The Execution Channel The Execution Channel

[18:16] <Fred> _02_Settling Accounts In at the Death (Settling Accounts) Settling Accounts In at the Death (Settling Accounts)

[18:16] <Fred> _02_ecommended because you purchased Fleet of Worlds

[18:16] <vilstef> History Channel Hitler Channel

[18:17] <Fred> _02_The annoying thing is, they don't recommend any NIVEN

[18:17] <vilstef> Do they recommend anything that's hard science fiction?

[18:18] <the_lorax> if you order niven, they should recommend aliastar reynolds

[18:18] <Fred> _02_no idea; I'm not familar with most of what they recommend

[18:18] <Fred> _02_you'd think they'd try and sell me Niven and Pournelle at least

[18:19] <vilstef> If you're of the demographic which will buy new Niven, maybe they figure you have lots of old Niven.

[18:19] <the_lorax> i don't know how much figuring they do, and how much figuring that some brainless piece of software does.

[18:19] <AgincourtDB> you cann add stuff to the list of what they look at to recommend you other stuff

[18:20] <AgincourtDB> and take stuff off

[18:23] <Fred> _02_yeah. it's very customizable. my account is tweaked within an inch of it's life

[18:24] <Fred> _02_they also ask if everything you buy is a gift, and for whom. so it makes gift suggestions based on those as well.

[18:25] <the_lorax> it's kind of an annoying idea really. I shop on the internet so I don't have to talk to shopkeepers ...

[18:25] <the_lorax> ... and now the site bugs you about the same sort of thing.

[18:25] <Fred> _02_lol, well, you can ignore all of it

[18:30] <AgincourtDB> ok, maybe a shower will make me feel less sick

[18:30] <AgincourtDB> so I'm going to take a shower

[18:30] <AgincourtDB> bbiab

[18:31] * AgincourtDB is now known as agin_bathe

[18:31] <the_lorax> I see I'm not the only one who feels ill

[18:31] <vilstef> OK, I might even be here in a bit.

[18:31] <agin_bathe> yeah I have a head cold

[18:31] <agin_bathe> since yesterday

[18:31] <agin_bathe> darn babysitting

[18:31] <the_lorax> same here. this sucks.

[18:31] <agin_bathe> hehe

[18:32] <agin_bathe> those kids are more crudded up than the monkey in outbreak

[18:32] <vilstef> Where I'm at it's 75 degrees and about 70% humidity. I'm thinking of growing gills.

[18:32] <agin_bathe> to steal a KEvin Smith line

[18:32] <the_lorax> where are you at? it's been bright and sunny for about two weeks here

[18:32] <the_lorax> must be a record

[18:32] <vilstef> Des Moines Iowa

[18:32] <the_lorax> ah. blackburn lancashire here

[18:33] <the_lorax> the place with the 4000 holes in it

[18:33] <vilstef> Cloudy & overcast, 3 days of solid rain this week.

[18:33] <agin_bathe> how are those four thousand dammit somebody beat me to it

[18:33] <the_lorax> heh

[18:33] <vilstef> Do you really have a hole problem there?

[18:33] <agin_bathe> biab

[18:33] <the_lorax> yes.

[18:33] <the_lorax> the place has loads of underground caverns under it

[18:33] <vilstef> Coal mining way back when?

[18:33] <the_lorax> so they were always getting holes in the street

[18:34] <the_lorax> nope. i think they are natural

[18:34] <vilstef> DM has lots of coal mines, long closed under our city.

[18:34] <the_lorax> heh. in wales, they closed them all in the 80's now they want them back

[18:34] <the_lorax> but they've built malls and shopping centres over them

[18:35] <vilstef> Here in the US they literally take down mountains to get the coal.

[18:36] <the_lorax> not many mountains here

[18:36] <the_lorax> the place is in real trouble if this global warming pans out

[18:37] <vilstef> In the Powder River region of Wyoming they do super industrial mining & have big, heavy trains hauling it out all the time.

[18:37] <vilstef> About everywhere will be in real trouble if Global Warming pans out.

[18:37] <the_lorax> i think you'd have less enviromental damage with nuclear

[18:38] <the_lorax> yes. but the place i work is a dizzying five feet above sea level

[18:38] <the_lorax> if that.

[18:39] <vilstef> I'm in the central US and about 575 ft above sea level.

[18:40] <the_lorax> i'm in central lancashire. that means there is sea 30mi to the east and 30 mi to the west

[18:40] <vilstef> Five feet is a real 'how good are you at treading water' scenario.

[18:41] <the_lorax> heh. my house is on the site of a hill.

[18:41] <Fred> _02_TEN YEARS BEYOND BAKER STREET has a segment set in a Welsh coal mine

[18:45] <the_lorax> what's "ten years beyond baker street"

[18:46] <agin_bathe> back, cleaner

[18:47] * the_lorax lungs are not happy. I think i've got lung fever

[18:47] * agin_bathe is now known as Agincourtdb

[18:47] <Fred> _02_Sherlock Holmes VS Fu Manchu

[18:47] <Agincourtdb> vs Gamera

[18:48] <the_lorax> heh. that sounds like a mst3k canidate

[18:48] <Fred> _02_one of 2 later Fu books by Cay Van Ash

[18:48] <Fred> _02_they're actually very good

[18:48] <the_lorax> starting Christopher Lee

[18:48] <Fred> _02_not even guilty pleasure material

[18:48] <the_lorax> heh. is a book? I'll read it.

[18:49] * Agincourtdb sings: Gamera is really neat! Gamera is fun to eat! We believe in Gam-er-a!

[18:50] <Fred> _02_lol, yes, 2 books. FIRES OF FU MANCHU and TEN YEARS BEYOND BAKER STREET. Both are Fu adventures; the latter brings Holmes out of retirement

[18:52] <vilstef> I think my favorite Holmes pastiche is one called Sherlock Holmes and the Stalwart Companions. Which has a young Teddy Roosevelt filling the role of Watson.

[18:53] <Fred> _02_I wanted a third Cay Van Ash book: THE LOST WORLD OF DR. FU MANCHU

[18:53] <Fred> _02_it seems like such a natural!

[18:53] <the_lorax> moving downstairs. brb

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[18:59] * inferno has quit IRC (Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com_)

[19:02] <Agincourtdb> ping

[19:04] * the_lorax has joined #knownspace

[19:04] <Agincourtdb> ping

[19:04] <the_lorax> back

[19:04] <the_lorax> with another name change

[19:04] <Agincourtdb> did the trees need you to speak for them?

[19:05] <the_lorax> heh. funny story. i almost got arrested for cutting some trees down, on my own properity

[19:05] <Agincourtdb> did the maples want more sunlight, and the oaks ignore their pleas?

[19:05] <Agincourtdb> really?

[19:05] <Agincourtdb> were they a protected species or something

[19:05] <the_lorax> totally.

[19:05] <the_lorax> nope. they were those big ass evergreen shrubs that everyone hates

[19:06] <the_lorax> and they were knocking the retaining wall of my front garden down

[19:06] <Fred> _02_then why?

[19:06] <the_lorax> because i live in a preservation area, and I didn't get the permit

[19:06] <the_lorax> which I didn't know I needed

[19:06] <Agincourtdb> ahhh

[19:07] <the_lorax> they tree police decided to blame the gypsy with the wild staring eyes who did the work

[19:09] <Agincourtdb> hehe

[19:15] <vilstef> See you all later.

[19:15] <vilstef> Have to work at midnight & need to nail down a nap.

[19:16] <the_lorax> good night vilstef

[19:16] <vilstef> TTFN!

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[19:18] <Agincourtdb> Yeah, I'm out too, going to do some work

[19:18] <Agincourtdb> if it starts jumping in here someone email the list

[19:18] <Agincourtdb> pls

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[19:21] * Bill has joined #knownspace

[19:21] * nick_danger has joined #knownspace

[19:21] <Bill> A sad good afternoon to you all.

[19:21] <the_lorax> hi bill

[19:22] <Bill> Frank left me with a project I didn't want to have to do, but now I have the obligation.

[19:22] <the_lorax> project?

[19:23] <Fred> _02_to tell us all that "Global Warming is a crock!"?

[19:24] <Bill> He wanted me to make an urn for his ashes that looks like King Kong. (Typical Frank sense of humor, he wanted a clock in its stomach.) This was to go to LASFS, where it would proudly bear the inscriptions "PRESENT BUT NOT VOTING!" and "DEATH IS NO EXCUSE!" I guess they're LASFS in-jokes.

[19:24] * the_lorax is laughing his ass off.

[19:25] <Bill> THAT'S WHAT HE WANTED, LORAX!

[19:25] <the_lorax> i guess you'll just have to do it. it sounds like *exactly* what he would want

[19:25] <Fred> _02_a furry urn

[19:26] <the_lorax> i'm going to have the sad duty of extending the peggy gasperik page... which i didn't want to have to do either.

[19:26] <Bill> He approved my early sketches ... but I'd do them with a bit more dignity than those early designs.

[19:26] <the_lorax> a gorilla shaped furry urn with dignity

[19:27] <Bill> I only met Peggy once, at the 84 Worldcon. But she made Frank's eyes glow, so I know they were happy.

[19:28] <the_lorax> i remember meeting frank at a few cons. i don't remember peggy. lets face it, I was absolutely wasted.

[19:28] <Bill> Well, you'd have to have seen my sketches, Lorax ... I added a placque that said, "Frank Gasperik, Who Gave Up Too Early." I would improve upon some of those aspects.

[19:29] <Bill> Is there any way to upload graphics to this page?

[19:29] <the_lorax> have you seen spike milligans grave? it says "I told you I was ill"

[19:29] <the_lorax> well, if you email them to me I can quickly shove them online

[19:29] <Bill> ROTFL! Ben Franklin's (I believe) says, "I am what you will be."

[19:29] <Fred> _02_http://www.goantiques.com/scripts/images,id,558000.html

[19:30] <Bill> I'm running a search for the images now.

[19:32] <Bill> Peggy climed Frank's frame at that Worldcon ... "WHO IS THIS HOLDING YOUR GUITAR!!??" Frank told her I wrote Apollo XIII, her demeanor changed abruptly.

[19:33] <Bill> That's "Climbed" ... my hands are cold. Sorry.

[19:33] <the_lorax> heh.

[19:34] <Fred> _02_if only the Earth would warm up a little!

[19:34] <Bill> Cold climbs make for misspelled "climbs" ...

[19:34] <the_lorax> heh

[19:34] <the_lorax> then there is the picture of uwe klein i found

[19:34] <the_lorax> http://www.retrobbs.org/uwe.jpg

[19:34] <Fred> _02_okay, here you go:

[19:34] <Fred> _02_http://sorcerersworkshop.org/kongtankard.shtml

[19:34] <the_lorax> because he always gets accused of being a nazi during arguements

[19:35] <the_lorax> cool!

[19:36] <Bill> "Underneath this slab of grey LiesUncle Peter Daniels, Who too early in the month of May took off his winter flannels."

[19:38] <Bill> Did Larry show up today? I've been a bit involved in trying to find some fire-able throwing clay in my adopted lil one-horse town.

[19:39] <Fred> _02_http://www.henryart.org/image/cup-sized/gorillamugsm.jpg

[19:39] <the_lorax> don't know. i've been in and out

[19:40] <Fred> _02_I didn't come in 'til 2 hours ago. I haven't seen him.

[19:40] <Lensman> I just got back.

[19:41] <Fred> _02_all this talk of naps makes me crave one . . .

[19:41] <Bill> Wow, did I find a treasure at the Dollar Store yesterday! The original Max and Dave Fleischer "Gulliver's Travels" feature, under an obnoxiously bad cover. A good clean print, too! Hi, Lens!

[19:41] <the_lorax> hey lensman

[19:41] <the_lorax> thanks for those suggestions for the front page. i'll try to get that sorted soon

[19:41] <Bill> Front page?

[19:42] <Lensman> I've had two copies of Fleischman's GT, one VHS one DVD, and don't like either. Color is washed out. I'm sure there's a good DVD copy out there. Image and Bosco are best for the older stuff.

[19:42] <the_lorax> of larryniven.org i want to move the text on the current page to the about page

[19:42] <the_lorax> because it's really wordy and kind of doesn't belong there

[19:43] <Bill> This one is astonishing, for a buck! I'm going into town tomorrow, I think I'll clean them out.

[19:45] <Bill> Color saturation excellent, audio not perfect but not bad, and they left a gap of trailer at the reel change. Best I've seen in 20 years!

[19:45] <Lensman> I've been working on the subsidiary pages for the Concordance before I plunge into putting the actual Concordance entries up. Finagle the Bibliography is taking a lot of work! And not the main biblio charts, like I expected, but the Tables of Contents of the books. There's an AWFUL lot of formatting that needs to be done. *Sigh*

[19:45] <Lensman> Bill, what company is that DVD from?

[19:45] <the_lorax> that's a lot of work. how did you decide to lay it out in the end?

[19:45] <Lensman> I bought the Good Times DVD and was not pleased.

[19:46] <Lensman> Lay out what, the Biblio or the Concordance itself?

[19:46] <the_lorax> the concordance. we were talking about the best way to do the pages

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[19:47] <Bill> Some outfit called Family Value Collection. It's a series of 2-hr DVDs of questionable quality, but I also accidentally found "Poop Deck Pappy" on one, you'd swear it was a digitally restored print. Worth a buck, anyway!

[19:47] <Lensman> For my level of skill, I think just having everything on one page so I can hyperlink to my heart's desire is best. Altho I plan on putting the story summaries on a separate page. Or even giving each its own page, I haven't decided yet.

[19:48] <the_lorax> cool.

[19:48] <the_lorax> i've got loads of work to do... but I can't bring myself to do it right now

[19:49] <Bill> Search still running on Gorilla Frank ...

[19:49] * Dan has joined #knownspace

[19:49] <Bill> Greetings, DanSpace!

[19:49] <Dan> I just read today's list digests....

[19:49] <the_lorax> hi dan

[19:49] <Lensman> My SF club does a film fest every year. The previous two years we've done animation festivals, and I've always been on the film fest committee but was especially heavily involved as I'm a big animation fan with an extensive DVD library of short subjects. And yes, we were astonished as some of the dollar DVDs out there. Some of the prints they've used are in astonishingly good condition. Of course, others are most definitely NOT.

[19:49] <Bill> Sad news all around

[19:49] <Dan> Bill!

[19:50] <Lensman> So remind me, which was Frank's character in /Lucifer's Hammer/? I keep forgetting his name.

[19:51] <Dan> BRB, I have to get a beer. I'm knackered from work today, then I come home to news of Frank's death.

[19:51] <Lensman> He was the guy with a back problem riding a motorcycle cross-country, right?

[19:51] <Bill> When I send you your signed print of "Speaker Hits The Brakes", I'll try to remember to send one of these, Lens. The cover art sucks big green eggs, but when I saw that 3D ship after the Paramount logo, I went nuts!

[19:52] <Dan> Yeah, Mark Cesu (sp?)

[19:52] <Lensman> Mark Cesu! Thanks.

[19:53] <Dan> My wife cried, and she only knew Frank as a character in my "nightwatch" novel and from my reading his e-mails aloud.

[19:54] <Lensman> "Mark Czescu, biker" -- from the Dramatis Personae in my hardback signed by Niven & Pournelle at Denvention II in 1980 <Oh, Lensman is SUCH a braggart!>

[19:54] <Bill> My little brother is hoping to place "200!: A Special Odyssey" on his home page shortly, and I'm trying to figure out how to send it to YouTube. I have a freebie account with YouSendIt, I may look into that.

[19:54] <Dan> I knew I had misspelled it.

[19:55] <Bill> You didn't misspell "misspelled", one of the most-often misspelled words at Spelling Bees ... ;D

[19:56] <Dan> LOL!

[19:56] <Dan> I'm dislexic, I can misspell *anything* with impunity. LOL!

[19:56] <Lensman> Engrish been beddy beddy good to me. :-)

[19:57] <Lensman> ainmyptuhniintgy?

[19:58] <Bill> We need to talk about animated shorts, Lens. I've been into it all my life, only started actually making them in 1971. Do you remember a classic bit of silliness called "The Critic" ... not the new one, this was an Oscar winner with Mel Brooks doing a voice-over for an artsy piece of crap?

[19:59] <Lensman> Not sure. I've been to a few Spike & Mikes' Animation Festivals, but I'm not sure if I saw that one.

[20:00] <Bill> "Vot is dis? Ds is a grown man drawing cockaroaches? He could get a job! Fix a house! Build a shoe..." ROTFFLMFAO

[20:00] <Lensman> There was a wonderful-looking silhouette thing based on Jules Verne's works that was an Oscar finalist a couple of years ago, I really wanted to get that for our second Animation fest but it had only very recently been released in Australia (where it was made IIRC) and there wasn't enuff time to get it, besides which imported DVDs are outrageously expensive.

[20:01] <Lensman> Bill you have a PRIVATE MESSAGE

[20:01] <Lensman> Speaking of cockroaches, check out "Franz Kafka's It's a Wonderful Life". Hilarious 25 minute short, very popular with the Laser Rangers.

[20:02] <Bill> Somebody drew on blank 16mm film stock and Mel Brooks was dis lil Jewish old man making commentary ... "For dis you brought me to the cinema? Don't 'shush' me, I'm an old man< I'm gonna die soon..."

[20:03] <Lensman> Bill, if you're using IRC you should see a quietly blinking rectangle near the top of your screen saying "Bill" beside it. That's the PM I send you.

[20:04] <Bill> I see that I have a PM and I can read it, but even clicking on your name doesn't give me a response window

[20:04] <Bill> No, JAVA

[20:06] <Bill> Don't count on not getting it by then, I'm going to be at MisCon during ConQuesT *IF* I have money in hand from outstanding sources (I mean "outstanding" as in "WHERE'S MY MONEY, YOU THUGS?") and if I get paid before MisCon, you have mail coming.

[20:06] <Lensman> Hey, anyone, can you PM with the Java client?

[20:08] <Dan> Dunno, but Bill can double-click on your nickname and send PM back to you.

[20:08] <Lensman> I wish I could have been in earlier but I had mandatory family affair to attend. :(

[20:09] <Bill> I shouldn't have used my 3D gorilla with the "Gorilla" word in the title so often ... Windows is searching through my animation files, and at 6-9 seconds a clip there are a *LOT* of files to paw through.

[20:09] <Lensman> So just what was Frank's profession? I seem to recall someone saying he had contributed some calculations to one or more Niven stories?

[20:10] <Bill> Frank was a meistersinger.

[20:10] <Bill> Frank was an aerospace fanatic with experience, friends, and connections.

[20:11] <Dan> Calculations, ideas, brainstorms, "local color"...

[20:11] <Bill> Phrank was a PHAN!

[20:11] <Bill> brb

[20:11] <Lensman> A trufan, certainly.

[20:15] <Bill> Lens, for planning purposes: "Speaker" is 11x17" with about 4" added to both dimensions (2" matte around) and Larry signed them so they lay with the 21" side horizontal. (Just for planning purposes when you map your layout for the art show.)

[20:17] <Bill> And once again, this has once again raised up, he did "not" say it was the most accurate representation of the Lyin' Bastid, he said I was the first one that showed the Fusion Disc Drives rotating up and down from the wing accurately.

[20:18] <Bill> FYI and for the record.

[20:20] <Lensman> Did I say Larry said that? Sorry for the mis-quote.

[20:21] <Bill> (sigh) ... if a picture is worth 1,000 words, then computer animation is worth 30,000 words a second, and Windows is still feeding me gorilla animation frames. I've started a second search for "Frank" ... and begin to suspect it's all on my laptop anyway.

[20:21] <Dan> It's a beautiful work of art anyway, Bill.

[20:21] <Bill> I don't know that *you" did, Lens ... but "somebody" did and I want to set the record straight.

[20:22] <Bill> Thanks, Dan.

[20:23] <Dan> I but speak the truth.

[20:23] * Dan grins.

[20:23] <Lensman> A miniature of Bill's painting is proudly displayed at the front page of my Concordance, which hopefully will get some attention when I get it to the point it's fit for public consumption.

[20:24] <Lensman> Speaking of art, does anyone here have any KS fan art I can use, or have any contacts with any of the artists whose work is displayed on the Known Space website?

[20:24] <Dan> The cover you did for Aphelion has gotten come comments on our Lettercol, and at least one of our writers is hyperventelating over your offer to illustrate some stories.

[20:24] <Bill> It's nice to hear. Now check out "Analog" in the coming year and tell Stan Schmidt if you like what you see there, too! (The stories are terrific, I hope my art is up to the challenge, but positive feedback increases my assignments.)

[20:26] <Bill> KEWL, Dan! The offer stands!

[20:27] <Dan> I put it in my editorial, as well as some of the details of the series you proposed.

[20:27] <Bill> Wait ... are you saying it's already out? I haven't heard about this ...

[20:28] <Dan> Yeah, we went live with the May isssue about 2 AM Monday.

[20:28] <Bill> (Nobody tells artists nuttin ...)

[20:28] <Lensman> I made up a tiny little polygon /Liar/ to use as a graphic pointer at the Concordance website. I couldn't get the wing to be a color I liked, so I went back and looked at Bill's painting and imitated that. Now it looks like I ripped Bill off, but frankly I don't care. As the quote attributed to Picasso says: "Mediocre artists imitate. Great artists steal!"

[20:29] <Dan> "isssue"??? OK, I pleade dislexia and two beers after a really hard day at work in the factory.

[20:29] <Bill> And friends are welcome, Lens! You're 5)% responsible for the piece, anyway.

[20:30] <Lensman> Thanx Bill!

[20:30] <Bill> ^50%^

[20:30] <Lensman> No, 5%.

[20:31] <Bill> You stand corrected, if you want yer bloody artwork, Lens.

[20:31] <Dan> Artists always under-rate their own work. LOL!

[20:32] <Bill> I couldn't have made this without Lensman's kind help. And Niven loved it.

[20:32] <Lensman> Mmmm okay. But I believe there's more than a slight discrepancy between the few minutes I spent doing a text search and copying bits of text from Ringworld, versus the no doubt days if not weeks you must have spend on that breathtaking painting.

[20:32] <Bill> So, Dan, if I poke at Aphelion RTM, I see my cover?

[20:33] <Lensman> Is Aphelion something we can all look at, or is it subscription-only?

[20:33] <Bill> I think it's open-ended, Lens

[20:34] <Lensman> A link, please?

[20:34] <Dan> Lens, Aphelion is totally free and online. It's somewhat of a permanent floating Writer's workshop e-zine that I've been publishing for the last ten years.

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[20:34] <Dan> www.aphelion-webzine.com

[20:35] <Lensman> Thanx Dan.

[20:35] <Dan> Hello, me.

[20:35] <me> hi

[20:35] <Bill> Oooh, nice! Thanks!

[20:37] <Bill> KEWL! I'm going to have some new reading tonight!

[20:37] <Bill> Hello, me.

[20:37] <me> hi

[20:38] <Lensman> Wow! I see you've used the same white-text-on-star-background I've used for my Concordance. But yours is obviously a professional job! Maybe someday I'll be able to do that well.

[20:39] <Bill> I'm serious, Dan ... have your interested readers flesh out the stories, I'll throw illustrations together for you/them as I can manage.

[20:39] <Dan> Lens, my computer guru did that new layout from a template he found. Aphelion has always used a starfield background for the table of contents page, though.

[20:39] <Bill> Lens, what are you seeing?

[20:39] <Lensman> Some REALLY nice covers there in the Aphelion gallery. Are any of the older ones yours, Bill?

[20:40] <Bill> Nope, this is my first

[20:40] <Dan> Bill, I made sure to tell them that you'll only work from *completed* stories.

[20:40] <Bill> Of many, I hope. It's a good zine!

[20:40] <Lensman> Bill: What means "What are you seeing?"

[20:40] * Dan blushes.

[20:41] <Bill> You must be talking about interior illos, Lens. The cover is full color.

[20:41] <Lensman> Oh, I'm looking at the Aphelion website of course, and your painting Bill. I don't know your work well enuff to have recognized it. Wish I could see it without the text. Is a larger version posted online anywhere?

[20:42] <Bill> Negatory, not at the moment. Dan and company are talking about a potential gallery as a special feature, though.

[20:42] <Dan> I'll be putting a larger version online on a page dedicated to Bill's series idea. But that page hasn't been composed yet.

[20:42] <Lensman> I'm talking about the Table of Contents with the white text on black background. And also talking about Bill's cover painting. Sorry for the non-sequiturs, that's a bad habit of mine.

[20:44] <Bill> Bad habits don't include offering creative outlets, Dan. Better find another phrase for what you do.

[20:44] <Dan> Bill deliberatly tweaked my ego when he named the two Mars Explorer craft "Aphelion One" and "Aphelion Two."

[20:44] <Lensman> Me Lensman... him Dan. :-)

[20:45] * Dan laughs.

[20:45] <Bill> No kidding, this Fleischer "Gulliver's Travels" is the best print I've seen since the 1960's.

[20:45] <Dan> Aphelion isn't a bad habit, it's a full-blown addiction!

[20:45] <Lensman> So what's the name of the company who put out the DVD?

[20:46] <Bill> "Family Value Collection" is all I can find, Lens.

[20:46] <Lensman> All the time I've spent on my Concordance website since Larry gave me the okay *feels* like an addiction! Hope I don't get burnt out just putting up this first section.

[20:46] <Dan> Oooooo! I think I have that version in my DVD collection.

[20:46] <Lensman> Oh, you said that, sorry.

[20:46] <Bill> It's a slimline case with OBNOXIOUSLY BAD ART on the cover.

[20:47] <Dan> Lens, as long as you keep loving doing it, you'll never get burnt out.

[20:47] <Lensman> I figured it was a slimline case. All those $1 DVDs use those.

[20:48] <Lensman> In fact, I've gotten 2-3 which were in cardboard sleeves.

[20:48] <Bill> I did artwork for Bjo Trimble's original (well, second-season supplement) of the Trek concordance. One of my original drawings ended up in the Ballantine Books version (of course, it was the worst of the lot)

[20:48] <Bill> 1976 ... dayum, I must be approaching middle-age!

[20:49] <Dan> Aren't we all?

[20:49] <Bill> It beats the alternative, Lens.

[20:49] <Lensman> Do you mean third-season supplement? The first edition of the Trek Concordance was one volume with the first two seasons, and a supplement for the third season.

[20:49] <Lensman> BTW you just dated youself there, Bill...

[20:50] <Bill> Sorry, you're right ... dayum, I *MUST* be approaching middle age!

[20:50] <Lensman> Oh, I see my comment was redundant. (So what else is new?) :-)

[20:50] <Lensman> But then, I dated myself too, didn't I?

[20:51] <Bill> The "Mira Romaine" in the Ballantine SUCKED! If I could have chosen any of about a dozen illos I did in the 3S Supplement, that would've been my last choice.

[20:52] <Bill> I prefer dating myself to dating women these days. I'm seriously convinced that the next time I get a wild hair upp my butt that marriage is a good idea, I'm just going to randomly select some bitch who hates me offg the street and buy her a house.

[20:52] * Dan has quit IRC (Ping timeout_)

[20:52] <Lensman> The Ballantine edition was very strange. The first printing had that strange cardboard wheel on the cover, which was an awful choice for a reference book, being so fragile. I lost that over the years. The new small-press version actually looks quite professional, altho unfortunately most of the fan art has been replaced by crude computer drawings. :-(

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[20:53] <Bill> I never even got a contributor's copy of the Ballantine version. (sigh)

[20:54] <Lensman> Well I guess every *true* artist has to have an unhappy life or they don't get inspired. Sorry, Bill.

[20:54] * me has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*_)

[20:54] <Lensman> Was it something I said? <g>

[20:54] * me has joined #knownspace

[20:54] <Bill> Too bad you don't have your old one ... I'd happily sign it for you when we do eventually meet. (Say, Tuckercon?)

[20:55] <Lensman> Unfortunately being unemployed I can't afford out-of-town conventions.

[20:55] <Bill> Hi again, me! I wondered where I'd gone when we found out me wasn't here. Where have I been, anyway?

[20:57] <Bill> That's something I'm gonna miss ... --GONE++++ ... Frank's Flash Gordon rocketship.

[20:57] * Dan has joined #knownspace

[20:57] <Lensman> What does that mean? The rocketship.

[20:58] <Dan> Grrrrrrr.... My home ISP is for crap.

[20:58] <Bill> I tip an elbow to absent friends. Here's to Frank Gasperik, to Frank Freas, to Ted Sturgeon, to Bob & Ginny Heinlein...

[20:58] <Dan> Hear, hear!

[20:58] <Lensman> Yah.

[20:58] <Lensman> To all those who've gone to that great fannish enclave in the sky.

[20:59] <Lensman> The eternal convention, or the biggest slan shack ever, take your pick.

[20:59] <Bill> Felix told me that his "Gone" logo is Flash Gordon's rocketship flying from right to left ... --GONE+++

[21:00] <Bill> Nose probe, bulbous prow, fuselage, tail feathers and +++flames

[21:00] <Lensman> An ASCII text crawl perhaps? Not anything I see in mIRC, I don't think.

[21:00] <Lensman> Doesn't sound like ASCII art...

[21:01] <Bill> -- is the nose probe, G is the prow with windows .... you'll get it, stare at it for a while.

[21:02] <Lensman> Unless the "tail feathers" are

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[21:03] <Lensman> Oh, sorry, "GONE" literally is the rocket ship? Well you've got that artistic imagination, I don't.

[21:03] <Bill> I just watched "J-Men Forever" again the other night ... hilarious stuff, but when one of the Moon Men comes out of the Gasperik rocketship and one of the thugs says, "Hey, ain't that Leonard Nimoy?" I just about had a hernia. It was Leonard, of course.

[21:04] <Lensman> And what is "J-Men Forever" ?

[21:04] <Bill> You familiar with "The Firesign Theater"?

[21:05] <Lensman> A bit, I never cottened to their stuff. But that's mostly audio-only isn't it?

[21:06] <Bill> Audio-only, yes ... but bizarre enough that I think they won a Hugo for "I Think We're All Bozos On This Bus"

[21:07] <Lensman> That's the one my ex-girlfriend got me to listen do. *Shrug* What can I say? Didn't work for me. I *did* enjoy the video production I saw about the Kudzu cult.

[21:08] <Lensman> Several of my friends think FT is as funny as Monty Python. To each his own.

[21:09] <Lensman> But you said "watched". Is "J-Men Forever" a Firesign Theatre video, or just the same sort of humor? And is it an original production, or is it a new audio track for an old probably-not-so-great film?

[21:10] <Bill> Two of the troupe (which their body of work is worth looking up, (George Carlin has their library at Laugh.com), but Proctor and Bergman bought a bunch of Repulic serials and clipped them together into a thing called "J-Men Forever" and it's a huge counterculture cult fave. Silly as hell, but well worth a watch. Do you remember "Mad Movies"? Kinda like that ... reminiscent of Woody Allen's "What's Up Tiger Lily?" ... redubbing a weird bit of cinema with an e

[21:11] <Lensman> This sounds like the sort of thing we should be showing in the ConQuesT video room.

[21:12] <Bill> Which is why I mentioned it. I not only build these things, I appreciate them from other demented minds.

[21:12] <Lensman> I see run time is 73 minutes. Not a short subject, then.

[21:12] <Lensman> No doubt you've seen "Troops" and "George Lucas in Love" ?

[21:13] * Dan has joined #knownspace

[21:13] <Bill> It made it to cable TV, I don't remember the channel but it was something line TNT.

[21:13] <Bill> Dan, help me out here ... do you remember "J-Men Forever"?

[21:13] <Dan> Arrrrrgh! I hate Alltel!

[21:14] <Lensman> I actually am the proud owner of a DVD-quality version of "Troops". It was a short on the short-lived "Total Movie" magazine which came with a DVD. Those DVDs are now going for big bucks on E=bay now, I hear.

[21:14] <Lensman> What's Alltel?

[21:14] <Bill> "All I have to do is find this mansion ...(sees Stately Wayne Manor) ... Ahhh, MANSION ACXCOMPLISHED!"

[21:15] <Dan> My local phone company, which is also my DSL provider. Or LACK of provider, in tonight's case.

[21:15] <Bill> Now, "TROOPS" I have ... but where can I lay a hand on I.M.P.S.?

[21:16] <Bill> And TROOPS is *BRILLIANT*! I bow to superior capabilities!

[21:17] <Lensman> http://www.impstherelentless.com/tek9.asp

[21:17] * Dan hands Bill an ice-cold glass of Irish Mist.

[21:17] <Bill> Wow, that's too kewl ... I made the cover of Aphelion!

[21:18] <Bill> Thank you, Dan!

[21:18] <Dan> Made, in several senses of the word.

[21:18] <Bill> *blush*

[21:19] <Bill> back at ya

[21:19] <Dan> I'm now on the laptop, which means that I have access to my bartending script again.

[21:19] <Bill> WE NEED TO BUILD A FRANK GASPERIK DRINK!

[21:20] <Bill> Bitter on occasion, so a splash of Campari.

[21:20] <Lensman> Speaking of good Star Wars parodies, have you seen this?

[21:20] <Lensman> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKz06vFWjsc

[21:20] <Dan> That's simple, just combine elements that take your breath away and leave you feeling better than you did before you experienced the drink.

[21:22] <Bill> No, or yes, Lens, but I don't want to break my fragile link with the chat now that I'm here. I'll look at it in a bit.

[21:22] <Lensman> Well, I like Larry's idea (I think it was Larry's) of making your own on-the-spot "winter wine" by putting dry ice in the cup and letting it freeze out some of the water...

[21:22] <Bill> Have you all seen "Pink Five" and all of its permutations?

[21:22] <Dan> LOL!

[21:23] <Dan> Never seen that, Bill.

[21:23] <Lensman> Not all of Pink Five. I thought the first two episodes were hilarious but the third drug on and I haven't seen any further.

[21:24] <Lensman> It's too bad Pink Five is only available as low-res video. I'd love to show the 1st two parts to Laser Rangers, but not at that resolution!

[21:24] * me has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*_)

[21:25] <Bill> I have a jug of Dollar Store Apple Juice (with a pinch of Baker's Yeast) sitting in my windowsill as we speak. When the apple and the honey run out for the yeasties, I'm putting the jug in my freezer, then I'll drain what didn't freeze out of the ice. It makes *EXCELLENT* apple honey brandy, gents and/or ladies, I still don't know who "me" is.

[21:26] <Lensman> The You Tube link is for the Emperor/Darth Vader phone call re the destruction of the Death Star. If you haven't seen it, copy that link and watch it later!

[21:26] <Bill> I'm copying links as we go, Lens.

[21:27] <Lensman> One of my younger friends pointed me towards "Robot Chicken". Several (all?) episodes at You Tube, some quite hilarious.

[21:27] <Dan> That ought to be good. Bothe the drink *and* the video.

[21:27] <Bill> I also need a quick biobreak. BRB, all.

[21:27] <Bill> Who wants to add something to the "Phrank" drink?

[21:28] <Dan> Robot Chicken I've liked most bits that I've seen.

[21:28] <Lensman> This would be a good time for me to release hydraulic fluid, also.

[21:28] <Lensman> Regarding mixed drinks: Sorry, since I don't "drink" I can't contribute knowledgably.

[21:30] <Dan> I'd recommend a Southern Comfort base, to build the drink upon.

[21:31] <Bill> (Back) ... SOUTHERN COMFORT!!?? Please tell me that's a joke on your part ...

[21:32] <Dan> Not really, I found it to be quite tasty, with a splash of lime jusce abd a dash of itters.

[21:33] <Lensman> I'm going to multi-task for a bit.

[21:33] <Bill> Frank wouldn't come close to that on a bet ... and Campari (which he would) and SC ... I hate to imagine that coming back to revisit later.

[21:33] <Dan> Grrrr... Not dislexia that time. I'm not used to the laptop's keyboard.

[21:34] <Bill> I like Yukon Jack with tonic and lime (as a chaser) but Southern Comfort ... You're gonna have to prove it to me in person someday, Mr. Dan.

[21:35] <Bill> Maybe because I got sick as a dog on SC at my Navy Ball ...

[21:35] <Bill> It jes don' taste the same coming back

[21:35] <Dan> Well, I'm throwing a party here next Saturday, Bill. You going to be anywhere in the south anytime soon?

[21:37] <Bill> The closest I expect to be to the South is Tuckercon ... the NasFiC. I'd be delighted to run into you there ... I should be easy enough to find, my first Best Man, Roger Tener, is the TM. Find him, you'll find me.

[21:37] <Dan> Sean is planning on driving down from Kentucky, and some of the Aphelion people will be here.

[21:38] <Dan> I'm afraid my next con will be LibertyCon in Chattanooga in late July. My wife and I are going.

[21:39] <Bill> Dan, I live in Central Washington, a lil town called Ellensburg. You're a little out of my walking distance (Well, actually, you're *not*, but I don't have that much time on my hands right now.)

[21:39] <Bill> :)

[21:39] <Dan> Gack! Washington state is a looooooong way away from here. LOL!

[21:40] <Bill> Just milliseconds. Watch!

[21:40] <Bill> ;)

[21:40] <Bill> Sorry, couldn't find my keyboard

[21:41] <Bill> That would have been milliseconds...

[21:41] <Dan> Well, we are planning to wireless the laptop and plug a webcam into it. Some of the Aphelion folks want to join us online while we party here.

[21:41] <Bill> DO YOU SKYPE?

[21:41] <Dan> Probably on Yahoo IM and MS IM.

[21:42] <Dan> I do, but haven't added it to the laptop yet. I Skype from the desktop, thanks to Sean - who talked me into getting the program.

[21:43] <Dan> I should add it to the laptop, though.

[21:43] <Dan> BRB, time for my 4th beer....

[21:44] <Bill> No, I mean, do you have members with paid subscriptions to SKYPE? I'm setting up a George Jetson link between my friends at ConQuesT in Kansas City and the convention I'm going to be at in Missoula. MT over Memorial Day, and SKYPE makes that possible. I have a working webcam and a free long distance via-internet account witH SKYPE, we might hook up?

[21:45] <Bill> Sean and I did link briefly ... and I had to take a biobreak and we lost it and never tried again.

[21:46] <Dan> What's the date for that? I have the free Skype account, but not a paid one.

[21:47] <Bill> The paid one works for video ... the free one works anytime. MisCon is going to be Memorial Day Weekend, typical con schedule. I'm working with the convention now to figure out schedules, but ConQuesT is all over it ... "Sister City Conventions", as it were.

[21:48] <Bill> How would you like to be in on the "Electronic Publishing Panel"? if it can be arranged?

[21:48] <Dan> I'll be back at work that weekend, on nights. So I'll either be asleep or at work.

[21:49] <Bill> I don't know when the panels happen ... an hour in the afternoon sometime, is that do-able?

[21:50] <Dan> I've got Skype fired up at the moment. Under the nick vilaresthal.

[21:50] <Dan> May 26th & 27th?

[21:50] <Bill> How classic ...? Electronic publishing, attended from the deep SouthEast bu an electronic publisher ...?

[21:51] * Agincourtdb has joined #knownspace

[21:52] <Agincourtdb> checking in

[21:52] <Dan> Hello, Agincourtdb!

[21:52] <Agincourtdb> hi Dan

[21:52] <Bill> I'm talking to you on a tower that burnt the sound card out in January, and my cling to this page via Internet Exploder is tenuous at best. I'll copy that info and try it after I get out of the chat. Agincourt, greetings! Welcome to the wake.

[21:53] <Agincourtdb> hey Bill

[21:53] <Agincourtdb> I was in earlier for a while

[21:53] <Agincourtdb> sound cards are way cheap

[21:53] <Bill> I was late. Well, not late like that.

[21:54] * Agincourtdb is eating a cupcake'

[21:56] <Bill> We're discussing (among other things) the ingredients for a Drink named after Frank. Any singular suggestions?

[21:56] <Agincourtdb> Motor Oil ;-)

[21:56] <Agincourtdb> from a harley

[21:57] <Bill> What brand?

[21:57] <Bill> (PLEASE not PENNZOIL!)

[21:57] <Agincourtdb> no idea\

[21:59] <Bill> OK, we have Southern Comfort, Campari, and 10-W-30 (or best recommendation from Harley Davidson.) This doesn't sound completely toxic yet but it's approaching that limit.

[21:59] <Dan> Oooooo! I've got 4 different cans of a Harly Davison brand beer.

[21:59] <Bill> Probably more like 30W50 ...

[22:00] <Dan> Never been opened.

[22:00] <Bill> Good substitute, Dan! SC, Campari, and HD STOUT!

[22:01] <Dan> LOL!

[22:01] <Bill> Now we're getting somewhere ...

[22:02] <Bill> Peggy would've had a wine cooler or spritzer, unless my memory is shot. ((SHUT UP, I ALREADY KNOW THAT. er, knew that. I think...)

[22:04] <Bill> And a chaser of laughter, fine camaraderie, and uncountable filksongs, amen.

[22:04] <Dan> Amen.

[22:05] <Bill> meistersinger. Entertainer par excellence. I tip my hat (and my beer) to you, ol' buddy ... Here's to Frank!

[22:06] * Dan raises his glass in toast to Frank!

[22:07] <Bill> Not to steal your line, Lens ... but "Clear Aether!"

[22:07] <Bill> "You picked a bad time to leave me, Fay Wray ..." ... LOL

[22:08] <Dan> You keep that up ans someone will start quoting Rocky Horror next. LOL!

[22:09] <Agincourtdb> I'm trembling with antic

[22:09] <Agincourtdb> ipation

[22:11] <Bill> Not Rocky Horror ... Don't you know the filk? "You pivked a bad time to leave me Fay Wray --New York's in an uproar there's planes on their way -- we seen some bad times and been through some sad times but always thought we'd see our day -- you picked a bad time to leave me Fay Wray..."

[22:11] <Agincourtdb> i don't know any filk

[22:12] <Bill> Frank used to sing one of mine to the astronauts who lived through the adventure.

[22:12] <Dan> I've written a some filk, but that one never occured to me.

[22:13] <Bill> AND HE GOT IT RIGHT!

[22:14] <Bill> It's funny as hell, Dan ... Filthy Pierre may still be in business. BUY HIS BOOK, if it's available.

[22:15] <Bill> A difinitive hymnal of filksingery if ever there was one.

[22:18] <Bill> Sorry, for those of you I was going to upload the GorillaFrank images, they are apparently on the other computer. I will pm my email to any of you who don't already have it if you'd like to see, once I transfer them (the laptop isn't talking to the web right now.)

[22:18] <Dan> Here's one... Hope I don't get flood-kicked...

[22:19] <Dan> A fine little girl

[22:19] <Dan> Explored with me

[22:19] <Dan> A Ring in space

[22:19] <Dan> So far away

[22:19] <Dan> Our friend, a Kzin

[22:19] <Dan> Came with us

[22:19] <Dan> And a Puppeteer

[22:19] <Dan> Named Nessus...

[22:19] <Dan> Oh Louie, Louie-

[22:19] <Dan> Wu gotta go...

[22:19] <Dan> And everybody sing now,

[22:19] <Dan> Louie, Louie-

[22:19] <Dan> Wu gotta go...

[22:19] <Dan> We explored the Ring

[22:19] <Dan> So far away

[22:19] <Dan> And we barely made

[22:19] <Dan> Our escape

[22:19] <Dan> We left Teela behind

[22:19] <Dan> At her bequest

[22:19] <Dan> And we wished to her

[22:19] <Dan> The very best

[22:19] * Dan has quit IRC (Excess Flood_)

[22:19] * Dan has joined #knownspace

[22:19] <Dan> I got flood-kicked! LOL!

[22:21] <Bill> Do you know how close "Louie-Louie" came to being oficially adopted as the Washington State Song??

[22:21] <Dan> Never heard that.

[22:21] <Bill> IT WAS CLOSE!

[22:22] <Bill> Well, it *sounded* like it was close in the news reports...

[22:22] <Dan> LOL!

[22:22] <Bill> I VOTED FOR IT!

[22:23] <Bill> The people pushing for it said, "You can't understand it, you can't understand the politicians, it's perfect!

[22:24] <Dan> I would have too.

[22:24] <Bill> "We godda go" is the only bit that made any sense.

[22:25] <Dan> I looked up the official lyrics online before I wrote that one.

[22:26] <Bill> Speaking of "we godda go", I hear that YET ANOTHER frontier town in Tornado Alley was wiped from the face of the earth today.

[22:27] <Dan> Yeah, the TV news had that showing all day today on the set in the breakroom at work.

[22:28] <Bill> People lost sight of their founding fathers when they started building bigger things than sod huts on the Kansas prairies...

[22:29] <Bill> Kansas may not have been flattened in a day ... BUT IT CAN BE IN PLACES!

[22:29] <Dan> Folks out there ought to look into building concrete dome homes and underground homes, too.

[22:29] <Bill> I speak from experience, BTW ... I was born there.

[22:31] <Bill> I've been pushing for domes forever! With a little earth-berming engineering involved, the heat pulse cools you all summer and heats you all winter.

[22:31] <Dan> Monolithic Domes has some great designs.

[22:32] <Bill> Of course, you get better effect in the warmer climes ... here in the Northwest, we don't get the sunpower you do down there.

[22:33] <Dan> Well, when the foot-thick concrete walls give you R-100+ insulating value and zero drafts, any tiny heat source will work wonders.

[22:36] <Agincourtdb> you're your own heat source in a room like that

[22:36] <Agincourtdb> plus, it makes for a great recording studio ;-)

[22:37] <Agincourtdb> at least with sound absorption on the interior surfaces

[22:37] <Dan> LOL

[22:37] <Bill> True, Dan, but up here there's still an air circulation value that has *HAS* to be considered... unlike you, we have to consider being buried in snow for some considerable period of time. It gives us a thrifty look at resources, some of which include stuff like air.

[22:37] <Agincourtdb> only a foot thick, you'll still get some low frequency from outside

[22:38] <Agincourtdb> truck rumble

[22:39] <Bill> Agin says "truck rumble", when I feel that nowadays I think "Mt. Rainier."

[22:39] <Agincourtdb> lol yeah

[22:39] <Agincourtdb> that too

[22:39] <Bill> Bad booh-booh. I'm in the path when THAT lil baby pops a pimple.

[22:39] <Agincourtdb> "let's cut... that take was ruined by the eruption..."

[22:40] <Bill> LOL

[22:41] <Agincourtdb> "hey, let's take the portable out and get an audio sample of the lava bubbling..."

[22:42] <Bill> If any of you get up here to the PNW, please do yourselves a favor and SEE Mt. St. Helens ... those lovely little movies youy've seen don't give you an idea how BIG this event as, you really owe it to yourself to see this.

[22:42] <Dan> When I feel the ground quiver and hear a low-pitched rumble that seems to go on forever, I just think "Dad's got the tractor out and is clearing the soot out of the turocharger again..."

[22:42] <Agincourtdb> i loved those pics from when stuff started growing again

[22:43] <Bill> Ghod Nose, Agincourt, you need binocs to see the bottom of the valley from Johnston Ridge. It's breathtaking ...

[22:45] <Bill> I have found a new fascination for the victims of Pompeii and Herculaneum ... they couldn't believe they were in danger if they were that far away ... wow ...

[22:45] <Bill> Not far at all

[22:45] <Bill> Just 30 miles

[22:46] <Dan> That's practally walking distance.

[22:46] <Bill> ("Big badda boom! Bad, bad-da BOOM!")

[22:47] <Dan> 5th Element.

[22:47] <Agincourtdb> gary oldman

[22:48] <Bill> Not over this terrain today, Dan. But it's inspirational. (And not Gary Oldan, it was Milla.)

[22:48] <Agincourtdb> must be Michael taking off ;-)

[22:48] <Agincourtdb> true

[22:49] <Agincourtdb> speaking of volcanos http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_815.html

[22:50] <Bill> Damn, Oldman blows my mind every time I see him ... he's -- what -- as Brit as he can be, but I don't think I've ever seen him but what he palys an American with a regional accent?

[22:50] <Agincourtdb> he's really scary in the Professional

[22:51] <Dan> What accent did he use in Lost In Space?

[22:51] <Agincourtdb> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_792.html

[22:51] <Bill> What Agin started to say ...

[22:52] <Bill> LIS? He's too young for that ! ... oh, wait, they DID make a movie about that, didn't they? Was he in it?

[22:53] * SeanAway is now known as SeanS

[22:54] <Dan> Yeah, he played Dr. Smith in the movie.

[22:54] <Dan> Hiya Sean!

[22:54] <SeanS> hi dan

[22:54] <SeanS> and everyone else ;)

[22:58] <Bill> Dr Smith? "Oh The Pain" Dr. Smith? He (the original actor, I forget his name at the moment) did his last role for "A Bug's Life" ... Jonothan Harris, he was the Mantis. Hi, Sean!

[22:59] <Dan> Yeah, Jonathan Harris. I finally got a complete set of the original series. Wonderful stuff.

[22:59] <Bill> Tip a hat and a drink toward Phoenix ... may Frank rise yet from the ashes!

[23:00] <Lensman> Gary Oldman played Dr. Smith in the movie. Good role, bad movie.

[23:01] <Bill> In the original pilot, Smith was an enemy agent and a cold blooded killer ... I could see this in Oldman, but I never bought it in the Irwin Allen schlock. Did they take advantage of that?

[23:01] <Lensman> Oh, you said that.

[23:01] <Dan> At least they had the class to get Bob Mays to do the voice of the Robot again.

[23:02] <SeanS> i tipped a number of beers in the phoenix direction today

[23:03] <Lensman> Oldman was a good, ruthless villain. The movie was okay for the first 1/3 or so, then wandered off into some vague senseless time loop thing that not only didn't make sense, it lacked any suspense.

[23:03] <Bill> We've lost another classic, my friends, if we choose to. I haven't lost Kelly yet, either ... they live as long as we tell their tales.

[23:03] <Lensman> I admit part of my problem was William Hurt. I've never been able to appreciate his acting, and as the "family man" father he just wasn't convincing at all.

[23:04] <Agincourtdb> I liked him in Dune

[23:05] <SeanS> answering an email in the chat room, frank called himself felix in here infrequently but he did from time to time. that was his nick on another list

[23:05] <Lensman> I hear the first few episodes of the TV series were done straight and Dr. Smith was actually a real villain. I always wondered why they didn't just space him and be done with it. (Real answer: no story)

[23:05] <Bill> My buddy "RedEye Knight" complains about William Hurt, but he thinks he's talking about Russel Crowe ..

[23:05] <Agincourtdb> lol

[23:05] <Lensman> I have no doubt William Hurt is a good actor. He just rubs me the wrong way.

[23:06] <Agincourtdb> who was the girl in that?

[23:06] <Dan> The first attempt at the series didn't *have* Dr. Smith at all, and was done straight. It was really good.

[23:06] <Lensman> The teen girl in the movie?

[23:06] <Agincourtdb> heather graham

[23:07] <SeanS> i thought dr smith was a stowaway who got stuck on the ship and didnt want to be there.. in the series that is

[23:07] <Bill> I watched "Master And Commander" again today, I *know* REK has them mixed up. Nobody could have blown a role in "Altered States", but I think William Hurt managed.

[23:07] <Lensman> Lacy Chabert

[23:07] <Lensman> Heather Graham was "mommy"

[23:08] <Lensman> per IMDb.com

[23:08] <Agincourtdb> yeah

[23:08] <Fred> _02_nope

[23:08] <Lensman> Oh, you think "Altered States" would have worked with someone else in the lead? I thought that was just my personal reacion to Hurt.

[23:08] <Dan> That's right, Sean. But he wasn't written into the series until the 2nd pilot - the one that actually sold. At first he was a real vilian, but soon became comic relief.

[23:08] <Fred> _02_Heather Graham was the older sister, Judy

[23:09] <Fred> _02_the former Mrs. Tom Cruise was Maureen, the mommy

[23:09] <SeanS> he was the villian who got stuck in the first one that i saw

[23:09] <Lensman> Okay. Heather had a "Doctor" in front of her character's title, I thought she was mommy.

[23:09] <Bill> Ooooh, Heather Graham as Judy? That would be dishy ...

[23:09] <Fred> _02_yes

[23:10] <SeanS> stole the whole show from the lead actor

[23:10] <Bill> Was she in it, then?

[23:10] <Agincourtdb> it doesn't matter... I was just trying to set up a 'wish she would rub me the wrong way' joke

[23:10] <Dan> OK folks, I'm officially on vacation for the next 21 days... I'm about to go to bed and snuggle my wife until late tomorrow morning.

[23:10] <Agincourtdb> give her a flourish for us

[23:10] <Lensman> Night Dan.

[23:11] <SeanS> sounds like fun for you, dan ;)

[23:11] <Fred> _02_yes, all 3 women are in it. Mimi Rogers, Heather, and Lacey

[23:11] <Dan> Sean, see you at the party next week. Come as early as you like. Hugs to Julie.

[23:11] <Bill> Heather Graham could rub me ANY WAY SHE WANTS TO ..... I still ain't getting married again!

[23:11] <Fred> _02_play respectively the Mom and her two daughters

[23:11] <SeanS> i cant make it dan

[23:11] <SeanS> didnt realize it was mommy day weekend

[23:11] <Bill> Night, Dan!

[23:12] <Dan> And hugs to everyone here, too. Goodnight

[23:12] <Fred> _02_21 day vacation??

[23:12] <Fred> _02_damn

[23:12] <Bill> Thanks for the cover!

[23:12] <Dan> OK sean, maybe next time.

[23:12] <Fred> _02_enjoy!

[23:12] <Dan> Nighters!

[23:12] <SeanS> i will call you, dan

[23:12] * Dan has quit IRC

[23:13] <Lensman> So, Bill, what are some of your fave animated short subjects?

[23:13] <InvisibleDragon> Hello, anyone still here?

[23:13] <SeanS> hi carol

[23:13] <Agincourtdb> yup

[23:13] <Fred> _02_quit dragon my heart around

[23:13] <InvisibleDragon> LOL

[23:14] <Lensman> Yes we're here Carol

[23:14] <Agincourtdb> she was

[23:14] <Agincourtdb> an american giiirl

[23:14] * InvisibleDragon is now known as FlyingDragon

[23:14] <Bill> Favorites, huh? Hi Carol! Have I told you lately that I love you?

[23:14] <Fred> _02_Lensman, in the TV show, Smith is a ruthless villain for the first 5 eps

[23:14] <Fred> _02_the reason they don't space him is 'cause they almost immediately crash

[23:14] <SeanS> thats what i was remembering, fred

[23:14] <Lensman> Okay. I haven't seen any of those.

[23:14] <Fred> _02_by the time they find out he's evil, they're stuck on Preplanus

[23:14] <FlyingDragon> No, Bill, you have not told me lately that you love me. You may now do so!

[23:15] <Fred> _02_and by the time they get back into space again, it's a new season, and the show had turned into a comedy

[23:15] <Agincourtdb> has he told you there's no one above you

[23:15] <Agincourtdb> you fill his heart with gladness

[23:15] <Agincourtdb> take away all his sadness

[23:15] <Lensman> ...well except Master Ho...

[23:15] <Agincourtdb> ease is trouble, thats what you do

[23:15] <FlyingDragon> Agincourt, you quoting a song?????

[23:15] <Agincourtdb> yup

[23:16] <Agincourtdb> Van Morrison

[23:16] <FlyingDragon> I beleive I've heard of him before.

[23:16] <Agincourtdb> lol

[23:16] <Agincourtdb> yeah

[23:16] <Fred> _02_it's a wonderful night for a moondance

[23:16] <Agincourtdb> oh, oh.

[23:16] <Agincourtdb> domino

[23:16] <FlyingDragon> Wonderful night to sleep on my new mattress.

[23:17] <Agincourtdb> god I need a new mattress

[23:17] <Fred> _02_I hope the store didn't fleece you

[23:17] <SeanS> temperpedic rules

[23:17] <Bill> "Bambi VS Godzilla." "The Critic." "2001: A Special Odyssey" (sorry, you have to love your own work or what's the use.)

[23:17] <FlyingDragon> My martial arts masters gave me their old mattress and bought a sleep number. She likes it soft, he likes it hard. This mattress is... firm.

[23:17] <Agincourtdb> bambi vs godzilla is a work of brilliance

[23:17] <Lensman> Oh yah "Bambi vs. Godzilla". A true classic!

[23:17] <Bill> "SCREAMING EVIL DEATH!"

[23:17] <FlyingDragon> But, still, it is a used mattresss.

[23:17] <Fred> _02_yeah, I want a sleep number

[23:18] * Agincourtdb gives Fred a sleep number: thirty two.

[23:18] <FlyingDragon> I think I'd love a soft setting. Then I'm make it hard to get up!!!!

[23:18] <Fred> _02_lol

[23:18] <Fred> _02_I sleep better on my nice soft couch than I do the rock hard bed I'm stuck on at Moms

[23:18] <Agincourtdb> I like a hard mattress and lots of pillows

[23:18] <Fred> _02_but I suspect it would vary night to night

[23:18] <Lensman> I've got "Screaming Evil Death" on the MTV "Wet Shorts" DVD. Not *quite* my cup of tea, but I can see the amusement value.

[23:20] <Bill> "I went to my local corner grocery for a while but quit when I found out they were pandering to the lesbian market ... they had a sign in the window that said 'Milk -- $2.59, Gal Homo!' -- I moved on"

[23:20] <Fred> _02_moooooooooooooved on

[23:20] <Agincourtdb> lol

[23:21] <Agincourtdb> dude, you knew where the lesbians shop and you didn't camp out with a long lens camera???

[23:21] <Agincourtdb> ;-)

[23:21] <Agincourtdb> ladies and gentlemen, my fratboy impression

[23:21] <Fred> _02_long lensman camera

[23:21] <Lensman> A lady friend of mine dragged me to a silent film fest. Most aren't to my taste, but there was a WONDERFUL short called "The Cameraman's Revenge", early (1914?) stop-motion animation, using beetle parts! The Russian animator tried using live bugs but they didn't cooperate, so he built his own "puppets" with hard bug parts. The film is a bedroom farce. I liked it enough to buy a collection of the animator's works on DVD, it's called "The Cameraman's

[23:22] <Bill> Sorry, trying to get divorced from one. Not funny from my (agin)court

[23:23] <FlyingDragon> Sounds real funny.

[23:24] <Lensman> Lensman camera, hmmm. I was at an e-bay chat site and they thought I was a photographer... it took me awhile to realize it was because of my handle! Mundanes are so alien... ;-)

[23:24] <Agincourtdb> lol

[23:25] <Bill> There were a couple of INCREDIBLY funny not-quite-animated shorts based around a character named "Blaze Glory" that if you haven't seen, Lens, will BLOW YOUR MIND! Cliche' westerns without any horses ... ROTFL! c. 1975 or so

[23:25] <Lensman> It was very nice when I joined the "War of the Worlds" forum and several members there immediately got the Lensman reference. I knew I had found a new home right away.

[23:26] <FlyingDragon> I can't stay on. I have to make up my bed and put the kids down.

[23:26] <Agincourtdb> not in the veterinary sense I hope

[23:26] <FlyingDragon> GOtta figure which side is the least bit softer for me. MIght have to turn the mattress!!!!

[23:26] <Fred> _02_"this one's short"

[23:26] <SeanS> lipstick and blush on the bed, eh?

[23:27] <FlyingDragon> No, agincourt.

[23:27] <Bill> I knew Verna from MosCons ... Doc Smith was part of my background. Good night, Carol. Have a better dsay

[23:27] <Fred> _02_don't forget to apply a light base to the mattress before you make it up

[23:27] <FlyingDragon> I'm not certian she wears lipstick. THe softer side woudl be the side Master sir slept on since he weights more than master ma'am.

[23:27] <Agincourtdb> I turned my matress the other day because there was a whole in it...and i found a whole in the bottom

[23:27] <FlyingDragon> TY, fred.

[23:27] <Agincourtdb> i defnitely need a new one

[23:27] <FlyingDragon> night

[23:28] <Agincourtdb> a hole that is

[23:28] <Agincourtdb> night

[23:28] <Lensman> Those are live actors "animated" with pixilation, right? That's a style of animation we never used in our two previous film fests. We're doing comedy this year. I really should check out "Blaze Glory". Wonder if it's available on DVD?

[23:28] <SeanS> night carol, thanks for earlier

[23:28] * FlyingDragon is now known as InvisibleDragon

[23:28] <Bill> brb, biobreak and a piece of pizza that needs to be nuked.

[23:29] <Fred> _02_gonna see if Mom needs playing with, bbl

[23:29] <Agincourtdb> ok I'm going too

[23:29] <Agincourtdb> later all

[23:29] * Agincourtdb has quit IRC

[23:30] <Lensman> Goodnite to all leaving.

[23:32] <SeanS> i left to go to a derby party about a quarter of five eastern. did the chat pick up between then and now?

[23:35] <Bill> (Bsack) Dunno, Sean, I got here late ... I heard about Frank's passing and had to make some arrangements.

[23:36] <Lensman> I had to attend a mandatory party, just got back a few hours ago.

[23:36] <Bill> Are we the only ones left?

[23:36] <Lensman> I guess neither Larry nor Ed Lerner made it in today?

[23:36] <Lensman> May be. HEY NICK ARE YOU THERE??

[23:36] <SeanS> i dont know... was gone

[23:36] <Bill> not on my watch ...

[23:37] <SeanS> i have it logged but it is almost 12 so i am not going to check tonight

[23:37] <Bill> *:37 by Central Washington time.

[23:38] <Lensman> Well I've got the entire chat in my mIRC since I signed in this morning, but haven't had time to read it all yet. I didn't see "Organlegger" anywhere I scanned, anyway.

[23:38] <Bill> ^8:37^

[23:38] <SeanS> he has been coming in as larry lately

[23:38] <Lensman> Oh, thanx.

[23:38] <SeanS> np

[23:39] <SeanS> the news about frank hit me hard this morning

[23:39] <Lensman> Has anyone heard anthing about an ARC for /Fleet of Worlds/? Cat asked on the list if the delay in the book meant the ARCs were not out, so apparently he never got the one that someone was spoze to send him.

[23:40] <Lensman> I wish I had had the opportunity to meet Frank in person.

[23:40] <Bill> Lens, I'm gonna try to pick up some of these Fleischer "Gulliver" DVDs from the Dollar Store ... the art on the cover is obnoxiously bad but it's the best I've seen for copies of the Paramount feature. I'd be glad to send you one.

[23:40] <SeanS> thats the last i got, david, if the book got bumbed back i can onlly assume that the arc did as well

[23:41] <Lensman> Er well thanks but if you send me your artwork that's really more than I would have expected as a "thanks". If it's at the dollar store surely I can find a copy?

[23:41] <SeanS> i talked to frank and peggy all the time on the phone but never met them either. regardless, i considered frank and peggy good friends

[23:43] <Bill> You wish. They had about 5 and they throw "trash" out ... based on most of the stuff they carry, I'd guess most of it was trashed. It was by accident that I found out what I had ...

[23:43] <Lensman> I'm embarrassed at the stuff people want to send me. A lurker on the List sent me a private e-mail and offered me a copy of the Ringworld RPG "Companion" as a thanks for all my posts, after that week where we hammered out what the *real* reason was for building the Ringworld. I informed him that those things were worth their weight in gold on e-bay, and he should find someone who didn't already have a copy!

[23:44] <Lensman> Okay, okay, so send me the "Gulliver's Travels" DVD too. You're just setting me up to say "I will do you this favor. But someday I will come to you and ask for something in return. And you will do this thing for me."

[23:45] <Lensman> :)

[23:46] <Bill> Sean, Frank was simply the *one* filksinger you wanted at any convention, anywhere. He was a card, he was fun to listen to and a consummate performer. And he's the *ONLY* person besides me to perform "The Ballad of Apollo XIII" correctly, even Leslie blew it when she published it.

[23:46] <SeanS> i understand

[23:46] <Bill> And, no, Dave, I don't ask for favors. Phandom has done that for me.

[23:47] <SeanS> he was so pissed when his hands wouldnt work well for him

[23:47] <Bill> I'm hoping to pay them back in the time I have left.

[23:47] <Lensman> I think I should dig out my WesterCon Filk book and get you to tell me what the error is.

[23:48] <Bill> Errors, perhaps ... Which Westercon?

[23:49] <Lensman> Hmmm, it's not in the /Westerfilk/ collection. And I don't see my smaller filk zines. Oh, well.

[23:51] <Lensman> I put most of my books in order after joining the LN list because I wanted to be able to reference them, but my magazines are still in disarray.

[23:51] <Bill> I wrote the song in about 1978, I think it was about 1979 that I met "The Other Bill Warren" at a Westercon in LA, and I met Frank at Iguanacon in Phoenix.

[23:52] <SeanS> got a copy of apollo XIII on mp3 that you can send me?

[23:53] <Lensman> So, you were doing fan art decades ago, but only recently pro art? Is that right?

[23:53] * Hippy has joined #knownspace

[23:53] <SeanS> hi DJ

[23:53] <Hippy> Howdy, Sean

[23:53] <Lensman> Welcome Hippy

[23:53] <Hippy> Good evening, Lensman Sad news, isn't it?

[23:54] <Bill> Can't be right ... I was living in California when St. Helens blew ...Sorry, Sean, Leslie might (Minus Ten And Counting is the album) but Frank and I had planned to build a duet before his heart attack. Hello, Hippy! Welcome aboard.

[23:55] <Hippy> Hello, Bill. It's good to be here.

[23:55] <Lensman> Yes. I can't say I found it as much of a shock as some did-- one or two of the e-mail reports made it clear "we're trying to be optimistic"-- but still it was a shock and a real letdown after hoping he was recovering.

[23:56] <Hippy> You got that right. I toasted his mrmory last night over a few vinos - which explains why I'm so late on today.

[23:56] <SeanS> every beer i cracked today was aimed at phoenix

[23:56] <Hippy> What a lovely phrase!

[23:57] <Bill> "Pinky" and I commisserated over this at some length, Lens ... he's a part-time EMT and his wife is an RN ... that age, that much stress, diabetes, everything else ,,, it was pretty clear. Not happy truths, but truths.

[23:58] <Bill> I tip my beer toward the Phoenix ... may it rise yet again!

[23:58] <SeanS> night before i found out i mentioned out of the blue to my girlfriend that i didnt think i would ever talk to frank again

[23:59] <SeanS> woke up this morning and had an email from carol telling me

[23:59] <Bill> And I pawed through two dozen stacks of videos to find "Flight Of The Phoenix" and didn't know why ... and wasn't satisfied until I found one of them!

Session Time: Sun May 06 00:00:00 2007

[00:00] <Lensman> http://www.hobbyspace.com/Music/music7.html

[00:00] <Bill> The new one, sadly ... I know Frank liked the Jimmy Stewart version better.

[00:00] <Lensman> "Minus 10 and Counting" is listed above. Not sure if you can order it there or not.

[00:01] <Lensman> Oh, Pinky knew him well? That doesn't surprise me if Frank was a big space fan.

[00:02] <Bill> 's'okay, Lens ... Kelly and I illustrated the songbook, we signed each others'.

[00:03] <Bill> No, Pinky only met Frank at Worldcon '84 ...

[00:03] <Bill> But they had much in common

[00:04] <Bill> I do meet such interesting people in my circle of friends ... you all included

[00:04] <Hippy> Why, thank you :)

[00:04] <SeanS> thank you, bill

[00:04] <Lensman> Thank you. Bill, have you done any other Niven illos?

[00:04] <Bill> Why, you're welcome!

[00:06] <Bill> Well, I did *one* when I was AGOH at a V-Con in Vancouver, Canada, but it was more like making fun of Frank Herbert, who was GOH at the con.

[00:06] <Lensman> Oh?

[00:07] * Hippy afk for much-needed tea

[00:07] <Bill> I did an imaginary book cover for a novel by Niven and Herbert, using the best shit I could steal from John Schoenherr and Rick Sternbach. Muad'dib calling the Maker with the infinite Arch in the sky ...

[00:08] <Bill> Sorry in advance for this ...

[00:08] <Lensman> "Maker" is a sandworm, right?

[00:08] <Bill> Yes

[00:09] <Bill> The imaginary novel was "Ringworm"

[00:09] <Lensman> Aarghh!

[00:09] <Bill> Neither author ever let me forget how tasteless it was, but they laughed.

[00:10] <Hippy> LOL!!! I just got back to see that. Well done!!

[00:10] <Lensman> Hippy, since you just came in, I'll ask you the same: Do you know of any Known Space fan art I could use for my Concordance website, or do you have any contact info for any artist whose art is at the Known Space website?

[00:11] <Hippy> I'm afriad I don't have any of that info, Lensman

[00:12] <Hippy> I suppose it would have to be fan art? Rick Sternbach's cover for 'Tales of Known Space' is pretty good, though you'd have to pay to use it, I suppose

[00:12] <Bill> I sure wish I knew where that original went ... it was a tiny little thing, about the size of a postcard ...

[00:13] <Lensman> Some of the digital paintings at the Known Space site are gorgeous. I hope I can find who did those and get permission to use them on my site too. Bill's "Lying Bastard" painting is wonderful to have on the front page, but I'd like more for other sections of the site.

[00:14] <Bill> Sternbach has a sense of humor, you might ask him! (Or I could try, I haven't spoken to him for a while.) He put a McDonald's on the Ringworld, he has a sense of humor!

[00:14] <Lensman> Obviously I'm not going to pay for pro art for a fan site. This website isn't intended to be profitable.

[00:14] <Hippy> That dates it. It'd be a Starbucks now

[00:14] <Lensman> Sure I could ask, but I don't know what his contract with Del Rey is or was.

[00:15] <Hippy> Well, the phrase 'scan it and steal it' comes to mind, but it might be a bit risky

[00:17] <Lensman> Wikipedia apparently thinks it's okay to post anything as long as you claim it's "low resolution". But that's never been established in court. Anyway, this website will be my masterwork and I'm not gonna compromise it by using behavior whose ethics I disapprove of.

[00:17] <Bill> ASK HIM! How long has it been, and at the resolution you're running for a website, what does he lose and gain? A market for gis prints (gain) a bit of exposure to a vertical audience (gain) and people stealing an image they can print out on their home computers that's good enough to undercut his market...? (Sorry, not a chance ... you're giving him free advertising! He'll go for it!)

[00:17] <Lensman> Thanks for the encouragement Bill!

[00:19] <Hippy> There you go. I disapprove of the 'steal it' thing, too, but Bill's arguments are quite correct. He painted the thing 32 years ago so there'd be people interested in Niven who've never even seen it

[00:21] <Bill> Rick is a straight-up guy, you can make a deal with him. He still owes me some Illustrator files for his Skateboard (74656) but I think he'd be amenable to allowing you to use some of his Niven art. Now, whether the PUBLISHERS would allow it, THERE'S another question...

[00:21] <Lensman> Could be they haven't seen it. The Wikipedia site has some art, but not Sternbach's.

[00:21] <Lensman> It does have that bizarre first-edition cover with the Ringworld habitat rotated 90 degrees.

[00:22] <Bill> Publishers yet again, Lens ...

[00:22] <Lensman> Which means...?

[00:23] <Lensman> That was 1970. I wonder if it was a lingering trace of the abstract art which disgraced so many SF books back then, or if the artist really didn't read the book enuff to understand what he was painting.

[00:24] <Lensman> I should say, disgraced them in the '60s.

[00:25] <Bill> Rick told me about an art director that didn't want to buy his cover painting because it wasn't realistic enough. So on his next assignment, he painted a life-sized fly cattywompus on the border of the painting. The whole time this same asshole AD was saying the painting wasn't realistic, he kept swatting at the fly Rick put there to expose the guy as a jerk. True tale. A Niven cover.

[00:28] <Bill> Sternbach will work with you, I'd almost bet.

[00:28] <Hippy> That is magnificent!

[00:31] <Lensman> Yes, that's a great tale!

[00:32] <Fred> _02_reading back . . . for some reason I was sure Frank would pull out of it :\

[00:32] <Fred> _02_I was putting together some audio book stuff for him

[00:33] <Bill> Artists are always looking for a market and for exposure (and I don't necessarily mean 'personal' exposure) but ask us ... most of the old timers learned from Kelly Freas, whose motto was "Anything I know is yours!"

[00:36] <Bill> Speaking of "personal exposure", I'm going to add for the newcomers ... Please check out the website of one of the Niven Chatters, http://www.aphelion-webzine.com/ ... and I'll brag here a bit, I got to do their cover art this month. Hope you like it!

[00:36] <Fred> _02_cool bill

[00:36] <Lensman> Bill, I'm sure you're better at this sort of thing than I, being an artist: The Ringworld has a radius of 92 million miles, which means it's 184 million miles across and one million miles wide. You couldn't possibly do a painting in scale showing both a near and far section, could you? At a ratio of 1:182, the far side would be invisibly thin. I think.

[00:36] <Bill> Thank you, sir Fred

[00:37] <Lensman> My only objection is there's no way to blow the painting up. *Boom!* No, I mean... ;-)

[00:37] <Bill> Depends on your lens, Lens.

[00:38] <Lensman> LOL! Walked right into that one, didn't I.

[00:38] <Bill> How would Hubble see it? Pretty flat, IMHO

[00:38] <Fred> _02_sure you can see both sides

[00:39] <Lensman> It would depend on the viewing angle. Ringworld's plane of rotation intersects the galactic core, but I have no idea which direction it lies from Earth.

[00:40] <Fred> _02_yeah, but from Earth, you'd have so much magnification on it that both sides would be the same size

[00:41] <Lensman> Obviously it would be more visible with the underside facing the viewer than seen as a perfect circle, in which case you'd see only the 1000 mile high rim walls and not the million-mile wide ring.

[00:41] <Bill> No, I discovered when I did the tee shirt for Larry's appearance ar RadCon in February ... you would NOT see the outside of the ring, but you *WOULD* see reflected light from the inner face of the Ring to the outer face of the Shadow Squares, which basically means you'd never have a moonless night on the inner face of the Ring.

[00:41] <Lensman> That's true, Fred.

[00:42] <Fred> _02_you pretty much wouldn't see anything as a 'perfect circle' -- that would be the black outside of the rim walls with no light source :)

[00:42] <Lensman> That's true, seeing the underside is only by artistic license. At least in the visible light spectrum. In infrared, it would be different.

[00:42] <Fred> _02_you'd be seeing the star, and a thousand mile black circle at a 93m mile radius

[00:43] <Bill> And even with Hubble's visual acuity, an edge-on view of the ring (perpendicular to the axis of rotation) would be invisible

[00:43] <Lensman> You'd get a lot of "earthshine" from the lit portions of the ring, even if the backside of the shadow squares are perfectly non-reflective black.

[00:44] <Fred> _02_yes

[00:44] <Bill> My point

[00:44] <Fred> _02_I think the easiest way around that is to dim the sun a bit

[00:44] <Bill> LOL...

[00:44] <Fred> _02_IIRC, the ringworld primary is cooler than Sol anyway

[00:44] <Fred> _02_gah, dimmer

[00:45] <Lensman> LOL yeah, who needs shadow squares? TURN THAT LIGHT OFF WE'RE TRYING TO SLEEP! <click>

[00:45] <Bill> And make some son less dim as President ... ooops, sorry, did I say that out loud?

[00:47] <Bill> Frank would have approved ... he liked puns.

[00:47] <Lensman> Of course, in this case you still get light for 8 minutes after the <click>, but-- what is it they say?-- everthing has the flaws of its virtues. Or something to that effect.

[00:49] <Bill> Who among us has been witness to a total solar eclipse? I was fortunate enough once, and it's the closest thing I can compare to a Shadow Square encroachment.

[00:49] <Fred> _02_oops. I was right the first time. Cooler.

[00:50] <Fred> _02_" The sun itself was a yellow dwarf somewhat cooler than Sol and a touch smaller."

[00:50] <Lensman> I've seen a total lunar eclipse but not, I think, a total solar one.

[00:51] <Lensman> That Allan Quatermain was pretty lucky, I'd say. <g>

[00:52] <Bill> So, is Sol a G0 (zero) star, and would that make a "slightly cooler and smaller" sun a high "F" or a low "G1"

[00:52] <Hippy> Saw a total solar one in 1976

[00:52] <Fred> _02_the ringworld sun is a G2

[00:52] <Bill> Where, Hippy? (Mine was in 1978)

[00:53] <Hippy> Melbourne, Australia

[00:53] <Lensman> OBAFGKM. F stars are hotter, K stars are cooler. So after G9 the next category would be K0.

[00:53] <Hippy> Ah, thanks, Fred. I was just going to rush down and grab Ringworld Engineers to find that out

[00:53] <Bill> Thank you, Fred! Helpful news, if I'm going to be contributing to Lensman's Concordance.

[00:54] <Lensman> I would cheat and look at the Ringworld RPG's stats on the Ringworld and its sun.

[00:55] <Hippy> Now, I just read that the smallest resolvable line to the human eye is about 10 microns, so you could paint the far side of the Ringworld that big and the near side would be 1820 microns wide

[00:55] <Fred> _02_I read Chyron's original briefing to the motley crew

[00:55] <Fred> _02_I was sure that's where I remembered dimmer or cooler from

[00:55] <Hippy> Oops. I mean 100 microns and 18200 microns

[00:55] <Bill> I understood there were four new categories of star after that old saw ... Classes N,D,I, and Q.

[00:55] <Lensman> G2 would be cooler than G0, is that right? I think so.

[00:56] <Bill> "Oh, Be A Fine Girl, Kiss Me! Now, Do It Quick!"

[00:56] <Hippy> That's right. But then in one of the later books it does mention K9 for the star's spectrum type

[00:57] <Hippy> Now there's a mnemonic - Good God, I need one to remember how to spell it

[00:57] <Fred> _02_we just HAVE to ignore the later books :)

[00:57] <Lensman> Wow! Oh Be A Fine Girl Kiss Me Right Now, Smack! ... if you want the whole mnemonic.

[00:58] <Hippy> This may sound like blasphemy but I would put 'Ringworld's Children' in that pile.

[00:58] <Fred> _02_LOL, I googled for yellow dwarfs and it brought up Jim Loy's known space page

[00:58] <Lensman> D, I and Q class stars? Is that an obscure joke or is my astronomical knowledge that far out of date?

[00:59] <Fred> _02_spectral types are OBAFGKM

[00:59] <Fred> _02_P & Q are non stellar spectral types

[01:00] <Lensman> Some people get upset when I talk about the Discontinuity between the early KS series-- 1976 and before-- and the later KS series. As though the later series was an alternate-universe KS. Starting with RE.

[01:00] <Bill> I think either Poul Anderson or Ted Sturgeon speculated with me over those classifications one night in an inebriated stupor. They both had wicked senses of humor.

[01:00] * Hippy AFK (another mnemonic?) for another much-needed tea

[01:00] <Lensman> OBAFGKM are the normal spectrum, W R N S are the strange ones.

[01:00] <Fred> _02_Hippy, I agree with you about Ringworld's Children

[01:01] <Fred> _02_too much of it contradicts Ringworld and Ringworld Engineers

[01:01] <Fred> _02_If I have to throw out something, it's going to be Children

[01:02] <Bill> Hey, but Lens, I was *muy* impressed with some of the art you gathered for the "Get Well Cards" ... the Protector piece knocked my sox off and stole every image I had, but better!

[01:03] <Lensman> Specifically what contradictions are you talking about? I know there are some, but maybe I missed a few.

[01:03] <Fred> _02_big problems with teela

[01:03] <Lensman> Thanks! But that Protector image is right off one of the paperback editions.

[01:03] <Fred> _02_who's 20 in Ringworld, but way older when she first hits the ring in Children

[01:04] <Lensman> Oh yes, I had forgotten that one. And don't try to match the dates given in RE with the timeline in RT, either.

[01:05] <Fred> _02_okay, it looks like the higher the number in the stellar classification, the older and cooler the star is

[01:05] <Fred> _02_so G0 is younger and hotter, G2 is older and cooler

[01:05] <Lensman> That's what I thought, a higher number is cooler.

[01:05] <Fred> _02_took me WAY too long to confirm that

[01:06] <Fred> _02_but sol is G2V

[01:06] <Fred> _02_so now I'm more confused than ever

[01:06] <Lensman> I don't think necessarily older, tho. The age limit increases, but a star burns at a certain temp according to its mass, not its age, until it reaches the end of its normal lifespan.

[01:06] <Lensman> "V" means what? variable?

[01:07] <Fred> _02_The V (Roman five) suffix indicates that the Sun, like most stars, is a main sequence star.

[01:07] <Bill> We live in an infinite universe filled with infinite quanta universes, children. Don't bicker ... somewhere the Captain of the Starship Enterprise really looks like BillShat without the rug and Patrick Stewart has a Jimi Hendrix afro.

[01:07] <Fred> _02_lol, suddenly I'm hearing the narrator from forbidden planet

[01:08] <Fred> _02_THE GREAT MAIN SEQUENCE STAR ALTAIR

[01:09] <Lensman> RPG says it's a "dG3e verging on dG2e", with a mass 0.97 Sol. I have no idea what the "d" and "e" designations mean.

[01:09] <Fred> _02_G stars range from 5k to 6k. Sol is 5.5k, so the ringworld primary (which needs a name, tanjit) is between 5.5k and 5k

[01:09] <Bill> Which star, and planet, Enterprise TOS was on its way to when Spock went into Ponn Farr. (Interesting, the C-57-D entered standard orbit at 1701 shipboard time ... FYI

[01:09] <Fred> _02_yes, I noticed that

[01:10] <Fred> _02_we watched FP the other night

[01:10] <Bill> Gene had a lot of fun with that show, however much heartbreak it caused him

[01:11] <Fred> _02_They were headed for Altair 6, btw

[01:11] <Lensman> Yah, it's really strange the Ringworld's sun never got a name in four novels. "Ringworld Parameters" in RE says "G3 verging on G2, barely smaller and cooler than Sol."

[01:11] <Fred> _02_be nice if it was cooler enough that the added light from the arch ended up being earth normal

[01:12] <Bill> It's no wonder you're doing the Concordance. Really, Lens, could I be of service?

[01:12] <Lensman> LOL yah people express disbelief when I tell them that much of Trek's tech and even the hull # comes from "Forbidden Planet".

[01:12] <Lensman> Bill: Art. I need art. Other than that, do you have any web building skills?

[01:13] <Hippy> NOw that is interesting. I will have to watch FP again, after I get through the rest of Season 1 of "Lost in Space'

[01:13] <Fred> _02_Lost in Space and The Time Tunnel owe more to FP than Trek does, IMHO

[01:13] <Hippy> The game says the star is '200 Coma Berenices' if I recall correctly. But the natives never seem to name it

[01:14] <Bill> And both of those selections (Altair VI) were Ted Sturgeon's work.

[01:14] <Lensman> Pay particular attention to the opening scene *before* they land on the planet. Listen to the opening narration and the tech talk. The 1701 number is in the tech-talk.

[01:15] <Fred> _02_Chyron says the ringworld sun is EC-1752

[01:15] <Hippy> I"d do that right now but I'd have to change computers. I'll definitely listen to it more thoroughly. (It's amazing how inattentive I seem to be.)

[01:16] <Hippy> Okay, now that we're on to Trek, you have to see this: http://granades.com/2007/05/02/loltrek/

[01:16] <Bill> Web-building ... What do I look like, a spider? If I had any web-building experience, you'd all be grousing at my ham-handed trewatment of Kubrick by now. But art ... yes, tell me what you'd like to see, I know Larry well enough that I can ask what I don't know and his work well enough to fake much of the rest.

[01:16] <Lensman> Oh don't feel bad. *I* wouldn't have known except for the Laser Rangers discussion and the fact that the co-founder of Laser Rangers is a fanatic about FP. He knows all this stuff and went into it in some detail in his film notes when we ran that movie.

[01:17] <Lensman> Sorry Bill... you said you don't have your own website, I shoulda known.

[01:18] <Fred> _02_we watched the special edition of FP, and ran the alternate narration too

[01:18] <Lensman> But really, what sort of help did you have in mind? If you did illos for Bjo's Concordance, you could do some line drawings which could be scanned in for mine. At least I presume that would be quicker and easier for you to do than digital paintings.

[01:18] <Hippy> Well, you have now convinced me to get that special edition

[01:20] <Fred> _02_I got it for Xmas. Comes with a toy robot. :)

[01:20] <Lensman> What would I like to see? I suppose mainly, drawings of the different KS species, mainly, I suppose. Or an illo for any story or stories in KS.

[01:21] <Lensman> Bill, do you have a scanner?

[01:21] <Bill> Depends on what you want, Lens. I'm pretty good at digital these days, they even look like scratchboard and pen/ink. In fact, when Stan Schmidt looked at my piece for "Vertex" (Analog, sometime late this year) he said he wished he could run it in color.

[01:22] <Bill> Yes, I have a scanner. I seldom use it.

[01:22] <Lensman> Well of course color would be even better! I was just thinking I'd be more likely to get a greater number of illos if you dashed off a few (or several) quick line drawings.

[01:23] <Lensman> Anyway I'll send you the descriptions of various races and leave it in your capable hands.

[01:23] <Fred> _02_speaking of ham handed treatment of Kubrick

[01:23] <Bill> 3DS MAX, POSER, and Photoshop are my tools of choice these days. I carry prismacolor pencils and sharpies to entertain crowds. I do paintings for my friends.

[01:24] <Fred> _02_why did no one (but me) do a 2001 calendar for, you know, 2001?

[01:24] <Lensman> You understand, I hope, that I can offer no remuneration except my thanks and whatever exposure my website can give you. I don't know how much that will wind up being.

[01:25] <Lensman> Fred: I dunno, some of us *still* think 2001 was the best SF movie ever made.

[01:25] <Bill> Fred, why didn't MGM release the full-length version of "2001" in "2001" that I remember seeing in theaters?

[01:26] <Bill> EVEN ON DVD!??

[01:26] <Bill> FOR PURISTS??

[01:27] <Bill> Lens: Look in this eye (this one right here.)

[01:27] <Bill> Do you see any concern?

[01:27] <Bill> There isn't any in this one either.

[01:28] <Hippy> You've got a nice turn of phrase there, Bill

[01:28] <Bill> Thank you, Hippy. I owe it to Roger Tener.

[01:28] <Lensman> Leonard Maltin sez "Cut by 17 minutes after premiere, by Kubrick himself."

[01:29] <Lensman> LOL! Bill, I was pretty sure you understood that when I said "fan art" I meant "free", but I just wanted to be sure there was no misunderstanding.

[01:30] <Bill> Ah, but what a spectaculat 17 minutes! The rendezvous/docking sequence suffered most. And Maltin is a dweeb, younger than m. He wasn't old enough to go to the movies by himself. (I was a soph in HS when it opened.)

[01:32] <Fred> _02_Maltin's like Richard Schickel. He has people that go to the movies for him.

[01:32] <Fred> _02_The only difference is, he admits it.

[01:33] <Lensman> *Shrug* Nonetheless I suspect Maltin knows of what he says. If there was no "extended DVD version" then it's most likely because Kubrick didn't want one. He insisted the aspect ratio on "Dr. Strangelove" be restored to his orignal Golden Aspect Ratio (4:3) on the new version of the DVD even tho the studio put the theatrical release out widescreen.

[01:33] <Bill> They butchered "2001" a couple of times after Kubrick's cut ... I know.

[01:34] <Lensman> That's true, Leonard Maltin's Guide is a group effort; he's the editor rather than the author. Is that a surprise? 19,000 entries is a bit much for one person!

[01:35] <Bill> Who besides me recalls that the first time you saw the Station, it was angled-on, rotating like a pie-plate on the floor near your feet but getting closer and closer ... and you went through the spokes of the rotating wheels?

[01:37] <Hippy> I have to say that I recall little of the movie after the apes bit. Call me a Philistine, but I don't like Kubrick

[01:37] <Lensman> I can't. My memory has *never* been that good. 1968 was a long time ago. Actually that's before I moved to K.C., there's no way I ever saw it in its first run.

[01:37] <Bill> It's OK, hippy, Kubrick didn't like us much either. Hence, "2001"

[01:38] <Bill> :D

[01:39] <Lensman> I certainly don't like all Kubrick's films. I can't bear to watch "A Clockwork Orange", and "Eyes Wide Shut" was pretty dire. "Barry Lyndon" didn't work for me, either. (Why try to make a *motion* *picture* like as series of still paintings?) But "2001" and "Dr. Strangelove" are brilliant!

[01:40] <Bill> Kubrick was a consummate filmmaker, to hell with public opinion. If he wanted B-52s flying over Russian steppes throwing shadowd of B-17s, that was perfectly OK for the story he was telling.

[01:40] <Fred> _02_A friend of mine is this huge Kubrick fan

[01:41] <Fred> _02_he was horrified when he didn't like Eyes Wide Shut

[01:41] <Fred> _02_he went to it over and over and over and over and over again until he convinced himself he liked it

[01:41] <Hippy> Who could like anything that both Cruise and KIdman in it? The horror, the horror. . .

[01:41] <Lensman> LOL! Hey, there are even stories by My Favorite Author I don't care for.

[01:42] <Hippy> Which ones?

[01:42] <Fred> _02_remember Ebert had a special show with half a dozen critics, all trying to convince the audience that they HAD to like EWS?

[01:42] <Bill> I only have a problem with "Full Metal Jacket" ... and that because it's too damn close to cinema verite.

[01:43] <Lensman> Oh, "Tedric", "Lord Tedric", the revised "Triplanetary"... <Lensman whistles and looks at the ceiling innocently.>

[01:44] <Lensman> *

[01:45] <Hippy> And here I was thinking that Niven was your favourite author

[01:45] <Fred> _02_you hear they cast rosie odonnell as Wonder Woman?

[01:45] <Fred> _02_http://tinyurl.com/2ma59c

[01:45] <Lensman> -/Subspace Explorer/ was pretty dire, too. Altho oddly enuff I liked the sequel /Subspace Survivors/.

[01:45] <Bill> Please , please, Lensman, be aware of what you're displaying! (What part of a human body looks like a (*)?)

[01:46] <Lensman> Hippy: Now you know why I was looking *too* innocent. :-) No way am I gonna start a discussion of "Which Niven stories don't I like" here!

[01:46] <Fred> _02_we already ragged on Ringworld's Children

[01:46] <Hippy> Probably a wise move

[01:47] <Fred> _02_And remember when Larry himself said he was considering a 'director's cut' of Throne that would have put Louis in the action?

[01:47] <Bill> Rosie O'Donnell as Wonder Woman ... O gawd, somebody pass me the mental floss, gouge-gouge-scrape-scrape

[01:47] <Hippy> Yes, we did. And unless Sean mails these logs to Larry himself, we should be safe :)

[01:47] <Lensman> A belly button? <Lensman continues to look overly innocent>

[01:47] <Fred> _02_A belly button or two

[01:47] <Lensman> Hey! I enjoyed RC very much!

[01:48] <Fred> _02_remembers when we thought mariette hartley was hot

[01:48] <Hippy> I sure do!

[01:48] <Lensman> Well yes, the fact that too much of RT was Louis sitting around watching a movie was part of why it's not my favorite Niven story.

[01:48] * Hippy runs to shelf and gets 'All Our Yesterdays' out on DVD and freeze frAmes it

[01:48] <Bill> Mariette Hartley *WAS* hot!! How can you not want to play with a woman with two navels?

[01:49] <Lensman> She WAS hot in her day!

[01:49] <Bill> I'd eat animal flesh with her ANY ice age!

[01:50] <Hippy> Now why does that 'two navels' ring a bell? It's not from 'Star Trek', is it?

[01:50] <Fred> _02_mmmmmmmmmmm, a_____________________________nimal flesh

[01:50] <Fred> _02_no, the two navels is Genesis 2

[01:50] <Fred> _02_One navel for each Genesis

[01:50] <Lensman> Hippy: These discussions are archived, and anyone can read them at any time. I try to say nothing here that's not for public consumption. If you want a private chat, we can go to chatzy.com.

[01:50] <Hippy> Ah, thanks. That would've driven me nuts

[01:50] <Bill> Another Roddenberry project. Tube trains.

[01:51] <Fred> _02_yep

[01:51] <Fred> _02_first of 4 versions of that story

[01:51] <Hippy> That's okay, Lens. Even Niven we don't like is for public consumption

[01:51] <Bill> I'll proudly say in public that I think Mariette Hartley was hot, Hippy.

[01:52] <Lensman> Yes, 2 navels is from Rodenberry's next attempt at an SF TV series, "Genesis 2". And yes, the women had 2 navels. Supposedly Rodenberry's reaction to never being allowed to show a navel on Star Trek.

[01:52] <Hippy> I'd register a domain name called that, Bill

[01:52] <Lensman> I must be getting tired, repeating myself.

[01:52] <Lensman> I must be getting tired, repeating myself.

[01:52] <Lensman> :-)

[01:53] <Fred> _02_They had navels on Trek

[01:53] <Hippy> Never showed a navel? But what about 'The Cloud Minders'? I'm pretty sure. . .well, here's to a few days perving :)

[01:53] <Fred> _02_yep

[01:53] <Fred> _02_Nimoy stuck his finger in it

[01:53] <Bill> Be my guest, Hippy. I'm just hanging on to "Warrenpiece.net"

[01:53] <Fred> _02_that was EXACTLY the one I was thinking of, Hippy :)

[01:53] <Lensman> LOL! Warrenpiece...

[01:54] <Hippy> Yes. . .now, who was that? Damn. . .I should know this instantly

[01:54] <Lensman> Perhaps they showed navels on 3rd season Trek after Roddenberry left the show?

[01:54] <Fred> _02_And I'll bet you quatloos to space donuts that we got navels in MIRROR MIRROR

[01:54] <Fred> _02_Including Uhura's

[01:55] <Lensman> I suspect if you look you'll find no navels. Even that *extremely* revealing costume in "Who Mourns for Adonis?" (yumm!) covered the actress' navel.

[01:56] <Bill> They finally got over the "navels as erogenous zones" trauma when the head of NBC Standards retired in 1969 or so. For ten quatloos, does anybody remember her name?

[01:56] <Fred> _02_Pricilla Goodbody

[01:56] <Bill> FRED WINS!

[01:56] <Lensman> LOL! And some find James Bond names sexist...

[01:56] <Fred> _02_:)

[01:57] <Bill> This is ghod's honest truth, Lens!

[01:57] <Lensman> Oh I don't doubt it.

[01:58] <Bill> Can't you just see Foghorn Leghorn talking to her, and she's going "YuhhAAYuss!"

[01:58] <Hippy> Diana Ewing was who I was thinking of a few sentence ago

[01:58] <Fred> _02_HEY LENSMAN

[01:58] <Fred> _02_http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/mirror/sulu_uhura.jpg

[01:58] <Lensman> Well I have to eat my words, doing a Google image search <"mirror mirror" + uhura> shows a big fat naked navel all right!

[01:58] <Fred> _02_or that

[01:58] <Fred> _02_:)

[01:59] <Bill> Nichelle did her share of nude photography as an aspiring starlet. Dishy, she was!~

[01:59] <Lensman> So what *was* the deal with the navels then? Maybe it was a standard introduced later, after some several of the episodes had been filmed?

[02:00] <Fred> _02_well, we have navels in second season and third season, so far

[02:00] <Bill> "Erogenous Zone Restriction", Lens

[02:00] <Fred> _02_If I can find a first season navel, and I bet I can, then we have them throughout

[02:01] <Fred> _02_another navel

[02:01] <Fred> _02_NOT

[02:01] <Fred> _02_WORK

[02:01] <Fred> _02_SAFE

[02:01] <Fred> _02_http://www.vegasretro.com/glamour/photos/shahna_star_trek2_r.jpg

[02:02] <Hippy> Impressive

[02:02] <Lensman> Oh yah, I've seen that one before. Someone linked to it on a list I'm on. I think the actress became a porn star?

[02:02] <Fred> _02_Yes. or was one already

[02:02] <Fred> _02_vegas showgirl, etc

[02:03] <Bill> There's been my argument since 1968 ... "MORE RAW SEX ON STAR TREK!"

[02:03] <Fred> _02_hmm. all mudds women are covered

[02:04] <Lensman> LOL! That would give new meaning to the term "special edition"...

[02:04] <Lensman> You'll find the "android" women in "What Are Little Girls Made Of" have covered navels too, despite revealing costumes.

[02:04] <Bill> Kirk's Drill Thrall in "Gamesters" was a porn queen ... also very nice lady ... she shows up in Jittlov's "Wizard of Speed and Time" as well

[02:05] <Fred> _02_yes, I know Andrea's costume by heart

[02:05] <Fred> _02_:)

[02:05] <Fred> _02_first season has alarmingly few space babes

[02:05] <Fred> _02_unless one of the bunnys at the end of SHORE LEAVE has a navel, I may have struck out

[02:05] <Hippy> So long as it had Grrace Lee Whitney it didn't need them

[02:06] <Bill> Good thing, too ... back in first season, only Kirk's lips were fat.

[02:06] <Fred> _02_HAH

[02:06] <Fred> _02_http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/showgirls.jpg

[02:07] <Bill> Flakey Grace ... ahh, the wonders of conventions! She was fun to party with.

[02:07] <Lensman> Covered navel:

[02:07] <Lensman> http://www.kontinuum.cz/databaze/epizody/TOS_32_2.jpg

[02:07] <Fred> _02_I leave it to you gentlemen to decide it that's navel or not

[02:07] <Lensman> But hot HOT babe!

[02:08] <Hippy> Well, it seems pretty conclusive that Ms Goodbody's word was law

[02:09] <Fred> _02_and here is navel gold

[02:09] <Fred> _02_http://www.buck-rogers.com/film_and_series/gallery/images/ardala/ardala08.jpg

[02:09] <Lensman> I have no idea if a TV censor qualified a navel with a "pasty" to be "naked" or not. What's Spock's line from "The Last Voyage of the USS Enterprise?"

[02:09] <Fred> _02_is that the National Lampoon story?

[02:09] <Fred> _02_where McCoy has Chapel hooked up to weird devices?

[02:10] * Hippy afk for umbilically inspired tea

[02:10] <Bill> Ah, but was Ms. Goodbody's Law Good?

[02:11] <Lensman> No, first season "Saturday Night Live". Chevy Chase is Spock, tries to read an NBC exec's mind, something like "It was all dark and cold, and little mice scurrying around..." then Spock becomes agitated. Can't remember the line word-for-word.

[02:11] <Bill> I do recall the NatLamp story. May still have it. They knew about Gene and Majel and Nichelle even then.

[02:11] <Fred> _02_oh

[02:11] <Fred> _02_"promise"

[02:12] <Fred> _02_that's Belushi's last line :)

[02:13] <Bill> Mice are smarter than dolphins. Or NBC execs ...

[02:13] <Lensman> Ha, got it:

[02:14] <Bill> He who laughs last ../

[02:14] <Lensman> I entered Mr. Goodman's mind while you were talking to Dr. McCoy, Captain. It was all.. all dark and empty in there. And.. and there were little mice in the corners and spiders had spun this web..

[02:14] <Lensman> But only white mice!

[02:14] <Fred> _02_okay, Yvonne Craig didn't show navel as a green orion slave girl

[02:15] <Fred> _02_but I offer you bonus pink batgirl belly button

[02:15] <Fred> _02_http://www.briansdriveintheater.com/beachparty/ycraig1.jpg

[02:15] <Fred> _02_http://www.briansdriveintheater.com/beachparty/yvonnecraig3.jpg

[02:15] <Lensman> Yvonne Craig. Ah, now SHE was a hottie! Ditto for Alicia Silverstone as Batgirl-- even hotter, yumm!

[02:16] <Bill> NOW YVONNE CRAIG WAS HOT! Her Batgirl, me freshman in high school, quant suff!

[02:16] <Fred> _02_silverstone does nothing for me

[02:16] <Hippy> Yes, Yvonne Craig

[02:16] <Fred> _02_now, Dina Meyer, THERE was a hot batgirl

[02:16] <Lensman> ?

[02:16] <Hippy> Never heard of her

[02:17] <Fred> _02_you never heard of Dina Meyer???_________________________

[02:17] <Bill> Silverstone? Wannabee. Nothing there, nobody home.

[02:17] <Lensman> Should I have?

[02:17] <Fred> _02_Johnny Mnemonic?

[02:17] <Fred> _02_Starship Troopers?

[02:17] <Lensman> Philistines.

[02:17] <Hippy> I shall check on the IMDB

[02:18] <Lensman> Starship Troopers? Ick. But what does that have to do with Batgirl?

[02:18] <Fred> _02_http://www.gothamclocktower.com/publicity4.jpg

[02:18] <Fred> _02_Dina Meyer was the babe in Starship Troopers, and Johnny Mnemonic, and was the hottest Batgirl

[02:19] <Lensman> What was she Batgirl *in*? And NO WAY is she 1/4 as hot as Alicia Silverstone!

[02:19] <Fred> _02_silverstone is too stupid to be hot

[02:19] <Fred> _02_Meyer was Batgirl in the 'Birds of Prey' TV series

[02:19] <Lensman> MMMMM Alicia Silverstone in a rubber suit, I just drool thinking about it...

[02:20] <Hippy> I"m glad Carol isn't here

[02:20] <Fred> _02_watch silverstone give an interview sometime about how dog and cat food is made from ground up puppies and kitties

[02:20] <Fred> _02_apparently because there's pictures of them on the bags

[02:20] <Fred> _02_or how she keeps her cat vegetarian

[02:20] <Bill> I think Denise Richards was the hottie in "ST" ...

[02:20] <Fred> _02_she becomes unattractive real quick

[02:21] <Hippy> Well, Fred, I'm afraid that Ms Meyer can't compete with Ms Craig in the Batgirl stakes

[02:21] <Lensman> I only watched an episode or 2 of BoP, it didn't interest me.

[02:21] <Bill> Well, by marriage.

[02:21] <Fred> _02_BoP was a weird show

[02:22] <Fred> _02_they had a showrunner who had never done the job before

[02:22] <Fred> _02_and was totally screwing it up

[02:22] <Hippy> I must say I do find Denise Richards absolutely delightful

[02:22] <Fred> _02_the network told them to get rid of her

[02:22] <Fred> _02_the production company or studio said no

[02:22] <Lensman> Darryl Hanna comes across pretty vapid in interview shows, too. Doesn't stop me from finding her a turn-on in "Blade Runner" or other movies. Perhaps I have more ability than average in keeping onscreen acting and offscreen personas separate in my mind.

[02:22] <Fred> _02_so the network cancelled the show, and actually gave a press conference naming names

[02:23] <Fred> _02_Hannah is at most a bit vapid. Silverstone is agressively stupid.

[02:23] <Bill> When it comes down to sexist remarks, I stand by Gene Roddenberry. "I think women *should* be treated as sex objects. But I think *men* should be treated as sex objects, too!"

[02:23] <Lensman> What means "showrunner"

[02:23] <Hippy> Now how stupid was the peoduction company there?

[02:23] <Fred> _02_Showrunner is a current term for what used to be 'line producer' -- basically, they're sort of in charge of everything

[02:23] <Lensman> Well, Fred, you're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine.

[02:24] <Fred> _02_Hippy, I agree

[02:24] <Fred> _02_another example was THE SIMPSONS

[02:24] <Fred> _02_Klasky Csupo had a producer that the studio HATED

[02:24] <Bill> Jessica or her sister, Fred?

[02:24] <Fred> _02_they told KC to get rid of her

[02:24] <Fred> _02_KC said 'no'

[02:25] <Fred> _02_so they moved the show to another production company

[02:25] <Fred> _02_I'm not really sure what KC thought they accomplished. The producer lost her job either way.

[02:26] <Hippy> It's just these ridiculous power games they like to play for the sake of playing them

[02:26] <Fred> _02_I mean, if your key client hates the person you've got dealing with them so much that they're going to take their business elsewhere

[02:27] <Fred> _02_It should occur to you you've got a problem

[02:27] <Hippy> The production companies seem to think they're doing the network a service, without realising there are hundreds of other production companies all going for a limited number of slots. So they're in no position to dictate anything

[02:28] <Hippy> Doesn't it make you wonder how people so incompetent get into these positions in the first place?

[02:28] <Bill> And speaking of 'power', I've been up since about 2:30AM Pacific Daylight, I'm running out of gas, gents. I think I'm going to bid you all a fond "good night" and tip one last beer toward Phoenix. Here's to Frank ... long may he wave!

[02:28] <Lensman> The Peter Principle in action, I suppose.

[02:28] <Fred> _02_In my experience, they were hired by people equally incompetent :)

[02:28] <Fred> _02_No Bill

[02:28] <Hippy> To Frank. . .

[02:29] <Fred> _02_These are people that were never good at anything

[02:29] <Fred> _02_they didn't get promoted :)

[02:29] <Fred> _02_TO FRANK!

[02:29] <Hippy> Goodnight, Bill. Nice talking to you

[02:29] <Lensman> Hollywood seems full of execs who apparently have to make arbitrary changes just to demonstrate they have power, even if it's detrimental to a production. Or so I keep reading anyway; haven't had any personal exposure to Hollywood types.

[02:30] <Fred> _02_It's not the Peter Principle. It's some weird, somewhat analogus thing, more like 'right time right place'

[02:30] <Fred> _02_yes, lens, that's typical

[02:30] <Bill> Promotion isn't based on ability ... it's based on the "good ol' boy network". Good night, all. Lens, you have my email

[02:30] <Lensman> G'nite Bill. I think I'll call it a night, too. "It's a night!" :-)

[02:30] <Hippy> That's true of all executives everywhere. It's the new principle - you have to be seen to 'execute' or you're not an executive. There's no concept of governance anymore, though there is the term for it

[02:31] * Lensman has quit IRC

[02:31] <Fred> _02_here's an example. Rachel Talalay was an accountant on the Friday the 13th movies.

[02:31] <Bill> Nice to "meet" you, Hippy. Till next time ...

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[02:31] <Fred> _02_She asked 'can I write the next one' and the studio say 'sure, who gives a hoot about what crap these are'

[02:31] <Hippy> Go on, Fred - ah, you have

[02:32] <Fred> _02_so when the franchise didn't collapse, she asked if she could direct next

[02:32] <Fred> _02_and pretty soon she's got a career

[02:32] <Fred> _02_based on her being an accountant

[02:33] <Hippy> Hmm. Good point. (That wsa going to be my way in, but alas I never qualified as an accountant.)

[02:33] <Fred> _02_a friend of mine at Disney made an interesting observation once

[02:33] <Hippy> Go on

[02:33] <Fred> _02_in Hollywood, once you've directed, NOTHING can derail you, no matter HOW bad what you do is

[02:34] <Fred> _02_the only thing that can stop you is off screen crap, some sort of scandal

[02:34] <Hippy> Interesting. This reminds me of the story of Akiva Goldsberg

[02:34] <Fred> _02_but you can direct failure after failure, and somebody will keep hiring you

[02:34] <Fred> _02_shudder

[02:34] <Hippy> Shudder indeed

[02:34] <Fred> _02_and we're back to the dreadful LOST IN SPACE movie

[02:35] <Hippy> Yes. and 'Charlie's Angels'. And then he gets an Oscar!

[02:35] <Hippy> The 'capacity to fail up' as the editor of the IMDB put it

[02:37] <Fred> _02_heh

[02:38] <Fred> _02_yeah, that's another phenomena that needs a name

[02:38] <Fred> _02_where somebody hires you because you were connected with a hit

[02:38] <Fred> _02_without noticing that you were the BAD part

[02:39] <Fred> _02_I was amazed when Goldsman got an Oscar, since I won't even see something he does anymore

[02:39] <Fred> _02_he's like Joel Schumuker

[02:39] <Hippy> Exactly! In any other industry that would doom you, but not the movies

[02:39] <Fred> _02_on my boycott list :)

[02:40] <Hippy> Goldsman! Stupid Hippy, I've been calling him 'Goldsberg' but you knew who I meant

[02:40] <Fred> _02_yeah. "Akiva" was enough to make my blood run cold.

[02:40] <Hippy> LOL!

[02:40] <Fred> _02_the mother's line in LOST IN SPACE:

[02:40] <Fred> _02_"If you two are done hosing down the deck with testosterone, I've found us a way off this planet"

[02:41] <Fred> _02_and then it turns out SHE HADN'T

[02:41] <Fred> _02_that alone should have been a career ender for Akiva

[02:43] <Hippy> And yet. . .here he is. All he needs now is to direct somethinng and we're stuck with him

[02:43] <Fred> _02_lol, it's almost inevitable

[02:43] <Fred> _02_it's like, the same people wrote CATWOMAN and TERMINATOR 3

[02:44] <Fred> _02_either of those should have been a career ender - but BOTH?

[02:44] <Fred> _02_and yet, they're on track for Terminator 4

[02:45] <Hippy> Bloody hell. Terminator 3 was stupid and should've ended the franchise (although it did have Kristanna Loken)

[02:47] <Fred> _02_and yet we're getting Terminator 4, and the tv series THE SARAH CONNOR CHRONICLES

[02:47] <Fred> _02_Is there really an audience clamoring for more Terminator? 10 years ago, I'd have understood

[02:47] <Hippy> This is not good news for a man with my size hangover. . .

[02:48] <Fred> _02_heh.

[02:48] <Hippy> But movies are doing so badly now they have to try anything

[02:48] <Fred> _02_btw, hippy, what name do you use on the list?

[02:48] <Fred> _02_I'm not that conversant with the nicknames in the chat

[02:48] <Hippy> I'm D J Rout

[02:48] <Fred> _02_Hi DJ

[02:48] <Hippy> Howdy, Fred

[02:49] * Hippy afk momentarily for ablutions

[02:53] * Hippy returned

[02:55] <Hippy> So how do you know all this Hollywood stuff?

[02:58] <Fred> _02_I'm an animator

[02:58] <Fred> _02_been brushing up against these guys for 25 years now

[02:59] <Hippy> Ah. ..

[02:59] <Fred> _02_:)

[03:00] <Hippy> We appear to be the only people on the chat now, too.

[03:01] <Fred> _02_gah. how did it get to be midnight?

[03:01] <Hippy> Damn rotating Earth!

[03:02] <Hippy> It's just gone 5:00PM here. A lovely day is ending, not that I've been outside at all, due to the abovementioned hnagover

[03:02] * Hippy yawns, even though he's been up for only three and a half hours

[03:04] <Fred> _02_I think I must bail. A pleasure chatting with you DJ

[03:04] <Fred> _02_TO FRANK

[03:04] <Fred> _02_*clink*

[03:04] * Hippy clinks

[03:04] <Fred> _02_nite

[03:04] <Hippy> To Frank. . .

[03:04] <Hippy> Goodnight, Fred

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[03:04] <Hippy> Well, Sean, if you're there, I'm heading off, too. Goodnight

[03:05] <Hippy> Good night to everyone lurking, too :)

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[04:44] <bandersnatch> good bye Frank.